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View Full Version : The molotov/incendiary and itīs problems


gir1337
07-26-2012, 01:16 AM
Just to mention a few problems with the molotov/incendiary:

1. The area it covers
- imo its a bit too much

2. The damage it does
- with armor: nearly 50 dmg if you run completely through it
- without armor: way over 50 dmg

3. The tagging it provides:
- you get slowed down to a velocity of 170-190 ( example: running with a knife = 250 and going with a knife = 130 ), keep in mind that u get slowed down even more if an enemy is hitting u as well ....

4. The vision it blocks/noise it makes
- well...less vision due to smoke
- pretty loud ....

The way it behaves atm is not viable for competitive matches, i guess thats the reason why NONE of the good teams used them at the finals ( GO4CS:GO Cups...).

They shut down complete strategies without having an option to counter it.

Ways to make it more viable:

- reduce the dmg/vision blocking/noise
- remove the tagging ( i mean.... normally every human being would run FASTER through it...not slower...)


I guess they are fine for public gaming, but competitive-wise .... no way.

Regards

musser
07-26-2012, 01:40 AM
I dont see you pointing out a problem with the molotov, all you did is list the features of the molotov.
I like them a lot, they are designed to counter strategies, which in turn opens up new strategies for the people using them.

If your stupid enough to stand in one, then yes they are going to hurt, but I fail to see how that is a "problem" ?

Warboss Choppa
07-26-2012, 01:43 AM
Area maybe cut by a fifth. Damage is fine, those numbers are over exaggerated. Well tagging doesn't bother me, it is expected. It doesn't really block anything. I can still snipe under trains if I get mollied out front of the entrance of A as a T. And the noise isn't loud, definitely not something that masks other noises.

Honestly I don't have an issue with them, I did at first but I grew to accept them. It makes for some interesting new plays and strats. It isn't like they cost $200, they cost $850 and take up 1 of 3 spaces. I rather take a smoke, decoy and flash.


If VALVe brings back true bhopping mollies won't be any threat at all. I will just jump over them or get through a door jam before it even hits the ground. Just another reason why bhopping and better movement need to return.

LuauDesign
07-26-2012, 08:27 AM
Nopne of the teams use them in GO4CSGO because they cost $850 and the other teams aren't afraid of it.

HiredGunman10
07-26-2012, 08:28 AM
Molotov is balanced

5onic
07-26-2012, 08:46 AM
Nothing is wrong with molotov.

musser
07-26-2012, 09:35 AM
Nopne of the teams use them in GO4CSGO because they cost $850 and the other teams aren't afraid of it.

its nothing to do with being afraid of it.
if you can block someones rush for a few seconds it gives you time to get in a favourable position before they can
classic example:
lets say.. dust2 as CT:
2 men check long
2 men check B
1 stays mid to snipe/wait for the call

and lets say...Ts go short:
by the time the 2 men at long have checked the doors and come back to A to look at short the Ts are already up the steps and able to pick the guys falling back from long
if the guy at CT spawn or one of the guys coming back from long molotov's short, it delays the Ts push, allowing the CTs to get up in to A and get in a nice position to kill the Ts as they come up the steps/round the corner

basically the use of one grenade changes the whole advantage from T favoured in that position to CT favoured

that is why I like them, they add the ability to change the tactics in use, instead of just thinking "ah balls we were out of position, now theres only like a 10% chance of us winning"
you can force the other team out of their position and increase your chance of winning an unfavourable situation

LuauDesign
07-26-2012, 09:43 AM
its nothing to do with being afraid of it.
if you can block someones rush for a few seconds...

You only block someone's execution for a few second (it's 7) if they're afraid of it. Otherwise they just rush through.

0neder
07-26-2012, 09:54 AM
Ha! if anything it should get a price reduction. They reduced the duration to be almost meaningless. I'd rather it at least lasted more than 5 seconds.

PsychoLuis
07-26-2012, 10:45 AM
the only problem I find with it it's the fps hit, it's pretty heavy.

helix
07-26-2012, 11:11 AM
Honestly this is a non issue its been nerfed enough with the throw distance making it almost useless. Since the 3 grenade limit came out I haven't encountered it as much. It costs $850 and I'd rather use the slots for other grenades. CS:GO has barely even been played competitively and people cry about molotov imbalance already. When this game dies it will be because the community killed it, which is a shame.

sparts935
07-26-2012, 11:15 AM
Mollies are fine. Between high cost and only be able to carry one, and only lasting about 10 seconds, they are not over powered.

omiclix
07-26-2012, 01:23 PM
It is in all the popular tournaments now and has not caused any problems. You have no basis for your arguement.

cortez09
07-26-2012, 01:52 PM
Molotovs are area denial tools, expensive area denial tools.You need several reasons to make a player think twice before running trough the fire

musser
07-26-2012, 01:52 PM
You only block someone's execution for a few second (it's 7) if they're afraid of it. Otherwise they just rush through.

if you think 5-7 seconds is meaningless in CS then you really should not be commenting
and who in their right mind is going to rush through it and take 50+ damage, that just gives the person throwing it even more of an advantage, not only have you slowed them down but they are not on under half health

LuauDesign
07-26-2012, 02:23 PM
if you think 5-7 seconds is meaningless in CS then you really should not be commenting
and who in their right mind is going to rush through it and take 50+ damage, that just gives the person throwing it even more of an advantage, not only have you slowed them down but they are not on under half health

The whole molotov timer is 7 seconds, which is not enough for a full rotation on most maps, and the maps it is enough, T's can switch targets around just as fast (de_nuke), so you'll still be against 2-3 defenders after those 7 seconds. Besides throwing a molly and calling a full rotate is far from a smart thing to do because you probably didn't see the entire T team.

It's only a full 7-seconds delay if the T's stop right as the incendiary hits the floor, and only start rushing again after the last flame extinguishes. If you see the molly coming you can just rush around it before the flames spread to block all the path (the first wave of flames is based on the hit direction and the second once comes half a second later, if there's space for a 3rd one it comes 2 seconds after the first hit, and each individual flame extinguishes in 5 seconds or when the total 7 seconds for the molotov ends, whichever comes first), same can be done when it's closer to end. The fire takes 40hp/second, it's easy to run through the spot with less flames and take just 15 or nothing at all. If you even saw a molly before it's easy to tell how it behaves.

What you can't do is choose the worst possible path through the molotov, or simply stand on it, that's why molotovs are great against defenders and awpers, to force them to leave cover or fallback to less advantage spots, and not much against rushes unless you stack 2 incendiaries to make a column/row.

You can get a flashbang and a smoke for less than a molly and do far more harm to the enemy team.

flatspottin
07-26-2012, 03:05 PM
I'd say they are fine to underpowered. I've never seen people have real issues with them playing tons of ESEA or pubs... if oyu die in a molly you're pretty much a tard or got unlucky. Minimal damage, slow throw velocity, short burn time....

UNREA1
07-26-2012, 03:53 PM
So you make a complete list of advantages of using it saying it's OP, and then you say that's the reason why people didn't use it in w/e tournament? That makes no sence. If it's OP I'd take advantage of it, no?