Do you think X-Box 360 graphics will equiv low settings on PC?

[kenclopz]

Do you think X-Box 360 graphics will be the equivalent of low settings on the PC?

[scubs]

i think regardless of settings PC will always look better, especially on higher resolution. i doubt there are many 1080 console games?

[ljbade]

The texture resolution is the same on all platforms.

But PC has higher screen resolution, PC screens look better than TVs, PC gets anisotropic filtering, antialiasing.

From 2 metres away I doubt you will notice a difference, but sit closer and it is obvious.

[Dingo]

i doubt there are many 1080 console games?

yeah there is hardly any console games that are 1080p, there's like 10 or so in total.

[schism84]

Also let's mention that PC should allow for far less jarring texture pop-in, or even none at all. Seeing the footage I've looked at from PS3 ... that's a big plus. Also as said above, AA and AF are HUGE PC visual differences.

[DemonKamikaze]

AA is worthless at 1080p, AF will improve graphical detail on landmass and objects parallel to the cameras viewing position.

The one thing that shocks me is there is no mention of what DX version Rage will run on, on PC. lack of news makes me think its gonna be DX9, as such the game might feel like a port from XBOX...

I really really hope, if the game is released with DX9, ID release a patch very quickly to take advantage of the DX10 or 11 advanced processing and effects.

I'm getting really tired of games developers porting to PC from console, cos its cheaper and quicker. I mean seriously who wants to play an FPS on console...

Just done a little research, looks like the wide old JC has programmed the new ID Tech 5 engine around openGL, This if true would be amazing news for PC gamers if he has. And the reason the game looks far better than it should on DX9.

[Nitronumber9]

AA is worthless at 1080p, AF will improve graphical detail on landmass and objects parallel to the cameras viewing position.

The one thing that shocks me is there is no mention of what DX version Rage will run on, on PC. lack of news makes me think its gonna be DX9, as such the game might feel like a port from XBOX...

I really really hope, if the game is released with DX9, ID release a patch very quickly to take advantage of the DX10 or 11 advanced processing and effects.

I'm getting really tired of games developers porting to PC from console, cos its cheaper and quicker. I mean seriously who wants to play an FPS on console...

Just done a little research, looks like the wide old JC has programmed the new ID Tech 5 engine around openGL, This if true would be amazing news for PC gamers if he has. And the reason the game looks far better than it should on DX9.
Its Open GL, All of ID's hits going right back to Quake have all been on Open GL for graphics, not direct 3D, and I highly doubt we will ever see a direct 3D game from ID since they like to port their hits to the little known OS of Linux (which lacks Direct 3D or Direct X support)

[ljbade]

DemonKamikaze:
On PC Rage will use OpenGL so D3D9 or 10/11 is irrelevant.

The game runs on Xbox 360 and PS3 which use GPUs that are ~D3D9 level feature set (but more efficient than D3D9). Since this is a cross platform engine (John Carmack designed it that way) I imagine it uses D3D9 level features on PC.

But however it requires a D3D10 level card due to the performance requirements.

OpenGL allows you to use features that are not in either D3D9 or D3D10 so can not be directly compared. Generally D3D9 level GPUs support OpenGL2, D3D10 support GL3, and D3D11 support GL4.

I believe id tech 5 can run on only GL2/D3D level (ie intel graphics) and they have tested it on those cards. But if you have a newer GL3 GPU the performance is improved due to advances made in GL3 vs GL2.

I should also point out that unlike D3D10/11, Gl3/4 is supported under Windows XP thus even XP users get all the graphical goodies and performance enhancements of D3D10/11 class hardware (such as tesselation). How much of GL3 they use is unknown.

But one thing I do know is that John Carmack got NVIDIA and ATI to implement an extra feature in OpenGL just for RAGE (any future GL game can use it too - otherwise games will need to wait for D3D12). It is a vsync mode that combines the best of vsync and tearing. When framerate < 60 it will tear (to keep game fluid with no stutter), when framerate >= 60, it will vysnc at 60 with no tearing. Console hardware has supported this for years but it has not been in D3D or GL before RAGE.

[viehrea_siili]

DemonKamikaze:
On PC Rage will use OpenGL so D3D9 or 10/11 is irrelevant.

The game runs on Xbox 360 and PS3 which use GPUs that are ~D3D9 level feature set (but more efficient than D3D9). Since this is a cross platform engine (John Carmack designed it that way) I imagine it uses D3D9 level features on PC.

But however it requires a D3D10 level card due to the performance requirements.

OpenGL allows you to use features that are not in either D3D9 or D3D10 so can not be directly compared. Generally D3D9 level GPUs support OpenGL2, D3D10 support GL3, and D3D11 support GL4.

I believe id tech 5 can run on only GL2/D3D level (ie intel graphics) and they have tested it on those cards. But if you have a newer GL3 GPU the performance is improved due to advances made in GL3 vs GL2.

I should also point out that unlike D3D10/11, Gl3/4 is supported under Windows XP thus even XP users get all the graphical goodies and performance enhancements of D3D10/11 class hardware (such as tesselation). How much of GL3 they use is unknown.

But one thing I do know is that John Carmack got NVIDIA and ATI to implement an extra feature in OpenGL just for RAGE (any future GL game can use it too - otherwise games will need to wait for D3D12). It is a vsync mode that combines the best of vsync and tearing. When framerate < 60 it will tear (to keep game fluid with no stutter), when framerate >= 60, it will vysnc at 60 with no tearing. Console hardware has supported this for years but it has not been in D3D or GL before RAGE.

That nice new vsync seems like very good improvement. Usually its just kills the framerate and makes the game stutter.

[Stewox]

Being on OpenGL makes all those problems with buggy DX go away!

[Runkelkrug]

There are no Xbox or PS3 games, which support 1080p. Every 1080 game is just scaled up. Most of the games don't even have "HD-Ready". (1280x720 px).
I played sacred and two worlds on pc and xbox. Those games just suck without PhysX and a virtual sync.
If you really want great grafix, the pc is the only console for you :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK7BkiNboRU
PhysX on/off
sorry for my bad english

[rlg5150]

There are no Xbox or PS3 games, which support 1080p. Every 1080 game is just scaled up. Most of the games don't even have "HD-Ready". (1280x720 px).
I played sacred and two worlds on pc and xbox. Those games just suck without PhysX and a virtual sync.
If you really want great grafix, the pc is the only console for you :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK7BkiNboRU
PhysX on/off
sorry for my bad english

This is incorrect. I don't know the whole list, but I know for sure GT5 Prologue, Tekken 5 DR, and Wipeout HD are native 1080p. Also, I'm pretty sure PS3 supports physx as well (although I'm not sure if any games use it or not).

[Savage1969]

This is incorrect. I don't know the whole list, but I know for sure GT5 Prologue, Tekken 5 DR, and Wipeout HD are native 1080p. Also, I'm pretty sure PS3 supports physx as well (although I'm not sure if any games use it or not).

Absolutely true. To add, all three main consoles support PhysX and their associated SDK's can be acquired via different prerequisites found here: http://developer.nvidia.com/physx-downloads. An example of console games that use the SDK (which has been available since ~2005) can be found here: http://physxinfo.com/

Cheers

[Dingo]

AA is worthless at 1080p

You are soo wrong.

[SmileyBarry]

I've tried the console version at Eurogamer Expo 2011, and it is horrifying up close. Textures are horribly compressed and are streamed at all times. I only move from one side of the room to the other and the game has to stream textures. Worse, I spin around and the game streams textures.

And even then, if I look up close it looks bad. Very bad. It's clear id tried to go for a macro approach on consoles rather than micro, since the textures DO appear good from afar and meshes are not low-poly on consoles.

[enemyofportal]

what can you expect from 5 years old console box hardware? don't. PC is always a winner.

[Runkelkrug]

This is incorrect. I don't know the whole list, but I know for sure GT5 Prologue, Tekken 5 DR, and Wipeout HD are native 1080p. Also, I'm pretty sure PS3 supports physx as well (although I'm not sure if any games use it or not).

That's new for me but it's cool to see that the PS3 still updates the console with better grafix. Just googled the PhysX thing and you're right. The PS3 and the Wii got now PhysX support. That's not bad (Xbox not). I never had a PS3 but the grafix seems to be a lot better than xbox. I don't know if MS have fixed the DRM, but for a long time a xbox formatted dual layer had less space than a single layer dvd for the Wii, so they had to pull down the grafix.
Rage will have 3 Dual-Layer-DVDs on Xbox (25,5gb)
I was wrong about the ps3, but the xbox is just oldschool :)

and sorry again for my bad english

[schism84]

For Rage the XBox with HDD install is the format of choice if you have a console. John Carmack said it himself. Pulling textures from Blu-ray on PS3 is just amazingly slow and they couldn't do any better than what they did with the tech, in part because Sony wouldn't allow them.

[Infinite XÆr0]

RAGE was made with the console hardware ceiling in mind, not the PC hardware ceiling, so all versions of the game will effectively look the same.

[SmileyBarry]

RAGE was made with the console hardware ceiling in mind, not the PC hardware ceiling, so all versions of the game will effectively look the same.

I seriously doubt that. idTech 5 is a cross-platform engine, not tied to any specific platform's codebase. The engine was optimised to fit console ceilings, just as it was optimised to fit PC ceilings. It will use every ounce of power on each platform.

If you're basing this on the system requirements, I have news for you: if you optimise your game well enough and write efficient, multi-core-optimised code you can pull off anything.

[Quint]

what can you expect from 5 years old console box hardware? don't. PC is always a winner.

Exactly.The problem is the game is way too advanced,and that is something consoles cannot handle.

But if reviewers put negatives that there are too many pop-ins, clearly they have no idea.How about they try to fix it themselves instead of criticizing?

[SmileyBarry]

Exactly.The problem is the game is way too advanced,and that is something consoles cannot handle.

But if reviewers put negatives that there are too many pop-ins, clearly they have no idea.How about they try to fix it themselves instead of criticizing?

Consoles have their advantages. One is that games always run without any layers on top of them. Unlike PCs, when you play a game, the only thing using the CPU is that game. (The Xbox/PS3 overlay doesn't use enough power to actually count it) In addition, consoles just work. You don't have to tweak with them or the settings, you don't have to close things, you don't have hitches or frequent slowdowns, because the hardware is standardised and developers can account for faults before release day. True, many PC games are indeed fault-free and run beautifully, but that's only because of patching and the immense test labs NVIDIA and ATI/AMD give to developers.

As much as I love PC gaming and I am a PC gamer primarily and have been for plenty of years (I barely own any console games), I have to say that consoles still have a place these days and they will always have a place. And the hardware in PS3/360 is sufficient for such games and just fine -- the problem is they only stocked 256MB of RAM, and that's why the game looks beautiful from afar but bad up close on 360. It's why meshes and details are still great on consoles while textures are pixely and rough up close.

[schism84]

Consoles do have their advantages but we're still approaching the reasonable end of this generation of console hardware. I'm not at all against consoles or anything, but the difference now between even a cheap PC and a console is starting to be too much.

[mmxgolabi]

i think regardless of settings PC will always look better, especially on higher resolution. i doubt there are many 1080 console games?

Actually there quit a lot of them and some console games have very impressive graphics (uncharted series, gears of war series, red dead redemption, kill zone, god of war and ....) . both 360 and ps3 are capable of delivering this game with good graphics and trust me it will look better than low or or medium setting on pc. but if a pc can handle the game on highest setting, it will look substantially better than consoles.

[argiveajax]

AA is worthless at 1080p, AF will improve graphical detail on landmass and objects parallel to the cameras viewing position.

The one thing that shocks me is there is no mention of what DX version Rage will run on, on PC. lack of news makes me think its gonna be DX9, as such the game might feel like a port from XBOX...

I really really hope, if the game is released with DX9, ID release a patch very quickly to take advantage of the DX10 or 11 advanced processing and effects.

I'm getting really tired of games developers porting to PC from console, cos its cheaper and quicker. I mean seriously who wants to play an FPS on console...

Just done a little research, looks like the wide old JC has programmed the new ID Tech 5 engine around openGL, This if true would be amazing news for PC gamers if he has. And the reason the game looks far better than it should on DX9.

AA is worthless at 1080p? Why do people talk out of their ♥♥♥ all the time. This statement is so blatantly wrong. Go render a scene in Maya at full 1080 with no AA and if you don't notice the ugly edges then you need glasses.

[schism84]

This statement is so blatantly wrong. Go render a scene in Maya at full 1080 with no AA and if you don't notice the ugly edges then you need glasses.

But you don't understand, it's 1080p man. That's FULL HD and that's not just a marketing name. It's bleeding edge display from the last gen, how can it need AA? *trollface*

[cyborg34573]

But you don't understand, it's 1080p man. That's FULL HD and that's not just a marketing name. It's bleeding edge display from the last gen, how can it need AA? *trollface*

Lol
But yeah 1080p still needs AA, i stil see alot of jaggs in that res.

[ljbade]

AA is a must for animated graphics as jaggies are very noticeable when moving.