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View Full Version : id titles on steam need some polishing, heavy cleaning up, and why not a source port!


Tibo
09-10-2008, 05:16 PM
I think the id catalog was completely rushed!
Maybe was it just to get announced it in time for quakecon 2007 I don't know, but it definitely needs some fixes and some heavy cleaning up, and lacks important content.

The cleaning up:
There's lots of useless and annoying crap remaining like testapp.exe, testapp.bat, dosbox uninstaller, install logs, url shortcuts linking to dead sites, update tools, install scripts, empty files etc. Hell of a mess!
Looking in the heretic or hexen directories you'll find shortcuts which links to "H:\Home\Grayson Wendell\Steam\Heretic (or hexen)" , he's an id software programmer. You'll find tons of things like that. Personally it gave me a bad feeling of who id are and how they work...

Fixes:
So id did the job. Valve can maybe not do anything inside 3rd party files but there's stuff valve can fix, and quite fast, cause they also made errors.
Some games can't use overlay. Games sold on steam not supporting overlay, that's a disappointment when you think about it!
Those games are: Quake 3: team arena, quake 2: ground zero and quake 2: the reckoning.
You could think it's because they're expansions and don't launch with an .exe but doom 3 resurrection of evil and both quake 1 expansions have overlay working.
Why? It's simple. They work because steam doesn't use the bat files to launch them.
The steam command used to launch RoE is "Doom3.exe +set fs_game d3xp".
So overlay directly links to doom3.exe and not a .bat file (which says the same thing: "Doom3.exe +set fs_game d3xp").
For example, add "+set game rogue" to quake II launch options and TADA you get ground zero with overlay working. Same for quake 3 Team Arena, add "+set fs_game missionpack" and you'll get Team Arena.
Games not working with overlay because they link to bat files is such a shame! An error that, in my opinion, could be fixed by valve in a matter of minutes!
Launching games emulated by doxbox also isn't logic! The 2K guy who was responsible to prepare xcom games work on dosbox did a good job! He even said it he's not really a programmer. So skills aren't really necessary. He just did the logic things: asked community, dosbox programmers for help, took time etc. That's how it should of been done by id. Honestly when I first launched Doom it was so laggy I couldn't play it!
I had to go through the process of finding a source ports, which took me time. Somehow I don't think that's logic when you buy a product. So id, why not add links to the most famous source port instead of dead links?
Steam launches dosbox.exe instead of a bat file on XCOM games, so if you edit your config file and set your render to openGL you'll get overlay working, slow, but working, and thing is, overlay might get improved on dosbox in the futur, that's why it's still important to fix this.

Missing content:
Doom 3 dedicated server doesn't even work. The doom3ded.exe is missing!
But there's actually a way to get it, get ready, it's really stupid. Right click your game, set the language on french, those new files will download, and so will the doom3ded.exe! Don't ask me why I have no idea, must be another human error.
Unfortunatly if you change back ton english steam will reverify and erase it hahaha!
That fix could be done very easily by id. And valve should move doom 3 ds to tools section.
Doom 3 RoE is missing all it's language files too. Nice.
I've also read that some Quake games are completely missing their music! On that part community is always great help. I saw a couple weeks ago WSGF providing a patch for those unifinished id games on steam: check it out here (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Id_Super_Pack#Music_patch_2).

id software, I'm sure you guys talented as you are could fix all this in a little day or two. As fo valve, minutes would be enough.


EDIT: Cleaned it up a bit, gave more info, changed including a source port to including links to famous source ports.

glutamate
09-10-2008, 08:56 PM
It would be nice.

fatalfourway
09-11-2008, 04:03 AM
There's LOTS of useless and anoying crap remaining like testapp.exe, testapp.bat, dosbox uninstaller, install logs, url shortcuts linking to dead sites, update tools, install scripts, empty files etc. Hell of a mess!! oh please clean it up :/


You can always delete all useless files manually - steam won't download them again unless you try to verify game files.


Overlay doesn't work in software mode - even in Half-Life. You need to set games to OpenGL mode (where it's available) - old dos games do not support it.

About Source ports:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6581253&postcount=3

John Carmack responds to why the games were packaged the way they were. This specific answer is for why Doom was packaged with DOSBox and not a modern source port, but it applies to Quake series too:
It all comes down to resources -- re-qualifying a release of anything takes a lot of time, money, and support, while just shipping the exact same executables was fairly straightforward. While Doom and Quake might be able to justify the work, there is no way a lot of the titles could, so the decision was pretty obvious.

I strongly urge people with a little initiative to go look at the various high quality source ports, because they are better in essentially every aspect than the original sources, but we aren't going to make any of them official.

Tibo
09-11-2008, 04:57 AM
I knew this would come "you can do this, you can do that". I'm sure it's not my job to clean up that mess ;)
And it's sometimes so badly cleaned up that overlay won't work (see above) on some games just because they use batches files, they really didn't worry too much about that, imo it was rushed.

Acutally dosbox is using direct draw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directdraw) by default, but I think overlay only supports DX7 and above. But it does work when you put dosbox in openGL mode. Though it lags but that's ok I guess.

There's no music in the quake releases??!

As for Carmack I really love him but he obviously wasn't in charge I guess, and those games aren't cheap at all. Take an old game like ultimate doom, 10$, or get the doom pack for 40$, that's almost the price of a new game. I won't even talk about the quake pack.
Does it really take that much resources to release these games bit cleaner and with a source port. It took me 5 minutes to install one. Don't tell me those elite programmers can't do that!

fatalfourway
09-11-2008, 05:11 AM
It's been a year since id games were released on steam - so it is unlikely they would ever fix anything. :(

Tibo
09-11-2008, 05:14 AM
Don't give up on love lalala.
I'm just waiting to see if valve can fix the broken overlay on expansions then I'll edit this thread and post on id forums. I know they're not many, but they're hiring a lot to get doom 4 staff. All that work wouldn't even require a day of work.

Tibo
09-11-2008, 05:18 AM
Just to retalk about what carmack said: "I strongly urge people with a little initiative to go look at the various high quality source ports, because they are better in essentially every aspect than the original sources, but we aren't going to make any of them official."
Buying games is supposed to be plug and play sort of thing

Tibo
09-12-2008, 01:43 PM
They are not going to make any source ports official. ;)
Then they could release all of them with their products :)
And i've tried to search an id official forum but it doesn't exist!! :(

AngelGraves13
09-13-2008, 01:16 PM
Just get GZDOOM. It's fantastic! It plays DOOM games, Heretic, Hexen games.

Tibo
09-13-2008, 01:31 PM
it's called zdoom and yeah I have it. But it's not about that, it's just that how they released their games, a total mess! and how valve linked games to bat files whick is totally wrong. Anyways, I'm cleaning all that up, I'll upload them later to show how it's supposed to be ;)

Gelblitze
09-13-2008, 02:28 PM
And on other important stuff:
Doom 3 dedicated server doesn't even work. The doom3ded.exe is missing! WTH! Shouldn't it be in the tools sections anyways as it's a dedicated server?


PLEASE id fix this one!

Tibo
09-13-2008, 02:35 PM
Yeah that's ridiculous they forgot a file as important as that!! How are we suppose to launch a dedicated server?? Download a torrent??!
I'll soon send them a mail or something, i'll wait valve to fix steam linking to stupid bat files.

GrimCW
01-21-2009, 02:17 AM
ya'll want a fun one try WiiQuake :)
assuming ya got a Wii and Quake 1 (demo supported, alls it needs is the pak files) that is :)
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Quake

i tried it out its better than most wii games and adds a new way to play :p
it actually has the gun loose so you aim with the wii remote as opposed to just a generic port over with generic console controls.

djZM
01-24-2009, 03:32 PM
it's called zdoom and yeah I have it. But it's not about that, it's just that how they released their games, a total mess! and how valve linked games to bat files whick is totally wrong. Anyways, I'm cleaning all that up, I'll upload them later to show how it's supposed to be ;)

Aspects of the games aren't even complete--i.e., not being able to customize controls in the DOOM games via the setup.exe files, which happened to *not* be included? Hmm.

Psamathos
01-24-2009, 08:50 PM
I agree that these packages could use some polish. But source ports are an unreasonable request. iD sells the games that they made. They can't sell zdoom or other ports which they didn't even write. What you are getting is Doom in the classic form, and you can hardly fault them for that.

Tibo
01-25-2009, 10:37 AM
yeah you're right about source ports. I was wrong when I suggested that. But I guess the games will never be polished :(

Vonje
01-30-2009, 01:37 AM
IMO sourceports is a bad idea. It's not the original game and there may be law problems.

I do want overlay to work on more games though. I know DOSBOX may not support Steam overlay, but what prevents Steam from reporting you as "In-Game Ultimate Doom"?

noctuk
01-30-2009, 08:58 AM
I knew this would come "you can do this, you can do that". I'm sure it's not my job to clean up that mess ;)
And it's sometimes so badly cleaned up that overlay won't work (see above) on some games just because they use batches files, they really didn't worry too much about that, imo it was rushed.

Acutally dosbox is using direct draw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directdraw) by default, but I think overlay only supports DX7 and above. But it does work when you put dosbox in openGL mode. Though it lags but that's ok I guess.

There's no music in the quake releases??!

As for Carmack I really love him but he obviously wasn't in charge I guess, and those games aren't cheap at all. Take an old game like ultimate doom, 10$, or get the doom pack for 40$, that's almost the price of a new game. I won't even talk about the quake pack.
Does it really take that much resources to release these games bit cleaner and with a source port. It took me 5 minutes to install one. Don't tell me those elite programmers can't do that!

Theyre trying to squeeze out as much dollars as they can from those old games. Apparently they're not rich enough. I say dont throw your coins at them.

Tibo
01-30-2009, 09:23 AM
Theyre trying to squeeze out as much dollars as they can from those old games. Apparently they're not rich enough. I say dont throw your coins at them.
The guys at id have porsches and feraris. Doom 3 was pretty much a deception if we read forums and not reviews. Quake 4 failed to deliver. Quake wars didn't work out, too many multi game at that time maybe. We'll see how they do with mad max, errr rage.

Vonje
01-30-2009, 03:17 PM
The guys at id have porsches and feraris. Doom 3 was pretty much a deception if we read forums and not reviews. Quake 4 failed to deliver. Quake wars didn't work out, too many multi game at that time maybe. We'll see how they do with mad max, errr rage.

*Cough EA cough*

noctuk
01-30-2009, 05:18 PM
*Cough EA cough*

It'd do great when it's released in x-mas 2014. :D

Circlestrafe
01-31-2009, 08:18 PM
I appreciate all the 'crap' included, if not just for nostalgic reasons. Delete it and be done with it if you don't like it. (the extra crap, not the games themselves, Doom and glQuake still kick ♥♥♥ after all these years)

Arkayenro
01-04-2010, 04:11 PM
well its been a year since the last post on this thread and i just purchased doom ii (and some other dooms) for some old time fun. i'm here because it still doesnt work. and obviously hasnt worked for well over 2 years now.

we used to play this across the home lan, steam state that doom 2 is multiplayer and dont include setup.exe - how exactly are we supposed to play multiplayer? wheres the game i paid for? (for two copies)

steam should stop falsely advertising the game as multiplayer if theyre going to sell it in a modified form, either that or fix the thing so we can actually play a multiplayer game.

if the files are from id and cant be altered then steam need to take it up with them, not continue to sell a dodgy version.

kinkoblast
01-13-2010, 01:05 PM
Have you actually contacted support directly?

Also, setup.exe wouldn't help much, you'd also need to do some hacking on the DOSBox configuration file. And really, use a sourceport for multiplayer, the original netcode was great for its time, but...

And look at it this way: They COULD have used doom95, like the CD release I have. >_>

CSIG1001
01-18-2010, 07:14 PM
i am done buying old school games on steam unless it is retail..
ALL CD KEYS DONT WORK FOR STEAM ID GAMES. I CAN NOT PLAY ONLINE

STEAM REFUSES TO RETURN PHONE CALLS

Redboy
01-19-2010, 06:32 AM
Yeah it was dirty files, I only interesting in WAD lol

fisk0
07-23-2010, 10:08 PM
It's stupid that people who have paid for the games have to fix everything by themselves.

For multiplayer Doom, Doom II, Heretic and Hexen I recommend ZDaemon. It is a good server browser, which downloads updates automatically, can download missing custom wad files, patch iwads and also has some kind of ranking/leveling system which I don't know exactly how it works.

I'm not quite sure what is the best way to play Quake 1 anymore, QuakeWorld doesn't seem to be supported by GameSpy anymore, and there is no in-game server browser in the official Quake or QuakeWorld clients. I guess some source port should have that stuff.

There still is no music for Quake 1 + expansions, Quake 2 + expansions or Hexen II.
The Quake II expansions are not supported by any source ports by the way.

Circlestrafe
07-23-2010, 11:01 PM
It's stupid that people who have paid for the games have to fix everything by themselves.



I agree, however even when Quake was in it's prime I remember having to edit a Q95.bat file and config.cfg settings to get the game working well online. Though having to hunt down a source port is something else, and really shouldn't be something someone has to do.

Not to justify 'broken' games, but I'm always telling my kids they have it so easy, just pop the game in (my older son and his PS3), or install it (younger son and his PC), and they're online fragging away, when I remember having to (insert some extremely exaggerated activity here) to get our games running.

fisk0
07-24-2010, 06:13 AM
I agree, however even when Quake was in it's prime I remember having to edit a Q95.bat file and config.cfg settings to get the game working well online. Though having to hunt down a source port is something else, and really shouldn't be something someone has to do.

Not to justify 'broken' games, but I'm always telling my kids they have it so easy, just pop the game in (my older son and his PS3), or install it (younger son and his PC), and they're online fragging away, when I remember having to (insert some extremely exaggerated activity here) to get our games running.

Yes, sure. Back in the MS-DOS days with my 486/66 it wasn't uncommon to have to create specific bootdisks for some games, with their own config.sys and autoexec.bat files, so they could use as much of the 640K of conventional memory as possible, and many games didn't even have any sound setup programs, so you had to remember the right command line arguments to get the sound and graphics working as you wanted.
The point of Steam is that it will handle all that for you - even going as far as making it hard for you to edit commands and such stuff - which makes it ridiculous to have an whole collection of games you have to look around online on your own to get working properly.

MrZoolook
03-21-2011, 01:58 AM
Yes, sure. Back in the MS-DOS days with my 486/66 it wasn't uncommon to have to create specific bootdisks for some games, with their own config.sys and autoexec.bat files, so they could use as much of the 640K of conventional memory as possible
I remember when MS-DOS introduced multiple config files. At least then you didn't need to copy the config.sys and autoexec.bat files for your chosen game over to the root on your boot drive and then reset... you had a nice (text only) menu driven selection instead... those were the days when you at least had to have an inkling of what needed to be done and could 'fix' things. Unlike now when you can get away with knowing sod all and even if you know how something can be 'fixed' you are prevented by *delete as applicable* licensing/copyright issues, drm, self diagnostic solutions that prevent you from tweaking the setup better then it does, driver issues, direct-x issues, windows incompatibility issues...

*counts to 10*

MADDOGGE
03-21-2011, 08:20 AM
All I'm hearing is a bunch of crying over nothing. If you don't like what id provided through Steam then try and find a retail copy somewhere and play that if you can. Most of us old fans only care that the game is available legally. Would it have been nice for id to have buffed them up? Of course. Would we have gotten them at all if that had been a Steam requirement? Probably not.