What are these games like?

[Curseman]

These games look kind of interesting to me, but I've never played an Ys game before. What are they like? How's the difficulty level? What other games are most similar to Ys?

Also, if I were to get one, what are the biggest differences between Origin and Oath in Felghana?

[electrorenan]

Believe or not, for me, its like Diablo.

...and least what comes to my mind when I first play Oath in Felghana.

But the gameplay is focused on the Hack'n'Slash part and magical weapons attacks, with no loot or other complex stats. Its very simple. Just spam the attack button, and do some combos with the magics and jumping manuvers.

The difficult varies. Very Easy is a cakewalk mostly, but the bosses can still be hard if you dont equip yourself properly. The Inferno difficult... better not mention it.

As Tom "Wyrdwad" from XSEED mention on other post:

- Felghana is slightly more open-world, with a greater emphasis on backtracking and exploration. If you like Metroidvania-style gameplay, Felghana might be a good place to start.

- On the other hand, Felghana's story is rather minimalistic, especially compared to Ys Origin's sweeping, melodramatic tale. So if you don't mind a bit more of an arcade-like linear stage structure in your gameplay (especially when it means you get a LOT more story), go for Ys Origin.

[Holy-chan]

I would personally say it's closer to the Kingdom Hearts series in terms of gameplay. Fast-paced hack n slash.

[Crosmando]

They are pretty damn hard, don't be fooled by the anime-style sprites and character art. I think playing with a gamepad is almost mandatory if you don't want to repeatedly die.

[Drbeginner]

They are pretty damn hard, don't be fooled by the anime-style sprites and character art. I think playing with a gamepad is almost mandatory if you don't want to repeatedly die.

I use only the keyboard and I rarely die. Unless I do something extremely stupid like forgeting to get air while under water.

[pzotti]

I use only the keyboard and I rarely die. Unless I do something extremely stupid like forgeting to get air while under water.

Hahahah happened to me yesterday while fighting mobs :/

[DPB]

I don't think Diablo is a good comparison. Yes, they both have lots of combat, but Diablo is very static compared to Ys. You'll be doing a lot of moving around and dodging in Ys. Personally I can't stand Diablo or its clones, but I really like Ys.

Of recent games, Bastion is fairly similar (or any action/rpg where you control the character directly), but Ys is much faster-paced.

[Wyrdwad]

In many ways, I'd say a good comparison would be something like Devil May Cry or God of War, except with RPG elements and Metroidvania-style progression.

If you're someone who cut his/her teeth on PC gaming, though, I don't know how helpful a comparison that will be. (:

-Tom

[Curseman]

Believe or not, for me, its like Diablo.

That's exactly what I didn't want to hear. What I'm hoping is that these games are far more skill-based than character level/equipment-based, and come with both a high difficulty level and good replay value.

In many ways, I'd say a good comparison would be something like Devil May Cry or God of War, except with RPG elements and Metroidvania-style progression.

If you're someone who cut his/her teeth on PC gaming, though, I don't know how helpful a comparison that will be. (:

-Tom

Yeah, that's the thing. I haven't played many console games from the most recent generations.

Is Ys mostly about learning enemy patterns like a Zelda game? Is it reflex/precision-based like a shoot em up? Does it reward memorizing combos like a fighting game?

[Wyrdwad]

Yeah, don't worry, they really are almost nothing like Diablo. As you said, they're more about skill than anything else -- and the skill level is adjustable to match your ability.

Here, this might help give you an idea. It's from an early English build of the game, and the framerate isn't optimized here, but it still shows off a good sampling of what it's like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JLv-dGHCGA

Of your last three questions, I'd say it's closest to "reflex/precision-based like a shoot-em-up." Especially when you play Ys Origin as Hugo, who controls kind of like a shmup ship in a human body. ;)

-Tom

[Ciferz]

Just wanted to say that a gamepad is NOT necessary at all. Some of the top players use keyboard, some use gamepad. They both work fine. For very advanced techs sometimes the layout of the pad is important though.

As for the gameplay: Yes, DMC and the like are probably the best comparison. The gameplay is simpler than DMC though (look at some techs and combos of the top players there, my god :s), but it's still pretty deep depending on how good you want to get at the game. There are no "combos" in the sense you mean it though. You have one physical combo and can mix it with your magic. And yes it rewards memorization and practice, though Zelda is not a good comparison at all because the combat in that series has always been absurdly easy, besides the first two games for the NES, and Ys is definitely in another category difficulty wise. This game has some RPG elements, but overall it's almost exclusively about skill.

I think normal mode is already pretty hard for a lot of people. That totally depends on what you're used to. What I can guarantee you though is that Nightmare (and Inferno for Oath in Felghana) will make you cry, even if you're a seasoned gamer.
Overall, I think everybody will find the difficulty for him/her with the different settings, and if you're a hardcore gamer that likes to spend a lot of time learning boss patterns and strats then you will enjoy Nightmare mode. Since I see you want difficulty: I personally think that Ys Origin offers one of the highest difficulties by far out of all the more recent games.

Short version: BUY BOTH GAMES! ;)

[Rebel40000]

That's exactly what I didn't want to hear. What I'm hoping is that these games are far more skill-based than character level/equipment-based, and come with both a high difficulty level and good replay value.

That is pretty much what Ys is, on the dot. A lot of people compare it to Zelda, but expect less puzzles and more fast-paced action with some of the best music I have ever heard in a video game playing the background to accompany it. They are short games in general, which also makes them very simple, so there's not a lot of depth when it comes to equipment. Everything has a purpose in the games, and is utilized at some point or another. Think of Zelda, but not a strong focus on puzzle-solving and more on fast-paced action.

The only game that isn't really like this is Ys Seven, which is fairly long and has a decent amount of customization, but it still requires a certain level of skill if you hope to take down bosses (especially on the higher levels of difficulty).

Personally, from what I've heard I think you'd like these games, Curseman. I recommend giving Oath in Felghana a spin.

[gamingafter40]

I've got a question -- I've played the classic Ys Book I & II on the TurboGrafx-16, and the combat in those games was based on "contact". That is, there was no active "attack" button -- the player just had to bounce into the monsters, trying to make glancing blows so as to deal more damage than taken.

This mechanic was tricky but workable in a 2-D overhead perspective, but how does combat work in the "new" polygon era? Is there a more active attack approach, or is it easy enough to see what's going on that it's not a problem?

[Steev_L]

I've got a question -- I've played the classic Ys Book I & II on the TurboGrafx-16, and the combat in those games was based on "contact". That is, there was no active "attack" button -- the player just had to bounce into the monsters, trying to make glancing blows so as to deal more damage than taken.

This mechanic was tricky but workable in a 2-D overhead perspective, but how does combat work in the "new" polygon era? Is there a more active attack approach, or is it easy enough to see what's going on that it's not a problem?

Well, there's an attack button in the modern Ys games, so no bumping into enemies anymore. You also have a jump button. You basically hack and slash at the enemies, but you have some special moves available as well like a downward/upward thrust and a special slash attack by doing a simple forward-then-rest and attack maneuver.

It works very well. They've used this style of combat since Ys - The Ark of Napishtim.

[PixyJunket]

It works very well. They've used this style of combat since Ys - The Ark of Napishtim.Actually, full button controlled attacking was present in Ys III and Ys V long before Ark of Napishtim, although certainly not as refined as what they created with that masterpiece.

[Steev_L]

Actually, full button controlled attacking was present in Ys III and Ys V long before Ark of Napishtim, although certainly not as refined as what they created with that masterpiece.

Yeah, I just meant this game's specific style since (I believe?) it runs on the same engine as Ark of Napishtim. Admittedly I've never played Ys V, though. It's a series that I was first exposed to on a friend's TG-CD in the early '90s, but never properly came back to it until Ark.

[eatken3]

Yeah, I just meant this game's specific style since (I believe?) it runs on the same engine as Ark of Napishtim. Admittedly I've never played Ys V, though. It's a series that I was first exposed to on a friend's TG-CD in the early '90s, but never properly came back to it until Ark.

Have you played Oath in Felghana? If so it plays like that. The Game is very oldschool Zelda-is with Jumping

[S_Jake]

@TC:

The Zelda comparison isn't a bad one, but I think Terranigma is a much better one (particularly for the latter half of the series).

Zelda's an easier reference point though, so Zelda, without the puzzles but with genuine RPG elements (i.e. a level up system).

Bosses are semi-pattern based: They all have a limited number of attack patterns, though there's no set order and reflexes will be required (rather than the "set-piece" Zelda style of boss battle). Ys also plays at a faster pace.

The reason a lot of people have been struggling to find good examples of a comparable game is that there actually aren't very many. Your best bet is to try the cheapest one you can find and if you like it, then go and explore the rest of the series. :)

[Curseman]

Sounds cool, I'll have to pick up a copy of Felghana soon.

Thanks for the replies.

[__KkK___]

Dunno maybe it's just me but...man this game is so daaamn hard , played it with a gamepad , first started onthe "normal" difficulty ( big mistake ) . Watching me fighting with a boss that has...like 500 hp (versus 100 of mine ) and dealing 5-6 damage per hit (against 20-30 for the boss) was no fun at all.
Even on the Novice difficulty...well you probably won't have any troubles with mobs but bosses , with their repetitive attack patterns (not all of them , of course ) just don't seem that much fun.
But maybe i'm not a big action rpg's fan.

P.S : and i think it's price is just too high for this kind of game (not to say about Ys Origin... )

[Wyrdwad]

How is the price too high? This isn't some doujin/indie effort or something -- it was a full-on retail release in Japan. Both Ys games were, in fact! I challenge you to find another full-length non-indie title on Steam that's as cheap as these two games.

The rest of your post I'm fine with (even if I do disagree, as I still consider Felghana to be one of my personal top ten favorite games I've ever played)... but priced too high? Such criticism cannot stand, good sir (ma'am?). ;)

-Tom

[S_Jake]

^ In addition to that, I'd also take issue with the complaints about the difficulty as from my experience, it's just about spot on. If you are dealing 5-6 damage per hit on a boss, it may be advisable to go back and gain a level before trying the boss again.

I think this actually represents a slight quibble I have with the Ys series: You can enter an area or fight a boss and find it really difficult, then go grind a couple of levels (literally 2-3) and the said area/boss becomes a joke.

[Rebel40000]

Dunno maybe it's just me but...man this game is so daaamn hard , played it with a gamepad , first started onthe "normal" difficulty ( big mistake ) . Watching me fighting with a boss that has...like 500 hp (versus 100 of mine ) and dealing 5-6 damage per hit (against 20-30 for the boss) was no fun at all.

Gain an extra level. That's all it takes to even out the playing field in these games.

[Ciferz]

Well it's not the game's fault if you under- or overlevel. Also, just use boss rush mode on the respective difficulty if you want boss fights that are balanced. The lower difficulties are DEFINITELY not as hard as some people make it sound. If you kill enemies along the way (not grinding) and get the best equip upgrading not even needed) you can pretty much tank it out with most bosses on normal and easy. If you didn't skip all of the enemies and are having trouble it's because you are underequipped. You shouldn't have much trouble then even if you're not good at this kind of game.

[__KkK___]

How is the price too high? This isn't some doujin/indie effort or something -- it was a full-on retail release in Japan. Both Ys games were, in fact! I challenge you to find another full-length non-indie title on Steam that's as cheap as these two games.

The rest of your post I'm fine with (even if I do disagree, as I still consider Felghana to be one of my personal top ten favorite games I've ever played)... but priced too high? Such criticism cannot stand, good sir (ma'am?). ;)

-Tom
Not surprised at all...I mean ,it would be weird to hear something like that:
"Yeah , i know...but since we're publishers , we will set prices as high we want to,we don't give a damn if you like it or not " from a publisher , it's your job after all :)

What i'm trying to say is that it's just a little confusing for me to see such games having the same price as AAA titles like Dead Space 2 or Crysis 2.No offense , just my personal opinion:)

[Wyrdwad]

Pfft. Dead Space 2 and Crysis 2 *wish* they were as awesome as Ys. ;)

-Tom

[PixyJunket]

Dead Space 2 or Crysis 2...were $60 when they first came out.

And probably offer less actual game content than Ys Origin.

[__KkK___]

Pfft. Dead Space 2 and Crysis 2 *wish* they were as awesome as Ys. ;)

-Tom
I wish Ys was at least 10% as good as those:D.Ah anyways ,i think there's no point in arguing about that.We all have personal definitions of good and bad (games) after all.;)

[tersalius]

how can it be that trolls end up finding every freaking place on the internet to post!!!

[S_Jake]

^ Because they have nothing else to do with their lives!

[__KkK___]

Lol , had nothing like that in mind really . It's just how conversation went,and as i've said no point in keep it going^^