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maGs
11-11-2008, 01:09 AM
I am currently having an annoying problem with Steam connecting and disconnecting over and over again.

This has just recently started since Left 4 Dead came around and I never before experienced any problems with Steam whatsoever.

This constant connection problem is shutting my Friends list on and off and making it impossible to join a game in Left 4 Dead.

Any idea what might be going on?

Nebiros3
11-11-2008, 06:42 PM
The exact same thing keeps happening to me. Have you been getting disconnected from servers as well?

maGs
11-11-2008, 07:00 PM
I can't even connect to any Left 4 Dead servers... I just get messages like "connection to steam lost," and "you must be logged into steam to do that."

It has never happened before and must be Steam related...

Nebiros3
11-11-2008, 08:55 PM
I can only get into a game by typing openserverbrowser in the developers console. Only some servers work though and I still can't find any open game lobby.

TheWildcard
11-11-2008, 09:28 PM
Yeah I'm getting this too....I tried posting threads, but they quickly vanished or got moved and vanished. Its odd thought it seems like every other update kills it here lately...the ones inbetween those I can actually play.

Nebiros3
11-12-2008, 08:47 AM
You know a MODERATOR would really HELPFUL about now.... :cool:

slicky
11-12-2008, 09:29 AM
Im no moderator, but im pretty sure there's a bug with this. And not only steam disconnect constantly, the internet disconnect til steam is exited.

This need to be fix ASAP.

Nebiros3
11-12-2008, 11:36 AM
My internet has stayed connected the whole time, its just steam.

ClivePwen
11-12-2008, 01:40 PM
I get the exact same problem. I think it is a bug, because it just started happening with the last update. File a ticket if you haven't already.

LemmingsOwnYou
11-12-2008, 04:13 PM
Like this?
http://mugsy.be/steam_friends_connection_problems.png

I have been having this problem for a while now. But since Left4Dead relies on steam friends to connect to any server, it is now getting very frustrating. If there is no fix, I will not be buying Left4Dead.

EDIT: Things I have tried to fix this:
-Deleting ClientRegistry.blob
-Reinstalling steam
-Forwarding ports 1200(Steam Friends) and 27000-27050(Random Steam Ports)
-Unblocking every *steam*.exe files I could find from my firewall

Also, this typically only happens when I get in a game. Nothing has worked so far.

maGs
11-12-2008, 07:08 PM
I am having that exact same problem Lemmings!

Anyone else having this issue please respond so Valve takes notice and fixes this problem ASAP!!

Nebiros3
11-13-2008, 08:36 AM
Help us Valve you're our only hope!

FulValBot (ITA)
11-13-2008, 09:00 AM
same my friends have the same problem.

pls valve fix it.

HateThat
11-13-2008, 09:44 AM
I have the exact same problem here, and have been living in forums for the past 6 hours trying to find solutions(it's a miracle i found this thread). But anyway yeah i have tried all the stuff you guys have tried (reinstall, deleting clientreg etc..) and still no joy. Keep getting signed out of steam the second i join a game or maybe 2 minutes in (if im lucky).

So basically this sucks, steam get up off your rump and help us out!

Lozenger
11-13-2008, 01:20 PM
My problem is very similar but slightly different, I don't get the message "Lost connection to Steam" or whatever, it just gets to the character screen after the game has launched, then doesn't connect and gives me the error "Connection failed after 10 retries"

Any idea what the problem could be? I've had this problem with Team Fortress 2 before as well, so it might just be general Steam.

HateThat
11-13-2008, 02:14 PM
Sorry man wrong thread. There's another one with your exact problem though just look about a bit. This one is for when steam signs off by itself when you load up a game. Preventing us to play online.

Someone please help, the demo is only out for a limited time, would like to play it.

HateThat
11-14-2008, 07:01 AM
Hey mags, try Left For Dead now, i think steam may have recovered..... Played a few games without a hitch.

HateThat
11-14-2008, 09:20 AM
Actually no i was wrong, got disconnected from steam so many times just there..... probably not gonna buy this game now cause of this and the fact that we get no support for our problems. BULL!

KloroFormd
11-14-2008, 01:19 PM
Same problem here.

About 5 seconds after entering a lobby in L4D demo, I get "Connection to Steam lost". Every time.

Before the update for Steam I installed today, I never seen this problem.

maGs
11-14-2008, 03:41 PM
help needed on this ASAP

FK120
11-14-2008, 04:00 PM
Todays update ruined everything.

Cmon, valve... it was even posted in your thread that there was a problem but you released it anyway. Sigh...

glb
11-15-2008, 05:36 AM
I can't even connect to any Left 4 Dead servers... I just get messages like "connection to steam lost," and "you must be logged into steam to do that."

It has never happened before and must be Steam related...

Same problem here. I've already bought the game... :(

Mr. Bunny
11-15-2008, 06:26 AM
I'm getting this too. The weird thing is it worked great Thursday night and Friday morning. Friday night is when this started happening to me.

kop48
11-15-2008, 06:30 AM
Oh and if you try to join a game in progress, it just won't load now. Bloody hell, is it too much to ask to test the patches before making them live? Especially when the beta release had someone mentioning this problem in the thread to begin with!!!

GotGhosts?
11-15-2008, 08:08 AM
Are you getting these disconnects when you are only trying to go on a server with Left 4 Dead or is it happening when you try to join other HL servers?

Since the Steam Update the end of October, they changed the protocol of all hl1 games from goldsrc to hl2, my players are also getting disconnected if they can join at all.

I don't mean to go off topic on your thread I just wanted to know if you were getting disconnected to other games.
Several of my players getting disconnected have said they were going to get the Left 4 Dead demo as well.

Thanks,
GotGhosts?

glb
11-15-2008, 09:36 AM
The weird thing is it worked great Thursday night and Friday morning. Friday night is when this started happening to me.

Same as I can remember: it doesn't work since Friday (I tried to connect at 8 or 9 p.m. GMT).
Before, the connection permitted me to complete some games.

Soul-slayer88
11-15-2008, 12:27 PM
The thing i see in the thread is that it most of the time happens (or all the time)to the game L4D, i have the same problem atm the only thing i could think of is of an update valve made since it worked fine 3 days ago...

kop48
11-15-2008, 03:55 PM
I've only tried TF2, but it's definitely only occuring with L4D. In TF2, Steam friends works fine and I have no Steam disconnections...

LanFeusT
11-15-2008, 04:15 PM
Same story here!

maGs
11-15-2008, 08:17 PM
The thing i see in the thread is that it most of the time happens (or all the time)to the game L4D, i have the same problem atm the only thing i could think of is of an update valve made since it worked fine 3 days ago...

This problem makes Left 4 Dead unplayable, but it does effect Steam Friends outside of the game as well. The friends list will connect and disconnect over and over. I have never had a problem like this until Left 4 Dead was released.

I can still play all other Half Life games with no issues though.

Soul-slayer88
11-15-2008, 08:50 PM
The thing is that if the update makes you connect and disconnect etc ... from steam and l4d it will affect everything in relation with steam which means ur friend list to the simple fact of updating l4d made everything go wrong ... that's the point i guess

HateThat
11-15-2008, 10:40 PM
Still getting it, but noticing that it lasts longer if you connect online rather than play with friends. And also join a game in progress should help too. If you get disconnected from steam again just wait and try to rejoin the server when you're back online. Should work for a while.

Best i can do without steam fixing it.

An even newer update is also out for Left 4 Dead, so maybe it kind of cleared it up. Dont know for sure, but the only advice i can give is to keep trying to connect, the full game shouldn't have all of this crap. Might as well play the most you can of this incredible game. :P

Sv-z
11-16-2008, 09:14 AM
Those who have this newly problem do you connect your Internet through router? Try connecting directly to modem if you do.

I am getting it the first time I loaded up L4D. It is worse for me because when it happens, it brings the whole Internet connection down. Now Steam client also does this once in a while when accessing Settings. But when I connect directly to ADSL modem, it won't happen.

This is my original thread
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749479

maGs
11-16-2008, 05:27 PM
Those who have this newly problem do you connect your Internet through router? Try connecting directly to modem if you do.

I am getting it the first time I loaded up L4D. It is worse for me because when it happens, it brings the whole Internet connection down. Now Steam client also does this once in a while when accessing Settings. But when I connect directly to ADSL modem, it won't happen.

This is my original thread
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749479

Nope, no router here but still have this issue...

Wispeh
11-16-2008, 07:55 PM
Those who have this newly problem do you connect your Internet through router? Try connecting directly to modem if you do.

I am getting it the first time I loaded up L4D. It is worse for me because when it happens, it brings the whole Internet connection down. Now Steam client also does this once in a while when accessing Settings. But when I connect directly to ADSL modem, it won't happen.

This is my original thread
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749479

It's not the router. I have a friend who has this issue and we have tried bypassing the router, has no effect. It is a problem with Steam.

glb
11-17-2008, 04:41 AM
Nope, no router here but still have this issue...

I've got a router. Anyway, after some Steam updates, now the connection works (no more disconnect/reconnect issue).

HateThat
11-17-2008, 06:54 AM
The issue is somewhat fixed for me. I can play through the whole thhing now online with mates and everything. But when we finished both levels and try to start again i get "Disconnected from Steam". Also on the subway loading up i get "Retry Connection" until i progress in the level to the first stairs down. Very odd stuff. I'm sure the full version will be fine though :)

HateThat
11-17-2008, 07:09 AM
actually i take it back, still happening..... disconnected from steam/connected to steam BS.... FFS!!!!!

HateThat
11-17-2008, 07:19 AM
you know now it is actually taking longer to register that it's disconnected from steam. I've emailed them last thursday on the subject and never got a reply. It's reassuring to know they care. Odd that they'd have a topic up on their support page for Left For Dead Demo when they wont respond to you when the game is only available.

Pottydodger
11-17-2008, 07:29 AM
Playing an hour ago I get the problem only at spawn connect/disconnect over and over until we got downstairs, then it plays fine till the door closes on level 1 and then it starts again until I get downstairs where it becomes fine again. The constant updates fix and then unfix the issue.

I think that the servers not being updated as well is a big part of the problem.

TadKnowsBest
11-17-2008, 04:03 PM
Just chiming in to say that this same thing has been happening to me from day one.

Somebody else on my network doesn't have the problem, so it's not the router or its settings.

HateThat
11-17-2008, 04:24 PM
a bit of good news finally. got a response back from valve about the issue. But basically its no solution, they just said that they've stopped helping people out with the demo and are preparing to support people with the full game. But the full gamee should be bug free........ supposedly. So i guess good luck with your full game in 6 hours or so.

Nebiros3
11-18-2008, 10:57 AM
Same isssue with full version. Bypassed router no change :confused: i'm stumped. Send your msinfo to support if you still have this issue.

maGs
11-19-2008, 01:08 AM
I absolutely cannot believe this problem hasn't been fixed in the full version. There are people out here that can't play!

Rektumsaft
11-19-2008, 07:54 AM
I have the same problem.

My problem is very similar but slightly different, I don't get the message "Lost connection to Steam" or whatever, it just gets to the character screen after the game has launched, then doesn't connect and gives me the error "Connection failed after 10 retries"

Any idea what the problem could be? I've had this problem with Team Fortress 2 before as well, so it might just be general Steam.

I also have this problem...

LET'S KEEP THIS BUMPED UNTIL WE KNOW THAT THEY KNOW ABOUT THIS.

Rektumsaft
11-19-2008, 11:06 AM
Nobody has any solutions to this?

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-19-2008, 11:53 AM
if you have the full version of L4D, describe exactly what symptoms you are seeing.

Make sure you tell me what OS/system/firewall you are running and what modem/router you are using.

Also, if you are running AVG antivirus let me know.

Kinematic9
11-19-2008, 12:21 PM
I as well have this same problem, noticed it most on TF2 server connecting, alittle bit with the CS:Source browser, and most recently with L4D, a game that i want to play so badly but the online experience is ruining it.

Makes me wish I picked up the x360 version for online capabilities, something i never thought Id say before.

Edit:

Joining game works perfectly, most of the time the gameplay will start out fine. Then suddenly, the character stops, I am able to mouselook around, but movement in any other direction is impossible. The screen shakes violently, but I can still hear voices from voice chat perfectly clear. AI/Other players are frozen on my screen as well.

Sometimes (10 seconds to up to a minute) it syncs back up or whatever and is fine again for a bit, but it rarely says the connection problem countdown. If i quit to Menu, my stem friends list shows that i have been disconnected from the steam servers, and then reconnects pretty much right away.

Vista Home Premum x64 SP1 / Fully Updated / MS Firewall turned off
Core2 @ 3.0
4gb DDR2/800
Realtek Onboard 7.1
nVidia GTX280 SSC, 179.xx drivers (last WHQL release)
1920x1200 resolution
(No overclocking)

Wireless connection, Dlink DGL 4300 gaming router, latest firmware, all necessary STEAM ports opened (verified with steam diognostics as well)

AVG 8.0 Free is installed on my system, I close it out after startup.

Never have any problem with online gaming, except for the issues I see with Steam.

Rektumsaft
11-19-2008, 12:23 PM
if you have the full version of L4D, describe exactly what symptoms you are seeing.

Make sure you tell me what OS/system/firewall you are running and what modem/router you are using.

Also, if you are running AVG antivirus let me know.
Full version, purchased through steam. Let's see...
I play L4D for a while, any mode, then suddenly it starts counting down (retrying to connect). Then I disconnect. If I try to reconnect (either through friends, serverbrowser or entering the IP in console), all I get is "failed after 10 retries".

I only started noticing that steam actually cuts me off of the friends network constantly. As in it stays disconnected for about a minute or two, then it is online for a while...

Firewall I'm not sure, I guess my router acts as my firewall. I use WinXPsp3.

I use Avast! Antivirus, I tried turning off it's on-access protection but that didn't help.

My router is an IntenoX5668B

Rektumsaft
11-19-2008, 02:23 PM
Hopefully they are working on a fix =/

Edit: I will be bumping this in 10 hours or so, unless it's already bumped.
Gnite!

Nebiros3
11-19-2008, 04:37 PM
Vista Home Premum x64 Fully Updated Firewall turned off
IntelCore2 @ 3.0
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS x2 in SLi and 4GB ram

I bypassed my router, disabled my Norton Anti-virus and firewall. My modem is what ever Comcast gave me which I reset as well.

This repeats on the console in the main menu.
[L4DMM] CMatchmaking(state = 5)::SessionNotification( 0(FAIL_SEARCH), 0 )
[L4DUI] CUIGameData::SessionNotification( 0, 0 )
[L4DMM] CMatchmaking::SwitchToState( 5 -> 0 ) ( MMSTATE_SEARCHING -> MMSTATE_INITIAL )
[L4DMM] CSession::SwitchToState( 0 -> 0 ) (NONE - NONE)
[L4DMM] CMatchGame::RemoveAllPlayers
[L4DUI] CUIGameData::Notify( SYSLINK_SEARCH_COMPLETED, 0, 0)
Steam_OnServersDisconnected
[L4DUI] CUIGameData::Notify( PLAYER_DISCONNECTED_FROM_LIVE, 0, 0)
[L4DUI] CUIGameData::Notify( FRIEND_SEARCH_COMPLETED, 0, 0)
[L4DMM] CMatchmaking::SwitchToState( 0 -> 5 ) ( MMSTATE_INITIAL -> MMSTATE_SEARCHING )
[L4DUI] CUIGameData::Notify( FRIEND_SEARCH_COMPLETED, 0, 0)
[L4DUI] CUIGameData::Notify( FRIEND_SEARCH_COMPLETED, 0, 0)
[L4DUI] CUIGameData::Notify( SERVERS_USER_GROUPS_SEARCH_COMPLETED, 0, 0)
[L4DMM] CMatchmaking(state = 5)::SessionNotification( 0(FAIL_SEARCH), 0 )
[L4DUI] CUIGameData::SessionNotification( 0, 0 )
[L4DMM] CMatchmaking::SwitchToState( 5 -> 0 ) ( MMSTATE_SEARCHING -> MMSTATE_INITIAL )
[L4DMM] CSession::SwitchToState( 0 -> 0 ) (NONE - NONE)
[L4DMM] CMatchGame::RemoveAllPlayers
[L4DUI] CUIGameData::Notify( SYSLINK_SEARCH_COMPLETED, 0, 0)
Steam_OnServersConnected

And this error when I attempt to load a server.
[L4DUI] After close all windows:
[L4DUI] OnLevelLoadingStarted - opening loading progress (<< no level specified >>)...
[L4DUI] CL4DBasePanel::OnGameUIActivated( delay = 0 )
Cannot send to client info with NULL XUID!

Brainfreezebob
11-19-2008, 05:04 PM
if you have the full version of L4D, describe exactly what symptoms you are seeing.

Make sure you tell me what OS/system/firewall you are running and what modem/router you are using.

Also, if you are running AVG antivirus let me know.


I have the full version of L4D, though my problem seems more fundamental. Ever since last night, whenever I log into Steam, my connection cycles on and off ever 20 seconds or so, killing my friends list and bringing it back up over and over again.

Whenever I've tried to play L4D, usually by trying to join a friend's game, it goes into an endless loading screen that eventual have to shut down through the task manager.

I had no problem with the L4D demo, and I played the full game for a couple of hours the night it came out without issue.

I'm running 32 bit Vista, and I've tried the following things without any success:

I bypassed my router.
I turned off Windows Firewall entirely.
I rebooted my cable modem.

I'm not experiencing any other weirdness with my connection otherwise. Internet browsing, Xbox Live, etc, all runs fine.

ClivePwen
11-19-2008, 06:23 PM
If you haven't opened a ticket yet, do it after this post.

I've been having this same problem for over a week, as have several others. I've had the chance to talk with someone at support, and he told me "There may be a problem with a recent Steam update that is causing the connect/disconnect that you and some of the others are experiencing."

Before you open a ticket, it might be worthwhile to follow the steps in each of these links, just to say you have.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...8043-EUJN-5239

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...9609-OBMP-2526

http://support.steampowered.com/kb_a...1456-EUDN-2493

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-19-2008, 07:04 PM
Never run without a firewall on, use the native XP or Vista firewall at least.

Kinematic9
11-19-2008, 07:06 PM
Never run without a firewall on, use the native XP or Vista firewall at least.


whats that have to do with this thread?

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-19-2008, 07:20 PM
whats that have to do with this thread?I see people in this thread bypassing their router and disabling firewall and av to play and that's just asking for problems.

Kinematic9
11-19-2008, 07:21 PM
I see people in this thread bypassing their router and disabling firewall and av to play and that's just asking for problems.

Ah if only there was a solution =( like, um, valve fixing this issue

Rektumsaft
11-20-2008, 12:54 AM
Still nothing, huh? =/

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-20-2008, 01:23 AM
Still nothing, huh? =/The fact that you are able to connect ok and play for a while indicates that you don't have a firewall or a/v problem.

Have you run the Steam System Scan test? I have a button for it in my qs_toolkit, give that a spin and post back what it says:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576154

Rektumsaft
11-20-2008, 02:18 AM
The fact that you are able to connect ok and play for a while indicates that you don't have a firewall or a/v problem.

Have you run the Steam System Scan test? I have a button for it in my qs_toolkit, give that a spin and post back what it says:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576154

General System Performance: Passed
Your system meets the requirements for the Source games.
Your CPU: Intel 3410 MHz
Minimum CPU: 1200 MHz
Recommended CPU: 2400 MHz

Total Memory: 2048 MB
Available Memory: 1516 MB
Minimum Memory: 256 MB
Recommended Memory: 512 MB

Display drivers: Passed
There were no problems with the display drivers you are using.
You should still check for updated drivers, which are available here
Display Adapter: Radeon X1950 Pro
Display Version: 6.14.10.6869

DirectX: Passed
Your version of DirectX meets the minimum requirements

UDP Ports: Passed
The following UDP ports were reachable.
UDP Port: 27000 - 27040

TCP Ports: Passed
The following TCP ports were reachable.
TCP Port: 27020 - 27040

Background Processes: Passed
There were no processes found that conflict with Steam or the games.

Loaded Modules: Passed
There were no loaded modules found that conflict with Steam or the games.

Services: Passed
There were no services found that conflict with Steam or the games.

Layered Service Providers: Passed
There were no LSPs found that should conflict with Steam or the games.

Audio/Video Codecs: Passed
There were no audio/video codecs found that conflict with Steam or the games.

Thanks for your continuing help, Quick :)

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-20-2008, 02:37 AM
That all certainly looks ok Rektumsaft. Functionally there doesn't appear to be anything System related that would cause you problems.

WinXP SP3 has a native firewall that is ok if it's enabled.

Your router is wireless? Inteno X5668B (not a lot on the web about that model but I found this):
http://forum.portforward.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Routers;action=display;num=12017948 97

So that appears to be an all-in-one adsl modem/switch/router box.

Are you using wireless from your computer to the router or are you hard-wired into the router?

Rektumsaft
11-20-2008, 03:02 AM
So that appears to be an all-in-one adsl modem/switch/router box.

Are you using wireless from your computer to the router or are you hard-wired into the router?
I'm hard-wired to it. My mother is the only one connected wireless to that modem.
I've never had any trouble with any steam games before, so I'm pretty sure it has something to do with L4D :P

Kinematic9
11-20-2008, 06:24 AM
Ill throw mine up there too for Valve to ignore.

Results



General System Performance: Passed
Your system meets the requirements for the Source games.
Your CPU: Intel 6000 MHz
Minimum CPU: 1200 MHz
Recommended CPU: 2400 MHz

Total Memory: 4094 MB
Available Memory: 2141 MB
Minimum Memory: 256 MB
Recommended Memory: 512 MB




DirectX: Passed
Your version of DirectX meets the minimum requirements




UDP Ports: Passed
The following UDP ports were reachable.
UDP Port: 27000 - 27040




TCP Ports: Passed
The following TCP ports were reachable.
TCP Port: 27020 - 27040




Background Processes: Passed
There were no processes found that conflict with Steam or the games.



Loaded Modules: Passed
There were no loaded modules found that conflict with Steam or the games.



Services: Passed
There were no services found that conflict with Steam or the games.



Layered Service Providers: Passed
There were no LSPs found that should conflict with Steam or the games.



Audio/Video Codecs: Passed
There were no audio/video codecs found that conflict with Steam or the games.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-20-2008, 08:39 AM
Kinematic9, this isn't right - are you overclocking?Your CPU: Intel 6000 MHz

Kinematic9
11-20-2008, 08:41 AM
Kinematic9, this isn't right - are you overclocking?

Dual Core 3.0 = 2 procs

Rektumsaft
11-20-2008, 11:21 AM
I've played for several hours today and there has yet to happen a single problem. Maybe they stealth-fixed it? :P

Kinematic9
11-20-2008, 11:22 AM
Im still having issues.

p00se2
11-20-2008, 12:31 PM
its not just steam all of my internet goes bye bye :o

Kinematic9
11-20-2008, 02:10 PM
its not just steam all of my internet goes bye bye :o

Yes, that happens to me as well sometimes.. Ive been trying L4D over the past 2 hours or so, and its happened to me about 8 - 10 times. I let it sit there, I can still hear voices clearly - but the last time it happened to me a few minutes ago, it booted me from the internet totally for 10 seconds or so.

Boots me from the internet when i try and connect to Tf2 servers and some CS:S servers as well.

Kinematic9
11-20-2008, 02:11 PM
Where can I open a steam ticket btw? Im sick of this, these forums are really not helping anything, and the support part of the site gives me some stupid FAQ search.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-20-2008, 02:25 PM
its not just steam all of my internet goes bye bye :oThis is your router getting overloaded.

You need to lower the Steam Download Rate to something around dsl/768 to keep from overloading your router.

Steam > settings > downloads > internet connection rate = dsl/768

You need to exit steam and restart for that setting to take effect.

If you change your game rate it will change the Steam connection rate also which can cause this problem to return.

I made a little tool that will prevent the Steam rate from changing:
http://qsextreme.com/SteamRate

There is a chance all of you are having this same problem, try setting your Steam rates to 768, restart Steam and see if you still have this problem.

Various symptoms you might see with an incorrect Steam rate setting are:
1. very slow server listings in the server browser
2. fewer then expected servers showing up in the steam browser
3. getting disconnected for a variety of reasons about 1 minute after connecting to a server
4. getting disconnected (listen server or regular server) with odd messages.

Rektumsaft
11-20-2008, 02:56 PM
Seems like the problem is gone for me, played a lot today and haven't had any problems. Except when trying to connect to any friend's local host.. That simply won't work for me. "Connection failed after 10 retries".

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Seems like the problem is gone for me, played a lot today and haven't had any problems. Except when trying to connect to any friend's local host.. That simply won't work for me. "Connection failed after 10 retries".Very good Rektumsaft, play on!

You can't connect to someone elses NAT internal IP address unless you are behind the same router with him, it doesn't really exist outside of his home network.

Rektumsaft
11-20-2008, 03:10 PM
Very good Rektumsaft, play on!

You can't connect to someone elses NAT internal IP address unless you are behind the same router with him, it doesn't really exist outside of his home network.

I will :D

In left4dead you can choose whether you want the lobby to search for a dedicated or a local server. If it's a local server it will use the lobby leaders comp to host the game. I know it works because some friends can connect, friends that don't even live in the same country.
The local host function is the most desirable option as you're at no risk of joining some random laggy dedicated server.

Cheers

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-20-2008, 03:27 PM
I will :D

In left4dead you can choose whether you want the lobby to search for a dedicated or a local server. If it's a local server it will use the lobby leaders comp to host the game. I know it works because some friends can connect, friends that don't even live in the same country.
The local host function is the most desirable option as you're at no risk of joining some random laggy dedicated server.

Cheers Ah, it's "local server" not "local host". Local host is something quite different in internet terms.

Local Server means you are creating a local server from your client otherwise known as a "listen server" in Valve terms.

IE: so you are not searching for a "local server" you are actually creating one. Of course this will not be laggy since you are running the server yourself and players are connecting to you.

Very often, players are unable to run a listen server (that other players can connect to) if they have an aggressive firewall blocking ports or if they haven't forwarded the Server port (in their router) to the computer that is running the server.

Rektumsaft
11-20-2008, 03:33 PM
Yeah, I totally phrased that wrongly. But I'd like to know: What port is the server port? I don't think I have an aggressive firewall. I know how to open ports btw. I'm really tired now, going to bed.

Thanks for all the help man, cheers and good night.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-20-2008, 04:06 PM
Yeah, I totally phrased that wrongly. But I'd like to know: What port is the server port? I don't think I have an aggressive firewall. I know how to open ports btw. I'm really tired now, going to bed.

Thanks for all the help man, cheers and good night.The default server port is 27015 UDP and TCP for Source games.

maGs
11-20-2008, 07:26 PM
I think people are reporting issues in this thread that are unrelated to the original problem which this post was intended for. The original creation of this thread was to address the issue involving steam friends signing on and off over and over again.

This problem in turn makes it near impossible to join a game of Left 4 Dead as once the friends connection goes down, so does the connection to any Left 4 Dead lobby.

For reference:

Intel Q6600
4 Gigs RAM
Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTX
Windows Vista 64 SP1
Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer

I am not connected to a router, turn off anti-virus before gaming, and have attempted to disable the firewall to check if that was the issue.... it wasn't.

It should also be noted though that this problem does directly relate to the, "Steam_OnServersDisconnected," and, "Cannot send to client info with NULL XUID!" console error messages.

Brainfreezebob
11-21-2008, 12:13 AM
I think people are reporting issues in this thread that are unrelated to the original problem which this post was intended for. The original creation of this thread was to address the issue involving steam friends signing on and off over and over again.

This problem in turn makes it near impossible to join a game of Left 4 Dead as once the friends connection goes down, so does the connection to any Left 4 Dead lobby.

For reference:

Intel Q6600
4 Gigs RAM
Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTX
Windows Vista 64 SP1
Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer

I am not connected to a router, turn off anti-virus before gaming, and have attempted to disable the firewall to check if that was the issue.... it wasn't.

It should also be noted though that this problem does directly relate to the, "Steam_OnServersDisconnected," and, "Cannot send to client info with NULL XUID!" console error messages.

Yes,this is my problem exactly. I haven't been able to play since Monday, and I don't know what to do about it.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-21-2008, 12:23 AM
maGs and Brainfreezebob, what exactly is your Steam rate set to?

maGs
11-21-2008, 01:40 AM
DSL/Cable > 2m

Rektumsaft
11-21-2008, 01:49 AM
The default server port is 27015 UDP and TCP for Source games.


UDP Ports: Passed
The following UDP ports were reachable.
UDP Port: 27000 - 27040

TCP Ports: Passed
The following TCP ports were reachable.
TCP Port: 27020 - 27040

Doesn't this mean that I should be able to host a local server without problems? I don't get it :S

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-21-2008, 02:16 AM
UDP Ports: Passed
The following UDP ports were reachable.
UDP Port: 27000 - 27040

TCP Ports: Passed
The following TCP ports were reachable.
TCP Port: 27020 - 27040

Doesn't this mean that I should be able to host a local server without problems? I don't get it :SThose are outgoing not in-coming ports.

Players need to be able to send a query to your server which has to make it through the NAT in your router to the internal IP address and port of the computer running the server.

maGs DSL/Cable > 2m If you set your rate to dsl/768 (and restart Steam) do you see any change in the problem behavior?

Rektumsaft
11-21-2008, 03:24 AM
Alright, I opened the port and called the service Steam. I'll report back if it worked.

"Steam - 27015 - 27015 TCP/UDP [MY IP]"

Rektumsaft
11-21-2008, 08:10 AM
No luck. Both me and my friend opened that port for both TCP and UDP and it didn't help. Still failed to connect after 10 retries.

Brainfreezebob
11-21-2008, 09:54 AM
maGs and Brainfreezebob, what exactly is your Steam rate set to?

Mine is set to cable/fiber > 10. I tried bumping down to DSL, but that didn't change the friends list connection cycling problem.

Kinematic9
11-21-2008, 10:29 AM
Changed my connection speed to 768, joined a game, made it through 3 maps and i got one tiny little hiccup with lag. Seemed to be better on this try, until 'lost connection to client', and then steam friends list told me that 'steam was down for routine maintenance'

Im guessing this is a legit steam maint? And just a coincidence?

Rektumsaft
11-21-2008, 11:14 AM
I'm getting the steam maint too.

Kinematic9
11-21-2008, 11:47 AM
Changed my connection speed to 768, joined a game, made it through 3 maps and i got one tiny little hiccup with lag. Seemed to be better on this try, until 'lost connection to client', and then steam friends list told me that 'steam was down for routine maintenance'

Im guessing this is a legit steam maint? And just a coincidence?

Nvmd, next game i tried after 'steam maint', happened 2x in the same level. Still not fixed.

bloodypalace
11-21-2008, 11:57 AM
My steam community page has started logging out...

HateThat
11-21-2008, 12:24 PM
problem is worse now than ever before, can't flinch without steam disconnecting. Bought the game now and all, still just the most annoying thing ever. I've been getting replies from steam about the issue and have sent them my system info etc... Hopefully they'll get back to me with a legit fix. Will let yous know asap.

TheWildcard
11-21-2008, 12:45 PM
I've been having the same problem...it comes and it goes. No clue why nothing on my side changes. Past few days I've played without a problem...Today? Connection problems all over.

colegadelavega7
11-21-2008, 01:38 PM
me too.

played demo perfectly at 2M

got the retail game today.


cant play online

I cant believe this is happening

Nebiros3
11-21-2008, 01:40 PM
I was able to play for an hour untill the issue came back bad as ever.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-21-2008, 02:02 PM
This is looking more and more like a Vista problem, are you all using Vista 64? I'll fire up my Vista test machine and see if I can replicate the problem.

Rektumsaft
11-21-2008, 02:24 PM
I'm using WinXPsp3 and I still have not been able to figure out why hosting local server with friends rarely works :|

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-21-2008, 02:49 PM
I'm using WinXPsp3 and I still have not been able to figure out why hosting local server with friends rarely works :|ahh that is a different problem then the steam connecting/disconnecting!

TheWildcard
11-21-2008, 02:56 PM
This is looking more and more like a Vista problem, are you all using Vista 64? I'll fire up my Vista test machine and see if I can replicate the problem.

No I have two different machines I play on one is windows xp the other is vista 32. Both have the exact same problem, but its hard to track it down because it works for a few days then is down for a couple.

ClivePwen
11-21-2008, 03:10 PM
I'm having the same error as MAGs on XP

Rektumsaft
11-21-2008, 03:33 PM
ahh that is a different problem then the steam connecting/disconnecting!

Indeed it is. Still need to figure it out though! :P

maGs
11-21-2008, 06:52 PM
Those are outgoing not in-coming ports.

Players need to be able to send a query to your server which has to make it through the NAT in your router to the internal IP address and port of the computer running the server.

If you set your rate to dsl/768 (and restart Steam) do you see any change in the problem behavior?

I tried changing to DSL/768, and unfortunately it didn't help resolve the issue...

Crip02
11-21-2008, 07:39 PM
This is looking more and more like a Vista problem, are you all using Vista 64? I'll fire up my Vista test machine and see if I can replicate the problem.

Not a Vista 64 issue, I play on Vista 64 without any problems. I came looking for this thread because a friend of mine is having the issue. Also as some people have stated they are having the issue on XP.

When local hosting my friend can never connect to my game, however after an earlier suggestion, we played several hours on a dedicated server last night and he didn't have any issues.

This is an improvement over previous attempts where the friend's list on his side would show him being disconnected from Steam, where as from my side, the notification never told me he was going on or offline.

blackops88
11-21-2008, 08:04 PM
Yeah when I try and play any game from steam after about 15 mins everything that needs internet shuts down, steam, xfire, web browser, aim etc... but i go to my cmd box and ping a site like yahoo and it says im connected to the network

Bill Lumburgh
11-21-2008, 08:35 PM
Anybody got a fix for this crap losing connection to game and killing my internet connection? Getting very frustrated!

maGs
11-22-2008, 12:48 AM
Anybody got a fix for this crap losing connection to game and killing my internet connection? Getting very frustrated!

The internet shut down is a different subject then the one we're discussing here....

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-22-2008, 03:04 AM
Anybody got a fix for this crap losing connection to game and killing my internet connection? Getting very frustrated!Bill, read about and try this app to help that problem:
http://qsextreme.com/SteamRate

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-22-2008, 04:29 AM
Well I played an entire mission (over an hour's worth) on my Vista 64 (AMD 3000+) system that has an old 9800 pro card in it, it was a little slow but I didn't have one single glitch the entire time.

I do admit I have a ton of services disabled on that box and all power savings options totally disabled so if the problem is one of those things then it will be tricky to track down.

One thing to check is that you have all usb and network devices set to not allow the os to turn off power (it shouldn't make a difference but may as well eliminate it as a possibility).

That system is behind a dlink DI604 router that connected to my Zyxel DSL modem.

_skoll
11-22-2008, 05:34 AM
...The original creation of this thread was to address the issue involving steam friends signing on and off over and over again.

This problem in turn makes it near impossible to join a game of Left 4 Dead as once the friends connection goes down, so does the connection to any Left 4 Dead lobby...

I've been having the same exact problem ever since the left4dead demo expired, i bought the game on retail and havent been able to play it online even once.

The steam friends hopping on/off started exactly when the demo expired as i remember. I have vista32bit, tried re-installing, with router and without, disabling av & fw but still no change. Never had any problems with Steam before.

Even activating the game and getting it installed took a whole night, 'cause steam could'nt connect to the activation server. :o

TheWildcard
11-22-2008, 08:46 AM
Well I played an entire mission (over an hour's worth) on my Vista 64 (AMD 3000+) system that has an old 9800 pro card in it, it was a little slow but I didn't have one single glitch the entire time.

I do admit I have a ton of services disabled on that box and all power savings options totally disabled so if the problem is one of those things then it will be tricky to track down.

One thing to check is that you have all usb and network devices set to not allow the os to turn off power (it shouldn't make a difference but may as well eliminate it as a possibility).

That system is behind a dlink DI604 router that connected to my Zyxel DSL modem.

I'm not entirely sure this is a problem that can be fixed on the users side. I mean as I mentioned before yesterday I could play just fine. Its after yesterdays patch that I couldn't play all of a sudden. It seems like every other patch breaks it for me. I'm pretty sure other people are noticing the same thing. Just incase it is my side I already have a ticket in...That has gone nowhere to fix this issue for the past month. Though that is partially due to the fact that the problem comes and goes with various patches making it difficult to track down.

Kinematic9
11-22-2008, 10:25 AM
The internet shut down is a different subject then the one we're discussing here....

I dont think it is, i think its due to the same thing, you get booted the same ways, sometimes its DCs from the net, sometimes it doesnt, regardless, its steam connection issues which are the title of the thread.

BTW i am still having the same issues with my rate set to 768. Bad as ever.

Really making me angry

BTW demo worked flawlessly for me as well

TheWildcard
11-22-2008, 11:07 AM
I dont think it is, i think its due to the same thing, you get booted the same ways, sometimes its DCs from the net, sometimes it doesnt, regardless, its steam connection issues which are the title of the thread.

BTW i am still having the same issues with my rate set to 768. Bad as ever.

Really making me angry

BTW demo worked flawlessly for me as well


Actually bud I'm don't think its the same issue either. If you are completely losing internet due to whatever is going on that could be a number of things. The other folks here aren't getting disconnected from the internet...Just from steam friends list which then causes us to get disconnected from steam games for some reason. At no point do we lose our internet connection and it just baffles us all to hell because its works sometimes and doesn't work others.

colegadelavega7
11-22-2008, 11:42 AM
OK.

I got the problem yesterday right after retailing the game. was driving me berseck

Updated game. updated steam (Nov, 21st). launch game. Perfect play...for the moment!

benn playing today a lot. no worries.

I'll keep you all posted

I also did what moderator suggested. downgraded internet connection to 768 or similar number. I have XP /SP2

HateThat
11-22-2008, 11:47 AM
The Wildcard is right, could people please read what this thread is about before posting irrelevant issues here. It's simply steam disconnecting and reconnecting.

Oddly enough the problem seemed fixed for me up until two days ago when it flared up again. Just to say i went over to someone else's house and tried Left 4 Dead on their connection and it was working perfectly. No disconnect from steam or anything. Then the second i got back home with my pc it was back with a vengence.

He has a different ISP to mine and a 10 times faster connection, with a simple router/hub - no firewall etc... So i dont know, just thought that would be relevant.

Still haven't got a response from steam about this issue, so im still holding out and will post once i receive reply/update on the issue. In the meantime i hope someone fixes this because i really want to play Left 4 Dead. Fantastic game....

ClivePwen
11-22-2008, 03:19 PM
Has everyone filed a ticket?

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-22-2008, 03:26 PM
HateThat - is there a chance you could take your machine over to your friends house and see if you still have the problem on his network?

I would be good to eliminate the ISP / network as a contributing cause.

Something you all can also do is get ping plotter and set it to run to your ISP IP address on 10 second intervals. It doesn't take a lot of resources so let it run for a day or three and see what happens to the plot (if anything) when this problem occurs.

http://www.pingplotter.com

I'm not seeing anyone having this problem on any other source games so I have a suspicion that this is uniquely associated with matchmaking.

One thing to try also is turn off friends and disable in-game steam community (steam > settings > in game) and see if that changes the symptoms for you.

maGs
11-22-2008, 05:31 PM
I think it's worth noting that in my case I have had this problem since day one of Left 4 Dead Demo being released. No update to steam, or Left 4 Dead itself has made this game playable at any point in time.

This has been an ongoing situation for me....

Sv-z
11-22-2008, 11:24 PM
Anybody got a fix for this crap losing connection to game and killing my internet connection? Getting very frustrated!

Just for info, people whose internet connection got killed(LAN connection is fine), I fixed my problem with a new router. But you can only attribute the problem to router if connecting to modem directly would solve your problem, otherwise I suspect it has somehing to do with modem or ISP.

Valve is the one who starts all these, maybe a piece of code that open a can of worm, well for some people. Like maGs, I too got that problem since playing L4D demo on day one(on certain online modes), and subsequently in Steam.

I second qUiCkSiLvEr's suggest, take the computer to someone's home that doesn't have the problem for test, or do a clean install on another computer for test.

ClivePwen
11-23-2008, 12:30 AM
SV-Z raises an important point.

I had steam installed on a laptop as well, and hadn't thought of trying it. Needless to say, I was still frequently disconnected through both my router and a direct connection to my cable modem.

My ISP is comcast, and I'm not sure if I have an old modem or not (I don't believe I do).

I'll report back to the thread and see if it's different with a different ISP/Cable modem

HateThat
11-23-2008, 10:14 AM
Well i have 3 mates who have all come to my house and connected to my connection and played Left 4 Dead. They all had the same problem just like me and it happened at the exact same time also. "Disconnected from Steam". I have said this before on other posts that i HAVE ALREADY gone to one of their houses to try out THEIR connection and my game worked flawlessly. No "Disconnected from Steam". Well tbh, it happened once. But that's once in about 24 hours. instead of every 2 seconds.....

It could be the biggest coincidence so ya never know.

Kinematic9
11-23-2008, 01:45 PM
Im still having issues, tried 2 different routers, im using comcast.
Perhaps something with ISPs and how steam is set up?

There is absolutely no way to get a refund on a game after release correct?

Brainfreezebob
11-23-2008, 02:09 PM
Im still having issues, tried 2 different routers, im using comcast.
Perhaps something with ISPs and how steam is set up?

There is absolutely no way to get a refund on a game after release correct?

I think we're on to something here. I have the problem, and Comcast is my provider.

TheWildcard
11-23-2008, 02:38 PM
I just did some googling and it seems comcast and my isp cox are/have taken part in a "delaying" of traffic on activities especially during peek hours. They are trying to cutdown on p2p sharing...So the question is could this be the issue? Are these isp's still doing this(the articles were a few months old)? And what can be done if this is the case?

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-23-2008, 03:08 PM
Well i have 3 mates who have all come to my house and connected to my connection and played Left 4 Dead. They all had the same problem just like me and it happened at the exact same time also. "Disconnected from Steam". I have said this before on other posts that i HAVE ALREADY gone to one of their houses to try out THEIR connection and my game worked flawlessly. No "Disconnected from Steam". Well tbh, it happened once. But that's once in about 24 hours. instead of every 2 seconds.....

It could be the biggest coincidence so ya never know.Ahhh then this most certainly (to me) indicates that there is something that is modem specific, line specific or ISP specific that is a contributing factor to this problem.

Get pingplotter as I described above and see if we can track this down to a specific hop.

Bill Lumburgh
11-23-2008, 03:17 PM
Hmmm comcast here too! Still happening but not as frequent!

Brainfreezebob
11-23-2008, 04:26 PM
The problem has been constant for me since Tuesday. One weird thing I've noticed: I can keep track of how many times I connecting/disconnecting by opening a chat box with a friend. It will record every time I get dropped. Weird this is, I never get dropped while I'm not actively working on something inside steam. If I let that chat box just idle in the corner, it won't register a disconnect until I open it to take a look.

Though, now that I think about it, I guess it could just ignore everything when I'm not actively using Steam.

The other weird thing for the Comcast idea is that my Internet use doesn't suffer in any other way. I play online with Xbox and PS3 without issue, and I never notice any problems browsing on my PC.

maGs
11-23-2008, 06:45 PM
I've also got Comcast as my ISP as well... I think we're getting closer to our answer...

The thing is though, why in the world would it only effect Steam friends and nothing else whatsoever?

TheWildcard
11-23-2008, 07:09 PM
HateThat - is there a chance you could take your machine over to your friends house and see if you still have the problem on his network?

I would be good to eliminate the ISP / network as a contributing cause.

Something you all can also do is get ping plotter and set it to run to your ISP IP address on 10 second intervals. It doesn't take a lot of resources so let it run for a day or three and see what happens to the plot (if anything) when this problem occurs.

http://www.pingplotter.com

I'm not seeing anyone having this problem on any other source games so I have a suspicion that this is uniquely associated with matchmaking.

One thing to try also is turn off friends and disable in-game steam community (steam > settings > in game) and see if that changes the symptoms for you.


Well first off I'm sure we have ALL tried disabling friends list in game and signing off. That doesn't work... Thats merely a symptom of what we are seeing. I'm running ping plotter right now since it just started acting up...could play for about an hour. What I'm seeing is at hop 8 of 10 I get 100% pl. At hop 9 and 10 I get about 10% pl. This is running it to steamcommunity.com. Though I suspect hop 8 may be hidden from ping attempts....

Edit- I have a POSSIBLE fix. I haven't done enough testing to confirm this so I'm throwing it out there for your guys to try. When you go to launch your game and you see the loading screen and "syncing" beside the game in the list hit cancel quickly. After syncing clears relaunch the game.

Nebiros3
11-23-2008, 07:42 PM
I have comcast as well. I tried your idea Wildcard and it didn't work for me.

misfitskater6
11-23-2008, 07:44 PM
I've been having this issue for a long time, over a year at least. I got kicked from a L4D game today because of the 'no Steam logon' error, had to do the usual temporary fix of logging out of Steam and back in. This is the first time I've had that error happen in L4D, though it's been a problem with DoD and TF2 for some time now.

I have Comcast, using one of those Motorola Surfboard modems (I think it's kind of old), and a Linksys router. But, I was having this same problem while living somewhere else, same computer, and also Comcast, but a D-Link router. And I haven't ever had issues with internet, Ventrilo, torrents, or anything else, just Steam.

It doesn't happen THAT often, but it's worse in L4D when you and some friends are trying to do an expert run, and you get disconnected halfway through and won't get credit for beating it. :(

TheWildcard
11-23-2008, 08:34 PM
Yeah nebiros I figured that out for myself. It worked once but then it failed all tries after that.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-23-2008, 09:46 PM
I've been having this issue for a long time, over a year at least. I got kicked from a L4D game today because of the 'no Steam logon' error, had to do the usual temporary fix of logging out of Steam and back in. No Steam Logon will happen every few weeks regardless since that's how long a Steam ticket is valid for. You have to log out and back in occasionally to renew the ticket.

No Steam Logon has nothing to do with the problem in this thread however.

TheWildcard
11-23-2008, 10:18 PM
No Steam Logon will happen every few weeks regardless since that's how long a Steam ticket is valid for. You have to log out and back in occasionally to renew the ticket.

No Steam Logon has nothing to do with the problem in this thread however.

actually we are getting the "you must log in to steam" screen when we get into game sometimes. Its when the friends list disconnects and so on.

_skoll
11-24-2008, 11:07 AM
I dont know if this helps, but when the friends list is active, i cannot see the "last online:....." part like usually, it just says they are offline.

the friends list seems to run a cycle of 20 seconds online, 10 seconds offline.

Steam cloud happened to be released at the same time as this problem started occuring, coincidence?
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=742942

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-24-2008, 01:00 PM
One of the first things I did was disable the Steam Cloud since it's just one more variable, but enabling it doesn't appear to cause any symptoms on my systems.

I have a few network related things always disabled on all of my systems that might cause problems for players.

For XP PRO:
-----------
If you go to network properties (control panel > network connections) , in the network connection properties for your active TCP connection, the only thing you really need checked is the TCP/IP Internet Protocol, I always uncheck everything else (but especially QoS).

In network related services (control panel > administrative tools > services), I always disable:

Application Layer Gateway (ALG) (not needed since SP2)
IPSEC Services
QoS RSVP
Remote Registry
Routing and Remote Access
SSDP Discovery
TCP/IP NetBios Helper
Universal Plug and Play Device Host (UPNP)
Wireless Zero

None of these things should be doing anything anyway. For Wireless Zero, you'll get better service using the discovery app included with the wireless nic if you use one - note that wireless nics can cause lag or disconnects on a one-minute interval.

For Vista:
----------
Control panel > network and sharing center > Manage network connections > properties for your active connection (right-click)
uncheck everything but TCP/IPV4

I don't recommend playing directly with services in Vista, uncheck the wrong thing and Vista will blow up but for those who want to know, I have these services disabled on my Vista system:

Application Layer Gateway (ALG)
Internet Connection Sharing (ICS)
Ipsec
Net.Tcp port sharing Protocol
Peer Name Resolution Service
Peer Networking Grouping
Peer Networking Identity manager
PnP-X IP Bus Enumerator
PRNP Machine Name Publication Service
Remote Regisrty
Routing and Remote Access
SSDP Discovery
TCP/IP NetBios Helper
uPnP Device Host

... I also have all the Window Media Center services disabled but I don't use those and you might.

Please note that this is a diagnostic step only, and only if you are having problems. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Please report if changing these settings changes your symptoms.

Sly-Fox
11-24-2008, 01:24 PM
Well it's not hardware related as far as I know. I just got dumped out of a L4D game with a message that the server was going down.

Not true it turns out. just my Steam playing silly buggers. Never had this issue before at all, just now.

Friends network signs in intermittently, but now won't sign in at all. L4D won't load unless I restart steam, then informs me that my friends (who are online) are not playing joinable games; then the friends network goes down again. Try quitting out of L4D and rejoining (if the connection to the friends network works), but L4D won't load at all. Restart Steam again, repeat ad nauseum.

I also once got the message, "L4D cannot sync your settings with the Steam cloud" - which is about right, as that is turned off for L4D. And also "This game is currently unavailable. Please try again at another time".

I didn't change any of my hardware mid-game, so something is upon the Steam end it would seem.

Anyone shed any light on it yet?

Nebiros3
11-24-2008, 01:45 PM
Quicksilver- I followed your instructions and unfortunatly I am still getting the same symptoms. Thank you for spending the time to help us troubleshoot this issue.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-24-2008, 01:52 PM
Quicksilver- I followed your instructions and unfortunatly I am still getting the same symptoms. Thank you for spending the time to help us troubleshoot this issue.Ahh argh well it was just a possibility, best to try and eliminate things (we'll probably arrive at the cliff edge completely naked before this is over!).

HateThat
11-24-2008, 01:54 PM
ok so i got steam support to get back to me, but they have tried to dismiss me and link me to a different forums where it tells me how to configure a router. The response seems automated so i dont think they're taking us seriously.

I doubt they'll be helping with this cause it seems ISP related. I know that Left 4 Dead is the only game the this happens to, but from my troublshooting and experience with this problem i have deduced it must be our connections.

I know yous don't want to hear this but i think it's time to get a new ISP lads. I know yous are looking for the quick fix on here but it seems like you'll just have to put up with it.

One more thing though, i was playing earlier without a single hitch when i joined a hosted "Friends Only" match. Then my friend turned it public, everybody joined and off we went. No problems. But when i try to host or try a LAN on my connection it wont work at all. "Disconnect from Steam" etc etc....

_skoll
11-24-2008, 04:10 PM
My friends with the same ISP than me are not getting this error, im very doubtful about this being a isp side problem when most of us started to get this problem right when l4d demo expired.

Nebiros3
11-24-2008, 04:40 PM
My friends with the same ISP than me are not getting this error, im very doubtful about this being a isp side problem when most of us started to get this problem right when l4d demo expired.

But do you have Comcast? Not everyone with Comcast has this issue. However everyone with this issue, so far, has had Comcast. For all we know it could be certain area's that interfer with Steam. But so far Comcast is the only common thread for this problem. We need to know why certain Comcast customers get this issue.

Sly-Fox
11-24-2008, 04:48 PM
However everyone with this issue, so far, has had Comcast.

Not me mate. L4D worked fine for the last two days, then just this evening (24th, UK time) I get dumped off, and experience most of the symptoms mentioned here. It's worked before with my ISP, before with my hardware setup and before with my software setup. Something changed all of a sudden, mid-game which has me unable to stay logged into the friends network or start L4D reliably.

Nuts I say! :)

idunn
11-24-2008, 04:56 PM
A friend of mine is having the same/simular problem. He purchased L4D last night, he can't even download the game. He gets around 10% and his connection resets. He has tried almost everything everyone has posted thus far, still no luck. He does NOT have comcast.

Nebiros3
11-24-2008, 05:42 PM
Not me mate. L4D worked fine for the last two days, then just this evening (24th, UK time) I get dumped off, and experience most of the symptoms mentioned here. It's worked before with my ISP, before with my hardware setup and before with my software setup. Something changed all of a sudden, mid-game which has me unable to stay logged into the friends network or start L4D reliably.

Nuts I say! :)

Well that sucks. Maybe the two ISP's have something in common? I don't know and its driving me crazy...:confused:

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-24-2008, 05:57 PM
Well the next step would probably be if one or more of you have wireshark you can capture some of the traffic so it can be analyzed.

I think we should keep the "can't install" problems and logon problems separate from the "connects/disconnects when playing" problems.

Turn off everything that isn't needed including friends and steamcloud, only have Steam and l4d running, capture up to the point where you see the problem then stop immediately.

If you can bypass the router as well that would remove one more variable (assuming it's separate from the modem) but it's ok if you can't.

Just to simplify things further, let's only look at Vista systems on comcast cable for now, and limit things to a very recent (since L4D demo) timeline.

We also only want to look at L4D exclusive problems, not if you've been having problems in other games as well.

You might want to run L4D with -condebug and save the console log so that information can be used too.

idunn
11-24-2008, 06:39 PM
I don't know if this is irrelevant or not... but he is able to download L4D while another game is downloading as well without disconnecting.(before, he tried at least 20 times and it wouldnt get past 10% without disconnecting. he is at 90% right now)

Kinematic9
11-24-2008, 09:52 PM
So howcome I can play Left 4 dead on my network on Xbox Live with no problems at all, yet the PC version on the very same network has this massive problem? Yes, its a seperate platform, but doesn't that narrow it down pretty much to something Valve has to fix?

And the voluenteer mod is very nice to try and help us with this, but why the F hasn't there been some sort of official help from Valve? This is absolutely rediculous, I have not been able to finish a full 'movie' online without disconnecting from Steam since the release date.

HateThat
11-25-2008, 03:01 AM
Just to say this thread was started by mags when the demo was out. This was originally a demo problem and the full game inherited it in my case. And also my ISP is Irish Broadband (live in Ireland), so i dont have Comcast either but am still getting the problem. What type of connections do yous have? 2MB? 8MB? 10? 12? 20? Because it may be the speed of the connection.

I have a 2MB connection.

Sly-Fox
11-25-2008, 03:15 AM
I have a 2MB connection.

8meg using Orange in the UK. Seriously now, it can't be a router issue as nothing with the router has altered in the last 24 hours. L4D and the friends network both worked fine before about 11pm yesterday (GMT); then all of a sudden it all went haywire. Nothing to do with my PC changed, my ISP is the same, the router remains steadfastdly the same router with the same config that happily played L4D two days ago.

The only place that something could have possibly have changed is somewhere on the Steam network, as it's the only alterable variable in my conundrum at least.

Thanks for trying to lend a hand though, could do with a bit of input from someone paid to handle these problems about now. :)

_skoll
11-25-2008, 03:34 AM
I do not know what changed, but today when i woke up, friends actually stayed connected and i could join an online game for the 1st time. I didnt change anything in my system. Time will tell how long this will work

Sly-Fox
11-25-2008, 05:32 AM
It would appear that my issues have miraculously resolved themselves over the course of the night, not unlike _skoll.

We'll see if this little irritation crops up again.

HateThat
11-25-2008, 06:15 AM
yes mine too has cleared up for now... i can get into games and stay on green bars(connection) throughout. hopefully this keeps up.

Brainfreezebob
11-25-2008, 09:10 AM
Still sucks for me. Logged on, opened an IM with the nearest person on my friends list, and within 40 seconds I got this:


Lost connection to Steam, will rejoin chat automatically when connection regained.
>f7>Glock in my Pock is now Offline.
Connected again and rejoined chat.
>f7>Glock in my Pock is now Online.
Lost connection to Steam, will rejoin chat automatically when connection regained.
>f7>Glock in my Pock is now Offline.
Connected again and rejoined chat.
>f7>Glock in my Pock is now Online.
Lost connection to Steam, will rejoin chat automatically when connection regained.
>f7>Glock in my Pock is now Offline.
Connected again and rejoined chat.
>f7>Glock in my Pock is now Online.

However, I could fire up Left 4 Dead right now on my Xbox and play for hours. I could stream a Netlfix movie in hi def. It's just Steam.

Kinematic9
11-25-2008, 11:06 AM
Still sucks for me.

However, I could fire up Left 4 Dead right now on my Xbox and play for hours. I could stream a Netlfix movie in hi def. It's just Steam.

/agree 150%

Nebiros3
11-25-2008, 11:13 AM
Its still happening to me. :mad: It has to be steam reacting with our ISP. I am tempted to go to Valve HQ and give them an angry rant!

Kinematic9
11-25-2008, 11:15 AM
This will never be addressed, nothing will be fixed, and the ones having the problems are screwed out of 50 bucks. I hate to be so negative and Id like to just shut up and play this game (and enjoy it), but alas, we are spending more time on the forums than in the game because this doesnt work.

Nebiros3
11-25-2008, 12:36 PM
I will keep this thread going for ten years if that's what it takes!

maGs
11-25-2008, 05:33 PM
No change here at all. Same problem as day number one of the demo....

Honestly, if all of a sudden you're game is working and you're not getting any issues, then chances are you never really had the problem which I was originally creating this post for.

It seems like every time a patch comes out new people say the game works, and for others it breaks, but this issue has never changed at all since the Left 4 Dead demo was released. The exact problem that occurred then is occurring now and nothing has changed whatsoever.

Kinematic9
11-26-2008, 09:21 AM
Still no response on my extremely detailed Steam ticket. Good service for the 90+ dollars i spent on 2 unplayable copies of this game.. and problem is as worse as ever

Sankamania
11-26-2008, 10:16 AM
I have the same issue !! What do the support STEAM ???????

quadomatic
11-26-2008, 10:18 AM
I'm having this problem. I have AT&T BTW, 6MB DSL

I lowered the download rate in steam settings to 768, used steam rate lock thing, and it still has the same problem. After about 2 minutes or so of playing, it gets disconnected and has to retry, every 2 minutes or so. This is driving me mad.

I feel so ripped off.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-26-2008, 11:11 AM
Please post exactly what modems and routers you are using if you have this connecting / disconnecting problem.

Assuming (for the moment) the ISP itself is not the problem and you don't have this problem on other Source games then it must be the modem and/or router at this point.

Kinematic9
11-26-2008, 11:22 AM
Please post exactly what modems and routers you are using if you have this connecting / disconnecting problem.

Assuming (for the moment) the ISP itself is not the problem and you don't have this problem on other Source games then it must be the modem and/or router at this point.


Thanks for all the help man, but I strongly disagree, this problem ONLY exists with steam games/service. This problem does not happen with any other game/service for all of us. STEAM/VALVE should be addressing this problem, we should not have to jump through hoops and buy new routers and get new ISPs because the service that valve provides to paying customers does not work.

Im all for buying new equipment, blaming ISPs if i am having problems across the board, but comon, this is a STEAM problem, hands down. Ive done every step you have recommended, ive even dropped down to DSL 256, same thing is happening. This is a load of crap (not your fault, we know this), and the fact that it is being ignored is even worse.

Its not US, its Steam. Im sure most if not all others having this problem would agree.

quadomatic
11-26-2008, 11:26 AM
I don't have this problem with other Source games. Just Left 4 Dead.

I lowered the speed in download to 256 from 768, and the problem lessened significantly.

Kinematic9
11-26-2008, 11:28 AM
Maybe we should all try using 56k dial up.

Nebiros3
11-26-2008, 11:37 AM
I completly agree that this is a Steam problem. Even if my ISP triggers it, Only Steam reacts. Either Valve fixes it or they give me info required to get my ISP to fix it.

quadomatic
11-26-2008, 11:42 AM
How is it that Valve hasn't looked into this yet...

BurtonJ
11-26-2008, 12:09 PM
Hello,

We are currently looking into this issue and apologize for any inconvenience.

Please submit a Support Ticket and provide connection_log.txt file that is in the "logs" folder of your main Steam directory.

Once you have submitted a ticket, PM me your 12 character incident reference number (1234-ABCD-1234).

Also, try the following:
- Open a command prompt (Start -> Run -> cmd)
- Type ping -f -n 1 -l 1500 72.165.61.185

You should see:
"Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set."

That's good, that's what it should say.

Next, try it again but change the 1500 to 500. That should work, saying something like this:

"Reply from 72.165.61.185: bytes=500 time 75 ms TTL=128"

See if you can find the largest value of that number that does not give you the "Packet needs to be fragmented..." message.

quadomatic
11-26-2008, 12:57 PM
Hello,

We are currently looking into this issue and apologize for any inconvenience.

Please submit a Support Ticket and provide connection_log.txt file that is in the "logs" folder of your main Steam directory.

Once you have submitted a ticket, PM me your 12 character incident reference number (1234-ABCD-1234).

Also, try the following:
- Open a command prompt (Start -> Run -> cmd)
- Type ping -f -n 1 -l 1500 72.165.61.185

You should see:
"Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set."

That's good, that's what it should say.

Next, try it again but change the 1500 to 500. That should work, saying something like this:

"Reply from 72.165.61.185: bytes=500 time 75 ms TTL=128"

See if you can find the largest value of that number that does not give you the "Packet needs to be fragmented..." message.

YGPM

The highest value I could use was 1464

Isn't that testing the same thing that quicksilver's MTU test does?

Vista automatically sets MTU to 1500 right? Should I lower it to 1492 (1464+28) or to 1464, or not lower it at all?

quadomatic
11-26-2008, 01:56 PM
I lowered MTU again to 1464, and I had to retry to connect about 5 times. So, it definitely doesn't look like the problem is related to MTU on my end.

Also, it appears to take about the same time to reconnect every time. I think once it was 4.6, then 4.8, then 4.7 (as in, that's what the counter read).

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-26-2008, 04:06 PM
YGPM
The highest value I could use was 1464

Isn't that testing the same thing that quicksilver's MTU test does?

Vista automatically sets MTU to 1500 right? Should I lower it to 1492 (1464+28) or to 1464, or not lower it at all?This is the same as my MTU test: http://qsextreme.com/mtutest but it probably would only aggravate things if it was set wrong, not create the symptoms everyone is seeing.

The word on the street is that we should leave Vista network settings alone.

My purpose in asking about everyone's hardware is to see if there is a particular mfg or model that the problems are clustering around.

We had something like this happen a few years ago with Actiontec modems that had incredibly poor firmware and no support at all from Actiontec.

In this case, the scenario here is that there are thousands of servers, 10's of thousands of clients each with hundreds or thousands of friends and thousands of steam groups all interacting with each other via the matchmaking process (and the master and matchmaking servers), truly a unique situation with L4D.

All that interaction could invoke a great deal of bi-directional traffic to each client when he/she runs the game and it might overload marginal network appliances.

This is one of the reasons I've been so concerned with the Steam and game rate settings.

The worst-case situation at the moment appears to be where users have higher-speed internet connections (as we've seen here). Comcast connections may only be having problems because cable can be so very fast and that might overload modems/routers much moreso then slower DSL connections like I have (1.5M/320K).

I haven't heard of anyone with FIOS or other leading edge network connections having these problems, but they also will have new hardware that can handle the traffic.

By analogy, a big pipe feeding a small bucket is more likely to overflow or underflow then a small pipe is.

maGs
11-26-2008, 06:31 PM
For reference sake I have Comcast as my ISP and my modem is a:

Motorola SB4220 Surfboard Cable Modem

quadomatic
11-26-2008, 08:29 PM
I have AT&T and my router+modem is the 2Wire router they gave me.

I could definitely believe that it's being overloaded by the traffic. Hell, it got overloaded by the Counter-Strike: Source server browser.

Should I just pick up a new router?

HateThat
11-27-2008, 05:00 AM
The highest value that i can get from the test Valve said to do is 1472. And my Router is a NETGEAR router and my ISP is irish Broadband 2MB (I'm Irish :)). Valvle got back to my ticket also saying to turn off all start up programs and everything and just run steam. (only a temporary measure to find out the problem) not sure if it'll do anything because it is steam not any of my other programs.

Sv-z
11-27-2008, 11:05 AM
I don't have the random disc/con problem, the highest I can set is 1472, same as HateThat.

If going by the overloading theory, my old router was said to be overloaded, when accessing Quick Match, Steam Group games, and sometimes Steam community in Steam client, it kills my old router's connection to Internet.

For ref, I have 2M/512K ADSL, the new router is D-Link DIR-655.

Sankamania
11-27-2008, 12:29 PM
Hello, sorry my english is bad ...

Disabled the Stateful Packet Inspection (SPI) on you're Routeur/Modem Firewall ...

TheWildcard
11-27-2008, 04:26 PM
For reference sake I have Comcast as my ISP and my modem is a:

Motorola SB4220 Surfboard Cable Modem

Interesting I have a motorola SB4100 surfboard...

HateThat
11-28-2008, 06:35 AM
bump bump bump

Nebiros3
11-28-2008, 10:43 AM
Highest value I could get for the test was 1472.

quadomatic
11-28-2008, 06:04 PM
So, has this been fixed or is everyone busy eating turkey?

maGs
11-28-2008, 07:42 PM
Nope, it has in no way been fixed, and I don't think we are close to a resolution yet, tbh.

mcrat
11-28-2008, 07:50 PM
Got a mate who bought the game today and he's having this problem of Steam dropping out, and losing his connection to the lobby/game.

However this is only happening when I try and join his game, or he tries to join mine (Steam Friends). He can create pub games, he can join pub games. If he creates a pub game, and I join it, he drops out.

We can play TF2 together fine though (or at least we could before L4D came out, haven't tried since, but shall do at some point and report back) - this problem is isolated to L4D.

Hopefully this fix can come soon, but seeing as the thread has been open for over 2 weeks, seems like it's proving to be a hard issue to nail down.

HateThat
11-29-2008, 12:34 PM
We need to keep this topic alive, its getting dropped down this forum and i aint likin it. This should be the priority right now as people actually cant play this game at all because of this. Valve are asking me to config my pc so that no other program is present on the pc so they'll know that it is not other programs messing it up. But i'm reluctant to try it as im basically 99% sure that it is just a Left 4 Dead problem.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-29-2008, 01:23 PM
If you have a cable modem like a Motorola Surfboard and a separate router (and you have this problem) you can easily test to see if your router is the problem.

Just plug your computer directly into the cable modem and see if you still have a disconnecting problem.

You will probably have to reboot your computer so it will acquire an IP directly from the modem.

For those of you with a combo modem + router, you can try temporarily disabling the firewall in the router if it has one to see if it helps this problem. I'm seeing a significant performance hit in the router bandwidth if the internal firewall is enabled.

quadomatic
11-29-2008, 01:26 PM
It looks like for me at least, the problem might be related to DSL Training Errors. I looked at my connection stats on my router before and after I played Left 4 Dead. I had to retry connection to the server 4 times, and there were 4 DSL Training Errors in that time as well.

It seems like Left 4 Dead may be the sole cause of them as of recently. There have been 197 since the router was reset, but in the last 24 hours, only 4 have occurred.

Also, the ONLY stat that changed after playing Left 4 Dead was that DSL Training Errors stat.

I have a feeling that this router might just be awful.

Nebiros3
11-29-2008, 01:57 PM
I bypassed my router like 2 weeks ago, and cold booted my computer several times.

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-29-2008, 02:21 PM
Nebiros3, send me your msinfo32.nfo report and I'll look at it. PM me for my email.

You can run the report using my qs_toolkit (http://qsextreme.com/qs_toolkit) just right-click on the msinfo32 button.

Kinematic9
11-29-2008, 02:30 PM
This is the same as my MTU test: http://qsextreme.com/mtutest but it probably would only aggravate things if it was set wrong, not create the symptoms everyone is seeing.

The word on the street is that we should leave Vista network settings alone.

My purpose in asking about everyone's hardware is to see if there is a particular mfg or model that the problems are clustering around.

We had something like this happen a few years ago with Actiontec modems that had incredibly poor firmware and no support at all from Actiontec.

In this case, the scenario here is that there are thousands of servers, 10's of thousands of clients each with hundreds or thousands of friends and thousands of steam groups all interacting with each other via the matchmaking process (and the master and matchmaking servers), truly a unique situation with L4D.

All that interaction could invoke a great deal of bi-directional traffic to each client when he/she runs the game and it might overload marginal network appliances.

This is one of the reasons I've been so concerned with the Steam and game rate settings.

The worst-case situation at the moment appears to be where users have higher-speed internet connections (as we've seen here). Comcast connections may only be having problems because cable can be so very fast and that might overload modems/routers much moreso then slower DSL connections like I have (1.5M/320K).

I haven't heard of anyone with FIOS or other leading edge network connections having these problems, but they also will have new hardware that can handle the traffic.

By analogy, a big pipe feeding a small bucket is more likely to overflow or underflow then a small pipe is.

So all the other online gaming we do, that works fine - they know something Valve/Steam doesnt?

Oh still no response from a week old ticket as well. :/

mcrat
11-29-2008, 06:16 PM
We need to keep this topic alive, its getting dropped down this forum and i aint likin it. This should be the priority right now as people actually cant play this game at all because of this.

Yeah I would appreciate a sticky on this one so that it doesn't get forgotten.

I'm sure Valve has people working on this, and that it's a priority, but when people keep seeing the thread disappear it can make them feel that they've been forgotten. Sticky would at least be a visible sign that it is being investigated.

My 2c anyway, I think a sticky would help with peoples concerns... When people pay money for something, and it doesn't work, generally their fuses are a little shorter so this could help with that.

Plus... free bump ;)

Sv-z
11-29-2008, 09:38 PM
Got a mate who bought the game today and he's having this problem of Steam dropping out, and losing his connection to the lobby/game.

However this is only happening when I try and join his game, or he tries to join mine (Steam Friends). He can create pub games, he can join pub games. If he creates a pub game, and I join it, he drops out.

We can play TF2 together fine though (or at least we could before L4D came out, haven't tried since, but shall do at some point and report back) - this problem is isolated to L4D.

Hopefully this fix can come soon, but seeing as the thread has been open for over 2 weeks, seems like it's proving to be a hard issue to nail down.

See if turning Friends offline right after in lobby/game would help.

Kinematic9
11-30-2008, 08:31 AM
See if turning Friends offline right after in lobby/game would help.

I tried that, same difference. Still having issues. Again, this is only happening with Steam and Steam games. ONLY.

HateThat
11-30-2008, 01:49 PM
bumping the living crap out of this

qUiCkSiLvEr
11-30-2008, 05:22 PM
This article is interesting, not saying it's the cause of this problem but if comcast (and other isps) are playing tricks like this there could be collateral damage:

http://text.broadbandreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections WHO: Comcast and Sandvine, a peer-to-peer (P2P) management application,

WHAT: A device that monitors P2P activity and interferes with requests for the peer within Comcast to UPLOAD data (downloads appear to be not affected, uploads within Comcast are not affected, transfers already in progress are not affected, and a small percentage of the new transfer requests are still permitted),

WHERE: On the boundaries, at the point where Comcast connects to other points of the Internet,

WHEN: Earliest evidence is 6 months ago, but use appears to have increased or become more "clamped-down" recently,

WHY: To reduce costs associated with P2P bandwidth growth

HOW IT WORKS:

- The Sandvine application reads packets that are traversing the network boundary

- If the application senses that outbound P2P traffic is higher than a threshold determined by Comcast, Sandvine begins to interrupt P2P protocol sequences that would initiate a new transfer from within the Comcast network to a peer outside of the Comcast network

- The interruption is accomplished by sending a perfectly forged TCP packet (correct peer, port, and sequence numbering) with the RST (reset) flag set. This packet is obeyed by the network stack or operating system which drops the connection.If you are using any P2P applications (some games use this also) they might cause problems when playing other games.

Bounty_Bam
11-30-2008, 05:32 PM
My steam keep shutting down completely, in game or out. And it keeps disconnecting my wireless (didn't know that was steam until i read in here)

Screw L4D now..

maGs
11-30-2008, 07:24 PM
This article is interesting, not saying it's the cause of this problem but if comcast (and other isps) are playing tricks like this there could be collateral damage:

http://text.broadbandreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections If you are using any P2P applications (some games use this also) they might cause problems when playing other games.

I know about this whole thing but to be honest I find it somewhat hard to believe this is the issue considering it only started the day that the Left 4 Dead demo was released.

Not to mention I have no issues connecting and playing other Steam games, or any online games for that matter, consistently.

cetaNu
11-30-2008, 11:17 PM
This constant connection problem is shutting my Friends list on and off

this is my problem also, i dont own l4d however

mcrat
12-01-2008, 01:16 AM
My mate finally got it working.. was an issue with ports and his router. I think he found a list of ports that Steam can use and went in and made sure they were all open. After that, presto, all good.

Nebiros3
12-01-2008, 09:34 AM
Well its not my router cause I bypassed it already. Issue NOT resolved!

Nicoleisen
12-01-2008, 09:58 AM
Hello .

I'm new here, this'll be my first post. I'll try to make it as usefull as I can, however you must forgive me, as being consise isn't one of my major strengths. I'm a detailed person :D

First of all, thanks to QuickSilver, for the continuous help and support. :)

=====

I'm having the same problems as stated here :

I usually find myself being disconnected from a game, at any point (spawning, through level, etc). Never in loading though. I'm being told this happens with various reasons :
-Server shut down
-Server Timed out
-Client Timed out

Sometimes, it'll "just" show the warning, where it freezes and shows the menu, and attempts to reason with me, that I have to wait for the server to reply within time.

The strange thing is, I'm playing with a friend who experiences these issues too, but alot less than me. And it seems the game always blames the counterpart?! E.g. in one instance, where I'm hosting, I get "Client Timed out" and she gets "Server Shut Down". The server disappears, but to both of us, it looks like a problem at the other end.

We've tried hosting dedicated, hosting local and also joining random peoples dedicated games. No matter who's hosting/leading or how, I always get disconnected alot. I've had one reasonable online game so far.

The interval varies. It can be as little as 2 seconds after loading is complete, and up to about half an hour at best.


My PC is above the requirements - just - but the actual game runs perfectly :

Intel Pentium 4 3,2GHz EMT64 HT
Asus P5B WiFi Deluxe motherboard
2560 MB DDR2 RAM
ASUS Silent 8600GT / 512MB DDR3 VRAM

Windows XP Professional 32Bit, all drivers and directX updated (Steam has no complaints when launching the game either)

My internet line should be capable enough as well.

Rated at ISP : 7192Kbits/s // 2048 Kbits/s
Rated at modem : 7152Kbits/s // 1952 Kbits/s
Speedtest.net : 6120Kbits/s // 1912 Kbits/s

My ISP is Cybercity ADSL. I use a ZyXel router that they delivered, which haven't given me any grief. I'm hardwired to it, via a tested and documented Cat5e network installation. I never experience local or wide area drop outs, slowdowns or the likes.


In other words, with the amount of different variables here, as well as else where on the net (this is a popular issue), I think it's safe to conclude that this problem is :
- NOT related to ISPs
- NOT related to routers
- NOT related to hardware
- NOT related to Operating Systems
- NOT related to peoples countries or homes or friends homes
- MOST LIKELY related to the only two common factors mentioned here : Steam and Left 4 Dead. Especially as people don't experience problems with any other products at the same time. After all, even if some ISPs doesn't support the way the game works, then clearly something is wrong with the game. After all, it's not the job of every ISP in the world to adapt to one game.

This is the only Steam game I own, so I'm unable to test other Steam games. If this problem isn't fixed within reasonable time, it will also be the last Steam game I own.

What did I try to do to help it?
- Temporarely disabled everything but Windows Firewall : No change
- Read this (https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9828-SFLZ-9289), and tried disabling ALL processes but vital system processes, Steam and L4D.exe : No change
- Forwarded the range 26999-27051 everywhere, both protocols, in- and outgoing, according to this (https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=1456-EUDN-2493). : No change
- Lowering download rate in Steam : No change
- Shouting : Got a soar throat
- Considering suicide. : Decided it wasn't worth it

I don't know how to find the proper log files, because Steam uses a (sorry) stupid way of installing the games, it seems. I was never asked where to loose xGB harddrive space, and I can't seem to find the actual game files, which renders me sorta unable to locate logs and the likes. I might have misunderstood the way it works though.

If someone can explain to me, what to do to gather some relevant logging, I'll be happy to help pinpointing the issue, as I don't have to 'provoke' it. Quite on the contrary, it's practically always there.


===== I'll also be kind and hand you a HUGE hint towards why there are problems with this :

In some research I did prior to looking here, I found that it seems to be related to a steam update. Maybe steam should look at what that update specifically changed, and possible change it back, or modify the changes?

First post of this thread (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/left4dead/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-46630664&pid=937406), user states a patch "should have fixed it, but didnt"

First post of this thread (http://left4deadforums.com/1047-hosting-demo-friend-causes-internet-disconnect.html) refers directly to the problem occuring just after an update to Steam.

I happen to know some people, who tried making multiplayer work though various methods in the demo. Some of them tried something called Hamachi, a VPN client, that I use for playing old games, that will allow only dedicated servers or lan servers, and not peer2peer.

From what I understand from these people, using Hamachi was possible with L4D demo, up untill a point in time, when suddenly it required Steam to be verified or something to that affect. That coincides with the beforementioned update, which I had not told these people about.

So what I'm thinking about the problem here is : To prevent pirated versions from playing, you rule out any alternative of playing the game, than Steam - where you have to register your CD key with your profile. Good thinking. But it was probably coded way too agressively, hence interfering with connections of proper players who bought the game.


I also think, that if this problem isn't fixed, this will end up being another one of those miserable stories, about how a pirated game will work due to some hack, whilst a purchased game wont. And as long as that happens, the general gaming industri shouldn't complain about pirated software, in my humble opinion. I don't download stuff myself, but I am truly ***sed off, when a friend of mine with a downloaded game can run it, whilst I have to spend hours talking to support.

Anyhow, I hope this helps somewhat.

Bounty_Bam
12-01-2008, 12:07 PM
This still not sorted then? Why don't steam stop making games, and sort out the ♥♥♥♥ thats NEEDED to play the game :/ Well I was going to buy Left 4 Dead today... you must be joking.

FearTX
12-01-2008, 12:27 PM
This has been an issue for me for quite some time now. It happened with one of the Steam/TF2 updates some 6 months ago. It has never really been an issue because i could just set friends list to Offline status and play TF2 with no problems. It is a serious issue with L4D.

Some things i have done to try and fix this from my end.

New router - check
Port forwarding - check
Yell at the new ISP - check
Make the new ISP change my modem (3times) - check
Reinstall windows - check
Stop playing any steam games for a month from frustration - check
upgrade my cable service - check i now get 18 down and 4 up


This happens with or without router, i am not running a firewall asides from what is in the router. i am not running one of the virus programs that are known to cause issues with steam /source games.

The level of frustration is increasing. I run a gaming clan, we have several servers, encourage all friends to buy these broken games from Valve, we really play Valve games almost exclusively... Except for a few third party games i bought through Steam.

I do not know that valve is taking this seriously or not.

You have my money, I want my games to work, if you cant sort this out then remove the ****ing requirement for the Friends list to have a constant connection.

maGs
12-01-2008, 05:36 PM
This has been an issue for me for quite some time now. It happened with one of the Steam/TF2 updates some 6 months ago. It has never really been an issue because i could just set friends list to Offline status and play TF2 with no problems. It is a serious issue with L4D.

Some things i have done to try and fix this from my end.

New router - check
Port forwarding - check
Yell at the new ISP - check
Make the new ISP change my modem (3times) - check
Reinstall windows - check
Stop playing any steam games for a month from frustration - check
upgrade my cable service - check i now get 18 down and 4 up


This happens with or without router, i am not running a firewall asides from what is in the router. i am not running one of the virus programs that are known to cause issues with steam /source games.

The level of frustration is increasing. I run a gaming clan, we have several servers, encourage all friends to buy these broken games from Valve, we really play Valve games almost exclusively... Except for a few third party games i bought through Steam.

I do not know that valve is taking this seriously or not.

You have my money, I want my games to work, if you cant sort this out then remove the ****ing requirement for the Friends list to have a constant connection.

I'm going to say that no, they aren't taking this issue seriously. We have all sent in tickets, many of which have gone unanswered. Apparently they think this is simply a problem a minority of their player base is experiencing and is therefore putting us on the back burner...

FearTX
12-02-2008, 05:48 AM
Bump!
Valve?
HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Kinematic9
12-02-2008, 07:41 AM
To some newcomers, in case you missed it, check page 12 where BurtonJ advises to PM some information to him regarding your ticket. Ive had a ticket in for roughly 2 weeks now, with no response - still really unable to enjoy L4D purchase.. but at least I can say ive done everything on my end to attempt to fix this.

Very upset with the way we are being treated as paying customers having MAJOR issues.

seekrtz
12-02-2008, 08:26 AM
Port forwarding seems to be a term everyone is throwing around these days. Too bad no one in this thread seems to know what it actually means. Client side does not use port mapping. This is for running servers within private NAT'd internal networks to allow outside connections to get through.

Nicoleisen
12-02-2008, 08:27 AM
I saw that (I read the entire thread before making a user to reply.).

I haven't submitted a support ticket yet though. If steam cared the least bit, they could just keep watch of this thread. I hate submitting support tickets these days because I have to upload this and that in order to even submit the problem, just be to ignored or get some idiotic autoreply.

This goes for UbiSoft, Take 2 and apparently also Steam. I just think it's emmensely sad that no software company actually makes an efford out of support. If people knew the games where good (As they are today), AND that support was spotless (Which it isn't today), then I think ALOT more would be buying, rather than downloading.

E.g. I had a game, that failed to work no matter how I did stuff. Support gave me an irratic autoreply, and then ignored my later reply. The product was useless, untill a friend sent me some kind of crack. I checked the local laws, and I was allowed to crack it, as long as I had proof of purchase of the original product. So I did - and it worked! The issue wasn't related to the CD not being read, not even remotely, yet the crack fixed the issue.

Stuff like that is like a TV ad saying "Don't buy! Download!" to the gaming community, and someone should take that alot more seriously, if they'd like to continue to sell games.

FearTX
12-02-2008, 10:47 AM
I did read the whole thread, I did submit a support ticket and forwarded my connection logs. Today i was able to play through two whole campaigns online, it a a rare occurrence hopefully it continues.

I read through the connection logs. I have no idea what to make of it though.

A whole lot of...

ConnectionDisconnected('I/O Operation Failed') :

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-02-2008, 04:24 PM
something you can do is to run a command prompt and type in:

netstat -s

Copy and paste what you see there (attempt to play the game first).

Kinematic9
12-02-2008, 04:26 PM
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6001]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\*****>netstat -s

IPv4 Statistics

Packets Received = 4789988
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 5
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 603
Received Packets Delivered = 4849218
Output Requests = 3550509
Routing Discards = 0
Discarded Output Packets = 6171
Output Packet No Route = 18
Reassembly Required = 147
Reassembly Successful = 69
Reassembly Failures = 69
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 0

IPv6 Statistics

Packets Received = 0
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 0
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 18
Received Packets Delivered = 7335
Output Requests = 7610
Routing Discards = 0
Discarded Output Packets = 0
Output Packet No Route = 0
Reassembly Required = 0
Reassembly Successful = 0
Reassembly Failures = 0
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 0

ICMPv4 Statistics

Received Sent
Messages 1014 381
Errors 0 0
Destination Unreachable 954 377
Time Exceeded 30 0
Parameter Problems 0 0
Source Quenches 4 0
Redirects 22 0
Echo Replies 1 3
Echos 3 1
Timestamps 0 0
Timestamp Replies 0 0
Address Masks 0 0
Address Mask Replies 0 0
Router Solicitations 0 0
Router Advertisements 0 0

ICMPv6 Statistics

Received Sent
Messages 0 20
Errors 0 0
Destination Unreachable 0 0
Packet Too Big 0 0
Time Exceeded 0 0
Parameter Problems 0 0
Echos 0 0
Echo Replies 0 0
MLD Queries 0 0
MLD Reports 0 0
MLD Dones 0 0
Router Solicitations 0 15
Router Advertisements 0 0
Neighbor Solicitations 0 5
Neighbor Advertisements 0 0
Redirects 0 0
Router Renumberings 0 0

TCP Statistics for IPv4

Active Opens = 6724
Passive Opens = 49860
Failed Connection Attempts = 2757
Reset Connections = 5342
Current Connections = 1
Segments Received = 4733537
Segments Sent = 3214095
Segments Retransmitted = 211043

TCP Statistics for IPv6

Active Opens = 46
Passive Opens = 46
Failed Connection Attempts = 0
Reset Connections = 47
Current Connections = 0
Segments Received = 498
Segments Sent = 498
Segments Retransmitted = 0

UDP Statistics for IPv4

Datagrams Received = 112190
No Ports = 589
Receive Errors = 5
Datagrams Sent = 124638

UDP Statistics for IPv6

Datagrams Received = 1408
No Ports = 18
Receive Errors = 0
Datagrams Sent = 6855

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-02-2008, 05:25 PM
That looks interesting there Kinematic9.

Let's simplify things, in your network properties, uncheck everything but the:
"Internet Network Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4)".

Then reboot to reset all the statistics, run Steam and try playing L4D.

These statistics are especially troubling:
IPv4 Statistics
Packets Received = 4789988
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 5
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 603
Received Packets Delivered = 4849218
Output Requests = 3550509
Routing Discards = 0
Discarded Output Packets = 6171
Output Packet No Route = 18
Reassembly Required = 147
Reassembly Successful = 69
Reassembly Failures = 69
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 0

TCP Statistics for IPv4
Active Opens = 6724
Passive Opens = 49860
Failed Connection Attempts = 2757
Reset Connections = 5342
Current Connections = 1
Segments Received = 4733537
Segments Sent = 3214095
Segments Retransmitted = 211043

UDP Statistics for IPv4
Datagrams Received = 112190
No Ports = 589
Receive Errors = 5
Datagrams Sent = 124638

Kinematic9
12-02-2008, 05:33 PM
That looks interesting there Kinematic9.

Let's simplify things, in your network properties, uncheck everything but the:
"Internet Network Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4)".

Then reboot to reset all the statistics, run Steam and try playing L4D.

These statistics are especially troubling:

Sure thing, Ill try that - This was with a lot of network activity going on at the time, do you need a fresh cache of it, right after playing L4D for this to be accurate?

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-02-2008, 06:21 PM
Sure thing, Ill try that - This was with a lot of network activity going on at the time, do you need a fresh cache of it, right after playing L4D for this to be accurate?Lets try and isolate things so don't run anything else but Steam and L4D after rebooting, then do a netstat -s and lets see what is there.

ttman
12-02-2008, 06:36 PM
having connection problems as well.

maGs
12-02-2008, 06:56 PM
Here's my netstat:


Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6001]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

IPv4 Statistics

Packets Received = 1873
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 0
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 182
Received Packets Delivered = 5727
Output Requests = 5476
Routing Discards = 0
Discarded Output Packets = 0
Output Packet No Route = 0
Reassembly Required = 0
Reassembly Successful = 0
Reassembly Failures = 0
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 0

IPv6 Statistics

Packets Received = 0
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 0
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 0
Received Packets Delivered = 60
Output Requests = 87
Routing Discards = 0
Discarded Output Packets = 0
Output Packet No Route = 0
Reassembly Required = 0
Reassembly Successful = 0
Reassembly Failures = 0
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 0

ICMPv4 Statistics

Received Sent
Messages 2 2
Errors 0 0
Destination Unreachable 0 0
Time Exceeded 0 0
Parameter Problems 0 0
Source Quenches 0 0
Redirects 0 0
Echo Replies 2 0
Echos 0 2
Timestamps 0 0
Timestamp Replies 0 0
Address Masks 0 0
Address Mask Replies 0 0
Router Solicitations 0 0
Router Advertisements 0 0

ICMPv6 Statistics

Received Sent
Messages 0 4
Errors 0 0
Destination Unreachable 0 0
Packet Too Big 0 0
Time Exceeded 0 0
Parameter Problems 0 0
Echos 0 0
Echo Replies 0 0
MLD Queries 0 0
MLD Reports 0 0
MLD Dones 0 0
Router Solicitations 0 3
Router Advertisements 0 0
Neighbor Solicitations 0 1
Neighbor Advertisements 0 0
Redirects 0 0
Router Renumberings 0 0

TCP Statistics for IPv4

Active Opens = 146
Passive Opens = 40
Failed Connection Attempts = 9
Reset Connections = 58
Current Connections = 72
Segments Received = 4962
Segments Sent = 4664
Segments Retransmitted = 28

TCP Statistics for IPv6

Active Opens = 0
Passive Opens = 0
Failed Connection Attempts = 0
Reset Connections = 0
Current Connections = 0
Segments Received = 0
Segments Sent = 0
Segments Retransmitted = 0

UDP Statistics for IPv4

Datagrams Received = 648
No Ports = 182
Receive Errors = 0
Datagrams Sent = 846

UDP Statistics for IPv6

Datagrams Received = 14
No Ports = 0
Receive Errors = 0
Datagrams Sent = 60

Nebiros3
12-02-2008, 07:05 PM
Here is my netstat

IPv4 Statistics

Packets Received = 837582
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 0
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 50
Received Packets Discarded = 9322
Received Packets Delivered = 870170
Output Requests = 827021
Routing Discards = 0
Discarded Output Packets = 0
Output Packet No Route = 0
Reassembly Required = 32646
Reassembly Successful = 16323
Reassembly Failures = 16323
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 897
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 1794

IPv6 Statistics

Packets Received = 0
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 0
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 100
Received Packets Delivered = 494
Output Requests = 526
Routing Discards = 0
Discarded Output Packets = 0
Output Packet No Route = 0
Reassembly Required = 0
Reassembly Successful = 0
Reassembly Failures = 0
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 0

ICMPv4 Statistics

Received Sent
Messages 2216 0
Errors 0 0
Destination Unreachable 2101 0
Time Exceeded 75 0
Parameter Problems 0 0
Source Quenches 4 0
Redirects 0 0
Echo Replies 36 0
Echos 0 0
Timestamps 0 0
Timestamp Replies 0 0
Address Masks 0 0
Address Mask Replies 0 0
Router Solicitations 0 0
Router Advertisements 0 0

ICMPv6 Statistics

Received Sent
Messages 0 4
Errors 0 0
Destination Unreachable 0 0
Packet Too Big 0 0
Time Exceeded 0 0
Parameter Problems 0 0
Echos 0 0
Echo Replies 0 0
MLD Queries 0 0
MLD Reports 0 0
MLD Dones 0 0
Router Solicitations 0 3
Router Advertisements 0 0
Neighbor Solicitations 0 1
Neighbor Advertisements 0 0
Redirects 0 0
Router Renumberings 0 0

TCP Statistics for IPv4

Active Opens = 5362
Passive Opens = 23
Failed Connection Attempts = 2411
Reset Connections = 697
Current Connections = 88
Segments Received = 545311
Segments Sent = 466003
Segments Retransmitted = 28834

TCP Statistics for IPv6

Active Opens = 0
Passive Opens = 0
Failed Connection Attempts = 0
Reset Connections = 0
Current Connections = 0
Segments Received = 0
Segments Sent = 0
Segments Retransmitted = 0

UDP Statistics for IPv4

Datagrams Received = 286257
No Ports = 8561
Receive Errors = 546
Datagrams Sent = 331746

UDP Statistics for IPv6

Datagrams Received = 0
No Ports = 0
Receive Errors = 100
Datagrams Sent = 494

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-02-2008, 07:54 PM
maGs, you need to try and run the game to acquire some statistics, do a few serverbrowser updates too.

Nebiros3, you're seeing a lot of UDP and IP errors too.

On my Vista64 (behind a dlink di-604 router) and my XP Pro systems static IP address) I see 0 (zero) UDP errors even after playing L4D for an hour or more and doing several serverbrowser updates.

I think we've at least located a metric that is indicating a result of whatever the problem is.

Here is what I see on my XP Pro system so you can compare:

netstat -s

IPv4 Statistics

Packets Received = 630967
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 0
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 2299
Received Packets Delivered = 628668
Output Requests = 476711
Routing Discards = 0
Discarded Output Packets = 44
Output Packet No Route = 0
Reassembly Required = 0
Reassembly Successful = 0
Reassembly Failures = 0
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 0
Fragments Created = 0

ICMPv4 Statistics
Received Sent
Messages 648 71
Errors 1 0
Destination Unreachable 513 24
Time Exceeded 36 0
Parameter Problems 0 0
Source Quenches 0 0
Redirects 0 0
Echos 47 0
Echo Replies 0 47
Timestamps 0 0
Timestamp Replies 0 0
Address Masks 0 0
Address Mask Replies 0 0

TCP Statistics for IPv4

Active Opens = 2513
Passive Opens = 0
Failed Connection Attempts = 113
Reset Connections = 1645
Current Connections = 0
Segments Received = 41851
Segments Sent = 30893
Segments Retransmitted = 183

UDP Statistics for IPv4

Datagrams Received = 586145
No Ports = 597
Receive Errors = 0
Datagrams Sent = 445580

FearTX
12-03-2008, 09:33 AM
here is my netstats after running the game earlier

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.


IPv4 Statistics

Packets Received = 2639338
Received Header Errors = 0
Received Address Errors = 17
Datagrams Forwarded = 0
Unknown Protocols Received = 0
Received Packets Discarded = 4
Received Packets Delivered = 2639331
Output Requests = 1789837
Routing Discards = 0
Discarded Output Packets = 0
Output Packet No Route = 0
Reassembly Required = 0
Reassembly Successful = 0
Reassembly Failures = 0
Datagrams Successfully Fragmented = 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation = 1
Fragments Created = 0

ICMPv4 Statistics

Received Sent
Messages 42703 139
Errors 0 0
Destination Unreachable 42661 42
Time Exceeded 0 0
Parameter Problems 0 0
Source Quenches 0 0
Redirects 0 0
Echos 10 81
Echo Replies 32 10
Timestamps 0 0
Timestamp Replies 0 0
Address Masks 0 0
Address Mask Replies 0 0

TCP Statistics for IPv4

Active Opens = 7066
Passive Opens = 2491
Failed Connection Attempts = 19
Reset Connections = 1965
Current Connections = 21
Segments Received = 1070224
Segments Sent = 881429
Segments Retransmitted = 11272

UDP Statistics for IPv4

Datagrams Received = 1519834
No Ports = 55808
Receive Errors = 11
Datagrams Sent = 896918

That was after running for two days.

FearTX
12-03-2008, 11:27 AM
The last two days I have been able to play through campaigns and remain connected to servers. Last week I had a 7 down .5 up cable service through earhtlink powered by roadrunner, i upgraded to roadrunner turbo and no longer go through earthlink. it didnt make a difference at first and maybe still hasnt, i dont know.
No disconnects while i was gaming yesterday evening and today. There were a few while i was away from the computer they show up in the Steam messenger windows.


I did a restart and then ran steam and L4D only for an hour then did netstat -s. The values did change there were just fewer of them the over all picture was pretty much the same though.

FearTX
12-04-2008, 06:47 AM
Nebiros3, you're seeing a lot of UDP and IP errors too.

On my Vista64 (behind a dlink di-604 router) and my XP Pro systems static IP address) I see 0 (zero) UDP errors even after playing L4D for an hour or more and doing several serverbrowser updates.

I think we've at least located a metric that is indicating a result of whatever the problem is.

Ok so if this is indicative of something what exactly is that something?

OH YEAH, BBBBBBUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nebiros3
12-04-2008, 09:26 AM
Comcast automatically assigns my ip address so its not just one static ip. Don't know if that makes any difference?

yutt
12-04-2008, 11:06 AM
Just wanted to add myself to the list of people experiencing this problem. It just started occurring over the last few days. I used to be able to play Left 4 Dead and the demo without issue.

I've submitted a ticket already. Please resolve this Valve, it is pretty ♥♥♥♥ing irritating, and made me lose a lot of my joy for Left 4 Dead.

Nebiros3
12-04-2008, 08:51 PM
bump bump bump

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-05-2008, 03:42 AM
I wrote a simple little windows form netstat program that should help us with this problem, you can see pics and download the app here:
http://qsextreme.com/qs_netstat

The app has most of what is in the normal console netstat but it's quite a bit easier to use.

You can set the display to autorefresh, I limited the range from .5 sec to 2 seconds since faster made it harder to control and slower then that you may as well just hit the refresh button manually.

You can also enable a small sound when there are new errors (right-click the panel to get the context menu) and the displayed text will change color briefly for that error. I only have UDPv4 errors hooked up in this version (0.9a) but I'll add in most of the rest over the next couple of days.

Primarily what we're looking for here is how often you get what errors and what you're doing when you get the errors.

I'll add in some simple charting too as soon as I get the rest of the basics finished.

FearTX
12-05-2008, 09:32 AM
And today the problems are back in full force, here is the netstats using quicksilvers windows tool.....


IP Statistics
Packets Received: 336800
Received Header Errors: 0
Received Address Errors: 20
Datagrams Forwarded: 0
Unknown Protocols Received: 0
Received Packets Discarded: 5
Received Packets Delivered: 336794
Output Requests: 196068
Routing Discards: 0
Discarded Output Packets: 0
Output Packets with bad Route Address: 0
Reassembly Required: 0
Reassembly Successful: 0
Reassembly Failures: 0
Datagrams Successfuly Fragmented: 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation: 0
Fragments Created: 0

TCP Statistics
Active Opens: 1679
Passive Opens: 350
Failed Connection Attempts: 35
Reset Connections: 400
Current Connections: 5
Segments Received: 144385
Segments Sent: 108066
Segments Retransmitted: 3689

UDP Statistics
Datagrams Received: 190997
Datagrams Discarded due to port errors: 2119
Receive Errors: 3
Datagrams Sent: 84235

and its the same BS happening from one service provider to another...

Nebiros3
12-05-2008, 09:57 AM
My netstat After about 10 minutes of searching for servers in L4D. Using quicksilver's handy tool.
IP Statistics
Packets Received: 1941
Received Header Errors: 0
Received Address Errors: 0
Datagrams Forwarded: 0
Unknown Protocols Received: 0
Received Packets Discarded: 1569
Received Packets Delivered: 3622
Output Requests: 5829
Routing Discards: 0
Discarded Output Packets: 0
Output Packets with bad Route Address: 0
Reassembly Required: 0
Reassembly Successful: 0
Reassembly Failures: 0
Datagrams Successfuly Fragmented: 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation: 0
Fragments Created: 0

TCP Statistics
Active Opens: 109
Passive Opens: 2
Failed Connection Attempts: 0
Reset Connections: 65
Current Connections: 3
Segments Received: 2139
Segments Sent: 1692
Segments Retransmitted: 515

UDP Statistics
Datagrams Received: 1232
Datagrams Discarded due to port errors: 1502
Receive Errors: 67
Datagrams Sent: 3560

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-05-2008, 03:04 PM
Nebiros3, that's very little udp or tcp traffic, do a few refreshes of the entire Steam server browser list (no filters).

Let me know how many servers you are seeing total and how long it takes.

Nebiros3
12-05-2008, 05:17 PM
This is my TCP Statistics
after four hours on steam.


TCP Statistics
Active Opens: 734
Passive Opens: 1
Failed Connection Attempts: 7
Reset Connections: 388
Current Connections: 10
Segments Received: 54037
Segments Sent: 49498
Segments Retransmitted: 1374

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-05-2008, 05:20 PM
Steam games primarily use UDP so you want to always include IP, TCP and UDP stats.

Nebiros3
12-05-2008, 06:35 PM
Sent you a pm as well.

IP Statistics
Packets Received: 74134
Received Header Errors: 0
Received Address Errors: 0
Datagrams Forwarded: 0
Unknown Protocols Received: 0
Received Packets Discarded: 3821
Received Packets Delivered: 78934
Output Requests: 97417
Routing Discards: 0
Discarded Output Packets: 0
Output Packets with bad Route Address: 1
Reassembly Required: 0
Reassembly Successful: 0
Reassembly Failures: 0
Datagrams Successfuly Fragmented: 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation: 0
Fragments Created: 0

TCP Statistics
Active Opens: 734
Passive Opens: 1
Failed Connection Attempts: 7
Reset Connections: 388
Current Connections: 10
Segments Received: 54037
Segments Sent: 49498
Segments Retransmitted: 1374

UDP Statistics
Datagrams Received: 24363
Datagrams Discarded due to port errors: 3723
Receive Errors: 98
Datagrams Sent: 46362

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-05-2008, 11:33 PM
This is interesting, in Vista 64, every time when L4D executes this event:[L4DUI] CUIGameData::Notify( SYSLINK_SEARCH_COMPLETED, 0, 0)I see this UDP error:UDP Statistics
Datagrams Discarded due to port errorsIn XP XPro I do not get that error however.

The really interesting thing is that I continue to get that error even when I completely disable the NIC heheh.

I get virtually no UDP Receive errors:
UDP Statistics
Receive Errors:on any of my systems playing L4D whereas I'm seeing quite a few of them in postings here.

moosh
12-06-2008, 02:36 PM
I'm having the same issue as everyone else. Wasn't happening before and I think after an older patch it started doing this. The game is virtually unplayable because the interruptions come so often.

Until a solution is available is there a way to downgrade my L4D to when I first bought it? It was working great then.

helloeverbody
12-06-2008, 02:57 PM
well i dont have this game i play counter strike and my freinds list keeps going on and off as well and i cant connect to any server i get to scan for servers when i find a server and try to connect it says server not responding and want connect this is a steam cleint issue not your game they need to fix this i have been playing cs for years and never nothing like this VALVE NEEDS TO FIX THIS

Nicoleisen
12-06-2008, 04:01 PM
This is interesting, in Vista 64, every time when L4D executes this event:I see this UDP error:In XP XPro I do not get that error however.


Hi mate

Thanks for your percistency and time. :)

I haven't tried the tool yet (just bought a car, so I have been slightly busy), but I see that command that you see in the console when searching for servers, as far as I recall.

And a few days ago, the game kinda looped itself with this error. The game had been working for some time, when I got disconnected again, and attempted to rejoin the server :
I used console "openserverbrowser" - worked
I then attempted to join the server - Failed: "Lost connection with session". At the same time the line you mentioned would appear in the console. I pressed my consolebutton to make the console go away, clicked the error promt to get the OKAY button visible, as I couldnt do anything in the serverbrowser, including closing it. Once I clicked the error promt away, server browser disappeared too.

I could then repeat the process and try another server, which would result in the same odd occurances.

Throughout this, the error string you just mentioned kept appearing with roughly 1,5 seconds intervals, along with a few other lines, three or so in total.

Sadly I didnt know about the netstats at that time, nor about the fancy code you wrote or how to extract logs from the console (which I still dont know).

However, the point is, that this happened on an XP pro machine. :)

I then relaunched the game, and it worked normally again.

Nebiros3
12-07-2008, 07:08 PM
It was working this afternoon. I had L4D going all day with fewer errors. Now its getting worse again. Interestingly I get a couple of errors at startup before steam is open. Does that mean my pc has an existing problem that makes Steam do this?

The Connections option on Quicksilver's program shows the UDP addresses like this.
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:123
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:500
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:3702

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-07-2008, 07:32 PM
I occasionally see UDP errors happening when Steam isn't running, the trick it to identify what app or service or activity is causing it.

Those services you have there might be:

Port 123: Network Time Protocol
Port 500: VPN Key Exchange
Port 3702: Web Service Discovery

You can look up reported ports here:
http://isc.sans.org/port.html

Nebiros3
12-07-2008, 08:05 PM
:confused:UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:123
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:500
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:3702
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:3702
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:4500
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:5355
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:27005
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:27015
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:27020
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:49416
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:57072
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:60661
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:1900
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:44301
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:49417
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:50111
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:53929
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:53956
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:60614
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:65028
UDP (None) 192.168.1.101:9
UDP (None) 192.168.1.101:137
UDP (None) 192.168.1.101:138
UDP (None) 192.168.1.101:1900
UDP (None) 192.168.1.101:65027

Should they all say none? I'm confused yet again... And some ports don't show up when I search.

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-07-2008, 11:52 PM
You'll get a lot of different udp ports if you're in a game, the ports aren't really all that important unless you have a virus or trojan or something like P2P running or a file download which might cause lag.

One of the things I'll add into the tool eventually is a lookup of what many of those ports typically are.

quadomatic
12-08-2008, 12:41 AM
Apparently my problem had been with packets not being sent after all.

I moved my router to my computer and used ethernet and everything was fine.

As soon as finals are over, I'll be playing split-screen L4D online with some friends using 2 360 controllers...if only finals were over...

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-08-2008, 01:30 AM
Apparently my problem had been with packets not being sent after all.

I moved my router to my computer and used ethernet and everything was fine.

As soon as finals are over, I'll be playing split-screen L4D online with some friends using 2 360 controllers...if only finals were over...You were using Wireless off the router?

Great news it's working now quadomatic!

In case anyone is using a USB connection to their router or Wireless (and having connection problems) it's definitely a must to change to copper ethernet and see how that works.

Something else that has been popping up is if you have a Gigabit connection from your computer to a switch or to a router/modem - make certain you have a cat6 or cat5e cable, regular cat5 won't be reliable.

quadomatic
12-08-2008, 01:32 AM
You were using Wireless off the router?

Great news it's working now quadomatic!

Yeah, so if there's anyone out there who was as short-sighted as me, using wireless still, try using ethernet instead. Or get a better router.

moosh
12-08-2008, 08:52 PM
Yeah, so if there's anyone out there who was as short-sighted as me, using wireless still, try using ethernet instead. Or get a better router.

You should be able to play the game wirelessly...

Has anyone tried changing their video settings? Did it help?

moosh
12-08-2008, 08:55 PM
I occasionally see UDP errors happening when Steam isn't running, the trick it to identify what app or service or activity is causing it.

Those services you have there might be:

Port 123: Network Time Protocol
Port 500: VPN Key Exchange
Port 3702: Web Service Discovery

You can look up reported ports here:
http://isc.sans.org/port.html

I dunno what any of that means. What exactly do I have to change to fix these frequent disconnections?

qUiCkSiLvEr
12-08-2008, 10:49 PM
You should be able to play the game wirelessly...I only know of a few players that are successfuly playing games wireless.

In general, wireless can be quite problematic for a variety of reasons.

moosh
12-10-2008, 11:38 PM
How come I can play other games just fine? Why is it ONLY L4D that is having these issues? It seems steam just turns off and back on again. My theory is that something is fighting with it for access to a port but I don't know what.

Every 20 seconds its' "RETRYING CONNECTION TO SERVER..." which lasts for about 10 seconds. When I come back I've been killed or severely wounded.

So frustrating... I bet there's a simple fix for this too. I will try to get a Ethernet cable long enough to go from the router. But if that doesn't work I might just refund the game. Hopefully they'll let me since it's technically defective at this point.

th0r0n
12-11-2008, 10:43 AM
Does anyone get disconnected from the internet entirely?

I've run that app on my UDP connections:

qs_netstat version 0.9b
Date: 11 December 2008, 18:43:41
System Uptime: 0 days 1 hours, 11 minutes and 58 seconds
OS = Windows Vista (Microsoft Windows NT 6.0.6001 Service Pack 1)

Connections
Protocol State Local Remote
TCP Established 127.0.0.1:49474 127.0.0.1:49475
TCP Established 127.0.0.1:49475 127.0.0.1:49474
TCP Established 127.0.0.1:49476 127.0.0.1:49477
TCP Established 127.0.0.1:49477 127.0.0.1:49476
TCP TimeWait 192.168.1.65:49709 198.18.1.7:80
TCP Established 192.168.1.65:49717 207.46.111.111:80
TCP Established 192.168.1.65:49718 65.55.149.121:80
TCP Established 192.168.1.65:49719 65.55.197.254:80
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:123
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:500
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:3702
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:3702
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:4500
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:5004
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:5005
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:5355
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:57622
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:59365
UDP (None) 0.0.0.0:62719
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:1900
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:44301
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:45301
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:49241
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:49368
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:60512
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:62372
UDP (None) 127.0.0.1:64195
UDP (None) 192.168.1.65:9
UDP (None) 192.168.1.65:137
UDP (None) 192.168.1.65:138
UDP (None) 192.168.1.65:1900
UDP (None) 192.168.1.65:60511

Interface Statistics
Local Area Connection 4
Received Sent
Bytes: 9743894 2541387
Unicast packets: 10853 10548
Non-unicast packets: 3952720
Discards: 0 0
Errors: 0 0
Unknown protocols: 0

Local Area Connection 3
Received Sent
Bytes: 0 0
Unicast packets: 0 0
Non-unicast packets: 00
Discards: 0 0
Errors: 0 0
Unknown protocols: 0

Loopback Pseudo-Interface 1
Received Sent
Bytes: 0 0
Unicast packets: 0 0
Non-unicast packets: 00
Discards: 0 0
Errors: 0 0
Unknown protocols: 0

Local Area Connection* 6
Received Sent
Bytes: 0 0
Unicast packets: 0 0
Non-unicast packets: 00
Discards: 0 0
Errors: 0 0
Unknown protocols: 0

Local Area Connection* 11
Received Sent
Bytes: 0 0
Unicast packets: 0 0
Non-unicast packets: 00
Discards: 0 0
Errors: 0 0
Unknown protocols: 0

Local Area Connection* 10
Received Sent
Bytes: 608 28087
Unicast packets: 4 68
Non-unicast packets: 00
Discards: 0 0
Errors: 0 1
Unknown protocols: 0

Local Area Connection* 12
Received Sent
Bytes: 0 0
Unicast packets: 0 0
Non-unicast packets: 00
Discards: 0 0
Errors: 0 0
Unknown protocols: 0


IP Statistics
Packets Received: 10921
Received Header Errors: 0
Received Address Errors: 44
Datagrams Forwarded: 0
Unknown Protocols Received: 0
Received Packets Discarded: 1124
Received Packets Delivered: 23913
Output Requests: 25005
Output Routing Discards: 0
Discarded Output Packets: 711
Output Packets with bad Route Address: 9
Reassembly Required: 0
Reassembly Successful: 0
Reassembly Failures: 0
Datagrams Successfuly Fragmented: 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation: 0
Fragments Created: 0

TCP Statistics
Active Opens: 541
Passive Opens: 17
Failed Connection Attempts: 24
Reset Connections: 24
Current Connections: 7
Segments Received: 19593
Segments Sent: 17203
Segments Retransmitted: 68

UDP Statistics
Datagrams Received: 2184
Datagrams Discarded due to port errors: 1109
Receive Errors: 1
Datagrams Sent: 7469

ICMP Statistics
Received Sent
Messages: 953 183
Errors: 0 0
Destination Unreachable: 953 183
Time Exceeded: 0 0
Parameter Problems: 0 0
Source Quenches: 0 0
Redirects: 0 0
Echos: 0 0
Echo Replies: 0 0
Timestamps: 0 0
Timestamp Replies: 0 0
Address Masks: 0 0
Address Mask Replies: 0 0

UDP V6 Statistics
Datagrams Received: 535
Datagrams Discarded due to port errors: 0
Receive Errors: 0
Datagrams Sent: 1933

TCP V6 Statistics
Active Opens: 0
Passive Opens: 0
Failed Connection Attempts: 0
Reset Connections: 0
Current Connections: 0
Segments Received: 0
Segments Sent: 0
Segments Retransmitted: 0

IP V6 Statistics
Packets Received: 4
Received Header Errors: 0
Received Address Errors: 0
Datagrams Forwarded: 0
Unknown Protocols Received: 0
Received Packets Discarded: 0
Received Packets Delivered: 1933
Output Requests: 2261
Output Routing Discards: 0
Discarded Output Packets: 0
Output Packets with bad Route Address: 0
Reassembly Required: 0
Reassembly Successful: 0
Reassembly Failures: 0
Datagrams Successfuly Fragmented: 0
Datagrams Failing Fragmentation: 0
Fragments Created: 0

ICMP V6 Statistics
Received Sent
Messages: 4 26
Errors: 0 0
Destination Unreachable: 0 0
Time Exceeded: 0 0
Parameter Problems: 0 0
Redirects: 0 0
Echos: 0 0
Echo Replies: 0 0
Membership Queries: 0 0
Membership Reductions: 0 0
Membership Reports: 0 0
Neighbour Advertisements: 0 0
Neighbour Solicit: 0 4
Packets Too Large: 0 0
Router Advertisements: 4 0
Router Solicits: 0 22

Stein
12-11-2008, 11:37 AM
Bumping the thread!

Kinematic9
12-13-2008, 10:50 PM
Ive also had a ticket in on this issue for over 3 weeks now, and the only response i got was 'we are working on it'

Literally that short, this is ridiculous. Kudos to everyone trying to help here, this isnt aimed at you, but wtf is going on, this is BS.

Kinematic9
12-15-2008, 04:24 PM
Still having issues with this guys, thats an fyi

wheresthesuppor
12-24-2008, 03:32 PM
So has everyone else quietly found a fix and not bothered to share? I too have an open ticket with Steam, but have not followed up as there are other games I can waste time with.

Also, IF (very big if) I'm lucky and patient enough the game will eventually start working. More to the point Steam will maintain it's connection with my computer instead of flaking in and out as can easily be viewed with an open steam chat window.

This problem also affects CSS and TF2 on servers that use the VAC anti-cheat BS. With these games I am booted after a short while with the error "Disconnected: Client timed out."

Lastly, on a humorous for you note. In an attempt to fix this problem I tried uninstalling Steam from the add/remove programs list.

DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU WANT TO REDOWNLOAD/REINSTALL EVERY STEAM MANAGED GAME YOU HAVE!!! *deep wrist slashing that day*

So anyway, after downloading Fallout 3 all over again, if I launch the game through the steam client it just sits there attempting to retrieve the CD key from Steam (I do already have this written down btw) but I can launch it fine from it's own executable instead of Steam's shortcut.

So yeah, let's go guys... it's been over a month now.

cetaNu
12-25-2008, 12:23 AM
having the same problem.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=773569

this is ridiculous.

steam is such a stupid platform.

Kinematic9
12-28-2008, 01:32 PM
I have yet to find a solution to this problem. I even did a full format, did not install anything but the basics, installed L4D, first game within 5 minutes - Frozen in Lag, Steam Friends list disconnected. Nothing else installed other than OS / Steam / L4D

My support ticket has yet to be answered from over a month ago as well, I am sure glad to know the 2 copies of L4D I purchased are appreciated by Valve