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Selbi
01-27-2012, 05:04 PM
These Beta changes are EXACTLY what I've been looking for ever since the Über Update was released.

Faith in this game: Restored.

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/January_27,_2012_Patch_%28Beta%29

Perfect Cell
01-27-2012, 05:04 PM
I thought he was calling me.

DaSpaidarPIG
01-27-2012, 05:05 PM
tell now i don't know patch notes >:O

Cheeser
01-27-2012, 05:07 PM
kay ty

TDV SilentSnipe
01-27-2012, 05:07 PM
There were beta changes?

*goes to check*

HOLY CHRIST YES


Here you are, gentlemen (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/January_27,_2012_Patch_(Beta))

gf1024
01-27-2012, 05:08 PM
Beta changes? WTF? Link please.

Edit: OMG love it. Ship'em to main game NAO!

hurrycanne699
01-27-2012, 05:08 PM
''Faith in this game: Restored''

Oh god just when I tough I had too much 9gag for today!

Limeaide
01-27-2012, 05:09 PM
YYYYESS

YYYYYYYYESS

l4d2hunter
01-27-2012, 05:10 PM
YES!!!!! THANK YOU VALVE!

Perfect Cell
01-27-2012, 05:11 PM
*Reads changes*

TAKE THAT ENFORCER

FlufflyToaster
01-27-2012, 05:12 PM
Sandvich no longer gives hp to the heavy that dropped it?!

Anyways, YAYAYAYAYAAYYAAAAA.

Corrn
01-27-2012, 05:13 PM
So how do these new changes affect the Tomislav, I would like an in-def explanation if possible.

Daichi
01-27-2012, 05:13 PM
It'll only be 6 months before it's brought in to the proper game.

Guybrush20X6
01-27-2012, 05:13 PM
Not so sure about the Tomislav change (glad for the nerf though) but I like the changes otherwise. Does the sandvich change aplly to the buffalo steak too?

Chernobog
01-27-2012, 05:14 PM
Step in the right direction for once. Well done.

Lythiium
01-27-2012, 05:14 PM
Those changes are actually really good.
At the very least, move the enforcer's "+0.5 time to decloak" to main game, as (I hope) it sounds like that'll affect the Dead Ringer.

So how do these new changes affect the Tomislav, I would like an in-def explanation if possible.

Basically this is the Beta Tomislav:

Silent Killer: No barrel spin sound
20% slower firing speed

TwisterLemon
01-27-2012, 05:15 PM
Those are EXACTLY the right changes those weapons need.

Flame Haze
01-27-2012, 05:17 PM
I like the changes but this seems like it'd make Tomislav COMPLETLEY useless like Natascha. Atleast 20% spinup time? So it's not useless?

Kozmo
01-27-2012, 05:17 PM
I kind of feel like the Tomislav nerf was too much. Valve seems to always make overpowered weapons underpowered rather than making them balanced.

Otherwise, this sounds great.

Corrn
01-27-2012, 05:17 PM
Those changes are actually really good.
At the very least, move the enforcer's "+0.5 time to decloak" to main game, as (I hope) it sounds like that'll affect the Dead Ringer.



Basically this is the Beta Tomislav:

Silent Killer: No barrel spin sound
20% slower firing speed

Alright, so from what I understand, it's the same weapon, but it takes as long as other miniguns to rev up. Alright, not a big change.

Enjoy your rep.

rogueleader354
01-27-2012, 05:17 PM
Hmm. I could care less, but these changes are actually pretty good, not in the extremes as seveer SPUFers suggested.

Lt.ProSnipe
01-27-2012, 05:19 PM
I dont see how not seeing enemies health on the enforcer is that much of a con, sure it gives extra info but enforcer spies mostly shoot targets that always die at 2 hits and if not they will use it when they are running away - a rather useless con IMO + it doesnt even fix the problem with the dead ringer

not very good
01-27-2012, 05:20 PM
Does the sandvich change aplly to the buffalo steak too?

Well considering the fact that you can't eat the Steak to recover health, I'm going to go with my gut and say:

MAYBE

Mr. Reid
01-27-2012, 05:21 PM
I kind of feel like the Tomislav nerf was too much. Valve seems to always make overpowered weapons underpowered rather than making them balanced.

Otherwise, this sounds great.

No it's fine now, now everyone can start complaining about a real subject like they should be.

Those weapons are now balanced in the eyes of spuf, let's not whine to buff them and repeat the cycle, just leave them alone.

Selbi
01-27-2012, 05:21 PM
I dont see how not seeing enemies health on the enforcer is that much of a con, sure it gives extra info but enforcer spies mostly shoot targets that always die at 2 hits and if not they will use it when they are running away - a rather useless con IMO + it doesnt even fix the problem with the dead ringer

Didn't you open your eyes? It also changed the 0.5 cloak time into 0.5 decloak time, which also affects said watch.

Flame Haze
01-27-2012, 05:21 PM
I dont see how not seeing enemies health on the enforcer is that much of a con, sure it gives extra info but enforcer spies mostly shoot targets that always die at 2 hits and if not they will use it when they are running away - a rather useless con IMO + it doesnt even fix the problem with the dead ringer

Yes it does.

DrScienceMan
01-27-2012, 05:22 PM
I kind of feel like the Tomislav nerf was too much. Valve seems to always make overpowered weapons underpowered rather than making them balanced.

Otherwise, this sounds great.

Tomislav is supposed to be used to ambush your foes. If they fix the glitch that makes bullet sounds to everybody except yourself when you're not actually firing, beta Tomislav sounds like it could still be useful for defensive ambushes (IE your opponent comes running in, not hearing anything dangerous, and boom, bullets to the everywhere).

I dont see how not seeing enemies health on the enforcer is that much of a con, sure it gives extra info but enforcer spies mostly shoot targets that always die at 2 hits and if not they will use it when they are running away - a rather useless con IMO

You still can't go shooting everybody at random, though. Seeing their health still helps you figure out who to pick out and first. Hell, you might even be able to finish off that wounded enemy Heavy with a single shot, but you won't know if you can't see his health.

Bottled up hate
01-27-2012, 05:25 PM
I would've preferred a nerfed firing speed on the Enforcer, but as long as it's nerfed, and Valve cares at least somewhat about balance again...I am happy, but not necessarily a panda.

mariofan38
01-27-2012, 05:26 PM
Well considering the fact that you can't eat the Steak to recover health, I'm going to go with my gut and say:

MAYBE

What BSS are you using?

BSS heals 150 HP when you drop it.

KingOfTeam
01-27-2012, 05:26 PM
The last beta nerfs were in beta for about what, 3 months? I don't think we'll see these very soon.

Munkyman720
01-27-2012, 05:26 PM
I really don't like the proposed Enforcer changes, but I'm willing to at least test them out.

But hey, at least they're trying. The other changes look good. The Sandvich one in particular is going to be interesting to see, I know a lot of people have wanted it for quite some time.

lolcool15
01-27-2012, 05:27 PM
WIN WIN!

Simon >:C
01-27-2012, 05:29 PM
The heavy no longer gains health from a Sanvich they drop; It re-fills their Sanvich ammo instead.


YESYESYESYESYESYESYES

CyberSoniX
01-27-2012, 05:31 PM
now this only needs servers to play on

nanosheep
01-27-2012, 05:34 PM
So if I use the enforcer, I can't see their health but I can see their name right?

As long as I can see their name its fine with me.

phalanx1337
01-27-2012, 05:34 PM
all they need to do now is balance the liberty launcher

not very good
01-27-2012, 05:34 PM
What BSS are you using?

BSS heals 150 HP when you drop it.

Ok, I'm gonna do this once only to help you to not look stupid in the future.

These Beta changes are EXACTLY what I've been looking for ever since the Über Update was released.

Does the sandvich change aplly to the buffalo steak too?

Well considering the fact that you can't eat the Steak to recover health

MartinRivas
01-27-2012, 05:35 PM
now this only needs servers to play on

True, I would love to participate in the beta but the last time I tried there were no servers I could play in :(

ScampSixteen
01-27-2012, 05:35 PM
I'm confused by the new sandvich, what does it mean, "refill sandvich ammo?"

Teamfortressguy
01-27-2012, 05:35 PM
So if I use the enforcer, I can't see their health but I can see their name right? As long as I can see their name its fine with me.

Both of them are not visible. You can't see health, or their name.

Mutilator7
01-27-2012, 05:36 PM
-Tomislav
-Removed spin-up buff
-Removed health penalty

The Tomislav had a health penalty?
Or did they add one in the beta to test? I'm confused.

Also, i'm liking that Enforcer change.
Not knowing whether or not that enemy has low health and would be safe to take out with enforcer is pretty big for the Spy imo

DrScienceMan
01-27-2012, 05:37 PM
I'm confused by the new sandvich, what does it mean, "refill sandvich ammo?"

You know how, after using/tossing a sandvich, there's a meter that empties, refills over time, and when it's refilled you can use/toss another sandvich? I think it's talking about that.

spd12
01-27-2012, 05:37 PM
I like these changes. The sandvich one is much needed - now the Heavy actually has to slow down and eat it the classic way to get his health back while still being able to help friends out in a pinch.

Tomislav goes from having a huge upside/negligible downside to being negligible both ways, which is probably as good a choice as anything without completely revamping it from the ground up. Quick spinup was an okay experiment, but it was just too good in practice.

Enforcer changes... haha, no need for repeating what others have said, but this is going to be so delicious.

nanosheep
01-27-2012, 05:37 PM
Both of them are not viable. You can't see health, or their name.

Oh wow, thats a shame.

Bralef
01-27-2012, 05:38 PM
The heavy no longer gains health from a Sanvich they drop; It re-fills their Sanvich ammo instead.

ADD THIS INTO THE REAL GAME NOW

Not only would this encourage use of the Sandvich's primary function and stop the Heavy from having a portable Medkit that he hogs himself, but it would let him recover his Sandvich if that teammate he tries to share it with runs by it like it isn't there.

Plus, you know, constantly throwing it down while spamming voice commands as you run to the battlefield would be fun as hell, too.

Prestige-
01-27-2012, 05:39 PM
this is, in fact, perfect.

MartinRivas
01-27-2012, 05:39 PM
I think the Enforcer's second negative stat should only apply if the player has the Dead Ringer equipped because the weapon is nicely balanced with the other watches.

not very good
01-27-2012, 05:40 PM
Plus, you know, constantly throwing it down while spamming voice commands as you run to the battlefield would be fun as hell, too.

At first I was a bit dissapointed in the nerf, but this idea...

CyberSoniX
01-27-2012, 05:41 PM
The Tomislav had a health penalty?
Or did they add one in the beta to test? I'm confused.

with the beta update before Tomislav had -50HP

lNocturnal
01-27-2012, 05:41 PM
infitine throwing-sandwich loop

oolibokee
01-27-2012, 05:42 PM
I had an idea today: what if when they nerfed or buffed weapons it only affected weapons dropped, crafted, or purchased AFTER the nerf/buff? So all those Tomislavs and enforcers out there now would stay how they are even after this change, but any newly acquired weapons would have the new stats.

Imagine if early players had grenade launchers with 6 rounds, and death-grip Nataschas. It would completely, utterly, and comprehensively ruin the game--but it was fun to think about for a while.

These beta changes are extremely good. Do want. The longer decloak time DOES affect the DR, but if you are uncloaking anywhere that the 0.5 seconds makes a difference your opponents will hear it (not that they will react appropriately, but still). I think they could have nerfed it even more.

GeneralKitsune
01-27-2012, 05:43 PM
infitine throwing-sandwich loop

Oh wow, I just thought of something. This is going to bring something back to Team Fortress that was lost from QuakeWorld Team Fortress! Item juggling! ( Engineer used to be able to toss ammo and create ammo in the original game, people would look up and use this to toss and re-catch the ammo for fun )

I can do this again with heavy! =D!!

TheMcD
01-27-2012, 05:48 PM
Cool, now all we have to do is wait 3 or more months and they might actually put these changes in the main game!

I Bad
01-27-2012, 05:49 PM
Dear Valve:

Thank you.

Love, I Bad

Akijojo
01-27-2012, 05:53 PM
"Sanvich"

No

Dr.Shroob
01-27-2012, 05:54 PM
"Sanvich"

No

Yes. Heavies throwing Sandviches for a free 150 hp has been an issue for awhile.

SilverAlen
01-27-2012, 05:56 PM
This reminds me of how excited everyone was about the pyro and heavy weapon changes, you know in october. Wait, bad example those never mad it in game. Lemmme think.....

Oh I know, this is like when we were all excited the equalizer would finally get a mild nerf, and that the detonator would supply the mobility pyros wanted so badly last spring. Err wait........ I think that may be another bad example, those didn't really come through did they.

At least it isn't like they tested a change to the nocrit stat on melee weapons then immediately revoked after being in game for a day despite everyone in the Beta telling them it was a horrible idea to start with. Wait, what do you mean that actually happened?

tl;dr this means Valve is beginning to think about the possibility of implementing changes to those weapons which in no way resemble the changes actually released to the beta, and they likely won't get here for over a year. Just..... lower your expectations guys.

Though yes, I am very glad Valve decided to test some of these. Thank you Valve, just please follow through fairly soon.

Abilijer
01-27-2012, 05:58 PM
Everyone is getting hyped up over nothing. The non-Beta patch is going to look like this:

February 9th, 2012 Patch


General

Fixed a bug that caused a crash while recording a replay in the German version of TF2.

Sniper

Reduced Darwin's Danger Shield health increase by 5 points

Heavy

Scouts now receive the same health as all other classes from an enemy Heavy's dropped Sandvich.

Soldier

Created 3 new rocket launchers for the Soldier with wacky stats like infinite ammo, uber drain, etc.

HitmanFTW
01-27-2012, 06:06 PM
"Its Raining Sandvich!" "Tons of Sandvich!" "Grab it while its hot!"

Zefiris
01-27-2012, 06:13 PM
The heavy no longer gains health from a Sanvich they drop; It re-fills their Sanvich ammo instead.

Heavy is dead for good.

OluapPlayer
01-27-2012, 06:21 PM
Main game.

PUT THESE THINGS IN IT. NOW.

SkyeSlipstream
01-27-2012, 06:23 PM
Someone hug me. I feel the love right now.

ultimatemodz
01-27-2012, 06:23 PM
Yeah the only thing i dont like is the sanvich nerf

lNocturnal
01-27-2012, 06:24 PM
"Its Raining Sandvich!" "Tons of Sandvich!" "Grab it while its hot!"

If you read this like this music it will be funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGLZqDXau98)

SilverAlen
01-27-2012, 06:25 PM
Yeah the only thing i dont like is the sanvich nerf

I'm surprised people don't think/realize that being able to instantly heal yourself for 150 damage is more than likely the single most broken item in game.

ultimatemodz
01-27-2012, 06:26 PM
I'm surprised people don't think/realize that being able to instantly heal yourself for 150 damage is more than likely the single most broken item in game.I know what i said :rolleyes:

LaN.
01-27-2012, 06:26 PM
So I'm looking at the items they are working on

Here. (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Beta)

That equilizer nerf is pretty terrible. I thought the point of the weapon was to use it as an escape.

Now on to today's wep fixes.

Phlog more power!

...

-Alx-
01-27-2012, 06:29 PM
The heavy no longer gains health from a Sandvich they drop; It re-fills their Sandvich ammo instead.

Well, that ruins my way of playing heavy completely.

Time for Demo, Scout and Soldier I guess!

sandman9601
01-27-2012, 06:30 PM
I too applaud beta updates.

At the same time, the beta Enforcer is still OP for the amount of power it gives the Spy. It turns Spy into a battle class, easily equal to Pyro (and with all the stealth Pyro needs but doesn't have). I'd like to see 5-10% bullet/fire vulnerability added as well.

SilverAlen
01-27-2012, 06:32 PM
I too applaud beta updates.

At the same time, the beta Enforcer is still OP for the amount of power it gives the Spy. It turns Spy into a battle class, easily equal to Pyro (and with all the stealth Pyro needs but doesn't have). I'd like to see 5-10% bullet/fire vulnerability added as well.

Helpful hint, if your class doesn't have a weapon which out damages a shotgun on your stock, you aren't a combat class.

Zortalist
01-27-2012, 06:33 PM
Unable to see enemy health doesn't matter much when you can still 2 shot 125 hp classes. Just check if they have crosses around them, if not, proceed as planned.

Imo Enforcer needs a different kind of nerf, or just reduce the bonus damage to 10%.

CommanderDude7
01-27-2012, 06:36 PM
Now release these into the game with the flamethrower beta changes.

Dinoman96
01-27-2012, 06:37 PM
The heavy no longer gains health from a Sanvich they drop; It re-fills their Sanvich ammo instead.

Heavy is dead for good.

And he should stay dead.

We can finally be at last free from the tyrant.

ardi1230
01-27-2012, 06:40 PM
Amazing News! Let's hope that this is a sign that Valve will start paying more attention to balance, and optimization. Thanks for the notification OP, wouldn't have found out otherwise.

The FILTH
01-27-2012, 06:42 PM
Great changes mostly (at least they are trying), esp the sandvich...
but I would have preferred the health nerf on the tomislav to the suddenly no more instant spin up (esp with the new sandvich changes preventing heavies from instant heal).

eh.

Goldenhog
01-27-2012, 06:44 PM
Now we need Natascha buff.

And Dalokohns's Bar buff.

And Axtinguisher nerf.

Rigel-
01-27-2012, 06:47 PM
Glad to see they haven't completely given up on balance, but this is long overdue.

Tomislav was nerfed too heavily. There's no reason to use it now really. Sandvich nerf is perfect. Enforcer nerf isn't a nerf at all.

psiwarp
01-27-2012, 06:48 PM
And Dalokohns's Bar buff.

Yeah, let us throw the chocolate onto the ground and stain someone's shoes!

OhYeahMrKrabs
01-27-2012, 06:53 PM
Now we need Natascha buff.

And Dalokohns's Bar buff.

And Axtinguisher nerf.

Axinguisher now grants 10+ more damage then it's base damage
which is like 43

nanosheep
01-27-2012, 06:55 PM
Steak: When eaten, doesn't restore health. Can be thrown as a Health Pack

Sandvich: When eaten, restores health. Can be thrown as a Health Pack

Dalakohs: When eaten, restores health. Cannot be thrown as a Health Pack

...

At least make the Dalakohs a small medkit or something!

Dinoman96
01-27-2012, 06:58 PM
No, just let Dalokahs heal you to full health with the increase health mechanic. Don't let you throw the bar at all.

That way, it's balanced out with the Sandvich. One will give you added health with the cost of being able help your team members, while the other lets you help your team members with the cost of getting added health.

ShadowGlove84
01-27-2012, 07:00 PM
As I said, the new beta Enforcer is completely useless. Here's a hell of a thought. When you uncloak with anything besides the DR, you can't go to a backstab because you're still waiting half a damned second for your uncloak. By that time, the enemy can see you uncloaking and kill you. And even WITH the DR, people still hear your super loud sound when you start to uncloak. The Enforcer may need to be fixed, but this isn't the way to do so. It's useless now.

On a side note, why does everyone hate the Enforcer in the first place? It might be a straight upgrade IF you use the DR, sure, but then what about the Third Degree and the Amputator? Why isn't SPUF getting their panties in knots about them?

Mature replys would be great, thanks.

TL;DR: The new beta enforcer is a useless piece of ♥♥♥♥.

Flame Haze
01-27-2012, 07:01 PM
Tomislav was wacked much harder by the Nerf bat than the Enforcer was.

Tomislav, I think you should meet Nerfed.

Rynjin
01-27-2012, 07:04 PM
As I said, the new beta Enforcer is completely useless. Here's a hell of a thought. When you uncloak with anything besides the DR, you can't go to a backstab because you're still waiting half a damned second for your uncloak. By that time, the enemy can see you uncloaking and kill you. And even WITH the DR, people still hear your super loud sound when you start to uncloak. The Enforcer may need to be fixed, but this isn't the way to do so. It's useless now.


No. You still get an overly powerful hand cannon that can 2 shot light classes at close range.

It's just that NOW, if you want to play Spy like a combat class, you have to deal with the consequences.

Besides that, underpowered piece of ♥♥♥♥ >>>> overpowered piece of ♥♥♥♥

ExecutiveDave
01-27-2012, 07:05 PM
What a sad, sad day.

RIP Tf2

Dorf Cakes
01-27-2012, 07:05 PM
Woop woop, and just after I had switched from Enforcer to Amby.

THD
01-27-2012, 07:05 PM
As I said, the new beta Enforcer is completely useless. Here's a hell of a thought. When you uncloak with anything besides the DR, you can't go to a backstab because you're still waiting half a damned second for your uncloak. By that time, the enemy can see you uncloaking and kill you. And even WITH the DR, people still hear your super loud sound when you start to uncloak. The Enforcer may need to be fixed, but this isn't the way to do so. It's useless now.

On a side note, why does everyone hate the Enforcer in the first place? It might be a straight upgrade IF you use the DR, sure, but then what about the Third Degree and the Amputator? Why isn't SPUF getting their panties in knots about them?

Mature replys would be great, thanks.

TL;DR: The new beta enforcer is a useless piece of ♥♥♥♥.

Third Degree and Amputator are upgrades. They aren't anywhere near as much of an upgrade as the Enforcer was.

Goldenhog
01-27-2012, 07:06 PM
As I said, the new beta Enforcer is completely useless. Here's a hell of a thought. When you uncloak with anything besides the DR, you can't go to a backstab because you're still waiting half a damned second for your uncloak. By that time, the enemy can see you uncloaking and kill you. And even WITH the DR, people still hear your super loud sound when you start to uncloak. The Enforcer may need to be fixed, but this isn't the way to do so. It's useless now.

On a side note, why does everyone hate the Enforcer in the first place? It might be a straight upgrade IF you use the DR, sure, but then what about the Third Degree and the Amputator? Why isn't SPUF getting their panties in knots about them?

Mature replys would be great, thanks.

TL;DR: The new beta enforcer is a useless piece of ♥♥♥♥.

They are. The thing is that a Dr Enforcicle is WAY more annoying than a Pyro with the Third Degree or a Medic with the Amputator.

Selbi
01-27-2012, 07:11 PM
On a side note, why does everyone hate the Enforcer in the first place? It might be a straight upgrade IF you use the DR, sure, but then what about the Third Degree and the Amputator? Why isn't SPUF getting their panties in knots about them?

The reason is simple: Unlike the Third Degree and Amputator the Enforcer actually has a significant upside, while the other straight upgrades are not really worth a rant due to their really small upsides (seriously, I've never actually seen someone putting an Amputator into good use). Besides that, discussions about this have been held long ago already, so don't say SPUF never complained about it.

As for the Enforcer itself, you do realize that the +20% extra damage make a significant difference, do you? This makes the Spy a more offensive, rather than stealthy class. Of course you have to trade in your stealthiness if you really want that extra bit of power. If you don't want to lose that, just pick another Revolver, as there are plenty.

Bottom line: Enforcer is now perfectly balanced; it gives you extra power at a significant cost, so you actually have to think about really equipping it.

Monoman
01-27-2012, 07:12 PM
That equilizer nerf is pretty terrible. I thought the point of the weapon was to use it as an escape.

What?! who else thinks this and why wasn't I informed?

Also yes those were terrible changes.

Huggysback
01-27-2012, 07:13 PM
It'll only be 6 months before it's brought in to the proper game.

If ever.....

botulox
01-27-2012, 07:16 PM
YES. YES.

NOW LIBERTY LAUNCHER. DO IT. REDUCE THE SPEED BUFF.

nanosheep
01-27-2012, 07:19 PM
YES. YES.

NOW LIBERTY LAUNCHER. DO IT. REDUCE THE SPEED BUFF.
Lol no.

Reduce the speed buff and you have a amnesiac crap rocket launcher with the inability to count to 4.

xmacro
01-27-2012, 07:20 PM
Well, as usual, SPUF gets its wish and good items are nerfed into oblivion. No one will ever use the Tomislav over the standard minigun again, and spies will go back to using the revolver or ambassador.

Well done SPUF, these items will never be seen outside Valve servers ever again. *slow clap*

Karnaj
01-27-2012, 07:21 PM
Take THAT, Tomigruvich and Dr. Enforcicle. :cool:

Rynjin
01-27-2012, 07:21 PM
Well, as usual, SPUF gets its wish and good items are nerfed into oblivion. No one will ever use the Tomislav over the standard minigun again, and spies will go back to using the revolver or ambassador.

Well done SPUF, these items will never be seen outside Valve servers ever again. *slow clap*

You say this like it's a bad thing.

nanosheep
01-27-2012, 07:22 PM
Well, as usual, SPUF gets its wish and good items are nerfed into oblivion. No one will ever use the Tomislav over the standard minigun again, and spies will go back to using the revolver or ambassador.

Well done SPUF, these items will never be seen outside Valve servers ever again. *slow clap*


Put a raincheck on the item shelving. Beta changes take almost a year to see public release in the release version.

Selbi
01-27-2012, 07:22 PM
Well, as usual, SPUF gets its wish and good items are nerfed into oblivion. No one will ever use the Tomislav over the standard minigun again, and spies will go back to using the revolver or ambassador.

Well done SPUF, these items will never be seen outside Valve servers ever again. *slow clap*

This sounds like you wanted overpowered weapons to be everywhere. Explain please.

Keepy989
01-27-2012, 07:22 PM
good items

This poor abused creature, being beaten into having brain damage.

Huggysback
01-27-2012, 07:22 PM
Lol no.

Reduce the speed buff and you have a amnesiac crap rocket launcher with the inability to count to 4.

Agreed. The speed buff is the only thing it has going for it. And it's still out classed by the stock, DH, Cow Mangler and Black Box.

Nomore1337
01-27-2012, 07:22 PM
These Beta changes are EXACTLY what I've been looking for ever since the Über Update was released.

Faith in this game: Restored.

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/January_27,_2012_Patch_%28Beta%29

wow, the enforcer nerf is bullcrap, im ok with the tomi but the enforcer one is too much

nanosheep
01-27-2012, 07:24 PM
wow, the enforcer nerf is bullcrap, im ok with the tomi but the enforcer one is too much

Lol no.

You're using the gun to kill, not cloak around right? Damage hasn't changed.

Besides most people running around with this thing are too busy two shotting everything anyway.

KennyPwns2
01-27-2012, 07:24 PM
If the Tomislav changes go through, it'll be the new Natasha. The health penalty was better, it made a Tomislav Heavy a faster mover that died faster. Much more balanced and interesting if you ask me, -20% damage for silence on the BIGGEST CLASS IN THE GAME is kinda stupid.

roamzero
01-27-2012, 07:26 PM
Unable to see enemy health doesn't matter much when you can still 2 shot 125 hp classes. Just check if they have crosses around them, if not, proceed as planned

You can already two shot light classes with the Ambassador, just a fraction of a second slower though.

Either way, I dont see how it's unfair since all the other light classes can 2 shot, or even 1 shot spies in addition to the other advantages they have.

Prestige-
01-27-2012, 07:26 PM
i think i'd prefer for all the uber update weapons to be removed. enforcer, tomislav- i dont get why they exist. detonator and MG might be alright.

Plaza
01-27-2012, 07:28 PM
i think i'd prefer for all the uber update weapons to be removed. enforcer, tomislav- i dont get why they exist. detonator and MG might be alright.

Different... playstyles..? Nah, that's too absurd.

NeoSamus
01-27-2012, 07:29 PM
A+ Tomislav change. Maybe people will realize just how good silent spinup is (assuming you fix the damn firing sound glitch) if this actually gets in-game.

Rammite
01-27-2012, 07:31 PM
SANDVICH
GRAB IT WHILE YA CAN, LADS

nanosheep
01-27-2012, 07:33 PM
A+ Tomislav change. Maybe people will realize just how good silent spinup is (assuming you fix the damn firing sound glitch) if this actually gets in-game.

Though corner spin jumping with any other gun is likely more efficient in the long run.

TheSentryIsaSpy
01-27-2012, 07:33 PM
I thought he was calling me.

CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LL


ONCE AGAIN YOU UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF A TRUE SAYIAN WARRIOR!

DrScienceMan
01-27-2012, 07:34 PM
If the Tomislav changes go through, it'll be the new Natasha. The health penalty was better, it made a Tomislav Heavy a faster mover that died faster. Much more balanced and interesting if you ask me, -20% damage for silence on the BIGGEST CLASS IN THE GAME is kinda stupid.

Do keep in mind that the Heavy is labeled as a defensive class in the character select screen. I think if used to defend an area, the Tomislav still have use. Players with experience will keep their ears pealed out for all sorts of noises; sentry noises, Spy noises, and, of course, Heavy noises. There being no sound around the corner is the perfect way for somebody to foolishly jump right into a Heavy with his Tomislav at the ready.

MellonCollie
01-27-2012, 07:35 PM
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_2_Beta

Link this page, OP. It has more changes.

KennyPwns2
01-27-2012, 07:37 PM
Do keep in mind that the Heavy is labeled as a defensive class in the character select screen. I think if used to defend an area, the Tomislav still have use. Players with experience will keep their ears pealed out for all sorts of noises; sentry noises, Spy noises, and, of course, Heavy noises. There being no sound around the corner is the perfect way for somebody to foolishly jump right into a Heavy with his Tomislav at the ready.

While that is true, the Brass Beast would still be a better choice for defense IMO (although I can see that working).

And the class labels don't mean much, to be honest. The Demoman hasn't been a defensive class in ages, and God knows Pyro is more of a support class than anything.

Perfect Cell
01-27-2012, 07:37 PM
CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LL


ONCE AGAIN YOU UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF A TRUE SAYIAN WARRIOR!

You made my day.

Take the rep.

DrNightKOT
01-27-2012, 07:41 PM
Y U NO WHINE SPUF?

Tomislav is useless now. Nice.

Selbi
01-27-2012, 07:43 PM
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_2_Beta

Link this page, OP. It has more changes.

Why would I do that? I'm solely talking about the new update, not the entire Beta.

lordexplodeon
01-27-2012, 07:44 PM
Eh, can't say I support nerfing the Sandvich. I like the other ones though.

l3o2828saturday
01-27-2012, 07:49 PM
I sure as hell hope that Sandvich nerf isn't implemented in the main game....

Other than that, it's good.

Rynjin
01-27-2012, 07:50 PM
I sure as hell hope that Sandvich nerf isn't implemented in the main game....



I sure as hell do. It fixes the only problem with the Sandvich balance wise.

CommanderDude7
01-27-2012, 07:50 PM
I always forget to throw the sandvich on the ground anyways so thats not so bad. Kudos on the other updates as well.

botulox
01-27-2012, 07:51 PM
Lol no.

Reduce the speed buff and you have a amnesiac crap rocket launcher with the inability to count to 4.

And now what we have is a herpderp cannon point&click insta-gib adventure lol I cod pro.

Nerf it.

Aaron0000
01-27-2012, 07:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_VheAwZBuQ

This was my reaction.

l3o2828saturday
01-27-2012, 07:52 PM
I sure as hell do. It fixes the only problem with the Sandvich balance wise.

I'm perhaps scared because dropping the sandvich on the ground is part of my Heavy playstyle...

2560x1600@120hz
01-27-2012, 07:52 PM
I'm perhaps scared because dropping the sandvich on the ground is part of my Heavy playstyle...

Your playstyle is...flawed...

Rezuul
01-27-2012, 07:55 PM
And now what we have is a herpderp cannon point&click insta-gib adventure lol I cod pro.

Nerf it.

Nerf implies that the weapon is overpowered, when LL is a crutch. Nerf + Crutch = Useless weapon. Give it an overhaul, new stats and such. Like say, +40% push force. Mo' juggles, mo' rocket jumps. Would actually work with the set for once, too.

Fantastic work, Valve. Hopefully these get in soon, along with the other beta changes.

A Ghost
01-27-2012, 07:59 PM
These changes can't come fast enough.
I was coming in here to ♥♥♥♥♥ about another TF2 statue that I can't reasonably afford, but this just makes me forget all about that.

2560x1600@120hz
01-27-2012, 08:00 PM
These changes can't come fast enough.
I was coming in here to ♥♥♥♥♥ about another TF2 statue that I can't reasonably afford, but this just makes me forget all about that.

You could always just grab some pills and use them to distract Louis while you take the Heavy Statue on his office desk.

botulox
01-27-2012, 08:00 PM
Nerf implies that the weapon is overpowered, when LL is a crutch. Nerf + Crutch = Useless weapon. Give it an overhaul, new stats and such. Like say, +40% push force. Mo' juggles, mo' rocket jumps. Would actually work with the set for once, too.

Fantastic work, Valve. Hopefully these get in soon, along with the other beta changes.

They'd never rework a weapon. That's why it needs to be nerfed into oblivion. The concept is bad. Then, it could be redeemed with a new weapon, the rocket launcher with more knockback you proposed is a good idea.

Also, liberty launcher "could" work with its actual speed, with a 15-20% damage nerf. You're supposed to hit them at maximum damage range with a rocket so fast. Then we'd have a direct hit that still deals damage if you miss. With a -1 rocket penalty. And career liberty launcher n00bs don't know how to airshot so the minicrits when airbourne won't make a difference.

xchainlinkx
01-27-2012, 08:04 PM
*Reads patch notes*
*then I say...*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ5LpwO-An4

UnrealCanine
01-27-2012, 08:05 PM
So much defence for bad weapons

ExecutiveDave
01-27-2012, 08:10 PM
They ♥♥♥♥ed up every single one of those nerfs.

horrible, hope none of them get implemented.

ExecutiveDave
01-27-2012, 08:11 PM
This sounds like you wanted overpowered weapons to be everywhere. Explain please.

3 of the "op" weapons were achievement items, aka everyone gets them.

shinquickman
01-27-2012, 08:18 PM
They ♥♥♥♥ed up every single one of those nerfs.

horrible, hope none of them get implemented.Explain, or exposed.

Lollerskaterz
01-27-2012, 08:19 PM
3 of the "op" weapons were achievement items, aka everyone gets them.
How does allowing everyone to get a particular item easily with achievements make it not OP?

SGTkiller!
01-27-2012, 08:23 PM
Your playstyle is...flawed...

who are you to say his playstyle is flawed. i do the same when i need a quick pick me up in battle. if there is no medic or health kit, then i drop the sandvich and get my quick +125 hp and go back into battle with my iron curtan.

valid playstyle.

DudeSonic1
01-27-2012, 08:23 PM
Enforcer: Finally. Now everyone switches to Ambassador (spelling?)And then I kill them with mine because they have no experience aiming. Good day for me :D
Tomislav: So now it fires slow but it's silent. Sounds balanced. I'll probably stick to the minigun as I always have.
Sandvich: meh. I don't like it, but I understand that it must be done.

Hartisen
01-27-2012, 08:26 PM
I like the sandvich nerf.

The enforcer and the Tomislav are now useless.

Minija123
01-27-2012, 08:26 PM
So wait, does this mean that everyone will use the steak now?

Because y'know, you can still get the +150 hp upon dropping it.

Goldenhog
01-27-2012, 08:33 PM
So wait, does this mean that everyone will use the steak now?

Because y'know, you can still get the +150 hp upon dropping it.

Tommy Grusteak.

oh wait...

Rynjin
01-27-2012, 08:33 PM
So wait, does this mean that everyone will use the steak now?

Because y'know, you can still get the +150 hp upon dropping it.

Nope.

BSS doesn't do it now either.

Crab Dubious
01-27-2012, 08:35 PM
Wait, why do people think this is the miracle instant-balance for the enforcer?
This changes nothing. The main issue with the enforcer still exists, regardless of the situational downside of not being able to see enemy health and a very slight additional decloak. You still 3-shot pyros and 2-shot light classes.

In contrast, this is exactly what needed to happen to the Tomislav and Sandvich dropping. Nice job with those, TF2 team.

DudeSonic1
01-27-2012, 08:37 PM
Wait..... now what will people whine about?!?!?!?!
/explodes from nothing to whine about

Goldenhog
01-27-2012, 08:39 PM
Wait..... now what will people whine about?!?!?!?!
/explodes from nothing to whine about

Optimization.

Selbi
01-27-2012, 08:39 PM
Wait, why do people think this is the miracle instant-balance for the enforcer?
This changes nothing. The main issue with the enforcer still exists, regardless of the situational downside of not being able to see enemy health. You still 3-shot pyros and 2-shot light classes.

In contrast, this is exactly what needed to happen to the Tomislav and Sandvich dropping. Nice job with those, TF2 team.

You question the entire existence of the Enforcer. The point of it was there from the very beginning, effectively taking out enemies by trading in some of your main ability, stealth.

And trust me, I playtested the new changes in the last 2 or so hours and it DOES make a significant difference. Even my "victims" agreed that the deaths were now much more justified.

gomixy
01-27-2012, 08:42 PM
Quick question

Does the longer decloak time stretch the decloak noise?
Cause that would be weird with the DR

TheGameMage
01-27-2012, 08:44 PM
Wait..... now what will people whine about?!?!?!?!
/explodes from nothing to whine about

Localization files.

Selbi
01-27-2012, 08:45 PM
Quick question

Does the longer decloak time stretch the decloak noise?
Cause that would be weird with the DR

No it doesn't, it only affects the time it takes until you can do stuff again.

lordexplodeon
01-27-2012, 08:46 PM
Wait..... now what will people whine about?!?!?!?!
/explodes from nothing to whine about

The Demo's lack of a crotch-face.

Grink
01-27-2012, 08:47 PM
What practical purpose does throwing sandviches serve now? (bad english).

Snyphurr
01-27-2012, 08:49 PM
YES. YES.

NOW LIBERTY LAUNCHER. DO IT. REDUCE THE SPEED BUFF.
Not exactly the best balance, but something MUST be done to it.

Goldenhog
01-27-2012, 08:50 PM
What practical purpose does throwing sandviches serve now? (bad english).

The engineer will tell you.

TheGameMage
01-27-2012, 08:50 PM
What practical purpose does throwing sandviches serve now? (bad english).

And no cared about the fact that the Sandvich still acts as a med health pack to you teammates that day.

Dazeheart
01-27-2012, 08:51 PM
aaw they're contemplating nerfing the sandvich..

aaaww..

maybe just make it take 1.5 seconds to throw D:

SilverAlen
01-27-2012, 08:52 PM
What practical purpose does throwing sandviches serve now? (bad english).

75 hp to a pocket medic. Once upon a time, that alone would've been deemed a sidegrade to the shotgun.

Keybored6522
01-27-2012, 08:55 PM
What practical purpose does throwing sandviches serve now? (bad english).

Sure, you can't instantly heal yourself any more, but you can still instantly heal your teammates. They'll love you for it, especially your Medics. :D

Also, your english is fine.

Simon >:C
01-27-2012, 08:57 PM
I am dancing so hard right now.

Grink
01-27-2012, 09:03 PM
Sure, you can't instantly heal yourself any more, but you can still instantly heal your teammates. They'll love you for it, especially your Medics. :D

Also, your english is fine.

Oh silly me, for some reason i was thinking the other classes would refill their sandviches when they picked up one, well at least this means heavies will be more cooperative with their team.

DudeSonic1
01-27-2012, 09:04 PM
Oh silly me, for some reason i was thinking the other classes would refill their sandviches when they picked up one, well at least this means heavies will be more cooperative with their team.

or switch to steak

Dojab
01-27-2012, 09:06 PM
I am happy about the sandvich nerf.

<Witty name>
01-27-2012, 09:08 PM
Ah, this is superior.

Well considering the fact that you can't eat the Steak to recover health, I'm going to go with my gut and say:

MAYBE
I have no strong feelings about this post one way or the other.

I Bad
01-27-2012, 09:09 PM
When almost every single heavy switches to steak, it'll be amusing to see just how valve realizes just what they've done to the heavy.

Hahaha just kidding, they've known all along.

Keybored6522
01-27-2012, 09:12 PM
switch to steak
The sandvich-dropping nerf affects the steak as well. I just tried dropping a steak at my feet in the beta, and I picked it back up just like the Sandvich.

I Bad
01-27-2012, 09:13 PM
The sandvich-dropping nerf affects the steak as well. I just tried dropping a steak at my feet in the beta, and I picked it back up just like the Sandvich.

Hooray!

This makes sense actually, since the steak is a variant of the sandvich.

nanosheep
01-27-2012, 09:20 PM
They'd never rework a weapon. That's why it needs to be nerfed into oblivion. The concept is bad. Then, it could be redeemed with a new weapon, the rocket launcher with more knockback you proposed is a good idea.

Also, liberty launcher "could" work with its actual speed, with a 15-20% damage nerf. You're supposed to hit them at maximum damage range with a rocket so fast. Then we'd have a direct hit that still deals damage if you miss. With a -1 rocket penalty. And career liberty launcher n00bs don't know how to airshot so the minicrits when airbourne won't make a difference.

Except any rocket launcher with only 3 rockets in a magazine/clip is inferior to the 4 magazine/clip rocket launcher in every way no matter how many gimmicks are attached to it.

Dovomoi
01-27-2012, 09:20 PM
They make long-awaited balance changes and use the Beta? What the hell is this, the Twilight Zone and/or Scary Door?

I have no strong feelings about this post one way or the other.
All I know is my gut says maybe.

N3CR0PHILE
01-27-2012, 09:23 PM
Tomislav doesn't really need a nerf. Sure it works really well, but when you use it against another heavy who uses the regular minigun, they almost always win. The enforcer change seems welcome though.

Dr.FrankenStein
01-27-2012, 09:33 PM
Spy
Enforcer stats changed to:
0.5 increased decloak time
Unable to see enemy health

I'm fine with the increased decloak time. It might train people to be better Spies in the long run.

Not being able to see enemy health is a blow to me though. Whenever I feel like pubstomping, my Enforcer was my go to weapon due to the fact that I could see enemy health. Rage inducing one hit kills were my speciality.

Dog in yard
01-27-2012, 09:44 PM
I'm very pleased with the Enforcer changes, and while I'm aware that the Tomislav/Sandvitch changes are for the best, I'm a bit disappointed, probably because I use Tomislav/Sandvitch/GRU when I play Heavy. The new Tomislav (Silent Killer, Firing Speed Decrease) seems a little bit underpowered, but that is just my opinion.

I might prefer a set nerf rather than a weapon nerf (if all weapons are equipped, nerf Tomislav and/or Sandvitch) so that people who don't go full Tommy Gruvitch aren't punished unnecessarily. For example, honest Minigun, Natascha, or Brass Beast Heavies who use the Sandvitch can still extinguish themselves. On the other end, Tomislav Heavies who use the Shotgun and KGB, for example, should not be punished either. I agree that the Tomislav needs a nerf, but taking away its main upside seems a little too far.

Edit: Perhaps equipping any two of the three parts of Tommy Gruvitch could activate the nerf, so that people couldn't half-♥♥♥ the set and still be overpowered.

Mr. Moustache
01-27-2012, 09:48 PM
Tomislav doesn't really need a nerf. Sure it works really well, but when you use it against another heavy who uses the regular minigun, they almost always win. The enforcer change seems welcome though.

A Tomislav Heavy will defeat a Minigun Heavy unless the minigun Heavy starts spinning first.

Natures_Spy
01-27-2012, 09:54 PM
The only good thing I see here is the change in the enforcer from decreased cloak speed to decreased uncloak speed.

The enforcer is fine with just the decreased uncloak speed, not being able to see enemy health is a step too far.

IMO the Tomislav was balanced with the 75% faster spin up time, it dealt less damage overall compared to the minigun, if anything it is the stock minigun that needs a nerf.

The Sandvich change I am conflicted on because while it can be annoying for a heavy to gain back half of his health instantly, it was important when playing without a medic. I don't play a lot of heavy, but the quick sandvich heal was always more useful than eating it.

Leoholbel
01-27-2012, 10:24 PM
Tomislav:
Okay, what's the point of this weapon now? It's just another of the same minigun...

Sandwich:
Sandwich is fine, no need for the nerf

Enforcer:
Increased a bit further the decloacking penalty... alright.
Unable to see enemy health: Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ about that??

Teamfortressguy
01-27-2012, 10:25 PM
Unable to see enemy health: Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ about that??

Not knowing how to plan a kill based off someone's health is a pretty big downside. You could see a heavy walk by with 1 hp, and you would think he was at full health, making no attempt to kill him when really anything would kill him.

billybobby
01-27-2012, 10:28 PM
About bloody time.

Leoholbel
01-27-2012, 10:30 PM
Not knowing how to plan a kill based off someone's health is a pretty big downside. You could see a heavy walk by with 1 hp, and you would think he was at full health, making no attempt to kill him when really anything would kill him.

Anything you point your enforcer at is dead anyway, that's why taking longer to decloak is much worse than this. Not to mention several signs ppl give when they're low, such as desperatelly calling for medic, running away from fights/towards dispenser or medkits etc...

Chaosky
01-27-2012, 10:32 PM
YES YESYES

IMPLEMENT CHANGES NAO


Also, why the hell are people defending the Tomislav?

Monoman
01-27-2012, 10:34 PM
No it doesn't, it only affects the time it takes until you can do stuff again.

Does that mean it would extend how long you have that insane damage resistance for? Or do you lose the damage resistance as soon as you begin decloaking? I never really paid much attention.

Leoholbel
01-27-2012, 10:35 PM
YES YESYES

IMPLEMENT CHANGES NAO


Also, why the hell are people defending the Tomislav?

If it's me, I'm not defending. On the contrary, I'm defending the old fix (-50hp): NERF IT INTO OBLIVION AND LET US BE FREE FROM THIS PLAGUE FOREVER

hat
01-27-2012, 10:53 PM
The Tomislav will still be good for standing in A tunnel on gravelpit and surprising blu players as they creep out of spawn.

Fire_Blazer700
01-27-2012, 11:07 PM
Tomislav seems really under-powered now. It needs a bigger bonus.

As for the Enforcer, it seems like the perfect type of change. One of the huge problems with the Enforcer was that the Spy could start battle spying, not even bothering to backstab or disguise. Being able to see the enemy's health was helpful in determining who you can kill, and who you cannot. Additionally, the increased decolak time makes it so that it has a downside with the Dead ringer, which a lot of people were complaining about.

Valrossen
01-27-2012, 11:12 PM
Tomislav seems really under-powered now. It needs a bigger bonus.

I don't think you understand how helpful silent revving is.

HitmanFTW
01-27-2012, 11:15 PM
I don't think you understand how helpful silent revving is.

If silent means The Heavy screaming "NEW WEAPON!" every 5 seconds...yep, its pretty silent.

Shradow
01-27-2012, 11:19 PM
If silent means The Heavy screaming "NEW WEAPON!" every 5 seconds...yep, its pretty silent.

No, that's surprisingly not what silent means.

HitmanFTW
01-27-2012, 11:20 PM
No, that's surprisingly not what silent means.

So the weapon turns into a normal minigun

Magmarrax
01-27-2012, 11:23 PM
*insert M. Bison here*

But seriously... THANK YOU VALVE!

hawkshadow741
01-27-2012, 11:24 PM
did the enforcer keep its damage boost?

if not, it's now obsolete

but...now Tomislav is like the Natascha

silent spi-NEEEWWWWWW WEAAAAAPOOOOOOOON

Getsuga Tensho
01-27-2012, 11:25 PM
I don't feel the Sandvich nerf was really needed. The enforcer nerf is really needed although I really think the damage and/or fire rate should be changed to balance it.

The Tomislav one although quite a big nerf, Valve are once again completely missing the part about the weapon that made it OP: Silent rev up. Keep it as it was and give it a spin up sound then test it. A silent minigun is still going to be OP. The point of the spin up sound is so you know if a Heavy is there and waiting for you as if you run around a corner and there's a Heavy there waiting to fire, nothing is making it out alive, even with 20% lower fire rate. I really don't get how Valve haven't seen the issue with this weapon, silent spin up is what makes it OP, not the faster spin up time.

Shradow
01-27-2012, 11:26 PM
So the weapon turns into a normal minigun

No, I'm saying you need to look up the word silent in a dictionary.

HitmanFTW
01-27-2012, 11:28 PM
No, I'm saying you need to look up the word silent in a dictionary.

Silent: "Marked by absence of noise or sound"

So your point is...

hawkshadow741
01-27-2012, 11:28 PM
but...does the Enforcer drop so we can test it?

NO IT DOES NOT

anyway, implement the Sandvich and Enforcer fixes

as for Tomislav, bring back the spin-up >.>

just give it a slower spin-DOWN

Shradow
01-27-2012, 11:29 PM
Silent: "Marked by absence of noise or sound"

So your point is...

Heavy yelling (whose repetition you exaggerated) =/= Tomislav spin-up

EPIC_HeaVii
01-27-2012, 11:31 PM
I hated the Tomislav. Now it seems useless just because of the little "Clink" sound it still makes when spinning it up. I think if they removed that, it'd be a nice, stealthy minigun as it is intended.

Dreihund
01-27-2012, 11:37 PM
Thank christ, maybe heavy will start taking a tiny bit more skill to play.

nattie_lyte
01-28-2012, 12:22 AM
Heavy yelling (whose repetition you exaggerated) =/= Tomislav spin-up

cant tell if troll or just stoopid..

Snyphurr
01-28-2012, 12:46 AM
The sandvich-dropping nerf affects the steak as well. I just tried dropping a steak at my feet in the beta, and I picked it back up just like the Sandvich.

Excellent. Now that they've both been knocked down a few notches, maybe the Shotgun and Dalokoh's Bar (lol) will get to see some use again.

Duke Eltan
01-28-2012, 12:53 AM
good stuff but far overdue

Shradow
01-28-2012, 01:21 AM
cant tell if troll or just stoopid..

I am neither. He merely said...
If silent means The Heavy screaming "NEW WEAPON!" every 5 seconds...yep, its pretty silent.
and thus I decided to point out...
Heavy yelling (whose repetition you exaggerated) =/= Tomislav spin-up

xcooler777x
01-28-2012, 01:26 AM
YES
50YES

With the sandwich it's not that useful, everyone will just use the steak (IT DROPS), ut enforcer and tomi nerf is alrite!

Dr.FrankenStein
01-28-2012, 01:43 AM
but...now Tomislav is like the Natascha

silent spi-NEEEWWWWWW WEAAAATHE CONTROL POINT IS BEING CAPTURED!

Fixed.

hawkshadow741
01-28-2012, 01:46 AM
Fixed.

you forgot overtimeovertimetimeoverovertimetimeovertime

IRA625
01-28-2012, 01:50 AM
Really, Valve?

What happened to making the heavy more reliable on his own?

Referring to Sandvich nerf here. I'm totally cool with the Enforcer/Tomislav nerfs.

Idiot Cube
01-28-2012, 02:05 AM
Really, Valve?

What happened to making the heavy more reliable on his own?

Referring to Sandvich nerf here. I'm totally cool with the Enforcer/Tomislav nerfs.

I think the idea is that you'll only drop the sandvich to help a teammate, instead of using it as a portable instant health pack.

cirnocirno
01-28-2012, 02:09 AM
I think the idea is that you'll only drop the sandvich to help a teammate, instead of using it as a portable instant health pack.

But you know that the sandvich was a great tool for heavy to keep up the gameplay. Normally without a medic heavies can be spammed to death easily now they can at least run away... and make a standing...

Oh well it will change again...Like always whenever babies @ spuf cries valve tries a change...

Dackstrus
01-28-2012, 02:31 AM
They basicly put tomislave back to the way it is now. And nerfed sandvich and Enforcer... Sandvich nerf is terrible. Punching heavy relied on that...

Duke Eltan
01-28-2012, 02:32 AM
They basicly put tomislave back to the way it is now. And nerfed sandvich and Enforcer... Sandvich nerf is terrible. Punching heavy relied on that...

punching heavy uses the steak. The end.

ScampSixteen
01-28-2012, 02:36 AM
You know how, after using/tossing a sandvich, there's a meter that empties, refills over time, and when it's refilled you can use/toss another sandvich? I think it's talking about that.

Thanks for the help! Have some rep.

Kerch
01-28-2012, 02:38 AM
All excellent changes in my opinion.

Rec0nKn1ght
01-28-2012, 02:42 AM
This puts Tomislav in the same league as Natascha. Would prefer something like an ammo pick-up penalty like -50% ammo from crates and dropped weapons.

Sandvich change is bad. They should make it so a dropped sandvich doesn't refill on the timer, but needs a health-pack while at full health, like it was originally. But I can live with this one, it needs changing from what it is now.

Enforcer change I like, hope that makes it into the game proper.

dontango
01-28-2012, 02:48 AM
What i get from this thread:

Having a sandvich and being abled to completely heal oneself while eating it is not a viable option. (because you have to hide in a corner for 10 seconds). No, there must be a possibility to instantly heal myself without any skill because 350 health and spraying with the minigun is hard enough.

Its not like the heavy has a pocket medic 90% of the time, anyways. Right?

xxxVJ300xxx
01-28-2012, 02:49 AM
I only agree with the enforcer change. If they wanna nerf the sandvich, make it heal only 30% health if YOU eat it after it's been thrown down. As for the Tomislav, it already got nerfed enough to be balanced, stop ruining it like you ruined natascha. Brass Beast is kinda under powerd too but only needs a 5% increase in speed when reving.

cirnocirno
01-28-2012, 03:02 AM
I only agree with the enforcer change. If they wanna nerf the sandvich, make it heal only 30% health if YOU eat it after it's been thrown down. As for the Tomislav, it already got nerfed enough to be balanced, stop ruining it like you ruined natascha. Brass Beast is kinda under powerd too but only needs a 5% increase in speed when reving.

You have to thank SPUF for all these new improvements and features !
Without the babies in SPUF we wouldn't have these joyful moments !

As side from all bad jokes, the sandvich change makes me sad, I wanna cry ;_;

Dr.FrankenStein
01-28-2012, 03:08 AM
What i get from this thread:

Having a sandvich and being abled to completely heal oneself while eating it is not a viable option. (because you have to hide in a corner for 10 seconds). No, there must be a possibility to instantly heal myself without any skill because 350 health and spraying with the minigun is hard enough.

Its not like the heavy has a pocket medic 90% of the time, anyways. Right?

This post slaps me on the knee. It's funny cause it's true.

WeirdScout
01-28-2012, 03:16 AM
Tomislav: APPROVED
Sandvich: DOUBLE APPROVED
Enforcer: I would've preferred 1.5 seconds to take DR out, 1 second without this thing equipped.

Magnamancy
01-28-2012, 03:28 AM
I like all changes.

Tomi's been made a more niche designed ambush weapon, the
Sandvich no longer completely dominates the Heavy's shotgun
slot, and I've been after various things for Spy, inculding
the Enforcer, for a long time, all at least imo.

The only one I can't test yet is the Enforcer however, I just
don't have it or anything to get with in the Beta. =p

raptor67
01-28-2012, 03:35 AM
YYYEEEESSSS!!!!

EVERY SINGLE BIT OF THAT BALANCES THE GAME!!!

NovaPixel
01-28-2012, 03:44 AM
WOOOOO!!!!!

Cyberman128
01-28-2012, 03:45 AM
YESYESYESYESYES OH GOD THANK YOU VALVE

stereophonical
01-28-2012, 03:47 AM
That still makes enforcer OP with DR... and you don't need to see HP anyway, you point at it, it dies.

ZerWuerger
01-28-2012, 04:09 AM
I think the sandvich and enforcer nerfs are awesome and long needed, but the tomislav is almost useless now. It should get at least one smaller upside in my opinion

TheFourthSniper
01-28-2012, 04:16 AM
Dem Enforcer nerfs.

RIGHT HO LADS, BACK TO THE AMBASSADOR IT IS!!!

*huthuthut*

Atomic Bang
01-28-2012, 04:42 AM
So much win in one update.
I thought that wasnt possible, but it is.

The sandvich nerf is what Ive been waiting for since the beginning of times.

Rickenlotus
01-28-2012, 04:45 AM
I don't think we should be celebrating just yet, they've made all sorts of tweaks in the beta that just stay in the beta for the sake of experimenting. In this they remove the other -50hp nerf they gave the Tomi a while back.

darkrei
01-28-2012, 04:50 AM
i agree with them all!

now,tomislav is really what i call an ambush weapon!

sandvich is now a perfectly balanced support weapon.

and enforcer has proper downsides!

ah valve,we love you!

LastDay
01-28-2012, 05:01 AM
Sounds good to me!
I never thought of removing your ability to see health as a possible downside to a weapon.

It sure fits the brute force feel of it.
And yeah it really needed a downside when using DR.

Tomislav sounds interesting.
I guess it's finally an ambush weapon like it was meant to be.
We'll see.

The Sandvich change sounds good as well.

-Alx-
01-28-2012, 05:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_VheAwZBuQ

This was my reaction.

My reaction to sandvich nerf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O1hM-k3aUY

Introduce Tomislav, a ♥♥♥♥ weapon which makes heavy OP. SPUF explodes in complaints about heavy being OP. Proceed to nerf sandvich.

Mr.Infidelz^
01-28-2012, 05:07 AM
Ok, I'm gonna do this once only to help you to not look stupid in the future.

The only person that looks stupid is you.

The problem isn't related just to the Sandvich, it's to do with Heavies being able to exploit a team designed mechanic purely for their own sake.

You can throw either the Sandvich or the Buffalo Steak Sandwich on the ground to instantly restore 150HP, couple this with being next to even the smallest of health kits provided the Sandvich/BSS will bring you back up to 300HP, and collecting the medikit will restore your food.

This is a huge problem, as the Heavy is easily the hardest class to kill due to his Health Point pool, especially when combined with other items like the Fists of Steel, even worse when he is accompanied by a Medic.

I'm so glad this change is being tested and hopefully made official, I think it's going to be one of the first ones in a long time that GOOD players can't wait to have included, whilst Heavies that abuse this all the time know it's going to hit them so hard.

The Shotgun also looks much more tempting to use now that these food items aren't an instant deployable medium health pack whenever you see fit.

The Tomislav changes seem pretty decent but not exactly amazing so I guess I'll have to wait and see to call my verdict on that one.

The Enforcer changes do not seem to adjust anything that's really the main problem yet again. I can't see the half a second delay in decloaking and lacking the health information to be much of a detterant for Dr. Enforcercicle Spies, since two to three shots from the Enforcer takes out most light classes at full HP anyway.

HoovyBooletPoot
01-28-2012, 05:13 AM
finally a tomislav nerf turning it to nothing short but useless

"anything you can do I can do better" Sasha to every other minigun

Todi
01-28-2012, 05:18 AM
Still need something for the Liberty Launcher, maybe more time between each shoot ? Can´t stand the Strange Liberty Launcher Soldiers with Pocket-Medic who are calling themselves pro ~~

Jukspa
01-28-2012, 05:32 AM
Finally. :)

Jackassman
01-28-2012, 05:38 AM
I disagree with the tomislav nerf, (but the sandvich and enforcer nerfs are fine).
This would make tomislav useless. So it would be easier if they removed it from the game instead of nerfing it this way... And this is because some newbie started to cry about tomislav is op. If Vavle listen to these cries im not suprised there is unbalanced things in the game...
(and no, im not using tomislav, im using iron curtain)

Dr. Sabotage
01-28-2012, 05:40 AM
I disagree with the tomislav nerf, (but the sandvich and enforcer nerfs are fine).
This would make tomislav useless.



This is pretty much the point of the nerf, you know.

Jackassman
01-28-2012, 05:41 AM
This is pretty much the point of the nerf, you know.

No, nerfs are to make balance, not to make weapons useless.

plesi42
01-28-2012, 05:46 AM
-Tomislav nerf makes it useless. Natascha treatment. Instead of balancing it, downgraded and forgotten.
Not cool.

-Enforcer nerf is good. Not knowing enemy's health is a good balance to a stronger weapon. It's like, if you want to try your luck and gun down someone, you have to go all out. Risk vs reward.

-Sandvich nerf is good. BUT if this also applies to the steak, it will turn the steak from "not so good" to "horrible".
So good nerf, but just for the sandvich.
Knowing Valve, they'll make it global and it will affect both, but who knows...


Two things that all unlocks, buffs and nerfs should be based on:
-BALANCE (sidegrade, not downgrade, not upgrade)
-ALTERNATE PLAYSTYLE (fun, different, useful)
An alternate playstyle can be an upgrade or downgrade based on the user's playstyle preferences. (variety, options)
Not based on the user's general skill (crutches)

al_cojone
01-28-2012, 05:46 AM
NOOOOOOOOO !!!! If these changes go official i quit tf2.

Tito Shivan
01-28-2012, 05:47 AM
I wake up and see they updated the Beta, nice.
Totally in favor of the sandvitch nerf. It always seemed me a cheap tactic. Now it can be the team mechanic it was supposed to be.

I'll have to play the enforcer to check the impact of the nerf. As i don't see its theorical impact when combined with the DR.


I disagree with the tomislav nerf, (but the sandvich and enforcer nerfs are fine).
This would make tomislav useless. So it would be easier if they removed it from the game instead of nerfing it this way... And this is because some newbie started to cry about tomislav is op. If Vavle listen to these cries im not suprised there is unbalanced things in the game...
(and no, im not using tomislav, im using iron curtain)

Disagree, the changes still make the tommy a good ambush weapon. Only those terrible heavies who couldn't even plan when to rev the weapon up will see the difference. Now the weapon will be used as it was supposed to.
I really prefer this change over the reducing health one.

Rickenlotus
01-28-2012, 05:59 AM
Still need something for the Liberty Launcher, maybe more time between each shoot ? Can´t stand the Strange Liberty Launcher Soldiers with Pocket-Medic who are calling themselves pro ~~Liberty Launcher sucks dude.

NOOOOOOOOO !!!! If these changes go official i quit tf2.No offense but if you only played Heavy then good riddance. :X

DarkShard25
01-28-2012, 06:08 AM
The Sandvich nerf is unnecessary, but everything else is good. Glad to see
Valve using the beta again.

wazdakka
01-28-2012, 06:08 AM
YES! YES!

i like believe in you once more

Incarnati0n
01-28-2012, 06:08 AM
This is a beautiful day

All of those changes are great

Now we only have to wait on GRU and Spycicle

kaboomonme
01-28-2012, 06:12 AM
I love Valve.
XoxOxoxoXOXOXOXOxoxoxoxo

Ebithio
01-28-2012, 06:13 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO

MCMackers
01-28-2012, 06:14 AM
RIP perfectly balanced weapon.

gomixy
01-28-2012, 06:16 AM
Ya know, it still makes me want to stab myself everytime someone calls silent spin up a small upside.
Guess what else is a small downside? -17.5% damage reduction

Dinoman96
01-28-2012, 06:20 AM
RIP perfectly balanced weapon.

It's people like you that let TF2 decay with badly thought out and overpowered weapons.

Ebithio
01-28-2012, 06:22 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO

gomixy
01-28-2012, 06:23 AM
It's people like you that let TF2 decay with badly thought out and overpowered weapons.

True

The deadly triangle of the most OP weapons is almost nerfed.
Enforcer-check
Tomislav-check
Gru-......

Sandwich nerf was needed, just wasn't as urgent as The top 3

Incarnati0n
01-28-2012, 06:27 AM
True

The deadly triangle of the most OP weapons is almost nerfed.
Enforcer-check
Tomislav-check
Gru-......

Sandwich nerf was needed, just wasn't as urgent as The top 3

Wait

hold on

...don't tell me they forgot to remove the Steak health pickup

gomixy
01-28-2012, 06:30 AM
Wait

hold on

...don't tell me they forgot to remove the Steak health pickup

They didn't

They just grouped steak and sandvich m2 together in the nerf
Steak for speed
Sanvich for heals

Incarnati0n
01-28-2012, 06:35 AM
They didn't

They just grouped steak and sandvich m2 together in the nerf
Steak for speed
Sanvich for heals
thank God, forgetting the m2 of the Steak would be exactly one of those things Valve would do

Now the only weapons we need to see nerfed are GRU and perhaps FoS and Spycicle

IRA625
01-28-2012, 06:39 AM
thank God, forgetting the m2 of the Steak would be exactly one of those things Valve would do

Now the only weapons we need to see nerfed are GRU and perhaps FoS and Spycicle

FoS?

Anyway.

Sodapopper and the Liberty Launcher. Pronto.

Sodapopper is minicrits on demand and Liberty Launcher is pretty much just the Direct hit without the explosion radius nerf. Enjoy dodging that ♥♥♥♥.

Gigoweal
01-28-2012, 06:46 AM
If these changes do get into the game I don't see any usefulness in using the Tomislav. It had always sucked at long range or even medium range and now...close range too? The only benefit would be no barrel spin sound? Pass.

The Sandvich nerf...oh well might as well use it with GRU only. Run far away when you hit close to 50% health and eat?

The Enforcer nerfs:
I have another idea; how about it fires 1-10% slower? "Unable to see enemy health" is no nerf when this hand cannon is really strong.