Considering Linux? Look here!

[AlecJ32]

***Follow this advice at your own risk. This is not a guide, and I take no responsibility for anything that may go wrong.***

This thread is intended to help people who are new to linux or new to certain linux distros have a much more enjoyable experience without having to learn things the hard way. I do not recommend you try linux if you do not have a Windows Disk on hand and enough knowledge to be able to back up your files and be able to re-install Windows if you need to. Please Rate This Thread if you think it's useful, so hopefully we can get it in the mega-sticky.

What Not To Expect
These are just some common misconceptions or myths and things you should not expect going into Linux.


It's not going to be several times faster than Windows
You do not have to memorize hundreds of terminal commands to perform every day tasks
You're not going to have a difficult time finding software to suit your needs, though you may have to look for alternatives to some of your programs.
You aren't going to get 20 FPS boosts in all your games, you're not going to turn your computer on and have it boot up in 5 seconds, and you're still going to have to wait for programs to load, just like in Windows.
You can still play games, though you'll need to use WINE or Crossover for most games and some games won't work correctly under WINE/Crossover.


Is Linux Right For Me?

You probably aren't going to want to use Linux if:

You don't like fussing with things trying to get programs to work.
You don't like learning to do things differently from what you're used to.
You don't have a lot of time on your hands and need things to just 'work' without hassle.
You struggle learning how to do computer related things, even in Windows.


I recommend you dual boot Windows and Linux if at all possible. Since this thread is aimed at people who are new to Linux, and Ubuntu is generally the best choice for users like that, the guide I'll link to is for Ubuntu.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot

Can I run Games and Steam on Linux?

Naturally, games designed for Windows aren't going to work as well on Linux as they do on Windows. However, that doesn't mean you have to give up your hobby of gaming in order to use Linux. Many games are playable under Linux through the use of what's called a compatibility layer. Compatibility layers provide translations for system calls and libraries to allow Windows executables to run on Linux.

The two most popular Compatibility Layers are WINE (http://www.winehq.org/), which is free, and Crossover (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxlinux/), which costs money.

What to expect going into Linux gaming:

Not all games are going to work.
Games may not render correctly or may have some display issues.
Some features in the game might not work correctly.
Most games will not run as well under Linux when using WINE/Crossover as they do on Windows.


Another option for playing games on Linux is to use a virtual machine with Windows installed inside the virtual environment. Keep in mind though, that by using this method you will see very poor performance compared to running the games in a native environment.

There are also a few games that offer native Linux binaries, and can be run without the use of WINE, Crossover or a virtual machine. Some of these titles include:

Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2004
Quake
Quake II
Quake III
Quake IV
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Doom III
Serious Sam
Postal II


Some Advantages to Linux

These are some distinct advantages to using Linux.

It's very light weight, so you can run it on lower end PCs than you can Windows Vista. (Note, this doesn't mean it's faster than Windows on higher end systems. It simply means it will be more usable on lower end systems.)
There is a plethora of free software and packages available.
Most Linux Distributions are completely free.
Linux is a very stable platform.
Linux supports a wide variety of CPU architectures, while Windows 2000 and later only support x86. This is great for obsolete hardware or machines with obscure CPU architectures like PowerPC, DEC Alpha, SPARC and ARM.
Linux is highly customizable, modular and very flexible. It can suit a wide range of needs.



Choosing The Right Linux Distribution

There are many different Linux Distributions available, all designed for different needs and purposes.

User Friendly Distributions:

Ubuntu Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com/):
Ubuntu is probably the best distro for first time users. It is extremely user friendly and has plenty of scripts and built in features that help make doing things simple. It comes with most of the packages you'll need, as well as a great package manager and a GUI-based 'Add/Remove Programs' menu that simplifies installing programs.

Kubuntu Linux (http://www.kubuntu.org/):
Kubuntu is the same as Ubuntu, only with a different Desktop Environment. Kubuntu uses the KDE Desktop Environment instead of the GNOME Desktop Environment that Ubuntu uses.

Linux Mint (http://www.linuxmint.com/):
Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, but comes with a bit more software out-of-the-box.

Pardus Linux (http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/index.html):
Pardus is based on Gentoo, however it is much easier to install/use/maintain than Gentoo. Pardus uses the KDE Desktop Environment, and like Ubuntu, it has an easy to use package manager and a graphical menu through which users can install programs.

PCLinuxOS (http://www.pclinuxos.com/)
PCLinuxOS is another popular and easy to use distro that uses the same Synaptic package manager as Ubuntu.

Middle-Of-The-Road Distributions:

Fedora (http://fedoraproject.org/):
Fedora is a fast, stable, general purpose linux distro that is easy to use and maintain. It provides a great, reliable environment that experienced users will appreciate. It also doesn't have all of the super user-friendly features like many of the User-Friendly distros have, so it's a good choice for people who don't feel they need them.

OpenSuSE (http://www.opensuse.org/en/):
OpenSuSE is a good, reliable distro that you can easily get working. Like Fedora, it doesn't have all of the features for inexperienced users, so it's good for people who don't want those.

Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/):
Debian GNU/Linux is extremely stable and reliable. It's been around for quite a while, and supports a ton of CPU architectures. Debian's website claims it comes with "over 18733 packages". It's a powerful distribution without being as difficult to install as Arch or Slackware.

Mandriva Linux (http://www.mandriva.com/):
Mandriva Linux is another distro that's not too easy or too hard to use. Mandriva Linux uses the RPM package manager like Fedora, however it has a slightly longer release cycle than Fedora.

Lightweight Distributions:

Puppy Linux (http://www.puppylinux.org/):
Puppy Linux is an extremely light weight distro that features a very user friendly GUI. Puppy Linux is designed to be small enough to fit on CDs and USB Flash Drives, so you don't even need to install it to your hard drive to use it.

Damn Small Linux (http://damnsmalllinux.org/):
Damn Small Linux is a minimalist distribution designed to fit on USB drives and CDs. It can also be installed to hard drives.

Extreme Performance Distros (Not Recommended For Inexperienced Users):

Gentoo Linux (http://www.gentoo.org/):
Gentoo is a highly modular, source-based Linux distro designed to optimize itself for the computer it is installed on. Ever single package is compiled from source code. The Gentoo LiveCD comes with the Xfce Desktop Environment, though you do not need to install Xfce or X11 if you do not feel you need them.

Slackware Linux (http://www.slackware.org/):
Slackware is binary-based, like most other distros. Dispite being built from pre-compiled binaries, it is still an extremely fast distro, and is also well known for being extremely stable.

Arch Linux (http://www.archlinux.org/):
Arch is extremely light weight, and is partially source-based, so its packages can be compiled from source codes. Arch does not come with X11 nor a Window Manager/Desktop Environment, so if you want a GUI with arch, you have to download and install one yourself.

Special Purpose Distributions:

BackTrack (http://www.backtrack-linux.org/):
BackTrack is a great distro for network security and testing how secure your network is. BackTrack comes with tons of network tools.

Smoothwall Linux (http://www.smoothwall.org/):
Smoothwall is a Firewall/Router/NAT Distribution that makes it easy to turn an old PC with a couple of Network Interface Cards into a highly functional Router/Firewall.

Coyote Linux (http://www.coyotelinux.com/):
Coyote Linux is a linux based Firewall distribution that can be installed on an old PC to turn it into a Firewall/Router. Coyote Linux can be run from a floppy disk, or installed on a hard drive.

Knoppmyth (http://knoppmyth.net/knoppmyth.html):
Knoppmyth is a Knoppix based distro that uses MythTV to allow users to create a Linux-based DVR/PVR machine. It's aimed at HTPCs.

Mythbuntu (http://www.mythbuntu.org/):
Like Knoppmyth, Mythbuntu is an HTPC distro centered around MythTV, however Mythbuntu is based off of Ubuntu.

Linux From Scratch (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/):
The Linux From Scratch project distro is designed specifically as an environment for building your own distribution by hand. The CD comes with all of the source codes you'd need to put together a usable, functioning Linux operating system and the complete Linux From Scratch book to guide you through building a linux system 'from scratch'. Linux From Scratch LiveCD is great because the LiveCD has all the packages you need to compile your distro.

Popular/Recommended Linux Software/Packages:

WINE (http://winehq.org/):
WINE is a 'compatibility layer' that allows you to run many of your favorite Windows programs and games on Linux (WINE also is available for BSD-based distros and OS X). Keep in mind that not all programs work in WINE, and there are some programs that do not work correctly under WINE, so do not count on WINE to work with all your favorite applications and ditch Windows completely.

Compiz-Fusion (http://www.compiz-fusion.org/):
Compiz-Fusion is a 3D-Composite Window Manager that visually enhances your Desktop Environment. Compiz-Fusion has many great visual effects such as Wobbly Windows and Desktop Cube, and allows you to create your own custom visual configuration.

The GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/):
The GNU Image Manipulation Program is a powerful, free image manipulation program, similar to Adobe Photoshop. GIMP isn't as nice as Photoshop, but considering the price tag, it's a great substitute. GIMP is also available on Windows, OS X, Solaris and FreeBSD.

Open Office (http://www.openoffice.org/):
Open Office is an office productivity suite, similar to Microsoft Office. It is capable of opening most of the common Microsoft Office file formats, like .doc or .ppt and is free.

MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org/):
MythTV is an open source media application that allows users to turn their PC into an entertainment center. MythTV allows users to record, manage and view entertainment media.

iptables (http://www.netfilter.org/projects/iptables/index.html) (For experienced users):
Iptables is a powerful firewall/NAT program for Linux. Since it isn't geared towards inexperienced users, such users shouldn't bother with it.

Don't want to format you hard drive to try Linux?

You have a few options. You can use a LiveCD, a USB drive, Wubi (Below) or as Travis Bickle describes, a virtual machine.
One alternative to setting up Ubuntu or any other linux distro in a dual boot environment on your hard disk is to run it as a virtual machine. Although I use VMWare which costs money there is a free virtual machine program called VirtualBox (http://www.virtualbox.org/) which works great. This is a great alternative to those who are interested in linux but do not want to format their hard drives or shrink their current windows partition. Running it in VirtualBox will also save time and you can even mount ISO files to run a virtual machine.

You can also install Ubuntu with Wubi (http://wubi-installer.org/), which will install Ubuntu inside of your Windows partition, as if it were a program.



To be expanded later on....

[AlecJ32]

Useful Websites and Guides

Upgrading Ubuntu to a Newer Release (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading) (Link provided by Cryptodan)

Running linux as a virtual machine
(Thanks to Travis Bickle (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8706297&postcount=40) for writing this. Could somebody please rep his original post, since I can't give rep?)

Here is a quick guide to install linux as a virtual machine using Sun Microsystems free virtual machine program VirtualBox.

Some of you may not even know what a virtual machine is so here is a brief definition: A virtual machine was originally defined by Popek and Goldberg as "an efficient, isolated duplicate of a real machine". Current use includes virtual machines which have no direct correspondence to any real hardware. Source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine

Term: Host= Physical computer, with default operating system running.

System Requirements: You will need at least 10 GB of free hard drive space and at least 1GB of memory to run 1 virtual machine. The more of both, the better your virtual machine will perform.

First you will need to download the latest version of VirtualBox, found here. (http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads)Be sure to choose the correct binary reflecting your OS. Windows comes in both x86(32bit) and x64 so be careful to download the right binary.

Next step is to download the user manual, this is very important. There are many features that can be taken advantage of and you will need to read the manual to learn how to implement them. The manual is found on the same download page (http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads) and you will need Adobe reader to view it.

Next step is to choose and download a Linux distro, in this quick guide we will be using Ubuntu's latest flavor, 8.10 which can be found here (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download). Once again, be sure to choose the correct version reflecting if you have the ability to run x64 or x86(32bit). The cool thing here is that regardless if your host machine (physical) is running x86 or x64, the virtual machine will be running independently so choosing the right version only reflects on if your processor has the capability to run x64 or not. Download the .iso file which is an image file and can be burned directly to a cd or mounted. In my experience, the best way is to burn the iso image to a disk, then use the disk to install the virtual machine but this choice is up to you, I have found there are more features available when installing the virtual machine as opposed to mounting the image file. Mounting the image file is comparable to running the OS as a "live cd" so in this guide, we will be installing the virtual machine from a cd.

After you have finished downloading the .iso image file, you will need to burn this image to disk. There is a great free .iso image burning tool by Alex Feinman called "ISO Recorder" and can be found here (http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm). Download and install this nifty little program, after you install ISO Recorder you will have the option to "right-click" Ubuntu's .iso file then choose "Copy image to cd". Select this option, the source destination is already selected, just insert a blank writable disk into your cd/dvd burner and let the program do the rest. After completed, you will be prompted that the burn process is successful, eject and label your disk "Ubuntu 8.10".

Next step, install VirtualBox. Select the default settings while installing, using the host network adapter for network support, etc. Using a virtual adapter is for experienced users who plan on setting up a "virtual network" of multiple virtual machines and can be explained in VirtualBox's manual so for now, just select all the default settings upon installation and you may be prompted to restart your computer once installation is complete. This has changed several times through new versions.

Now, for the fun part, creating your virtual machine. Start VirtualBox, select "new" and select "machine". It's self explanatory setting up your new machine, select the drop down box to select OS type and flavor, ubuntu CAN be selected. Make sure to name your virtual machine appropriately. The part you need to be concerned with is creating a new virtual disk drive for your virtual machine. This wizard will guide you through this process, creating a file where your virtual hard disk will be stored. Select the amount of space, I usually go with 8GB or so but the option to be concerned about is whether you select dynamic or fixed. I would select "dynamic" allowing the disk to grow as you use the virtual machine. If you find you need more disk space in the future, you can always create another "virtual disk" by using the "add" button and mounting the disk within Ubuntu. After you have created your hard disk, on to installing Ubuntu!

Open up your dvd/cd rom drive and insert your newly burned Ubuntu cd. Let it load up then cancel out of the autoplay/run setup. Go to VirtualBox, and start your newly created Ubuntu virtual machine and by default (boot order), it will load from your cd/dvd drive. Select the option to "install" ubuntu within your virtual machine, by default it will select your newly created virtual disk, formatting it in the ext3 filesystem and creating a "swap file" partition for linux to use. Just accept all the defaults and let Ubuntu install. Piece of cake, right?

After you have finished installing Ubuntu, you may eject the cd and your virtual machine is now setup. Anytime you want to boot up your linux machine, just start up VirtualBox, start your virtualmachine and you will have an independent OS running on top of your existing running Windows. Virtual machines is the way of the future in computing, allowing you to install multiple powerful operating systems on one powerful machine, creating your own local domains, setting up and implementing RAID for fault tolerance and performance, reducing hardware overhead, etc.

Just make sure to read VirtualBox's manual, it is very useful and informative in learning how to implement some of it's advanced features and in installing multiple virtual machines.

This guide is only the beginning, soon you can learn how to allocate resources, such as memory to balance performance between your "host" (physical) and your virtual machines. You can even enable certain hardware or disable, the choice is all up to you.

I'm not running an x86 CPU. What distros are there for my CPU architecture?
Well, that depends on what CPU architecture you are running, however for most platforms there are plenty of options. This section is devoted to providing users with some popular options for more obscure CPU architectures.
PowerPC and/or Cell:

Yellow Dog Linux
Fedora
OpenSuSE
Debian
Gentoo Linux


ARM:

Debian
FreeBSD (Not Linux)


Alpha:

Gentoo Linux
Debian


SPARC and/or SPARC64:

Gentoo Linux
Debian
Solaris/OpenSolaris (Not Linux)


HPPA:

Gentoo Linux
Debian
OpenBSD (Not Linux)


Display Drivers(Coming Soon)

Glossary

This glossary explains terms used in this thread.

Binary-based: Binary-based distros are built from pre-compiled binaries.
Desktop Environment: Desktop Environments are graphical interfaces that control what the distro/operating system looks like.
Examples: GNOME (http://www.osnews.com/img/10413/ubuntu2.jpg), KDE (http://www.osnews.com/img/1347/myKDE3.jpg), Xfce (http://opensolaris.org/os/project/xfce/xfce-4.4.0-OpenSolaris-large.png)
Modular: A distro that is considered modular just means you only have to install the packages you want installed.
Package: Software that usually comes compressed in some form of archive.
Package Manager: The Package Manager well, manages packages. It's what you use to install, remove or update packages.
Source-based: Source-based distros are built and compiled from source codes.

Learning Resources

These resources can help you learn about different aspects of Linux or Linux in general.

Slackbook (http://www.slackbook.org/) - A detailed manual that's Slackware specific, however, a lot of the info is relevant to all Linux Systems, not just Slackware.

Also add a link to this: RUTE.pdf (http://www.burkes.ws/rute/rute.html) A very good document containing information to give newbies to linux some guidance on commands and what not.

[sad.kuji]

Needs BackTrack (previously Auditor and Whax).
http://www.remote-exploit.org/

[Wallabing]

I've installed and tried Ubuntu for 3 days, then formated my hard drive and swore never to use linux agian.

[AlecJ32]

I've installed and tried Ubuntu for 3 days, then formated my hard drive and swore never to use linux agian.

I can't say I blame you. I'm not a very big fan of Linux myself.

[kfccaleb]

Wallabing: Ubuntu is Live distro - you don't have to install it when you want to try it. BTW: what went wrong?

AlecJ32: I'm missing Fedora (http://fedoraproject.org/) and Debian in Extreme Performance Distros and PCLinuxOS (http://www.pclinuxos.com/) in User Friendly.

[Kailieann]

There's too many different linux distros to be requesting all of them (you forgot mint (http://www.linuxmint.com/)).

For the benefit of people looking for an alternative to Windows, I think at least casual mention should be made for ReactOS (http://www.reactos.org/).

[Juggalo]

They have a lot of good programs, like Tux guitar

[AlecJ32]

I purposely omitted certain distros I haven't used before, because I don't know much about them. As for the "Extreme Performance Distros", I'm trying to limit that section to bleeding edge distros that are on the absolute far end of the spectrum. Two of the distros currently there are source-based distros, and they're all extremely modular. I'm not sure where Debian would fall, but I know Fedora would be better off in the "User Friendly Distros" section.

[Arctic Ice]

Top 10 on DistroWatch. (http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major)

Soo many versions of Linux... ("Select Distribution" drop down menu at the top)

And people snarl at Windows for having 6 :p

PS: I see a lot of "What it isn't" or "Don't expect X...". Maybe consider making a list of good things people can gain from trying Linux. I think this thread is trying to describe what's in the spotlight, not what's in the dark right beside it. Let Linux shine :)

[AlecJ32]

Top 10 on DistroWatch. (http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major)

Why did they put FreeBSD on there? FreeBSD is not Linux! What the hell is wrong with people?


PS: I see a lot of "What it isn't" or "Don't expect X...". Maybe consider making a list of good things people can gain from trying Linux. I think this thread is trying to describe what's in the spotlight, not what's in the dark right beside it. Let Linux shine :)

I did plan on adding something like that. Right now the "Don't expect" is up there because a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about will say things like "Linux is so fast, it can run Windows programs faster than Windows can." and stuff, which generally gives people the wrong idea. If they go into linux thinking that it's going to be insanely fast, and put in all the effort only to find out that it's not any faster than Windows, they're going to be a little buggered.

[atriqus]

Quick note: Arch's main package manager pacman isn't source-based. However, it has an automatic build system (abs) that can create binary packages. There's also a front-end to abs that allows you to treat it like pacman.

But for the most part, Arch is a binary i686 and x86_64 bit distro.

Edit: Also, it's overlord can lift cars over his head!

[atriqus]

Why did they put FreeBSD on there? FreeBSD is not Linux! What the hell is wrong with people?They decided a while back that, in addition to tracking linux distros, they would also follow the BSD and Solaris variants.

[AlecJ32]

Okay, I've added some Advantages to Linux. I'm also going to add some more distros.

Edit: I added "Popular/Recommended Linux Software/Packages" too, if anybody has anything they'd like to contribute to that.

[st_nick5]

Interesting thread here.
/me votes for sticky.

[k*nel]

good work with this, i actually found puppy linux through this. I always like finding and using new distros. puppy linux is really sweet and i now have it on a usb flash drive.

i vote for sticky as well...a lotta "which distro should i get" threads out there.

[Highway Chile]

it'd be nice to have a glossary at the bottom of the post to tell us what terms like 'Desktop Environment', 'KDE', 'GNOME', 'package manager', 'modular, source-based' mean.

[AlecJ32]

it'd be nice to have a glossary at the bottom of the post to tell us what terms like 'Desktop Environment', 'KDE', 'GNOME', 'package manager', 'modular, source-based' mean.

Okay, I'll go at it.

[g859]

Good thread Alec, although I'm not much of a Linux fan..

*Vote Sticky*

[ESCOMMODORE64]

You missed OpenSUSE for advanced users, I'm a fan of OpenSUSE myself.

*Vote for sticky.*

[Travis Bickle]

One alternative to setting up Ubuntu or any other linux distro in a dual boot environment on your hard disk is to run it as a virtual machine. Although I use VMWare which costs money there is a free virtual machine program called VirtualBox (http://www.virtualbox.org/) which works great. This is a great alternative to those who are interested in linux but do not want to format their hard drives or shrink their current windows partition. Running it in VirtualBox will also save time and you can even mount ISO files to run a virtual machine.

[AlecJ32]

One alternative to setting up Ubuntu or any other linux distro in a dual boot environment on your hard disk is to run it as a virtual machine. Although I use VMWare which costs money there is a free virtual machine program called VirtualBox (http://www.virtualbox.org/) which works great. This is a great alternative to those who are interested in linux but do not want to format their hard drives or shrink their current windows partition. Running it in VirtualBox will also save time and you can even mount ISO files to run a virtual machine.

Good, I'll add that in there too.

[ArtieK]

Good, I'll add that in there too.I thing it just did.

[herschede16]

sticky this

very good thread, has alot of good info for ppl that dont know alot about linux

[cryptodan]

You forgot Linux From Scratch.

[NoRCoN]

You missed OpenSUSE for advanced users, I'm a fan of OpenSUSE myself.

*Vote for sticky.*

I am also a fan of OpenSUSE.

Alec, where you mentioned the part about not wanting to format a drive, but still try out LINUX. You might want to mention that Ubuntu has Wubi. Wubi lets you install Ubuntu just like any other program in Windows. It makes the necessary changes to the bootloader to let you dual boot properly as well. And, when you are done trying it out, you can simply uninstall just like you would any other program.

Also, nice thread!

[cryptodan]

Also you need to add what distros are available via LiveCD.

[NoRCoN]

Also you need to add what distros are available via LiveCD.

A lot.... ;)

[st_nick5]

Also you need to add what distros are available via LiveCD.

Most of them.

[FoolishOwl]

A major advantage of GNU/Linux is that it is composed of free and open-source software (FOSS). As the Free Software Foundation puts it, that's "free as in freedom, not free as in beer." This comes from an ethical commitment to freedom, but it does have a lot of practical advantages: that GNU/Linux is generally available at no cost; that users don't have to worry about "planned obsolescence;" that users are free to enjoy "abandonware," and even continue supporting it themselves; that developers of Software Package X can see the source code for Software Package Y and thus avoid conflicts between software packages; and, students of programming can look at the source code of anyy application they use, and even modify it, and publish the modifications, and gain practical experience and reputation that way.

[m-p{3}]

I currently use Ubuntu on my laptop and it works very well. I use my desktop for gaming.

[pr0nstarz]

I absolutely hate windows. Been dual booting (mainly for gaming reasons) since windows 2k came out. With the advances of wine, I don't have to dual boot anymore for work, or whatever, I don't have that sort of naked, stranded on a desert island feeling. It's kinda liberating.

Ubuntu is my favorite distro, not a whole lot of fuss, it runs great, and it comes packaged with Gnome.. The package updating system is amazing. Any "supported" apps you install through the Aptitude package manger are checked every so often, updated, if there are any foreseen faults or discrepancies it'll adjust for you.

I mean, I know my way around Linux pretty well, I could peice together my own distro but why bother? I work 60 hours a week, the last thing on my mind should be "damn, I should really recompile my kernel..gotta get that new video card installed..life without WoW is killing me"

Anyone wanting to try linux, burn a live CD, or a pen drive installation and boot it up, fool around with it. Ubuntu would be more than perfect to start with.

Source linux is for epeens in my opinion. although I do wanna try gentoo. :D

[Hwkiller]

I may consult this thread later next year, when I plan to experiment with some linux

[AlecJ32]

Alright, I've put all of the recent contributions in the thread, and added "Middle-Of-The-Road Distributions".

[cryptodan]

Also add a link to this: RUTE.pdf (http://www.burkes.ws/rute/rute.html) A very good document containing information to give newbies to linux some guidance on commands and what not.

[AlecJ32]

Also add a link to this: RUTE.pdf (http://www.burkes.ws/rute/rute.html) A very good document containing information to give newbies to linux some guidance on commands and what not.

Added, along with a "Learning Resources" section.


If anybody has some Linux programs I should stick in the "Recommended/Popular Programs" section, feel free to chirp up about them.

[cryptodan]

Added, along with a "Learning Resources" section.


If anybody has some Linux programs I should stick in the "Recommended/Popular Programs" section, feel free to chirp up about them.

Microsoft Office Suite Replacement (http://www.openoffice.org)

IPTable based Firewall Support Site (http://www.netfilter.org/)

[Travis Bickle]

Good, I'll add that in there too.

If you want, I can post a quick introduction to virtual machines with simple instructions on how to mount a linux .iso in VirtualBox, enable networking support & a few other simple things to get started. No need for live cd's, just need to download any linux distro's .iso file to get started. I can even post instructions on how to install linux on it's own virtual logical hard disk.

[AlecJ32]

If you want, I can post a quick introduction to virtual machines with simple instructions on how to mount a linux .iso in VirtualBox, enable networking support & a few other simple things to get started. No need for live cd's, just need to download any linux distro's .iso file to get started. I can even post instructions on how to install linux on it's own virtual logical hard disk.

If you want to do that, that'll be great.

[Travis Bickle]

Here is a quick guide to install linux as a virtual machine using Sun Microsystems free virtual machine program VirtualBox.

Some of you may not even know what a virtual machine is so here is a brief definition: A virtual machine was originally defined by Popek and Goldberg as "an efficient, isolated duplicate of a real machine". Current use includes virtual machines which have no direct correspondence to any real hardware. Source = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine

Term: Host= Physical computer, with default operating system running.

System Requirements: You will need at least 10 GB of free hard drive space and at least 1GB of memory to run 1 virtual machine. The more of both, the better your virtual machine will perform.

First you will need to download the latest version of VirtualBox, found here. (http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads)Be sure to choose the correct binary reflecting your OS. Windows comes in both x86(32bit) and x64 so be careful to download the right binary.

Next step is to download the user manual, this is very important. There are many features that can be taken advantage of and you will need to read the manual to learn how to implement them. The manual is found on the same download page (http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads) and you will need Adobe reader to view it.

Next step is to choose and download a Linux distro, in this quick guide we will be using Ubuntu's latest flavor, 8.10 which can be found here (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download). Once again, be sure to choose the correct version reflecting if you have the ability to run x64 or x86(32bit). The cool thing here is that regardless if your host machine (physical) is running x86 or x64, the virtual machine will be running independently so choosing the right version only reflects on if your processor has the capability to run x64 or not. Download the .iso file which is an image file and can be burned directly to a cd or mounted. In my experience, the best way is to burn the iso image to a disk, then use the disk to install the virtual machine but this choice is up to you, I have found there are more features available when installing the virtual machine as opposed to mounting the image file. Mounting the image file is comparable to running the OS as a "live cd" so in this guide, we will be installing the virtual machine from a cd.

After you have finished downloading the .iso image file, you will need to burn this image to disk. There is a great free .iso image burning tool by Alex Feinman called "ISO Recorder" and can be found here (http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm). Download and install this nifty little program, after you install ISO Recorder you will have the option to "right-click" Ubuntu's .iso file then choose "Copy image to cd". Select this option, the source destination is already selected, just insert a blank writable disk into your cd/dvd burner and let the program do the rest. After completed, you will be prompted that the burn process is successful, eject and label your disk "Ubuntu 8.10".

Next step, install VirtualBox. Select the default settings while installing, using the host network adapter for network support, etc. Using a virtual adapter is for experienced users who plan on setting up a "virtual network" of multiple virtual machines and can be explained in VirtualBox's manual so for now, just select all the default settings upon installation and you may be prompted to restart your computer once installation is complete. This has changed several times through new versions.

Now, for the fun part, creating your virtual machine. Start VirtualBox, select "new" and select "machine". It's self explanatory setting up your new machine, select the drop down box to select OS type and flavor, ubuntu CAN be selected. Make sure to name your virtual machine appropriately. The part you need to be concerned with is creating a new virtual disk drive for your virtual machine. This wizard will guide you through this process, creating a file where your virtual hard disk will be stored. Select the amount of space, I usually go with 8GB or so but the option to be concerned about is whether you select dynamic or fixed. I would select "dynamic" allowing the disk to grow as you use the virtual machine. If you find you need more disk space in the future, you can always create another "virtual disk" by using the "add" button and mounting the disk within Ubuntu. After you have created your hard disk, on to installing Ubuntu!

Open up your dvd/cd rom drive and insert your newly burned Ubuntu cd. Let it load up then cancel out of the autoplay/run setup. Go to VirtualBox, and start your newly created Ubuntu virtual machine and by default (boot order), it will load from your cd/dvd drive. Select the option to "install" ubuntu within your virtual machine, by default it will select your newly created virtual disk, formatting it in the ext3 filesystem and creating a "swap file" partition for linux to use. Just accept all the defaults and let Ubuntu install. Piece of cake, right?

After you have finished installing Ubuntu, you may eject the cd and your virtual machine is now setup. Anytime you want to boot up your linux machine, just start up VirtualBox, start your virtualmachine and you will have an independent OS running on top of your existing running Windows. Virtual machines is the way of the future in computing, allowing you to install multiple powerful operating systems on one powerful machine, creating your own local domains, setting up and implementing RAID for fault tolerance and performance, reducing hardware overhead, etc.

Just make sure to read VirtualBox's manual, it is very useful and informative in learning how to implement some of it's advanced features and in installing multiple virtual machines.

This guide is only the beginning, soon you can learn how to allocate resources, such as memory to balance performance between your "host" (physical) and your virtual machines. You can even enable certain hardware or disable, the choice is all up to you.

[Ghz]

I love the Gnome desktop environment, its just so smooth and pastelly... but everything I do runs in Windows so it would be dumb for me to go to Linux.

edit: cool thanks for the link Travis Bickle, I think I will have some fun fooling around with that over my holidays (broke up yesterday) :).

[Travis Bickle]

Sure man, I just started it (had to save, then edit) when you you got the link, since then I added a whole simple tutorial. check it out.

[FoolishOwl]

iptables is a suite of command-line utilities for filtering port traffic. Most novice users wouldn't want to start with that. For one thing, Ubuntu, and as I understand, pretty much all GNU/Linux distributions, has all ports stealthed or closed by default, and only when running server applications are they opened. There are applications to configure iptables more conveniently, such as Firestarter and ufw, if that should be necessary.

[AlecJ32]

Sure man, I just started it (had to save, then edit) when you you got the link, since then I added a whole simple tutorial. check it out.

Okay, I stuck your guide/tutorial in post #2, and credited it to you.

[Travis Bickle]

Nice! Thanks AlecJ32, let's keep this thread alive, really shows how easy it is to try and learn linux. Sticky worthy imo.

[AlecJ32]

Interesting thread here.
/me votes for sticky.

i vote for sticky as well...a lotta "which distro should i get" threads out there.

Good thread Alec, although I'm not much of a Linux fan..

*Vote Sticky*

*Vote for sticky.*

sticky this

very good thread, has alot of good info for ppl that dont know alot about linux

Also, nice thread!

Nice! Thanks AlecJ32, let's keep this thread alive, really shows how easy it is to try and learn linux. Sticky worthy imo.

Thanks guys, hopefully this will end up in the Sticky-collection thread soon enough.

[rotNdude]

Your votes have been noted and this has now been entered into the master sticky. Thanks to Alec and all that have contributed so far. Great job!

[wierdo124]

I think you should put Mint above ubuntu on the list. It's soo much better :)

[cryptodan]

How do you get Steam Community Chat working under linux?

[AlecJ32]

How do you get Steam Community Chat working under linux?

You'll probably have to ask Hobo Joe that question.

[RAKTHEUNDEAD]

I approve of this thread. Excellent way to teach people about Linux.

[JKnife]

If the information was correct..

"Arch Linux:
Arch is extremely light weight, and is partially source-based, so it's compiled from source codes. Arch does not come with X11 nor a Window Manager/Desktop Environment, so if you want a GUI with arch, you have to download and compile one yourself."

Have you even used Archlinux?

to install X11 run pacman -Sy xserver-xorg gnome2

please before you spread false information about a really nice distro make sure you have the information correct.

[AlecJ32]

If the information was correct..

"Arch Linux:
Arch is extremely light weight, and is partially source-based, so it's compiled from source codes. Arch does not come with X11 nor a Window Manager/Desktop Environment, so if you want a GUI with arch, you have to download and compile one yourself."

Have you even used Archlinux?

to install X11 run pacman -Sy xserver-xorg gnome2

please before you spread false information about a really nice distro make sure you have the information correct.

You've completely contradicted yourself.

Installing X11 and GNOME through the package manager would mean it doesn't come with one, now does it?

[dangle]

I've installed and tried Ubuntu for 3 days, then formated my hard drive and swore never to use linux agian.

that sounds just like ubuntu. Mint would have been the better choice.

I think you should put Mint above ubuntu on the list. It's soo much better :)


yes i agree 100% i can't pinpoint exactly what bothers me about ubunutu but i do know Mint is far better.

.

[AlecJ32]

that sounds just like ubuntu. Mint would have been the better choice.




yes i agree 100% i can't pinpoint exactly what bothers me about ubunutu but i do know Mint is far better.

.

They're not really in any particular order, though. I'll bump it up above Pardus, though.

You sound like a Linux Mint user.

Also, if anybody would like to contribute anything to the description of a particular distribution, or would like to see another distro on the list somewhere, feel free to make yourself heard.

[cryptodan]

that sounds just like ubuntu. Mint would have been the better choice.

Ubuntu is far to easy to use.

[dangle]

Ubuntu is far to easy to use.

Hmmm I have Mint on my dell laptop and it works fine never ran into much trouble at all.

At first getting wireless setup was a bit tricky but now my laptop detects any wifi network perfectly. oh and it took me bit to get flash installed but thats probably a linux firefox thing nothing specific to Mint.

[tin]

I think you should put Mint above ubuntu on the list. It's soo much better :)

I think Debian should be mentioned 13 times at the start of the thread. It's awesome.

Not really, but see how my opinion is different? Pushing a distro because you think it's "better" is not helpful to anyone. Especially if said distro doesn't suite the user who tries it, who then figures if that's the best, they'll stick to Windows.

[DrippingCheese]

I have a SuSE machine at work, I'm a Novell admin, and have found it very useful in my work.

It's SLED (SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop) runs all my Novell stuff with no problems.

I haven't migrated my servers to Linux yet, I see no reason to, as OES (Open Enterprise Server), which is basically DOS based, is rock solid.

[tin]

Finish this sentence:
I have a SuSE machine at work, I'


Sometimes find it submits posts before I finish typing them.
Don't think it's working right...
am not sure how to finish this sentence.


Sorry, couldn't help myself when I saw the half post....

Edit: Damn... He (I assume it's a he) finished the post so it doesn't work now :p

[DrippingCheese]

Finish this sentence:



Sometimes find it submits posts before I finish typing them.
Don't think it's working right...
am not sure how to finish this sentence.


Sorry, couldn't help myself when I saw the half post....

Edit: Damn... He (I assume it's a he) finished the post so it doesn't work now :p

My finger slipped.

[AlecJ32]

Alright, I've updated the post to add a few more distros (check the 'Special Purpose' category) and I've added MythTV.

[pizzahut]

VMWare which costs money
VMware has some free products (VMware Server and VMware Player) though not sure if they're suitable. Naturally the player can only be used for existing VMs, like the "browser appliance" which is based on Ubuntu.

[thehitmen]

-You want to play games, mod your PC, Use the most common OS and software and best support - Windows

-You want/work in a specialist field, graphic designers, video editing or use them because they are the standard computer in Media - Get a Mac

-If you own a major website, wanting to use industry standard programs for servers, don't want to pay for licensees or pay allot for a license, want to edit the code behind software for a certain task, want to make your own software free, have a laptop which you would like to learn Linux on - Get Linux

/END OF

[kfccaleb]

Windows OS is a gaming platform. Everything else you can do on Linux and usually for free.

[Cypher__]

Been dual-booting XP and Fedora for about a year. I now do almost everything on Fedora and only use XP for gaming.

[cryptodan]

-You want to play games, mod your PC, Use the most common OS and software and best support - Windows

-You want/work in a specialist field, graphic designers, video editing or use them because they are the standard computer in Media - Get a Mac

-If you own a major website, wanting to use industry standard programs for servers, don't want to pay for licensees or pay allot for a license, want to edit the code behind software for a certain task, want to make your own software free, have a laptop which you would like to learn Linux on - Get Linux

/END OF

Eh no totally wrong.

Linux can game just as well as Windows Can, you can edit code using windows just as easily as on linux, and you can edit movies and do other graphics work on Linux and Windows just as easily on Mac.

[Hwkiller]

Eh no totally wrong.

Linux can game just as well as Windows Can, you can edit code using windows just as easily as on linux, and you can edit movies and do other graphics work on Linux and Windows just as easily on Mac.

I would agree with the latter two, but no, one cannot game as well on linux as one can on windows.

Just because people on linux now can doesn't mean it is just as well.

[AlecJ32]

Eh no totally wrong.

Linux can game just as well as Windows Can, you can edit code using windows just as easily as on linux, and you can edit movies and do other graphics work on Linux and Windows just as easily on Mac.

Right, though I don't think I'd include the gaming bit. It's just a matter of which application you want to use.

The one thing you could try and argue is that anything involving audio processing will be faster in Mac and Linux, since DirectSound has so many audio layers that add latency to what you're doing. This can be circumvented through ASIO though, which bypasses the audio layers and makes a direct interface between the hardware and application, and it'll be as fast as on Linux or OS X. As long as your audio software supports ASIO (which it SHOULD), you'll be fine.

[AlecJ32]

Updated again. I've added more distros.

[thehitmen]

Eh no totally wrong.

Linux can game just as well as Windows Can, you can edit code using windows just as easily as on linux, and you can edit movies and do other graphics work on Linux and Windows just as easily on Mac.

No you can't!!111

Playing games on linux is just a complete fail, and the problems you would encounter.

Makes me cringe!!

[Hobo Joe]

No you can't!!111

Playing games on linux is just a complete fail, and the problems you would encounter.

Makes me cringe!!


He's somewhat right.


The problem isn't in the OS itself. Linux more than capable of playing games as well, or better, than Windows. The problem is that the games are coded for Windows. They're coded for DX.

The incompatibilities are the problem.

[µR¼]

Eh no totally wrong.

Linux can game just as well as Windows Can, you can edit code using windows just as easily as on linux, and you can edit movies and do other graphics work on Linux and Windows just as easily on Mac.

Please, if you can and only if you have. name the Programs you've used to do such things?

1. Games surly don't run as well as Windows. Of that which is based on personally experience.

2. yeah, just as easy of course, because it's just a text editor.

3. Edit movies? Now that's where I get ticked off. What Program have you ever used to edit movies that do better than Windows Movie Maker? http://cinelerra.org/, and a few other's that worked haven't done a better job than the piece of ♥♥♥♥ that WMM is.

[AlecJ32]

2. yeah, just as easy of course, because it's just a text editor.

The 'text editor' of your choice and the compiler of your choice have to work properly on the given platform, though. If your company's web server runs Microsoft Internet Information Server, and uses ASP.NET, you're not going to be using Linux to do your coding. You'll probably be using Visual Studio. And if you're a software engineer, and you're making something for windows using C# or something, you again will probably use Visual Studio.

[AlecJ32]

Okay, I've updated the original post a bit and added a section for non-x86 distros.

[Mehall]

The 'text editor' of your choice and the compiler of your choice have to work properly on the given platform, though. If your company's web server runs Microsoft Internet Information Server, and uses ASP.NET, you're not going to be using Linux to do your coding. You'll probably be using Visual Studio. And if you're a software engineer, and you're making something for windows using C# or something, you again will probably use Visual Studio.

yes you are, ASP.NET was just open Sourced :)

And your web server runs IIS? Howd ya like that downtime?

Apache isn't on 2/3 or more of the internet for no reason.

As others have said, I only boot Windows to game nowadays.

Actually, I only boot Windows to play Battle-field Heroes, since the Orange Box works in WINE. I can;t wait for VALVe to port the Source Engine to linux native :)

For anyone wondering, I use Crunchbang Linux. Minimalist, based on Ubuntu, but without a bunch of bloat, etc. (so it's even better than Mint. No bloat, with simple usage.) it takes a bit of getting used to compared to Windows, but it's easy enough :)

[Travis Bickle]

I can;t wait for VALVe to port the Source Engine to linux native :)


I don't think this will happen in the near future. If anything, It would be ported to MAC before linux, more user base = more money.

[Mehall]

I don't think this will happen in the near future. If anything, It would be ported to MAC before linux, more user base = more money.

Ahh, but the Steam Client is being ported to Linux, and remember that a lot of servers for Steam already run on Linux.

VALVe have been known to like Linux

I don't see it happening ASAP, btu I do see it before Mac. Linux has games, Mac has none.

hell, the only reason UT3 isn't on Linux is due to legal issues.

[Travis Bickle]

I used to run 2 servers in linux. You can't compare server binaries to the client program binaries. The client is what makes money directly, servers don't & it has been brought up numerous times in the forums about porting the steam client to linux & we've always received the same response, "not anytime in the near future." The only reason why server linux binaries were available was for the fact that many hosts offered servers running linux. I remember switching back to windows because the port to linux wasn't very reliable either. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see steam in linux without using wine but like I said, I've heard rumors for years and have yet to see any progress. I would like you to link me with factual information to back up your claim it indeed is in the process of porting over to linux.

[justakid791]

Ahh, but the Steam Client is being ported to Linux

Source!? If so, I can't wait XD

[Mangr0v3]

I heard from a friend that Linux is harder on the HDD - more read/write cycles and that sort of thing. Is this true?

[dangle]

i would think the other way around since you don't use swap space (page file) as much or at all compared to windows. usually in linux when i check my swap space it says 0% used where in windows it will be much higher,

[AlecJ32]

Updated for more depth on Linux Gaming. If anybody has anything they'd like contributed, just let me know and I'll stick it up there.

And your web server runs IIS? Howd ya like that downtime?

My Web Server wouldn't be up 24/7 anyways, and I only use it on the local intranet.

Besides, it's a fair trade-off, since with IIS you don't have to use Apache's clunky config file interface.

[darkpriest667]

I used to run 2 servers in linux. You can't compare server binaries to the client program binaries. The client is what makes money directly, servers don't & it has been brought up numerous times in the forums about porting the steam client to linux & we've always received the same response, "not anytime in the near future." The only reason why server linux binaries were available was for the fact that many hosts offered servers running linux. I remember switching back to windows because the port to linux wasn't very reliable either. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see steam in linux without using wine but like I said, I've heard rumors for years and have yet to see any progress. I would like you to link me with factual information to back up your claim it indeed is in the process of porting over to linux.



the only people i know running mac are school districts and the odd musician or two .... other than that i see more and more people switching to linux.. including myself...


I doubt they would port for mac (which has virtually no games released for it) before linux... A lot of people are fed up with microsoft charging 150 dollars every time they feel like releasing a new operating system... and the biggest irony i see is that newegg and other retailers are charging 30 to 60 dollars more for copies of XP and XP pro than for Vista... that in itself should tell you a lot...

no my vote is that linux will be ported before mac... besides... you can still use a mouse with two buttons on linux and if you want to do it on mac (i have one) you have to install a special program and drivers..

oh and for the record the mac was given to me its a g3 and i rarely even boot it up.

[Travis Bickle]

I think you quoted the wrong post from me. Nowhere in that post do I even mention mac, only the fact that I still have not seen any proof that valve is working on a linux steam client for release. This is a bummer because I would love to personally see it. I still don't think linux holds enough of a player base for it to be feasible. If anyone has any real statistical information regarding mac & linux users, that would be great.

[AlecJ32]

the only people i know running mac are school districts and the odd musician or two .... other than that i see more and more people switching to linux.. including myself...

Schools use OS X for it's software. Linux lacks good proprietary software, and schools don't want to use non-proprietary software, because proprietary software provides official support, warranty and accountability.

Musicians also use OS X because of it's software. Windows and OS X have superior software to Linux. All of the major audio production/audio processing software makers, like Native Instruments, Sony, and Cakewalk, and the smaller ones like Propellerhead and FruityLoops make their software almost exclusively for Windows and OS X. The open source software available for Linux is horrible, in comparison.

The reason one would choose OS X over Windows is that the Windows Audio Stack and DirectSound have a lot of different audio layers. Each layer adds latency, and most of those layers aren't important for audio production/sound engineering. Since having a low-latency interface is important, most professionals will use OS X, or they'll use the ASIO interface in Windows.

I doubt they would port for mac (which has virtually no games released for it) before linux...

IIRC, OS X has a larger share of the market than Linux, and much more mainstream ubiquity than Linux. I imagine more success from offering something on OS X than on Linux.

A lot of people are fed up with microsoft charging 150 dollars every time they feel like releasing a new operating system...

....Look how much time elapsed between Windows XP and Windows Vista. If people aren't willing to upgrade after 5-6 years, that's their own greed and foolishness.

and the biggest irony i see is that newegg and other retailers are charging 30 to 60 dollars more for copies of XP and XP pro than for Vista... that in itself should tell you a lot...

...That dispite Windows Vista being faster, more stable and more secure than Windows XP, people are silly enough to pay more for XP than for Vista?

oh and for the record the mac was given to me its a g3 and i rarely even boot it up.

Why don't you go find a PowerPC based Linux distro and put it on your Mac, since you don't seem to like Apple's operating system?

[msu.falcon]

....Look how much time elapsed between Windows XP and Windows Vista. If people aren't willing to upgrade after 5-6 years, that's their own greed and foolishness.

Actually, in all fairness, some businesses really don't need anything that Vista gives them over XP. Especially businesses where the technology is just there to get out of the way and let them get things done.

I think Vista is a fine OS, but there are compatibility issues from MS finally making a decent security stack when most vendors have been making programs that need administrator rights to run. (Their own software like Visual Studio followed bad practices at least up through 2005, so I'm not sure how they would expect anybody else to follow best practices.) Not to mention developers being screwed over when Microsoft abandons an old technology to move onto something else. Or change their mind on "best practices". First it was .ini files. Then it was the registry. Now, don't use the registry, use XML files which are basically just .ini files. Make up your mind! (Let's hope ASP.NET will be around for a long time, eh?)

I have no problems with Microsoft other than the times they get in the way of innovation in the thirst for money and marketshare. (Web development, anyone? Thanks for sitting on IE6 for 6 years without touching it, still not being compatible with CSS 2.1 in 7, finally getting closer in 8 but not even close in JavaScript and still being behind the best browsers in most areas. If you're not going to keep up then get out of the game and let everybody else play instead of taking up marketshare just by bundling your software and making it head-desk frustrating to develop cool stuff. Argh! =P) Keep your marketshare by being the best, not by making sure the best can't survive. =(

I wish Linux would get better game support, but in order for that to happen there really need to be open standards, and then all of the developers would need to use them (e.g. OpenGL) instead of the proprietary ones (e.g. DirectX). Really, the PS3 is probably the best bet to make that happen since a lot of games go multiplatform on the 360 and PS3 anyway, thus need to have a path besides DirectX. It's very hard to keep up with those kinds of proprietary standards when those standards take a great deal of knowledge, time, and money to create and very few companies other than Nintendo and Sony would have a vested interest in doing so, and that knowledge needed is too much to expect a lot of people to be able to do it in their spare time for free.

Linux is getting more user-friendly all the time. I think the biggest issue right now are proprietary drivers. (Proprietary anything, really.) Linux doesn't have enough marketshare for most companies to make Linux drivers, most companies don't want to open up the specs for people to make their own drivers for fear of giving away trade secrets, and until everything has drivers a lot of people will be reluctant to move over. Games and a few programs that don't have good open-source alternatives are the two reasons I haven't switched to a Linux distro as my main OS, which is really sad as I wish I could, but Vista is fine in the meantime.

[msu.falcon]

Updated for more depth on Linux Gaming. If anybody has anything they'd like contributed, just let me know and I'll stick it up there.



My Web Server wouldn't be up 24/7 anyways, and I only use it on the local intranet.

Besides, it's a fair trade-off, since with IIS you don't have to use Apache's clunky config file interface.

*Shudders* I'm not a big fan of IIS's interface. It would probably be nice if all of Apache's settings could be changed in some sort of GUI, but it's nice to just be able to do a quick text search to jump to all the settings you want to change instead of sifting through several menus to find the setting you want.

I like Apache a lot better and use that at home (things like mod_rewrite are so nice and the attempts to port them to IIS have a few too many problems for me), but I'm used to IIS as that's what we use at work (and it's pretty much necessary to use if you want ASP.NET since MS abandoned .NET support for Apache. Surprise, surprise...)

[Mangr0v3]

IIS 5, 5.1 and 6 had a nice GUI, and you could change the metabase with relative ease. It's harder in IIS7, but I'll probably get used to it

[msu.falcon]

IIS 5, 5.1 and 6 had a nice GUI, and you could change the metabase with relative ease. It's harder in IIS7, but I'll probably get used to it

Getting PHP working with FastCGI in IIS7 was not fun. I am so sick of running into Vista permissions issues with almost every single piece of development software I use.

[cryptodan]

Upgrade Methods for Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading). Site is full of ways to upgrade to the next distribution/version of ubuntu. I am doing the Network Upgrade, and its pretty painless.

[AlecJ32]

Added, thanks.

[MADDOGGE]

Nice thread Alex. To be quite honest I have no real use for Linux beyond playing around with it. Windows does whatever I need to do. I'm simply not interested in trying hit and miss the running windows programs in another OS thru an abstration layer. That being said though, I am interested in the few games and programs I have seen so far made on purpose for Linux. I just installed the latest Ubantu and the Desktop is close enough to Windows that I am comfortable with it. Or I will be once I learn where everything is. G-parted is what got me interested in seeing how Linux works enough to go to the trouble of installing it. I like the free office suite and the games that came with it.

Are there any GOOD tutorials for installing linux games. I have found out it isn't as easy as clicking on an install button. Is it that each game has to be compiled to match the machine you are running?

[AlecJ32]

Are there any GOOD tutorials for installing linux games. I have found out it isn't as easy as clicking on an install button. Is it that each game has to be compiled to match the machine you are running?

Which particular games are you having trouble with? The only native Linux game I've ever tried Installing was Unreal Tournament 2004, so I don't know how games are normally packaged.

[Hwkiller]

I think many of them come with a .run file, don't they?

If that's the case, you just open up the terminal, cd to the directory, and "sh filenamehere.run"

After some googling, it seems many linux games are just simply tarred, without source. If THAT'S the case, you just extract the tarball, and execute the game's executable. If it has an executable, according to the readme it should have, that isn't executing, you might have to do a "chmod 755" (which changes it's permissions to owner: read, write, execute; group: read, execute; others: read, execute).

And if it has neither of those, I think you might have to compile it yourself, which isn't difficult. If it has a configure file, then just do "./configure" in the directory. Then simply "make" and "make install"

Hope that helped.

[MADDOGGE]

I think many of them come with a .run file, don't they?

If that's the case, you just open up the terminal, cd to the directory, and "sh filenamehere.run"

After some googling, it seems many linux games are just simply tarred, without source. If THAT'S the case, you just extract the tarball, and execute the game's executable. If it has an executable, according to the readme it should have, that isn't executing, you might have to do a "chmod 755" (which changes it's permissions to owner: read, write, execute; group: read, execute; others: read, execute).

And if it has neither of those, I think you might have to compile it yourself, which isn't difficult. If it has a configure file, then just do "./configure" in the directory. Then simply "make" and "make install"

Hope that helped.Thanks guys. I don't have the list handy at the moment. There will definately be a learning curve for me. However I don't have to have them running yesterday and so can take my time learning. I'll just have to do some research. Learning new things is fun for me when there is no pressure, although many times it takes a while before things click for me; besides it's on a separate PC where I can safely make mistakes without destroying my main PC.:eek::D

[MrHaxx1]

You don't say enough good things about Ubuntu...

Btw, add Sabayon Linux. That must be the most awesome Linux distro evarh! It's Gentoo based, therefore it's pretty good for games. They even have a gaming edition, but thats more like it just come preloaded with some native Linux games installed, and Wine optimized to gaming. BUT it is alot easier to use and install than Gentoo and it is (like all other distros) VERY customizable.

But i am dual-booting Windows 7 and Sabayon Linux... Theres just nothing that beats gaming on Windows.
If i weren't a gamer, i wouldn't even have Windows installed...

[Toto pectore]

PC with Gentoo distribution has only two modes:

1. it's compiling or...
2. it's turned off

:D

[undeadbobop]

I've installed and tried Ubuntu for 3 days, then formated my hard drive and swore never to use linux agian.
ubuntu is the easyest one to use. If you had trouble with just using it think how bad a terminal based linux would be for you. (for me no problem) It takes about on average a week to set it up fully for first time users but is worth all the frustration because you get a education that way, and maybe (depending on what you plan on going into) you might have to use linux since its free, and can be more secure businesses may use it.

Ahh, but the Steam Client is being ported to Linux, and remember that a lot of servers for Steam already run on Linux.

VALVe have been known to like Linux

I don't see it happening ASAP, btu I do see it before Mac. Linux has games, Mac has none.

hell, the only reason UT3 isn't on Linux is due to legal issues.
they had a hl1 linux server application for years. (valve released it)

[notavirus.exe]

I really want to put linux on my Dell Inspiron 1526 laptop.

250gb HD, Athlon x2 TL-60 (@2.0ghz), 3gb of DDR2 ram, wireless and webcam.

My problem is picking which Linux to use, I've used ubuntu when doing my senior research project for physics because the measurement software was designed for it. However when I google "Linux inspiron 1526" I get a bunch of garbage sites from 2008 and earlier.

Anyone know of a linux distro that will work with its wi-fi, that is most important because a laptop without wi-fi is pretty illogical to me. I plan on wiping windows off the drive once I find something good.

I would say my tech level for software is between a 7-8 out of 10. 10 being a full time developer, 1 being the guy who calls desktop towers a modem.

Edit: Please PM if you have any sure fire options, vista on that laptop is horrendous and I don't have an old XP disc to back track, windows 7 I've already used my student upgrade discount on my desktop.

Thanks in advance.

[divine_skills]

I really want to put linux on my Dell Inspiron 1526 laptop.

250gb HD, Athlon x2 TL-60 (@2.0ghz), 3gb of DDR2 ram, wireless and webcam.

My problem is picking which Linux to use, I've used ubuntu when doing my senior research project for physics because the measurement software was designed for it. However when I google "Linux inspiron 1526" I get a bunch of garbage sites from 2008 and earlier.

Anyone know of a linux distro that will work with its wi-fi, that is most important because a laptop without wi-fi is pretty illogical to me. I plan on wiping windows off the drive once I find something good.

I would say my tech level for software is between a 7-8 out of 10. 10 being a full time developer, 1 being the guy who calls desktop towers a modem.

Edit: Please PM if you have any sure fire options, vista on that laptop is horrendous and I don't have an old XP disc to back track, windows 7 I've already used my student upgrade discount on my desktop.

Thanks in advance.
I would go with the familiar Ubuntu. Since it's the most popular distro you will have a easier time finding help if needed.

I like Lubuntu myself, which is Ubuntu running LXDE instead of GNOME, making it lighter.

[borg_7_of_9]

I gave Fedora a try a few week's back, stable my ♥♥♥ ..

Well it stable on an old P4 but in don't like my main rig (HDD controller issue maybe with my raid array).. So until I get a wireless card n' case for the old P4 I'm giving it a miss.. Goes well on the old P4 though..

nice info BTW..

[regf]

Speaking about RAID, using Linux with BIOS created RAID is probably not a good idea. That is because 99% of so called RAID controllers are not really RAID controllers - these are plain SATA controllers, with a BIOS extension to configure RAID parameters and write them to disks (usually near the end), and a Windows driver which reads RAID parameters from disks and do the RAID functions in software.

The Linux kernel ignores any RAID signatures and sees the RAID as just a bunch of disks. To make a BIOS RAID visible in Linux there is a user-space program called "dmraid", which can read and understand many RAID signature formats, and can assemble the array using kernel's "device mapper" infrastructure.

Unfortunately, the format of RAID signatures written by BIOSes is proprietary, vendor dependent, and even with all the reverse engineering efforts the support is severely lacking.

As of version 1.0.0.rc16 dmraid still can't update the RAID metadata. There is no daemon which could mark a disk in RAID as bad in case of errors, no support for advanced consistency checks and tracking. It's good enough to access BIOS created RAID in read-only mode, but very inadequate for writing to such arrays or installing Linux on them.

The best "Linux only" solution is to disable any RAID support in BIOS and just use the standard "mdraid" software RAID (do not confuse with dmraid!).

The best solution for dual boot is to just use a different hard drive for Linux which is not configured as RAID in BIOS.

[borg_7_of_9]

Speaking about RAID, using Linux with BIOS created RAID is probably not a good idea.

The best solution for dual boot is to just use a different hard drive for Linux which is not configured as RAID in BIOS.

I did have it as dual boot and Linux was on a non-raid drive it screwed my Win7 MBR and it still didn't like running on my main rig.

Controller set to RAID but 2 of the drive's not in an array. I think they RUN in AHCI?

I even tried The Marvel Controller set as IDE with an old EDI HDD still no go..

[Hwkiller]

I really want to put linux on my Dell Inspiron 1526 laptop.

250gb HD, Athlon x2 TL-60 (@2.0ghz), 3gb of DDR2 ram, wireless and webcam.

My problem is picking which Linux to use, I've used ubuntu when doing my senior research project for physics because the measurement software was designed for it. However when I google "Linux inspiron 1526" I get a bunch of garbage sites from 2008 and earlier.

Anyone know of a linux distro that will work with its wi-fi, that is most important because a laptop without wi-fi is pretty illogical to me. I plan on wiping windows off the drive once I find something good.

I would say my tech level for software is between a 7-8 out of 10. 10 being a full time developer, 1 being the guy who calls desktop towers a modem.

Edit: Please PM if you have any sure fire options, vista on that laptop is horrendous and I don't have an old XP disc to back track, windows 7 I've already used my student upgrade discount on my desktop.

Thanks in advance.

It shouldn't much matter what the distro is. The kernel is what's important for hardware compatibility.

All the main distros should have at least a relatively updated kernel.
Arch is running 2.6.37 I think; Ubuntu (last I checked) was a bit behind, but not far enough behind that it warrants your laptop useless.

Just try one out. I love Arch, but unless you really want to tinker around, I'd go with Ubuntu, Mint, PCLinuxOS, Chakra, etc.

[b82a]

I like Ubuntu so much and use it since 2008 8.04 release, but now i'm on 11.04 and i dont like unity and waiting for stable gnome3, its only one issue what i have still using ubuntu.

[tin]

I like Ubuntu so much and use it since 2008 8.04 release, but now i'm on 11.04 and i dont like unity

Same here - started using Ubuntu 8.04 at my old job (one of the perks of being the IT guy means I could do what I wanted with my work PC), and have been using it on multiple computers since. Really dislike Unity as a desktop/laptop interface (smaller devices I can see a use for it on, but forcing it as default on normal upgrades is dumb).

I'm told Mint is a good option for Ubuntu users looking to get away from Canonical's strange decisions. Haven't tried it yet, but it does look really good in all the screenshots and stuff.

[Dominator42]

This topic was very helpful, thanks.

[AlecJ32]

This topic was very helpful, thanks.

I've been meaning to add more software to the lists of 'useful software', but I never have time for anything anymore.

You don't say enough good things about Ubuntu...

If you want me to be honest, I personally feel that Ubuntu is a poor representation of what Linux is about. It strives to make a 'free Windows-replacement' out of the Linux kernel and GNU software, but that's not really a very productive pathway. Ubuntu hides most of the actual 'Linux' from users and there are little scripts and GUI applets that do everything for you. It leaves the user helpless, with almost no understanding of Linux and the inability to do very rudimentary things. This is especially bad when something comes along that can't really be done the Ubuntu way, even though it may be a fairly simple task; the user struggles to accomplish whatever it is and often becomes discouraged with Linux.

Also, Ubuntu is pretty darn bulky in my opinion.