PDA

View Full Version : Why people using Steam Achievement Manager still got their reward?


FarfromUSA
12-26-2011, 03:43 AM
They should be banned from the future achievement-related community events.These cheaters shouldn't get reward for their cheating, this will totally spoil the gaming community!

pepinareal
12-26-2011, 05:01 AM
They should be banned from the future achievement-related community events.These cheaters shouldn't get reward for their cheating, this will totally spoil the gaming community!

Important to forbid hackers and fraudsters in the game. If someone hacking and achievements = noob. Same time, but what can we do? First to take care of hack games. ( l4d2,TF2,COD:WM3......)

BloodyRose
12-26-2011, 06:57 AM
I've reported somebody who did this today:
http://i.imgur.com/F4ojd.jpg
I can only hope Valve do something about it, but it's unlikely.

johnkx
12-26-2011, 07:15 AM
is this legal? I'm pretty sure its not.

McMasterGold
12-26-2011, 07:20 AM
Don't tell me this works with the achievement events. If so, Valve must REALLY do something about it.

tapskill
12-26-2011, 07:38 AM
Achievements can be hacked? Who knew. [/sarcasm]

BloodyRose
12-26-2011, 07:41 AM
Don't tell me this works with the achievement events. If so, Valve must REALLY do something about it.

It sure does. And yes, it is illegal. People don't care, though. I messaged that guy and he said that 4 of his friends have done the same and never got banned.

FarfromUSA
12-26-2011, 10:34 AM
Don't tell me this works with the achievement events. If so, Valve must REALLY do something about it.

It worked, and a lot of people using it, completed achievements within seconds while other honest players spend huge time on some difficult achievements from Tokitori or super meat boy, and got their awards with no risk at all. That's also the reason why some coal farmers with HUGE numbers of accounts can get their gifts so quickly

Dr0W
12-26-2011, 11:07 AM
Oh my, thanks for even telling me of the existence of this tool.

That was sarcasm btw, I enjoy getting my achievements but really I didn't know that it even existed but now I do and I'm pretty sure that lots of people who will use it too. You should have contacted steam support directly.

Qud
12-26-2011, 11:25 AM
Hehe yeah it does not sound too fair now does it.
I for one have spent quite a time for playing these achievements. I have won nothing but coupons so I'm not too glad to read how some people are gettings games by cheating. :mad:

Viperr101
12-26-2011, 11:29 AM
Using this program to unlock achievements that are a part of the event is technically not breaking the rules if it doesn't say anywhere "No outside programs can be used to unlock these achievements." It's still bull♥♥♥♥ though, and It's impossible for valve to track down every single person using it.

However, I just did the killing floor event achievement (it shows it unlocked for my game) but I didn't get the "event" achievement for it... So now I'm stuck with a broken achievement, and the only way i can think of fixing it is to use the achievement program to remove it from my account, and then get it again.

It's not the fault of the user when using programs like this to fix things that are broken with steam, unless they're using it to shamefully unlock ones they haven't done themselves.

Update: Half an hour later it unlocked the achievement for me

FarfromUSA
12-26-2011, 11:30 AM
They don't even need to download the game:o

vierasniper
12-26-2011, 01:11 PM
cry some more

Phobix
12-26-2011, 06:28 PM
Valve did do something - the game Spiral Knights has secure achievements. Ultimately though it shouldn't matter. The whole point of the gift giveaway is to make you buy those games - the same as the Portal 2 ARG. Getting you to play them is nice, but most people are just using the wiki and playing the games incorrectly just to get the achievement (i.e. game saves). There's no huge difference between playing a game for 5 minutes just for the achievement and using S.A.M. - you're still not giving the game a chance and you have to own it in both cases. Any notion of "work" is laughable - it's a game.................

neoduke007
12-26-2011, 10:12 PM
Valve did do something - the game Spiral Knights has secure achievements. Ultimately though it shouldn't matter. The whole point of the gift giveaway is to make you buy those games - the same as the Portal 2 ARG. Getting you to play them is nice, but most people are just using the wiki and playing the games incorrectly just to get the achievement (i.e. game saves). There's no huge difference between playing a game for 5 minutes just for the achievement and using S.A.M. - you're still not giving the game a chance and you have to own it in both cases. Any notion of "work" is laughable - it's a game.................

Well some games do take time, Rusty Hearts is 30 minutes, Beat Hazard took me multiple attempts and a total of 40 minutes time.

Bunch of Heroes took me a good 30 minutes with 2 attempts.

Now some people just went in and did it all with a click of the button, this just isn't fair...

Like for example, I won't even get a coal or anything from Rusty Hearts now as I can't get the game to start

MartinKhan
12-26-2011, 10:17 PM
cry some more

I think you might be one of those who use that program. If not, I don't see why you think this is just crying. Contest aside, do you really think it's fair for people to get all the achievements with a simple click, when you spent, let's say, 60 hours trying to get that last achievement you missed to have 100% in game X?

Phobix
12-26-2011, 10:19 PM
Well some games do take time, Rusty Hearts is 30 minutes, Beat Hazard took me multiple attempts and a total of 40 minutes time.

Bunch of Heroes took me a good 30 minutes with 2 attempts.

Now some people just went in and did it all with a click of the button, this just isn't fair...

Like for example, I won't even get a coal or anything from Rusty Hearts now as I can't get the game to start

Are you having fun? If not why even do the achievements. I don't see how you're on any "moral high ground" by completing the achievements unhappily as opposed to just using this thing. Like I said the point was to get people to try out new games and buy those games (like the Portal ARG). I don't see how grinding through a game to get these achievements is any different from not playing it at all.

AdrianM
12-26-2011, 10:19 PM
Now some people just went in and did it all with a click of the button, this just isn't fair...

How the hell this is not fair.Today I heard first time about this tool and I found that is free ,so how the hell is not fair.Download it and use it if you think its not fair .Its not like you have to pay something ,everyone can use it .

MartinKhan
12-26-2011, 10:28 PM
How the hell this is not fair.Today I heard the first time about this tool and I found that is free ,so how the hell is not fair.Download it and use it if you think its not fair .Its not like you have to pay something ,everyone can use it .

Yes, it's free, whatever, etc.

Still, it's not fair. Yes, everyone can use it, etc. However, there're people, like me, who like the sensation of accomplishment you should get when completing an achievement. For example, getting to the end of Half-Life 2: Episode Two without any building destroyed, was really satisfying for me. I liked getting that achievement, because that's what it is: an achievement, something I achieved by playing the game, not by using an external program, which is, in fact, illegal.

Achievements are there to achieve, not to unlock with a simple click. If that was the case, they'd be called "Clickings".

srredfire
12-26-2011, 10:58 PM
I find things like this pretty funny. If people want to do it, why not, let them. I myself like gaining my achievements, because it's fun to do so, it's a challenge.

As for you saying it's "illegal", I'd like to see where in the TOS or EULA or whatever it says it's illegal or against the rules. I'm not saying it isn't I'm just curious if there's some documentation to back up these claims.

Either way SAM has been around for years and I don't think anyone will do anything about it, so it's just going to annoy and rear it's ugly head during events like these, one side will be for it, another will not.

OH WELL.

vierasniper
12-26-2011, 11:18 PM
I think you might be one of those who use that program. If not, I don't see why you think this is just crying. Contest aside, do you really think it's fair for people to get all the achievements with a simple click, when you spent, let's say, 60 hours trying to get that last achievement you missed to have 100% in game X?

Games, they are GAMES. Are there any advantages to the player that uses S.A.M? Besides getting the achievement faster than you? Why should anyone see it YOUR way?

Wurpler
12-27-2011, 12:03 AM
You cares? does it directly affect you? Does it lessen the fun you get from playing games? Who cares about other peoples achievements?

I'm tempted to use a manager to get some achievements for games I own but can't download (20gb data cap) It's not like I haven't done my 11 so far legitimately, and I'll end up doing the achievements myself at some point after this is over.

xxxVJ300xxx
12-27-2011, 04:07 AM
Well some games do take time, Rusty Hearts is 30 minutes, Beat Hazard took me multiple attempts and a total of 40 minutes time.

Bunch of Heroes took me a good 30 minutes with 2 attempts.

Now some people just went in and did it all with a click of the button, this just isn't fair...

Like for example, I won't even get a coal or anything from Rusty Hearts now as I can't get the game to start

Are you having fun? If not why even do the achievements.

RIGHT THERE! What Phobix said in this shortend quote. Sure it's nice to try and win stuff but if you aren't enjoying getting the achievement then do you really deserve it?

I'll admit I installed Spiral Knights purely for the achievement cause I knew how to get it, but after I did and just signed of then uninstalled (don't like the game) I felt a little dead inside. Sure it's a limited time to get them, but if you cheat or breeze your way through wheres the excitement?

As for literly useing a program to achieve stuff and get things, I think a month ban and removeall from drawing should do it. It may have not been in the rules but it's STILL not fair to others.

Edit: No I don't think it's too excessive either. If an event WASN'T already going on then S.A.M should be fine, but since one is it shouldn't be allowed.

Sp3tZn4z
12-27-2011, 04:51 AM
This is from the Steam Subscriber Agreement under "5. ONLINE CONDUCT, CHEATING AND ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR"

Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers.

Doesn't say anything about achievments in particular but the part I quoted is fairly broad and you might get banned if Valve thinks it's illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers.

lemenjuice
12-27-2011, 05:52 AM
It doesn't affect anyone, apart from not spending 5minutes doing the achievement.

Problem is multi accounting, SAM does not affect YOU personally in any way possible.

BloodyRose
12-27-2011, 05:56 AM
Why not cheat in every game you play? Everyone does it. It's just a game and you just have fun, right?
That's pretty much what I hear from those defending SAM users in this thread.

Sp3tZn4z
12-27-2011, 06:01 AM
It doesn't affect anyone, apart from not spending 5minutes doing the achievement.

Problem is multi accounting, SAM does not affect YOU personally in any way possible.
Yes it does. The chance of winning a prize in the "Epic Holiday Giveaway" drops for people who get the achievements legitimately and the people who do use SAM get a higher win percentage.

So tell me how that doesn't affect anyone?

Dunndude
12-27-2011, 06:24 AM
Leeches, leeches everywhere!

Even if you only play games for the achievements it lets you experience that game and I have had some nice surprises, but cheating should just have your inventory whiped (no banning as steam offers a service)

It's pretty sad though and hurts legitimate players, *sigh*

MartinKhan
12-27-2011, 06:29 AM
Why not cheat in every game you play? Everyone does it. It's just a game and you just have fun, right?
That's pretty much what I hear from those defending SAM users in this thread.

This.

Yes it does. The chance of winning a prize in the "Epic Holiday Giveaway" drops for people who get the achievements legitimately and the people who do use SAM get a higher win percentage.

So tell me how that doesn't affect anyone?

And this.

Also, like BloodyRose said, so, if I'm having fun, I can cheat for achievements, right? Because I'm having fun? And, if I'm having fun, I can also cheat in my games, to move faster, or have infinite health? Because I'm having fun?

See, that's the problem. First it's just "But it's only an achievement, I won't bother doing it", and then you can end "They always kill me, I'll download this invincibility hack, so I can win and have fun!". Yes, some people won't do it, but other people will.

Ashsaver
12-27-2011, 06:33 AM
Don't worry about it,you enjoy getting those hard-earned achievements and that's good enough.

p00hi
12-27-2011, 06:41 AM
Im not sure why people are soo upset.

Achievements are meant to be fun by providing a little bit of a challange for you. Every achievement soo far on this event is pretty easy with no more than an hour of work. If someone likes to skip that hour of playing a game he doesn't enjoy but spent money on it let him have the achievement. If someone is hurt by seeing someone else having done more achievements than him.. well, grow up. I would suggest to everyone that if ur level of skill is in doubt just go play some freekin' multiplayer game and own some "noobs" if that makes u happy&satisfied. But cmon don't whine about people finishing achievements with 1 click i know this bothers u just becouse of this event and event achievements are freekin' easy, some enjoy doing them others don't. If people don't have fun doing them but still payed good money for the games, then from my POV they deserve it(the achievment).

p.s. they might be just noobs.. if u look at them as handicaped players they deserve a 'cheat' :)

Phobix
12-27-2011, 07:17 AM
And this.

Also, like BloodyRose said, so, if I'm having fun, I can cheat for achievements, right? Because I'm having fun? And, if I'm having fun, I can also cheat in my games, to move faster, or have infinite health? Because I'm having fun?

See, that's the problem. First it's just "But it's only an achievement, I won't bother doing it", and then you can end "They always kill me, I'll download this invincibility hack, so I can win and have fun!". Yes, some people won't do it, but other people will.

This is implying that somehow getting an achievement affects other users of the game as opposed to using a hack that would affect other users. A nice leap of logic, but doesn't apply in this case. If you can somehow prove that me having achievement X in Half Life 2 prevents you from enjoying Half Life 2 as well, by all means prove it. :)

And no one is saying that people derive fun out of using this tool - only they are simply skipping the grinding that most people are doing. You can't honestly tell me you do achievements just to grind? You must get some fun out of it. Achievements are meant to provide goals after you've completed the game (or during - as is the case for most achievements nowadays), not for grinding. People are using this tool to simply skip the grinding that most people are claiming as work - even though this wasn't the intent of the contest at all.

BloodyRose
12-27-2011, 07:29 AM
This is implying that somehow getting an achievement affects other users of the game as opposed to using a hack that would affect other users. A nice leap of logic, but doesn't apply in this case. If you can somehow prove that me having achievement X in Half Life 2 prevents you from enjoying Half Life 2 as well, by all means prove it. :)

And no one is saying that people derive fun out of using this tool - only they are simply skipping the grinding that most people are doing. You can't honestly tell me you do achievements just to grind? You must get some fun out of it. Achievements are meant to provide goals after you've completed the game (or during - as is the case for most achievements nowadays), not for grinding. People are using this tool to simply skip the grinding that most people are claiming as work - even though this wasn't the intent of the contest at all.

1. Those people can easily get free gifts now.
2. They ruin the global achievements stats.
3. They easily get free items for Team Fortress 2. I realize that there are servers for it, but those must be blocked as well.
4. They can get achievements for games not available in their region.
And, of course, it's against the EULA, as you may have noticed.

It would be morally understandable if someone used SAM to get one achievement they've already got but it didn't count for some reason. Still against the EULA, but understandable.

Look at my screenshot here (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27479300&postcount=3). Nothing wrong with that, huh?

Again, it's like instantly getting unlimited amounts of gold and best armor sets in a game like World of Warcraft. People spend months getting to it, but others do nothing and get the same stuff, then pretend they're as experienced and valued as players.

Phobix
12-27-2011, 07:36 AM
1. Those people can easily get free gifts now.
2. They ruin the global achievements stats.
3. They easily get free items for Team Fortress 2. I realize that there are servers for it, but those must be blocked as well.
4. They can get achievements for games not available in their region.
And, of course, it's against the EULA, as you may have noticed.

It would be morally understandable if someone used SAM to get one achievement they've already got but it didn't count for some reason. Still against the EULA, but understandable.

Look at my screenshot here (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27479300&postcount=3). Nothing wrong with that, huh?

1. I don't get what this has to do with anything? Those are the "no purchase required" achievements Valve puts out. You're not supposed to pay for them. If you're talking about people with bandwidth caps.. I'm finding it hard to agree that those users should be punished.

2. People grinding, don't harm those stats? Save files?

3. Grinding can still easily get past this.

4. Ok this one is one I certainly do not get. How is it good that some achievements are region-locked - this is also assuming the game is F2P which makes the region locking even more confusing.

Sp3tZn4z
12-27-2011, 07:43 AM
This is implying that somehow getting an achievement affects other users of the game as opposed to using a hack that would affect other users. A nice leap of logic, but doesn't apply in this case. If you can somehow prove that me having achievement X in Half Life 2 prevents you from enjoying Half Life 2 as well, by all means prove it. :)

And no one is saying that people derive fun out of using this tool - only they are simply skipping the grinding that most people are doing. You can't honestly tell me you do achievements just to grind? You must get some fun out of it. Achievements are meant to provide goals after you've completed the game (or during - as is the case for most achievements nowadays), not for grinding. People are using this tool to simply skip the grinding that most people are claiming as work - even though this wasn't the intent of the contest at all.

And you are ignoring the "Epic Holiday Giveaway" and "The Great Gift Pile".

Aren't the people who use SAM comitting fraud atm if the achievements are related to the Holiday Event(s)?

MartinKhan
12-27-2011, 08:04 AM
Im not sure why people are soo upset.

Achievements are meant to be fun by providing a little bit of a challange for you. Every achievement soo far on this event is pretty easy with no more than an hour of work. If someone likes to skip that hour of playing a game he doesn't enjoy but spent money on it let him have the achievement. If someone is hurt by seeing someone else having done more achievements than him.. well, grow up. I would suggest to everyone that if ur level of skill is in doubt just go play some freekin' multiplayer game and own some "noobs" if that makes u happy&satisfied. But cmon don't whine about people finishing achievements with 1 click i know this bothers u just becouse of this event and event achievements are freekin' easy, some enjoy doing them others don't. If people don't have fun doing them but still payed good money for the games, then from my POV they deserve it(the achievment).

p.s. they might be just noobs.. if u look at them as handicaped players they deserve a 'cheat' :)

This is implying that somehow getting an achievement affects other users of the game as opposed to using a hack that would affect other users. A nice leap of logic, but doesn't apply in this case. If you can somehow prove that me having achievement X in Half Life 2 prevents you from enjoying Half Life 2 as well, by all means prove it. :)

And no one is saying that people derive fun out of using this tool - only they are simply skipping the grinding that most people are doing. You can't honestly tell me you do achievements just to grind? You must get some fun out of it. Achievements are meant to provide goals after you've completed the game (or during - as is the case for most achievements nowadays), not for grinding. People are using this tool to simply skip the grinding that most people are claiming as work - even though this wasn't the intent of the contest at all.

Let me put it this way. Let's suppose you have a friend called "X". You two go to college together. You study really hard and barely pass your exams, but, after 5 years of hard work, you get your degree. Now, "X" didn't study that hard, but he cheated in his exams, and had very good marks thanks to it, you knew that, but you never told the teachers for whatever reason. Now, career finished, both with your degrees, go looking for a job. "X" is istantly hired by one of the top companies in your country, while you're still looking for a job.

Doesn't sound so fair now? And before you come here saying "but he won't know anything and will do bad in his job!". Believe me, I've seen things like that happening and that last for years. A lot of teachers, for example, don't know almost anything (here in Argentina) about teaching. I even had a teacher who didn't had any degree, he was studying to become a lawyer.

p00hi
12-27-2011, 08:12 AM
Let me put it this way. Let's suppose you have a friend called "X". You two go to college together. You study really hard and barely pass your exams, but, after 5 years of hard work, you get your degree. Now, "X" didn't study that hard, but he cheated in his exams, and had very good marks thanks to it, you knew that, but you never told the teachers for whatever reason. Now, career finished, both with your degrees, go looking for a job. "X" is istantly hired by one of the top companies in your country, while you're still looking for a job.

Doesn't sound so fair now? And before you come here saying "but he won't know anything and will do bad in his job!". Believe me, I've seen things like that happening and that last for years. A lot of teachers, for example, don't know almost anything (here in Argentina) about teaching. I even had a teacher who didn't had any degree, he was studying to become a lawyer.

Your thingie does not apply here since people can only get a degree or they dont... either u have time and u finish or u dont have time and u finish what the prob. man?

Phobix
12-27-2011, 08:13 AM
And you are ignoring the "Epic Holiday Giveaway" and "The Great Gift Pile".

Aren't the people who use SAM comitting fraud atm if the achievements are related to the Holiday Event(s)?

I'm not ignoring it - the quoted post does not mention it. :)

I've already stated that the goal of the contest is to get people to buy the participating games and incite users to buy more from the dev/dlc/etc if they enjoy the game (similar to how the Portal 2 ARG worked for indie devs). And while this tool might stop some people from trying the game, it's far more likely that most people using the tool simply aren't interested in the game (i.e. many users aren't fans of CrimeCraft). People who are simply grinding through the game and not enjoying it are resulting in a loss for every party involved. The developer does not gain another customer, Valve loses bandwidth (pennies, but something) and the user wastes their time for an achievement in a game they do not like. Most users (single account*) using this tool are simply doing it to avoid the grind of completing achievements for games they do not like and they have no to intention of gaming Valve - they still have to own the game to be able to obtain the achievement.

IANAL so I can't really say anything about the fraud comment, but I think Valve would have a tough time proving that not downloading a free game is somehow fraud and resulted in a loss for them.

* users with multiple accounts should not be applied to this discussion as they are circumventing more than just the achievement system.

Let me put it this way. Let's suppose you have a friend called "X". You two go to college together. You study really hard and barely pass your exams, but, after 5 years of hard work, you get your degree. Now, "X" didn't study that hard, but he cheated in his exams, and had very good marks thanks to it, you knew that, but you never told the teachers for whatever reason. Now, career finished, both with your degrees, go looking for a job. "X" is istantly hired by one of the top companies in your country, while you're still looking for a job.

Doesn't sound so fair now? And before you come here saying "but he won't know anything and will do bad in his job!". Believe me, I've seen things like that happening and that last for years. A lot of teachers, for example, don't know almost anything (here in Argentina) about teaching. I even had a teacher who didn't had any degree, he was studying to become a lawyer.

More like someone put a sticker on their name tag, so you did as well. No one really cares, but both you and that person value the star.

_Budweiser_
12-27-2011, 08:21 AM
This whole tyhread seems to be nothing more than an excuse to just complain for complaining's sake.

"Rewards" as the OP called them, are given for unlocking achievements.
Using an achievement unlocker is a means to unlock those achievements. Other merthods include manually completing the criteria for the achievement.
The achievement(s) is(are) unlocked in both cases, so rewards are given. I don't see any reason why the 'reward' should not be given.

The rules are clearly stated, there's no mention of 'how' the achievements must be unlocked.
It seems to me, that anyone claiming 'unfairness' view the "Holiday Event" as some form of competition instead of it's actual nature as a promotion. As a marketing promotion, the important consideration is that the games for which thew Achievements are required, are purchased/licensed in order to link the achievements to an account. That's the key feature, the achievements themselves are secondary and largely unnecessary provided the game is purchased and the consumer base is growing.

MartinKhan
12-27-2011, 08:41 AM
This whole tyhread seems to be nothing more than an excuse to just complain for complaining's sake.

"Rewards" as the OP called them, are given for unlocking achievements.
Using an achievement unlocker is a means to unlock those achievements. Other merthods include manually completing the criteria for the achievement.
The achievement(s) is(are) unlocked in both cases, so rewards are given. I don't see any reason why the 'reward' should not be given.

The rules are clearly stated, there's no mention of 'how' the achievements must be unlocked.
It seems to me, that anyone claiming 'unfairness' view the "Holiday Event" as some form of competition instead of it's actual nature as a promotion. As a marketing promotion, the important consideration is that the games for which thew Achievements are required, are purchased/licensed in order to link the achievements to an account. That's the key feature, the achievements themselves are secondary and largely unnecessary provided the game is purchased and the consumer base is growing.

If that's the case, why doesn't Steam has a button that says "Unlock this Achievement"? Achievements are there to be achieved, not to be unlocked with an external program. And to Phobix, if someone doesn't like a certain game, he shouldn't play it and that's it. Look, I tried to get the Poker Night achievement, but it's luck based, and I found it hard to obtain, so I said "Well, I'll try to get the other games achievements, this one can wait!".

Agret
12-27-2011, 08:48 AM
Thing is people still have to pay for the game to be able to achieve the achievements, which means the marketing campaign is working. People talking about investments and stuff, one of the guidelines of the achievements for the holiday gift grab is that it must take 30 minutes or less to achieve so it's not like you have worked hard for years to get the achievement and someone else can get it. You get crap rewards for it. Nothing in-game, nothing that gives you an advantage.

The guy who said about TF2 items for free. Sure you get them free but they are worthless as everyone has them and they are first gen (so really old now, even more worthless) and the achievment items are untradable anyway.

Contest aside, do you really think it's fair for people to get all the achievements with a simple click, when you spent, let's say, 60 hours trying to get that last achievement you missed to have 100% in game X?
Nah not really fair but ultimately what's an achievement worth? You can't sell it or trade it, it's got no real value. The only value attached to it is sentimental. (With the exclusion of these event ones of course).

If someone has unlocked all of them in 1 second then they have deprived themselves of the ability to earn them again. You got the enjoyment of playing a game you liked more to perform some goals, so in the end they still lose out.

MartinKhan
12-27-2011, 08:51 AM
Thing is people still have to pay for the game to be able to achieve the achievements, which means the marketing campaign is working. People talking about investments and stuff, one of the guidelines of the achievements for the holiday gift grab is that it must take 30 minutes or less to achieve so it's not like you have worked hard for years to get the achievement and someone else can get it. You get crap rewards for it. Nothing in-game, nothing that gives you an advantage.

The guy who said about TF2 items for free. Sure you get them free but they are worthless as everyone has them and they are first gen (so really old now, even more worthless) and the achievment items are untradable anyway.

There are free achievements as well. Games that you don't have to pay for. That's the problem right now.

Agret
12-27-2011, 08:53 AM
I believe that'd only be a problem when people do multi-account hoarding. In which case they should be caught by running a scan for people from the same computer trading to the same account (steam has unique computer id) or same ip.

plastic_teacup
12-27-2011, 09:07 AM
I believe that'd only be a problem when people do multi-account hoarding. In which case they should be caught by running a scan for people from the same computer trading to the same account (steam has unique computer id) or same ip.

Well being that my spouse, my niece, and I all have our own Steam accounts and share the same 2 computers, this idea would suck for people who legitimately have multiple accounts.

Sp3tZn4z
12-27-2011, 09:07 AM
Which EULA?

I say that Valve should remove achievments for all games and start EULA rules on how people should use their games and in games achievements, that way everyone will be happy ...oh wait ,this is the internet and that is not possible .

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

And I've said this before:
This is from the Steam Subscriber Agreement under "5. ONLINE CONDUCT, CHEATING AND ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR"

Doesn't say anything about achievments in particular but the part I quoted is fairly broad and you might get banned if Valve thinks it's illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers.

Sp3tZn4z
12-27-2011, 09:39 AM
Thanks God Valve employees don't read all s*** on their forums.
What you say there is "Valve should invent new rules after you created an account ...that is like a retroactive law.

If Valve wants to allow all people to log in only once per day or else your accounts gets banned.

I work for money and if your ideas ban my account (IP ,Windows ID or God knows what other type of weird inventions you have there) that affects me more than if you cheat your achievments.

Lol you think I wrote the "Subscriber Agreement" then?

It's not "retroactive law", it's covering things they can't/didn't foresee, all types of Agreements try to do this as much as possible.

Btw, everyone with a or multiple steam accounts agreed to follow the "Subscriber Agreement".

MartinKhan
12-27-2011, 09:40 AM
Thanks God Valve employees don't read all s*** on their forums.
What you say there is "Valve should invent new rules after you created an account ...that is like a retroactive law.

What if Valve will want one day to allow all people to log in only once per day or else your accounts gets banned?

I work for money and if your ideas ban my account (IP ,Windows ID or God knows what other type of weird inventions you have there) that affects me more than if you cheat your achievments.

Well, the Suscriber Agreement you should have read when you created your account clearly states they can terminate your account for whatever reason they want.

Frankiller
12-27-2011, 09:59 AM
Achievements are uselees and should never be added to any game
the player must keep the goal of the game as his main target, always.

MartinKhan
12-27-2011, 10:50 AM
Then steam /valve must go bankrupt and the only right way is retail or piracy if dictatorship companies is what you want.

I hope some day they will ban your account just because they can .I'm sure you'll write here how fair is that.

Any place you sign for an account has that clause in their Suscriber Agreement, not only Steam, and it's perfectly legal.

DarkPhoenix966
12-27-2011, 11:30 AM
I've reported somebody who did this today:
http://i.imgur.com/F4ojd.jpg
I can only hope Valve do something about it, but it's unlikely.

this doesn't profe anything. MAYBE he has skills. how can we know?

MartinKhan
12-27-2011, 11:32 AM
this doesn't profe anything. MAYBE he has skills. how can we know?

You sure? How can he heal a million points in TF2 in one day? Or do a million points of burn damage? The Halloween achievements, which can only be achieved during Halloween?

t3haxle
12-27-2011, 11:42 AM
Most of the achievements are stupid tbh, they're not actually achievements or even success-based at all. Ie. the Frozen Synapse one. Why is it an achievement to finish with one unit left alive? Additionally I managed to do that and it still didn't show up on my achievement list.

_Budweiser_
12-28-2011, 02:06 PM
if someone doesn't like a certain game, he shouldn't play it and that's it.
Sounds like a real joyful comment for this time of year...

WHatever gives you the right to determine who should and shouldn't play games you sourpuss!

Ezekial
12-28-2011, 02:26 PM
I can only think of 1 thing from reading this thread: I don't care. I have not used SAM myself, but I am seriously considering it for Spiral Knights and other "free" games that I find unbearable to play.

Wizzler
12-28-2011, 02:34 PM
I've reported somebody who did this today:
http://i.imgur.com/F4ojd.jpg
I can only hope Valve do something about it, but it's unlikely.

Ive reported more than 1 player.

The support did nothing. I didnt get a response anyways.

Thats how the Steam-"Support" works.

Sysgen
12-28-2011, 11:13 PM
Valves business is selling games. Since you cant use SAM on a game you don't own that means you have to buy the game. That's is all Valve cares about. Personally I'm not using it since I don't use anything not Steam authorized on my prized Steam account. If Valve cares they will build some security into their achievements server like time checks and the like or going forward encrypting all achievements. This is all just a big deal over nothing that will be of no use on new games released in the future.

Azithromycin
12-28-2011, 11:17 PM
This has always happened, will until valve fixes it unfortunately.
Also forgive my last post, I have a huge fever and I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Rises
12-29-2011, 12:38 AM
I believe that'd only be a problem when people do multi-account hoarding. In which case they should be caught by running a scan for people from the same computer trading to the same account (steam has unique computer id) or same ip. Keep unfairly, a chance to become an epic hand very minimal..

Ganger
12-29-2011, 12:44 AM
Anyone using the SAM should be VAC banned as its unfair to other users who don't cheat their way to getting the achievements. Valve should look into this and take action agaisnt those that cheat the system.

Wolfrip_Sixshot
12-29-2011, 03:26 AM
Anyone using the SAM should be VAC banned as its unfair to other users who don't cheat their way to getting the achievements. Valve should look into this and take action agaisnt those that cheat the system.

You better start retro-active bans for everyone who has ever got any achievement through a game bug, glitch or exploit. You can't just ban people for xmas achievements when players have been using game glitches to get achievements for years.

Would anyone be left on steam? :P

What about all the achievements which are impossible due to game bugs? or you can't do unless you played the game for weeks BEFORE the holidays to level up high enough to do it? Dungeon Defenders anyone?

I can't even do the Orcs must die achievement because the game will not load past the first screen. I bought the game to get the achievement yet game bugs prevent me from ever getting it. No im not going to do anything to gain achievements outside the game but what if someone else did? You really think they should be banned?

I'm sorry but i disagree with outright banning anyone who used any unfair tactic to complete a achievement. There are plenty of people who have spent a few hundred Ģ$ on their steam accounts, i don't see how banning them over a bit of coal that 90% of the time is rather useless is fair or even sane.

I don't cheat. Check my achievements :P but i woulden't want to see anyone vac banned because they imported a save for a game achievement they coulden't do. Maybe for people who are blantantly abusing the system with 10+ accounts and a achievement hack but i woulden't want to see the average steam user fall under the chopping block.

MrPancakesFatty
12-29-2011, 03:37 AM
I used the achievement manager once in Left 4 Dead 2, I could never do Hard Rain on expert, and when I finally did, I lost connection to Steam so I never got the achievement, so I used the SAM Achievement manager to unlock it...

Seems fair to me.

exohassan
12-29-2011, 04:45 AM
this is very unfair ... !! :(((

MartinKhan
12-29-2011, 09:06 AM
You better start retro-active bans for everyone who has ever got any achievement through a game bug, glitch or exploit. You can't just ban people for xmas achievements when players have been using game glitches to get achievements for years.

Would anyone be left on steam? :P

What about all the achievements which are impossible due to game bugs? or you can't do unless you played the game for weeks BEFORE the holidays to level up high enough to do it? Dungeon Defenders anyone?

I can't even do the Orcs must die achievement because the game will not load past the first screen. I bought the game to get the achievement yet game bugs prevent me from ever getting it. No im not going to do anything to gain achievements outside the game but what if someone else did? You really think they should be banned?

I'm sorry but i disagree with outright banning anyone who used any unfair tactic to complete a achievement. There are plenty of people who have spent a few hundred Ģ$ on their steam accounts, i don't see how banning them over a bit of coal that 90% of the time is rather useless is fair or even sane.

I don't cheat. Check my achievements :P but i woulden't want to see anyone vac banned because they imported a save for a game achievement they coulden't do. Maybe for people who are blantantly abusing the system with 10+ accounts and a achievement hack but i woulden't want to see the average steam user fall under the chopping block.

Remove the event and think about it. If there was no event, why would they cheat for the achievements? The problem here is people cheating to get the achievements, instead of playing the games. If the game doesn't work for you, well, that's bad luck I guess. CrimeCraft won't load for me and I won't cheat just for an achievement.

Wolfrip_Sixshot
12-29-2011, 10:12 AM
Remove the event and think about it. If there was no event, why would they cheat for the achievements? The problem here is people cheating to get the achievements, instead of playing the games. If the game doesn't work for you, well, that's bad luck I guess. CrimeCraft won't load for me and I won't cheat just for an achievement.

Many players have and always will use any exploit, bug or glitch to get ahead. Even just to get a useless achievement that has nothing to do with a holiday event. The event isn't to blame.

I don't use bugs or exploits but im not going to call for people who do to lose a few hundred dollas worth of steam games because they dont adhere to my principles.

Hackers on the other hand i have no sympathy for as they ruin games online for other gamers.

max_007
12-29-2011, 10:50 AM
i know some servers where u dont need use achiviement manager , i have seen in modded tf 2 server players to type !givemeall and than player got all achiviements ...

Ganger
12-29-2011, 11:34 AM
You better start retro-active bans for everyone who has ever got any achievement through a game bug, glitch or exploit. You can't just ban people for xmas achievements when players have been using game glitches to get achievements for years.

I should of made myself more clear really, I meant for the christmas event. It doesn't matter if people use SAM to unlock achievements because it affects nobody but with events like this it does. Unlocking achievements to get coal or a free prize is just plain wrong.

There are people on the trading forums trading hundered of coals for game. How did they come across so much coal in the first place? Its just seems really unfair for steam users who are not using the SAM software to gain all the achievements. One thing valve should of done is make coal non-tradable.

Donutterē
12-29-2011, 11:39 AM
There are people on the trading forums trading hundered of coals for game. How did they come across so much coal in the first place? Its just seems really unfair for steam users who are not using the SAM software to gain all the achievements. One thing valve should of done is make coal non-tradable.

People have been buying coal for IRL money in games bought on steam.

kalxd
12-29-2011, 11:59 AM
If the people get banned for that steam lost a lot of money, because the gamers with the banned accounts never, NEVER return to steam :s
the just cause is just remove the event and finish , if they ban the accouns with bought games maybe the people can report steam for that, imagine... a lot of people reporting steam, is not good for them :s

MartinKhan
12-29-2011, 01:33 PM
If the people get banned for that steam lost a lot of money, because the gamers with the banned accounts never, NEVER return to steam :s
the just cause is just remove the event and finish , if they ban the accouns with bought games maybe the people can report steam for that, imagine... a lot of people reporting steam, is not good for them :s

According to Steam TOS, which everyone should read when making an account, they can terminate your account for whatever reason they want.

cr7camiao
12-29-2011, 01:43 PM
According to Steam TOS, which everyone should read when making an account, they can terminate your account for whatever reason they want.

Those online TOS are useless when in judgement.

MartinKhan
12-29-2011, 01:46 PM
Those online TOS are useless when in judgement.

It's a contract you agreed to. Simple as that. You break the contract rules, the contract gets canceled.

kalxd
12-29-2011, 02:54 PM
but if you lost money for that you can report the page where you buy the game for that and he lost money for that, ad if the people do that (just all the banneds, if they are a lot ) in this case steam canīt do anything , just return the accounts or the money(they prefer the accounts ..)
its just one commentary, peacefull :P

MartinKhan
12-29-2011, 03:01 PM
but if you lost money for that you can report the page where you buy the game for that and he lost money for that, ad if the people do that (just all the banneds, if they are a lot ) in this case steam canīt do anything , just return the accounts or the money(they prefer the accounts ..)
its just one commentary, peacefull :P

No, it doesn't work that way. When you create a Steam account (or an account in any other internet service, like Origin, for example), there's always a clause that says something along the lines "We can terminate your account for any reason". You agreed to that, so in court, you can't say "I paid them money and now they banned me!". In fact, if you were caught cheating in these kind of events, that's a perfect reason to ban your account. It doesn't matter if you paid money, you agreed to a "contract" before that, and you should have respected that contract.

Ganger
12-30-2011, 01:47 AM
Those online TOS are useless when in judgement.

Thats not true, lots of lawsuits are bought to court every year about TOS and all the cases are either dropped or throw out early (the ones we know about). I also suspect dozens of lawsuits are not even made public.

_Budweiser_
12-30-2011, 08:34 AM
Everyone needs to chill out.
For those making assumptions about lawsuits and agreements, consider that a large paert of the legitimacy of such agreements is partaken by the forming of the contract itself. It's much harder to claim against a contract, even unfair ones, once the contract has been agreed by both parties exccept in cases where one party has defaulted.

The Accounts are held on servers owned by Valve, the resources are owned by Valve. All that the customer has paid for are specific licenses for games, media or other software/code. In the event of an account being 'disabled', your rights to the game license are unaffected unless you breach those too (Again, ToS that have been agreed to). However, if such a license requires a Steam account to which the game is linked, it wont be of much use, although nobody else can make use of that license.

The clause that states Valve Reserve rights to terminate accounts or account features/priviledges is their only safeguard for acts of fraud or vandalism and other unwanted behaviours. It's unlikely and indeed quesitonable that they would invoke such practice "because they can", but the clause is necessary to protect the company (and potentially customers' too) interest should unforseen or undocumented situations arise. For example, someone found to be hacking or attempting to hack Account/Payment Information on Valve servers - I believe Valve would be justified in terminating such an account.

There are cases of lawsuits being made against certain license agreements, and that some such agreements have been deemed to be noit legally sound, and therrefore non-binding, however, this cannot be assumed for all. They are contracts and if you don't like or agree with them, you should never agree to them in the first place.

This is all completely irrelevant to the topic, though, which concerns the Steam Achievement Manager with respect to the 'rewards' granted by the current promotion. It has already been answered to, people are still getting their reward because there is nothing in the conditions that prevents it: http://store.steampowered.com/eula/2011_holidaysale_epicholidaygiveaway

Donutterē
12-30-2011, 09:27 AM
^ This plus you have to own the games in order to get the reward for said games/s they do nothing but cheat themselves out of the enjoyment of actually playing games.

kalxd
12-30-2011, 10:09 AM
but i see in the(a lot pile of people with suspended accounts)
people who jsut enter to the second account they have and do nothing
this is reasonable?
this event is jsut for ban accounts and get people to buy again games , i say that since the games are not really hard to get with this event and this is strange, very strange, see all the things , and talk about it
strange no?

MartinKhan
12-30-2011, 10:13 AM
but i see in the(a lot pile of people with suspended accounts)
people who jsut enter to the second account they have and do nothing
this is reasonable?
this event is jsut for ban accounts and get people to buy again games , i say that since the games are not really hard to get with this event and this is strange, very strange, see all the things , and talk about it
strange no?

No, the people getting banned are those with lots of alternate accounts, activated with a $0.01 Humble Indie Bundle, that use them to farm coal, so they can increase their chances to win the contest.

~SW
12-30-2011, 10:20 AM
Someone posted this in a thread complaining about how they were disabled: http://i.imgur.com/ll03t.png

Donutterē
12-30-2011, 10:43 AM
Someone posted this in a thread complaining about how they were disabled: http://i.imgur.com/ll03t.png

That image has been floating around a while now, I've seen two troll posts claiming to of been banned posting the same image.

That one in particular came from a Russian forum from a guy who had 200-300 accounts.

huhy
12-30-2011, 10:44 AM
Steam Achievement Manager has been working for like um 5 years? If i'm wrong you can correct me. I hope that valve is going to take care of that program, but what if another program like SAM will be created once again? You can't like stop those creators from making these kind of programs? Is it possible to like make sure that STEAM program blocks all these Steam Achievement managers and what not.

lemenjuice
12-31-2011, 01:58 AM
Steam Achievement Manager has been working for like um 5 years? If i'm wrong you can correct me. I hope that valve is going to take care of that program, but what if another program like SAM will be created once again? You can't like stop those creators from making these kind of programs? Is it possible to like make sure that STEAM program blocks all these Steam Achievement managers and what not.

Orangebox was released for 4 years i believe, and that's when steamworks achievements got introduced i believe.

Anyways when people say that increace chance for those who use SAM are ridicilous. It does not increace their chance in any way possible.

So you i did 12 achievements, and other person did 12 achievements with SAM, with us both getting coal with every achievement. What you're saying he magicly has higher chance of winning than i am.

Sorry, but math doesn't work that way.


If you want to be concerned about something, be concerned about people creating multiple accounts, just for the sale.

Fear Itself
12-31-2011, 10:19 PM
Scammers haven't lost just yet:
http://s017.radikal.ru/i444/1112/90/06ae3fab4b52.jpg
The word in the alley is that when Steam ban them for the farming they can still contact the support and easily get their account unbanned by whining a little.
And if you wonder, it's not just a single case.

NintendoToad
12-31-2011, 10:57 PM
"So you [and I both] did 12 achievements, and [the] other person did 12 achievements with SAM, with us both getting coal with every achievement. What you're saying he magicly has higher chance of winning than [I] am."

Fair point, except for it doesn't cover all the angles. (Commence pedantic nitpicking, wahoo!)
Say I'm on vacation for 2 weeks. Say I'm 14 years old and officially able to digitally agree to the Steam Subscriber Agreement (and did so a couple weeks back), but not legally able to opt out of said vacation. I had no Internet on vacation. Suddenly, OH. MY. GOD. Free "games" everywhere for doing achievements. I only have 1 or 2 days to do the winter event, but you've had 2 weeks. One could argue that's unfair, but at the same time, one could argue that it's unfair for me to do in 2 days what you did in 2 weeks.

The problem with this argument (the entire Steam Achievement Manager argument, not your particular argument) is that it simply won't end unless the means of execution (in this case, the Steam Achievement Manager) are stopped. (If you can protect the Spiral Knights achievements, then why not all of them?) There are so many ways to argue this, any debate team would have a field day if they got into this thread. We could argue from the perspective of the people with 300+ accounts (although they don't have any way to win - the ignorance clause doesn't apply because VALVe has no problem contacting the authorities, thank heavens.) We could argue from the hardcore gamer's perspective, who is "pro" enough to get all of the achievements and doesn't think it's fair that the unskilled don't need to work at getting the achievements. We could argue from the n00b's perspective, who don't want to spend 7 hours getting 16 achievements so they can get a -25% VALVe coupon. We could argue from VALVe's perspective (which is kind of confusing looking at all the screenshots from VALVe support).

...On a somewhat unrelated note, I think we should just focus on killing all the Coal farmers.

Powerlord
01-01-2012, 02:03 AM
As for you saying it's "illegal", I'd like to see where in the TOS or EULA or whatever it says it's illegal or against the rules. I'm not saying it isn't I'm just curious if there's some documentation to back up these claims.

It is against the contest rules (http://store.steampowered.com/eula/2011_holidaysale_epicholidaygiveaway). You have read the rules right?

Here are the appropriate sections:

(a) Holiday Sales Objectives. To enter, each user must complete a Holiday Sales Objective (“Objective”) while logged in to a Steam account that has at least one (1) purchased item (a game purchased at a store then activated via CD key, or a game purchased from Steam, or a free-to-play game from Steam with items purchased). The task corresponding to an Objective will be revealed each day of the Holiday Sale Period at 10:00 am Pacific Standard Time and are listed here.

and

(d) Entries generated by script, macro or other automated means will be void. Sponsor is not responsible for misdirected, incomplete, lost, late, illegible, undelivered, inaccurate or delayed entries, or for technical, hardware, or software failures of any kind, lost or unavailable network connections, or failed, incomplete, garbled or delayed computer transmissions or other errors or problems that may limit or affect a person’s ability to participate in the Objectives or the Epic Holiday Giveaway. In the event of sabotage, acts of God, terrorism or threats thereof, computer virus or other events or causes beyond the Sponsor’s control, which corrupt the integrity, administration, security or proper operation of the Objectives or the Epic Holiday Giveaway, Sponsor reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to modify, cancel or suspend the Holiday Sale Period, Objectives or the Epic Holiday Giveaway. In the event of cancellation, Sponsor reserves the right to award prizes from among all eligible, non-suspect entries received prior to the event requiring such cancellation. False or deceptive entries or acts will render the entrant ineligible.

There is an alternate way to enter, but it involves sending a separate postcard to Valve for each and every achievement:

(c) Alternate Entry. To manually enter for both Objectives prizes and the Epic Holiday Giveaway, each eligible entrant must print his or her name, address, city, state, country, postal code, email address, Steam account name, and telephone number, as well as the name of the Objective that the entry is for, on a self-addressed 4”x6” note card and mail the completed form to: Valve Corporation, P.O. Box 1688, Bellevue, WA 98009-1688. Note cards may be mailed as postcards or in envelopes. No e-mailed or faxed alternate entries are eligible. Facsimiles, photocopies or mechanical reproductions of entries will be void. An alternate entry must be postmarked during the Holiday Sale Period to be eligible. Each alternate entry must be postmarked during the Holiday Sales Period and no earlier than the date on which the applicable Objective was revealed. Alternate entries received after January 9, 2012 will not be eligible. Each user may submit one alternate entry per Objective. Proof of sending or submitting an alternate entry is not proof of receipt of such alternate entry. Coal received as a result of the alternate entry process cannot be redeemed as a Gift since the drawing is after the end of the Holiday Sale Period, and such Coal will only be treated as entries to the Sweepstakes.

MithranArkanere
01-01-2012, 09:12 AM
It's not legal, and if they detect it, you'll pretty much get at least VAC banned, and maybe even have the account suspended.

But depending on the game, it may be hard to detect.

There are other ways to cheat. For example, some games will store achievements in savegames, when you load the savegame, you'll get all the achievements unlocked in that savegame instantly.

All in all, achievements are for oneself. If you cheat to get them, you lose the feel you get when you get them on your own.

The only real problem is achievements for events events.
People still have to buy the game, so developers are not really losing anything. It's only unfair for the rest of the players.

At least, thanks to the secure server-side achievements some games have, it's literally impossible to cheat in all games.
Maybe they should implement them in more games.

Cosinus P. W.
01-01-2012, 09:43 AM
It worked, and a lot of people using it, completed achievements within seconds while other honest players spend huge time on some difficult achievements from Tokitori or super meat boy, and got their awards with no risk at all. That's also the reason why some coal farmers with HUGE numbers of accounts can get their gifts so quickly
while other honest players spend huge time on some difficult achievements from Tokitori or super meat boy, and got their awards with no risk at all.
difficult achievements from Tokitori or super meat boy, and got their awards
Tokitori

lolwat

MindlessMachina
01-01-2012, 09:45 AM
WHY DID PEOPLE THAT USED SAVED GAMES GET THEIR REWARDS???!

What about the people that cheesed the TF2, L4D2, and CS achievements??

I demand justice and righteousness in the world!

camelkaze
01-02-2012, 07:34 PM
Ban everyone who achieved Play Universe Sandbox for a year, it's impossible since it's not been released a year ago =)

gamezMk
01-02-2012, 08:13 PM
Was that even in the achievements for this holiday list? If not, why are you here? This topic is about getting an unfair advantage in an event. If that guy only got the achievement because he wanted it, with no other reward, why are you against him? It's his business, imo.

HavelockFS
01-02-2012, 10:08 PM
Orange ISP gives their customers dynamic IPs which can be used by many people so you can have my IP if I disconnect.Would you want my and your account to get banned for IPs?It seems you want that.

That is why steam should ban by MAC address instead. MAC address identify each unique machine unless you spoof it.

Jacowboy
01-03-2012, 02:21 AM
I dunno... I think it's about the same as using Youtube for solutions, or guides and things like that to rush the achievements...

I think, the important thing for valve AND the participant publishers was to sell more games via the achievement contest... and wether anyone used a savegame, a solution, a program, or did them themselves, is pretty much irrelevant, as long as you bought the game.

I suppose that if there were 78 achievements in total, Valve must've based their number of gifts by calculating that every acive count could (possibly, if not probably) unlock the 78, and thus have enough gifts for that possibility.

Exploiting the multiple counts and the "free" achievements is another matter... The problem was that calculation didn't include the possibility of "coal farming" and "account spamming"... thus the gifts in the pile went too quickly, and a lot of people got the shaft.

I say: Priorities... Using SAM or a savegame file is not really that much of a big deal, as long as it was on your main (and only) account, with the games you purchased. They should be hunting down the multiple account owners and those that pillaged the gift pile and screwed everyone else. But it seems they're doing it, so we'll see...

I'm more interested to know what will happen with the games that will be confiscated from the banned and multiple accounts...

Sjeng
01-03-2012, 02:59 AM
I don't care how people got their achievements really, as long as it's on their main account.
I'm more concerned about people having multiple accounts with a cheap 0,50ct game on it, farming coal/coupons/gifts. That's just unfair to others.

Esperologist
01-03-2012, 03:20 AM
As a note, it is possible for Steam to notice cheating through a give achievment program... it currently tracks when achievements are given.
If a player gets every acheivement in a game within a 1 minute period, either somebody messed up or that person hacked.
If someone gets all achievements available in 10 games within an hour, they definetly hacked.

Sure there are loopholes... for example, copy the achievements list of another player, including the time achieved... however, if 50+ people have the exact same achievements, all achieved at the exact same time for 20+ games... well, I have better odds of winning the lottery, and I don't buy tickets.

Sjeng
01-03-2012, 03:40 AM
Apart from the gift achievements, I don't see why people would cheat achievements anyway... They're made to give you a sense of satisfaction from achieving something in your games.
I love gaining something by actually doing it the right way. I wouldn't want to spoil that fun.

Legitti
01-03-2012, 05:21 PM
You guys are morons, of course it's not vac bannable. All it does it modify client files.

tecmirC
01-03-2012, 05:24 PM
That is why steam should ban by MAC address instead. MAC address identify each unique machine unless you spoof it.And if I sell my motherboard or my network card to someone else? Don't be silly.

localhost
01-03-2012, 05:30 PM
Why you crying and complaning about it.

They not harming you. I much dont cares about if he got all achievment or not.

MartinKhan
01-04-2012, 10:09 AM
Why you crying and complaning about it.

They not harming you. I much dont cares about if he got all achievment or not.

The problem isn't them getting the achievements without any effort, the problem was them getting the reward achievements during the Holiday Sale.

striderx
01-04-2012, 12:33 PM
There is technically no reason for them to ban them, unless they do it on a VAC server, in which case they are liable simply for being morons and its not legal to edit files under a protection act such as that, if you edit off of it, then it is ultimately valves problem since they did not integrate VAC throughout the entire game, which no doubt would be a silly effort.

Unlike Xbox or PS3, there is no static reward for gaining the achievement's beyond actually getting them, if Valve wants to do a competition around achievements, then they already realise the issue at hand and do not care.

Take TF2 for example, mods can make Achievements much easier to do and by that i dont simply mean ones made for getting them, so if Valve punished achievement cheaters, they would have to stamp down on one of the main reasons valve is so popular...TF2 itself once a mod, after all.

Ultimately though, its the players decision, if he/she wants to work for items which are connected to achievements (a horrific idea by valve, which changed after a few updates) or if he/she feels that it detracts from their experience, it is their choice to bypass valves decision.

MartinKhan
01-04-2012, 12:35 PM
There is technically no reason for them to ban them, unless they do it on a VAC server, in which case they are liable simply for being morons and its not legal to edit files under a protection act such as that, if you edit off of it, then it is ultimately valves problem since they did not integrate VAC throughout the entire game, which no doubt would be a silly effort.

Unlike Xbox or PS3, there is no static reward for gaining the achievement's beyond actually getting them, if Valve wants to do a competition around achievements, then they already realise the issue at hand and do not care.

Take TF2 for example, mods can make Achievements much easier to do and by that i dont simply mean ones made for getting them, so if Valve punished achievement cheaters, they would have to stamp down on one of the main reasons valve is so popular...TF2 itself once a mod, after all.

Ultimately though, its the players decision, if he/she wants to work for items which are connected to achievements (a horrific idea by valve, which changed after a few updates) or if he/she feels that it detracts from their experience, it is their choice to bypass valves decision.

There was a reward: coals, coupons or games. This thread was started during the Holiday Sale and that's the problem, people who cheated the system to win more stuff.

Also, TF2 was never a mod, TFC was, but its developers where hired by VALVe and made TFC a standalone title. They later developed TF2 as a full game, not a mod.

lemenjuice
01-04-2012, 02:18 PM
The problem isn't them getting the achievements without any effort, the problem was them getting the reward achievements during the Holiday Sale.

Yet the way achievement was got doesn't give any unfair advantage.

For example think about people that have bandwith caps (yes i've seen people who complain on spuf about it), and they don't have a game like tf2 installed, and they already reached the month limit, what are they suppose to do? They are getting unfair disadvantage, while SAM just makes them equal to others who can do it.

In any case event is over, people can shut it already.

Mu6o
01-04-2012, 02:21 PM
Some cheat, they win.
I didn't cheat... I didn't win, fair enough.

DarkWolf80s
01-04-2012, 02:25 PM
They should be banned from the future achievement-related community events.These cheaters shouldn't get reward for their cheating, this will totally spoil the gaming community!

Seriously... You wanted to place a rule that bans people from their accounts just because they used a cheat to get an achievement? In that case other gaming services like SONY and MICROSOFT should do the same thing for their service. They might as well ban people just using a simple given code like X UP DOWN DOWN or of they finished a game and unlocked infinite ammo and played the game again just to get a stupid achievement of killing 50 zombies in a single shot with a rocket launcher.

I know you mean well but even within the game there are cheats like GTA or Resident Evil 5, you would still be able to use those in game cheats to unlock achievements that can't be done.

So what if I cheated on a game, all I wanted to do is get that achievement so I can show it off on my Facebook page. All's fair in love and war.

Zylnor
01-04-2012, 02:40 PM
^ This plus you have to own the games in order to get the reward for said games/s they do nothing but cheat themselves out of the enjoyment of actually playing games.

howso? unless they are only playing games to get achievements. from your post it seems like people can only enjoy games if there is achievements with them when thats not the case. i dont see how getting all the achievements with one click means someone cant play/enjoy the game normally. they just wont get achievements when they play.

Jsos
01-07-2012, 11:56 PM
It worked, and a lot of people using it, completed achievements within seconds while other honest players spend huge time on some difficult achievements from Tokitori or super meat boy

I tried the super meat boy achievement...then I quit. Just saying.

DarkLite123
01-08-2012, 03:11 AM
Seriously... You wanted to place a rule that bans people from their accounts just because they used a cheat to get an achievement? In that case other gaming services like SONY and MICROSOFT should do the same thing for their service. They might as well ban people just using a simple given code like X UP DOWN DOWN or of they finished a game and unlocked infinite ammo and played the game again just to get a stupid achievement of killing 50 zombies in a single shot with a rocket launcher.

You realise that Microsoft ban your account if you cheat for achievements, right?

And there's a difference between built-in cheats like console commands (most of which usually disable achievements when used), and an external program where you click a button and every achievement is unlocked.

If it was up to me, using SAM would trigger a ban from the Steam Community and reset all of your achievements. That way, they can still play games and everything, but the section of Steam they tried to hack is made inaccessible to them.

sketchblo
01-08-2012, 05:36 AM
I've reported somebody who did this today:
http://i.imgur.com/F4ojd.jpg
I can only hope Valve do something about it, but it's unlikely.

so you report your friends.. wow your such a great friend! :rolleyes:

EddieZaic
01-09-2012, 04:18 PM
Some people actually have lifes but still care about events on Steam, but don't have time to sit all day and play indie games.

Strykerraven
01-09-2012, 11:22 PM
Some people actually have lifes but still care about events on Steam, but don't have time to sit all day and play indie games.

So you're basically saying that you're above everyone else whom completed the goals legitimately because you think you have a life? Welcome to the oldest joke on the internet. Hint: Nothing was entitled to you to begin with.

I doubt steam will do anything about those that had to decided to cheat, especially this long after but it would be hilarious.

MartinKhan
01-10-2012, 04:29 AM
Some people actually have lifes but still care about events on Steam, but don't have time to sit all day and play indie games.

Eh... I do have a life. Fortunately, I was on holiday during the event. I don't think that's an excuse for cheating.

BloodyRose
02-10-2012, 12:43 AM
so you report your friends.. wow your such a great friend! :rolleyes:

What do you think of people who would report their friend to the police if the person intentionally murdered someone? It's not the best example. I know. The point is that cheating is also a violation that needs to be reported, though. And yes, it's also harmful to the community. It breaks the general stats and lets the person be on the same level with those who have put a lot of effort into achieving something on their own. It's exactly like using a wallhack to be on the same level with experienced players.

Also, not everyone on your friend list is a friend of yours. Many are just people you keep to play with. It's different.
I try to report anyone whose actions considerably affect the community as a whole, in a bad way. Unlike other people who would only report someone because they hate them and want to ruin their life, I try to be unbiased.

dvsilverwing
02-10-2012, 12:59 PM
Stop using the "fair" argument against SAM, please, it's really not a valid argument when it comes down to it. You have an equal opportunity to choose whether or not you wish to use SAM or not, the program does not discriminate against who can use it and the game doesn't discriminate against those who choose to earn the achievements. Everyone has the equal ability to either work their way to the achievements or unlock them immediately, so it is fair. I'm not saying it's not dishonest, I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, and I'm not telling you to do either or, but I am telling you it is fair.

Halodude888
02-12-2012, 07:01 PM
To be honest, I didn't know you could hack Steam achievements until I read this post, and even now I still prefer working for them anyway.

At least this SAM tool doesn't detriment the happiness of others by hacking them in some way or form (not supporting SAM, mind), but it does defeat the point of implementing achievements in the first place XD

asperger's
02-12-2012, 08:15 PM
http://i.imgur.com/Dfjs0.gif
^^ that's literally everyone crying about steam achievement manager lmao

SRQ
02-12-2012, 08:16 PM
http://i.imgur.com/znxlr.gif
^^ that's literally everyone crying about steam achievement manager lmao

That's not nice.

Esperologist
02-15-2012, 11:51 PM
The point to achievements is to use as a way of showing other players what the person is capable of. Granted, some games have lame achievements in them, but in a way they prove that the person at least figured out how to play. (ex: Civ5 - achieve building a second city.)

Yes, during a contest it isn't fair, because they are getting something they didn't earn. However, for the community as a whole, it does some damage.

Let's say I got myself Call of Duty and then hacked to give myself an achievement for 50 kill streak or something (I have no idea, since I don't play CoD).
Now, someone invites me into their game on their team expecting me to be some pro CoD player, when infact I would be a total newb... and even possibly a n00b.

That is where I really have the problem. Also, it throws the stats off for comparing to see how many others have the stat.
Let's say I get some near impossible achievement through shear luck, and no one has actuallly earned the achievement. I'd be the only person with it, but I check the stats and really 107 people have it, only 106 of them hacked it. Now that is a rip off for what could be an awesome feeling for me, only I'd never know.

If I made a steam game, I'd put in an achievement that could not be earned in game at all. And I'd call it, "I hacked Steam for this achievement!"
Just so anyone using a blanket hack would let people know so they don't expect them to actually be any good as a player.

Coffeephile2
02-16-2012, 01:57 AM
But cant you see that achievements on PC are purely for your fun and not competition? On PC you have always so many ways to hack/cheat that you would NEVER know if person really got their achievement fair. Look at Skyrim, you can use cheats AND get achievements.

You want achievements that are showing to others what are you capable of? BUY XBOX360

MartinKhan
02-16-2012, 12:44 PM
But cant you see that achievements on PC are purely for your fun and not competition? On PC you have always so many ways to hack/cheat that you would NEVER know if person really got their achievement fair. Look at Skyrim, you can use cheats AND get achievements.

You want achievements that are showing to others what are you capable of? BUY XBOX360

Eh, no. If the system is here, it should work here. There's no need for us to look somewhere else for something that we already have.

Dalek22
02-16-2012, 03:47 PM
It's only achievements, it's not like they're cheating in multiplayer. If they want to ruin getting their achievements and looking like a skill-less player then thats their problem.

Miirraa
02-17-2012, 05:27 PM
I agree

=HCFS=Discoman
04-29-2012, 03:32 PM
But cant you see that achievements on PC are purely for your fun and not competition? On PC you have always so many ways to hack/cheat that you would NEVER know if person really got their achievement fair. Look at Skyrim, you can use cheats AND get achievements.

You want achievements that are showing to others what are you capable of? BUY XBOX360

+1
On Xbox, achievements give you the points which can be used to buy things.
On steam, achievements do nothing. In tf2 they give you untradeable items that you get via random drop anyways. In spiral knights one gives you an item in tf2 that again can't be traded.
Big whoop if someone uses SAM to get some virtual items that they then can't trade. These achievements are just for personal satisfaction. Sure, it would be less fulfilling to SAM them then to actually earn them....
But again, just glitches and secrets in the game can make some really easy, such as the one l4d2 survival map having an invisible ladder to an area the zombies can't really get to. Sure, watch out for smokers and spitters, but you are safe from the rest.
How is that fair compared to being on the ground and surviving, rather than finding a secret and winning that way?
If the achievements actually did something, then it would be a problem. But honestly, I can state my own experience: I have AVP 2010 on steam, none of the multi player achievements done. Rebellion has left that game, so there is no more multi player. It was usually horribly laggy, so when it was up, I could barely play. Now, I could use SAM to get the achievements that can no longer be had and earn the rest if the single player ones honestly, or earn the single player ones honestly and never get the multi player ones because it is now impossible.
Should someone honestly be totally screwed out of getting an achievement that has no value beyond personal because the game isn't supported? In such a case, there is no other way.
It's at that point like when people say something can be pirated because it has been out of production for years and will never be made again. Basically,you say that because the honest way is not possible, they shouldn't be allowed to see a 100% on that game.
I've got some great books that have been out of print and out of copyright for over 50 years that I was going to share, but I decided against it.

P.s. I don't actually like AVP 2010 enough to bother with achievements, honest or SAM'd.

Donutterē
04-30-2012, 04:55 AM
+1
On Xbox, achievements give you the points which can be used to buy things.

You couldn't be any more wrong even if you tried. Gamerscore on Xbox 360 means nothing just like all the other games.

Although certain games like Trials HD, Trials Evolution, Halo Reach do have avatar props + items that do unlock with certain ones.

TheTrueOutcast
04-30-2012, 05:56 AM
Whats a Steam Achievement Manager?

Nightlock!
04-30-2012, 06:09 AM
You couldn't be any more wrong even if you tried. Gamerscore on Xbox 360 means nothing just like all the other games.

Although certain games like Trials HD, Trials Evolution, Halo Reach do have avatar props + items that do unlock with certain ones.

This
gamerscore=/=MS points

cylon
04-30-2012, 06:47 AM
But cant you see that achievements on PC are purely for your fun and not competition? On PC you have always so many ways to hack/cheat that you would NEVER know if person really got their achievement fair. Look at Skyrim, you can use cheats AND get achievements.

You want achievements that are showing to others what are you capable of? BUY XBOX360

Was this thread not started when the summer camp (or winter sale) was on when through achivements in games you could win FREE GAMES and money off tokens and get an entry into prize draws?

In these circumstances they are NOT for fun, they are for material gain. No-one cares if Little Joe gets all the TF2 achivements normally, but when it's possibly reducing your chances of winning a prize, etc. That's when people start to take notice and get annoyed.

Kyle07
08-10-2012, 02:19 PM
I've reported somebody who did this today:
http://i.imgur.com/F4ojd.jpg
I can only hope Valve do something about it, but it's unlikely.

100% cheat. To get all achievements in BIT.TRIP RUNNER and Jamestown in onw day is for a newbie impossible! These are really hard games. I know that I will never get all achievements in one of those games.

Genoard
08-11-2012, 09:20 AM
+1 Valve, do something about S.A.M.

Sandoooooo
08-11-2012, 09:43 AM
Valve isn't allowed to ban these people since there's no rule against that.

That's sucks though.

Captain Morti
08-11-2012, 09:53 AM
100% cheat. To get all achievements in BIT.TRIP RUNNER and Jamestown in onw day is for a newbie impossible! These are really hard games. I know that I will never get all achievements in one of those games.

First, I agree that person on that screen cheated for sure. Second, keep in mind that you can play Jamestown and BITTRIPRUNNER without steam. This means you can practice without "getting" time on your steamaccount. Also in some games immedetaly unluck a steam achievement when youre starting them in steam the next time. Example: The game ARES. You can play it while steam is not running. You can unluck a bunch of achievements (the ingameachievements are the same as the steamachievements). Next time youll start ARES with steam, all already unlucked ingameachievements unlock at the same time in steam.

Sparkletwinkle
08-11-2012, 10:57 AM
Doesn't affect me or how I play, so I don't care.

Kyle07
08-11-2012, 01:48 PM
First, I agree that person on that screen cheated for sure. Second, keep in mind that you can play Jamestown and BITTRIPRUNNER without steam. This means you can practice without "getting" time on your steamaccount. Also in some games immedetaly unluck a steam achievement when youre starting them in steam the next time. Example: The game ARES. You can play it while steam is not running. You can unluck a bunch of achievements (the ingameachievements are the same as the steamachievements). Next time youll start ARES with steam, all already unlucked ingameachievements unlock at the same time in steam.

You are right, I had the same with "And Yet It Moves (http://store.steampowered.com/app/18700/)".

head on
09-21-2012, 03:45 AM
The only reason I was considering using this was for the tf2 item "The Black Rose" because the game is Blocked in Australia.

jomarcenter
09-22-2012, 07:48 AM
well in my view. i think it isn't very good since some achievement can get you free stuff, which it isn't very good for people who are trying to get a certain item and you just use something to get it with a click. so i think valve should ban the people who use such program.

legobrick100
10-23-2012, 05:39 PM
i use it, but only to relock my unlocked achievements. cuz its fun getting achievements, sadly, currently theres no more games i want, so no new achievemnts for me to get. so i use the manager to lock my achievements.

devilishwonder6
10-23-2012, 10:27 PM
even if steam bans this program, it wont stop the cheating, unhfortuneatly some people think oh look how cool i am, i got all these achievements in one day. im a big man. too bad 99% of the people think your just plain ignorant using it. and then when theres some type of prize on the line they must cheat to get more more more cause of greed, well thanks to you cheaters steam will never have another event like last holiday sale. i hope all you cheats are proud of yourselves.