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View Full Version : Engineers on Control Point maps


DarkBandicoot
02-09-2012, 04:41 PM
I feel the urge to speak my mind after this incident, because quite frankly, I am annoyed.

Now, on a map with control points such as Granary (not attack/defend maps in case you're confused), apparantly, Engineers, Spies and Snipers are not for this map!

I say this because I was playing Engineer on a Control Point map because I thought some defence was needed since no one else was Engineer. I then get a teamchat saying something alone the lines of "Engineers + Snipers + Spies can't move forward".

At this point, I'm not entirely sure what he means, so I say something like "I'm a Engineer. And?" He then talks to me through his mic, talking more nonsense about that "it's so boring Engineers, Spies, zzzzz", and yes, he actually used the z's in form of his arrogance.

I answer him back, saying Engineers can be useful on maps like this, etc. He then says "I hope this is your first week playing". I find this comment bizaar, because I am not wearing a Gibus like most newcomers, etc. Do I look like a newtimer I think to myself!?

Attack is important, sure, but isn't defence just as important? Our team was full of fail as we lost round after round, so defence is important to fend them off while your attacking teammates cap the point, etc.

I just don't see his logic, which is exactly what I said. Engineers are a defence slash support class, so to aid my team I feel it is important to build teleports and whatnot to keep up the pace, but he just wouldn't have it!

I'd also like to note that when he typed in something, his text was red, which means he is one of two things; a admin or other form on control to that server, or a donator. I wish for the latter, but actually, the server is a good one.

What do you guys think?

Magmarrax
02-09-2012, 04:43 PM
He was probably just raging/butthurt. Everyone with a brain knows how valuable good Engineers are to a team.

DrScienceMan
02-09-2012, 04:48 PM
I'm strongly tempted to say that he was just trolling you. Never assume for sure that somebody is being genuine.

Assuming that he was for real, well, people can be idiots. Arrogant idiots. When you're an arrogant idiot, you'll always find logic to make you right.

CombustibleLemn
02-09-2012, 04:49 PM
Snipers not for this map. Wearing earbuds and painted hats.

Looks like you need to spend less time trading and more time actually playing the game.

Also butthurt.

nsfh
02-09-2012, 04:53 PM
All classes can be used on CP maps. I'm pretty sure Valve kept this in mind when designing the maps and classes.

On CP maps, frontlines and the point that needs to be held can be quite a distance away from spawn. Teleporters are a must if you want to keep up the pressure.

Lvl3 sentries, as usual, can assist in defending points. Or assisting in capping if you're really creative.

4812622
02-09-2012, 04:57 PM
just because they're admins doesn't mean they aren't morons

lesson learned: everyone is stupid unless noted

Nicco
02-09-2012, 05:02 PM
Before the Engineer update it was debatable whether he was useful or not on 5-CP maps. But with the addition of the Gunslinger and the ability to move buildings the Engineer is definitely no longer considered a slow or 'turtle' class.

Statisfaction
02-09-2012, 05:04 PM
The engineer forum supports engineers in all map types! :P

but seriously, who doesn't want tele's and dispensers?

DarkBandicoot
02-09-2012, 05:24 PM
On CP maps, frontlines and the point that needs to be held can be quite a distance away from spawn. Teleporters are a must if you want to keep up the pressure.

Lvl3 sentries, as usual, can assist in defending points. Or assisting in capping if you're really creative.
Exactly. Spawn locations switch as you continue capping points, and for classes such as Heavies and Soldiers, I like to keep them in the action, especially Heavies, because waiting 5 minutes for them to reach me isn't my idea of teamwork.

Mini Sentries are handy when capping a point and I just love it!

just because they're admins doesn't mean they aren't morons

lesson learned: everyone is stupid unless noted
True, but it just didn't feel right. If they are an admin, what else could I say that wouldn't get me banned from their server (since they hold the power)? I could keep quiet, which is difficult for me sometimes because I'm done enough of ignoring people in my life, and basically, I don't want to be told how to play when what I'm doing isn't harming the team. If I decided to become a 4th Sniper, then I am expected to be called an idiot, but not for reasons I have stated.

Before the Engineer update it was debatable whether he was useful or not on 5-CP maps. But with the addition of the Gunslinger and the ability to move buildings the Engineer is definitely no longer considered a slow or 'turtle' class.
More to the point, I was wearing a Gunslinger because I love moving up with my team with that mini Sentry, as it's fast building function is highly useful in killing enemies. And I always move my buildings forward. Always.

matkec123
02-10-2012, 07:29 AM
"Spies can't move forward".






hes sooooooooo trollin you...spys are the 1 of the best classes for advancing...only not in the way like solider or hoofy... :)

DigitalBoy
02-10-2012, 08:16 AM
Engineer can be good on 5cp, but it's harder to make him work there than on A/D or the likes. The constantly changing spawn locations makes updating your teleporter locations a real hassle, and the entrance is liable to be destroyed by scouts/spies while you're away. And since you have to be running around to move your sentry/dispenser as needed, you may not be near the exit to repair the entrance to keep it from being destroyed. Mini-sentries are great for 5cp, but make protecting your teleporter/dispenser even harder.

Frankly, teleporters are not as essential on 5cp as they are on some other game modes. Not having a teleporter on A/D is asking for failure; they're as crucial as medics. Not having a teleporter on 5cp (which is common due to the aforementioned problems with updating and maintaining them) isn't all that bad, as it's a fairly short walk to the contested control point.

That was a weird tangent I went off on, but engineers being "bad" in 5cp is a common misconception/sentiment I've seen, which I think is based largely in mediocre engineers not putting adequate effort into keeping their buildings where they need to be, or heaven forbid, building sentries on control points that aren't even contested. On the opposite side of things, I've seen some games of 5cp turn to stalemates due to one side having three or four engineers, which is another matter entirely, but another cause for people to dislike 5cp engineers.

DarkBandicoot
02-11-2012, 08:03 AM
Engineer can be good on 5cp, but it's harder to make him work there than on A/D or the likes. The constantly changing spawn locations makes updating your teleporter locations a real hassle, and the entrance is liable to be destroyed by scouts/spies while you're away. And since you have to be running around to move your sentry/dispenser as needed, you may not be near the exit to repair the entrance to keep it from being destroyed. Mini-sentries are great for 5cp, but make protecting your teleporter/dispenser even harder.

Frankly, teleporters are not as essential on 5cp as they are on some other game modes. Not having a teleporter on A/D is asking for failure; they're as crucial as medics. Not having a teleporter on 5cp (which is common due to the aforementioned problems with updating and maintaining them) isn't all that bad, as it's a fairly short walk to the contested control point.

That was a weird tangent I went off on, but engineers being "bad" in 5cp is a common misconception/sentiment I've seen, which I think is based largely in mediocre engineers not putting adequate effort into keeping their buildings where they need to be, or heaven forbid, building sentries on control points that aren't even contested. On the opposite side of things, I've seen some games of 5cp turn to stalemates due to one side having three or four engineers, which is another matter entirely, but another cause for people to dislike 5cp engineers.
Building a new teleporter, or hauling it up at least to the next spawn is a little annoying, but that's just how it is so I won't complain. Hauling it up slows Engineers down so depending on if the teleport has been upgrading, I will just build another, and even if it's just a lv 1, if it gets my Heavies to where I want them to be quicker, I'm happy.

Too many Engineers can be bad, as is having too many of any class, but I was the only one! :\

Rynjin
02-11-2012, 12:31 PM
@DigitalBoy, for most 5CP this is true, but I like to think of Granary as the exception. It takes SO LONG to get anywhere on that map that teleporters are almost NECESSARY. The middle point can also be locked down rather effectively with 2 Engineers, providing a fallback point if both teams are of equal skill.