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View Full Version : no...create your own merc? wow


salesninja
02-09-2012, 01:24 PM
you gotta be kidding me, that was one of my favorite parts!

cujoonwheels
02-09-2012, 01:37 PM
I know, MAJOR disappointment there

Mud0ra
02-09-2012, 01:44 PM
I don't know but in the steam store says something about create your merc from unique mercenary units or something like that. :p
I was interested in that feature too. Maybe you need unlock something for this? :S

sweeper240
02-09-2012, 01:47 PM
IMP needs to be brought back... why did they remove it... :(

Jeslijar
02-09-2012, 02:06 PM
The developers thought it would ruin the game to have Create your own Merc because balance would be broken.

The developers also thought it would ruin the game to have fog of war "It wasn't fun"



To me it sounds like the developers ruined the game because of what they thought. Maybe they were too used to COD, Halo and Battlefield and went with the dumbed down simple options because they didn't want to follow in the footsteps of good (niche) tactical games like.... Fallout Tactics (and 1+2), Silent Storm + Silent Storm Sentinels, and of course the original JA1+2.

IMHO: The second they chose a strategy title they should have went with the niche aspect instead of fighting it. Line of sight is always a very important tactical element. Creating your own character gives you something that you can make your own and sometimes can give you a good sense of immersion in a game.

Instead mainstream will have no interest in this game, and it doesn't fulfill a very good niche spot.

It's too bad. JA2 was really a great game.

NightLight
02-09-2012, 02:06 PM
I concur. It is really disappointing. That is not the only one too, although its a major one for me. I havent event started the mission yet browsing the computer and email hoping that I missed it, only to find out the IMP is not there...

And then found out I cant hire link yet because I cant afford him. Apparently once you hire a merc, they are with you for good, thats why the hiring fee is super increased.

LtChambers
02-09-2012, 02:12 PM
Yeah, I want to hire Link too, but Zelda won't let him come. :(

LtChambers
02-09-2012, 02:14 PM
Fallout Tactics (and 1+2), Silent Storm + Silent Storm Sentinels, and of course the original JA1+2.

Are these games good in the sense that they drove their originating companies to bankruptcy for being too niche? Let's not forget E5 and E6 from Apeiron, also defunct.

NightLight
02-09-2012, 02:25 PM
Yeah, I want to hire Link too, but Zelda won't let him come. :(

Hehe, nice one. I just couldnt think of his name right now, weird considering i spent godly amount of hours with JA2. Lynx, is it? :)

Neonwarrior
02-09-2012, 02:34 PM
Nevermind, this game sucks.

Jeslijar
02-09-2012, 02:42 PM
Are these games good in the sense that they drove their originating companies to bankruptcy for being too niche? Let's not forget E5 and E6 from Apeiron, also defunct.

When interplay died it sold off Fallout to Bethesda, who has been making mint on a spinoff as you well know. Fallout 3(the original non bethesda one), and Fallout tactics 2 were in development when it went under suggesting that they were both successful games...

I know nothing of apeiron... But Nival (the people who made silent storm) are still in business. They stopped developing Silent Storm games after the third one, hammer & sickle was a total, bugged failure.


I don't think the tactical games were the failing of any of the companies. I don't know what happened to sir-tech to cause it's demise after the release of JA2+UB and Wizardry 8. It is possible that JA2 put it under.... but I doubt it.

spacebugO_O
02-09-2012, 03:30 PM
sir-tech? Don't you mean Talonsoft?

Jeslijar
02-09-2012, 04:23 PM
sir-tech? Don't you mean Talonsoft?

Talonsoft was the publisher. Sir-Tech was the developer.

Assuming you didn't know... Developers create games. Publishers tend to finance and handle the marketing (Advertising, market analysis etc etc) and manufacturing of the physical game media.

wratho
02-09-2012, 04:34 PM
Seems like they tossed out the things that made JA2 truly great (RTS/TBS blend, create-a-merc) and kept the crap that made you want to forget it (lame ♥♥♥ story and goofball characters).

I only hope, desperately, that the re-release of X-Com won't be treated as poorly. I've already had to write off another classic from my gaming youth with the butchery visited upon Syndicate. Seeing X-Com cored out in the same way as these other two would be heartbreaking.

NightLight
02-09-2012, 04:42 PM
There are more of my youth classic game memories that are already butchered besides this one. Not only Syndicate, but also Dungeon Keeper (ugh Dungeons), Theme Hospital (never have a sequel to be honest), SimTower (also no memorable sequel to speak of), and X-Com. Strangely enough, most of them are handled by Kalypso. The only exception perhaps is Tropico 3. Then they butchered it again with Tropico 4 as it has nothing significantly new compared to 3 so I just wrote it off as expansion instead of a true 'sequel'.

DarthZombie
02-09-2012, 06:06 PM
The developers thought it would ruin the game to have Create your own Merc because balance would be broken.

But this reason makes no sense, because in vanilla JA2 you had a tight budget of attribute points for the IMP merc. Yes, in 1.12 it's very easy to create super mercs, but that actually counters the excessive difficulty, so it's not OP.


The developers also thought it would ruin the game to have fog of war "It wasn't fun"

I saw on bitcomposer's forum Micheal's explanation. And it's total hogwash, who the hell did they use for testing? And was it so hard to implement it as an optional feature?


To me it sounds like the developers ruined the game because of what they thought. Maybe they were too used to COD, Halo and Battlefield and went with the dumbed down simple options because they didn't want to follow in the footsteps of good (niche) tactical games like.... Fallout Tactics (and 1+2), Silent Storm + Silent Storm Sentinels, and of course the original JA1+2.

Want to hear something funny? They claim to be "hardcore JA1/2 veterans". Of course, I can understand not wanting to make the game an exact copy of JA2 [although you call your product a bloody remake!], but dumbing down to oblivion surely isn't the way. Just like you said, it's a niche game, it should cater the niche target, while still being friendly to new gamers.


As for me, I played [and still play] JA2 for more hours than I can count. Hell, I played JA2's demo for 2 years straight [ok, I admit I had some small pauses] and was very jarated about not being able to get my hands on the full version [Eastern Europe of the late '90 was not a friendly place for a gamer wanting to buy a game]. When a videogame magazine bundled JA2, ecstatic is an understatement. Years later, when I got my hands on 1.13, I was friggin' euphoric. Given the development history of both the remake and the sequel, my hopes weren't high. Just to make this clear, I was 100% convinced that no remake can top 1.13 in complexity and features, I'm not absurd after all.

When they released the demo, I downloaded it to give it a try while I was taking a brake from 1.13 action. The real-time with pause system [pompously named "plan&go"] isn't bad, not at all. After all, the turn-based system has its flaws and it's not the most realistic method of making your way into combat. I liked the fact that I could make my mercs take certain actions simultaneously in order to create a more efficient way to handle situations. But for the love of God, I failed to find something, a button in the minimalistic UI, a shortcut, anything that could help me see my mercs' and my opponents' field of view. Didn't test all the buttons on my keyboard, but for the time I was patient with the demo, I certainly was to deal without this very important feature. JA2 had it. Hell, even Commandos had it!

The next thing that hit me was the camera. The camera is awful. I never ever saw a bad camera with such horrid controls. Press ALT and move the mouse to rotate the camera? Press CTRL and move the mouse to zoom [at least I could use the mouse wheel for this]? What the hell? Why couldn't I press the middle mouse button to do both at the same time? Was it so hard? Was it so... I don't know, OP? And the camera itself is bad. At minimum zoom [which is very small, forcing you to constantly pan the map in order to see what's going on at a couple of meters from your mercs!], the angle is somewhere between bird-eye view and isometric angle. The result is that you don't know if your mercs are covered, or you don't know if your mercs have a direct line of fire. The camera is very, very bad and it ruins the experience gravely.

I'm not going to be harsh on the merc portraits or voice acting [which is god-awful btw], I can understand that the game is on a tight budget. I can understand that things like climbing on roofs or blowing up walls only in predetermined spots are due to the limited engine [that for some reason bitcomposer can't tinker with - I call bull♥♥♥♥ on that, but for the sake of the argument I'll let it pass]. But why did they have to butcher the healing system? Really, insta[almost]-healing medipacks ftw? No "your merc is injured so his abilities are diminished" or "your merc is bleeding, patch him up quick"? The tactical part of the game is dumbed down, and it only hurts the game experience imho. So does the lack of FOW [on youtube you can already see videos of people massacring whole sectors by abusing the lack of FOW]. And the lack of a global inventory for each sector [forcing you to literally walk your every merc to pick up the objects you desire] is a really stupid decision. It doesn't streamline [bitcomposer's motto on every change they made to the core gameplay mechanics] anything at all, it only manages to force micromanagement as a nuisance.

I'll stop right here, because this is turning into a rant. Truth is that I am really upset for what they did to this game.

Tl;dr: basically a rant, went into great detail about what I think about the flaws of the game. And they're plenty at design level.

wratho
02-09-2012, 07:07 PM
There are more of my youth classic game memories that are already butchered besides this one. Not only Syndicate, but also Dungeon Keeper (ugh Dungeons), Theme Hospital (never have a sequel to be honest), SimTower (also no memorable sequel to speak of), and X-Com. Strangely enough, most of them are handled by Kalypso. The only exception perhaps is Tropico 3. Then they butchered it again with Tropico 4 as it has nothing significantly new compared to 3 so I just wrote it off as expansion instead of a true 'sequel'.

Preach it, brother. Bullfrog was one of the great studios. Losing them was one of the earlier and more painful casualties in EA's bid for total gaming domination. What I wouldn't do to see a Dungeon Keeper 3 released by that same team...

ShiftNMove
02-09-2012, 10:47 PM
I like the game but i am also majorly frustrated that I cannot create my own merc...

trucane
02-09-2012, 11:14 PM
Like everyone else I also miss creating your own IMP I mean who wouldn't? However I still find it to be one of the less problems when you look at the bigger picture. Things like stupid healing mechanics, enemies that can hear you walking further than they can hear you shoot, Weapons that have stats making no sense at all, Lack of sector inventory, No real training of militia also wtf when will ever 2 militia be able to defend against anything?

VoxxTronic
02-09-2012, 11:19 PM
Just play the game - you won't miss the IMP.

It's not like the IMPs in JA2 ever had any kind of connection to the story, other mercs, or anything else in the game.

ShiftNMove
02-10-2012, 12:49 AM
I could really give a ♥♥♥♥ whether the developers think creating a merc is too OP, I wanna play the game how I wanna play it. Enhance the difficulty as a solution. Having no custom merc of my own is kind of upsetting because that was always the best part of JA and of every game to be frank. Games are built on freedom and customization, guess they arent in countries other than the US.

Bawtzki
02-10-2012, 12:59 AM
Just play the game - you won't miss the IMP.

It's not like the IMPs in JA2 ever had any kind of connection to the story, other mercs, or anything else in the game.

Exactly. I never felt any real connection to IMP characters I created, on the other hand I would weep if Ivan, Igor, Ice, Magic, Shadow or any other great merc died a heroic death. IMP was a cheap way to compliment your squad with whatever you needed (mechanic, medic or combat merc) based on the other mercs you hired.

macmert
02-16-2012, 02:59 AM
There are more of my youth classic game memories that are already butchered besides this one. Not only Syndicate, but also Dungeon Keeper (ugh Dungeons), Theme Hospital (never have a sequel to be honest), SimTower (also no memorable sequel to speak of), and X-Com. Strangely enough, most of them are handled by Kalypso. The only exception perhaps is Tropico 3. Then they butchered it again with Tropico 4 as it has nothing significantly new compared to 3 so I just wrote it off as expansion instead of a true 'sequel'.

I beg to differ on Tropico 4, there was a massive change, the auto build feature, that way you wouldn't wait decades for a building to be built :)

There is also good news for X-com, it seems that Firaxis games is on the helm for the new X-com game, which means Sid Meier will once again be working for an X-com game which he did years ago during the Microprose era...

As for the JA series, it is ugly, incomplete, missing but somehow I play it, I don't really know why but I play it...

Unless JA:BiA recieves a big, huge gigantic expansion or overhaul JA fans will still be playing JA 2 gold...

FericJaggar
02-16-2012, 03:38 AM
I pray for a new E5 or 7.62 Reloaded but polished like JA : BiA ; it would be the best. Complexity and gameplay of the first and "buglessness" of the second.