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View Full Version : A mature discussion about Macs vs. PC


drgnzach
02-20-2012, 12:05 PM
(Keep it calm, and maybe we can have an actual DISCUSSION about it, rather than it falling into a flame war. Give factual reasons for it, no "PC/MACS SUCK. APPLE/MICROSOFT IS EVIL" posts)

Ive never really seen any reason to pay more for a mac than a PC. The "It gets no virus's" argument doesnt really fly for me, considering its much cheaper to get an anti-virus. As far as graphic design goes, my high school uses macs, and I havent found any programs that arent also available on PC, and in some cases, pay-for programs for mac are free on PC. Slowly, more and more devs are developing mac versions of their programs, but its still overwhelmingly cheaper and easier to use a PC. As far as upgrades though, I can see why someone would pay more for a high-end mac rather than build a high-end PC themselves. As for anyone who is competent with a computer, it is easier to use a PC, because it's not only cheaper, but you can replace parts if they break, rather than having to trash it and buy another.

UniqueName02
02-20-2012, 12:06 PM
Even if this thread doesn't get locked it's still in the wrong section of the forums.

cegrogan
02-20-2012, 12:08 PM
Even if this thread doesn't get locked it's still in the wrong section of the forums.


Agreed. I'd like for this to be locked to avoid the flames of war

UniqueName02
02-20-2012, 12:09 PM
Couldn't you just avoid the flames of war by not reading the thread?

Nova Prospekt
02-20-2012, 12:11 PM
Mature + Mac in same sentence = CANNOT COMPUTE

:p

Spaceguy5
02-20-2012, 12:11 PM
(Keep it calm, and maybe we can have an actual DISCUSSION about it, rather than it falling into a flame war. Give factual reasons for it, no "PC/MACS SUCK. APPLE/MICROSOFT IS EVIL" posts)

Ive never really seen any reason to pay more for a mac than a PC. The "It gets no virus's" argument doesnt really fly for me, considering its much cheaper to get an anti-virus. As far as graphic design goes, my high school uses macs, and I havent found any programs that arent also available on PC, and in some cases, pay-for programs for mac are free on PC. Slowly, more and more devs are developing mac versions of their programs, but its still overwhelmingly cheaper and easier to use a PC. As far as upgrades though, I can see why someone would pay more for a high-end mac rather than build a high-end PC themselves. As for anyone who is competent with a computer, it is easier to use a PC, because it's not only cheaper, but you can replace parts if they break, rather than having to trash it and buy another.

I was going to post in this thread with my opinion, but apparently you already covered everything I was going to mention.

UniqueName02
02-20-2012, 12:18 PM
The "no viruses" argument is really about the fact that without the use of an anti-virus you are far les likely to get a virus on a mac than you are on a pc.

Macs look better, are more expensive, have better battery life, magsafe is meant to be really useful.

You can upgrade pcs, they are cheaper, poorly designed by most manufacturers, worse battery life, windows has many more apps than a mac does.

I haven't used a mac for more than 5 minutes so I don't really have an opinion of the OS itself.

TeKraken
02-20-2012, 12:20 PM
Now that Macs use pretty much the same hardware it comes down to APPLE vs MICROSOFT.
Am I wrong in my thinking?

Mokk
02-20-2012, 12:23 PM
box/brand name pcs of any make fail. I feel the same about Macs as i do alienware/dell/HPs. I'd rather use my own parts on the cheap. The name on the box/case is inconsequential these days.

When you get down to it - they're all PCs (Personal Computers), regardless of who makes them.

k*nel
02-20-2012, 12:24 PM
religious topics are against the rules!

Spaceguy5
02-20-2012, 12:24 PM
You can upgrade pcs, they are cheaper, poorly designed by most manufacturers, worse battery life, windows has many more apps than a mac does.

That depends on the manufacturer, really, so it's not fair to generalize "PCs are usually poorly designed and have worse battery life" because really, I haven't had issues with battery life nor poor design with any of the computers I've owned because I haven't gone with sorry manufacturers (nor have I gone with expensive ones either). In general it's true that any cheap product will likely be poorly designed as they have to be designed cheaper to be marketable.

But that's a feature of PCs: If you choose to, you can use cheaper parts. Or if you choose to, you can get very expensive parts that are far superior to a Mac's hardware. The important thing is that you can choose for yourself.

box/brand name pcs of any make fail. I feel the same about Macs as i do alienware/dell/HPs. I'd rather use my own parts on the cheap. The name on the box/case is inconsequential these days.

When you get down to it - they're all PCs (Personal Computers), regardless of who makes them.

Amen. Really, most brand name products in general are a ripoff. Who cares what brand is stamped all over it, the important thing is that it does what it's supposed to, and without being a total monetary burden to the person who has to use it.

dxmc
02-20-2012, 12:26 PM
Now that Macs use pretty much the same hardware it comes down to APPLE vs MICROSOFT.
Am I wrong in my thinking?

I don't know, I don't personally like the Mac UI. I think the dock looks too cartoony, I like a clean desktop so I like the fact that on my PC I can auto-hide my taskbar. I also use a very convenient launcher called Launchy which isn't available for Mac.

Overall I just really like the huge variety of customization options available on my PC.

Nothing against Mac users, really a question of personal taste.

TeKraken
02-20-2012, 12:29 PM
really a question of personal taste.

Yeah this sums it up for me too.
There is just not enough difference these days, either can be customised how you like if you know how.

FriedGerry
02-20-2012, 12:30 PM
can mac even run pacman lol

spartan0078
02-20-2012, 12:45 PM
Mature + off-topic in same sentence = CANNOT COMPUTE

:p

Fixed that for you.

Snorkel
02-20-2012, 12:57 PM
Has anyone pointed out yet that the term PC is short for Personal Computer, and that there are different varieties of PC such as a Windows PC, a Linux PC and a Mac PC?

I really liked the mac system when I was at school, but that was a long time ago and I was comparing it to Windows 3.1 running on computers that were probably below spec (I remember typing things into the word processing software, and I was not a fast typer at the time, and I'd have to pause every few seconds for the computer to catch up to me). Whereas the macs had a really nice software package (macdraw and macpaint :D <3)...

But that was a long time ago. In the meantime, Windows has improved and I've found the recent versions of Mac OS to be confusing to use. My personal preference is Windows.

But the main reason I use Windows is for the compatibility. I'm a gamer. It would be stupid for me to use any other OS. It actually bugs me quite a lot when I see people complaining about how X game isn't available on mac/linux.

Bear809
02-20-2012, 01:01 PM
PC/Windows is good for games and stuff. Mac is good for life stuff like making pictures and music and managing stuff.

mr. duck
02-20-2012, 01:03 PM
And I also have issues with people being too controlling. Both platforms do that same thing. Unless work calls for one or another, they are equal to the task. Personal preferences does not make one better than another and the arguement itself lessons the maturity level.

Penguin1992
02-20-2012, 01:05 PM
Macs cannot play most computer games. I have my computer for video games. Therfor, Windows is better then Mac.

There is nothing you could say to change that. That is simply how it is.

rotNdude
02-20-2012, 01:07 PM
Since Apple went to Intel CPUs, I view it as the difference in OSs, applications that run on those OSs and the level of support you get from Apple versus Microsoft and the individual hardware vendors.

dxmc
02-20-2012, 01:11 PM
Since Apple went to Intel CPUs, I view it as the difference in OSs, applications that run on those OSs and the level of support you get from Apple versus Microsoft and the individual hardware vendors.

Exactly. I use a lot of freeware apps, like Paragon backup and Recovery which isn't available for Mac. So, given the huge list of freeware apps for PC I'm more inclined towards the PC and Win 7.

Snorkel
02-20-2012, 01:14 PM
I wonder whether the "I'm a PC, I'm a Mac" marketing campaign was because it's illegal to name other specific products and say they're bad (I'm not sure if it is actually illegal, I've heard that it is?), so instead of "I'm Windows, I'm Mac OS" they just used the umbrella term PC and hoped nobody noticed.

Or perhaps the people they paid to design their adverts were ignorant about what PC meant.

I'm curious now.

tibetanpunk
02-20-2012, 01:16 PM
I just put together a new build, with the following specs for about £500. £700 if you include hardware carried over from my previous build.

Core i5 2500K @ 4.3GHz
8GB DDR3 1600MHz
600W OCZ Modular PSU
64GB Crucial SSD

Carried over...

HD5850 1GB
2TB Spinpoint F4
1TB Spinpoint F3

I checked on Apple's site and the closest system I could find cost £2500 and the specs were nowhere near as good.

That is my problem with Apple.

Spaceguy5
02-20-2012, 01:22 PM
PC/Windows is good for games and stuff. Mac is good for life stuff like making pictures and music and managing stuff.

But my PC can run all the same software that most Mac users use, and just as well D= I've made tons of excellent images in Photoshop on my PC. Macs being "better" at that stuff is just a myth.

rotNdude
02-20-2012, 01:25 PM
If you go back through the history of computing, you will find that IBM coined the term for a personal computer and it was based on the Intel X86 architecture. Apple used their own CPUs that were not Intel designed and they called it a MACintosh. Other manufacturers began cloning the IBM design and they were called IBM compatibles. From that day forward, the term PC was always associated with Intel/AMD X86 CPUs and the term MAC was always associated with Apple.

Nisseman
02-20-2012, 01:26 PM
No need to say anything because op already said most of what is needed to be said.
Only thing to add is that I find that sterile white on their stuff really boring and ugly.

dxmc
02-20-2012, 01:30 PM
Interesting, this all brings back a lot of memories from the days of Lotus 1-2-3

Snorkel
02-20-2012, 01:32 PM
If you go back through the history of computing, you will find that IBM coined the term for a personal computer and it was based on the Intel X86 architecture. Apple used their own CPUs that were not Intel designed and they called it a MACintosh. Other manufacturers began cloning the IBM design and they were called IBM compatibles. From that day forward, the term PC was always associated with Intel/AMD X86 CPUs and the term MAC was always associated with Apple.

Oh, interesting, I didn't know that.

Piippo
02-20-2012, 01:33 PM
I just like to be in better control of my system and hard-/software so I choose a PC. I'm not 100% sure to what extent Mac OS's offer these things, but I run Windows to be safe :D

Custom333
02-20-2012, 01:36 PM
The only programmer I know who carries a Mac has Win7 OS on it. Nuff said.

AlecJ32
02-20-2012, 01:39 PM
The difference between a Mac and a PC is pretty clear from my point of view. The hardware is identical as of the last decade or so, so you can factor out the RISC vs CISC part of the equation. The operating systems both have modern kernels and subsystems and there really isn't any underlying advantage to either.

What does that leave you with? Well, it leaves you with 3 major areas of comparison. Price, interface and available software packages.

Let's conquer area #3 first, since that one is easy. For the most part, nearly everything is cross-platform now-a-days, with the exception of most video games and select professional software suites. Most of those pieces of software that aren't cross-platform are Windows only. In this area, Windows essentially has the advantage.

Now let's look at price. A brand new Windows computer can be found in nearly any price range, from $400-ish on up. Macs are far, far less flexible with pricing, and even comparing a Mac and a Windows computer at the same price, the Windows computer will usually have far better hardware.

So that leaves interface alone. This is subjective. Make up your own mind here.


I'd like to note that neither platform is better at things like video editing or audio or other forms of 'creative stuff'. Back in the day, Macs used to have PowerPC processors, which performed better in some 'creative stuff' programs than x86 processors. This is where the 'Macs are better at creative stuff' idea started, and when Macs moved to x86, this never went away. Now-a-days, there is no advantage to either platform.

Larry1212
02-20-2012, 01:40 PM
As far as i'm concerned Windows is a lot easier to multi-task with. If you've the standard resolution of 1920x1080 and need multiple windows open at a time for work or assignments you'll really appreciate what Windows 7 has to offer. It's unbeatable in that regard. Using OS X(Whatever the latest version is) just doesn't cut it. It's cluttered, that's the only word to describe Mac OS X when you've more than two windows open: Cluttered. It's a problem Apple is well aware of and a problem they've tried to fix with SPACE and that newly implemented feature designed to replace SPACE. So far it hasn't worked at all.

Last year I spent twice the time I would have taken doing assignments on Windows 7 simply shifting through windows on OS X. It's just bad.

Gaming: You can't game on a Mac. Games that come out and are released on macs and windows generally run like ♥♥♥♥ and have higher specifications for macs. It's just not even funny how prevailent this is.

Every day use: Windows comes out on top. I can do everything with my machine, it may be slower(So i'm told) to make videos and stuff on a Windows machine but that means nothing to me and 99% of computer users out there and even at that Windows is more than capable of doing it, probably not as fast or as easy but still capable.

I like the ease of use and complexity of Windows 7. It's just better. The option's there. I can mess with my computer up as much as I want and do all sorts with it without having to download 3rd party software to do so.

Windows 7 just looks better. OS X looks depressing and fugly. You've got your Dock which looks miserable and always have the one bar along the top that is used as your universale options menu which is a problem in itself. If you have another window highlighted and you don't know it you're going into options for that window which wastes your time and could ♥♥♥♥ you over if you delete something or close the window.

Stability: Yeah, people will say Mac OS X is more stable but it would have to be given how closed off it is. A lot of the issues with Windows is user error. This could range from installing something you shouldn't have, installing malware or viruses, or simply messing with your files when you shouldn't have.

Viruses: Not an issue if you're educated. I've not had a virus on this machine ever. I've had it for around two or three years and never had a virus, keylogger or malware on my machine.

I can build my own computer. I don't need to say anything about that, it's just so much better, so much cheaper and I feel like i've achieved something more having built my own computer and upgraded it.

Zefar
02-20-2012, 01:42 PM
PC/Windows is good for games and stuff. Mac is good for life stuff like making pictures and music and managing stuff.

PC can be equally good for making pictures and music without a problem.

There are tons of music programs on the PC and some of them emulate a synth(I think that's it's name), I remember the program being called like Reason or something.

To manage stuff you can easily find programs to do that for you.

For raw power I'm gonna go on a limb and say that PC wins on this.

Is there something a MAC can do that PC can't?

I think there is one thing MAC can do better than PC. Transfer data from a drive to your MAC at like 1 GB speed or so. It was ludicrous high at least. My big brother liked that feature a lot.
Also MAC doesn't get slow when you install a lot of stuff.

But an SSD drive probably fixes that on PC.

Edit: About the whole virus thing. I think it's more of like that virus makers hasn't made virus for MAC. Otherwise it'd be like some games not having cheats. But since every game out there has cheats, MACs would be bound to have a virus if someone made one for it.

Draek
02-20-2012, 01:42 PM
Here's all you need to know about the PC vs Mac argument: Macs are also PCs.

Now, as to OS discussion personally I find working with a proper UNIX like Linux and FreeBSD(*) ideal, but since Windows has much better compatibility with games I do use it on a couple of my computers for messing around. And then there's Visual Studio as well, though Eclipse does quite well on its own on other platforms.

(*) Yes, I know about the UNIX trademark and how OSX has the rights to it and neither Linux nor the BSDs do, but anyone who knows anything about computers knows UNIX is not a trademark, it's a design philosophy and one OSX completely ignores since it's modelled after the old Macs.

frogsmoothy
02-20-2012, 01:49 PM
Mature + Mac in same sentence = CANNOT COMPUTE

:p

so much hypocrisy. Not all mac users are the starbucks drinking, pot smoking skinny jeans wearing hippies people imagine.

ddrkreature
02-20-2012, 02:11 PM
Macs excel in rendering and media creation and manipulation., especially video They simply seem more efficient in the use of its ram and processor and are more stable when handling that kind of information. I found they are also more reliable at times and seem to last longer. I have had my macbook pro for about 4 years now and it's still running good, but is beginning to show signs of giving out. That's the curse of computers though

If your using it for just normal use though, I would go with a PC as they are much cheaper and more customizable, depending on if you get a laptop or desktop. It also depends on manufacturer. But anyway, PCs do have the gaming advantage and the manufacturer choice and price advantage. And the fact that it's largely more supported.

So, the short version of this is:
Mac: Media use. higher price
PC: Business and games. lower price

excalibur1814
02-20-2012, 02:14 PM
have better battery life,.

Not exactly true anymore

DoubleD
02-20-2012, 02:16 PM
Why do people buy BMW's when a Ford can get you to work as well? ;)


Anyway I have 3- PC's for Desktops but my new laptop, (Getting rid of my Dell 630) I am getting this summer will be a MAC.

So Desktops I use PC. Laptops I will be on a MAC.

excalibur1814
02-20-2012, 02:17 PM
Macs excel in rendering and media creation and manipulation., especially video They simply seem more efficient in the use of its ram and processor and are more stable when handling that kind of information. I found they are also more reliable at times and seem to last longer. I have had my macbook pro for about 4 years now and it's still running good, but is beginning to show signs of giving out. That's the curse of computers though

A: Tell the above to the Design studios around Chester who use pcs.
B: When people compare a mac laptop to a pc laptop they're NOT taking into account the X220 and Elitebook models of the world. You simply cannot compare a £1000 laptop to a £450 special that overheats within twenty minutes because the user has installed fifty packages and the thing already has over 100 running services.

Stevontoast
02-20-2012, 02:22 PM
3 Windows based computers.
1 Mac based computer.

Windows is personally better for me.
In style and functionality.

lazy6pyro
02-20-2012, 02:23 PM
Macs excel in rendering and media creation and manipulation., especially video They simply seem more efficient in the use of its ram and processor and are more stable when handling that kind of information. I found they are also more reliable at times and seem to last longer. I have had my macbook pro for about 4 years now and it's still running good, but is beginning to show signs of giving out. That's the curse of computers though

If your using it for just normal use though, I would go with a PC as they are much cheaper and more customizable, depending on if you get a laptop or desktop. It also depends on manufacturer. But anyway, PCs do have the gaming advantage and the manufacturer choice and price advantage. And the fact that it's largely more supported.

So, the short version of this is:
Mac: Media use. higher price
PC: Business and games. lower price

Media and creation works just as fine on PC with any other OS (Windows and various forums of Linux...Linux is especially used in render farms and is in-fact preferred among VFX studios). I think a further explanation is that Mac excels at media creation at the 'pro-sumer' level. Especially with the FCPX debacle last year and Adobe finally getting the Premiere + AE combo in decent shape, media companies are either switching to Adobe or upgrading to Avid video solutions.

excalibur1814
02-20-2012, 02:24 PM
My own personal opinion is one of a tech person that's been fixing the damn things for years and I often want to cry at times when the mac vs pc thing rears its head again. Overall you have EXACTLY the same hardware with different shiny cases wrapped around each of them, with both mac and pc machines overheating or breaking. Just read the different forums and you'll soon find that both have issues (Try not to go to the apple forums as they do like to erase content!)

Both have an operating system which pretty much does the same damn thing with 'only' the external available content being what makes the difference. If you want to make music/video then FORGET the pc/mac thing and pick your application and THEN the platform.

To say either one is better really might just be silly.

DudeNtheRoom
02-20-2012, 02:26 PM
Apple products are too combersome to use. Except most of the iPhone. Some of it is still not user friendly.

I hate them.

Other than not as many viruses being directed at the apple OS, I don't see any reason to switch....at all.

BlueWaffel
02-20-2012, 02:27 PM
Linux. Fedora linux to be more precise.
Also, a mac IS a pc.

noodlesoup
02-20-2012, 03:14 PM
Apple products are too combersome to use. Except most of the iPhone. Some of it is still not user friendly.

I hate them.

Other than not as many viruses being directed at the apple OS, I don't see any reason to switch....at all.

Man, not being funny or anything, but if you find the iphone too complicated to use...

Its DESIGNED to be something u can pick up and learn in less than 5 minutes.

imeem
02-20-2012, 03:22 PM
isn't mac OSs more optimized compared to Windows OSs because it's more "close?" Or does that only apply to iOS vs. android/windows?

i'm actually kinda interested in turning my old pc into a hackintosh.

IMO OEM apple computers looks better thna OEM windows computers.

Snorkel
02-20-2012, 03:46 PM
There is one use which macs are far more suited to than your average Windows PC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacQuarium :D ;)

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&q=macquarium&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=9990l11763l0l12122l10l9l0l1l1l3l481l3021l2-2.2.4l9l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1301&bih=636&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=-9pCT_DNCeqUiQfj-bXnBA

stillmatic07
02-20-2012, 03:50 PM
console.


:D

DudeNtheRoom
02-20-2012, 03:53 PM
Man, not being funny or anything, but if you find the iphone too complicated to use...

Its DESIGNED to be something u can pick up and learn in less than 5 minutes.

Thats why I said "Except most of the iphone". It still has iTunes and some other crap thats a pain in the ♥♥♥.

stillmatic07
02-20-2012, 04:11 PM
Thats why I said "Except most of the iphone". It still has iTunes and some other crap thats a pain in the ♥♥♥.

I still don't understand how ITUNES has gone this far without an "add to play queue" button. That's basically one of the biggest reasons I switched to foobar2000.

I don't want to have to make a playlist everytime I want to switch up the music or do a little DJing.

Larry1212
02-20-2012, 04:13 PM
I still don't understand how ITUNES has gone this far without an "add to play queue" button. That's basically one of the biggest reasons I switched to foobar2000.

I don't want to have to make a playlist everytime I want to switch up the music or do a little DJing.

I just can't believe people use iTunes. :rolleyes:

jenovaweapon
02-20-2012, 04:14 PM
I just can't believe people use iTunes. :rolleyes:

I do. It's simple to use and I like that, deal with it.

Strangely enough though, I don't care for Macs and have been using PCs since the DOS days.

Larry1212
02-20-2012, 04:21 PM
I do. It's simple to use and I like that, deal with it.

Strangely enough though, I don't care for Macs and have been using PCs since the DOS days.

I don't have to deal with it, I don't care if you do or don't. I still, however, can't believe people would use it besides if they're forced into it because of their iPods or iPhones.

noodlesoup
02-20-2012, 04:29 PM
Thats why I said "Except most of the iphone". It still has iTunes and some other crap thats a pain in the ♥♥♥.

Ahhh, then I misunderstood what you'd said, my bad.

ΩBSOLETE
02-20-2012, 04:31 PM
Too many people see it as a difference in the Machine itself, While It is Actually an OS War.

I think that people who buy Mac's don't know a thing about computers because they don't know you could buy a Windows-Based machine or even one you built yourself and have A better system at a fraction of the cost.

While I dislike Apple for their PC's, they do excellent in the mobile device market.


Also, OP its OSX vs Windows, not Mac's vs PC's. PC stands for Personal Computer, which is the same thing no matter what operating system your running.

Epsilon
02-20-2012, 04:54 PM
Now, as to OS discussion personally I find working with a proper UNIX like Linux and FreeBSD(*) ideal, but since Windows has much better compatibility with games I do use it on a couple of my computers for messing around. And then there's Visual Studio as well, though Eclipse does quite well on its own on other platforms. OS X is a proper UNIX system; that's part of the reason I have one for programming work. You get all the power of being in that environment, but none of the hassle of running a Linux distro.

Also, if you're writing code on a Mac and you need an IDE, there's Xcode, which is really rather nice.

marie pavie
02-20-2012, 05:08 PM
I'd like to note that neither platform is better at things like video editing or audio or other forms of 'creative stuff'. Back in the day, Macs used to have PowerPC processors, which performed better in some 'creative stuff' programs than x86 processors. This is where the 'Macs are better at creative stuff' idea started, and when Macs moved to x86, this never went away. Now-a-days, there is no advantage to either platform.
It was long before that, back in the day Apple had the graphics software & MS had DB3 & biz type stuff.


--------------
Here's a 1980 presentation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lvMgMrNDlg&feature=player_embedded#!) by Steve Jobs (queue mouth foaming) that's rather interesting, from the Computer History Museum (http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/stevejobs/).

Lethal_Sting
02-20-2012, 05:19 PM
I wonder whether the "I'm a PC, I'm a Mac" marketing campaign was because it's illegal to name other specific products and say they're bad (I'm not sure if it is actually illegal, I've heard that it is?), so instead of "I'm Windows, I'm Mac OS" they just used the umbrella term PC and hoped nobody noticed.

I'm curious now.

You mean kinda like how Newegg made a video of a store with blue uniforms and made them look stupid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYk0dQrz3uc)? Best Buy thought it was too similar to them so they put out a cease-and-desist letter (http://consumerist.com/2011/06/best-buy-issues-cease-desist-over-neweggcoms-use-of-the-word-geek.html).


And the thing about viruses....

If hypothetically, you were a virus writer, would you design it for OS w, or OS x, when x=0.001w ?

Snorkel
02-20-2012, 05:22 PM
And the thing about viruses....

If hypothetically, you were a virus writer, would you design it for OS w, or OS x, when x=0.001w ?

Me, I'd make a virus that targetted Linux systems and changed the background image to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bliss.png :D

lazy6pyro
02-20-2012, 05:23 PM
Me, I'd make a virus that targetted Linux systems and changed the background image to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bliss.png :D

Until you hit a Linux distro that doesn't have a desktop :D

Snorkel
02-20-2012, 05:24 PM
Until you hit a Linux distro that doesn't have a desktop :D

Hmmm. Perhaps I could modify the command prompt to act like DOS :D

C:\>ls
Bad command or file name

pbassjunk
02-20-2012, 05:46 PM
In the recent past, Mac/OSX had a lot of polish in certain areas that really catered to various professions and enthusiasts - media content producers, all things unix, platform agnostic development, etc.

Now however, OSX is increasingly abandoning it's professional focus and targeting a mobile mentality.

I've never been an Apple fanboy, but at one point I would very much be a pro-Mac type [depending on what the task was or the content in question] in these types of discussions, but now.. meh.. Apple is increasingly becoming a platform based on status and consumption. Which is great for as long as it lasts, but it makes me wonder what they'll do when they eventually lose the coolness luster.

The mobile consumer is much more fickle than the pro market. Apple really isn't a requirement [again, depending on the context] like it used to be.

GameFlysBy
02-20-2012, 05:47 PM
The "It gets no virus's" argument doesnt really fly for me, considering its much cheaper to get an anti-virus.

Having been a PC user for years before I was a MAC user I can say that having an anti-virus is not nearly as effective as having a virtually virus free OS. Even with a good anti-virus on my PC, I still had to deal with viruses and I consider myself pretty tech savy.

The reason I buy Apple products is because of the build quality. No other company in the world is making Phones/computers/laptops that look as good! That coupled with a virus free OS is a winning combination in my eyes. I spend a lot of time on my computer and am more than happy to pay the premium for a more expensive product.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 05:50 PM
The reason I buy Apple products is because of the build quality. No other company in the world is making Phones/computers/laptops that look as good!

They're starting to now. (http://inspiredbyapple.tumblr.com/)

TheSagetEffect
02-20-2012, 06:44 PM
Simply put, Macs aren't nearly as upgradable as PCs and they tend to charge at least $1,000 more for a Mac of the same quality as a PC. Their laptops are a bit more fair, and I can understand why you would want a more user-friendly notebook, but other than that PCs win on every front.

ΩBSOLETE
02-20-2012, 06:53 PM
Having been a PC user for years before I was a MAC user I can say that having an anti-virus is not nearly as effective as having a virtually virus free OS. Even with a good anti-virus on my PC, I still had to deal with viruses and I consider myself pretty tech savy.

The reason I buy Apple products is because of the build quality. No other company in the world is making Phones/computers/laptops that look as good! That coupled with a virus free OS is a winning combination in my eyes. I spend a lot of time on my computer and am more than happy to pay the premium for a more expensive product.

The only reason its "Virus-Free" is because it holds 5% market share :rolleyes:

Thats why Windows has so many viruses, it holds over 90% market share.

What would you do if you were a hacker?

BlueWaffel
02-20-2012, 07:13 PM
having a virtually virus free OS.

Than why aren't you running linux? Linux is truly a "virus free OS." Unlike MAC, where the user base is starting to get hit my trojans and scarware.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 07:14 PM
Than why aren't you running linux? Linux is truly a "virus free OS." Unlike MAC, where the user base is starting to get hit my trojans and scarware.

Because outside of server hosting and elite airconditioned peoples, it's more or less a piece of garbage?

ΩBSOLETE
02-20-2012, 07:18 PM
Because outside of server hosting and elite airconditioned peoples, it's more or less a piece of garbage?

Dont BASH Linux!

(+rep for whoever gets the reference)

BlueWaffel
02-20-2012, 07:19 PM
Dont BASH Linux!

(+rep for whoever gets the reference)

Bash command line. Common in most Unix and Unix based systems now days.

BlueWaffel
02-20-2012, 07:21 PM
Because outside of server hosting and elite airconditioned peoples, it's more or less a piece of garbage?

Sure, garbage if you you're used to one button mice and being locked out of your system by "2011 windows xp anitvirus."

wazups 2x
02-20-2012, 07:21 PM
PC is where the games are.
PC is much cheaper.
PC allows me to build and upgrade my PC.
PC allows me to disable mouse acceleration.

The PC fits my preferences much better than a Mac.

Destructor-2011
02-20-2012, 07:26 PM
Usually I say:

Mac for work, stuff, etc
PC for gaming or whatever you want to do with your favorites programs.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 07:27 PM
Sure, garbage if you you're used to one button mice and being locked out of your system by "2011 windows xp anitvirus."

It's garbage if I actually want to get any work done. There are extremely few consumer or developer-for-other-platforms-than-just-Linux Linux tools of any measurable quality.

DudeNtheRoom
02-20-2012, 07:37 PM
I do. It's simple to use and I like that, deal with it.

Strangely enough though, I don't care for Macs and have been using PCs since the DOS days.

Why the attitude?

I don't get it.

Zodiark1593
02-20-2012, 07:47 PM
I'd probably recommend a Mac to people who wants an idiot-proof system. I'm not a fan of Macs (or their mobile devices) myself. They're pretty dull to look at, in addition to lacking a lot of raw power for the money.

If I ever get into production of any kind (The Mac's "strong point"), I'd have built a water cooled dual Xeon system (overclocked of course ;) ) with 2 of the fastest Nvidia Quadro cards in SLI, and more RAM than anyone will know what to do with in the next decade. I don't see Apple offering any Nvidia cards at all, let alone multi-GPU configs. Heck, where's the water cooling on their Mac Pros. And a Radeon 5870 at a $2000+ price point. What is Apple smoking over there?

masta121
02-20-2012, 09:12 PM
I think Macs are better for computer illiterates, there's less under the hood things that they can mess up. Now don't think I'm saying all Mac users are computer illiterate (Although I suspect a big portion are considering the overpricing aspect).

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 09:13 PM
If anything, there's much more under the hood.

masta121
02-20-2012, 09:15 PM
If anything, there's much more under the hood.

There's an equal amount under the hood....less, actually, because DirectX support really isn't there.

joeylawn
02-20-2012, 09:16 PM
If you go back through the history of computing, you will find that IBM coined the term for a personal computer and it was based on the Intel X86 architecture. Apple used their own CPUs that were not Intel designed and they called it a MACintosh. Other manufacturers began cloning the IBM design and they were called IBM compatibles. From that day forward, the term PC was always associated with Intel/AMD X86 CPUs and the term MAC was always associated with Apple.

"PC" should really be "IM" (Intel-Mi¢ro$oft), but like you said, it all started with the IBM PC.

masta121
02-20-2012, 09:30 PM
Having been a PC user for years before I was a MAC user I can say that having an anti-virus is not nearly as effective as having a virtually virus free OS. Even with a good anti-virus on my PC, I still had to deal with viruses and I consider myself pretty tech savy.

The reason I buy Apple products is because of the build quality. No other company in the world is making Phones/computers/laptops that look as good! That coupled with a virus free OS is a winning combination in my eyes. I spend a lot of time on my computer and am more than happy to pay the premium for a more expensive product.

Assuming you actually are tech savvy, why would you go asking for viruses by downloading loads of "free" porn?

Because seriously, outside of poor luck happening once or twice, that's the only place you're gonna get viruses. That or pirate sites.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 09:35 PM
There's an equal amount under the hood....less, actually, because DirectX support really isn't there.

And Windows doesn't have Quartz support. Your point?

dantegao
02-20-2012, 09:39 PM
In my opinion, I prefer windows over OS X. Some things with Mac just don't work for me, like no .rar support. And even though macs are asthetically nice, especially their font, it's nothing windows can't do with the help of a program like Rainmeter.

Many of my friends who are Mac users cite its lack of viruses. However, more and more viruses are being developed for Mac. I've never had a virus on my windows machine. All you have to do is install some anti-virus and don't be an idiot when downloading stuff off the Internet.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 09:42 PM
Some things with Mac just don't work for me, like no .rar support.

I was not aware Windows had out-of-the-box support for RARs either.

AlecJ32
02-20-2012, 09:43 PM
Until you hit a Linux distro that doesn't have a desktop :D

Such a virus need not be concerned with systems that aren't running a 'desktop environment', since the users/operators of those systems are not the ones with the "LOLOLOLOLULZ UR ON WINDOZE ENJOY UR VIRUZ IM INVINCIBLE ON MY LINUX>!! I KNO SO MUCH ABOUT COMPUTRS BECUZ I HAS UBUNTU!" type attitudes.

They're starting to now. (http://inspiredbyapple.tumblr.com/)

Looks like they forgot to add Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey (http://www.sighenz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tabletSpaceOdyssey.jpg) to that list, since according to Apple anything that's a thin tablet with narrow boarders is an iPad rip-off. There you have a blatant iPad rip-off from 1968, which clearly illustrates that in Apple's frame of reference, time flows backwards.

Because outside of server hosting and elite airconditioned peoples, it's more or less a piece of garbage?

If you're well learned in the area of UNIX/Linux and their workings, there are plenty of environments (or distributions, but I tend to stay away from those) that are conducive to a positive computing experience. You just have to stay away from the things like Ubuntu and stay much closer to things like NetBSD or Slackware...

....That is if you even use distributions. Lately I've had better luck just booting into a minimal environment and building a GNU operating system from source. Distributions tend to come with worthless stuff that doesn't work properly.

Firestorm998
02-20-2012, 09:43 PM
Why the attitude?

I don't get it.
Just tell yourself that it takes all kinds to make a world.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 09:45 PM
Looks like they forgot to add Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey (http://www.sighenz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tabletSpaceOdyssey.jpg) to that list, since according to Apple anything that's a thin tablet with narrow boarders is an iPad rip-off. There you have a blatant iPad rip-off from 1968, which clearly illustrates that in Apple's frame of reference, time flows backwards.
The iPad doesn't have a row of ten buttons down the bottom.

If you're well learned in the area of UNIX/Linux and their workings, there are plenty of environments (or distributions, but I tend to stay away from those) that are conducive to a positive computing experience. You just have to stay away from the things like Ubuntu and stay much closer to things like NetBSD or Slackware...

....That is if you even use distributions. Lately I've had better luck just booting into a minimal environment and building a GNU operating system from source. Distributions tend to come with worthless stuff that doesn't work properly.

I like stuff that doesn't suck up all my time trying to get it to work. Zero Linux distributions I've tried fit that criteria (Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, Arch... only BackTrack does, but that's a specialised distro). FreeBSD too. As for DIY, forget it.

dantegao
02-20-2012, 09:46 PM
I was not aware Windows had out-of-the-box support for RARs either.

Well, it doesn't, but I don't believe programs like WinRAR for Mac work at all. Don't quote me on that though. My Mac friends complain about no .rar support.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 09:47 PM
Well, it doesn't, but I don't believe programs like WinRAR for Mac work at all. Don't quote me on that though. My Mac friends complain about no .rar support.

Point them to http://itunes.apple.com/app/the-unarchiver/id425424353?mt=12 then.

AlecJ32
02-20-2012, 09:56 PM
The iPad doesn't have a row of ten buttons down the bottom.

That's not the defining characteristic Apple's legal team uses when taking legal action against other tablets, though. Apple claims that the defining characteristic of the iPad is it being a 'thin tablet with narrow borders', thus they pursued various 'thin tablets with narrow borders' as copying their design.

Samsung, if I recall correctly, won such a legal battle with Apple by pointing out the major flaw in Apple's logic. That flaw being the fact that they weren't the first ones to come up with the notion of 'a thin tablet with narrow borders'.

I like stuff that doesn't suck up all my time trying to get it to work. Zero Linux distributions I've tried fit that criteria (Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, Arch... only BackTrack does, but that's a specialised distro). FreeBSD too. As for DIY, forget it.

You may consider re-evaluating your approach if your having so much trouble. You could be doing something wrong.

If DIY occupies too much of your time, I sympathize with you over your busy schedule. It must be hard never having a spare evening of free time.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 10:02 PM
That's not the defining characteristic Apple's legal team uses when taking legal action against other tablets, though. Apple claims that the defining characteristic of the iPad is it being a 'thin tablet with narrow borders', thus they pursued various 'thin tablets with narrow borders' as copying their design.

Samsung, if I recall correctly, won such a legal battle with Apple by pointing out the major flaw in Apple's logic. That flaw being the fact that they weren't the first ones to come up with the notion of 'a thin tablet with narrow borders'.

One of Apple's recommendation to Samsung to make the Tab significantly distinguishable from the iPad was to add a crapton of buttons. One of the defining characteristics of the iPad compared to it's predecessors was a lack of buttons. Hence, buttons are a fair example of why the iPad isn't just a copy of that movie's tablets.

You may consider re-evaluating your approach if your having so much trouble. You could be doing something wrong.

If DIY occupies too much of your time, I sympathize with you over your busy schedule. It must be hard never having a spare evening of free time.

Evening? Please! I WISH I could get some of these open-source projects working in an evening. I've had to spend weeks on some libraries before just giving up, and Linux overall is no exception.

Microshocky
02-20-2012, 10:07 PM
One of Apple's recommendation to Samsung to make the Tab significantly distinguishable from the iPad was to add a crapton of buttons. One of the defining characteristics of the iPad compared to it's predecessors was a lack of buttons. Hence, buttons are a fair example of why the iPad isn't just a copy of that movie's tablets.



Evening? Please! I WISH I could get some of these open-source projects working in an evening. I've had to spend weeks on some libraries before just giving up, and Linux overall is no exception.

A lack of buttons is a characteristic that DEFINES what makes their tablet different? Then I guess a loaf of bread in a tablet form is copying an iPad.

A slice of bread is an iPod touch

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 10:09 PM
A lack of buttons is a characteristic that DEFINES what makes their tablet different? Then I guess a loaf of bread in a tablet form is copying an iPad.

A slice of bread is an iPod touch

wat (http://emotibot.net/pix/205.jpg)

travislopes
02-20-2012, 10:11 PM
A lack of buttons is a characteristic that DEFINES what makes their tablet different? Then I guess a loaf of bread in a tablet form is copying an iPad.

A slice of bread is an iPod touch

And Android is that moldy piece of bread that always gets discarded and left behind

Microshocky
02-20-2012, 10:11 PM
wat (http://emotibot.net/pix/205.jpg)

A loaf of a bread with a single button. It runs BreadOS, which is open oven.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 10:14 PM
A loaf of a bread with a single button. It runs BreadOS, which is open oven.

> /dev/null 2&>1









Now can somebody please post some actual sense?

AlecJ32
02-20-2012, 10:14 PM
A lack of buttons is a characteristic that DEFINES what makes their tablet different? Then I guess a loaf of bread in a tablet form is copying an iPad.

Apple is a very anti-competitive company. They try and define their products in the absolute most vague way possible so that when any kind of competition comes around, they can try and sue them for 'copying' them.

This includes fruit markets whose products (because of a stylized generic fruit logo) might be confused for Apple products.

Evening? Please! I WISH I could get some of these open-source projects working in an evening. I've had to spend weeks on some libraries before just giving up, and Linux overall is no exception.

That's unfortunate. Clearly you've had far more roadblocks than I have. I usually only have trouble when using very 'mainstream-friendly' projects that attempt to simplify things through very non-robust mechanisms. It seems to me like open source projects aren't as hesitant to taking the 'duct tape' approach to many problems.

Though I will admit that I recently tried to use Linux on my newly purchased laptop, however, my laptop uses Nvidia Optimus, which doesn't officially support Linux. Aside from display configuration, there were no problems to be had, but I couldn't get the display to function properly.

Microshocky
02-20-2012, 10:16 PM
> /dev/null 2&>1









Now can somebody please post some actual sense?

Actually, my post made a lot of sense.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 10:18 PM
Actually, my post made a lot of sense.

In what numeric system is zero a lot?

AlecJ32
02-20-2012, 10:20 PM
In what numeric system is zero less than a lot?

I'd like to say....roughly all of them. But I can't tell if this is a loaded question or not.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 10:29 PM
It wasn't loaded, I was just trying to humourously highlight the fact that contrary to his latter post, his former post actually made zero sense. Unfortunately, I managed to screw up the question.

Getsuga Tensho
02-20-2012, 10:36 PM
If this was a mature discussion then it'd be about Macs and PCs, not Macs vs PCs. Macs are good, Windows is good, Linux is good. What you use comes down to personal preference, what requirements you have and what fits those requirements the best for you. There is no one which is better overall, there are just options you can pick based on preference and in some cases, budget. Stating that one is better overall and trying to justify that rather than just saying "this PC is for me, I like it and these others ones just don't suit me" makes no sense.

masta121
02-20-2012, 10:38 PM
And Windows doesn't have Quartz support. Your point?

My point was that you're mistaken if you think OSX has "more going on under the hood" than Windows. Not that it even matters, because more going on in the background isn't some indication of superiority or even a good thing.

sudomakesanwich
02-20-2012, 10:39 PM
As of right now, it's more of a personal preference. However I don't think it will be too long before Apple and Microsoft lock down their operating systems.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 10:42 PM
My point was that you're mistaken if you think OSX has "more going on under the hood" than Windows. Not that it even matters, because more going on in the background isn't some indication of superiority or even a good thing.

Mac OS X has more going on under the hood that a user can screw up. You can't recompile the kernel in Windows, for instance, can you?

masta121
02-20-2012, 10:48 PM
Mac OS X has more going on under the hood that a user can screw up. You can't recompile the kernel in Windows, for instance, can you?

I was talking about average, computer illiterate users. You can't bloat a Mac to death nearly as easily with free toolbar spam and porn site malware. Windows has certainly gotten better with UAC and the action center and the like, but unfortunately the first thing most illiterates do is turn it off because it's "annoying", and damn it, they want their free toolbars.

Mangr0v3
02-20-2012, 10:49 PM
mmm, cursor toolbars...

Nomad Trooper
02-20-2012, 11:25 PM
Mac? What the heck is a "Mac"?

Now if it's Apple versus Microsoft? I hear Apple makes a good MP3 player...

Lamperi
02-21-2012, 12:10 AM
OS X is a proper UNIX system; that's part of the reason I have one for programming work. You get all the power of being in that environment, but none of the hassle of running a Linux distro.

Also, if you're writing code on a Mac and you need an IDE, there's Xcode, which is really rather nice.

Cannot agree more. This is why I do my development on my Mac. Hundreds on programming languages and libraries are trivial to install on a Mac, which behaves like POSIX system underneath its GUI.

I also do most of my work on Terminal and zsh, which is sad, since I casually check through Mac App Store and they have some good innovations for lots of regular stuff in desktop usage:

Upload a file by dragging it to the menu item in the menu bar
Have a drop area, where you can store you drag drops while you look for correct dropping place


As for Apple's innovations for user interface, one of the best window choosers I have used is Mission Control / Expose (the view where the screen shows all screen minimized next to each other, and you can choose the active window by clicking it). The visual view is awesome and the program is easy to find. Alt-tabbing (known as command-tabbing on Mac) is just too burdersome.

I know some Windows users who have only tried OSX feel a bit lost: Applications can stay open without windows, and you have both window hiding and minimizing, which both act differently than Windows' minimize function. The unified menu bar also feels strange at first but it is easy to get used, and actually increases the productivity, since it is always found from the same place.

So, in conclusions, Mac has better user interface for me. The shell is also valuable for any command line oriented nerd. Python, Perl and Ruby are all pre-installed on OSX.

Also who said Macs are better for image handing? By default Mac has no programs installed, but Windows has at least MSPaint!

I still have a Windows PC for gaming. My Macbook Pro just doesn't run exclusive Windows games or most demanding cross platforms. Then again, I can play stuff like Killing Floor / Team Fortress / Binding of Isaac on my Mac easily.

AlecJ32
02-21-2012, 12:27 PM
Mac OS X has more going on under the hood that a user can screw up. You can't recompile the kernel in Windows, for instance, can you?

I was talking about average, computer illiterate users. You can't bloat a Mac to death nearly as easily with free toolbar spam and porn site malware. Windows has certainly gotten better with UAC and the action center and the like, but unfortunately the first thing most illiterates do is turn it off because it's "annoying", and damn it, they want their free toolbars.

Neither of these things point to 'more going on under the hood' for either platform. Certainly, though, both platforms are ridiculously complicated 'under the hood'. What goes on 'under the hood' is probably well beyond the scope of what the vast majority of forum members here are capable of understanding.

DeadPoolX
02-22-2012, 12:26 PM
I've used both PCs and Macs extensively and to be honest, it really comes down to what you prefer. Neither OS (Windows or OSX) is better, they just excel at different things and most of anyone's choice comes down to familiarity. If you've used OSX a lot and you're comfortable with it, you'll have problems with Windows and vice-versa.

Nowadays there's virtually no difference when it comes to graphic design and video production. I work in that area professionally and while Macs were the platform of choice years ago, it no longer really matters. I believe a big part of the "Macs are better for design work" idea goes back to when Apple use an OS with a GUI, whereas PCs were still using DOS.

As a side note, I know that Macs are technically PCs (personal computers) but there isn't a good name for a Windows-based computer. They used to be called "IBM compatibles" a couple of decades ago, but that term fell out of favor.

AlecJ32
02-22-2012, 12:57 PM
I believe a big part of the "Macs are better for design work" idea goes back to when Apple use an OS with a GUI, whereas PCs were still using DOS.

Windows has had a GUI for just as long as Macs. MS-DOS just had a shell, but MS-DOS wasn't the only thing around.

spartan0078
02-22-2012, 12:57 PM
I have nothing constructive to add, But colour me impressed that this thread is being mature and staying out of trouble!

Draek
02-22-2012, 03:18 PM
OS X is a proper UNIX system; that's part of the reason I have one for programming work. You get all the power of being in that environment, but none of the hassle of running a Linux distro.

Also, if you're writing code on a Mac and you need an IDE, there's Xcode, which is really rather nice.

No, it's not. Read the freaking post you quoted; OSX might have UNIX innards, but its system's whole design is MacOS from top to bottom. And I, for one, absolutely and positively despise MacOS.

Honestly, if you like it then go ahead and be my guest, but don't say you like it because it's UNIX; it's not, and if you really did appreciate UNIX then you'd be using Linux or (more likely) one of the BSDs instead. To make a gaming analogy, it'd be like saying you prefer STALKER over Baldur's Gate 2 because you're a big fan of RPG elements in videogames.

As a side note, I know that Macs are technically PCs (personal computers) but there isn't a good name for a Windows-based computer. They used to be called "IBM compatibles" a couple of decades ago, but that term fell out of favor.

There is, they're called "Wintel" systems (Windows + Intel-compatible). And as a side effect, it clarifies you're only comparing OSX to Windows rather than one of the Free UNIXen or one of the other, more obscure OSes for PC architectures.

Mangr0v3
02-22-2012, 03:42 PM
No, it's not. Read the freaking post you quoted; OSX might have UNIX innards, but its system's whole design is MacOS from top to bottom. And I, for one, absolutely and positively despise MacOS.

Honestly, if you like it then go ahead and be my guest, but don't say you like it because it's UNIX; it's not, and if you really did appreciate UNIX then you'd be using Linux or (more likely) one of the BSDs instead. To make a gaming analogy, it'd be like saying you prefer STALKER over Baldur's Gate 2 because you're a big fan of RPG elements in videogames.

Mac OS X is built on UNIX. Linux is UNIX-Like.

Draek
02-22-2012, 04:42 PM
Mac OS X is built on UNIX. Linux is UNIX-Like.

Wrong. To repeat myself, again, UNIX is not a trademark, it's a design philosophy and one OSX does NOT follow. Again, NOT follow, OSX is a MacOS, not an UNIX system. Don't use the rights to that phony trademark they paid for to say Apple's OSX is UNIX unless you understand what UNIX is to begin with.

KuranesDreamer
02-22-2012, 05:01 PM
IMO, there is no comparison.

For a while, I believed Mac had some good software exclusive only to them. Then I got a MacBook for christmas one year. How ♥♥♥♥ing wrong I was. There was absolutely nothing that came with the Mac or that I could download, that I couldn't also find a program to do the exact same things better, faster, and more reliably than the Mac.

I kept that MacBook for about 6 months before I decided to sell it and just get a normal Windows laptop.

Wrong. To repeat myself, again, UNIX is not a trademark, it's a design philosophy and one OSX does NOT follow. Again, NOT follow, OSX is a MacOS, not an UNIX system. Don't use the rights to that phony trademark they paid for to say Apple's OSX is UNIX unless you understand what UNIX is to begin with.

I think you need to educate yourself some more, because Mac OS X (That is Mac Operating System 10) is a UNIX operating system based on NeXTSTEP. It also uses BSD codebase in it. Unix is also a trademarked OS as well; not a design philosophy. So you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Snorkel
02-22-2012, 05:04 PM
One of my friends just lost his second macbook to this problem (https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1301&bih=636&q=expanded+macbook+battery&gbv=2&oq=expanded+macb&aq=0S&aqi=g-S1&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=551l4372l0l6671l13l13l0l0l0l0l323l1973l6.3. 3.1l13l0)

Mangr0v3
02-22-2012, 05:09 PM
Wrong. To repeat myself, again, UNIX is not a trademark, it's a design philosophy and one OSX does NOT follow. Again, NOT follow, OSX is a MacOS, not an UNIX system. Don't use the rights to that phony trademark they paid for to say Apple's OSX is UNIX unless you understand what UNIX is to begin with.

I think you need to educate yourself some more, because Mac OS X (That is Mac Operating System 10) is a UNIX operating system based on NeXTSTEP. It also uses BSD codebase in it. Unix is also a trademarked OS as well; not a design philosophy. So you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Yup. UNIX is a standard specification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification).

KuranesDreamer
02-22-2012, 05:11 PM
Yup. UNIX is a standard specification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification).

It is also a trademarked Operating System, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix) which makes up core components of Apple's Mac OS X.

UniqueName02
02-22-2012, 05:11 PM
The problem is that many people are buying cheap PCs and then comparing them to a brand new Mac, they get the wrong impression of Windows this way.

A lot of people seem to be saying how Macs are so overpriced in comparison to a hand built PC not realising that there is a difference between a hand built PC and an all in one. If you compared all in one PCs then you would find out that an iMac actually gives you decent value for money.

Mangr0v3
02-22-2012, 05:17 PM
It is also a trademarked Operating System, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix) which makes up core components of Apple's Mac OS X.

However in the context of Draek not knowing what he's on about, Mac OS X is clearly a UNIX OS (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Unix_history-simple.svg). The specifics of what a UNIX OS is is not completely relevant to the discussion.

AlecJ32
02-22-2012, 07:01 PM
UNIX unless you understand what UNIX is to begin with.

Then perhaps a good starting point would be for you to clarify what EXACTLY UNIX is.

Zodiark1593
02-22-2012, 07:04 PM
Then perhaps a good starting point would be for you to clarify what EXACTLY UNIX is.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+Unix

Dealwithit07
02-22-2012, 07:09 PM
I prefer my PC's

I have the freedom to use thousands of more third party programs. Games obviously, our library is the largest of any. It even incorporates previous consoles up to the PS2 and Gamecube at this point. It is much easier and friendly to more people since Windows has been used for over a decade and usability hasn't really changed. Also the larger market of different companies that make them. And more businesses use PC within the work place for over 20 years.

Last but not least, Bill Gates donates money constantly throughout his entire life time. Jobs didn't even donate to the Fund of the cancer he had. I feel better knowing I use a machine whose CEO cares about giving a better life to those who need it.

AlecJ32
02-22-2012, 07:33 PM
A lot of people seem to be saying how Macs are so overpriced in comparison to a hand built PC not realising that there is a difference between a hand built PC and an all in one. If you compared all in one PCs then you would find out that an iMac actually gives you decent value for money.

Compare something less obscure than a computer built into a monitor (which is something that Apple is the only company aggressively pursuing), and you'll notice that Apple's computers are far more expensive compared to other offerings of equivalent quality. If the all-in-one style were popular and widely produced by other manufacturers, I'm sure you would find it to be true there, too.

Look at laptops. Currently, for the price of the base 13" Macbook Pro, containing an i5 dual-core and integrated video, you can purchase a 15" Lenovo W520 laptop with an i7 quad core and an Nvidia Quadro graphics card. So in terms of power and functionality, you're getting a much better value with Lenovo. On top of that (and I used to be someone who maintained a large inventory of work-owned Lenovo and Apple laptops), Lenovo's build quality and warranty easily rival that of Apple's. For those who would argue that the Macbook pro is smaller and offers better 'mobility' and battery life, there are similar Lenovo laptops for considerably less than the Macbook pro.

Furthermore, anybody with a budget under $1000 simply cannot purchase a new Mac laptop. The vast majority of people I know did not spend $1000+ on a laptop because that would have been well beyond their budget. Maybe it's just me, but I get the idea that Apple likes to keep an appearance of 'luxury' associated with their name. They don't want poor people like us middle-classers walking around with their laptops...They want it to be exclusive to people within a certain tax bracket.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+Unix

I want to hear it from him, because his opinion clearly (had you actually read the conversation leading up to my post. Nothing irks me more than people who act as if they're illiterate and don't bother to read. Anybody born privileged enough to be taught how to read should utilize their good fortune instead of wasting it) doesn't align directly with the 'official' definition of UNIX. If you Google UNIX, you'll find that it's a trademark, as Draek is clearly aware of, made evident by the several times he has pointed it out and said it doesn't agree with the philosophies behind UNIX. I want to know what HE, not the first page of Google, believes UNIX is all about.

Re-insert coin and try again, please.

Honestly, lmgtfy posts, especially when the poster was clearly to lazy to even read the discussion, contribute nothing to the thread, however, I'll file my complain about that type of thing elsewhere.

Excygy
02-22-2012, 07:37 PM
Mature + Mac in same sentence = CANNOT COMPUTE

:p


"While sitting outside, enjoying the heat of summer and eating my big mac burger,I was watching some mature women down the street."

:cool:


here! done it, do i get a cookie?

Zodiark1593
02-22-2012, 07:54 PM
I want to hear it from him, because his opinion clearly (had you actually read the conversation leading up to my post. Nothing irks me more than people who act as if they're illiterate and don't bother to read. Anybody born privileged enough to be taught how to read should utilize their good fortune instead of wasting it) doesn't align directly with the 'official' definition of UNIX. If you Google UNIX, you'll find that it's a trademark, as Draek is clearly aware of, made evident by the several times he has pointed it out and said it doesn't agree with the philosophies behind UNIX. I want to know what HE, not the first page of Google, believes UNIX is all about.

Re-insert coin and try again, please.

Honestly, lmgtfy posts, especially when the poster was clearly to lazy to even read the discussion, contribute nothing to the thread, however, I'll express that in more detail elsewhere.
I read the majority of this thread, the only paged I simply skimmed was pg 8 and part of 9, where it went into unix, though I admit I didn't read enough of either of the two to see the topic go in this direction. And yes, I apologize.

As for the "Let Me Google That For You" thing, I remembered it's use in another thread, so I thought it was called for. By your reaction, I'd assume it holds a more offensive meaning than I know.

*re-inserts coin*

Unix itself is trademarked and is not a philosophy. However, Unix seems to follow the "Unix Philosophy". As of yet, I'm not sure whether one came before the other, or came to simultaneously.

HomerPepsi
02-22-2012, 08:51 PM
The only programmer I know who carries a Mac has Win7 OS on it. Nuff said.

So true. I feel like Mac OS is waaaay more restrictive and annoying to work around than windows. That plus the fact that pretty much everything I want/need uses the windows architecture means I will have no interest in using mac os for a long time.

PERSONAL PREFERENCE <--- except if you need to use a program which is only compatible with one of the operating systems (which is likely Windows).

(Edit: I also stopped reading after page 2)

ne_skaju
02-23-2012, 12:35 AM
PC is better for me because I don't like Mac keyboard. And don't like that it throws me to desktop if I misclick in photoshop.

Masterclown
02-23-2012, 04:17 AM
I don't know about you guys, but I'm considering one of these

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/imac/27

I like some of the iApps, plain and simple, not to mention that the monitor looks great.

Europhoria
02-23-2012, 04:24 AM
Wow. I was going to buy a Dell 30" monitor for that much. :(

dxmc
02-23-2012, 04:36 AM
I don't know about you guys, but I'm considering one of these

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/imac/27

I like some of the iApps, plain and simple, not to mention that the monitor looks great.

As I think was mentioned earlier I guess it's a matter of personal taste. My Sony laptop was comparably priced and I have it hooked up to a 32" 1080p Bravia HDTV by HDMI. I also have 2 external HDDs hooked up to it, a 2 Tb and a 500 Gb, for a total of 3 Tb of space.And it has a Blu-Ray player, integrated Realtek sound and a lot of other stuff.And you can't throw that Mac in a bag and head to the beach.

I`m not knocking your choice but I personally think those Macs are overpriced compared to the PC.I just feel that I get a lot more bang for my buck with my PC, but, at the end of the day,if that fits your personal aesthetic, needs and budget it`s a good choice.

Firestorm998
02-23-2012, 04:49 AM
Well played OP.

Mangr0v3
02-23-2012, 02:59 PM
And you can't throw that Mac in a bag and head to the beach.

1. Unplug power cord.
2. Pack into bag.
3. Head to beach.

4. Find power outlet at beach.

Hivomnomnom
02-23-2012, 03:02 PM
>macs vs pcs
>mature
You ♥♥♥♥ed up, son. You ♥♥♥♥ed up.

AlecJ32
02-23-2012, 03:38 PM
1. Unplug power cord.
2. Pack into bag.
3. Head to beach.

4. Find power outlet at beach.

Please tell me you're being facetious and not utterly foolish.

Mangr0v3
02-23-2012, 03:40 PM
I'm being facetious and not utterly foolish.

KiteX3
02-23-2012, 04:31 PM
Eh, I just use Linux.

Well, I use Windows too for gaming, but Linux just plain makes my work easier, and it's a lot easier with my particular brain chemistry. For whatever insane reason, I actually find the terminal is very intuitive and easy to use, and of course useful.

As for OS X, I do sort of like it, but it feels like a somewhat weaker version of Linux. It has a nice flavor of UNIX, but it's like drinking a latte compared to the strong black coffee that is Linux. (Windows fits into this metaphor as chocolate milk, if you're wondering.) Only coffee really has a place in my daily schedule.

NightStrider
02-23-2012, 04:35 PM
For some reason i find macs to be clunky? Personally, i prefer pcs simple due to the price and the games - u get better hardware the same price as well as upgrades. And i have reasons to hate apple.

Draek
02-23-2012, 04:36 PM
I think you need to educate yourself some more, because Mac OS X (That is Mac Operating System 10) is a UNIX operating system based on NeXTSTEP. It also uses BSD codebase in it. Unix is also a trademarked OS as well; not a design philosophy. So you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Even if we allowed the foolish notion that UNIX is nothing but a trademark controlled by The Open Group, you'd still be wrong because it's not "also" but "because". Pretty much everything that is UNIX in OSX comes from NeXTSTEP, since *that* was the OS built on top of the BSD codebase; most of what Apple added later was MacOS, if not in code then at least in design philosophy.

Yup. UNIX is a standard specification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification).

Nope, that's POSIX. Being POSIX-compliant is one of the requirements The Open Group poses to acquire a license to the UNIX trademark (another one being, of course, paying them a truckload of cash, which is why Linux and the BSDs don't have it), but again that's only a trademark. And the UNIX trademark does not define the concept of UNIX any more than the trademark of Windows defines what a window is.

Then perhaps a good starting point would be for you to clarify what EXACTLY UNIX is.

Have fun (http://catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/).