Expect too much?

[BlackThunder68]

So I have been reading the forums and yes, the loss of items and abilities seem weird and disapointing. But I just checked and I have at this point played BIA 75 hours. 75 hours I enjoyed quite a bit!
$40 for that much entertainment is fair... acctually more than fair.
My hope is that we will see updates, patches and content packs that make sense, but I have spent much more money on much less software. At least there is another JA to play!
If you don't support it it won't be made, simple as that.

[jwoozy]

The game is basically fine, but it's one step forward and two steps back. BIA elegantly solved the pacing problems of it's predecessor by introducing Plan and Go and then promptly screwed it all up by having one of the most terrible inventory management systems I have ever seen. You now literally spend more time mucking around in your backpack and equipping sub-items than you do actually fighting, which is a shame because the tactical combat is really fun and satisfying when done correctly.

What they need to do is add two more sub-item slots to each character, three dedicated ammo pouches outside of the backpack, a weapon select hotkey, and area inventory. Fix the clock so it runs in combat, fix merc contracs, and make attachments consumable permanents (and CHEAPER) and that would solve 90% of the issues that are driving players nuts atm.

[Morgurthion]

I expected the game to be at least as good as JA2, but with newer graphics. I must say I haven't been as disappointed by a game in ages. Sure, I've only just taken over the Drassen Airport, but what the ♥♥♥♥ is this crap? They've removed all the small things that made JA2 such a special game! I mean the voice-overs sucks (If you thought Fox was annoying in JA2, try hiring her now), you can't create your own merc (bye-bye RPG-elements), the inventory system is among the worst I've seen, there are no longer any vehicles, no sci-fi mode, no cutscenes (from what I've read) and far less interactions with characters, also there are less items, less immersion and less of just about everything!

On top of that they've made a real mess of the combat! What I loved in JA2 was the detail with which you could control every Mercs action, how every last AP mattered, and the satisfaction you got when you were able to get out of a sticky situation by trying over and over again to use those AP in the optimum way, beating a superior enemy with a small but precise force. I'm guessing this move is supposed to make the game faster, now why on earth would they want to do that? Aren't there enough fast games on the market? Did they really think they would win over CoD-fans with this bull♥♥♥♥? There is no reason for JA to be fast, it should rather be about tactical depth and precise contemplation.

And while we are on the subject of attractive action, the graphics aren't even that much better than the original. Sure, it's 3D and everything, but the engine they use already feels dated, and if I want to play JA with dated graphics, I'd rather go for JA2, which is a better game in every other aspect. The fact that you can't zoom in close on your mercs is a poor way to hide the fact that you've got textures from 2001.

In my opinion, they should have made the turn based action look better instead, focusing on nice explosions, details and animation (another thing which sucks in BiA). And instead of reinventing the perfectly functioning gameplay from JA2, they could have focused their resources on expanded the content instead of shrinking it. Like having even better voice actors, developing the interactions between the mercs more, adding more side missions, more RPG-elements, more interactive characters in the world, more dialogue, and lots and lots more meta-game (like resource-handling, building fortifications, training Militia and stuff like that).

In conclusion; I expected at least JA2 with better graphics, what I got was a lesser game in every way imaginable. It's not really a bad game on it's own, but really, couldn't we expect more from the long lost sequel to the best game in the genre, and one of my favourite games of all time? The developers didn't fail at making an OK game, but they sure as hell failed to carry on the Jagged Alliance legacy. They changed what was already perfect, and made less of the things that could have been expanded on.

That's my rant. Don't bother trying to get a response if you don't agree with me, because then you have clearly missed what made JA2 great >TO ME<, and that makes your opinion useless >TO ME<. I'm just wondering when developers will stop trying to cater old series like this to the ADHD-console-kids of today, if you want to do that, then for ♥♥♥♥ sake make a new IP. This type of game will NEVER sell to that audience, so instead, why don't you cater to the audience that DO love the original game concept?

Argh, getting back into rant-mode again, better end this.

*EDIT* I should add that I've played the demo, and I've watched loads of gameplay (both youtube and friends playing), so I've seen alot more of the game then just the Drassen takover at the beginning.

[luckystalker]

Soon are coming content updates with new features :)Probably FoW and hopefully sector inventory and the so called "addon" weapons.

[Morgurthion]

Sure hope so, it will surely make it a better game, but it won't bring it up to the level of Jagged Alliance 2. After seeing this game, I fear that all hope for a true sequel, one that fulfills the potential of the concept, is pretty much dead. Man, I really don't want to bury this series :(

[Pheace]

I think they have a good base, and I've enjoyed my time with the game plenty to say that I have no regrets purchasing it.

Sure, it may not live up to what JA2 + 1.13 was, or even without, but they're still working on it, and mods are getting made as well. Hopefully with time this game will rival even it's predecessor.

[xiriod]

The game is basically fine, but it's one step forward and two steps back. BIA elegantly solved the pacing problems of it's predecessor by introducing Plan and Go and then promptly screwed it all up by having one of the most terrible inventory management systems I have ever seen. You now literally spend more time mucking around in your backpack and equipping sub-items than you do actually fighting, which is a shame because the tactical combat is really fun and satisfying when done correctly.

What they need to do is add two more sub-item slots to each character, three dedicated ammo pouches outside of the backpack, a weapon select hotkey, and area inventory. Fix the clock so it runs in combat, fix merc contracs, and make attachments consumable permanents (and CHEAPER) and that would solve 90% of the issues that are driving players nuts atm.


I think I spend 50% or so of the time in my inventory. There's loads of loot and you just pick things up as you go or else you'll be searching the map for those green dots afterwards. Then, fast, your inventory runs out of space so you gotta dump everything someplace in the outskirts and go back in. At the end of the fight you have a stockpile and you want to sell it but you need 2-4 trips back and forth to sell it all. I could go on.

Up the charges of med-kits, repair-kits and the likes and then up their price. Not that you'll buy much of them anyway as you usually find loads in loot. And ammo-stacks could go as high as 1000 at least. Sure it'll be heavy, but it will take less space.

And armour could have increasing durability. 8 for Light Flak, 10 for Flak, 12 for Flak MKII, 14 for Kevlar and so on, and adjust the price slightly. At least then they'd last more than one battle.

There's too much micromanaging of the inventory as it is right now. Other than that, the game is great :)

[DarkJeff]

The only problem with the P&G system as-is is that they lumped stance with aim/snap shot together.

We should have stance options, as well as a "snap shot" or "aimed shot" option.

[sirmarn]

I think the point is, that in today's gaming market, this is a broken game.

[jwoozy]

And armour could have increasing durability. 8 for Light Flak, 10 for Flak, 12 for Flak MKII, 14 for Kevlar and so on, and adjust the price slightly. At least then they'd last more than one battle.

There's too much micromanaging of the inventory as it is right now. Other than that, the game is great :)

I agree completely. I really like the game when you're actually playing it, but when you're micromanaging inventory and outfitting militia it's a complete slog (stamina stat outside of combat doesn't help). High-quality armor also definitely needs a boost to durability because the whole point is to put it on the lead so he won't bleed to death if he goes down first in the middle of a firefight, but as it is armor is too expensive and degrades too quickly to use anything but light flaks and save the yellows and reds for militia hand-me-downs.

If this game just had a better inventory system and hotkeys lots of the complaints would go away. It would become a fairly breezy tactical shooter with RPG elements and grant strategy elements which is a pretty awesome combination for PC gamers who want that more cerebral, nuanced experience. I'm not really holding my breath for continued dev support but there's some really amateur ♥♥♥♥ for a $40 retail game that needs to be cleaned up before I can recommend it to anyone (still playing it everyday myself, though).

[Abura Soba]

I'd say snap shot is fire from hip (low AP, low accuracy) and aimed shot with be the rest... but yeah I get your point.

If you read most of the adamant haters of this game, there's one thing in common: "Baww baww QQ why isnt this game Jagged Alliance 2 Patch 2.0 bawwwww I think the weapon sounds in JA2 were better bawww".

I'm sure everyone else can agree that this game is average at best. However, if they release another DLC without adding sector inventory... Or worse, make sector inventory a DLC...

[DarkJeff]

I'd say snap shot is fire from hip (low AP, low accuracy) and aimed shot with be the rest... but yeah I get your point.It's annoying and counter-intuitive. Just because my guy is crouching doesn't mean he's spending more time aiming, it just means he's found cover! :(

[Dangerboy]

It's annoying and counter-intuitive. Just because my guy is crouching doesn't mean he's spending more time aiming, it just means he's found cover! :(

It's not all that counter-intuitive. As a former Marine, we learned three basic shooting stances: standing, kneeling, and prone. Of those three stances, only one had two "modes" we were taught and practiced: standing. We did slow and rapid fire standing, but then we also did shooting from the hip.

[jwoozy]

Snap shots are kind of irrelevant in BIA because weapons are balanced by their RPM value (determines aim delay, and is not literal but rather a composite of many different real-world characteristics like rate of fire, handling, ergonomics, and accuracy), which means the different shooting styles are essentially "built in" to the optimum range, firing mode, and stance of a given weapon. Each weapon fills a specific niche between those three dimensions, and you kind of stray from that at your own peril.

One way to look at it is that there isn't any reason to crouch behind cover at point-blank range, which (most of the time) means there's not any reason to crouch-snap in a CQB situation. Crouch and prone are mostly positioning tools, and from there you just pick whatever stance is best for the weapon you want to use.

[Genie_52]

thank you guys for the info!

I am huge fan of JA2 (and fallout series and xcom) and I was expecting the game that it seems JA BiA is still not. Hopefully they will patch it properly, change all the mentioned remarks and then I would gladly buy it (no need for any discount for a good game).

[DarkJeff]

It's not all that counter-intuitive. As a former Marine, we learned three basic shooting stances: standing, kneeling, and prone. Of those three stances, only one had two "modes" we were taught and practiced: standing. We did slow and rapid fire standing, but then we also did shooting from the hip.
Well, here's a question then - was it easier or harder to acquire and fire at a target when standing compared to kneeling or prone?

I would think that it's actually easier when kneeling than when standing up.

[imij0607]

i have to say i've been playing this game on and off since it came out. didn't know about the JA2 1.13 mod - got the mod and it's amazing. seriously BIA has a long way to go to match the depth of 1.13. i'm hoping that the devs see this as a very watered down version of JA2 1.13. I'll keep watching the game and see what happens, but from current trends games are getting easier to play with less emersion and not the other way around. i'm going to assume at this point that BIA has been created for a different type of audience.

[DarkJeff]

In all fairness though, v1.13 has been constantly tweaked and added to for almost 7 years. The initial version came out in the summer of '05, and they're still releasing new versions.

[tb87670]

In all fairness though, v1.13 has been constantly tweaked and added to for almost 7 years. The initial version came out in the summer of '05, and they're still releasing new versions.

Don't even compare them. You can get JA2 on GOG.com for $6 and JA2 1.13 is a free download. JA2 1.13 is simply better, and the developers could easily within those 7 years have looked at that and taken some of the ideas. The community would honestly not have minded that, to have a proper sequel that takes the best things that work from the modders who devoted so much time to keep an old game alive. And they have kept JA2 alive quite successfully, so successfully that this spiritual sequel looks like total ♥♥♥♥♥.