Balence desperatly needed in games.

[ace lonewolf]

Teams in this game are in desperate need of balance due mainly to the auto match system for getting rated games being awful to use with so small a player base.

I have done a fair amount of rated games so have a high rating, but if i join a game that has for example 6 average players on 50 rating, 5 new players on their first game and me the current auto balance feature will match the 6 average players against the 1 high rated player and the 5 new players and assume that the 1 experienced player can carry (they cant).

The other problem is people who have played hundreds of games but done 0 rated games so have mark 5 ships and no rating.

Please change the way rating works so it is based on overall game play stats not just the current auto matched games to reduce the amount of team lottery going on with it simply being a matter of luck getting a fun game.

It gets boring very quickly being on a team that outclasses the other team and rolls over them forcing a 15 min surrender and its awful being on the outclassed team who end up just sitting in spawn area waiting for the 15 min mark.

So please devs bring some balance sooner rather than later or with in a month no one will be left playing.

[Ronewird]

Teams in this game are in desperate need of balance due mainly to the auto match system for getting rated games being awful to use with so small a player base.

I have done a fair amount of rated games so have a high rating, but if i join a game that has for example 6 average players on 50 rating, 5 new players on their first game and me the current auto balance feature will match the 6 average players against the 1 high rated player and the 5 new players and assume that the 1 experienced player can carry (they cant).

The other problem is people who have played hundreds of games but done 0 rated games so have mark 5 ships and no rating.

Please change the way rating works so it is based on overall game play stats not just the current auto matched games to reduce the amount of team lottery going on with it simply being a matter of luck getting a fun game.

It gets boring very quickly being on a team that outclasses the other team and rolls over them forcing a 15 min surrender and its awful being on the outclassed team who end up just sitting in spawn area waiting for the 15 min mark.

So please devs bring some balance sooner rather than later or with in a month no one will be left playing.


I agree at all.

The best is to calculate an average every 100 games betwenn the ratio win/lose.

If i make 80 games and 60 win and 20 lose. my ratio is still 0 becouse bellow one hundred.

If i make 100 games with 60 win and 40 lose. My ratio is 6

If i make 200 games 133 win and 67 lose. My ratio is 6.67

[KDR_11k]

Just make all games affect the rating. Sure, stacked games would increase the rating then but the tendency to stack should probably be one factor in the rating anyway.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

They just need to make automatch a more attractive way of playing.

Problem of custom giving rank is there will be people just stacking and playing one map to farm rank.

Not to mention the dodging as well =[

[KDR_11k]

Meh, if they farm rank they'll suddenly be facing a situation where the only people who want to play with them completely curbstomp them.

[egghead]

Just make all games affect the rating. Sure, stacked games would increase the rating then but the tendency to stack should probably be one factor in the rating anyway.

Best idea so far. Winning normal games grand a very small ammount of rating, good performance in that game for example dying less than 5 times gives another small bonus, spending a lot of time next to teammates grants anothe small bonus, using a special that also affects a teammate should grant points too. All together the rating should improve a fair ammount, but playing ranked matches should stay the best way to make rating.

They just nned to make automatch a more attractive way of playing.

Problem of custom giving rank is there will be people just stacking and playing one map to farm rank.

Not to mention the dodging as well =[

To make that automatch more attractive you would need to increase the count of fair games. Full team of red MK5 versus some guys who want to have fun at their MK3's wont be fun for neither of the two teams.
That can only be achieved by more players in the game and more players that have rating. "Dodging" at the moment results because people do not want to loose the 3rd time in a row against an opponent that out-equips them.

On a sidenote: I laughed when i saw you complaining about "stacking".

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

Is a 1.5 to 3% bonus really out equiping?

Dodging results from fear of losing due to skill imbalance perception.

[egghead]

Is a 1.5 to 3% bonus really out equiping?

Dodging results from fear of losing due to skill imbalance perception.

Hmm math might not be your strong side, but 3% to have are about 2.9% better than having them not. Full set of red medals are... hmm lets calculate... 4-8 more passive skills to choose from and a mark 5 ship means that i have enough skill points in the endgame to increase EVERY skill in the first tech levels which grands a nice bonus at the first 5-8 minutes of the game where you can harvest a nice cp advantage which you can invest into passive upgrades and fleet to even further improve your dominance.

The repeated insisting on the dogma that upgrades are no big improvement at all let me riddle what game you are playing and why the ♥♥♥♥ are you using your upgrades anyway because they have "no meaning" at all.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

Math is your strong point i see... but i guess skill is not.

Even i had to play mk1 vs mk5 when i was leveling ships. i did not care about small bonus's, i just took good mk 1 builds and carried on killing people and winning games.

[egghead]

Yeah back in the days... surely can you beat better ships with what you call "skill" but versus a good player you do not want to be behind in terms of stats. You guys are always referring to that one game where you beat a newcomer in a mk5 with your mk1 but do not want to accept the fact that real fair games only happen on the same equip levels. Its ridiculous how great you guys feel, how "skill-heavy" you feel after having beaten a lower player with pure stats. I have been lampooned by mk5 players because they where so good to beat me in a mk1. And maybe thats the reason why this game is not growing, because the community loves to hit the people who are already on the ground instead of reaching them a hand.

What you call skill, what made your great rating is mostly made of item dominance. If you do not accept the fact that items have a major impact on the game and a lot of the games you won where won because you had better items than the opponent then you are kidding yourself.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

Your psychic skills are not very good either...

I am refering to the beta days when all our skill levels were similar.

Its ok i guess you are new to the game and soon experiance will be better than your assumptions.

[egghead]

130 hours according to steam ingame, 300ish rating and i know when a newcomer has no real chance because of my items or because he does plain stupid stuff but in both cases you think your godly skill is superior. Let me tell you after seeing you play... it is not. A lot of the stuff you do only works if you have superior equipment.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

This is the thing... you dont know.

Were you in the beta? cos i dont remember you. judging by you saying 130 steam hours i guess you joined when this game was released on steam.

[egghead]

This is the thing... you dont know.

Were you in the beta? cos i dont remember you. judging by you saying 130 steam hours i guess you joined when this game was released on steam.

And here comes the great attitude of the established players. No wonder this game is dying.

No i was not in the beta and yes i got it on steam release. While this proves that i do not know how this game used to be, its no argument on how much i know about the game as it is now. Playing the "i was in the beta" card is just one more ridiculous argument.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

Well lets settle this with a 2v2 game, all MK5 so its balanced in your eyes, but i guess not, as you said my skill is bad and yours is better it will be a easy win for you.

Bring a friend with a MK5. lets see what happens

[egghead]

Well lets settle this with a 2v2 game, all MK5 so its balanced in your eyes, but i guess not, as you said my skill is bad and yours is better it will be a easy win for you.

Bring a friend with a MK5. lets see what happens

Sometimes i wonder if we play the same game, but this time i wonder if we are reading the same thread. I did not say that your "skill" is bad, i said that some things you do would not work on a ship without upgrades. We can for sure make that game as soon as my mate is online.

Edit: But besides i wonder what that duel will prove, besides healing your hurt ego. At least it can be an interesting game.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

Excellent, im on TS. give me a shout when you want a game =]

Whats your ingame name btw?

Edit: It will prove that your high MK will smash my MK1. Isnt that what you want?

[egghead]

My ingame nick is "idontcare" and my mate is "noneofyourbusiness".

Edit: Names removed.

[KDR_11k]

Some skills only come into their own at higher levels (e.g. the damage bonus of the scanner and range bonus of the radar beacon only come with upgraded skills) but a Mk1 ship can't have many high level skills. At Mk3 you've already got a good amount of points and stuff but at Mk1 you're quite gimped especially on ships that rely more on their skills than their physical attributes (not saying that some ships can get by without skills but some can get by with fewer skill upgrades). Not really a nice welcome to new players.

Mk1 lets you pick 6/13 skill upgrades, Mk5 10/13.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

There are several skills that are good without the need to put points into them.

Quantum leap
Prio Target
Countermeasures
Quantom Accelerator

These are just a few of them.

[zeropositivo]

Blank, it's useless. This guy just likes to take what you say and twist it around

Funny thing is, I can think of several examples of skill winning over equipment, and funny that, I'm not even talking about me (in fact, most of the time I was the one with the equipment advantage)
The most blatant example is a player called Manta. He was so good, he had a rating so high noone wanted to play against him. So he made smurf accounts, and played those. When his new rating got too high, he made new ones (back in the day where there was the mk1 limited f2p formula)

He was basically always playing at mk1, yet he had no problem in being better than basically anyone whatsoever

...why am I even wasting time? He's not going to listen anyway

[KDR_11k]

I agree that skill matters more but at equal skill tiny advantages can just make the difference.

And hell, a Mk5 ship at least shows that the player likely knows how to use it. I get worried when key roles on my team are filled by Mk1s.

[egghead]

I listened very well so far, but i will stop now. Yet again everything you contributed to this conversion is nothing but hot air. My oppinion stands as it is and has not been disproven:

Upgrades are an advantage. In a close fight, this advantage can decide win or loss. "Skill" as you call it is the ability to use that advantages. A fair fight can only be achieved by opponents at the same equipment level (same reason why we have weight classes in boxing and other sports). I would not say that i am better than any person, even the one i have beaten, before i encounter them in a fair fight.


Have fun flaming people with different oppinions, i am out of this conversation.

[zeropositivo]

If you knew better/looked around/had been here before you would have knew how ridicolous you're sounding to pretty much all those I've talked to.

I've been helping get the game going, I've given positive criticism to a guy who made a NEGATIVE review, and even tried to ease up the spirits when some people started being a little flammy against a guy who had only shared his own opinion. I've done countless "advanced tutorials" ingame to help new players get started and get a feel of how the game is played

So, you telling me that I'm flaming you is incredibly ridicolous. Congrats to you, anyway, you're the third person I've ever met who managed to make me lose my temper. That might help your inflated ego feel good, I guess. Have fun, close the door behind you please

[egghead]

Have you read through the whole thread? Have you read your own posting that you are refering to?

In your post you treat me basicly like an idiot and tell me to turn off my torrent downloads if i experience lag. You also accuse me of being an idiot because i mix serverside lag with clientside lag when everybody in the same game has the same lag.

And now this threat. I responded to the idea that a little bit of rating would be a good idea for the open aka unrated games and that people do not like to be steamrolled by better equiped players. Than one of the before mentioned better equiped players jumps out of the bush and starts the bashing that all he does is "skill", no items involved. After the argument "skill" vs. "stats" you come in and question my credibility accusing me once more by saying that i "twist words" and use them against you. If you have a problem with me using your own statements against your argumentation, be it but to me you are looking like the one who is twisting words.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

Hey Garremp...

Search DamnBlinks profile.

Looks like I did a lot of steamrolling with a MK 1

Im still waiting for that game =]

[egghead]

Have fun waiting, you will wait for that game as long as i had to wait for a reasonable argument.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

Backing out now ?

Its a shame you dont want to back up your arguement with evidence of a actual game.

Oh well i guess asumptions are working out for you. carry on as you are.

[zeropositivo]

In your post you treat me basicly like an idiot and tell me to turn off my torrent downloads if i experience lag.

"I do agree that there seems to be some specific people gettint the spinning, and for different people, it even seems to happen for different reasons (for example, it happens to me when I'm lagging the connection, IE. skype open, torrent open, game open...)"

Tell me, in that sentence, when I mention that you are a idiot who is running torrent while playing. Or maybe I'm talking about what *I* experienced? If you do not know what an example and hyperbole is.. oh my god, why do I even bother?

I swear, if I give this guy more attention, remember me to bite my own finger off

[egghead]

Backing out now ?

Its a shame you dont want to back up your arguement with evidence of a actual game.

Oh well i guess asumptions are working out for you. carry on as you are.

You are right. I was wrong. I am backing out. You are made of skill. I am a terrible person. zeropositivo's post was valuable for the discussion. I fell for the flamebait.

[AyanKitas]

The only balance this game desperately needs is a Support ship nerf.

Downgrade cannon size.
Downgrade armor.
Allow multiple sentries based on points in, instead of three off the bat.
Slow repair from repair bay on ships being hit.

Pick one or more. It is to the point where you cannot kill a Support ship without an arty once it hunkers down like a chigger. You have a ship with massive structure/armor with decent weaponry, sitting on top of three turrets and a repair bay, and the ship is fast enough to go do what it wants, take as much damage as it wants to from 2 to 3 guys, and immediately be healed of all of it.

The only sane way to deal with Support mid/late is to have an arty. There's no other ship that can do what it does with so little.

[-QL^BLaNKMiND]

I fell for the flamebait.
where is the flame bait ? i dont see any... maybe you can quote me?


Loot drops only give build variation in high level play.

At low level play they give a tiny advantage, no where near enough to give a game winning advantage, they only give an advantage to a person with skill.

Skill and team work > Items

you want to disprove that and hurt my ego ?

Then lets play. your highest MK and my MK 1 2v2.

Im waiting in TS.

[Skithe]

Ignore the 1 post thing I had to recreate a forum account lost my old one. Anyway

For the MK1 to Mk5 debate talking about skill lets be honest.

If you have not figured out how to play a ship by MK5 then something is terribly wrong.

Lets take a scenario. Assume the MK 1 (destroyer) has all optimal yellows for the highest EHP and DPS and the MK5 has reds. I will let you do the math and figure out what upgrades these are I like my elitist advantage. ;3. *note some ships margin is a lot higher.

At yellow your EHP will run 4,155 with a DPS of 147.39 with a volly of 715.50.

Now at Mk5 with reds your EHP 4,425 155.93dps and a volly of 742.50.

This is a marginal spread but with 4 extra skill points allocated in a flat battle with equal skilled players the MK5 will always win. Also with allocated medals they have other perks unlocked. Skill should not be an argument.

This particularly holds true with smaller ships as some come into their own as they have more points to utilize.

The only really over the top ship I see is support, it is a brick fully upgraded. 3 towers/repair and its GG unless you have 2 or more going in. Role to effectiveness it it sorely out of place it should not have the tank it has with the amount of damage it can produce.

Its not a terrible balance difference overall but any adv helps.

[palone]

Oh my god, please stop feeding that obvious trolling egghead guy.
I played about 50 hours so far and I can already tell that the more skilled player will almost always beat the less skilled one, no matter what mk level he has.
Once you have an item in each slot (11 games max.) the difference is just too small. You only need bronze medals to get the important cp cost passives and as Blankmind said, there are skills that do not require any leveling to be effective (Quantum Leap).

Noone will argue that you have a disadvantage in numbers to a player of a higher mk but what does that disadvantage mean? Maybe you will lose an engagement in every 100th game you play because of that difference, but will you lose a battle because of it? I highly doubt it.

Play a game with Blankmind to back up your arguments, tell us your ingame name to prove that you really have played at least a few games or just stop whining please.

[Ronewird]

ok skil are better than items and mk.

what about a skilled person with mk5 and red item, against a skilled person without mk5 and red item?

please stop talk non sense.

[palone]

ok skil are better than items and mk.

what about a skilled person with mk5 and red item, against a skilled person without mk5 and red item?


Would be an exciting fight as the red turret will not make a difference.
Stop whining in forums and actually start playing you noobs.

[Ronewird]

Would be an exciting fight as the red turret will not make a difference.
Stop whining in forums and actually start playing you noobs.

:eek:

Ok, i dont udenderstand the sense to put levelling in ship and add items if it dont make any difference.

Just remove anything, nothing change...

[zeropositivo]

ahh the glory of forums. Always so heated. Must be the medium, which has no form of contact, that favors dropping in, then dropping out, with no consequence other than someone's nickname being known in a very small community for rudeness

Let's stop this, guys. Please

[Ronewird]

ahh the glory of forums. Always so heated. Must be the medium, which has no form of contact, that favors dropping in, then dropping out, with no consequence other than someone's nickname being known in a very small community for rudeness

Let's stop this, guys. Please

That`s my mistake , already fixed.
Some time is better to do one step back.

[palone]

:eek:
Ok, i dont udenderstand the sense to put levelling in ship and add items if it dont make any difference.


Of course your ship gets better by numbers but you don't seem to understand that the win is not item dependant. The numbers are just too small to have such an impact on the game.
If you have two equally skilled players, one with mk5 and one with mk3 for example, then both players will not even notice the item difference.
One player will make more mistakes than the other one.
Luck also comes into play. If you're lucky and land a broadside of critical hits, then you will have an advantage over the other player, no matter if he's 4 mk's ahead of you.

But you guys really don't seem to have much ingame experience to know what I'm talking about, so I would advise you to go and play a few games.

That was my last comment is this thread.