Activation limits? Really?

[Aemony]

The used serial number has already been activated 1 times on this PC.
The used serial number has already been activated on 1 different PCs.

The used serial number can be activated 10 times in total on this PC.
The used serial number can be activated on 5 different PCs in total.

Seriously?

I can understand an activation limit of five different PCs, but why the heck am I prohibited from reinstalling the game more than 10 times on this one computer?

In other words; I'm screwed and forced to contact them within a couple of months due to my regular reinstallation of the operating system.

You know, there's few things in regard to DRM that I can't take. One like activation limits on a single computer is one...

What's next, play limits on consoles? You can only start a game ten times on the same console before the game locks you out?

Seriously, I'm disappointed.

[TriggRNC]

Seriously?

I can understand an activation limit of five different PCs, but why the heck am I prohibited from reinstalling the game more than 10 times on this one computer?

In other words; I'm screwed and forced to contact them within a couple of months due to my regular reinstallation of the operating system.

You know, there's few things in regard to DRM that I can't take. One like activation limits on a single computer is one...

What's next, play limits on consoles? You can only start a game ten times on the same console before the game locks you out?

Seriously, I'm disappointed.
So you reformat 10 times every couple of months ? Do you find you wash your hands 100 times a day too ? Or cant take a crap unless at home ?

While this kind of DRM isn't exactly fair there are workarounds. If you have it on steam you dont need to activate when you reformat, When reformatting I keep my old windows installation that can be found in the windows.old folder, Transfer my Steam games/documents/files to the new windows and voila, No activation needed. Takes an exra 5 minutes to do unless you're one of these impatient youth of today and their need to whine about everything.

[MIK3K]

Arkham Asylum had a "License revoking tool" in the tools section of your games list. Check if Arkham City has a similar tool and then you can install/uninstall to your hearts' content.

[#DEADC0DE]

Run BatmanAC.exe with option /revoke before you format. Voilá. Problem solved.

[Headcrab_Zer0]

Where did you find this info?

[Aemony]

-snip-

You should get that attitude of yours looked at.

Also, remember that having a windows.old folder present after Windows has been installed is a typical sign that you didn't reformat the partition in the progress. Had you done so you wouldn't have that folder on the partition. None the less, that's hardly a worry for me as I obviously don't configure my operating system to use the default locations when I regularly reinstalls and reformats the OS.

I somewhat doubts that I don't need to activate the game again, though. The activation files are hardly stored in the folder along with the rest of the game, these are most likely stored in AppData or some other obscure folder in C:, for the sole purpose of making it harder to track them down and transfer them.

Where did you find this info?

It was written within the activation window when I first activated the game.

Run BatmanAC.exe with option /revoke before you format. Voilá. Problem solved.

Thanks, though that itself was hardly the problem.

----

I must admit, this response hardly was what I had expected. I can understand installation limits on different computers, since publishers and developers needs some form of false sense of security releasing their games on the PC market. But really? Installation limits on a single computer as well? And nobody seems to react over it? Good god, apathy is a ♥♥♥♥♥, eh?

What the hell happens when a user's operating system suddenly goes into a crash loop, or something, and a clean reinstallation is done to ensure optimal working state? Clearly one of those 10 activation limits on that computer is then lost. Should the user really be required to remember every single activated product on his computer for the sake of a false sense of security among the developers/publishers?

As I said before, limitations on the number of computers the game can be installed on is understandable. However limitations on the number of times the game can be activated on a single computer isn't.

[Wardiaper]

I agree with you totally - I have way too many games to remember what needs a license to be revoked - but sadly that is the case here. At least being able to revoke the license puts off having to email for more activations if you have a run of bad luck with your OS and hardware failures.

It could be worse - I bought Two Worlds II from the publisher website and lost my download through a hard drive failure and discovered I can no longer download the install files. Guess I should have copied it to another hard drive. Oh well, I'll buy it for $5 eventually on steam in another year.

[casshern09]

I really couldn't care less about it. it doesn't affect me in any way at all. I don't think I own a game that I have reinstalled 10 times. I have a vey large HDD so there is no point.
I personally don't understand why all the moaning. You just have to revoke one of the activations then you lose nothing. Takes like 2 mins.
But that's just me.

[gashadokuro]

What the hell happens when a user's operating system suddenly goes into a crash loop, or something, and a clean reinstallation is done to ensure optimal working state? Clearly one of those 10 activation limits on that computer is then lost. Should the user really be required to remember every single activated product on his computer for the sake of a false sense of security among the developers/publishers?

As I said before, limitations on the number of computers the game can be installed on is understandable. However limitations on the number of times the game can be activated on a single computer isn't.

Thing is, if someone's pc is screwing up enough where they'd have to format and reinstall the os several times within a small time frame, then making sure the pc is up and running before reinstalling the games everytime would probably be a good idea.

[StingingVelvet]

Activation limits are indeed insanity. Still, not going to stop me from playing this awesome game. By the time I use 10 computers the DRM will either be patched out or made irrelevant.

[ronkmonster]

If you have it on steam you dont need to activate when you reformat, When reformatting I keep my old windows installation that can be found in the windows.old folder, Transfer my Steam games/documents/files to the new windows and voila, No activation needed. Takes an exra 5 minutes to do unless you're one of these impatient youth of today and their need to whine about everything.

Yes you do. I had to reactivate the game after a windows reinstall this evening. And I restored my user profile from a backup this morning.

[mbordelon2]

Actually...if you reformat your PC and reinstall the OS...the game will treat it as a "different" PC. So that would take up one of your 5 activations on "different" machines.

[Psycho101]

Activation limits do indeed suck.

You'd have thought that if they can go to the trouble of using Steamworks for the Steam version (creating achievements, cloud support[?] etc) then they could be confident that activation limits would not be needed.

Not an ideal solution, but have you considered using an imaging program rather than formatting when you want a "fresh" OS install? Create several images, a plain install & drivers, an OS & Programs and an OS, Programs and games if you need to etc. When taking the full system image, make sure that AC is activated. When you restore that "fresh" non bogged down image your system will (for all intents and purposes) be in exactly the same state as when the game was first activated, thus negating the need for activation again.

I also like to clear out the clutter of an aging OS install every now and again (I restore a fresh image once every 3-4 months), and this works well for me. It also has the advantage of giving you a system that's virtually ready to go, bar some minor driver updates. After you update the drivers and any programs that need an update/service pack, create an image again, then use that for next time.

[Microshocky]

I guess pirates have this same inconve...oh wait they don't.

[fac7orx]

Wow, I am shocked to find some people actually support this nonsense. The reason we have this install activation BS is because some people are just fine taking it where the sun don't shine from the developer/ publisher. This kind of thing only hurts the legitimate consumer. I now have to keep a check list of every game that I have installed before reformatting or shifting to a new PC. I was starting to think that they realized this activation limit ordeal was getting in the way, but what do ya know this game has a surprise in store for all of use. Thanks Rocksteady/ Warner Bros you really know how to surprise your customers...

What's on my mind if I get a virus, a new hdd, a new PC, etc? Let's see back up important files, oh and then go through each game to make sure it's deauthorized because god forbid I reformat with out getting my key back. Don't give me this "oh it's 5 keys you will be fine" crap. It all adds up in the end, and it makes most of us paranoid when dealing with computer issues and installing games. Yet, those who choose the "other option" can install it as many times as they want and not worry about this garbage.

Man, these guys need to take a hint from Gabe Newell. DRM sucks and it deters legitimate consumers from the product...

@TriggRNC if your fine with the DRM, just go play the game then and let those who are worried about it get the word out as removing DRM will have no affect on you, but if it stays, people like me who hate it will be upset and feel ripped off. Simply put, there is no need to play damage control for those that want to screw us over...

Actually...if you reformat your PC and reinstall the OS...the game will treat it as a "different" PC. So that would take up one of your 5 activations on "different" machines.

Exactly, and some people may not think it is a big issue until the time comes. You may be surprised with how it's easy to forget to deauthorize the game before uninstalling or reformating. You may say "Hey, it's easy to get my key back", well yeah, but it's also easy to lose it too buddy.

I guess pirates have this same inconve...oh wait they don't.

Yep, the way this works out is messed up for those who actually buy the game. And what happens? The developers/ publishers complain about lack of sales and act like they did nothing wrong to deter people away from their own product on the platform...

Seriously?

I can understand an activation limit of five different PCs, but why the heck am I prohibited from reinstalling the game more than 10 times on this one computer?

In other words; I'm screwed and forced to contact them within a couple of months due to my regular reinstallation of the operating system.

You know, there's few things in regard to DRM that I can't take. One like activation limits on a single computer is one...

What's next, play limits on consoles? You can only start a game ten times on the same console before the game locks you out?

Seriously, I'm disappointed.

You shouldn't have to "understand" either portion of this DRM crap. It sucks on both fronts and it should be removed period.

I will say that I am glad I managed to get the game for $25 on sale, but honestly why make even spending half the amount on the game questionable with all of the nonsense thrown into the mix?

[Biasmania]

After being a huge fan of the first game, I could not wait to get my mitts on this one. Until I saw the activation limits. How would 360 owners feel if their game erased itself after 25 plays? I know I am being a little extreme there. But when I have activation limits. I feel like I don't actually own my game, I am renting it. I don't care if it is 3, 5, or 100... It should not be there.

I have a question and I know it is kind of a grey area. Has anyone (class action lawsuit wise) attempted to take this kind of crap on? I mean even if it was a loss, the fear of going to court, and losing would make a company not put this stuff on there. I mean heck people sue over spilling coffee in their lap.

I just guess I am at a loss here. This does not stop the thieves from still getting this game. But it cost them a sale, and me a chance to play what is obviously a wonderful game.

[Aemony]

It seems that it was far worse than what I initially thought. Those 10 activation limits is on a single OS installation. You are, in other words, limited to only installing the game 10 times on a single OS installation.

If you reformat and reinstalls the computer it counts as a new computer, and you loses one more of the 5 "different PCs" limit...

Yeah... It's things like this that forces legitimate customers to resort to questionable measures in order to play the games they've legally bought.

[Microshocky]

After being a huge fan of the first game, I could not wait to get my mitts on this one. Until I saw the activation limits. How would 360 owners feel if their game erased itself after 25 plays? I know I am being a little extreme there. But when I have activation limits. I feel like I don't actually own my game, I am renting it. I don't care if it is 3, 5, or 100... It should not be there.

I have a question and I know it is kind of a grey area. Has anyone (class action lawsuit wise) attempted to take this kind of crap on? I mean even if it was a loss, the fear of going to court, and losing would make a company not put this stuff on there. I mean heck people sue over spilling coffee in their lap.

I just guess I am at a loss here. This does not stop the thieves from still getting this game. But it cost them a sale, and me a chance to play what is obviously a wonderful game.

Are you talking about the McDonalds hot coffee case? Cause that was a legitimate case of McD's having scalding/third degree burn HOT coffee.

[fac7orx]

It seems that it was far worse than what I initially thought. Those 10 activation limits is on a single OS installation. You are, in other words, limited to only installing the game 10 times on a single OS installation.

If you reformat and reinstalls the computer it counts as a new computer, and you loses one more of the 5 "different PCs" limit...

Yeah... It's things like this that forces legitimate customers to resort to questionable measures in order to play the games they've legally bought.

I think EA was sued over the DRM in Spore:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6198136.html

It suffered from the same activation limitation DRM in this game, but it was limited to only 3 copies. So, yeah, companies have been sued over this sort of thing in the past.

Either way, I just want them to remove this BS DRM as it never worked in preventing piracy in the past and it doesn't work now. It just creates unneeded issues for the legitimate customer.

[AlHudson1]

I guess pirates have this same inconve...oh wait they don't.

Hahahaha... exactly +1 rep.

[ParadoxSalem]

Are you talking about the McDonalds hot coffee case? Cause that was a legitimate case of McD's having scalding/third degree burn HOT coffee.

On February 27, 1992, Stella Liebeck, a 79-year-old woman from Albuquerque, New Mexico, ordered a 49-cent cup of coffee from the drive-through window of a local McDonald's restaurant located at 5001 Gibson Boulevard S.E. Liebeck was in the passenger's seat of her grandsons Ford Probe, and her grandson Chris parked the car so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her coffee. Liebeck placed the coffee cup between her knees and pulled the far side of the lid toward her to remove it. In the process, she spilled the entire cup of coffee on her lap.[10] Liebeck was wearing cotton sweatpants; they absorbed the coffee and held it against her skin, scalding her thighs, buttocks, and groin.[11] Liebeck was taken to the hospital, where it was determined that she had suffered third-degree burns on six percent of her skin and lesser burns over sixteen percent.[12] She remained in the hospital for eight days while she underwent skin grafting. During this period, Liebeck lost 20 pounds (9 kg, nearly 20% of her body weight), reducing her down to 83 pounds (38 kg).[13] Two years of medical treatment followed.

During the case, Liebeck's attorneys discovered that McDonald's required franchisees to serve coffee at 180–190 °F (82–88 °C). At that temperature, the coffee would cause a third-degree burn in two to seven seconds.


Ridiculous at first glance, valid upon closer inspection.

[Whiteclaw]

I agree. It is humiliating to be subject to this kind of treatment as gamers. I can't even start playing the game until I set up a Windows Live profile, this is idiotic, I hate devs for doing this, WHY do I need a freaking seperate account to play a game? WHY? And why the ♥♥♥♥ can I not install a game as many times as I want once the game is activated? Go check what Blizard does, you register your game, and it's yours until the end of time (Blizzard time) This is just wrong on so many levels. 10 freaking times on a single computer? Thanks a lot.

[ParadoxSalem]

I agree. It is humiliating to be subject to this kind of treatment as gamers. I can't even start playing the game until I set up a Windows Live profile, this is idiotic, I hate devs for doing this, WHY do I need a freaking seperate account to play a game? WHY? And why the ♥♥♥♥ can I not install a game as many times as I want once the game is activated? Go check what Blizard does, you register your game, and it's yours until the end of time (Blizzard time) This is just wrong on so many levels. 10 freaking times on a single computer? Thanks a lot.

Interesting you should mention Blizzard. My original Starcraft CD was unreadable, but I still had the key. I registered it on Blizzard's Battle.net. They said "whoops, we don't support that anymore. Here, have Starcraft WITH BROOD WARS instead."

I have nothing but nice things to say about Blizzard, despite their "always online" policy.

[Whiteclaw]

Interesting you should mention Blizzard. My original Starcraft CD was unreadable, but I still had the key. I registered it on Blizzard's Battle.net. They said "whoops, we don't support that anymore. Here, have Starcraft WITH BROOD WARS instead."

I have nothing but nice things to say about Blizzard, despite their "always online" policy.

Well....yes you still need an account to play Blizzard games etc but at least you can install it as much as you can, and you don't need a seperate program or account to run the game. This Games for Windows thing pisses me off so much.

[MGW]

I have to agree on that the 10 install activation limit is just horrid. I can live with the 5 machine activation limit that securom often have (if i can revoke them) but this is to much.
Not all users know what DRM is or even how to revoke it and the only time they notise it is when they reach the limit and we more advanced PC users have to help them on forums or as a friend etc.
It's not helping that u sneek with it as well and as a customer you have to search for what kind of DRM the game has and how it intrusive it is and if u have to revoke it.
Do the right thing and remove the 10 install limit and care for you customes for once :mad: remember bioshock 2? Many many many userse did not by this because the 15 install limit.

[ENG]

Guys, Batman Crack is out already and will bypass that craps. DRM had broken every fair trading laws and yet Micro$oft got away with it. The only reason why they had DRM isn't because of piracy per see, it really about internet cafe and reformat Micro$oft Windows which MICRO$OFT HATES.

Re-Format a new windows is the cleanest way and they (Micro$oft) cannot do F-ALL about it and yet EXTORTION CHARGES us all. They tried to DRM Windows but then got lashback by customers from Window XP. I still got my Windows XP used only 3 times before Micro$oft put a stop to it. I do not care and still got the windows XP as a proof of Micro$oft extortion and disgust.

Democratic?, believe me it all balls and America is going down already. May as well call it a DEMO?.

[ParadoxSalem]

Guys, Batman Crack is out already and will bypass that craps. DRM had broken every fair trading laws and yet Micro$oft got away with it. The only reason why they had DRM isn't because of piracy per see, it really about internet cafe and reformat Micro$oft Windows which MICRO$OFT HATES.

Re-Format a new windows is the cleanest way and they (Micro$oft) cannot do F-ALL about it and yet EXTORTION CHARGES us all. They tried to DRM Windows but then got lashback by customers from Window XP. I still got my Windows XP used only 3 times before Micro$oft put a stop to it. I do not care and still got the windows XP as a proof of Micro$oft extortion and disgust.

Democratic?, believe me it all balls and America is going down already. May as well call it a DEMO?.

lolwat

A fair trade law was a statute that permitted manufacturers the right to specify the minimum retail price of a commodity, a practice known as "price maintenance". They first appeared in 1931 during the Great Depression in the state of California. They were ostensibly intended to protect small businesses to some degree from the competitions of the very large chain stores during a time when small businesses were suffering. Many people objected to this on the grounds that if the manufacturers could set the price, consumers would have to pay more even at large discount stores. The complexity of the market also made the enforcement of these laws almost impractical. As the chain stores became more popular, and bargain prices more common, there was a widespread repeal of the laws in many jurisdictions. In 1975, the laws were repealed completely.

What are you even talking about? DRM isn't relevant at all to Fair Trade laws, and then you devolve into something about Internet Cafes and reformatting. Context, please.

[Biasmania]

I just wonder why a group of PC Gamers have not sued over these activation limits... Like I said before even if they lost, the fear that they would be taken to court would be enough for companies to stop doing this. I have no idea why this keeps happening. All it does is LOSE sales! I am not buying this game over this. Thats 50 bucks flushed down the toilet! And I am sure there is someone else on here that hasn't bought it over this garbage either.

Oh and to the hot coffee remark above that was the second suit. There was another one where a woman supposedly burnt herself and could not perform her "womanly duties" with her husband. (HER WORDS I SWEAR NOT MINE.) That is the one I am talking about.

[ParadoxSalem]

I just wonder why a group of PC Gamers have not sued over these activation limits... Like I said before even if they lost, the fear that they would be taken to court would be enough for companies to stop doing this. I have no idea why this keeps happening. All it does is LOSE sales! I am not buying this game over this. Thats 50 bucks flushed down the toilet! And I am sure there is someone else on here that hasn't bought it over this garbage either.

Oh and to the hot coffee remark above that was the second suit. There was another one where a woman supposedly burnt herself and could not perform her "womanly duties" with her husband. (HER WORDS I SWEAR NOT MINE.) That is the one I am talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tevkM-vPqLY

When I google "hot coffee" and "womanly duties" this is the only thing I find. That's an interesting case you mention, though, I'd like to read more about it. Sauce?

Also, if it were taken to court, and the plaintiffs lost, that would only strengthen the position of the companies using activation limits, because the defense in any following case could then point to the original case as a set precedent.

[#DEADC0DE]

I feel like I don't actually own my game, I am renting it. I don't care if it is 3, 5, or 100... It should not be there.

Well, actually, you don't. The only thing you own is a license permitting you to play the game.

[FreeManG]

Seriously?

I can understand an activation limit of five different PCs, but why the heck am I prohibited from reinstalling the game more than 10 times on this one computer?

In other words; I'm screwed and forced to contact them within a couple of months due to my regular reinstallation of the operating system.

You know, there's few things in regard to DRM that I can't take. One like activation limits on a single computer is one...

What's next, play limits on consoles? You can only start a game ten times on the same console before the game locks you out?

Seriously, I'm disappointed.

I too think activation limits are a disservice to paying customers that ignores the realities of computer usage- hardware failure, upgrading.

I don't see any official confirmation of what drm is present here but wonder if it differs with type of acquisition. I chose to buy the non-Steam retail disk version and saw no mention of activation limits during the installation. I naively hope this is not present on retail...

I see that Arkham Asylum has a revoke tool on the securom site: https://support.securom.com/pop_batmanaa.html

ATM, this is not present for AC: https://support.securom.com/pop_batmanac.html

Hopefully it will be made available.

[ParadoxSalem]

I don't see any official confirmation of what drm is present here but wonder if it differs with type of acquisition. I chose to buy the non-Steam retail disk version and saw no mention of activation limits during the installation. I naively hope this is not present on retail...

There's Securom and GFWL on all copies of Arkham City, and Steamworks on the the Steam/Nvidia giveaway copies.

[ENG]

lolwat... What are you even talking about? DRM isn't relevant at all to Fair Trade laws,..

Keep your eyes peeled, snipped from one of Fair Trading Act 1973:

Banning abusive behaviour by a firm dominating a market, or anti-competitive practices that tend to lead to such a dominant position. Practices controlled in this way may include predatory pricing, tying, price gouging, >> REFUSAL to deal << and many others.

By the way, which MooHaMad nursery school did you went in pakistani?.

[ParadoxSalem]

Keep your eyes peeled, snipped from one of Fair Trading Act 1973:

Banning abusive behaviour by a firm dominating a market, or anti-competitive practices that tend to lead to such a dominant position. Practices controlled in this way may include predatory pricing, tying, price gouging, >> REFUSAL to deal << and many others.

By the way, which MooHaMad nursery school did you went in pakistani?.

Borderline abusive, yes, but putting DRM in a game is hardly anti-competitive towards other game developers. I'm sure CDProjekt feels threatened by Ubisoft's DRM.

And that's "Salem" as in the brand of cigarettes, the talking cat, or several cities in states throughout the US. Not Sahlim or any particular Muslim spelling. I went to primary school in Leeds, UK, then high school in the US. Irish, not Muslim. Although I dated a Muslim girl once. Her father didn't approve.

[Headcrab_Zer0]

the talking cat
God that makes me feel old. I remember Salem the talking cat from Sabrina the Teenage Witch.

[ParadoxSalem]

God that makes me feel old. I remember Salem the talking cat from Sabrina the Teenage Witch.

w0rd. Highest sarcasm rating in all of TGIF-land.

[Prototype]

Pretty sure the activation system for the original game had a system where if an activation wasn't used for something like 2-3 months then it was revoked, effectively giving you infinite activations?

So if you installed onto a machine which promptly died on you, the machine would never been seen by the activation server again and 2/3 months later you got an activation back.

Maybe BM:AC uses a similar system?

Don't get me wrong, I loathe DRM infestations but these sort of policies atleast most "normal" people (those who dont reinstall windows and/or or rebuild their PCs regular) a chance never to trip over DRM turds.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Run BatmanAC.exe with option /revoke before you format. Voilá. Problem solved.

not exactly first thing on my mind when I'm reimaging due to a virus or what have you. limitations of installs on a single PC is ridiculous and most companies end up patching it out before anyone would ever hit the limit, its purely insulting to PAYING customers. seeing as to how its easier to just pirate it than spending an hour on the phone trying to call EA's customer service...

[bryonhowley]

Seriously?In other words; I'm screwed and forced to contact them within a couple of months due to my regular reinstallation of the operating system.

If you really reinstall that often you have more problems than activation limits! There is no reason to reinstall any OS that often ever. My system runs every bit as good now as it did when I installed Windows 7 rtm. The best thing you could do would be to sell you PC and get a console.

[ParadoxSalem]

If you really reinstall that often you have more problems than activation limits! There is no reason to reinstall any OS that often ever. My system runs every bit as good now as it did when I installed Windows 7 rtm. The best thing you could do would be to sell you PC and get a console.

Nowadays, no. Back when Windows ME was out, I reinstalled Windows about once a month just for stability's sake.

I guess some habits die hard. I've had Windows 7 on this laptop since I bought it, and haven't had a problem with it.

[Aemony]

If you really reinstall that often you have more problems than activation limits! There is no reason to reinstall any OS that often ever. My system runs every bit as good now as it did when I installed Windows 7 rtm. The best thing you could do would be to sell you PC and get a console.

... You are a moron. Have you ever wondered, even for one time, that I might actually delve that deep into my OS that I occasionally break it from time to time? How the heck would a restrictive console operating system cater to my interest of regularly pushing the envelope, trying new things or streamlining my installation, all to further my understanding of the Windows environment as well as customizing the whole experience?

Please grow up and realize that computers can be used in various ways. Where you might be satisfied with the regular look of everything, I might try to force a third-party desktop shell combined with a lot of resource hacking to give everything a new look, all while possibly hack together a DIY application for a certain need of mine.

Recommending a console with practically zero freedom is the most moronic thing I've ever heard, especially on a topic such as this.

---

At the end of the day the reasons why I reinstall the OS hardly matters. I might actually do it just for fun at times. I'm in no way a newbie to these kinds of stuff and I actually find the whole process rather stress relieving. Questioning why I would reinstall the OS as regularly as I do or telling me to sell my custom built $900 gaming PC as well as my $2500 gaming laptop in favor of a mere console is hardly the issue nor the topic here.

The subject of restrictive activation limits that serves no purpose is. And if you've got a smartass comment about how other uses their computers then please just do everyone a favor and keep it to yourself. Commenting upon it doesn't serve a purpose at all but merely distracts the discussion from the main topic at hand.

Friggin ignoratio elenchi.

[Headcrab_Zer0]

^ Exactly. What someone does with their computer is none of your concern and nor should it be a publisher's concern.

[TheHoSer]

this does nothing but punish honest consumers. PC gamers get no respect. So basiccly im "renting" this game. this is total bs. Rocksteady, I respect you as a Dev team but you need to put your foot down when it comes to this crap. All it does is leave a bad taste in PC Gamers mouth's. I dont see console gamers getting this screwed over, ever! always us. I paid full price for this title but just let me know when i have to return it because i dont wanna have to pay late fees, sarcasm intended.

Yours Truley, Utterly Disgusted :mad::mad::mad:

[FRancium34]

yep, exactly what i was afraid of, and the reason I haven't bought it at $25 sale price.

Honestly this activation limit nonsense is more disturbing to me than GFWL.

[Gordon]

well I am now down to 3 activations on my PC

activated it on Friday , Had a major screw of PC yestday requiring a complete reformat reinstalled it today and lost an activation

I think this is unacceptable

do we spend £ 15 - 20 on blu-ray only to be told you make only watch it five times or audio CD's on DVD's

The answer is NO WE DON'T but these firms want to take £ 30 - 40 and then dictate how often we install and play them and they wonder why Piracy is on the rise

measures like this will only serve to increase people Pirating the games not purchasing but they are too stupid to see it

by the way got this with an nvidia card and after all the trouble with activations and limits I doubt I would have bought it

[ParadoxSalem]

well I am now down to 3 activations on my PC

activated it on Friday , Had a major screw of PC yestday requiring a complete reformat reinstalled it today and lost an activation

So revoke one of the installations. Or just stay mad about it.

[Aemony]

The used serial number has already been activated 1 times on this PC.
The used serial number has already been activated on 2 different PCs.

The used serial number can be activated 10 times in total on this PC.
The used serial number can be activated on 5 different PCs in total.

*sigh*

My sleep is interrupted because Windows wakes itself up to automatically install the latest downloaded updates. I fully wakes up an hour later when I noticed that the computer didn't go to sleep/shutdown after the update was complete (heard Windows 8 will fix this). I proceed to read how Bethesda's 1.2 patch has broken Skyrim in new ridiculous ways.

*sigh*

Going to whine on Facebook a bit and just as I've clicked the submit button the whole computer freezes. Does a soft reset and my SSD isn't found at the POST state. The BIOS doesn't proceed after trying to identify the disk. Doing a hard reset finds the disk again and I proceed to boot into Windows 7 yet again. Within a minute the system freezes, a soft reset shows the disk has been lost once more.

Hard reset again, followed by booting up into my Windows Vista located on one of the secondary disks instead. Works, even though the SSD disappears within some minutes again. But the OS haven't been updated for a while and is only a barebone installation. Proceeds to install all updates, fix all minor linking issues due to the SSD not being available and such.

Finally when everything is ready I can conclude that I've only lost two things after the SSD and Windows 7 gave up: Battlefield 3 and Skyrim. Hardly a problem, as I just decouple the NTFS junction on the Skyrim folder and proceeds to download it yet again from Steam, as well as downloads and installs Origins to download Battlefield 3, now located alongside my other games on the slower HDD I'm now using.

Runs Batman: Arkham City. Activates the game and loses another activation of the five activation limits...

*sigh*

Realizes that fixing the SSD disk probably means installing a clean Windows 7, and as such yet another loss of activation...

*sigh*

So revoke one of the installations. Or just stay mad about it.

How?

[ParadoxSalem]

How?

Your days sucks. You have my condolences.

Found this, hope it helps.

http://community.batmanarkhamcity.com/forums/showthread.php/10978-A-few-questions-about-GFWL-SecuROM-and-some-more...?p=182298#post182298

[wyzim]

So what exactly happens after activation limit is reached? Do we call support, explain why all activations are used up and get a renew? Or just out of luck, can't play the game any more? All of this is so frustrating for the paying customers where as people who are playing the pirated copy have no headaches.

[animefan211]

Are you talking about the McDonalds hot coffee case? Cause that was a legitimate case of McD's having scalding/third degree burn HOT coffee.

she sued cuz the she dropped the coffee in her lap and it was "hot". it is ♥♥♥♥ing coffee what do you think it is going to be? cold? dumb ♥♥♥ people in this country I swear.

edit and I think they should give you an IQ test before your allow to do anything, yes I am very mean to moronic people.

[ParadoxSalem]

So what exactly happens after activation limit is reached? Do we call support, explain why all activations are used up and get a renew? Or just out of luck, can't play the game any more? All of this is so frustrating for the paying customers where as people who are playing the pirated copy have no headaches.

Did you read the post right above your own?

she sued cuz the she dropped the coffee in her lap and it was "hot". it is ♥♥♥♥ing coffee what do you think it is going to be? cold? dumb ♥♥♥ people in this country I swear.

Did you read about the case itself? The coffee was served at a temperature which would have easily caused severe burns. Not just "hot."

People on these forums, I swear.

In the process, she spilled the entire cup of coffee on her lap.[10] Liebeck was wearing cotton sweatpants; they absorbed the coffee and held it against her skin, scalding her thighs, buttocks, and groin.[11] Liebeck was taken to the hospital, where it was determined that she had suffered third-degree burns on six percent of her skin and lesser burns over sixteen percent.[12] She remained in the hospital for eight days while she underwent skin grafting. During this period, Liebeck lost 20 pounds (9 kg, nearly 20% of her body weight), reducing her down to 83 pounds (38 kg).[13] Two years of medical treatment followed. During the case, Liebeck's attorneys discovered that McDonald's required franchisees to serve coffee at 180–190 °F (82–88 °C). At that temperature, the coffee would cause a third-degree burn in two to seven seconds

[animefan211]

Did you read the post right above your own?



Did you read about the case itself? The coffee was served at a temperature which would have easily caused severe burns. Not just "hot."

People on these forums, I swear.

you could idk wait til it cools down? oh wait this is America we don't wait for ♥♥♥♥!

and btw this is the one we are talking about


Oh and to the hot coffee remark above that was the second suit. There was another one where a woman supposedly burnt herself and could not perform her "womanly duties" with her husband. (HER WORDS I SWEAR NOT MINE.) That is the one I am talking about.

[ParadoxSalem]

you could idk wait til it cools down? oh wait this is America we don't wait for ♥♥♥♥!

and btw this is the one we are talking about

Sauce?

I googled

hot coffee McDonald's "womanly duties"

and this thread is the primary search result. I'm not sure what specific case that's referring to.

[wyzim]

Did you read the post right above your own?
Yes, what about it?

[BlackOps101]

This is the same limits as the first release... I'd love to ♥♥♥♥♥, but if it makes the company sleep better at night this security has already been cracked. Steam handles this already so I really don't know why it's on steam... :rolleyes: I'm sure already mentioned, in tools, License Revoking Tool...

[ParadoxSalem]

Yes, what about it?

There's a link to how to revoke in the Arkham forums.

[Aemony]

This is the same limits as the first release... I'd love to ♥♥♥♥♥, but if it makes the company sleep better at night this security has already been cracked. Steam handles this already so I really don't know why it's on steam... :rolleyes: I'm sure already mentioned, in tools, License Revoking Tool...

I'm sorry, but were? I have no such thing in my Steam Tools library, or anything even close to it under the label Batman. Neither for the original Batman: Arkham Asylum GOTY game nor Arkham City.

The only way I can revoke is by using the executable line command mentioned previously.

[ParadoxSalem]

I'm sorry, but were? I have no such thing in my Steam Tools library, or anything even close to it under the label Batman. Neither for the original Batman: Arkham Asylum GOTY game nor Arkham City.

The only way I can revoke is by using the executable line command mentioned previously.

Neither do I, and if I recall, I never agree with Aemony on anything.

[DavidGX]

Nowadays, no. Back when Windows ME was out, I reinstalled Windows about once a month just for stability's sake.

I remember doing that with Windows 98. It would get noticeably slower over time and you'd have to reformat every month.

Why someone might be reformatting a lot isn't really the issue though. If you buy the game, it's yours. You should have no limits on how many times you can install it.

Maybe someone likes to reformat and reinstall the game every single day? Maybe they're weird and that's how they get their kicks? Who cares? It's their game and system.

[wyzim]

There's a link to how to revoke in the Arkham forums.

Yes, I had copy/pasted that to my email when I had first read it. From what I understand, I need to remember to do that BEFORE I format the PC, right? If I use up all the 5 licences and forget to revoke that 5th time too, I can't play the game any more? Or can I use that command even after my 5 activations are used up? Thanks.

EDIT: I am now wondering if I misunderstood the revoke tool completely. Does it completely remove the activation limit from the game so I can rebuild my PC any number of times without tracking Batman: AC installs? That would be cool.

[ParadoxSalem]

Yes, I had copy/pasted that to my email when I had first read it. From what I understand, I need to remember to do that BEFORE I format the PC, right? If I use up all the 5 licences and forget to revoke that 5th time too, I can't play the game any more? Or can I use that command even after my 5 activations are used up? Thanks.

EDIT: I am now wondering if I misunderstood the revoke tool completely. Does it completely remove the activation limit from the game so I can rebuild my PC any number of times without tracking Batman: AC installs? That would be cool.

That's pretty much how it works, yes. And if you forget and run out, contact Warners. Most publishers will revoke an installation or reset your install limit if you contact them personally.

[Krios]

Imagine if you want to play the game like 10 years from now and you don't have activation keys.

And Warner isn't offering support for the game anymore, and you can't find a usable copy on sale since the keys have been used, and let's say you manage to find a key. GFWL isn't around(would be a miracle tbh) and the DRM was never patched out. Then what?

Yeah.

[ParadoxSalem]

Imagine if you want to play the game like 10 years from now and you don't have activation keys.

And Warner isn't offering support for the game anymore, and you can't find a usable copy on sale since the keys have been used, and let's say you manage to find a key. GFWL isn't around(would be a miracle tbh) and the DRM was never patched out. Then what?

Yeah.

I'm sure Warners will be around in some form or another at that point. Hey I've got a great idea.

Ask them (http://www.warnerbros.com/help/customer-service.html).

Yeah.

EDIT: Additionally, I'm fairly certain Asylum refunds some of those installations automatically. I've installed it three times, and it still tells me I don't need to revoke anything.

[uvazquez]

Any kind of install limitation is plain dumb. I mean; we already have to LOG IN to Steam to enter the game; this makes us use the game once at a time in any PC. Then, we have to log in to GFWL, which has the same rules.

Then, why limit it? You're already limiting us with with the logins. Why limit our genuinelly purchased copy of the game? You have our money now, why don't you for once try to make your customer HAPPY? If they're happy they will give you more money.

Seriously, some companies need to learn from Valve: games at a fair price, good support, fair DRM (Steam login only), and an excellend back system for online gaming (the Steam network is great in my opinion).

How come most indie/small developers put their games DRM-Free in several places and they keep floating? Their games are not even that expensive. Wanna know why? Because they earned the symphaty of their customers. Every time I buy an indie game, I buy it several times and gift copies to my friends, even though I could simply lend my copy to them as it is DRM free, but I feel they deserve the money for being so good at their policies, and also their games rock while a lot of new games from big companies are horrible.

I'm really angry at this now. But hey, I didn't expect any less coming from a game which support Windows Live and Microsoft. I can only hope that once the customers stand up to this and start moving toward this ridiculous attempt to attack the legitimate customer (which by the way doesn't make the game less pirateable, as seen as every program has a pirated counterpart) they meet their inevitable fall and the gaming world will be great again.

As of now, I will just play the game and when the time comes see if I can revoke it or not. If not then... well, I hope they are prepared to receive a very angry message from me.

[xylitar]

Any kind of install limitation is plain dumb. I mean; we already have to LOG IN to Steam to enter the game; this makes us use the game once at a time in any PC. Then, we have to log in to GFWL, which has the same rules.

Then, why limit it? You're already limiting us with with the logins. Why limit our genuinelly purchased copy of the game? You have our money now, why don't you for once try to make your customer HAPPY? If they're happy they will give you more money.

Seriously, some companies need to learn from Valve: games at a fair price, good support, fair DRM (Steam login only), and an excellend back system for online gaming (the Steam network is great in my opinion).

How come most indie/small developers put their games DRM-Free in several places and they keep floating? Their games are not even that expensive. Wanna know why? Because they earned the symphaty of their customers. Every time I buy an indie game, I buy it several times and gift copies to my friends, even though I could simply lend my copy to them as it is DRM free, but I feel they deserve the money for being so good at their policies, and also their games rock while a lot of new games from big companies are horrible.

I'm really angry at this now. But hey, I didn't expect any less coming from a game which support Windows Live and Microsoft. I can only hope that once the customers stand up to this and start moving toward this ridiculous attempt to attack the legitimate customer (which by the way doesn't make the game less pirateable, as seen as every program has a pirated counterpart) they meet their inevitable fall and the gaming world will be great again.

As of now, I will just play the game and when the time comes see if I can revoke it or not. If not then... well, I hope they are prepared to receive a very angry message from me.

The activation limit kinda sucks, i agree... But... as they made this game, they also have the right to choose if and what DRM it will use... It kinda puts most gamers with their nose on the actual fact that you do not own any game... None... you have a licence to use it. And the company can set rules on that licence. Rules like : you cannot freely distribute as a whole or part of the software... Or for mmo as an example :cheating will result in ban and make you can't use that licence anymore...

Still, i don't really like it... But to be honest, doesn't really bother me... But i guess that must be because the days of win 98/ME are far behind me and i don't reinstall my pc every one or two months. Long time ago... ah, the old(er) days... You still rememmber? About the same time gamers were fed up they could only play when the cd was in the drive and went 'omg, what the ♥♥♥♥, now i'm venting on forums, the bastards'... and after a while that became normal and the bikkering went away, just like i'm sure this will as well...

And no offense, but i really don't think a multi billion dollar company is very much impressed, let alone be scared, of a 'strongly worded letter'....

I don't like this drm... but hey... go with the flow, or don't play this game, i guess... IOW... just as it always has been...

No offense to anyone, but now i got to smoothly kick some joker, cobblepot and regular baddies teeth out...

[NomadSoul]

None... you have a licence to use it. And the company can set rules on that licence. Rules like : you cannot freely distribute as a whole or part of the software...

Rules you don't even get to see until you've purchased the game and, by their reasoning, have already accepted said rules. Riiight. Imagine you purchase a new TV, and after you unbox it and start it up for the first time a screen pops up telling you you're only allowed to use the TV for two hours a day, but since you've already unboxed it you've accepted the terms of the license agreement. Sounds completely legit, doesn't it?

Still, i don't really like it... But to be honest, doesn't really bother me... But i guess that must be because the days of win 98/ME are far behind me and i don't reinstall my pc every one or two months.

Yep, that's why publishers can get away with this crap. They know most people will bend over and take it rather than demand some kind of vaguely ethical behavior from the companies that they're forking over their hard earned dollars to.


I don't like this drm... but hey... go with the flow, or don't play this game, i guess... IOW... just as it always has been...



Don't play the game you've already purchased if you don't agree to the terms of the license you're considered to have accepted before you even had a chance to read it, is that really the sum total of your message here?

[NomadSoul]

Imagine if you want to play the game like 10 years from now and you don't have activation keys.

And Warner isn't offering support for the game anymore, and you can't find a usable copy on sale since the keys have been used, and let's say you manage to find a key. GFWL isn't around(would be a miracle tbh) and the DRM was never patched out. Then what?

Yeah.

That's not a bug, that's a feature. That's THE feature. Then you get to shell out more money for some anniversary special edition of the game. It's kind of obvious when these DRM systems don't really stop pirates but effectively do limit the longevity of a license for a legitimate user. Bit by bit major publishers are chipping away at the basic rights software owners have always enjoyed, piracy is just the excuse.

Already you have no ability to resell or transfer the license, PC users are as of this moment purchasing software more crippled than what console owners are getting, for the same price (never mind that console software comes with a hefty royalty fee so publishers are making a significant extra profit off of PC games). But that's not enough, they've made it clear that they don't want your license to be perpetual either.

[xylitar]

Rules you don't even get to see until you've purchased the game and, by their reasoning, have already accepted said rules. Riiight. Imagine you purchase a new TV, and after you unbox it and start it up for the first time a screen pops up telling you you're only allowed to use the TV for two hours a day, but since you've already unboxed it you've accepted the terms of the license agreement. Sounds completely legit, doesn't it?

Doesn't matter if it sounds legit to you or me if it is legit to the rules of law... Bought an xbox years ago, didn't get a book with it where it stated i could not open it without the warranty being void until i found that rule in the box after i bought it. Bought a snickers in a vending machine, side of the package i could not see in the machine had printed 'not for individual resale' on it, and i wanted to sell it... And why did that guy at the phonestore didn't gave me a paper before i bought anything that told me that flushing my cellphone wasn't covered by the warranty? Would you like to get a book a bible thick with every game to tell you everything? With your set of mind they should, or else it is legit to copy and distribute the game as well, because i didn't see it printed on the box (bacause, don't even have a box, i got it here on steam), i only knew when i bought it... Well... One way to find out if your way of thinking is correct. Good luck in court when you drag them there...



Yep, that's why publishers can get away with this crap. They know most people will bend over and take it rather than demand some kind of vaguely ethical behavior from the companies that they're forking over their hard earned dollars to.


They can get 'away' with it because of what... because they make a drm that presumes 99,99% of the pc players do not reinstall their pc every 2 months? how wrong they are...


Don't play the game you've already purchased if you don't agree to the terms of the license you're considered to have accepted before you even had a chance to read it, is that really the sum total of your message here?

to you it is... You can try for a refund... But you are angry because you know good and well, there is not much you will or can do about it, in the 'legit' way... I guess you really expect a book with every rule and law that applies to a game or product when you go out and buy it... If you are really so consequent in this kind of thinking you must be very often upset, have a lot of trip to the court or... don't buy much of anything... Anyway, make sure you stop at every red light when you drive to court over this, the state not have gaven you a book where it was written you had to stop won't be a valid excuse...

And no offense, but you have to excuse me, i'm in the last part of this very very nice game, still a lot of bad guys teeth need breaking....

[xylitar]

...

Bit by bit major publishers are chipping away at the basic rights software owners have always enjoyed, piracy is just the excuse.

...



The basic rights... Tell me, what exactly are these basic rights? i'll send a warning up to steam now telling your next post will have them to double the capacity of the storage on these forum servers...

In an effort to make you less angry and even make you laugh : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otp2UGH32Rw

[NomadSoul]

Doesn't matter if it sounds legit to you or me if it is legit to the rules of law...

Yeah, let's talk about that. Let's talk contract law. Tell me, do you think that you can be bound to a contract before you even read it? If you really believe that, then perhaps they ought to stop bothering to type up the contracts then since they can just assume you agree to anything, right? I think you know your counter examples were irrelevant, somewhere in your mind you have to have a suspicion that a snickers bar bearing the words "not labeled for individual sale" is not the same thing as a multi page contract that says "by opening the box that contained this you are already bound by it".

See, contracts for things like operating systems are made clear to you BEFORE you accept them. With such terminology as "if you do not accept the terms of this contract, return the product to the place of purchase for a refund" or somesuch. But somehow in the scummy world of computer games publishers have decided that you have to purchase a product which you cannot return before you're even allowed to see what you're agreeing to.

Apparently you think that this is okay, because a candy bar that says "not labeled for individual sale" is totally the same thing as a sixty dollar game saying "you're only allowed to install this five times and then the license is canceled and by reading this license you're already bound by this restriction and no take backs". I remain unconvinced, I'm just waiting for someone to get fed up with this kind of thing and go ahead with a lawsuit. I, obviously, do not have the resources to mount a lawsuit, but as I've hinted I have significant suspicions that it's not legit to assume that a customer is bound by the terms of a contract before they even see it. Even in a world where major industries purchase custom written law through lobbyists this still sounds fishy to the extreme because you have to be able to read a contract to be able to agree to it.

And in the mean time, yes, I do get to vote with my dollars. I know that this will not change the industry because their customer base is mostly made up of sheep such as yourself who are happy to accept getting less and less for their dollar because that's just how it is. But I do not have to follow, and I can still purchase products from companies that respect me as a customer. However I cannot do this if I can't even tell what games do this kind of thing before I've already purchased them. Steam has in the past indicated which products they sell have an install limit, I looked it up before hand for Arkham City and was reassured to see no such restriction listed.


Incidentally you don't have to just accept it. But since you do accept it and indeed criticize anyone who finds it unacceptable, this is what you get. Ubisoft ran into enough blowback from their restrictive DRM that they were forced to change it. Publishers that used the short lived Starforce got such negative feedback that they ditched it. User responses DO matter.

But you're happy to fork over your money in exchange for a license that's more of a lease than a purchase. So that's exactly what you get. Enjoy it while it lasts, in another few years this kind of intrusive crap will seem like the golden days. Thanks to sheep such as yourself happy to roll over every time a new outrage is handed out to you.

[NomadSoul]

And just one more thing:

I guess you really expect a book with every rule and law that applies to a game or product when you go out and buy it...

This is apparently very difficult for you to understand, so I will try to spell it out for you once more. If I want to know what laws apply to the game, I can go look them up. Laws are, with very few exceptions, not secret. That's kind of the point of them. So, for instance, if I purchase a CD at the store I know what laws apply to it already. However if I purchase a CD and open it up only to find a piece of paper saying "by opening this case you have agreed that you are only allowed to play this CD on odd numbered days" then there is a problem, such a restriction is not legal because I had no way to know about it before hand, I was unable to consent.

Contracts are not public laws, they are, well, contracts, between two parties. The only ones who have to be aware of them are the two parties involved. In this case the publisher, and me. Before I can agree to be bound by the terms of the contract the terms have to be made available to me, I have to have had a chance to read it before I can agree to it and I DO have to agree to it. It is entirely legitimate to keep others from being familiar with the terms of such a contract, but you do not get to turn around and say that people who have been kept in the dark are also bound by it.

[xylitar]

Yeah, let's talk about that. Let's talk contract law. Tell me, do you think that you can be bound to a contract before you even read it? If you really believe that, then perhaps they ought to stop bothering to type up the contracts then since they can just assume you agree to anything, right? I think you know your counter examples were irrelevant, somewhere in your mind you have to have a suspicion that a snickers bar bearing the words "not labeled for individual sale" is not the same thing as a multi page contract that says "by opening the box that contained this you are already bound by it".


irrellevant to you, i'm sure... hahaha... an agreement is an agreement, and i'm sure you made very much of them in the past just like with this game, just like i said with those 'irrelevant' examples. Only you 'fall' over this one, not others... Why don't you shout it is such injustice you cannot freely copy a game? You didn't have that in writing before you bought it?


See, contracts for things like operating systems are made clear to you BEFORE you accept them. With such terminology as "if you do not accept the terms of this contract, return the product to the place of purchase for a refund" or somesuch. But somehow in the scummy world of computer games publishers have decided that you have to purchase a product which you cannot return before you're even allowed to see what you're agreeing to.

You can ask for a refund... And then, they can refuse, yes... like so many stores where there is a sign 'no refunds'...


Apparently you think that this is okay, because a candy bar that says "not labeled for individual sale" is totally the same thing as a sixty dollar game saying "you're only allowed to install this five times and then the license is canceled and by reading this license you're already bound by this restriction and no take backs". I remain unconvinced, I'm just waiting for someone to get fed up with this kind of thing and go ahead with a lawsuit. I, obviously, do not have the resources to mount a lawsuit, but as I've hinted I have significant suspicions that it's not legit to assume that a customer is bound by the terms of a contract before they even see it. Even in a world where major industries purchase custom written law through lobbyists this still sounds fishy to the extreme because you have to be able to read a contract to be able to agree to it.

Then go see a lawyer and ask how good your chances are... form a group of people and get the resources... I wish you the best of luck... let us know how it turned out... then you'll know if your significant suspicions are true...


And in the mean time, yes, I do get to vote with my dollars. I know that this will not change the industry because their customer base is mostly made up of sheep such as yourself who are happy to accept getting less and less for their dollar because that's just how it is. But I do not have to follow, and I can still purchase products from companies that respect me as a customer. However I cannot do this if I can't even tell what games do this kind of thing before I've already purchased them. Steam has in the past indicated which products they sell have an install limit, I looked it up before hand for Arkham City and was reassured to see no such restriction listed.

At least this sheep is playing this very awesome game... I think i have very very much what i paid for, the game is awesome... It is always the fault of someone else is it? It is beause of others bought it, play it, enjoy it, and do not come complain about somehting on a forum that you are so a victim, hmm...



Incidentally you don't have to just accept it. But since you do accept it and indeed criticize anyone who finds it unacceptable, this is what you get. Ubisoft ran into enough blowback from their restrictive DRM that they were forced to change it. Publishers that used the short lived Starforce got such negative feedback that they ditched it. User responses DO matter.

But you're happy to fork over your money in exchange for a license that's more of a lease than a purchase. So that's exactly what you get. Enjoy it while it lasts, in another few years this kind of intrusive crap will seem like the golden days. Thanks to sheep such as yourself happy to roll over every time a new outrage is handed out to you.

rofl....

I do not criticize aniyone... it is your right to complain, maybe you only still need to figure out that you need to do it where it will have any effect, like the ones that sold it to you, or even better the ones that made it. And i'm pointing out that there are many many more things you buy where you agree on things before you know restrictions where you don't seem to have that many problems with.

You find this all sooooo unacceptable... then ask for a refund... either with valve/steam... or the company... or else go try to convince people that actually can do anything about it... like a judge...

And i certainly will enjoy games for many years more to come... aaah, the good old ays keep repeating themselves : I cannot play without the disk in the drive "omg omg, not fair, will ruin gaming... Have to have a manual to lookup a copy protection word 'omg omg, this will ruin gaming'... have to activate a game through internet 'omg omg, sooo unfair, this will ruin gaming'....

and yet...

gaming is still around... and will be... for a long time to come...

[xylitar]

And just one more thing:



This is apparently very difficult for you to understand, so I will try to spell it out for you once more. If I want to know what laws apply to the game, I can go look them up. Laws are, with very few exceptions, not secret. That's kind of the point of them. So, for instance, if I purchase a CD at the store I know what laws apply to it already. However if I purchase a CD and open it up only to find a piece of paper saying "by opening this case you have agreed that you are only allowed to play this CD on odd numbered days" then there is a problem, such a restriction is not legal because I had no way to know about it before hand, I was unable to consent.

Contracts are not public laws, they are, well, contracts, between two parties. The only ones who have to be aware of them are the two parties involved. In this case the publisher, and me. Before I can agree to be bound by the terms of the contract the terms have to be made available to me, I have to have had a chance to read it before I can agree to it and I DO have to agree to it. It is entirely legitimate to keep others from being familiar with the terms of such a contract, but you do not get to turn around and say that people who have been kept in the dark are also bound by it.

Then why don't you write a mail to the company and ask them the terms of agreement before you buy it? you know, like ask? Never thought about that?I mean, if you are really soooooo suspicious about drm, ask them BEFORE you buy...

[NomadSoul]

Then why don't you write a mail to the company and ask them the terms of agreement before you buy it? you know, like ask? Never thought about that?I mean, if you are really soooooo suspicious about drm, ask them BEFORE you buy...

You really are being willfully obtuse, aren't you? I suppose the hint was when you claimed to believe that "not labeled for individual sale" is a binding contract.

You wouldn't accept this crap from anywhere else. I'll ask again, if you purchased a television and then found out you were only allowed to watch it for two hours a day, would you say "oh well, at least it's got such a pretty picture, I'll just shill for the manufacturer instead"? Of course not.

You don't actually believe that it's the responsibility of the consumer to go out of their way to contact a manufacturer before they purchase anything to find out if the manufacturer has decided to attach pointless, arbitrary limits to the product. You don't actually believe that contract law works this way, that the marketplace is a minefield of secret obligations that you can find yourself a prisoner to if you happen to purchase something without going out of your way to request a copy of the secret contracts before you purchase them.

But here you're pretending to. I find that interesting.

[NomadSoul]

irrellevant to you, i'm sure... hahaha... an agreement is an agreement

And again you keep stumbling past this point. Where did I consent to this? When did I agree? Agreement implies consent. Or else can I simply say that by engaging me in discussion you've agreed to agree with my position according to this agreement that I have right here?

gaming is still around... and will be... for a long time to come...

Oh sure, it will be around. But if shills like you get your way it won't look much like it does now. This is the start of making licenses self terminating. Those good old games you refer to? I have quite a few of them, and I can go back and play them. Ten years from now will you be able to go back and play this game? Not in the form it's in now, your license will have effectively terminated itself. If you wish to go back and get a little more out of the game that you apparently enjoy so much, you'll get to pay for it again. For the same game. You'll have to pay for the privilege of getting a modified version of the game that's dropped GFWL which will likely be long gone by then and picked up some new draconian copy protection. It'll still be there listed in your Steam games list, but it will be useless. A worthless, dead license to a game that you can no longer use.

This is a future you apparently can't wait to see. You can have it.

[xylitar]

You really are being willfully obtuse, aren't you? I suppose the hint was when you claimed to believe that "not labeled for individual sale" is a binding contract.

You wouldn't accept this crap from anywhere else. I'll ask again, if you purchased a television and then found out you were only allowed to watch it for two hours a day, would you say "oh well, at least it's got such a pretty picture, I'll just shill for the manufacturer instead"? Of course not.

You don't actually believe that it's the responsibility of the consumer to go out of their way to contact a manufacturer before they purchase anything to find out if the manufacturer has decided to attach pointless, arbitrary limits to the product. You don't actually believe that contract law works this way, that the marketplace is a minefield of secret obligations that you can find yourself a prisoner to if you happen to purchase something without going out of your way to request a copy of the secret contracts before you purchase them.

But here you're pretending to. I find that interesting.

Haven't seen see a tv that does that...

It is your responsibility to inform yourself yes... Even more, you have a RIGHT to ask... Don't you ask questions when you buy other things? Then i guess you don't ask or look for info on anything before you buy something. I'm afraid that it is most likely you that actually ends up with that tv you mentioned.

[xylitar]

And again you keep stumbling past this point. Where did I consent to this? When did I agree? Agreement implies consent. Or else can I simply say that by engaging me in discussion you've agreed to agree with my position according to this agreement that I have right here?


When you installed the game... and did you install the game? yes? Then you made the agreement. Did you not install it? You can go and ask for a refund. Will they accept your refund? Don't know, some shops or items have a no refund tag.


Oh sure, it will be around. But if shills like you get your way it won't look much like it does now. This is the start of making licenses self terminating. Those good old games you refer to? I have quite a few of them, and I can go back and play them. Ten years from now will you be able to go back and play this game? Not in the form it's in now, your license will have effectively terminated itself. If you wish to go back and get a little more out of the game that you apparently enjoy so much, you'll get to pay for it again. For the same game. You'll have to pay for the privilege of getting a modified version of the game that's dropped GFWL which will likely be long gone by then and picked up some new draconian copy protection. It'll still be there listed in your Steam games list, but it will be useless. A worthless, dead license to a game that you can no longer use.

This is a future you apparently can't wait to see. You can have it.

There is nobody twisting your arm to buy anything, nobody in the world that says you have to play this or any game. I as well have few games i can still play, and a whole ♥♥♥♥♥load of them that won't even run anymore on todays computers. it is called, moving on, evolution... Why would my license in AC be automatically be terminated in ten years time? Because you think or say it will be? Heck, will i even want to play it anymore a decade later? Will my pc i have even be able to run it? new incompatible windows, hardware, drivers, etc etc? GFWL? so, what about it that it might not exist anymore... who knows steam itself exist a decade from now. Imagine how much games you lose when that happens !!! I already have a few games in my steam list i can't play anymore. don't want to run on the windows i have now... bummer...

You might find drm draconian, hey, that is your right. Hell, i'm no fan about them either. But since i did not make the game, i do not decide on such things. I do what i always try to do. Inform myself before i buy, and when i reallllly don't like something about drm or agreement, i do not buy...

And yes, i cannot wait to see what the future in gaming will bring us, but looking at the evolution of gaming... AWESOME... And i'm sure many people will be sad when they notice that you didn't wanted to be part of it.

[PrivateBurke]

There seems to be a lot of people here attempting to belittle users who are reinstalling Windows a fair amount of times.

You know who reinstalls windows a lot? Power-users i.e. not "gamers."

In the past 6 months I've installed Windows 6 times. Because:

1) Windows decided that it was going to split the installation and put the boot files on a separate drive. This is a function of the installation media and not my own.

2) Windows corrupted it's boot.ini after Fedora 17's kernel upgraded (again Windows's fault)

3) Windows registry became invalid after a hard crash when testing the max overclock of my CPU (again not user error)

4) Adding a RAID array to the southbridge made the ACHI drivers in Windows not respond. Even single drives on a raid controller use ACHI drivers (again Window's poor design)

5) Upgraded to Windows 8

6) Windows 8 fails to load after the uninstall of poorly developed Catalyst drivers. Windows uninstalled all drivers associated with Video Cards and thus had not one display driver.

Basically Activation limits are too be avoided if you use your computer for anything advanced. Gaming you'll be fine.

[HitDeity]

I thought overclocking one's system (or any component thereof) was done at the overclocker's risk. Or, it was the overclocker's fault that they overclocked their system, so the fault lies with them. And fault being "user error" in this case. :confused:

Just curious..

[PrivateBurke]

I thought overclocking one's system (or any component thereof) was done at the overclocker's risk. Or, it was the overclocker's fault that they overclocked their system, so the fault lies with them. And fault being "user error" in this case. :confused:

Just curious..

The risk is damaging the physical aspects of one's machine. Window's inability to recover from component failure is not user error. Plus, there's really no fault with overclocking because you will always crash your computer if you're doing it right.

Crashing from an overclock is akin to suffering a brownout on the local power grid. Sudden loss of power in the middle of a process does not count as user error.