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View Full Version : Ubisoft knows 95% of you are pirates ....


atLast
05-18-2012, 06:21 AM
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/23/ghost-recon-online-being-free-to-play-is-a-counter-to-piracy-says-ubisoft-producer/ ... My oh my.

tomfoolery_79
05-18-2012, 06:33 AM
What a bunch of BS. I pay for all my games, everyone I know pays for all their games. It's propaganda. It's like, if you have someone mad at you at school and then you go home and tell your parents "everyone" at school hates you. It's a gross exaggeration. 95%???? Are they high or just stupid?

atLast
05-18-2012, 06:51 AM
What a bunch of BS. I pay for all my games, everyone I know pays for all their games. It's propaganda. It's like, if you have someone mad at you at school and then you go home and tell your parents "everyone" at school hates you. It's a gross exaggeration. 95%???? Are they high or just stupid? High enough to let this guy behind a mic, stupid enough to not care. Iv'e been buying games since they have been been sold in plastic bags on KD's electronic store walls and when I see a clowndic like this run his mouth you know the end result will be second best at most. No mucho dinero from Me.

Applebee
05-18-2012, 06:56 AM
Rather than ridiculing them, you should be commending them. They saw what the demographic of PC gamers wanted (cheaper/free games), and they adapted to that model.

Rather than snub the PC market and not release any games on it (like some other developers), they instead adapted their model specifically for the PC crowd for Ghost Recon Online by giving players a game that's specifically build around our demands.

I say props to them for recognizing the issue and listening. He may have been wrong about the absurd 95% piracy figure (I believe he was just trying to sound sarcastic, rather than serious), but you can't blame them for not trying to deliver content in a way that PC gamers want.

Would you rather the console model of $60 per game, plus $15 for each endless number of DLC packs (a la CoD), or would you rather the TF2 model of free to play games, supported by cosmetic micro transactions? I wish more developers would make the latter, and that's what they're trying to do.

rmartinezdl
05-18-2012, 07:24 AM
lol thank god I saw this, I think no moneyz for you ubi♥♥♥♥

kayvent
05-18-2012, 07:29 AM
What a bunch of BS. I pay for all my games, everyone I know pays for all their games. It's propaganda. It's like, if you have someone mad at you at school and then you go home and tell your parents "everyone" at school hates you. It's a gross exaggeration. 95%???? Are they high or just stupid?

There is a famous story of Sega releasing a game pack of their classic games and the price was: whatever the user wanted to pay.

Less than 20% paid over a dollar, 50% paid nothing but through a third party tool, were able to download it illegally from Sega's own site. 0%paid anywhere near the pack's 'value' of 50$.

Well I agree 95% is an exaggeration, I wouldn't call it gross.

rmartinezdl
05-18-2012, 07:37 AM
There is a famous story of Sega releasing a game pack of their classic games and the price was: whatever the user wanted to pay.

Less than 20% paid over a dollar, 50% paid nothing but through a third party tool, were able to download it illegally from Sega's own site. 0%paid anywhere near the pack's 'value' of 50$.

Well I agree 95% is an exaggeration, I wouldn't call it gross.

If you give someone the chance to grab something free, they will grab it for free, what companies need to do is, release GOOD GAMES (something ubisoft cant do) at reasonable prices, not freaking console ports at $60 and then be surprised that no one bought your game.

IF YOUR GAME IS GOOD AT A GOOD PRICE, WE WILL BUY YOUR GAME.

You cant complain for something you caused yourself.

A good example is Payday the heist, maybe not the game of the year, but an interesting concept at just $20, with great support. I bought it because its $20 and not $60

Resonanse
05-18-2012, 07:39 AM
Obviously the '95%' figure is overblown but the point made is likely accurate. The vast amount of PC gamers pirate to some degree - no matter their reason. [There're some legitimate excuses for piracy, that's not part of this debate however].
Ubisofy are clearly trying to adapt to that realization, and after the DRM outcry from AC2 are attempting something different.

A good example is Payday the heist, maybe not the game of the year, but an interesting concept at just $20, with great support. I bought it because its $20 and not $60

Paydays development cost was also likely a miniscule percentage of the latest Assassin's Creed game [or any other AAA game]. Big companies can't survive on charity and due to the ease of piracy and frequency of discounts PC sales at full-price are low. They may even themselves out through sales over a few years [PC games have a longer shelf-life than their console counter-parts] but that's no good if you've just put out a game and require sales to fund your next project.

rmartinezdl
05-18-2012, 07:51 AM
Obviously the '95%' figure is overblown but the point made is likely accurate. The vast amount of PC gamers pirate to some degree - no matter their reason. [There're some legitimate excuses for piracy, that's not part of this debate however].
Ubisofy are clearly trying to adapt to that realization, and after the DRM outcry from AC2 are attempting something different.



Paydays development cost was also likely a miniscule percentage of the latest Assassin's Creed game [or any other AAA game]. Big companies can't survive on charity and due to the ease of piracy and frequency of discounts PC sales at full-price are low. They may even themselves out through sales over a few years [PC games have a longer shelf-life than their console counter-parts] but that's no good if you've just put out a game and require sales to fund your next project.

Im not talking about the budget, Im talking that if your games dont deserve the ammount of money you are asking for, you wont get it, period.

Ubisoft dont even care about pc gamers, and pc development is not that huge, 12 guys porting for 3 months? I dont think so, now if you develop a game SEPARATELY FROM ITS CONSOLE TEAM, and the game is great for pc, I would even pay $60 for it.

ubisoft games just dont deserve the money and AC is the only game I would exclude, the detail in those games are worth the money.

GrimCW
05-18-2012, 07:53 AM
Obviously the '95%' figure is overblown but the point made is likely accurate. The vast amount of PC gamers pirate to some degree - no matter their reason. [There're some legitimate excuses for piracy, that's not part of this debate however].
Ubisofy are clearly trying to adapt to that realization, and after the DRM outcry from AC2 are attempting something different.


if they truly believed in that stat then they wouldn't even bother with the PC market.
their backtracking and doing it anyways shows that someone in the higher ups has balls enough to realize its a mistake, and they keep pumping out PC titles anways. (oh and FYI the FBI has even come forward and stated that the piracy numbers companies like Ubi put out, are exaggerated beyond reason merely to inflate their false cause)
if the piracy was so high, let alone anywhere near that bad, then there'd be strictly loss in even developing/porting for the platform, thus making it a bad idea to even bother.
but clearly this is not the case, that or Ubi's going to bankrupt themselves over all this pirated content.

no matter how you look at it, they're clearly blowing nothing but hot air when they claim piracy is that bad.
And as other devs/publishers have come to learn, make a GOOD product and SUPPORT said product, and people WILL pay for it gladly. However be Ubi and only support your "top" titles, while shafting all others... well.. the results will end in lackluster sales they'll easily blame on piracy.

tomfoolery_79
05-18-2012, 07:58 AM
There is a famous story of Sega releasing a game pack of their classic games and the price was: whatever the user wanted to pay.

Less than 20% paid over a dollar, 50% paid nothing but through a third party tool, were able to download it illegally from Sega's own site. 0%paid anywhere near the pack's 'value' of 50$.

Well I agree 95% is an exaggeration, I wouldn't call it gross.

You couldn't be more wrong. The publisher said "whatever you want to pay". That means either zero or $50,000. People choosing zero is perfectly fine and legal as stipulated by Sega. On the other hand saying, this is $39.99. That is black and white, right or wrong. Either you pay it or you don't (or you steal it). Stealing is wrong period. Paying zero when allowed by the company is fine.

atLast
05-18-2012, 08:01 AM
Rather than ridiculing them, you should be commending them. They saw what the demographic of PC gamers wanted (cheaper/free games), and they adapted to that model.

Rather than snub the PC market and not release any games on it (like some other developers), they instead adapted their model specifically for the PC crowd for Ghost Recon Online by giving players a game that's specifically build around our demands.

I say props to them for recognizing the issue and listening. He may have been wrong about the absurd 95% piracy figure (I believe he was just trying to sound sarcastic, rather than serious), but you can't blame them for not trying to deliver content in a way that PC gamers want.

Would you rather the console model of $60 per game, plus $15 for each endless number of DLC packs (a la CoD), or would you rather the TF2 model of free to play games, supported by cosmetic micro transactions? I wish more developers would make the latter, and that's what they're trying to do. You must understand this was not there first sense of direction, we all know how that turned out. One of the major flaws is the 95%, sure it is absured but he claims thats what the foundation of this so called new way is based upon. Its not really a matter of little things like this article its more of the fact that these companies at the end of the day only care about profits with little effort and even less support and they will change suit at the drop of a hat to get it. You just cant trust them to deliver a true PC experiance anymore.

GrimCW
05-18-2012, 08:16 AM
You just cant trust them to deliver a true PC experiance anymore.

their reasoning for that though is the flop that the PC exclusive versions of GRAW had...
but i blame them for having given Grin less than 12 months to ground up develop the game with minimal carry over from the console counterparts. And expecting it to be so well off they could drop support for it within 6 months and move to the next project right away.
Ubi got hammered for this when it happened for a bit, and ever since they've been edgy around the PC market. Thus they've been avoiding the issue by simply making ports instead, to which also lead to more trouble when Rainbow Six Vegas was released in such an horrendous state they wanted to dump it within 2 months just to get over it.
had it not been for a pending lawsuit and tons of BBB complaints, i doubt R6V would've ever been stabilized and gotten the free map packs (of which were partially a "we're sorry we suck" and "we weren't planning on this clearly so we had no distribution/sales method in place and can't charge for them" situation)

Ubi knows it pi**ed off PC gamers royally, and its why they're either treading lightly with simple ports, or trying to sneak away hoping no one will notice, all the while whining about piracy of their underdeveloped, and under supported titles.
Yet for some reason they still come crawling back for more despite they claim that more it'll just be pirated so bad that its worthless to do so..

tbh i think they're saying such things deliberately to try and get it to be true enough they can quietly sneak off at last and play on what they think is a safer platform (FYI its actually far easier to pirate a 360 game than it is a PC one, and less risky for your system)

AlHudson1
05-18-2012, 11:02 AM
I don't care I just planning to buy and play Future Soldier on PC.

xruiner89
05-18-2012, 12:52 PM
My current library of 351 games says otherwise.

Heisterburg
05-19-2012, 07:56 AM
If you give someone the chance to grab something free, they will grab it for free, what companies need to do is, release GOOD GAMES (something ubisoft cant do) at reasonable prices, not freaking console ports at $60 and then be surprised that no one bought your game.

IF YOUR GAME IS GOOD AT A GOOD PRICE, WE WILL BUY YOUR GAME.

You cant complain for something you caused yourself.

A good example is Payday the heist, maybe not the game of the year, but an interesting concept at just $20, with great support. I bought it because its $20 and not $60

This^ People will spend money on what they think is good. Heck, Minecraft barely has any DRM other than multiplayer (which I don't use) but I bought my copy, and didn't pirate it, as did a ridiculous amount of other people.

if they truly believed in that stat then they wouldn't even bother with the PC market.
their backtracking and doing it anyways shows that someone in the higher ups has balls enough to realize its a mistake, and they keep pumping out PC titles anways. (oh and FYI the FBI has even come forward and stated that the piracy numbers companies like Ubi put out, are exaggerated beyond reason merely to inflate their false cause)
if the piracy was so high, let alone anywhere near that bad, then there'd be strictly loss in even developing/porting for the platform, thus making it a bad idea to even bother.
but clearly this is not the case, that or Ubi's going to bankrupt themselves over all this pirated content.

no matter how you look at it, they're clearly blowing nothing but hot air when they claim piracy is that bad.
And as other devs/publishers have come to learn, make a GOOD product and SUPPORT said product, and people WILL pay for it gladly. However be Ubi and only support your "top" titles, while shafting all others... well.. the results will end in lackluster sales they'll easily blame on piracy.

I don't doubt you, but do you have links to a source for this information? It sounds very interesting.

GrimCW
05-19-2012, 08:36 AM
My current library of 351 games says otherwise.

455 :) and thats just steam! I hold plenty on GoG, Gamefly, and the consoles too :p
sales/good titles are the decision makers for me, but hype, lack of demos, and bad DRM are instant turn offs.



I don't doubt you, but do you have links to a source for this information? It sounds very interesting.

maybe it was a later article or i misread it, been a long time. but heres a tidbit on an investigation into the numbers.
http://gamepolitics.com/2010/04/14/study-us-piracy-and-counterfeiting-data-unsubstantiated

i'll see if i can't find the other part, as i'm sure thats not the one i'm looking for..

AlHudson1
05-19-2012, 10:43 AM
455 :) and thats just steam! I hold plenty on GoG, Gamefly, and the consoles too :p
sales/good titles are the decision makers for me, but hype, lack of demos, and bad DRM are instant turn offs.


I'm jealous!!! how do you have time to play?

Right now I'm considering to forget about gaming forever since I don't have enough time.

GrimCW
05-19-2012, 10:54 AM
I'm jealous!!! how do you have time to play?

Right now I'm considering to forget about gaming forever since I don't have enough time.

no family, just a live in GF that also games (lately she's on a Mass Effect kick...) :)
and when i drink i drink at home, no need to waste cash on clubs and bars.. Halo + drunkenness = fun :)


the chickens/ducks don't need much attn, the gardens not exactly going anywhere yet, and the yard only really needs a good mowing once a week.

plenty of time between daily life and work.
and before its asked, i own my house/land, so no basement dweller here :)
and tbh i wouldn't want anyone living in my basement.. the ol' cistern wouldn't make a good bath. :p

ProximateTen
05-20-2012, 12:41 AM
Now I've pirated a share of games in the past, and 90% of them were so ♥♥♥♥ I would never consider paying $100NZ for them. However, since I've been using steam more in the last 2 years, my piracy rate has dropped to nothing. I own over 700 console titles on various platforms and about 300 steam games. Personally I believe it's publishers bad practices that drive people to piracy. Charging way too much for substandard products, draconian DRM that makes it far more worth while to pirate. As Gabe Newell said when asked about Steam's success in Russia (one of the biggest pirating nations in the world I believe):

"The people who are telling you that Russians pirate everything are the people who wait six months to localize their product into Russia,” said Newell. “It doesn’t take much in terms of providing a better service to make pirates a non-issue.”
“The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work,” Newell said. “It’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they’re receiving from the pirates.”

And that is the crux of it.. providing a service that is BETTER than what they get from the pirates. No publisher except Valve actually do this. Now of course steam IS DRM.. but it's DRM that is so transparent and non-invasive that I don't mind it at all

GrimCW
05-20-2012, 10:58 AM
And that is the crux of it.. providing a service that is BETTER than what they get from the pirates. No publisher except Valve actually do this. Now of course steam IS DRM.. but it's DRM that is so transparent and non-invasive that I don't mind it at all

CD Projekt Red does even more than Valve actually.
they offer 100% DRM free compared to Valves Steam lockdown, as well as offer massive updates for free for their personal titles. (versus valves kinda half rude throwing TF2 out for free and given nothing in return to those that paid for it, then shoving an in game "store" to suck more cash out. not that they didn't give out freebies before starting to get a bit one the edge.. still loving them in L4D where consoles must pay :) )
Not to mention their part in GoG.com to bring back old school titles DRM free and at fair prices, as well as ensuring they WORK before release... Many old titles that Steam offers aren't even looked at, Valve just takes whats given to them and post it (their own words in a way.. just ask'em sometime)
so we end up with half working, or broken older games on steam that the users need to find fixes for since Valve won't.

Fine example is BloodRayne 2, i can't for the life of me get that to work, and STEAM's support just redirects you to the defunct (as in they don't care anymore) publisher support.

CD Projekt Red also gave away FREE no DRM copies to owners of The Witcher 2 that had DRM covered copies(including steam)

STEAM also needs an 64-bit update, they're really slacking and partially responsible for holding things back for gamers at this point. this is the reason that Crysis didn't have its 64 bit .exe in the steam version, and why, despite its on steam, DCS AC-10 doesn't actually tie into steam for more than a shortcut/download. (its a pure 64 bit required title) it almost didn't make it to steam...

don't get me wrong, STEAM is awesome and offers a lot in return.
But its still a lockdown DRM that should Valve ever drop support for.. well.. the shafting would begin.

tbh i'm somewhat thankful they somehow managed to keep Crysis and Crysis 2 avail to those of us that bought it still as opposed to outright removing it entirely as would almost be expected (and happens in many other situations such as with digital downloads for music/movies when a license expires for that site to host the content)

Kon_Soul
05-20-2012, 08:07 PM
http://youtu.be/bEBbu-wkKrs

This song comes to mind.

GrimCW
05-21-2012, 06:19 AM
http://youtu.be/bEBbu-wkKrs

This song comes to mind.

been done to death sadly at this point.
really not amusing anymore.. not that it ever was TBH.