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HolmWrecker
12-17-2007, 04:23 PM
It would appear that the surround sound is diabled in all of the O/B games.
Any others experienced this? No matter the settings, none of them will run in Dolby or DTS for me.:confused:
Thanks!

Ch3rokee
12-18-2007, 01:37 AM
I haven't tried it yet, but I have seen some people complaining in the Gamespot forums that the sound on the Orange Box for PS3 it's only Dolby Prologic 2 (basicaly stereo, really disappointing after hearing the great surround available on PC).

Jay Stelly
12-25-2007, 08:58 PM
The PS3 version has full surround sound but only over an HDMI connection.
We're working on getting the optical cable support into an update. I'll post when I have details.

Ch3rokee
12-27-2007, 04:19 PM
Thank you for the clarification Jay Stelly, that makes sense because HDMI can carry uncompressed sound and to get 5.1 from an optical cable it has to be encoded in Dolby Digital or DTS. Anyway, I, as many, would really apreciate that update because we have old amplifiers without HDMI inputs.

jackdoe
12-29-2007, 03:34 PM
The PS3 version has full surround sound but only over an HDMI connection.
We're working on getting the optical cable support into an update. I'll post when I have details.

So what else would be included in this update? Maybe something to improve loading times? Something to stabilize TF2 gameplay? Maybe the new TF2 material that has yet to come to the 360 version? Something to stabilize the frame rate? Or is it just an update for this sound issue?

Seion
01-02-2008, 02:53 PM
The PS3 version has full surround sound but only over an HDMI connection.
We're working on getting the optical cable support into an update. I'll post when I have details.

I have my PS3 connected to my surround sound system via HDMI and I'm not getting surround sound with The Orange Box. My system is capable of receiving DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1 over HDMI.

All of the games in The Orange Box are only outputting PCM 2.1 channel audio.

I double checked with my copy of Uncharted to make sure it's not just my system, and confirmed Uncharted is correctly outputting DTS audio over HDMI. This means The Orange Box is not outputting surround sound as it should.

RojBlake
01-02-2008, 05:07 PM
I have the same issue with audio over HDMI. All my other games work fine except TOB. Basically if the person talking is outside of your field of view you can't hear them - I've had to enable subtiltles to make sure I don't miss anyhting and the ability position activity by sound is gone.

rjspring
01-02-2008, 05:20 PM
anybody know if this issue is also on the X-Box 360?

leukoplast
01-02-2008, 05:27 PM
Surround sound works fine over HDMI. Problem is, the ones having this problem over HDMI need to set their audio output to Linear PCM. Because my assumption is that this game is outputting uncompressed PCM audio over 5.1 channels. And the PS3 is incapable of outputting this over bitstream HDMI.

Same goes with Tos link (aka optical). Optical is only able to output 2.1 channels of uncompressed audio(or 5.1 of bitstream non-uncompressed), it cannot send out anything more due to its lower bandwidth speed limits.

So with that said, if you have surround problems via HDMI, set your HDMI audio output to LPCM. As thats what mine is set to, and I get 5.1 of surround sound.

RojBlake
01-02-2008, 06:08 PM
Hi Leukoplast. How do you set the game to output LPCM, the only place I can see those options are in the PS3 audio config which is set to HDMI/Auto - and all the 5.1 PCM options are already enabled. All other games, RFOM, TC4, etc.. are fine.

leukoplast
01-02-2008, 06:47 PM
Hi Leukoplast. How do you set the game to output LPCM, the only place I can see those options are in the PS3 audio config which is set to HDMI/Auto - and all the 5.1 PCM options are already enabled. All other games, RFOM, TC4, etc.. are fine.

Yeah, most other games (probably all except this one, lol) have other types of surround sound (IE bitstream compressed 5.1 and up) so you shouldn't have any problems with them.

To set for HDMI output to LPCM do this.

Settings > BD/DVD Settings > BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI): Linear PCM

Then basically like what you did (which it may automatically do anyway once LPCM is selected) is go and check every single audio option box. When you do that, it tells the PS3 what to decode.

RojBlake
01-02-2008, 07:18 PM
Thanks Leukoplast, I checked the BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI) and it's already set to Linear PCM? The receiver displays that the incoming signal is PCM but only 2.1 PL. There are some background effects on the satellite speakers, but pretty quiet and no dialogue.

leukoplast
01-02-2008, 07:52 PM
Thanks Leukoplast, I checked the BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI) and it's already set to Linear PCM? The receiver displays that the incoming signal is PCM but only 2.1 PL. There are some background effects on the satellite speakers, but pretty quiet and no dialogue.

Hmm. Well, lets start with the most obvious concern. Is your receiver capable of handling uncompressed 5.1 LPCM audio via HDMI?

If so, then go into the Audio options and make sure to check every single box you can. (should be able to check them all)

Also what receiver is it? Cause I have a Onkyo TX-SR605, and for me when I'm in LPCM it automatically goes into a 'Multi-channel' mode. Where I cannot change the sound fields on the receiver...its basically not modifying the signal at all coming from the PS3.

So get back to me with this info, and we'll go from there. Its possible you may have to do some modifying on the receivers end...but for now leave it be.

RojBlake
01-02-2008, 08:20 PM
The receiver is a Yamaha HTR-5990 7.1 THX. The only 5.1 LPCM option not already set from auto setup was 176.4Khz which I enabled but still no dialogue on the satellites :(. No matter which program mode I tried to put the receiver into it only shows the PL & PCM signals. Like I said other games and BD movies play 5.1 fine, just seems to be an issue with TOB. To see the effect, try facing somebody that's talking, but standing a few feet away, then turn 180' around - the effect we're seeing is that you can't hear what they are saying.

leukoplast
01-02-2008, 08:52 PM
The receiver is a Yamaha HTR-5990 7.1 THX. The only 5.1 LPCM option not already set from auto setup was 176.4Khz which I enabled but still no dialogue on the satellites :(. No matter which program mode I tried to put the receiver into it only shows the PL & PCM signals. Like I said other games and BD movies play 5.1 fine, just seems to be an issue with TOB. To see the effect, try facing somebody that's talking, but standing a few feet away, then turn 180' around - the effect we're seeing is that you can't hear what they are saying.

So, you have heard actual 5.1 LPCM uncompressed audio from a Blu-Ray then?

Cause after doing a little research, all HDMI versions are capable of carrying a LPCM uncompressed signal of up to 8 channels. So thats not the issue. Maybe this is just a problem with your receiver.

Cause I know what your talking about with people talking in game, then going in a circle. It works flawlessly on my system. If they are talking, I turn around, and now the talking comes out of my back speakers in relation to their position.

Do you currently have a 5.1 setup rather than 7.1? Cause I am using 5.1 ATM, and I actually had to go in my receivers settings and specifically turn off the speakers I wasn't using(turned off back, and left the sides on). Cause for some reason, it was still sending a surround signal and taking away that sound from the speakers that were actually in use.

For instance. Lets say I still had them on, well if I turned around in game the sound/vocals wouldn't be coming from anywhere as the receiver is sending the signal to speakers that aren't even there. And the ones that should be doing the work weren't getting anything.

Seion
01-02-2008, 09:12 PM
Surround sound works fine over HDMI. Problem is, the ones having this problem over HDMI need to set their audio output to Linear PCM. Because my assumption is that this game is outputting uncompressed PCM audio over 5.1 channels. And the PS3 is incapable of outputting this over bitstream HDMI.

Same goes with Tos link (aka optical). Optical is only able to output 2.1 channels of uncompressed audio(or 5.1 of bitstream non-uncompressed), it cannot send out anything more due to its lower bandwidth speed limits.

So with that said, if you have surround problems via HDMI, set your HDMI audio output to LPCM. As thats what mine is set to, and I get 5.1 of surround sound.

Wrong. Your solution does not work as my system is not capable of receiving 5.1 LPCM. Like I mentioned, for 5.1 sound it is only capable of receiving DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1.

Which leads back to The Orange Box's inability to output DTS or DD 5.1 over HDMI.

leukoplast
01-02-2008, 09:20 PM
Wrong. Your solution does not work as my system is not capable of receiving 5.1 LPCM. Like I mentioned, for 5.1 sound it is only capable of receiving DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1.

Which leads back to The Orange Box's inability to output DTS or DD 5.1 over HDMI.

Well, that sucks for you. Maybe you should get a receiver that can actually use HDMI's full audio options? And seeing as all version of HDMI can carry up to 8 channels of LPCM uncompressed audio...you must have one ancient receiver.

Cause 5.1 on this game is pretty sweet, and I'm lovin it.

Seion
01-03-2008, 04:49 AM
Well, that sucks for you. Maybe you should get a receiver that can actually use HDMI's full audio options? And seeing as all version of HDMI can carry up to 8 channels of LPCM uncompressed audio...you must have one ancient receiver.

Cause 5.1 on this game is pretty sweet, and I'm lovin it.

That's all well and good that you're able to get 5.1 LPCM on your setup, but lording over other people contributes nothing to the actual discussion and merely serves to devolve this thread into the cliché of all Internet forum talk.

The issue at hand is bringing The Orange Box on PS3's surround sound features up to parity with the other two versions, which can output DD 5.1 sound. The valve support personnel claimed surround sound through HDMI, and obviously this is only true using LPCM, not Dolby Digital 5.1 like the other two versions can. I was merely bringing this to their attention in the hopes that they will fix this at the same time they fix the TosLink issue.

Can we please focus on troubleshooting, issues, and bringing the PS3 version of The Orange Box up to parity with the other versions instead of holding yet another Internet [color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color] contest?

leukoplast
01-03-2008, 06:59 AM
That's all well and good that you're able to get 5.1 LPCM on your setup, but lording over other people contributes nothing to the actual discussion and merely serves to devolve this thread into the cliché of all Internet forum talk.

The issue at hand is bringing The Orange Box on PS3's surround sound features up to parity with the other two versions, which can output DD 5.1 sound. The valve support personnel claimed surround sound through HDMI, and obviously this is only true using LPCM, not Dolby Digital 5.1 like the other two versions can. I was merely bringing this to their attention in the hopes that they will fix this at the same time they fix the TosLink issue.

Can we please focus on troubleshooting, issues, and bringing the PS3 version of The Orange Box up to parity with the other versions instead of holding yet another Internet [color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color] contest?


If you can hold your load in for a few more seconds, you will realize that I was trying to HELP, not gloat about my ability to hear the surround sound (although I did this to you because you were being a smart-[color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color].)

Read through the thread a little before making ridiculous statements. Fact is, if people have HDMI receiver, and a capable receiver, its possible to get surround sound. And thats what I was trying to tell everybody else. Just because you have a weak setup doesn't mean others can't benefit from the surround sound on this game.

Is that a little more clear now? I hope so, cause it doesn't get much simpler.

rjspring
01-03-2008, 08:52 AM
That's all well and good that you're able to get 5.1 LPCM on your setup, but lording over other people contributes nothing to the actual discussion and merely serves to devolve this thread into the cliché of all Internet forum talk.

The issue at hand is bringing The Orange Box on PS3's surround sound features up to parity with the other two versions, which can output DD 5.1 sound. The valve support personnel claimed surround sound through HDMI, and obviously this is only true using LPCM, not Dolby Digital 5.1 like the other two versions can. I was merely bringing this to their attention in the hopes that they will fix this at the same time they fix the TosLink issue.

Can we please focus on troubleshooting, issues, and bringing the PS3 version of The Orange Box up to parity with the other versions instead of holding yet another Internet [color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color] contest?

I take it from this post that the XBox 360 version does not have the same audio issue for outputting from optical?

Seion
01-03-2008, 09:56 AM
I take it from this post that the XBox 360 version does not have the same audio issue for outputting from optical?

Correct. The Xbox 360 version is able to output DD 5.1 surround sound via optical output.

RojBlake
01-03-2008, 02:08 PM
I tried playing around with the settings on the receiver and the PS3 but am still no closer. My understadning (limited) is that when the PS3 talks to the reciever over HDMI they negoiate what protocols both systems are able to support, so mine shows DD5.1, DTS, LPCM 2ch and 5.1 -all freq's - but 7.1 is not enabled - it seems my unit only supports 7.1 using PLII.
I tried manually turning off all the protocols but still no use and leaving just DD5.1 and LPCM 2ch 44Khz and 48Khz as these can't be trurned off.
Playing BS-A51 demo shows as MPCM 5.1, as does a BD movie when the amp is in standard decode mode and the amp info page shows the input signal as PCM 48KHz 3/2/0.1 but when TOB is playing the info page shows PCM 48KHz --/--/-- i.e. it can't see the channel flags. Is there any input from Valve on this issue?

NeoandGeo
02-04-2008, 08:47 AM
The PS3 version has full surround sound but only over an HDMI connection.
We're working on getting the optical cable support into an update. I'll post when I have details.

Any details?

MooseEggs
02-05-2008, 11:12 AM
I have the same issue with audio over HDMI. All my other games work fine except TOB. Basically if the person talking is outside of your field of view you can't hear them - I've had to enable subtiltles to make sure I don't miss anyhting and the ability position activity by sound is gone.

FullSpecWarrior
02-15-2008, 06:56 AM
I wouldn't hold your breath for a patch. Recent comments from Valve follow a trend:

"We don't know what EA's plans are for PS3 Orange Box"

It's EA's problem and I don't see them doing anything. Valve don't care. If they did then they'd have done the PS3 version themselves or at least farmed it out to someone with more credibility than EA London.

robertcapa
02-17-2008, 12:07 PM
Optical is only able to output 2.1 channels of uncompressed audio(or 5.1 of bitstream non-uncompressed), it cannot send out anything more due to its lower bandwidth speed limits.

Please do not make me scream. Linear PCM, which was invented circa 1940 to push digital signals over old analog infrastructure requires *a lot* more space than any of the compressed digital formats but it requires quite a bit less bandwidth. Fiber optic can carry 100 Mbps across town, or across the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean, but it can't carry <60 Mbps (<60 Mbps/channel x 5+1 discrete channels) six feet from your PS3 to your A/V receiver? Explain that to me.

Support for uncompressed digital audio is a nice selling point for Blu-ray, but either HD consumer video disc format has plenty of storage for a very high bit-rate 5.1 compressed format which is indistinguishable from Linear PCM. I'm sorry, to qualify: A machine can tell the difference, you can't. If you think you can hear the difference it's because you're comparing a Linear PCM BD movie audio track with a DTS or Dolby D BD movie audio production in which the audio has been stepped on all to hell with compression. I'm a Blu-ray supporter -- was, I guess, now, as word out of Japan is Toshiba has shut down the lines on HD DVD devices -- but I will readily admit, played back on comparable HD DVD vs. BD A/V systems, a good A/V production released on HD DVD looks and sounds just as good any on BD. And vice versa. It's all in the production and the playback/display equipment.

HDMI is nice because it's self-configuring with the option for manual configuration. Swap out your component video for HDMI, and woah!, boy does that look damn better right away. But fiddle with your HDTV's component configuration and you can get a component-connected image to look just as nice that HDMI connection. Just takes work. HDMI is good because it's convenient to set up, and also carries audio and video on one cable.

I'm quitting my j-o-b soon, so I will have to return my Xbox 360 press unit; I own my own PS3, and I'm not replacing the X360. OB was one of the games I had in a press copy for X360 that I wanted to replace with a PS3 version, so I went and bought a new copy for PS3. Nowhere on the box does it mention 5.1 sound of any kind. I haven't tested various configurations, but I like my 5.1 receiver with TOSLink just fine and will not be upgrading to an HDMI A/V receiver.

This is no technological mystery. It's a bug or an intentional or unintentional oversight. HDMI or optical audio is all controlled on the PS3 at the OS layer. Developers don't touch it, or shouldn't touch it. They either did not include a proper 5.1 production on the disc -- in which case, do not expect they can fix that with a patch. Or they smoofed it up and can't get the 5.1 out the PS3 optical because they don't know what they're doing and goofed the hook from the game into PS3's audio management stuff in the OS. They can patch that.

In the meantime, you can get a good A/V receiver with optical and a smashing DSP inbuilt that will take 2.1 audio and interpolate 5.1 out of it. You may already have one and just haven't turned the DSP-based 2.1->5.1 configuration. You may have one that thinks it should be getting DTS or Dolby D from the PS3, so locks the DSP -- but it shouldn't; if it's not getting a discrete channel encode, you should have control over the DSP. But in that case, use the SCART -- analog -- and it will let you flip on the DSP interpolation.

Games, and hardly all of them even today, have only recently taken much advantage of five discrete channels. And for years and years with movies, a good analog-connected ProLogic encode interpolated to 5.1 will give you that "total surround" feeling with the right PL (now PLII) decoder.

Turn on your 5.1 interpolation. You won't even notice over a middling-quality for-reals discrete 5.1 DTS encode. It's only bugging you because the little "D" isn't lighted up on your A/V receiver.

fnz
02-18-2008, 12:18 AM
Could valve give us any indication of when we can expect some patch to fix dolby digital? Just got the game and I want to know if I can wait for the patch before starting the game.

robertcapa
02-18-2008, 04:03 AM
Could valve give us any indication of when we can expect some patch to fix dolby digital? Just got the game and I want to know if I can wait for the patch before starting the game.

See above. Put disc in PS3. Select surround processing of your choice. Experience 2.1 interpolated to 5.1 as good as 95% of discrete channel Dolby D game audio productions available for any system. Play game. Enjoy.

p.s. Remember when Trent Reznor did all the audio effects for Quake? Now why does that *still* sound so good over two channels with Creative's cheap, low-end EAX -- or whatever tech they were using back then -- processing? Put a piece of black electric tape over where the "D" lights up on the display of your A/V receiver. You won't notice.

p.p.s. If you have access to a Wii, go rent Resident Evil 4 for Wii. Woah, now that is some *surround* sound. That's 2.1 PLII carried via two-channel analog RCA connections and post-processed to 5.1 by the A/V receiver.

p.p.p.s. I'm not minimizing the poor port skills of EA London. They shouldn't have screwed up that which based on properly using the PS3 development environment is impossible to screw up. But you're not going to hear the difference. I swear. Really. It's all in your head. It's like the "equalizer" on an iPod. It doesn't really improve the sound.

fnz
02-18-2008, 04:39 AM
See above. Put disc in PS3. Select surround processing of your choice. Experience 2.1 interpolated to 5.1 as good as 95% of discrete channel Dolby D game audio productions available for any system. Play game. Enjoy.


Ok ok, sounds like a real workaround, but 2 questions!

1. How do I select that sound processing? I don't recall getting that option while inserting the gamedisc... Is it somewhere in the PS3-settings-menu?
2. When I set it to "2.1 interpolated to 5.1", does it send a Dolby Digital/DTS signal to my amplifier?

robertcapa
02-18-2008, 05:16 AM
Hold the phone! I finally got so tired of this discussion, I popped the disc in my PS3, even though I should be working. What is wrong with you people? Really, what is wrong with you? Orange Box PS3 just doesn't have a Dolby D 5.1 audio production on it. It's got DTS 5.1 over PCM which OUTPUTS JUST FINE OVER TOSLINK/OPTICAL!!!!!! That's like *better*. Both are solid discrete-channel 5.1 audio formats, but Dolby D is locked down so you can't post-process if you'd like, unless you have a separate post-processing unit that takes each decoded channel output by receiver and separately processes it -- and that's some serious cash. Like, say, your receiver has a great cinema or hall DSP mode that adds a nice theater resonance to movie sound. DTS, you get 5.1 discrete digital channels and you can post-process if you wish. Or not. Up to you. Dolby D, you can't. (Some people think Dolby D is better because it's pretty easy in production to make very distinct channel separations in Dolby D. Like the guy talking to your left, his voice only comes out of the left surround speaker, it's not kind of spread over the left front and left surround. It's very "digital-surround-sound-esque" but it's really a hack to make you believe they did the tops in surround sound production; it's not very natural, because it's not really how we hear sound, unless some guy is shouting into your ear from two inches away.)

Here's the deal: If your A/V receiver came for $50 from Wal-Mart, in a big box along with five tiny little surround, ahem, speakers and , ahem, a subwoofer, you are not going to get PCM support, very probably no DTS support, even though there will be one or two lousy TOSLink inputs and usually a coax digital. On the other hand if you paid like $150 -- well, on sale, but you can find them -- for a decent but not wall-crumbling-powered Onkyo or Denon or whatever A/V receiver, your Orange Box PS3, DTS PCM over optical, no problemo, okay fine.

If you have the former, I can't help you. What you have actually really does sound okay for movies and games, about good as these Samsung, or whatever, everything-in-the-box, DVD-all-in-one kits they sell in home electronics stores for ten times the price. But DTS via PCM, no. You make concessions for the ultra-low price.

If you already have the latter grade A/V receiver and you can't get 5.1 surround over optical, please go read your PS3 manual. You're misconfigured.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be a jerk. If anyone wants to replace the former with an inexpensive but good A/V system, or properly configure the latter, you're welcome to e-mail me at capasdilemma@hotmail.com.

But the reason there is no patch to fix Dolby D on Orange Box PS3 is because *there is no Dolby D* audio production available for OB PS3. EA London did fine with the audio. The reason OB X360 has Dolby D is because Microsoft requires it because X360, as far as I know, doesn't support DTS and it certainly doesn't support pulse code modulation. So that's the only way to guarantee a digital discrete-channel 5.1 audio experience for people who have an X360 and equipment that supports digital surround: require Dolby D. For the PS3 version, why pay the whopping Dolby licensing fee when it's not necessary?

Everyone keeps writing, "When will you patch OB PS3 to support surround sound over optical?" This is probably confusing the hell out of Valve and EA London. It does support 5.1 digital surround sound over optical. They just didn't do Dolby D. They never will. Nobody wants to have to host an entire Dolby D production for download, and you don't want to have to store it on your PS3 hard drive. (Unless there's some software that can do Dolby D on the fly, and I really, really think not; it would be a mediocre simulation at best, anyway.) Most PS3 games do support Dolby D, but they either started from scratch with the audio, or they ported over from X360 and the Dolby D production already existed as a resource. HL2 was a PC game without Dolby D. There was no pre-existing Dolby D audio production for it. OB had a concurrent dev cycle for a concurrent 360/PS3/PC release. EA London got a bit behind, but the plan was concurrent release, so the Dolby D production for X360 was not available to them as an existing, done, packaged resource. So they just did DTS. Since it's for PS3, this is fine. And my apologies to EA London: I don't see any problem with your ability to create content for PS3.

You can go into Wal-Mart and put together a monster good home A/V system, sure. But you can't just walk in and buy the big, cheap box. You can get shafted this way even buying through the higher-end home electronics chains, but it's just not as likely because they tend not to carry the cheaper equipment without complete multi-format support.

Anyway, I officially release the OB PS3 digital discrete channel surround sound patch. Except it's always been there, so there's no patch. It's a patch-free patch.

robertcapa
02-18-2008, 05:44 AM
Ok ok, sounds like a real workaround, but 2 questions!

1. How do I select that sound processing? I don't recall getting that option while inserting the gamedisc... Is it somewhere in the PS3-settings-menu?
2. When I set it to "2.1 interpolated to 5.1", does it send a Dolby Digital/DTS signal to my amplifier?

fnz, read my post below. You don't need to do this. OB already has 5.1 digital surround. Just patch up via optical and select optical output from your PS3, make sure the default PCM rates are still selected, don't uncheck them, you're good to go. Don't select any of the the higher PCM rates unless you know for a fact your receiver supports them as it's possible to fry some receiver circuitry with unsupported PCM rates.

Anyway, if it really were only 2.1 sound, you'd select the DSP interpolation or simulation or whatever you want to call it on you receiver, not on the PS3. But as it stands, there's no workaround needed. People need a receiver that supports PCM over optical. Most decent and reasonably inexpensive ones do. There's a chance that some of this garbage they sell at Circuit City or whatever will support PCM over HDMI but no over TOSLink/optical. I don't know why. It's stupid, and it can't save hardly anything in manufacturing cost. They would only drop support for PCM in favor of HDMI to get you to pay a couple hundred more for a receiver that supports PCM over HDMI and TOSLink/optical. It would be, "Screw you, audio consumer."

Anyway, audio over HDMI is a waste, anyway. Solution: buy an A/V receiver without HDMI-processing inputs, but with TOSLink/optical inputs, and they'll have to support PCM over TOSLink on that model. If you need the HDMI switching features, buy a separate HDMI switch. Oppo makes a great one for $100. Or buy a receiver with TOSLink inputs and HDMI pass-through but no HDMI audio processing -- which is just an inbuilt HDMI switch.

I like HDMI for video. It's convenient. But think of it this way: you had SCSI-2 and then you had USB 1.1. Practical maximum data transfer rates for SCSI-2 and USB 1.1 were about the same. But USB 1.1 was so much easier to use as an external peripheral interconnect.

HDMI offers these advantages:

For the consumer -- for HD video, auto-configuration; you can get same results from component connections but you have to fool with the HD display's configuration. VGA, besides setting the resolution, you get pretty close without messing anything. DVI is so damn close it's nearly indistinguishable. You have DVI and want that HDMI look? Turn up the brightness on your HD display device.

For the content-provider -- inbuilt copy protection in the form of HDCP, which has not yet been used. With the format war going on, nobody wanted to make things more complicated for the content consumer. Now that it looks as have HD DVD is dead -- Toshiba has apparently quit making HD DVD devices and will only sell warehoused and in-channel stock -- don't be surprised to see HDCP turn up on some Blu-ray discs within 18 months or so.

In audio, the only HDMI advantage is again convenience. It carries both audio and video on the same cable. For people who don't care about 5.1 discrete channel digital audio, this is handy. Just plug it into your 2 or 3 speaker HDTV and let it run it's fake or real digital surround sound processor, which will in most cases be pretty good in processing, but will actually suck because all the speakers will be in front of you, on the HDTV.

For people with a good separate digital A/V receiver HDMI is just unnecessary and an excuse to make you buy a new HDMI-capable receiver and a couple or three $100 HDMI cables. Because the quality of the cable matters. Those contacts, very important. Special gold contacts for that perfect connection. Yeah, where do you live? If there are enough corrosives in your local air to require special gold alloy HDMI cable contacts, worry about your lungs, not your A/V connections.

fnz
02-18-2008, 05:55 AM
fnz, read my post below. You don't need to do this. OB already has 5.1 digital surround. Just patch up via optical and select optical output from your PS3, make sure the default PCM rates are still selected, don't uncheck them, you're good to go. Don't select any of the the higher PCM rates unless you know for a fact your receiver supports them as it's possible to fry some receiver circuitry with unsupported PCM rates.

Thanks robertcapa, now I have a clue where to look for my audio settings. I will try it out as soon I get home. I'll post here when I get a sollution.

MooseEggs
02-19-2008, 05:26 AM
The surround doesn't work via optical no matter what settings you try.

fnz
02-19-2008, 05:39 AM
I have the same problem. My speakerset (Logitech Z5450) is not compatible with 6 channel LPCM signals... So, i get 2 channels and my speakerset makes it Dolby Problogic II. It't not really bad sound, but 6 channals are better with surround sound...

robertcapa
02-19-2008, 09:17 AM
The surround doesn't work via optical no matter what settings you try.

Optical works fine for 5.1 surround.

It's PCM DTS, non-matrixed, uncompressed, 6 channels. Your receiver has to support both DTS and PCM, otherwise no go. Even over HDMI it won't work if the foregoing criteria are not met, it's just that no one makes receivers that process audio via HDMI inputs but don't support DTS and PCM.

Someone from Valve, or an audio engineer, could chime in on this point, but as far as I know there is no good way to matrix DTS on-the-fly via PS3 game software. It would require a whole new matrixed DTS audio production, meaning new game discs. So there's really no way to patch it.

farlander
07-26-2008, 04:05 PM
Optical works fine for 5.1 surround.

It's PCM DTS, non-matrixed, uncompressed, 6 channels. Your receiver has to support both DTS and PCM, otherwise no go. Even over HDMI it won't work if the foregoing criteria are not met, it's just that no one makes receivers that process audio via HDMI inputs but don't support DTS and PCM.

Someone from Valve, or an audio engineer, could chime in on this point, but as far as I know there is no good way to matrix DTS on-the-fly via PS3 game software. It would require a whole new matrixed DTS audio production, meaning new game discs. So there's really no way to patch it.

This is all, of course, is just a load of BS. There is no such thing as "PCM DTS, non-matrixed, uncompressed, 6 channel". DTS is a compressed, lossy algorithm. There is, of course, DTS-HD MA, which is _uncompressed_, but it _can not_ be transferred via optical connection, it can only be transferred via HDMI.

Once again: there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to get 5.1 sound with 6 distinct sound channels via optical connection without Dolby Digital or DTS (both using lossy compression)! You can _emulate_ surround sound using only 2 channels, in which case the sound would have to be processed by Dolby ProLogic engine both on the PS3 and your audio receiver ends. Your receiver will then have to decode the ProLogic processed sound, and you will get three distinct sound sources: left, right and behind you. ProLogic II can, sorta, create a sense of "behind you left" and "behind you right", but it's not very distinct. And both, ProLogic and ProLogic II have the ability to also simulate the LFE.

Now, PS3, so far as I know, does not support ProLogic, nor ProLogic II sound encoding, so the only way for you to get more or less "surround" sound is to use one of your receiver's surround simulation engines - "Matrix", "Neo" or whatever the hell they might have called it in your particular receiver. In any event, that will not be the true surround, it will only be simulation, which would NOT sound like it was originally intended in the game.

There is absolutely no excuse for Valve to release The Orange Box on the PS3 _without_ support for the surround sound. As far as I know (and in this case I might be mistaken), PS3 supports hardware AC3 and DTS encoding, specifically for the optical connection, just like XBOX-360 does. I'm not aware of any other games anywhere - on PS3 or XBOX-360 - that do not support surround sound, so Valve must have tried really hard NOT to make the surround sound on the PS3.

Also, the latest update (v1.10) does not fix the issue - still Stereo only. What a shame...