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Kullimarsu
10-15-2011, 04:17 AM
I mean, I'm on the fourth planet right now. I had to check youtube solution for the last task on planet three, because the info on how those switches or whatever the game gave me was second to nothing. Anyway, first task on fourth planet was easy pie, but as soon as I must do two different molechyles with multiple bonds in them, I'm stuck with no clue whatsoever how to even begin solving the problem.

So, after trying and quitting and trying again, starting anew, spending a couple of hours on the same stage, getting frustrated when you don't make any progress, how do you go from there?

I've thought about making better solutions on earlier levels, but I think I've gotten as far as I can on those, too. And since they're not dealing with the same thing, it's useless anyway.

For the record, I couldn't for the life of me solve the optional level on the third planet. When I try to solve it, I always run into the reactor quota limit, if I could have four reactors it would run just fine, but I'm limited to three. Upon glancing at a youtube vid of it, the guy had solved it with just one! So guess I need some serious learning here.

The one I'm stuck on is Random Oxides. I can do the O=Ti=O one, but I run out of bonding places for making the O=Zi one.

Bashy McFetus
10-15-2011, 04:54 AM
Hint: you always have to add one oxygen to your metal, no matter what it is. So always do that, then figure out how to deal with titanium.

Oh and only having three reactors available on the challenge is entirely what makes it a challenge. You'll notice that the arrangement of hydrogens in ammonia is very similar to methane. Use that to your advantage.

Kullimarsu
10-15-2011, 05:13 AM
This is from the challenge level. Since I get triple bonded Ne from one place, I put up a disassemble reactor that divides them and puts them out in one tube, using one waldo only. The plan was, getting the big molechyle from the other output, that I drive them both into one standard reactor and finish the molechyles there.

As seen on the screenshot, I can get the other molechyle just fine, but how do I do the triple bond to neon for the other? Is it even possible with my solution so far?

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198037939027/screenshot/596951377856142614?tab=public

Kullimarsu
10-15-2011, 05:26 AM
Hint: you always have to add one oxygen to your metal, no matter what it is. So always do that, then figure out how to deal with titanium.

Oh and only having three reactors available on the challenge is entirely what makes it a challenge. You'll notice that the arrangement of hydrogens in ammonia is very similar to methane. Use that to your advantage.

Ha, thanks for the hint, I solved it immediately! :)

PieceOfMind
10-15-2011, 07:45 AM
This (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2162036) thread had some beginner tips. I've played the game for more than a month and still learned something new there.

Also, I know some of the optional levels are tied to achievements and so are tempting, but I recommend leaving them until you've progressed further through the campaign. Believe me, by the time you're making serious progress toward the end of the game you'll find those optional challenges more manageable.

Kullimarsu
10-16-2011, 07:32 AM
I actually managed to solve the optional one on planet three today, with three reactors. Then, after some tweaking, I was able to solve it with only two reactors, keeping both cycles AND symbols lower than I managed with three reactors :) I feel so satisfied with myself :)

Here's the solution, btw:

http://spacechem.net/solution/challenge-in-place-swap/27180

CtrlAltDestroy
10-16-2011, 08:59 AM
Sometimes your brain just isn't in the mood for SpaceChem puzzles, or doesn't have the proper kind of energy for them, and they'll start to feel impossible. Other times, you're going through everyday life and you're thinking about the puzzle in the back of your head without realizing it.

This game is weird like that. Sometimes you can spend 4 hours just struggling over a solution, give up, go do chores or run errands, and suddenly the solution will pop into your mind while you're standing in the checkout lane. So my advice is not to rush your progress through the game; don't try to get the game "over with" as fast as possible. You're not competing with anyone; it's a personal journey more than anything.

Kullimarsu
10-17-2011, 12:24 PM
Now I'm stuck at No thanks necessary. Or, well, I kind of solved it already, but "cheating" with long enough pipes so they didn't get clogged, and I want to solve it "right", because the level after that builds solely on using the recycle thingies, and I didn't figure out how to sort the 75% Oxygen 25% Neon thingie to be able to recycle the spare Oxygen. I've spent well over 4 hours building and rebuilding the first reactor and still - nothing. Of course I can separate them from each other and put them to separate inputs in other reactors, which I did in my solution, but again, I can't figure out how to get rid of the excessive amounts of oxygen.

Of course I could watch some solution on solutionnet but I'd rather get pointed in the right direction and find out for myself than get a finished solution.

Bashy McFetus
10-17-2011, 02:34 PM
Your air input happens to have the same average composition of the nitrate group in each of your outputs. There's no reason to throw anything from there away. If you do that, you don't need the oxygen from the salt water.

PieceOfMind
10-17-2011, 05:46 PM
Now I'm stuck at No thanks necessary. Or, well, I kind of solved it already, but "cheating" with long enough pipes so they didn't get clogged, and I want to solve it "right", because the level after that builds solely on using the recycle thingies, and I didn't figure out how to sort the 75% Oxygen 25% Neon thingie to be able to recycle the spare Oxygen. I've spent well over 4 hours building and rebuilding the first reactor and still - nothing. Of course I can separate them from each other and put them to separate inputs in other reactors, which I did in my solution, but again, I can't figure out how to get rid of the excessive amounts of oxygen.

Of course I could watch some solution on solutionnet but I'd rather get pointed in the right direction and find out for myself than get a finished solution.

75% O2 and 25% N2 means a 3:1 ratio of oxygen to nitrogen. Check what ratio of these elements you need in your end products.

My only suggestion without giving too much away would be to have a reactor that separates the nitrogen and oxygen into two separate outputs, ideally making splitting them to individual atoms too. If you put in a few extra syncs in that reactor you can make sure molecules won't collide when output pipes get clogged up. Usually putting a sync after each output command and before each 'in' command is more than enough.
Also, making pipes longer to avoid getting them clogged is definitely not cheating in any sense of the word. Because of the random nature of the inputs, you might get 10 (or more) of one molecule type in a row and having a bit of a buffer in your pipes is more or less essential.

Finally, I'd say start experimenting more with syncs. There's a lot of things you can do with them. At the point you're at in the game, they are really useful tools.

10-18-2011, 10:28 AM
I've spent well over 4 hours building and rebuilding the first reactor and still - nothing.

For someone who already solved it, you got quite some determination to do it right.

If you want no buffer pipes at all, which is what I understand you want to achieve. You'll have to throw away any molecule you're not expecting. That way even a thousand of the same molecules in a row will be handled correctly.

Here are some hints. If you want a screenshot, just ask.
Two waldo's. One tasked to get 1x N2 to the output and recycle anything else. The other 3x O2.
Use 8 syncs to make sure one waldo runs 3x while the other waits.

Kullimarsu
10-19-2011, 07:36 AM
Oh lol. I mixed up the names of the levels.. the one I beat already was the one before No thanks necessary, No ordinary headache, and it's the one I'm trying to do right, because I think I need to know how to use the recycle thingie right, so I can use it in No thanks necessary. As for No thanks necessary, I have no idea how to even start it, it seems so ridiculously complicated my brain can't even start grasping it.

Edit: Here's the solution I have done so far.. it just seems overly complicated to me. And the pipe almost gets clogged anyway, even though it fills most of the free space on the map :D

Kullimarsu
10-19-2011, 10:41 AM
Okay, I got sick of the No ordinary headache and looked up a solution, since I knew people were getting it done with only one reactor even. Even with the youtube vid I had to strain my brain to get it - the waldo doesn't need to pass over the sensor, and doesn't need to be carrying a atom/molecule to be able to use the optional path.

*Sigh* I wish the tutorials were a little more in-depth with things like these. If only I had known...

10-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Oh lol

LMAO

... the waldo doesn't need to pass over the sensor ...
I wish the tutorials were a little more in-depth with things like these.

Please, look at the Second image in the Introduction to Sensing Training page. Granted, it isn't a full page of text (which no-one would read anyway). But if you look at the image and the explainatory text it's quite explicit "when the atom over the sensor matches...".

Anyway, good luck with the next challenge.

PieceOfMind
10-19-2011, 04:37 PM
I agree the tutorials are a bit cryptic. There's been several points during my time playing SpaceChem where I thought "Oh, you can do that?!"

Probably the biggest examples were when I learned the grey bonders have a hidden priority (and bonder priority wasn't just based on their position) and also when I realised it's ok for a waldo to run into a wall but only if it's either not carrying anything or carrying something that doesn't actually hit the wall, and any command it sits on at the wall is continuously repeated.

EDIT
Oh, and another one that was learned very early on is that red waldos always do their commands before blue commands on each cycle. So for instance a red waldo could break a (single) bond while a blue waldo does an output command, or a red waldo could do an 'input' command while a blue waldo picks up the inputted molecule. Both these would not work if blue and red were swapped.

Mobious918
10-20-2011, 10:34 AM
Oh, and another one that was learned very early on is that red waldos always do their commands before blue commands on each cycle. So for instance a red waldo could break a (single) bond while a blue waldo does an output command, or a red waldo could do an 'input' command while a blue waldo picks up the inputted molecule. Both these would not work if blue and red were swapped.
This is disgustingly helpful if you're trying to peel hydrogen atoms off of a molecule like methane for example. Set the red waldo running into the wall with a "bond (-)" command and have the blue waldo run the molecule into bonders in the output reactor and have it hit a "output (reactor)" command at each slot and you'll essentially have an auto-trimmer that will stop whenever the output gets full rather than overfilling and causing a crash. Super effective in certain situations :P

PieceOfMind
10-20-2011, 07:10 PM
This is disgustingly helpful if you're trying to peel hydrogen atoms off of a molecule like methane for example. Set the red waldo running into the wall with a "bond (-)" command and have the blue waldo run the molecule into bonders in the output reactor and have it hit a "output (reactor)" command at each slot and you'll essentially have an auto-trimmer that will stop whenever the output gets full rather than overfilling and causing a crash. Super effective in certain situations :PYou're right that tends to be the safer option when output pipes getting clogged is a real possibility. When unintended breaking of the molecule by bonders is a concern and output pipes getting clogged isn't, it's safer to go with multiple red bond- commands with blue stuck on an output command.

You're spot on that it's super effective though. I've been going through the first planets in the campaign making solutions over from scratch in a new profile and I'm finding that very often the solutions I come up with as being the 'nicest' to me use a parked waldo. The parked waldo is a game changer.

Here's my favourite example of "trimming" in action.
Warning: Possible spoiler. It's a level on ResearchNet
Decomposition of Ethanolamine (video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?hd=1&v=sWa1x9HmsyE) ... (detailed solution) (http://spacechem.net/solution/decomposition-of-Ethanolamine/24682)