Say good-bye to selfless modding :'(

[danjako43]

The construction set is being integrated with the steam workshop. I'm sure you all know that.

The workshop is a terrible place since it is "working" its way up on charging players alot money once it has enough modders and games integrated with it. Sound familiar? TF 2 store. Except in your mind, you know that the ♥♥♥♥ they are charging you for SHOULD be free.

It's like Valve's system of Modern Warfare Elite, except alot lot more minor, but still, it's heading there...

Here, take a read: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement

Valve may choose to distribute Your Contribution [mods] for free and/or for a fee.

They're gonna take modders' stuff, and possibly sell them back as "DLC's"

This has REALLY HUGE implications on the modding community since modding is free. It's supposed to be free. It's for the good of the gaming community. Mods are supposed to be free fun. It's like going into a sandbox, and they charge you for every grain of sand that is bigger than a certain size, or look different from the average grain of sand.

Also, the EULA states:
...If Valve chooses to distribute Your Contribution for a fee, then Valve may set the price for such distribution in its sole discretion, and Valve will pay You as follows, conditioned on Your compliance with the obligations contained in this Agreement.

...Valve shall pay to You twenty-five percent (25%) of the Adjusted Gross Revenue...


I'm not against modders making money. I do think they deserve money for their work, but they SHOULD NOT charge players for their work. They should get money in ad revenue or such tactics. Remember? Macho Dragon? Had millions of views on youtube. Millions of views + link to download mod + ads on link = someone will click on those ads thus making the modder some money in some wa. Or, they can make money in some other non-intrusive way, but as soon as a mod costs just one cent, it ceases to be a "mod"--it would then become a paid downloadable content.

Mods are made to change the game to players' liking, not to charge other players for them.

I don't know, make it what you will, but I'm certain that the workshop idea is stupid, unnecessary, and I sure as hell won't be using it.

[derrman0426]

I believe that only relates to Team Fortress 2, since items that get added to the game are put in the store to be sold.

There might be paid Skyrim mods, but knowing Valve they would have to be really good, not just model/texture replacements, but full conversion mods that would be a whole new game all together.

[ShadowKazama]

The construction set is being integrated with the steam workshop. I'm sure you all know that.

The workshop is a terrible place since it is "working" its way up on charging players alot money once it has enough modders and games integrated with it. Sound familiar? TF 2 store. Except in your mind, you know that the ♥♥♥♥ they are charging you for SHOULD be free.

It's like Valve's system of Modern Warfare Elite, except alot lot more minor, but still, it's heading there...

Here, take a read: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement



They're gonna take modders' stuff, and possibly sell them back as "DLC's"

This has REALLY HUGE implications on the modding community since modding is free. It's supposed to be free. It's for the good of the gaming community. Mods are supposed to be free fun. It's like going into a sandbox, and they charge you for every grain of sand that is bigger than a certain size, or look different from the average grain of sand.

Also, the EULA states:


I'm not against modders making money. I do think they deserve money for their work, but they SHOULD NOT charge players for their work. They should get money in ad revenue or such tactics. Remember? Macho Dragon? Had millions of views on youtube. Millions of views + link to download mod + ads on link = someone will click on those ads thus making the modder some money in some wa. Or, they can make money in some other non-intrusive way, but as soon as a mod costs just one cent, it ceases to be a "mod"--it would then become a paid downloadable content.

Mods are made to change the game to players' liking, not to charge other players for them.

I don't know, make it what you will, but I'm sure that the workshop idea is stupid, unnecessary, and I sure as hell won't be using it.


Just because they add the possibility of a fee doses not mean they will charge for mods. It is simply covering their legal bases. All companies add extra parts to their TOS/TOU that will ever get used.

Most people will also be uploading their mods to the Skyrim Nexus. If it is offered for free elsewhere, why charge for it anyways?

If they do charge though, the modders will be getting a cut. It may even help increase the quality of mods.

And I would never refer to a player made mod as DLC. DLC is an officially made add-on, never a community made one.

[deadlybydesign]

Y u no like convenience?

The workshop idea is great, and I agree that this is probably just Valve covering their bases. The Nexus will still be around, as Valve will likely have a policy for all of you nude mod fans (which I don't understand), and this offers a more convenient mod experience for the rest of us.

[danjako43]

And I would never refer to a player made mod as DLC. DLC is an officially made add-on, never a community made one.

Refer to it what you like, but paid content is paid content. It's like poop is poop. You can call it crap, ♥♥♥♥, feces, etc. It's the same thing.

Y u no like convenience?

The workshop idea is great, and I agree that this is probably just Valve covering their bases. The Nexus will still be around, as Valve will likely have a policy for all of you nude mod fans (which I don't understand), and this offers a more convenient mod experience for the rest of us.

Try to install script mods properly with the workshop, then see no convenient it is when you're pulling out your hair.

[This_Guy]

So? Bethesda takes the work of modders and sells it in their next Elder Scrolls game. See companions, dual wielding, better archery, etc. Heaven forbid the people who take the time to make a good mod get compensation for their work...

[ShadowKazama]

Try to install script mods properly with the workshop, then see no convenient it is when you're pulling out your hair.

Sorry? Is the workshop out yet?

The current scripts are not from an official editor, so they will have problems. If people can install them from the Nexus just fine, then why would they not install fine from the work shop too?

The new editor will support a lot more then what the community has right now. It even has a script editor in it.

You are object to something that may not even happen. Wait until it happens before getting all getting all defensive about it.

Remember, the world ends on 12/21/2012. Better party now and empty out our bank account, quit your job, ect!

[MMZ>Torak]

The construction set is being integrated with the steam workshop. I'm sure you all know that.

The workshop is a terrible place since it is "working" its way up on charging players alot money once it has enough modders and games integrated with it. Sound familiar? TF 2 store. Except in your mind, you know that the ♥♥♥♥ they are charging you for SHOULD be free.

It's like Valve's system of Modern Warfare Elite, except alot lot more minor, but still, it's heading there...

Here, take a read: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement



They're gonna take modders' stuff, and possibly sell them back as "DLC's"

This has REALLY HUGE implications on the modding community since modding is free. It's supposed to be free. It's for the good of the gaming community. Mods are supposed to be free fun. It's like going into a sandbox, and they charge you for every grain of sand that is bigger than a certain size, or look different from the average grain of sand.

Also, the EULA states:


I'm not against modders making money. I do think they deserve money for their work, but they SHOULD NOT charge players for their work. They should get money in ad revenue or such tactics. Remember? Macho Dragon? Had millions of views on youtube. Millions of views + link to download mod + ads on link = someone will click on those ads thus making the modder some money in some wa. Or, they can make money in some other non-intrusive way, but as soon as a mod costs just one cent, it ceases to be a "mod"--it would then become a paid downloadable content.

Mods are made to change the game to players' liking, not to charge other players for them.

I don't know, make it what you will, but I'm certain that the workshop idea is stupid, unnecessary, and I sure as hell won't be using it.

It is my understanding that you CANNOT charge for mods. Don't expect Steam to be selling them.

Clicky (http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1339107-bethesda-paid-mod-subscription-service/page__view__findpost__p__20170866)

[Psycho78]

The only thing that will suck is if the creation kit mods can only be used with Steam Workshop. But I doubt that will be the case.

[ShadowKazama]

The only thing that will suck is if the creation kit mods can only be used with Steam Workshop. But I doubt that will be the case.

The have an option to upload to steam for convenience, that is it. There is still an option to save that allows the mod to be uploaded else where.

There will still be the unofficial editors and such that people are currently using.

[superboyofmeat]

u serious?

FYI it is illegal for modders to make money from mods (except donations). If any modder charged for mods Bethesda could sue them easily.

The same goes for steam. The reason they charge for TF2 integration is because, you guessed it, they own TF2. They can legally do that (but do note most of the money goes to the modder anyways).

In this case, they can not legally charge for mods that

1. They did not make and
2. For a game they didn't publish.

Your fears are unfounded, there will never be a pay for mod service.

[MMZ>Torak]

The have an option to upload to steam for continence, that is it.

LOL!

I don't think you meant that...

:eek:

[ShadowKazama]

LOL!

I don't think you meant that...

:eek:

Sorry, horrible speller here, I rely too much on spell check. :p

Omg...I just looked it up too. At least people can't see me turning red. :(

[Sygnus21]

Just because they add the possibility of a fee doses not mean they will charge for mods. It is simply covering their legal bases. All companies add extra parts to their TOS/TOU that will ever get used.

I'm not a modder so this is out of my element but the above statement is faulty logic. The whole point is that Valve has chosen to leave themselves the option of doing such a thing. That's the point. It's sort of like saying I reserve the right to read your computer files anytime I want, but it doesn't mean I'll do it, but I can if I want to.

The point is "if" they do decide to do it, you have no choice because you agreed to it, even if you didn't think they were serious!

The courts are full of contract cases where people have been "gotten" because they didn't think that paragraph was serious, that the company wouldn't do such a thing, even though the person signing the contract agreed they could do it.

The courts view.... it was in the contract you signed!

[superboyofmeat]

snip

You are missing the point by a long shot. This, in the user agreement, is reffering to Valve. You are right, Valve has the right to make specific content for a game THEY PUBLISHED have a price tag. Valve did not publish Skyrim, they have 0 right to charge for any content involving it.

At the end of the day, the only people who can charge for mods is Bethesda, since it is their content being published. There is no reason to fear for payed for mods. AT all.

This is something that confuses many

Steam =/= Valve. Steam is a distribution Company, Valve is a developer. They are seperate legal entities.

The OP took a term of service wildly out of context and is blowing it out of proportion for attention/fearmongering.

[Lord Delmar]

Sorry, horrible speller here, I rely too much on spell check. :p

Omg...I just looked it up too. At least people can't see me turning red. :(

At least INcontinence is not a side effect of bad mods.. :)

On topic :

While not a lawyer, I do understand EULA's and TOS agreements and I can with 99.9% certainty tell you that they will not charge for mods. They have that up for the TF2 items as its part of the Steam Workshop as well.

The only way I could see them charging anything at all is for bandwidth costs, but that is a grey area and since both Valve and Bethesda are really stoked about this, I doubt anyone would push that issue in the interest of mutual cooperation.

The statements about not being able to charge for mods will likely be part of the EULA on the Creation Kit when it is released.

I can see Bethesda having a paragraph in the EULA about any content that is created with the Creation Kit being their intellectual property and they are free to add it (or the idea at least) into the game or future games, but that is also one of those "grey" areas that would cause more problems. Not only would it alienate the modders but would likely kill any future relationships with modders.

The OP did have a point at the beginning but after further reading, I will respectfully disagree and say that it will only happen if EA bought them out. :o

[ShadowKazama]

I'm not a modder so this is out of my element but the above statement is faulty logic. The whole point is that Valve has chosen to leave themselves the option of doing such a thing. That's the point. It's sort of like saying I reserve the right to read your computer files anytime I want, but it doesn't mean I'll do it, but I can if I want to.

The point is "if" they do decide to do it, you have no choice because you agreed to it, even if you didn't think they were serious!

The courts are full of contract cases where people have been "gotten" because they didn't think that paragraph was serious, that the company wouldn't do such a thing, even though the person signing the contract agreed they could do it.

The courts view.... it was in the contract you signed!

And things like this are in every contract TOS and TOU you have ever greed to. They reserve the right (for instance) not support their game after release, or WoW for example has the right to ban your account at any time for any reason.

Just because it is there does not mean they will. I am not saying they won't. It is there to cover the possibility po doing to in the future, depending on other legal factors, ie: if the owner of the game will allow it.

[NoBridges]

Nothing good can come from this. Next thing you know, games will only support mods from steam. Then suddenly valve comes up with an idea of charging a buck per mod.

It'll happen, mark my words. With all the steam babys supporting it, it's the end of modding as we know it.

[Zora-Link]

Steam =/= Valve. Steam is a distribution Company, Valve is a developer. They are seperate legal entities.


No. Steam is the distribution program owned and updated by Valve. It has no 'thoughts' of its own. It's a program. Nothing more.

[porknugget]

I see no problems with getting your mods through steam. Maybe it will keep out the modders who want to turn this game into a dog ♥♥♥♥ing simulator.:p

[Tripiṭaka]

"FYI it is illegal for modders to make money from mods"

I don't think that can be the case. As long as the modder is not reusing Bethesda assets they'd be fine.
In any event it would not be "illegal" as in a crime. They could sue you for damages, not put you in jail.

Steam/Bethesda click-wrap eula is meaningless outside of united states.

[apg]

whats all the fuss about ........ skyrim nexus is free and always will be. end of discussion, if someone isnt happy with steams workshop just go to the nexus, i know i will always stay with the nexus.

[monkeyroach]

Steam Workshop – We’re excited to share news that we’ve been working closely with Valve to integrate Steam Workshop into the Creation Kit. Using the Workshop, you’ll have free user content with the push of a button. The Creation Kit will bundle your mod and upload it to the Workshop, where everyone can browse, rate, and flag mods for download. You’ll be able to do this from any web device, including your smartphone. Like a live Netflix queue, when you fire up Skyrim, mods you flagged will be automatically downloaded and installed. Everyone here is really excited about the opportunities and possibilities this opens up for our entire community.

Prefer to use existing modding sites? Not a problem. You’ll still be able to upload/share/access Skyrim mods on fan-created mod sites.

I'm sorry but where are you guys getting this information from? Bethesda already said you host on steam or wherever you like.

[NoBridges]

I'm sorry but where are you guys getting this information from?Bethesda already said you host on steam or wherever you like.

For now.

[GirlPower23]

This only relates to TF2.. stop complaining. Nobody has to use Steam Workshop either.. there is always Nexus as well if you are concerned about literally nothing.

You are ALSO aware that the people who get selected on the TF2 Workshop to have their items sold get a portion of the money that is earned from it. So even if by some slim chance this ever happened for Skyrim, the modders would get paid for their hard work. With that said, NO, this is not related to Skyrim, it will never be related to Skyrim. Take off your tinfoil hat.

[Greenasp]

Wow, some SERIOUS FUD going on here. That's it. No basis in reality here, at all. Bethesda games have a long history of modders making stuff for free. It's one of the huge appeals (to me, anyway) of the games. Bethesda is not about to strike down years of good will by doing that.

And to the people that said 'since when can we get good stuff for free?' You've obviously never downloaded mods for any Bethesda games before. There have been some really nice things to come from the community. For years, now.

Do something more productive with your time besides spreading FUD.

[5thhors]

I for one would have loved this back when I did modding for quake 3 ..
we spent hundreds of hours making TrueCombat and all the content if I would have gotten even a little monetary support I would have gone ballistic ..
on the down side this does force a mod maker to be careful of what exactly he is trying to do if he plans on selling it.
no blatant copying of any other IP and or using similar textures either

[Micknator]

The preview video also said that you can still save mods the old way.

[HornetOne85]

For now.

Thats not a basis for an argument. You can't claim something is "for now" without providing any proof that it will eventually change.

I can just claim the world will end by the end of this year, and when someone comes along and say that everything indicates it won't, I'll just say for now anyway.

Unless I can prove why it will change, I cannot simply make up false claims.

[MMZ>Torak]

I cannot simply make up false claims.

Well, technically, you can make up all the false claims you want (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2512632). Doesn't mean anyone has to take you seriously...

:p

[albone20]

I'm sticking to Nexus for now.

[crazy547]

The thing about tf2 is easy to explain.

After mannconomy was added the shop came with, people on the forums ofc. went totally against the idea however it is made for the people who actually make decent content to the game and that wants some of the profit some of the guys that had made their stuff for this in a competition about making a set for each class made a lot of money for working with this

Yeah it's decent quality did I buy any of the sets? Nope I crafted most of them, yeah you heard it I crafted it!.
You can still find the items in the game but you can also buy them if you don't wanna waste time on trying to get lucky with the current drop system in tf2.

Most people should know this by now :cool:

I don't think Bethesda ever will say that people have to pay for mods since they know their games live off modders work however I'm sure some modders might like to get a cut of their work, however as the correct state is that's never going to happen since modding the game is free :) and the steam workshop is just for us lazy folk who want our mods to auto update and mainly just wanna browse steam quickly for a mod or skin pack :D

[Sygnus21]

You are missing the point

Snip.....

Its actually you who missed my point (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28922786#post28922786) by a long shot.

My point is the verbage put in Steam's "Contribution Agreement" statement....

Valve may choose to distribute Your Contribution for free and/or for a fee. If Valve chooses to distribute Your Contribution for a fee, then Valve may set the price for such distribution in its sole discretion, and Valve will pay You as follows, conditioned on Your compliance with the obligations contained in this Agreement.

By signing (clicking the "submit" or "accept" button) you agree they can do what's put in the Contribution Agreement: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement - What point did I miss??? Re-read my post.

As to who owns what, that's another matter.

[BeaverMon]

What I'm thinking, Valve isn't going to be the one that chooses. It's the modder that will probably have a thing where they can choose it to be free, or for a fee.

[alehm]

Just because Valve charges for items in TF2, their own game, doesn't mean they are going to or have the legal right to charge for mods in another developers game. That is soley up to Bethesda and most likely they will not charge for mods since they have always supported the mod community for free PLUS whatever mod Steam has will be available for free at other sites.

Come on why do people always go the shadowy greedy corporation angle on any piece of news? Valve is one of the only companies that releases DLC for FREE and all we can do is complain about the DLC and tell everyone they are going to nickle and dime us.... some day.

[Kratier]

if this encourages professionally done mod teams pumping out cheaper and more effective types of DLC, i would support it

i do not support the nexus site, as its a cesspool of degenerates spreading their filth

mod makers being able to charge money for the mods = them being able to have an income based off the mods = them being able to update the mods and improve them more often

this would also stop bethesda and other dev companies from ripping off code and ideas from modding teams, like how they did for most of obsidian's new vegas game

[ShadowKazama]

What I'm thinking, Valve isn't going to be the one that chooses. It's the modder that will probably have a thing where they can choose it to be free, or for a fee.

Except that the Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks include parts in their TOS/TOY/EULA for the editor that you need to agree to that say you will not charge for mods.

That is what stops modders from charging. I'm sure many of them would charge if given a choice.

The option for Valve to charge for mods has always been there. It is nothing new.

Though they have the option, the backlash alone makes it a bad idea to actually do so. At least with Skyrim, they won't be charging for mods.

Who know what the future holds, though? That is why they include it in there, even if they won't use it. So they have the option to use it on future projects.

[superboyofmeat]

What point did I miss??? Re-read my post.

The point that Skyrim isn't a Valve game. these Terms of service only apply to a game from Valve, so unless you are talking about how you think its stupid for them to charge for TF2 content than your reply to his is pointless.

Valve cannot in anyway charge for any of the mods released for Skyrim period. It is up to bethesda to offer fees, and they arent going to do that for anything unless its their content as they have in the past.

[Haldur]

First of all, REGARDLESS of what Steam says, there are going to be free mods -- remember that there are loads of modders out there (myself included) who will either use Skyrim Nexus to distribute their mods, or will make them available in multiple locations (if practical, including Steamworks, but if not, not).

In any case, it's Bethesda's game, and Steam is a business that is providing them with a service that they deserve to be paid for. The problem here, though, is that Steamworks isn't officially live yet, and several free alternatives (namely Nexus and other websites) already have a large set of cutomers who are used to getting their mods either free of charge, or with a system of voluntary donations (as is traditional).

What I WOULD be afraid of is any legal maneuverings to do away with Nexus and other website's rights to distribute mods, which would then open the door for charging a fee for access to previously free mods. But I don't see that happening. So calm down.

I have nothing against paid mods, personally -- IF they are good enough, I might even spring some money for them (notably, significant DLCs, or full expansions). But free mods are not going away.

[bewilderedronin]

TF 2 store. Except in your mind, you know that the ♥♥♥♥ they are charging you for SHOULD be free.


All of the hats and weapons in the store ARE free. You can get them via drops. You don't HAVE to buy anything. The only thing that you can't get in drops is keys, name tags, gift wrap, and presents. All cosmetic.

They're gonna take modders' stuff, and possibly sell them back as "DLC's"
Proof? Where has Bethesda ever said they plan on doing that? Furthermore, where is BETHESDA's ToS/EULA that states that they can do this? Valve can't do squat with Skyrim. It's not their product. Bethesda/ZeniMax own Skyrim. Valve can't do ♥♥♥♥ with it except allow or refuse it on Steam.

All of that stuff relates to TF2 and Valve's products. Just because something gets published via the Steam Workshop does NOT mean Valve/Steam gets control over it.

[Hippy Druid]

if this encourages professionally done mod teams pumping out cheaper and more effective types of DLC, i would support it

i do not support the nexus site, as its a cesspool of degenerates spreading their filth

mod makers being able to charge money for the mods = them being able to have an income based off the mods = them being able to update the mods and improve them more often

this would also stop bethesda and other dev companies from ripping off code and ideas from modding teams, like how they did for most of obsidian's new vegas game


^^This.

Let's face it, mod websites for any game are just full of crap.
Get out your wellies and go digging; sure you will eventually find some gold buried in there, but most of it just sticks like crap and is hard to get off. Even if you do manage to get it off, chances are you will still get the odd lingering wiff to come and ruin your day.

A site where content 'might' received quality testing before 'possibly' being charged for.
A site where the content will be easier to find and implement.
A site hosted by a reputable entity with regular updates.
A site where modders might be able make a buck or two on their own creations, giving them added incentive to be even more creative.

Yeh - What were they thinking? :rolleyes: <---- I'm being sarcastic.

[Haldur]

There's a number of problems with you're saying, but the only really significant one is that IT AIN'T HAPPENING! Like most, it's a conspiracy in search of a reality for it to be true in.

In any case, I like TES Nexus in SPITE of all of the crap mods that are there, because it democratizes the modding community -- everyone can produce what they can, and let the public choose what THEY think is for them. If you don't do the research to pick a candidate (mod) that is right for you, then it's your own damn fault.

The only other way of handling it, would involve teams of strangers reviewing every file and update and having them decide for you (after weeks of testing) what you can actually play. That costs money and time, and undoubtedly will not result in a superior experience (other than having fewer choices and an additional person with their hand out for your hard-earned money). Instead, YOU get to decide to either BE the test audience, or to wait and see what those brave and selfless (unpaid) volunteers decide, and even then, you can decide for yourself.

Democracy at its finest.

[Dungeoncrawler]

There might be paid Skyrim mods,

Every Bethesda game has paid mods; their called dlc. They are basically just an official mod for their game(s).

[ShadowKazama]

Every Bethesda game has paid mods; their called dlc. They are basically just an official mod for their game(s).

Mod = A change or addition made by the community.

DLC = A change or addition made by the developer or paid to be made for the developer .

The same, but different.

[Dungeoncrawler]

Mod = A change or addition made by the community.

DLC = A change or addition made by the developer or paid to be made for the developer .

The same, but different.

If you consider that most mods released by the community destroy anything the developers release, you can argue those descriptions are mute :)

[bewilderedronin]

BTW, if you watch the Creation Kit trailer (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/02/01/skyrim-creation-kit-trailer-shows-mod-tools-in-action/), it shows the options of "Save Plugin and Upload Archive to Steam" as well as an option to "Create Archive."

So, yeah, you'll most likely still be able to upload to nexus and elsewhere. So, at the very least, we know that you're not forced to upload to Steam.

[ShadowKazama]

If you consider that most mods released by the community destroy anything the developers release, you can argue those descriptions are mute :)

How so?

The difference is who makes them, that is all. Regardless if the community makes better mods or not.

It just makes a clear definition between the two to avoid confusion. And explains why one is paid and the other is not.

And I have yet to see a player made mod beat the Shivering Isles or Knights of the Nine.

[Sygnus21]

The point that Skyrim isn't a Valve game. these Terms of service only apply to a game from Valve, so unless you are talking about how you think its stupid for them to charge for TF2 content than your reply to his is pointless.

Valve cannot in anyway charge for any of the mods released for Skyrim period. It is up to bethesda to offer fees, and they arent going to do that for anything unless its their content as they have in the past.

Dude you're arguing just to be arguing. If you actually read my post, and noted the quote, you'd get what I'm saying.

And I never said, or indicated, that Valve should charge for a game they don't own, I never said, mentioned, or indicated anything about TF2 and what Valve is or isn't doing with it. All I commented on was what's in the Contribution Agreement, and I'm simply saying that if you sign it, you agree to the terms.

You may be arguing about the legality of that statement, fine, but I'm pointing out that as long as it's there, and you agree to it, Valve, Steam, Bethesda, whoever, can decide to charge for the content created with that kit. That's my ONLY point!

Wheter that statement belongs there or not is entirely another matter, and one beyond my pay grade.

And BTW, my reply was directed towards ShadowKazama statement...

Just because they add the possibility of a fee doses not mean they will charge for mods. It is simply covering their legal bases. All companies add extra parts to their TOS/TOU that will ever get used.

Which is an entirely a different argument. Re-read my post and note that I quoted him in my reply.

Peace.

[Haldur]

And I have yet to see a player made mod beat the Shivering Isles or Knights of the Nine.
OOO in particular (and several others in their own way) beat any of Bethesda's mods-- they added far more content than either of those two, by completely changing the game.

That said, I would have gladly paid to play OOO, if it would have meant Oscuro spending more time maintaining and updating it. Although I don't see how that would have been physically possible for any normal human being.

[ShadowKazama]

OOO in particular (and several others in their own way) beat any of Bethesda's mods-- they added far more content than either of those two, by completely changing the game.

That said, I would have gladly paid to play OOO, if it would have meant Oscuro spending more time maintaining and updating it. Although I don't see how that would have been physically possible for any normal human being.

Still never heard of it.

Just looked it up though.

That is probably why it would be better for a mod like that on Steam too. It looks great, but the average user would have problems installing it.

I know I could do it, but I don't use mods because of the headache that is often involved with the few I have tried.

[CaptVimes]

A hat is =/= a mod. I dont understand this rant Valve have been one of the most supportive publishers to modders and the community.

The closest thing to a mod in TF2 is the maps and they have not charged for community maps. The community weapons can also be pretty easily crafted or picked up for free. You are comparing apples to oranges and going into hysteria.

Besides I dont see how any of this should change how Bethesda do deal with their mod community.

Though some things may change, a lot of companies have had success with micro transactions but that has been arguably more successful outside of steam through WoW and social network games. If Bethesda do go that route it will be just as possible with or without steamworks.

At least we have had some official patches now that its on steam.

PS. there are plenty of source engine free mods on steam for HL2 and TF2.

[Mr.Ceefus]

Valve wouldn't do this to us... I hope.

[RiskyFrisky]

We can still upload our mods to other things...

[Sygnus21]

Perhaps this should have been pointed out earlier to clarify the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt)

This Contribution Agreement ("Agreement") is a legal document between you, the contributor (“You”) and Valve Corporation ("Valve"). It explains Your rights and obligations as a contributor to one or more Valve video games ("Valve Game(s)"). Please read it carefully. You must agree and accept to these terms as set out below: changes, additions and deletions are not acceptable.

This it talking about VALVE games, NOT Skyrim (Bethesda), or other company's games!!! VALVE ONLY!

Can we calm down now???

[laquak]

Lol in this current ecomony of angry bird gamers and just about everyone unemployed I can see why they are doing it.

It's business, nothing personal.

Me, my Skyrim file is unmodded and will never be. I'll gladly pay for official content though.

[superboyofmeat]

Me, my Skyrim file is unmodded and will never be.

I will never understand someone who has a PC and refuses to mod.

Can your PC not handle texture mods/custom shaders for better visuals?

Thats the only legitimate reason I could ever understand, because there will always be pleanty of lore friendly and fantastic mods that will make this game better for anyone. Theres more than just nudie mods ya know.

[laquak]

I will never understand someone who has a PC and refuses to mod.

Can your PC not handle texture mods/custom shaders for better visuals?

Thats the only legitimate reason I could ever understand, because there will always be pleanty of lore friendly and fantastic mods that will make this game better for anyone. Theres more than just nudie mods ya know.

I dont know I just dont see modding this game will make anything different for me *shrugs*. Visualy and gameplay wise my Skyrim experience was more than playable and looked good from the release date. Once I figured out turning of AA/AF increased my performance greatly without reducing graphics I never looked back and I never really cared for visuals as the game graphics are extremely dated anyway. Looking at the current mods they dont look any different then what my Skyrim looks like so I just deal without them. I enjoyed the gameplay even though linear and non immersive but I had to since I wanted to get everything done in game and I did. I know players will make quests and what not but I am not really moved by it unless I see a benefit of it for me personaly. I commend and respect modders as I code for a fighting video game engine myself and create content for that engine with good, nay great content actualy so I know the work and dedication these put and will put in their mods I just dont see a benefit for me for some reason.

And I hate hentai so thats that to nudy mods hehe.

[Zebideedee]

As long as we can try before we buy I don't mind. So many mods on Nexus I tried and didn't like, the work put into them is commendable but if it's not my cup of tea then it gets removed.