Looks like $1 = €1 after all

[CorneliusCH]

Apple did lower the prices for UK Itunes User, so that the EU Commission would drop chrages.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/01/10/itunes-lowers-prices-in-britain-after-european-commission-compla/
http://www.brandrepublic.com/News/775658/European-Commission-forces-iTunes-lower-UK-prices/

[Unshaved]

Want to talk about the soldier update? No problem...oh wait, here comes someone to inform us that UK is paying 7 pounds and they've got to pay 10 Euro (a whopping three US dollar difference)

You fail at math.. I'm glad you have got nothing to do with economics in your daytime job.. or are you? probably the reason why you are trolling so much here.

[Smurfy12]

Apple did lower the prices for UK Itunes User, so that the EU Commission would drop chrages.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/01/10/itunes-lowers-prices-in-britain-after-european-commission-compla/
http://www.brandrepublic.com/News/775658/European-Commission-forces-iTunes-lower-UK-prices/

They didn't. I just went on iTunes and songs are still 79p.

[smooth]

You fail at math.. I'm glad you have got nothing to do with economics in your daytime job.. or are you? probably the reason why you are trolling so much here.
Why don't you post the numbers you came up with instead of trying to flame me?

As for my numbers, take it up with google:

7 British pounds = 10.2865 U.S. dollars

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=7+pounds+to+dollars&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=


10 Euros = 14.04500 U.S. dollars

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=10+euros+to+us+dollars&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

*hint: exchange rates fluctuate throughout the day

[jalf]

There is no official response possible. What are they going to say?

a) "Hey, it's all the fault of developers/publishers." Do they really want to piss of the publishers? Not to mention we would still ask, "hey, do you want us to believe you have no influence on the prices on your own store? what kind of business are you running here?"
b) "We decided the prices with the publishers." Lose/lose. Publishers get pissed at Valve, we get pissed at Valve, everyone's pissed.
c) "It was all us. We decided the prices. Mwhahahah". :rolleyes: Well... I guess at least the publishers won't be pissed at Valve with this one.

Well, they could say something like "We're aware that 98% of all games are priced insanely in Europe, and we're going to get the prices reined in as soon as possible".

Perhaps not phrased like that, but something which makes it clear that they're aware the problem exists, and that they intend to fix. For all I care, they don't need to tell us whose "fault" it is. The prices are silly whether it's the publishers or Valve who set them.

You're right, if they intend to stick with these prices, there's no response they can make that'll quieten everyone down. But assuming they care about their European sales, they will have to lower the prices, and if that is the case, they could make an announcement to that effect, without saying whose fault the current prices are.

As for my numbers, take it up with google
Ok. Google confirms your exchange rates. Now let's ask Google to subtract the two numbers (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=10+eur+-+7+gbp+in+usd&btnG=Search):
(10 Euros) - (7 British pounds) = 3.7585 U.S. dollars

Sure, $3.7 isn't *a lot* more than $3, but I think you'll have to agree that it's more. It's just over 36% extra. A 36% price premium from one day to the next doesn't bother you?

[CorneliusCH]

They didn't. I just went on iTunes and songs are still 79p.

You still pay less then we do.

0,79 GBP = 1,26 CHF

But we pay 1.50 CHF per Song.

And about the price itself, they didn´t keep their word they gave so that the EU leaves them alone.

[chokke]

There is no official response possible. What are they going to say?

a) "Hey, it's all the fault of developers/publishers." Do they really want to piss of the publishers? Not to mention we would still ask, "hey, do you want us to believe you have no influence on the prices on your own store? what kind of business are you running here?"
b) "We decided the prices with the publishers." Lose/lose. Publishers get pissed at Valve, we get pissed at Valve, everyone's pissed.
c) "It was all us. We decided the prices. Mwhahahah". :rolleyes: Well... I guess at least the publishers won't be pissed at Valve with this one.

Well, a heads up could be a start. Saying "We are aware of this issue, and we are working on fixing the prices (or making a system) so that americans and UK-people (UKians? ;) ) are not paying less then europeens". It's not about blaming instances, it's more about getting on the customers level (after all, we decide how Steam will work out).
Saying "It's THQ that prices theyr game, blame them, not us" is not an official response, that is more like the oposite.
Who would trust a leader that don't know what happens to the clan and thinking all is nice while the clan is going ♥♥♥♥down. (clan = group of people gathered, like a country, region or whatever).

[Balerion]

This discussion is absolutely ridiculous now mainly thanks to those few people here who has nothing to do with this topic.
It's ridiculous seeing US users who weren't screwed by this change defending Valve.

The facts are:
-Valve's exchange rate for $ and € is wrong
-Valve has different prices for UK and rest of EU even when UK is part of the EU
-Valve is denying EU customers to buy their product in one of the EU countries (UK)
-thanks to the wrong exchange rate for € the prices for EU customers went up by around 40%
-Valve is trying to fool the customers by so called "discounts" when in reality most of those "discounts" are more expensive or has the same price as was the original price in $

Even being a US customer, unless you are totally ignorant or just plain stupid, you can't be seriously defending Valve in this situation. Well, unless you are really just trolling, in which case, just go away.
Now, let's leave the EU commission out of this. People can report Valve to EU commission and that's enough. What's gonna happen then is up to them. This topic is about the prices that went up thanks to the exchange rate.

[Karma_Police]

@ Jalf and chokke

Yes, you are right. That's what an official response should be about, and not blaming someone.

I'm now awaiting an official response too.

[smooth]

The prices went up because you guys asked for, and received, localized pricing and it takes time to implement it for dozens of countries.

Valve isn't trying to "fool" anyone...this is their holiday sale that occurs every year which is something you should know given your join date.

[Balerion]

The prices went up because you guys asked for, and received, localized pricing and it takes time to implement it for dozens of countries.

Valve isn't trying to "fool" anyone...this is their holiday sale that occurs every year which is something you should know given your join date.
Takes time? Are you kidding me? Why was there a BETA then? You know what's BETA means, don't you? Takes time my ♥♥♥.
We asked for a 40% raise in the prices? Are you really stupid or are you just trying to make me laugh. Cause I'm not laughing.

Explain to me the reason, why they deny EU customers to buy in UK store, when UK is part of the EU.

Raising the prices and then offering discounts when the prices are same as before WITH the discount, is an obvious attempt to fool the people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique

[smooth]

EU customers can't purchase steam products from UK storefronts due to regional restrictions.

No one can purchase a game from steam outside their home storefront...did my post honestly just alert you to this fact?

[jalf]

The prices went up because you guys asked for, and received, localized pricing and it takes time to implement it for dozens of countries.


I didn't ask for localized pricing, and I haven't been given localized pricing (We don't use the Euro here)
All I have been given is a huge price jump. I don't recall *anyone* asking for that.
And I don't see the relation between prices going up, and localized pricing in any case.

If Valve cared to do so, it wouldn't be rocket science to check the exchange rates and set the Euro prices to something similar to what we paid the day before.

But you're acting like they did us a favor of some kind, which just baffles me.

And even if we assume you're right, and Valve had the best intentions, and only wished to make life easier for us Europeans, you seem to be claiming that they pushed an incomplete and unready product at us. From your post, it seems their localized pricing is not yet finished, and that it will all make sense in the end. So why did they launch it if it wasn't ready? Why didn't they stick with the old prices then, until they had the correct new ones ready?

[Unshaved]

The prices went up because you guys asked for, and received, localized pricing and it takes time to implement it for dozens of countries.

takes time to implement it for dozens of countries? They already have if you haven't noticed. There are only 2 different prices here in the EU "version" of steam. The UK pricing and the rest of the EU pricing. Not letting us to choose which is not allowed in the EU market.

also, no it was as I recall only a "little" group that wanted localised pricing. At least compared to the group that is now complaining(and thus I assume didn't want the localising)

[smooth]

takes time to implement it for dozens of countries? They already have if you haven't noticed. There are only 2 different prices here in the EU "version" of steam. The UK pricing and the rest of the EU pricing. Not letting us to choose which is not allowed in the EU market.
It is allowed for specific reasons. I already posted the article explaining that to be the case.

I didn't ask for localized pricing, and I haven't been given localized pricing (We don't use the Euro here)
All I have been given is a huge price jump. I don't recall *anyone* asking for that.
And I don't see the relation between prices going up, and localized pricing in any case.

If Valve cared to do so, it wouldn't be rocket science to check the exchange rates and set the Euro prices to something similar to what we paid the day before.

But you're acting like they did us a favor of some kind, which just baffles me.

And even if we assume you're right, and Valve had the best intentions, and only wished to make life easier for us Europeans, you seem to be claiming that they pushed an incomplete and unready product at us. From your post, it seems their localized pricing is not yet finished, and that it will all make sense in the end. So why did they launch it if it wasn't ready? Why didn't they stick with the old prices then, until they had the correct new ones ready?
I don't know how to explain the relationship between localized pricing and fluctuating prices any more clearly than what's already been stated. I also don't know how to explain to you why checking the current exchange rate between dozens of currencies not only is a ton of labor, but will be outdated the second they are posted to the storefront.

But in terms of why Valve decided to launch the products now, even with some prices out of whack, is because it's christmas time and many people have been begging for EA and Ubi (among others) products for years and the vast majority of them are probably happily playing away on all those fresh releases they didn't previously have access to.

The solution seemed simple from my perspective: if you don't like the price, don't purchase it.

I personally liked the price for Warhead. I did not like the price for Crysis. I also did not agree with the price of the Orange Box, so I purchased that from my local retail store and downloaded the games from Steam. I missed the $20 L4D Amazon sale on L4D, so I'm waiting on that.

That's how I grew up. I can't give you a logical explanation for why I prefer that over making sure that every single store I turn to has the same, exact price. I guess it's ideological, or maybe I realize that it costs more to download stuff from Washington, USA in Norway than it does to download it in California, USA. Sorry if that doesn't make sense to you but I'm willing to pay extra for the convenience steam affords me and I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face by dragging Valve down over a few bucks when they allow me to downloads gigs of data indefinitely after a one-time fee.

The last thing I want is for steam to turn into EA's download model where you only have 6 months and have to pay for additional access.

[Ultima V|RUZ]

I am getting very tired of moderating this thread. The next people who continue to post borderline or straight on derogatory, trolling, stupid remarks will be infracted for a very high point amount, if not outright banned for continuing to blatantly go against forum rules.

[chopstix]

It is reversed, chopstix.
Go read any of the other numerous posts all over the board in totally unrelated threads where Euro users chime in with the fact they are boycotting Valve.

...

I find your post especially strange because earlier you claimed that you were a US customer but you sure don't sound like one here with your constant chiming in about reasonable prices compared to retail, whatever that is. I asked you earlier, and you apparently thought leaving for a few hours would mean you didn't have to answer the question, where do you see steam games offered for the same or less than retail prices in the United States? oh that's right, you said that wasn't really what the argument was about...consistent much?


ONCE AGAIN...my posts were directed at the people who started a similar thread requesting localized pricing. Now that it's being implemented, those same people are complaining about differences in pricing.

I disappeared a few hours so I didn't have to answer a question? If you are talking about last night, I left to play a game and go to bed. I just check this thread a couple times a day. I am not here spamming the F5 key waiting for your reply and to argue, sorry.

Are you asking to provide you with examples of games costing exactly the same as retail? Sure. Call of Duty 4 is pretty much the same at all major retailers and at Steam. Grand Theft Auto 4 is also pretty similar amongst Steam and retailers.

The point is, neither one is near 40% more expensive than the other. Steam follows the standard pricing scheme here in the States, and is on par with retailers. Why don't Europeans deserve the same? I don't believe it is to much to ask for games to be brought down to standard prices for Europeans. If they aren't, Valve is the only one who will suffer the consequence in the end, as Europeans go back to buying retail. That is a large market to lose.

Last but not least, just because I am an American does not mean I cannot chime in about pricing in other countries. Many of the people I play games with are from Europe, specifically Norway and Denmark. We usually coordinate the games we buy so we can enjoy them together online. I am not happy with the current situation, and want Valve to know that it even indirectly affects Americans, because it affects our friends. I stand by their side, because if I were in Europe, I wouldn't be pleased either.

[Hwkiller]

I am getting very tired of moderating this thread. The next people who continue to post borderline or straight on derogatory, trolling, stupid remarks will be infracted for a very high point amount, if not outright banned for continuing to blatantly go against forum rules.

Heh, I'll second that.

This thread is meant for discussing the situation and, maybe your ideas.
This thread is NOT meant to troll others' opinions, flame companies or countries, nor is it meant to be a field for ranting.

Now, I'm sure valve likes to hear your opinions, but if a person wants to be taken seriously, the person needs to be mature in their responses.
I want to hear your opinions, but I don't want to go through 14 pages a day deleting obscene, rude posts. I understand you're frustrated, but please do not use this thread as a place to vent. Use it as a place to give logical reasons as to why it's bad, what could be improved, your personal opinion on the matter (be civil), and lastly, just to discuss amongst yourselves.

Happy posting.

[Unshaved]

It is allowed for specific reasons. I already posted the article explaining that to be the case.

Ok, I searched a bit into your posting history but could'nt find it..
Anyway. Directly from the Dolceta site:
You can buy virtually anything you like from another EU country, either in person or via mail order, and take it, or have it delivered, straight to your home. However, there are certain goods, like firearms, drugs and live animals, for which entry in the UK is restricted - regardless of the country you are travelling from.

The way I interpret this is that i SHOULD be able to buy from the UK steam site. Because well steam isn't selling firearms, drugs or live animals.

Oh and the video from the start post:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV3NQiZFO1k
which basically says the same

[Balerion]

I also don't know how to explain to you why checking the current exchange rate between dozens of currencies not only is a ton of labor, but will be outdated the second they are posted to the storefront.
Dozens of currencies? You must be really kidding now. DOZENS? We are talking about USD and Euro. All they have to do is check the exchange rate between USD and Euro. EVERY other company has to do it, even retailers and they FOR SOME REASON are able to do it without increasing the prices by 40% (even bigger companies than Valve), but Valve can't? Even where I'm working we have to work with current exchange rate of Euro and SKK daily (that'll change in few days) and we are also able to do it. It's not that difficult.
I don't know what you are smoking dude, but that's some quality ♥♥♥♥ right there.

[-Mew-]

I just love how every online store that sells games out there does the same thing look at EA Store it has UK price a EU price and a US price.

The EU store is the same as US one except the changed the currency.

I live in Croatia and average pay here is A WHOLE LOT LOWER then in other EU countries, HELL WE'RE NOT EVEN IN THE EU, we're trying to get into it and by TRYING i mean we're not going to get there for at least 5 years, that obviously means we're underdeveloped. Just because I'm european dosent mean I'm in the EU bloody idiots! I demand games at prices I can bloody buy, prices that are SET by the average pay of a COUNTRY or a standard European price for the EU, and a prices for the people that arent in the EU for obvious reasons like .... UNDERDEVELOPED or NO TAXES FOR ONLINE PAYMENT or DONT USE € as a currency.

I mean why does the UK get such special treatment... Switzerland and Norway buy just about the same amount of games as the Brits do...

[cstorvik]

Steam follows the standard pricing scheme here in the States, and is on par with retailers.no they don't. The prices are universal.

[smooth]

Ok, I searched a bit into your posting history but could'nt find it..
Anyway. Directly from the Dolceta site:


The way I interpret this is that i SHOULD be able to buy from the UK steam site. Because well steam isn't selling firearms, drugs or live animals.

Oh and the video from the start post:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV3NQiZFO1k
which basically says the same
I was referring to the Apple decision where the commission decided that Apple was acting within the constraints of copyright protections and regional restrictions in its differential pricing structure.

Despite what some people are saying about that decision, the fact that Valve is an online distributor of 3rd party games they do not personally set the pricing for, it's the most relevant guide we have for how they will treat this situation. It's also even more closely related based on the fact that the purported reasoning for the availability of games in one region and not others is due to regional publishing rights (e.g., Ubi has various "arms" in Germany and France that may or may not agree to release a particular game and decide for themselves how much the release will be.)

@Balerion,
Directly underneath you, -Mew-, is posting that he is being affected by the price changes and his country does not use the Euro. So yes, I stick to my claim that Valve will have to figure out dozens of currencies and rates. That's only for European customers; there are hundreds of different countries that are going to eventually be asking for localized pricing over time.

There are only two major etailers I personally know of who go to the extent of separate storefronts for their customers: Amazon and iTunes.

[Unshaved]

I was referring to the Apple decision where the commission decided that Apple was acting within the constraints of copyright protections and regional restrictions in its differential pricing structure.

Eh? no, you were referring to me and I wasn't referring to anything but that it is actually not accepted in the EU that we can't buy everywhere. And then I showed you that quote that we should be able to buy from the UK storefront, plus the vid.
I'm now waiting to see if I and the site are wrong about this or not.

[smooth]

Eh? no, you were referring to me and I wasn't referring to anything but that it is actually not accepted in the EU that we can't buy everywhere. And then I showed you that quote that we should be able to buy from the UK storefront, plus the vid.
I'm waiting to see if I and the site are wrong about this or not.
Let me try this again:
When I wrote to you that I posted the article explaining the basis of my opinion on the matter in regards the EU commission prohibiting Valve from differential pricing for EU customers and limiting which storefronts they can purchase from, I was referring to the decision already made about Apple's prices in the UK.

Here it is again, for the third time:

The Commission was satisfied that the price differential was not the result of collusion between Apple and the record companies. The probe "allowed the Commission to clarify that there is no agreement between Apple and the major record companies regarding how the iTunes store is organized in Europe. Rather, the structure of the iTunes store is chosen by Apple to take into account the country-specific aspects of copyright laws," the Commission said.

It added that it is aware that some record companies, publishers and collecting societies still apply licensing practices which can make it difficult for iTunes to operate stores in a uniform manner in all European countries.

No antitrust action would be taken against the record companies, said Jonathan Todd, the Commission's competition spokesman. "Our understanding is that the record companies that don't apply pan-European pricing [for their music] do so respecting copyright policy, and that is not an antitrust violation," he said.

--http://www.macworld.com/article/131479/2008/01/eu.

[Unshaved]

Yeah I just found it now a couple pages back.

But then I do agree what he said:
I saw that, but I wouldn't apply that ruling across the board to all digital distribution. And also the prices concerned there were in line with current exchange rates so in fact it was easier to allow it. This issue is different enough to warrant a new ruling.

Edit: Ok, I have nothing more to add.. this is getting pointless

[smooth]

Yeah I just found it now a couple pages back.

But then I do agree what he said:
OK, you can agree with what he said, but he's wrong.

[Balerion]

@Balerion,
Directly underneath you, -Mew-, is posting that he is being affected by the price changes and his country does not use the Euro. So yes, I stick to my claim that Valve will have to figure out dozens of currencies and rates. That's only for European customers; there are hundreds of different countries that are going to eventually be asking for localized pricing over time.

There are only two major etailers I personally know of who go to the extent of separate storefronts for their customers: Amazon and iTunes.
I'm from Slovakia, so I understand -Mew- more than you probably think.
Valve doesn't have to localize the prices for every country in the world.
All they have to do, is localize it for the major currencies. Having prices in just USD is ok, as USD is the major currency in trade worldwide.
So saying things like that is just an excuse. They either should make everything available in 1 currency OR if they want to be so "nice" and localize it, then use a proper exchange rate. The exchange rate doesn't fluctuates SO MUCH. So saying that it'd be too much work is really just an excuse. Every company who's dealing with trade in more currencies has to do it and -surprise!- they do it without raising the prices by 40%!

So tell me, why all those companies (bigger and smaller) are able to work with the exchange rates daily but Valve can't?

They have just 3 currencies to work with. Just 3! For SOME REASON they were able to set good prices for UK store which is in DIFFERENT currency than USD but weren't able to do so for Euro?
You can't be serious.

[smooth]

I'm from Slovakia, so I understand -Mew- more than you probably think.
Valve doesn't have to localize the prices for every country in the world.
All they have to do, is localize it for the major currencies. Having prices in just USD is ok, as USD is the major currency in trade worldwide.
So saying things like that is just an excuse. They either should make everything available in 1 currency OR if they want to be so "nice" and localize it, then use a proper exchange rate. The exchange rate doesn't fluctuates SO MUCH. So saying that it'd be too much work is really just an excuse. Every company who's dealing with trade in more currencies has to do it and -surprise!- they do it without raising the prices by 40%!

So tell me, why all those companies (bigger and smaller) are able to work with the exchange rates daily but Valve can't?

They have just 3 currencies to work with. Just 3! For SOME REASON they were able to set good prices for UK store which is in DIFFERENT currency than USD but weren't able to do so for Euro?
You can't be serious.
I didn't say it was so much work that it couldn't be done; I said that it takes time to implement. Someone else asked me why they launched the process half finished, my response to that was due to consumer demand.

Some people prefer to obtain games they didn't have access to previously regardless of the price differential between retail or other countries.

Also, keep in mind that this is not like any other store that decides what prices to put on the pricetag. It's right in the opening post that the publishers have the final word on the prices Valve distributes their games.

Most of the places I've seen do exactly what Valve does: pounds, then USD and Euro are the same 49.99 or whatever. -Mew- backed this up by pointing out that's what amazon does where he's from. I know my Canadian friends have to deal with this, too. Company of Heroes is $29.99 USD, and it's 29.99 Canadian dollars. When I purchase products for my fish tank from Canada, I pay the same "dollar" amount, but the dollars have different worth. The reason the prices went so out of whack is more because of major changes between country's currencies due to market realities, not because Valve listing a game for 49.99 euro when it's also 49.99 USD is odd.

Before any of these changes, even before the market crashes, European customers were paying ridiculous prices for some games. Look at the Aussie who posted ealier that they regularly had to pay over $80 to $130 per game. This whole idea of some countries having widely divergent prices than US or retail is nothing new.

And why shouldn't Japanese gamers get pricing in Yen or Chinese in yuan?
I'm not sure why you think Valve should only focus on three currencies. Even if they did, all of the EU member states have different VAT rates, and some don't pay VAT at all. No, this is much more compicated than just slapping a price tag on the box and calling it good.

[Balerion]

And why shouldn't Japanese gamers get pricing in Yen or Chinese in yuan?
I'm not sure why you think Valve should only focus on three currencies. Even if they did, all of the EU member states have different VAT rates, and some don't pay VAT at all. No, this is much more compicated than just slapping a price tag on the box and calling it good.
You are getting the wrong idea here. I'm not talking about things that "(never) will be", "might be", "maybe" or whatever. I'm talking about the CURRENT situation, not about something the will maybe happen in few years. Or never.
NOW they have ONLY 3 currencies. They were able to set proper prices for 2 of them and screwed the 3rd. Why? And they had BETA before. They went with 1=1 exchange rate, all they had to do was to change 1=1 to 1=1,4 in their algorithm. Don't tell me that they weren't able to do it IF THEY WANTED TO.
Excuses, excuses.

If they wanted to set proper prices for EU, they'd have done it. It's either laziness or greed. Pick your choice.
And don't try to tell me, that a company that can program complicated algorithms for their AI, physic and their own engines, make their own online distribution themselves aren't capable of setting proper exchange rate for ONE currency.

[smooth]

What do you mean don't tell you they weren't able to do it if they wanted to?
Didn't you read the first post of this thread?


Vandal (CD Projekt): Just remember, Steam doesn't necessarily set the prices for games on the site -- they've asked publishers about the prices they'd like to sell games at. Publishers have to approve the pricing, or they have an option of changing it. With The Witcher: Enhanced Edition we asked them to lower the price in Europe (well, Eastern Europe, where the game is available on Steam) to be in-line with market expectations.

...

Valve sent us an email basically saying "here's what we're doing and here are the prices we're planning to use -- let us know if you need them adjusted" and I'd suspect that other publishers must have gotten that same email.. particularly considering the fact that we only have one game on Steam, so we're a minor player.


Furthermore, I'm fairly certain I gave a reasonable explanation for why some prices are going to have 49.99 euro when they are also 49.99 USD in the other four paragraphs of my post you ignored.

[Balerion]

"Valve sent us an email basically saying "here's what we're doing and here are the prices we're planning to use -- let us know if you need them adjusted"

Yes I read that.
What should I say? It was obviously Valve's doing and the publishers would be stupid to NOT agree with such exchange rate. They can earn 40% MORE.
So, what's your point? It even states that it was Valve's intention from the start to screw the EU customer with 40% higher prices...
Valve came up with the idea. The publishers just had to OK it.

[*VeLeRoN*]

Valve came up with the idea. The publishers just had to OK it.
They didn't have to, but they did ok it, some of them. It wasn't Valve's decision.

[smooth]

You're developing this annoying habit of only reading the last line of my posts. As I already wrote, go back and read the other four paragraphs of my post and then re-read the quote box. Right at the top you'll see:
Publishers have to approve the pricing, or they have an option of changing it.

The person you're quoting...is The Witcher 40% more?
In fact, double check EU prices because I keep getting dollar amounts...

[Balerion]

They didn't have to, but they did ok it, some of them. It wasn't Valve's decision.
Of course they didn't HAVE to ok it my god. You know what I meant.
It WAS Valve's decision to change it. They came up with it. And for that change to pass, the publishers had to say ok. If they didn't, then they just had to adjust the price. And of course most of the publishers are going to agree with such a change. It's business.
What's so difficult to understand on that?
In the first place, it was Valve's decision to use that exchange rate. It was their initiative, not the publishers'. It's Valve's store. Their business. They are responsible for it.

And they obviously wanted 40% more money out of EU customers.

[pkt-zer0]

Also, keep in mind that this is not like any other store that decides what prices to put on the pricetag. It's right in the opening post that the publishers have the final word on the prices Valve distributes their games.
You seem to have missed the fact that VALVe's own games use the same conversion as well. No third parties involved.

Before any of these changes, even before the market crashes, European customers were paying ridiculous prices for some games.
You're apparently ignoring the bunch of comparisons to retail prices that have been posted before. Steam prices wouldn't be 40-100% higher than retail if they were only catching up, now would they? As an example, Team Fortress 2 goes for the equivalent of 20$ here.

[smooth]

OK, dude, believe what you want.
But if you are seriously asking your question about what's so hard to understand it's because Veleron and myself, along with who knows how many others, realize that Valve evidently said, "hey, here's the price we're going with got a problem with it?" and some said, no, and others said, yeah.

but maybe you have a better handle on it. maybe Valve just completely miscalculated the market savvy of the entire continental european consumers and said, why not charge them 40% more...woot, free money.

I mean, they've got a pretty long track record of not listening to their customers and screwing them whereever they can. EA and Ubi, on the other hand, are paragons of customer satisfaction.

@pkt-zero
I'm not ignoring anything. In fact, I've repeatedly stated that we have the same situation over here in the US. OB goes for $30 over here too at the retail stores. TF2 is $20 in the US. I have no idea where your "here" is (hungary?)

Who knows what kinds of contractual agreements Valve is bound by. They do have publishing partners for retail yah know...

[zoltar777]

We,Europeans need to organize ourselves and fight for our rights otherwise we will always get screwed and robbed.We need to spread boycott against Valve and Steam store and spread the bad message to blogs,social networks,forums,fellow game players,family members... etc. etc.Take an action ! Don't be passive.

The want war ? They will get war.

[FISKER_Q]

"Valve sent us an email basically saying "here's what we're doing and here are the prices we're planning to use -- let us know if you need them adjusted"

Yes I read that.
What should I say? It was obviously Valve's doing and the publishers would be stupid to NOT agree with such exchange rate. They can earn 40% MORE.
So, what's your point? It even states that it was Valve's intention from the start to screw the EU customer with 40% higher prices...
Valve came up with the idea. The publishers just had to OK it.

If noone buys the games at ridiculous prices what makes you think they could earn 40% more?

[Smurfy12]

We,Europeans need to organize ourselves and fight for our rights otherwise we will always get screwed and robbed.We need to spread boycott against Valve and Steam store and spread the bad message to blogs,social networks,forums,fellow game players,family members... etc. etc.Take an action ! Don't be passive.

The want war ? They will get war.

"Unnecessary internet drama"

[*VeLeRoN*]

And they obviously wanted 40% more money out of EU customers.
The thing is, like with every business, they want to sell less for more money. That's not the point though. Valve could do it only with publishers' consent.

Ok, we might say that Valve came up with this $1=1eur idea, and we can blame them for THEIR games sold on steam using this exchange rate. But only this, nothing more. ALL other games have nothing to do with Valve - just like their prices.

I'm all for fair pricing etc, but you can't do it by just blaming those who aren't exactly responsible for this mess.

[Balerion]

but maybe you have a better handle on it. maybe Valve just completely miscalculated the market savvy of the entire continental european consumers and said, why not charge them 40% more...woot, free money.
Of course I have. I'M the one who has to pay 40% more now. Not you.
-Valve is charging 40% more (even for their OWN products on their OWN store)
-Valve came up with the conversion idea

Heh, I can't believe you are so blind. Well, I guess you don't realize it because YOU don't have to pay 40% more for no obvious reason.
I'd like to see you if it was the other way around, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be one of those defending Valve in that case. ;)

You are living in the PAST and talking about FUTURE. You have to live HERE and NOW.
Yes, Valve has a good history with their customers.
Yes I thought they were one of the last few decent companies out there.
But NOW the situation is like this. And PAST doesn't matter NOW. The FUTURE is not here yet. RIGHT NOW I, as a European, have to pay 40% more. RIGHT NOW, I don't care what Valve's past history is. I'm not going to pay 40% more and defend them just because of their PAST. They screwed me NOW. You can't expect me to get screwed and actually like it.


But only this, nothing more. ALL other games have nothing to do with Valve - just like their prices.
Look mate, it's Valve's store, isn't it? It's their business right? Their responsibility. If something goes wrong with THEIR store, THEY are the ones to blame. It was their decision. And I'm going to complain to them. The publishers and other companies distributing via steam has nothing to do with it. Valve wanted them on Steam. SO it's their will. Their fault.

You can't expect people to blame for example EA because Steam belongs to Valve. EVEN if EA made Valve to change the rates to 1=1, it's Valve's decision to accept it. And to be blamed for it.

SOMEONE has to take the responsibility. And the owner is the one responsible.

[mouton]

They didn't have to, but they did ok it, some of them. It wasn't Valve's decision.
And yet Valve's own titles were just as overpriced. I wonder why?
Valve could do it only with publishers' consent.
And customers' consent. Which is not given. So they can eat their prices as far as most Euro customers are concerned.
I'm all for fair pricing etc, but you can't do it by just blaming those who aren't exactly responsible for this mess.
Yes, Valve is responsible. They weren't forced by publishers, as they did the same to their own games. And if it was some mistafe, transition period etc., they would have actually commented on the matter.

[pkt-zer0]

I'm not ignoring anything. In fact, I've repeatedly stated that we have the same situation over here in the US. OB goes for $30 over here too at the retail stores. TF2 is $20 in the US.
:confused:
How would it be the same? It's not 40+% more expensive to buy them from Steam than retail, is it? Last I checked, TF2 was $20 on Steam in the US.

Who knows what kinds of contractual agreements Valve is bound by. They do have publishing partners for retail yah know...
Yeah, they were legally obliged to increase the price of digital downloads by forty percent in continental Europe a year after TF2's release. Sounds plausible.

Also, see the Doug Lombardi quote I cited in a previous post.

[zoltar777]

We,Europeans need to organize ourselves and fight for our rights otherwise we will always get screwed and robbed.We need to spread boycott against Valve and Steam store and spread the bad message to blogs,social networks,forums,fellow game players,family members... etc. etc.Take an action ! Don't be passive.

The want war ? They will get war.

"Unnecessary internet drama"

Since WHEN a defiance against discrimination and abuse is called a drama ?
All people in Europe,and whole world are equal - we do not agree to pay more than others only because we live in continental Europe.

[FISKER_Q]

:confused:
How would it be the same? It's not 40+% more expensive to buy them from Steam than retail, is it? Last I checked, TF2 was $20 on Steam in the US.


Yeah, they were legally obliged to increase the price of digital downloads by forty percent in continental Europe a year after TF2's release. Sounds plausible.

Also, see the Doug Lombardi quote I cited in a previous post.


No, they're legally obliged to not change the prices which were agreed upon by them and the publishers.

[smooth]

How come the minute you start to feel like you're not "winning" the argument you start flaming us? We were having a nice positive conversation and now you've gone and tried to stir the coals from a few pages back.

I already said when I tried to check the steam price for their games I'm only getting dollar amounts when I change the URL. I was going off your quoted price of $20. Give us a link for the steam games that have such crazy prices.

But also do us a favor and follow the mods' advice and stick to the facts and refrain from insulting other posters before more people get banned and more posts are deleted...or the thread is finally locked and wiped.

[mouton]

I already said when I tried to check the steam price for their games I'm only getting dollar amounts when I change the URL. I was going off your quoted price of $20. Give us a link for the steam games that have such crazy prices.
That should work for you http://store.steampowered.com/?cc=se
Changing url works for me to see the dollar prices and the above url worked for many others.

or the thread is finally locked and wiped.
Mods would love to, simply because this thread must be a lot of tedious work. But unlike you they realize this whole mess is quite serious and controversial, contrary to the "what's the big deal?" insight that most non-euro posters push around here. I find it fascinating how differently people react when something does not affect them.

[HobbitStomper]

I don't earn more just because I live in Ireland, so why should I pay up to 40% more on a regular game that doesn't even need to be shipped?

That's really disappointing Valve!

[*VeLeRoN*]

I find it fascinating how differently people react when something does not affect them.
That's true, and has always been. There is a huge difference between biased people and mere observers.

[smooth]

That should work for you http://store.steampowered.com/?cc=se
Changing url works for me to see the dollar prices and the above url worked for many others.


Mods would love to, simply because this thread must be a lot of tedious work. But unlike you they realize this whole mess is quite serious and controversial, contrary to the "what's the big deal?" insight that most non-euro posters push around here. I find it fascinating how differently people react when something does not affect them.
I'm just reiterating what the moderators already posted a page or so back.

Anyway, whatever, it looks to me like it's cheaper on steam than amazon:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/440/
list 19.99 euro
sale 9.99 euro

http://www.shopireland.ie/games/detail/B00169J7G2/team-fortress-2-(pc-dvd)/
list 21.06 euro
sale 15.84 euro

http://www.amazon.de/Electronic-Arts-GmbH-Fortress-DVD-ROM/dp/B0013UB2Z8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230500886&sr=8-1
14.95 euro

OB
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/469/
29.99 euro
sale 26.99

http://www.shopireland.ie/games/detail/B000RO0OKU/half-life-2:-the-orange-box/
36.86 euro
sale 19.94 euro

http://www.amazon.de/Half-Life-2-Orange-Box-DVD-ROM/dp/B000VMSLYE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230500886&sr=8-2
29.95 euro

[jalf]

I didn't say it was so much work that it couldn't be done; I said that it takes time to implement. Someone else asked me why they launched the process half finished, my response to that was due to consumer demand.

Which particular consumer demand was this? Who were calling for Euro prices so urgently that they were willing to eat a 40% price premium for it? I wasn't even aware that there was any demand for localized pricing from us consumers.

And more to the point, if it was all done for us consumers, why did they 1) ignore the feedback they got from their beta, clearly saying it was a terrible idea to go on with these prices, and 2) make the Euro prices mandatory? What kind of customer service makes an unpopular measure mandatory?

Also, keep in mind that this is not like any other store that decides what prices to put on the pricetag. It's right in the opening post that the publishers have the final word on the prices Valve distributes their games.
And you already pointed out one place where that post was wrong. Why should we blindly believe this then?
Anyway, publishers obviously have the final say in how much they want to be paid for each sale of their game. And when launching the European prices, publishers obviously have to agree on the payout for each Euro sale. That doesn't necessarily mean they get to choose the final store price for the game, and the quote in the original post doesn't explicitly say which prices the publishers had to OK.

The reason the prices went so out of whack is more because of major changes between country's currencies due to market realities
No, it's because Valve chose to ignore these market realities. They could have said "Ok, what's the exchange rate between USD and EUR today?" and used that as a guideline. Instead, they went by a completely arbitrary exchange rate which may have been *mostly* accurate a year ago, but certainly isn't today. Valve knew about these market realities, and checking the current exchange rate can be done in just about 7 seconds. Valve could have launched their Euro prices to reflect *today*'s market realities. Instead they chose to launch it reflecting something from an unknown point in the past.


Before any of these changes, even before the market crashes, European customers were paying ridiculous prices for some games. Look at the Aussie who posted ealier that they regularly had to pay over $80 to $130
You know those are Australian dollars, right?
And once again, the currency doesn't matter. But a 40% price jump overnight is enough to make most of Steam's customers choke. I think, even though you'd never admit it, it'd make you hesitate about buying from Steam as well.

And of course we know we were paying ridiculous prices for some games. That's why we're upset that Steam now adds 30-40% on top of these ridiculous prices.


I'm not sure why you think Valve should only focus on three currencies. Even if they did, all of the EU member states have different VAT rates, and some don't pay VAT at all. No, this is much more compicated than just slapping a price tag on the box and calling it good.
But that is exactly what they did. They slapped a new price tag on the box and pretended no one would notice. The old prices took the varying VAT into account, simply by adding it at checkout. The new price is 40% higher, and then a variable amount goes to VAT. That means Norwegians and Swedes pay the same amount for a game, but 100% of the money a Norwegian pays goes to Valve, while only 75% of a swedish purchase does so. With the old prices, Swedes and Norwegians would pay the same amount to Valve, but Swedes would pay another 25% in VAT.

But only this, nothing more. ALL other games have nothing to do with Valve - just like their prices.
Huh?
Games from every publisher are grossly overpriced (with a few exceptions, from the couple of publishers who already fixed their prices). But here's the thing that you people sucking it up to Valve seem to conveniently forget no matter how often it is pointed out: Even Valves own games are overpriced.
In fact if he had to look for a common denominator for all the games whose prices got skewed madly, there is only one: "Valve". Valve runs Steam, and only games on Steam are affected. And games that no other publisher has touched (such as Valves' own games) are affected, which means it's not a conspiracy by EA and Ubisoft to raise prices on their games exclusively.

And finally, of course, it doesn't matter whose fault it is. Valve has a vested interest in fixing it, because it's *their* store getting a bad name, and their sales suffering. And of course, Valve has a big say in pricing on Steam. They run the service, they make the rules. Pretending otherwise is silly.

Anyway, whatever, it looks to me like it's cheaper on steam than amazon
From the prices you posted, it doesn't look like it. Yes, Steam's 1-week holiday sale is cheaper than other retailers. But amazon.de seems to be 25% cheaper than Steam's regular price.

[smooth]

If you think steam's prices are more expensive than amazon's, then you are just ignoring cold, hard facts. I posted them right there for everyone to see *and* provided the links to back them up.

The reason you take the evidence about valve not controlling pricing of 3rd party software is because, even though the opening post was wrong in his interpretation of the situation with Apple, he provided a citation to go and read the developers' words for yourself.

It is obvious that you are just arguing against facts now. There really is no substance to your contradiction of the prices of valve's games on amazon and statements by the developers themselves regarding the pricing of 3rd party software.

[chokke]

Pricing on Steam is set by the publisher.


Seems like COD 4 was priced by Activision.

[smooth]

Here's Amazon France:
TF2
http://www.amazon.fr/Electronic-Arts-Team-Fortress-2/dp/B0016ZUB7U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230501839&sr=8-1
25.50 euro

OB
http://www.amazon.fr/Half-Life-2-Orange-Box/dp/B000V4YAMO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230501839&sr=8-2
34.90 euro

Valve games are cheaper on steam at both full retail *and* sale prices compared to Amazon Ireland, Germany, and France.

[mouton]

If you think steam's prices are more expensive than amazon's, then you are just ignoring cold, hard facts. I posted them right there for everyone to see *and* provided the links to back them up.
Dude, that 9.99 euro price for TF2 is a holiday sale only, ending on 2nd January. the usual price is 19.99 euro which is higher than the usual price of 15 euro. I don't know that shopireland place, but Amazon has those "discounts" permanently, just to show how cool they are. Actually, after checking out that shopireland page, it doesn't say anywhere that it is time limited discount, but it just says "our price", suggesting it is permanent. So here you have your cold hard facts.

Let us consider other comparison: Left4Dead
Steam: 45 euro (was 50 just after currency change, lol), now on sale for 33 euro until 2nd january. So it is 45 euro that counts.
Retail: 30 euro

[smooth]

Dude, that 9.99 euro price for TF2 is a holiday sale only, ending on 2nd January. the usual price is 19.99 euro which is higher than the usual price of 15 euro. I don't know that shopireland place, but Amazon has those "discounts" permanently, just to show how cool they are. Actually, after checking out that shopireland page, it doesn't say anywhere that it is time limited discount, but it just says "our price", suggesting it is permanent. So here you have your cold hard facts.

Let us consider other comparison: Left4Dead
Steam: 45 euro (was 50 just after currency change, lol), now on sale for 33 euro until 2nd january. So it is 45 euro that counts.
Retail: 30 euro
Yes, let's compare L4D...but let's include some links for evidence instead of pulling numbers from our butts
steam
http://store.steampowered.com/app/500/
full price 44.99 euro
sale price 33.74 euro

amazon france
http://www.amazon.fr/Electronic-Arts-Left-4-dead/dp/B001DF7JGY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230506735&sr=8-1
48.52 euro

amazon Germany
http://www.amazon.de/Electronic-Arts-GmbH-Left-Dead/dp/B001EKPVYU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230506889&sr=8-1
49.99 euro

It doesn't look like you've got much more ammo...how about we try another Valve game...

EDIT: *cough* for the lulz
http://www.ebgames.com.au/PC/product.cfm?ID=7307
99.99

[Karma_Police]

Yes, let's compare L4D...but let's include some links for evidence instead of pulling numbers from our butts
steam
http://store.steampowered.com/app/500/
full price 44.99 euro
sale price 33.74 euro

amazon france
http://www.amazon.fr/Electronic-Arts-Left-4-dead/dp/B001DF7JGY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230506735&sr=8-1
48.52 euro

amazon Germany
http://www.amazon.de/Electronic-Arts-GmbH-Left-Dead/dp/B001EKPVYU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230506889&sr=8-1
49.99 euro

It doesn't look like you've got much more ammo...how about we try another Valve game...

play.com:
http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/5826422/Left-4-Dead/Product.html
37.99 €

sendit.com:
http://www.sendit.com/sendit/9998497.product
35.49 €

thehut.com:
http://www.thehut.com/hut/9998497.product
35.43 €

I'll concede that I couldn't find the orange box much cheaper than on steam. So I guess when l4d is 29.99€ on steam, it will also be 29.99€ on these places.

[Xzior]

Yes, let's compare L4D...but let's include some links for evidence instead of pulling numbers from our butts
steam
http://store.steampowered.com/app/500/
full price 44.99 euro
sale price 33.74 euro

amazon france
http://www.amazon.fr/Electronic-Arts-Left-4-dead/dp/B001DF7JGY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230506735&sr=8-1
48.52 euro

amazon Germany
http://www.amazon.de/Electronic-Arts-GmbH-Left-Dead/dp/B001EKPVYU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230506889&sr=8-1
49.99 euro

It doesn't look like you've got much more ammo...how about we try another Valve game...

EDIT: *cough* for the lulz
http://www.ebgames.com.au/PC/product.cfm?ID=7307
99.99

Amazon UK
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Left-4-Dead-PC-DVD/dp/B001GIOGDW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230507391&sr=8-1
£26.99 = 28.66 €

[Faur]

One of the shops I normally use here in norway. Orange Box, 23.9€
http://www.zailor.no/index.php?m=0&c=0&SCREEN=item&item=54588&department=&Group=1&Sector=8

L4D, 38€
http://www.zailor.no/index.php?m=0&c=0&SCREEN=item&item=173808&department=&Group=1&Sector=0

Edit: Some other random ones:

L4D 38€
http://www.spaceworld.no/wsp/spaceworld/frontend.cgi?func=catalog.show&table=PRODUCT&categorynu=&func_id=18059&globsearch=left%204%20dead

OB 29€
http://www.spaceworld.no/wsp/spaceworld/frontend.cgi?func=catalog.show&table=PRODUCT&categorynu=&func_id=14445&globsearch=orange%20box

L4D 40€
http://www.elkjop.no/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/store-elkjop-Site/no_NO/-/NOK/El_DisplayProductInformation-Start;pgid=oyCz6oZK.LxSR0EjcIZBwx1e00009W-XrECM?ProductID=PrTD4QFHie8AAAEdGTB812gR&CatalogCategoryID=

OB 35€
http://www.elkjop.no/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/store-elkjop-Site/no_NO/-/NOK/ViewSearch-Start;pgid=oyCz6oZK.LxSR0EjcIZBwx1e00009W-XrECM;sid=RRamPa89C1inPeZlSq5sO07-sNSTaJ9YTs0=?searchtext=orange+box&categories=&submit=submit

L4D 38€
http://cdon.no/spill/left_4_dead-714910

OB 33€
http://cdon.no/spill/half_life_2_orange_box-769901

OB 20€
http://www.siba.no/Products/Product.aspx?id=1547132

[Unfeared]

O snap, do they ship outside Norway?

[smooth]

Amazon UK
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Left-4-Dead-PC-DVD/dp/B001GIOGDW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1230507391&sr=8-1
£26.99 = 28.66 €
You ever heard of the phrase apples to apples?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/500/
reg 26.99 pounds
sale 20.24 pounds

you were saying?

[smooth]

One of the shops I normally use here in norway. Orange Box, 23.9€
http://www.zailor.no/index.php?m=0&c=0&SCREEN=item&item=54588&department=&Group=1&Sector=8

L4D, 38€
http://www.zailor.no/index.php?m=0&c=0&SCREEN=item&item=173808&department=&Group=1&Sector=0

O snap, do they ship outside Norway?
Didn't someone say earlier that Norway doesn't charge VAT for video games?
(btw, isn't that Kr 239 and not euros?)

You guys realize that every single price you've listed is more expensive than steam? Unfeared, why would you want to ship OB from Norway for 23.9 Kr when you can buy it from steam for less? or were you talking about shipping L4D from Norway for 38 Kr (like 34.5 euros, right?) when it's only 33.74 euro right now from steam?

Am I living in an alternate universe where you guys think you're illustrating the supposed 40% overcharge Valve is trying to pull on you guys with these links?

[stereophonic]

btw, isn't that Kr 239 and not euros?

http://www.google.se/search?&q=239+NOK+to+Euro

Seriously, couldn't you have figured that out yourself? Are you sure you even understand what different currencies are?

[Faur]

Didn't someone say earlier that Norway doesn't charge VAT for video games?
(btw, isn't that Kr 239 and not euros?)

We don't charge for digital downloads. We do charge for boxed copies. That is why boxed copies are/were usually more expensive for us. The VAT that valve charges for their downloads goes into their own pockets.

What does kr. vs euros have to do with anything? I'm debating price, not the currency format. I don't give a jack if they ask me to pay in dollars, euros, yen, or rupees. I will go to the cheapest alternative, whether it's importing from hyrule or buying across the street.
I'm only trying to argue that there is no point at all in buying from steam when it's as expensive as it is now.

[Smurfy12]

apples to apples

dust to dust

[smooth]

http://www.google.se/search?&q=239+NOK+to+Euro

Seriously, couldn't you have figured that out yourself? Are you sure you even understand what different currencies are?
Isn't that exactly what I pointed out?
You realize that's for OB which is currently 26.99 euros right now on steam?

Your link says 239 NOK is 24 euros...are you just being silly?

We don't charge for digital downloads. We do charge for boxed copies. That is why boxed copies are/were usually more expensive for us. The VAT that valve charges for their downloads goes into their own pockets.

What does kr. vs euros have to do with anything? I'm debating price, not the currency format. I don't give a jack if they ask me to pay in dollars, euros, yen, or rupees. I will go to the cheapest alternative, whether it's importing from hyrule or buying across the street.
I'm only trying to argue that there is no point at all in buying from steam when it's as expensive as it is now.
The reason why it's important to convert it to Euros is because steam's prices are in euros. OMFG, convert NOK to Euros and they're basically the same price! (does that price even include VAT)!!!

[stereophonic]

Isn't that exactly what I pointed out?
You realize that's for OB which is currently 26.99 euros right now on steam?

Your link says 239 NOK is 24 euros...are you just being silly?

What did you point out again? That it's still cheaper for Norwegians to buy real games in a real stores?

[Faur]

The reason why it's important to convert it to Euros is because steam's prices are in euros. OMFG, convert NOK to Euros and they're basically the same price! (does that price even include VAT)!!!

I converted it for you. Yes they include VAT.

I wouldn't call 20€ non-sale "nearly the same" as 27€ on sale.

And while I'm at it - norway is not part of EU hence we don't use euros and we never have, so why should we have to use it for steam?

[mouton]

It doesn't look like you've got much more ammo...how about we try another Valve game...
And yet you conveniently ignored the fact that the price of Team Fortress 2 is lower in other online shops. According to Your links. Please do not invoke the holiday discount price again.

Wait, are you just trying to tell everyone in this thousand page thread that we didn't see for ourselves how insane the prices are? Like, those are not the prices you are looking for? Move along? Uh, sure man, whatever.

[smooth]

I converted it for you. Yes they include VAT.

I wouldn't call 20€ non-sale "nearly the same" as 27€ on sale.

And while I'm at it - norway is not part of EU hence we don't use euros and we never have, so why should we have to use it for steam?
It's not a 20 euro difference liar...it's 24.5 euros compared to 26 on steam.

Stop the insanity, ROFL, every single link I posted was less expensive on steam.

[Faur]

It's not a 20 euro difference liar...it's 24.5 euros compared to 26 on steam.

Stop the insanity, ROFL, every single link I posted was less expensive on steam.

http://www.siba.no/Products/Product.aspx?id=1547132
http://www.siba.no/Products/Product.aspx?id=1547132
http://www.siba.no/Products/Product.aspx?id=1547132
http://www.siba.no/Products/Product.aspx?id=1547132
http://www.siba.no/Products/Product.aspx?id=1547132

[MortalC]

I see its link time so I might as well jump on the wagon, and I want to add straight away that the retail prices are with taxes and where I live we don’t pay taxes for digital purchases so the Steam prices are without taxes. 10 NOK = 1 Euro.

Far Cry 2
20 Euro with discount, normally 35 Euros with taxes. (http://cdon.no/spill/far_cry_2-874718)

Steam price 38 Euro with discount, normally 50 Euro without taxes. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/19900/)

Left 4 Dead

Normal price 35 Euro with taxes. (http://www.elprice.no/nye-produkter-ifra-import/left-4-dead-pc-pcleft4dead)

Steam price 34 Euro with discount, normaly 45 Euro without taxes. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/500/)

Grand Theft Auto 4
Normal price 35 Euros with taxes. (http://www.siba.no/products/product.aspx?ID=2024809)

Steam price 45 Euro with discount, 50 Euro without taxes. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/12210/)

But seriously we can compare prices for the next month and it wont really make a differene…

[Xzior]

You ever heard of the phrase apples to apples?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/500/
reg 26.99 pounds
sale 20.24 pounds

you were saying?

All I'm saying is that it's cheaper for me to order a copy from another country in the EU, then it is to buy from Steam.

Steam price for L4D:
Reg - 44,99€
Sale - 33,74€

Amazon UK
Reg - 28.66 €

The recommended retail price that Amazon UK has listed for L4D is 37.16 €. So even if Amazon UK would for some reason raise the price and set it at the rrp, it's still lower than Steams regular price.

[mouton]

It's not a 20 euro difference liar...it's 24.5 euros compared to 26 on steam.
The Steam price is 29.99 euro for Orange Box. I would like to remind you that the 26.99 price (yes, 26.99, not 26) is only valid for a few more days. Please, do stop omitting that detail, it makes the our discussion slightly less pleasant.

EDIT: ROFL, our friend got a suspension. I knew someone was trolling here. And one of my posts even got caught in the crossfire, but i don't care! Go Mods! :D

[MortalC]

It's not a 20 euro difference liar...it's 24.5 euros compared to 26 on steam.

How is 24,07 the same as 24,5?

[impar]

Greetings!

All the discussion is... "entertaining" to read, but the hard fact is that it is cheaper to order a retail game than buying from Steam at regular prices, in most of Europe.
Some of the current Steam promotions are appealing, others are not.

What I dont understand is why some members not affected by the recent € price increase keep posting in this thread.

[rotNdude]

I am going to post this one time and one time only. You have all been warned about being trolls, flamebaiters and just being rather mean regarding this whole situation. We generally accept being upset by things very well when it affects you personally, but we will not take prisoners in matters like this and you will not be given much respect if you cannot post in a civil and constructive manner. If we continue to have to moderate this thread as much as we have, this thread will disappear. It is really just turning into a rant and rave thread with many and the unaffected are coming in here posting to rile up the rest of you. From this point on, if any of you post any demeaning, trolling, flamebaiting or non-civil or unconstructive comments in this thread, you will suffer the consequences. Enough is enough!

[Simplex]

Lets not provoke and not get provoked.

[Moon_Child1607]

Wow Valve... what a stupid move... being more expensive that retail sellers?... :eek:

[aslan00]

Greetings!

All the discussion is... "entertaining" to read, but the hard fact is that it is cheaper to order a retail game than buying from Steam at regular prices, in most of Europe.
Some of the current Steam promotions are appealing, others are not.

What I dont understand is why some members not affected by the recent € price increase keep posting in this thread.


I can tell you why. That's because some of us affected post our grief in other non-related threads which leads them to troll as well in our thread.

[Dr DooM]

oh dear looks like I'm not buying anything from steam for a while...and EVEN IF they get this sorted I'll have found a better place to buy from by then.

some of us cant be bothered with second rate service, especially in these harsh times.

[vinster345]

Wow Valve... what a stupid move... being more expensive that retail sellers?... :eek:

yup, hence why i bought retail and not steam for L4D

[HobbitStomper]

More than 170 pages of comments:

BOTTOM LINE IS:

Its not about comparing prices with retail sellers, its the fact that Valve introduced the EURO for European countries and now we european have to pay up to 40% more in the Steam Store than usual!

[Draggeta]

This thread is going downhill fast.

Some of it is caused by smooth and his "insensitive" posts. He makes some very good posts and has corrected us quite a lot here. Also he brings up some interesting questions, such as the Valve/Apple comparison

However, even though his posts are theoretically correct, angry people are not easily soothed. To some, we might seem like whiners, but Steam has been more expensive than retail, even here in Europe. For a new release we might pay (depending on the shop, country etc.) 30-45 Euro's. The problem is that, while being more expensive than retail, the prices went up by 15-40% and in some case more. If I remember correctly, I even saw a 70% increase on a game. Imagine if that happened to the people in the US.

However, we are also to blame. We have a right to be angry, but you should also use logic. Valve might advice prices, but does not set them. Valve shouldn't make stores unaccessable, but they might have to because of publishers. Also, stop harassing smooth. He is somewhat harsh in his words (whiners), but the content of his posts do ring true.

[mouton]

Valve might advice prices, but does not set them. Valve shouldn't make stores unaccessable, but they might have to because of publishers.
Since they risk losing a lot of sales, then perhaps they should have better advised the publishers about the prices and agreed to different deals. At the end of the day the publishers don't care, they will sell their games this way or another. It is Valve that will lose on this.

But again, shifting blame away from Valve is problematic when their own games went through the very same price "conversion" as the third party titles did. It all looks as if Valve didn't really mind rising prices to such levels.

[Draggeta]

Sorry, meant to say that Valve doesn't set publisher prices. On Steam they are their own publishers, so they set their own prices.

[aob]

I still refuse to buy anything over steam until this absurd PRICE HIKE, yes PRICE HIKE , for your European customers has been lifted.

Frankly, Valve you can remove EA and Ubisoft the EU store again, and for good, if the only reason they decided to finally sell games to us Europeans was on the condition that they got to jack up their prices in €.

I totally expect regional pricing from EA, a company I refuse to support but not from Valve and your Steam platform.

Valve, please listen to your EU customers, the one's who've supported your games and service throughout the years, put yourselves in our shoes, and how unjust it'd feel to have a sudden price hike solely because of your "location" on the internet

[Revoid]

I am going to post this one time and one time only. You have all been warned about being trolls, flamebaiters and just being rather mean regarding this whole situation. We generally accept being upset by things very well when it affects you personally, but we will not take prisoners in matters like this and you will not be given much respect if you cannot post in a civil and constructive manner. If we continue to have to moderate this thread as much as we have, this thread will disappear. It is really just turning into a rant and rave thread with many and the unaffected are coming in here posting to rile up the rest of you. From this point on, if any of you post any demeaning, trolling, flamebaiting or non-civil or unconstructive comments in this thread, you will suffer the consequences. Enough is enough!

well being totally ignored by everyone expt the forum mods is kinda annoying and i still can not belive after all this time there is still no official response. games are more expensive. and the Christmas sale only brings prices back to normal Pre $=€. (talking about the 20-40% off)

this is tho ofc all very useless we wont get a response, its way to easy to hide behind computer screens.

[-Mew-]

I still refuse to buy anything over steam until this absurd PRICE HIKE, yes PRICE HIKE , for your European customers has been lifted.

Frankly, Valve you can remove EA and Ubisoft the EU store again, and for good, if the only reason they decided to finally sell games to us Europeans was on the condition that they got to jack up their prices in €.

I totally expect regional pricing from EA, a company I refuse to support but not from Valve and your Steam platform.

Valve, please listen to your EU customers, the one's who've supported your games and service throughout the years, put yourselves in our shoes, and how unjust it'd feel to have a sudden price hike solely because of your "location" on the internet

I have to agree, the reason I never bought games form EA digitally and I wanted to buy Red Alert 3 and some other games, is the ridiculous pricing... I mean the UK store is the cheapest then it's the US store with the normal 50$ per game and then comes the EU store with 50€ per game ... I can get 3 games in the US store for the price of 2 in the EU :mad:

[ReBoot]

That's why I suggested an ability to buy games in the US/UK although sitting somewhere in Europe. When buying the game from Steam if course. That would solve everything.

[Kaiser Soze]

Mmm, I have bought a game during this Xmas and they have charged me 1 more euro for no known reason. I've used my Visa, just I have used in the old $ times.

anyone else had this problem?

I will ask support for an explanation (and to get my 1€ back)

[DJMurtz]

Wow, I haven't checked in several days and still no anwser from VALVe (except of course by their moderators)... sad

[jalf]

Some of it is caused by smooth and his "insensitive" posts. He makes some very good posts and has corrected us quite a lot here. Also he brings up some interesting questions, such as the Valve/Apple comparison

Hardly. He was right about Apple, and that was a good point to bring up. For the rest though, I can't honestly say he was "right". Comparing Steam discount prices to retail nondiscount, comparing Steam to the most *expensive* retailers you can find to conclude that Steam is competetive, and screwing up big-time on the exchange rates (100 AUD = 100 USD?) is not what I'd correct.

Of course you may not be aware of this because the mods deleted about 8 of his posts last night (and everyone else's too. It got pretty heated). Just be aware of this before you jump to anyone's defense.

In other news, I just bought Portal and BG&E as a belated gift for a friend. Those two games, at least, are nicely priced for the moment... ;)
But it's not quite as good as the 100+ dollars I'd intended to spend now that EA's and Ubisoft's games are available.

[Smurfy12]

What do you even talk about in this thread? It just seems to be the same thing every page. A couple of "angry internet man" posts, a couple of posts saying "WE PAY 40% MORE :OOOO" in big letters, it's all just the same.

[strandedPL]

What do you even talk about in this thread? It just seems to be the same thing every page. A couple of "angry internet man" posts, a couple of posts saying "WE PAY 40% MORE :OOOO" in big letters, it's all just the same.

Because they can.

[Smurfy12]

What do you even talk about in this thread?

Because they can.

:confused:

[mouton]

What do you even talk about in this thread? It just seems to be the same thing every page. A couple of "angry internet man" posts, a couple of posts saying "WE PAY 40% MORE :OOOO" in big letters, it's all just the same.
Yes, exactly.

You see, people tend to get angry when prices that are already relatively high rise even more under the pretext of "currency change". You are not forced to read or reply in this thread either.

Edit: Btw, your post seems quite pointless and trollish. I wouldn't do it in this thread, mods have very short patience around here.

[strandedPL]

:confused:

They can post anything they want according to the thread. If your country has nice prices just leave the thread. Simple as that.

[Karma_Police]

What do you even talk about in this thread? It just seems to be the same thing every page. A couple of "angry internet man" posts, a couple of posts saying "WE PAY 40% MORE :OOOO" in big letters, it's all just the same.

Your point being?
People come here to vent their frustration. Think it's annoying having people complaining about the European prices on other threads? Imagine how much worse it would be if this one didn't exit.

[pmart]

Holly **** :d 174 pages ^^

So i'm living in UE and if i pay for game in $ what will happened to me, valve will block my account? My credit card is set up to dollars payments so changing PLN to $ and next to euro will be not very cheap :/

[strandedPL]

Holly **** :d 174 pages ^^

So i'm living in UE and if i pay for game in $ what will happened to me, valve will block my account? My credit card is set up to dollars payments so changing PLN to $ and next to euro will be not very cheap :/

I have the same problem, but at least I have PayPal (I can chose any currency to pay with).

And you cannot pay in $ if you live in Poland, that's it. To pay in dollars you need to be in USA and have an American credit card or American PayPal.

You can, however, receive gifts from American Steam users, so if you have for example a brother in USA you can ask him to gift you the game. It's legal because I've asked about it in the Steam Support and they said it is.

Good luck!

[mouton]

Holly **** :d 174 pages ^^

So i'm living in UE and if i pay for game in $ what will happened to me, valve will block my account? My credit card is set up to dollars payments so changing PLN to $ and next to euro will be not very cheap :/
Well, you cannot pay in USD. If you use a credit card in USD, the bank will convert it to euro for the transaction anyway. Theoretically it could bring additional costs, but when i bought stuff for around 50 PLN recently using my USD credit card, the sum shown by the bank was almost exactly what i expected, maybe 1 PLN more, so not a big deal. So i don't think additional currency conversions are a real issue here.

EDIT: Lol, I checked the exact values from the receipts and my bank's Euro rates from the day of the purchase and it seems that I paid 1 PLN less total than it should be according to the selling price of Euro. So no matter how the bank manages it, the system seems quite fair and foolproof.

[ClarkF1]

Looks like it's going to be 1€ = £1 in the exchange rates.

Even more of an incentive for Valve to change the € prices but I doubt it'll happen in the near future.

[pmart]

Hmmmm so i need to contact my friend from USA :D

[Kaiser Soze]

Mmm, I have bought a game during this Xmas and they have charged me 1 more euro for no known reason. I've used my Visa, just I have used in the old $ times.

anyone else had this problem?

I will ask support for an explanation (and to get my 1€ back)
BTW: This is not an error post, I posted it here since it seems related to the new euro politics of steam.
If they are going to increase all prices 1€ for no reason plus the 1€=1$ then I will be really angry, even more since that 1€ was not marked on my bill.

I'll wait for the support answer.

[Unshaved]

I am going to post this one time and one time only. You have all been warned about being trolls, flamebaiters and just being rather mean regarding this whole situation. We generally accept being upset by things very well when it affects you personally, but we will not take prisoners in matters like this and you will not be given much respect if you cannot post in a civil and constructive manner. If we continue to have to moderate this thread as much as we have, this thread will disappear. It is really just turning into a rant and rave thread with many and the unaffected are coming in here posting to rile up the rest of you. From this point on, if any of you post any demeaning, trolling, flamebaiting or non-civil or unconstructive comments in this thread, you will suffer the consequences. Enough is enough!
THANK YOU! I will love you forever! :o



Anyway.. It seems like the euro is rising again.. Even if VALVe doesn't do a thing about the euro pricing they cant deny anything if the euro is going to get the same value as the the pound.... or even more, then it'd be even worse for them.

[*VeLeRoN*]

even more since that 1€ was not marked on my bill.
I'll wait for the support answer.
Had this issue, that's what they replied:
Thank you for contacting Steam Support.
This charge should be dropped after 24 hours.
If you have any other question please feel free to contact Steam Support.

[abrasion]

<SNIP>
Valve, please listen to your EU customers, the one's who've supported your games and service throughout the years, put yourselves in our shoes, and how unjust it'd feel to have a sudden price hike solely because of your "location" on the internet



This really says it all, completely.
This is 2009 basically and people have to pay more because they aren't in the USA - weak weak weak.

[Smurfy12]

This is 2009

Lies .

[F3nya]

Wow what a greap present for Christmas from Valve... thank you so much Valve.
Retail games are now actually cheaper than from Steam, what bs.
I won't buy another game from Steam now, untill they let me the option to change the currency format.

[Smurfy12]

Wow what a greap present for Christmas from Valve... thank you so much Valve.
Retail games are now actually cheaper than from Steam, what bs.
I won't buy another game from Steam now, untill they let me the option to change the currency format.

I think we'd established that actually. That had become fairly clear within the first two pages of this thread and I got the feeling that we were ready to move the conversation forward.

[abrasion]

I doni't see how a single person on the entire internet would ask for 'localised pricing' - it's pretty much a fact US consumers ALWAYS get the damned lowest prices.

Even after exchange rate and fees - it's normally cheaper for us (Australia) hence we're happy to pay US$ for steam games.

There should be an option to chose one or the other (or all 3? US / EU / UK) - taking away the US option is a joke.
I am guessing we can still just gift stuff to people right? someon in the USA can gift to an EU buddy?

[Smurfy12]

I doni't see how a single person on the entire internet would ask for 'localised pricing' - it's pretty much a fact US consumers ALWAYS get the damned lowest prices.

Everyone was asking for localised pricing. And everyone in the UK got what they wanted.

[Oggy1985]

will Steam finally give some official comment on this issue?

i would like to see two answered questions in their response:
1. why did they do that unfair conversion? (i doubt that they're unaware of currency differences)
2. will (and when will) they correct this mess (make fair prices for European customers)?

I think that a quality official response (and not just a few words on 3rd party forum) form Steam would solve many raised questions and stop spamming and all the other mess that has been going on on this topic.

Thank you very much.

[CoreFree]

Everyone was asking for localised pricing. And everyone in the UK got what they wanted.

What's the point of trying to counter people who are venting their perfectly reasonable anger? Are you trying to invoke a discussion? The facts are pretty clear and they cause people to be pissed off at Valve. If you are not affected or if you are okay with it then what is the point of posting in this thread?

[abrasion]

Everyone was asking for localised pricing. And everyone in the UK got what they wanted.

WHY?
Even the British are ripped off compared to the US.
Anyone who has used the internet for more than a year and spoken on forums to Americans, Aussies, British, New Zealanders, South Africans, Europeans - it's ALWAYS the same!

USA get it stupidly cheap, hard disks, cars, food, software, everything.
Canada sometimes similar to US price or slightly more expensive (occassionally a lot more which pisses them off, like the X360)

Australia pay a damn "foreigner tax" as does the UK and most other countries, varies from country to country.
Sadly it's never 'exhange rate +10%' which is a nice, fair figure, it's normally more like 'exchange rate +25%' for things :/

Anyhow, long story short is that if an item is 45$ US and they pay with the powerful UK pound, it shouldn't cost them much except exchange fees.
Fools.

I for one do NOT want localised AU pricing, that would piss me off just as much as the people in this thread.
(We foreigners ALL get ripped off enough as it is, steam was one product we got to enjoy semi reasonable pricing on foreign goods for, keep it that way - it's half the reason it's frigging popular!)

Oh and they ♥♥♥♥ed us too recently anyhow.
http://archive.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=3&c=12&t=13836

[Simplex]

If you are not affected or if you are okay with it then what is the point of posting in this thread?

To troll and flame, why else?

[Kaiser Soze]

Well, I live in europe, but I'm unsure of the knowledge of Europe for others non europeans reading this therad so, I'll try to explain a few thing:
- there are a lot of countries here, around 50.
- The EU is around 30
- The Euro is just for 11 (next year I think there will be a few more here).

There are laws in the EU that are trying to make those countries a "one market", with the exception of thing that are not allowed by internal law.

that "one market" doesn't mean than every company should have the same price in every country. However, they cannot forbid one costumer in country A to buy something in a store of country B, if both countries are inside EU.

Thats why playcom in UK can sell across europe and companies cannot do anything against them while they could forbid importations from Asia.

I know that even if Valve could do it that doesn't mean they have to. But here is the trick. Valve can use different prices in every country (which is in fact what they are doing using expensives prices in countries with no VAT). But I think they must allow EU customers (and remember that are many European countries that are not EU) to access to the UK Steam store and use their EU credit cards there. Not allowing that would be against the "one market" European laws. Only if those product were against the local laws (which may happen in Germany since they have a lot of censorship in games) Valve could ague something against this.

"One market" is not to force every store to have the same prices. But to allow customer to use whatever store they want inside the market. And this is where I think Valve is violating EU laws.

No matter what publisher wanted. Publisher may have different prices in retail stores in different countries, sure. But they cannot forbid a customer from A to buy in the store of country B.

Once publisher have agreed to go online stores, well, they cannot forbid me to go and shop in any store in any other EU country.

they can set different prices in Norway (and they should, without VAT), they can even forbid me to buy there, since I'm not Norwegian and Norway is not in the EU. But they must allow me to buy in the UK store if I want to.

What they can do is force me to the same product. I mean: only in english, for instance, if in the UK thats the version they are selling, that would be legal. But not allow me (as an EU customer) to buy there is not.

I cannot ask legally for a good euro-dollar conversion (I can whine, rant and refuse to buy, but nothing more).

But I can ask for my right to have access to the UK store since they cannot discriminate me just for living in other country (but inside EU). That would be against EU laws.

[azraeel101]

Anyway.. It seems like the euro is rising again.. Even if VALVe doesn't do a thing about the euro pricing they cant deny anything if the euro is going to get the same value as the the pound.... or even more, then it'd be even worse for them.

In my country the euro is on par with the british pound already. So I don't get it, if my country doesn't use the euro as currency (and won't in the next 5 years) why can't I buy games in pounds? Why am I forced to use the euro? It doesn't make any sense..

[Deltasniper]

USA get it stupidly cheap, hard disks, cars, food, software, everything.
Canada sometimes similar to US price or slightly more expensive (occassionally a lot more which pisses them off, like the X360)



I wonder why with your high taxation.
Mind you, most states only pay 6% tax, and most states don't pay taxes over the internet.

[mouton]

I think we'd established that actually. That had become fairly clear within the first two pages of this thread and I got the feeling that we were ready to move the conversation forward.
You cannot require anyone sane to actually read previous posts of this thread. So please stop with the "end this thread" troll comments. And it's not like you are contributing anything new either.

[Lance_Lake]

If you are not affected or if you are okay with it then what is the point of posting in this thread?

From what you are saying, it appears you are not welcoming any opposing point of view. Therefore, it stops being a discussion and is just a rant.

If you are feeling that no one who lives in the UK and who agrees with Valve should post in this thread, why even have this thread then? It stops being a discussion and continues to be just a place to blow off steam (pun intended).

There are laws in the EU that are trying to make those countries a "one market", with the exception of thing that are not allowed by internal law.

IMNAL, but I do not believe an American company with no offices in the EU is held accountable for EU laws. I also don't believe Valve is breaking any international laws..

So why bring up laws that don't apply?

[sfaok]

Has there been an official response from Valve to this situation yet?

[Europhoria]

Australia pay a damn "foreigner tax" as does the UK and most other countries, varies from country to country.Sadly it's never 'exhange rate +10%' which is a nice, fair figure, it's normally more like 'exchange rate +25%' for things :/

Foreigner tax? We don't pay GST (Goods and Services Tax for those outside Australia) on imported goods (at least digitally distributed goods) as far as I know. I pay what ever the store front says in USD.

[snaileri]

Nothing yet, and I think they won't comment, beucase they want to keep the prices this way.. This really sucks.
Not fun to buy a product from a store where some customers gets the exact same product 1/3 cheaper than you.
Valve has been rolling down hill since summer.. It's all about the money nowadays in the industry.

More people will download stuff illegally from torrent sites because of this. Digital content delivery is the right way to sell games, but not when customers are beign treated unequally.

What happened to you, Valve?

[mouton]

From what you are saying, it appears you are not welcoming any opposing point of view. Therefore, it stops being a discussion and is just a rant.
Please, if you have something to add, do so. Accusing each other of stifling Free Speech is not the way to go. Please understand that most of those who are unaffected by the price change and posted in this thread were like "Steam is awesome, so stop whining and just buy the overpriced products. And they are not really overpriced, you deserve those prices" so it is natural to be wary.

So why bring up laws that don't apply?
Who cares about the laws, what matters most is Valve's apparent bad treatment of their customers. Anything past this is secondary.

[tvangstr0ye]

This thread is intended to allow you, as affected customers, to express civil and constructive opinions regarding how this affects you and what can be done to overcome this currency issue.

I'm not sure why but somehow you think this is our screwup to fix?

I'm not buying anything, hope to god that the rest of you people aren't either.

[Draggeta]

@jfar

Sorry, didn't read all his posts, and what you say may be true. If so, ignoring is enough, no need to go back and forth then :)

Anyway, bought a few games over the past few days which were worth it. BG&E, Dawn of War Pack and R6V.

[Lance_Lake]

Please, if you have something to add, do so. Accusing each other of stifling Free Speech is not the way to go. Please understand that most of those who are unaffected by the price change and posted in this thread were like "Steam is awesome, so stop whining and just buy the overpriced products. And they are not really overpriced, you deserve those prices" so it is natural to be wary.

Umm... Who brought up free speech? I was mearly making the point that if you limit this thread to only one viewpoint, it stops being a discussion.

Who cares about the laws, what matters most is Valve's apparent bad treatment of their customers. Anything past this is secondary.

The person who I was replying to brought up the laws.. So I was replying that they don't really apply at this time.

[Europhoria]

I'm not sure why but somehow you think this is our screwup to fix?

I'm not buying anything, hope to god that the rest of you people aren't either.

One way you can help 'fix' this situation is by applying pressure on the publishers to adjust their prices more suited to European customers. Write them a letter, email, fax etc. The more support from the customers Valve get, the greater the chance they will be able to convince the publishers to reconsider.

Edit: Forgot to add, while the chances of management reading your correspondence is small, it's worth a try.

[CoreFree]

From what you are saying, it appears you are not welcoming any opposing point of view. Therefore, it stops being a discussion and is just a rant.

If you are feeling that no one who lives in the UK and who agrees with Valve should post in this thread, why even have this thread then? It stops being a discussion and continues to be just a place to blow off steam (pun intended).


"This thread is intended to allow you, as affected customers, to express civil and constructive opinions regarding how this affects you and what can be done to overcome this currency issue"

Are you one of the affected customers? Besides, I would like to know what kind of "discussion" you think can take place regarding this subject. It is a fact that prices have increased up to 40% overnight for EU customers (except UK). There is no valid reason to do so and to "discuss" this is pointless in my opinion.


IMNAL, but I do not believe an American company with no offices in the EU is held accountable for EU laws. I also don't believe Valve is breaking any international laws..

So why bring up laws that don't apply?

I'm not sure about this, but it seems to me that valve is operating in the european market, meaning EU laws apply.

[Freyar]

Even from my side of the pond (US) it seems ridiculous.

[MortalC]

IMNAL, but I do not believe an American company with no offices in the EU is held accountable for EU laws. I also don't believe Valve is breaking any international laws..

So why bring up laws that don't apply?

Even if you don’t have an office in a country, you still have to follow the laws in that country as long as you offer your services to that country. There is currently a case running in Norway regarding iTunes. Products marketed to Norwegian consumers in Norway are subject to Norwegian law - a right that cannot be waived by a clause in a company´s standard customer contract," (http://www.forbrukerombudet.no/index.gan?id=11032467&subid=0)

[Lance_Lake]

Even if you don’t have an office in a country, you still have to follow the laws in that country as long as you offer your services to that country. There is currently a case running in Norway regarding iTunes. Products marketed to Norwegian consumers in Norway are subject to Norwegian law - a right that cannot be waived by a clause in a company´s standard customer contract," (http://www.forbrukerombudet.no/index.gan?id=11032467&subid=0)

I respectfully disagree. If that is so, then any company on the internet needs to follow every law for every country.

I point you to the Pirate Bay. They seem to have it in their heads that they don't need to follow US law as they have no servers in the US. Most legal people agree with them.

Valve has no offices or servers in those countries (as far as I know). If I am incorrect, please point me to the information as to what they own in the EU. Otherwise, their laws are not applicable.

[SniperFox]

I respectfully disagree. If that is so, then any company on the internet needs to follow every law for every country.

I point you to the Pirate Bay. They seem to have it in their heads that they don't need to follow US law as they have no servers in the US. Most legal people agree with them.

Valve has no offices or servers in those countries (as far as I know). If I am incorrect, please point me to the information as to what they own in the EU. Otherwise, their laws are not applicable.

The difference is that Valve sells a product to european citizens. If the said company does not follow the sales laws of that country or continent, then it is not permitted to sell products in that region.

[CoreFree]

I respectfully disagree. If that is so, then any company on the internet needs to follow every law for every country.

I point you to the Pirate Bay. They seem to have it in their heads that they don't need to follow US law as they have no servers in the US. Most legal people agree with them.

Valve has no offices or servers in those countries (as far as I know). If I am incorrect, please point me to the information as to what they own in the EU. Otherwise, their laws are not applicable.

You disagree with what? A fact? I don't know if your comparison with TPB will hold, since you point out they do not have servers in the US and they do not "sell" services (not sure if thats relevant).

Valve does have content servers in europe (found this: http://www.ravencity.de/~phillip/steam/Steam_Content_Server_Daten.txt). By european law, territorial sales restrictions are illegal, which is what valve is doing here. Therefore I think valve is violating EU law, which has been pointed out in this thread before..

[Xzior]

IMNAL, but I do not believe an American company with no offices in the EU is held accountable for EU laws. I also don't believe Valve is breaking any international laws..

So why bring up laws that don't apply?

Well, I do believe you're wrong.

WTF???!!
9,99 EUR - original price
14,28 USD - final price
I received it from my bank day after transaction (I bought Gmod).
normally I paid 12.19$ for the 10$ game (VAT). I have to agree with you guys, that's just robbery!

And I dont know why "place of transaction" is:
STEAMGAMES.COM
LONDON, GB
I'm from Poland, what London and GB has to my transaction?

[MortalC]

I respectfully disagree. If that is so, then any company on the internet needs to follow every law for every country.

I point you to the Pirate Bay. They seem to have it in their heads that they don't need to follow US law as they have no servers in the US. Most legal people agree with them.

Valve has no offices or servers in those countries (as far as I know). If I am incorrect, please point me to the information as to what they own in the EU. Otherwise, their laws are not applicable.

No offence but what someone says on a steam forum doesn’t really matter. It is the law and that you disagree with it is fine but it doesn’t change the fact that by law they can’t do it.

Apple has no offices in Norway but can still be taken to court here (http://www.forbrukerombudet.no/index.gan?id=11039037&subid=0). And for those that were wondering Forbrukerombudet is the Norwegian version of BEUC (http://www.beuc.eu/Content/Default.asp?PageID=591).

[Unshaved]

Well, I live in europe, but I'm unsure of the knowledge of Europe for others non europeans reading this therad so, I'll try to explain a few thing:
- there are a lot of countries here, around 50.
- The EU is around 30
- The Euro is just for 11 (next year I think there will be a few more here).

There are laws in the EU that are trying to make those countries a "one market", with the exception of thing that are not allowed by internal law.

that "one market" doesn't mean than every company should have the same price in every country. However, they cannot forbid one costumer in country A to buy something in a store of country B, if both countries are inside EU.

Thats why playcom in UK can sell across europe and companies cannot do anything against them while they could forbid importations from Asia.

I know that even if Valve could do it that doesn't mean they have to. But here is the trick. Valve can use different prices in every country (which is in fact what they are doing using expensives prices in countries with no VAT). But I think they must allow EU customers (and remember that are many European countries that are not EU) to access to the UK Steam store and use their EU credit cards there. Not allowing that would be against the "one market" European laws. Only if those product were against the local laws (which may happen in Germany since they have a lot of censorship in games) Valve could ague something against this.

"One market" is not to force every store to have the same prices. But to allow customer to use whatever store they want inside the market. And this is where I think Valve is violating EU laws.

No matter what publisher wanted. Publisher may have different prices in retail stores in different countries, sure. But they cannot forbid a customer from A to buy in the store of country B.

Once publisher have agreed to go online stores, well, they cannot forbid me to go and shop in any store in any other EU country.

they can set different prices in Norway (and they should, without VAT), they can even forbid me to buy there, since I'm not Norwegian and Norway is not in the EU. But they must allow me to buy in the UK store if I want to.

What they can do is force me to the same product. I mean: only in english, for instance, if in the UK thats the version they are selling, that would be legal. But not allow me (as an EU customer) to buy there is not.

I cannot ask legally for a good euro-dollar conversion (I can whine, rant and refuse to buy, but nothing more).

But I can ask for my right to have access to the UK store since they cannot discriminate me just for living in other country (but inside EU). That would be against EU laws.

Finally someone with real sense, This is what I and some/many others have tried to explain.

To Lance_lake:
What you are saying is obviously not applied to VALVe. TPB is offering illegal stuff(well actually, as they say: they only link to it) and of course you don't pay for it. VALVe is exactly the opposite of that so it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

So, I'm still waiting to use the UK store.. It would really show the intentions of VALVe if we did finally get acces to it and they increased the prices of it. But I highly doubt they'd do that.

[strandedPL]

Lance_Lake

Valve is breaking one law in European Union, they sell games cheaper in UK which is a part of European Union and they sell games for 40% more in the rest of European Union countries which is illegal by the EU's law, all countries must have the same prices and if one country has lower prices on downloadable content the rest of the countries that are in European Union should have an ability to purchase games from the UK store as well.

It's called discrimination, it's just a matter of time for the European Commission to take care of this, they always listen to the EU residents and we have already reported hundreds of sent forms to the commission.

And:
Valve has no offices or servers in those countries (as far as I know). If I am incorrect, please point me to the information as to what they own in the EU. Otherwise, their laws are not applicable.

Wrong there are dozens of VALVe content servers around Europe, two in Poland for example.

http://www.steampowered.com/status/content_servers.html

[Jackalito]

So I guess there's still no official word from Valve :(

[jalf]

Everyone was asking for localised pricing.
Everyone? Exaggerate much?
I did not ask for localized pricing. No one I know did. So it was hardly everyone.

I'd even go so far as to say that the majority of European customers did not particularly want localized pricing. If you have evidence to the contrary, please enlighten me.

But even assuming you're right, and everyone wanted localized pricing, that is still irrelevant, because:

They haven't given us localized pricing. (The euro is not the local currency in most of Europe)
The problem isn't the currency (they could use zimbabwe dollars for all I care. What matters is how much they charge, not what currency they print the prices in)
Their stunt of "including VAT" is nothing short of a scam in countries that don't pay VAT on electronic goods in the first place, but still got the price jump


Localized or non-localized prices is not the issue. It's just the excuse Valve used to make a bunch of other changes. And it is these other changes that we're upset about. What currency they choose to offer is completely beside the point.

I respectfully disagree. If that is so, then any company on the internet needs to follow every law for every country.

I point you to the Pirate Bay. They seem to have it in their heads that they don't need to follow US law as they have no servers in the US. Most legal people agree with them.
You respectfully disagree with the law? It's fairly simple. The Pirate bay is not selling a product or a service. (both because it's free, and because they don't host any files themselves) - But even so, they actually work as an example, because some countries have blocked the site for violating the laws of that country.

Valve is selling a product, TPB isn't. Valve is a company like any other, they pay their taxes and they obey the law. And violating EU law means you can't legally do business in the EU.

However, that may not be relevant. We don't know if Valve is breaking any laws. Apple's pricing turned out to be legal, and since this case is similar, Valve may not be guilty of anything either. Of course, the two cases aren't identical, and it's still possible that one of the differences will make this one stick.
But unless one of you are experts in EU law, I doubt we're going to find out any time soon. But don't say that Valve is (or isn't) breaking the law as if it was a fact. It isn't.

[faugusztin]

Just for info for dear Valve employee(s) responsible for European pricing :

1 EUR = 0.975 GBP
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=EURGBP
http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/index.en.html

Looks like we will see 1 EUR = 1 GBP this year. Rather let's not count how much most europeans pay compared to our UK friends.

[Lance_Lake]

I stand corrected as to what EU law is. My point (which seems to be missed) is that Valve doesn't have to follow EU law anymore then they have to follow Austrailian law or Chinas Law or Brazils law..

Anyway, I'm done watching this thread. It's turned into a rant and apparently, anyone who disagrees is being told not to post in the thread. So I'm done.

[jalf]

My point (which seems to be missed) is that Valve doesn't have to follow EU law anymore then they have to follow Austrailian law or Chinas Law or Brazils law..
You stand corrected there as well. Valve does have to follow European, Australian, Chinese and Brazilian law in order to sell games there.

[MortalC]

I stand corrected as to what EU law is. My point (which seems to be missed) is that Valve doesn't have to follow EU law anymore then they have to follow Austrailian law or Chinas Law or Brazils law..

Anyway, I'm done watching this thread. It's turned into a rant and apparently, anyone who disagrees is being told not to post in the thread. So I'm done.

You don’t get it do you? They have to follow the law all those places as well… And just because you were proven wrong doesn’t mean that it is ranting.

[Smurfy12]

Everyone? Exaggerate much?
I did not ask for localized pricing. No one I know did. So it was hardly everyone.

I'd even go so far as to say that the majority of European customers did not particularly want localized pricing. If you have evidence to the contrary, please enlighten me.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724771
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601112
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724771

I can find more if you want.

But even assuming you're right, and everyone wanted localized pricing, that is still irrelevant, because:

They haven't given us localized pricing. (The euro is not the local currency in most of Europe)
The problem isn't the currency (they could use zimbabwe dollars for all I care. What matters is how much they charge, not what currency they print the prices in)
Their stunt of "including VAT" is nothing short of a scam in countries that don't pay VAT on electronic goods in the first place, but still got the price jump


Localized or non-localized prices is not the issue. It's just the excuse Valve used to make a bunch of other changes. And it is these other changes that we're upset about. What currency they choose to offer is completely beside the point

I'm not sure what happened here. You took one sentence and wrote four paragraphs debunking claims that I never made.

[zoltar777]

price hike solely because of your "location" on the internet

Good point - let me cite Doug Lombardi a VP of Marketing for Valve:

Interview founded here (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/the-last-of-the-independents-)

I think that's what gets in the way of [retail publishing], and with Steam there's no disc to burn, so you save that money. There's no box to make, so you save that money, and your shipping is done over the wire which is a lot cheaper than putting stuff on trucks.

You can e-mail mr Lombardi at lombardi@valvesoftware.com


How DOWNLOAD service can be more expensive for continental Europe ? Why Valve takes effort to collect all these Euros which then have to be exchanged later to dollars anyway ?

I supose it's all for our convenience :D

[N1trone]

I don't get some people actually seem to be defending valve in this situation. Do you find it normal that we sometimes pay about twenty to thirty dollars more for a game? What is valve actually saying about this themselves.

[redavatar]

Good point - let me cite Doug Lombardi a VP of Marketing for Valve:

Interview founded here (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/the-last-of-the-independents-)

I think that's what gets in the way of [retail publishing], and with Steam there's no disc to burn, so you save that money. There's no box to make, so you save that money, and your shipping is done over the wire which is a lot cheaper than putting stuff on trucks.

You can e-mail mr Lombardi at lombardi@valvesoftware.com


How DOWNLOAD service can be more expensive for continental Europe ? Why Valve takes effort to collect all these Euros which then have to be exchanged later to dollars anyway ?

I supose it's all for our convenience :D

Come on, Valve have always been talking ♥♥♥♥. Before you could actually buy games on Steam, they were already saying how much cheaper it would be to get people interested and then they slammed us with prices higher than boxed versions. Yes, they're right: it SHOULD be cheaper but it isn't by a long shot.

[Simplex]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724771
Good thing you posted that link, this is a great example, as in the first post I read:

I understand that the exchange rates would need to be kept current if there is a conversion involved from the USD and this could be where it gets tricky for Valve to keep things up to date.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601112

Another good example! A quote from this thread:
i dont mean for them to change the prices, just to show their equivalent values in other currencies.

So, from these quotes everyone can clearly see that those who asked for "localized pricing" did not in fact mean "please, increase prices of all games by 40% by using crazy 1$=1€ conversion rate"- instead, they meant "it would be nice if steam had prices in local currencies equivalent to the prices in dollar".

So, it is obvious that Valve did not do what the users were asking for.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724771
This is the same link as the first one, I hope you did not post it twice just to make it seem that there are more posts asking for localized currencies than there really are ;)

I can find more if you want.
Those two examples you provided are enough - you have clearly and beyond a shadow of a doubt proven that the people who asked for "localised pricing" meant prices in local currencies being equivalent to prices in dollars, just converted at a current echange rate, and they have not meant 40% price hike conveniently hidden behing a currency localisation.
And for proving this I hereby thank you kindly.

I'm not sure what happened here. You took one sentence and wrote four paragraphs debunking claims that I never made.

You claimed that "everyone wanted localized prices" - with the implicit assumption that Valve just did what "everyone" wanted. He responded by proving how valve in fact did not do what the users were asking for - i.e. did not localise currency, but instead increased prices by 40%. So he in fact debunked what you said.

Not to mention that by writing "everyone asked for localized prices" you automatically lose the argument as long as there is even one person that did not. If you want your arguments to be actually worth anything, do not use words like "all", "everyone", "always', "never" when it is clearly obvious that something is not always the case.
If I wrote "all games on steam in Euro are more expensive than in US" that would be bull, because there is a couple of games that are cheaper in Euros (and I bought them, btw).

Perhaps its best if I once again recapitulate what I (and probably most users here) understand by "localised prices" - I mean prices that are equivalent to prices in the original currency (plus any applicable local taxes). And also, prices in local currency that is an official currency of the country in which the buyer resides.
And this is not what Steam introduced. Apart from the fact that the conversion rate is insane (40% too high), dozens of European countries (Norway, Switzerland, Poland, Hungary, to name just a few) do not have euro as official currency and have different VAT rates, and yet valve forces them to pay same price in Euro disregarding their local currencies and local VAT rates - you call that "localized pricing"? Shurely shome mishtake.

I hope you can finally see what an epic fiasco this whole "pricing localisation" actually is for everyone in Europe except UK residents - which in itself is especially funny since for the first time in history the exchange rate between Pound Sterling and Euro is almost 1:1 - to the prices in Pounds and Euros should be almost identical.

[phatsam]

This is unacceptable, Valve. You will receive no money from me until you change tings back.

Yours truly, a concerned citizen.

[Wegwerfaccount]

Only if those product were against the local laws (which may happen in Germany since they have a lot of censorship in games) Valve could ague something against this.

You know, that point gets really complicated when you add imports to the mix... I expect that it'll take a court case to sort out all of the details if EU customers get to choose which of the EU Steam Stores they buy from.

[abrasion]

Foreigner tax? We don't pay GST (Goods and Services Tax for those outside Australia) on imported goods (at least digitally distributed goods) as far as I know. I pay what ever the store front says in USD.

It's my own personal slang term for 'they are foreigners who gives a ♥♥♥♥ about pricing fairly for them' tax.
I've also been known to call it '♥♥♥♥ tax' - all foreigners put up with this ♥♥♥♥ when it comes to consoles, software etc.

[FidelCastrol]

What's worrying is that this thread is slowly dying...that the group reached 10k+ members...and that we haven't had any official answer here beside "it will be fixed".

Are EA games coming to Steam more important than this ? Seems so.

[Stilgar]

This thread (dying or not) is not important to Valve. What is important is if and how you give them your money. Don't buy their games or even buy retail (they get less money that way) and they will inevitably notice and do something.

[Yammo]

Has there been an official response from Valve to this situation yet?


Not that I know of.
And no real differance can be seen in the stores, except some odd xmas-specials. Thus I purchased the games I wanted elsewhere and saved about 50€ I also got all the product keys for those games which means STEAM has frack all to say about when-where-or how I should be playing them.

Feels good...
Thank you steam for kick-staring my sleeping braincell.

I don't know if you guys know, but this thread makes you all look like a bunch of whiny ♥♥♥♥♥es.


And that comment made you look soo mature...
School book example of flame-baiting much?

Is it just me...

*Tin-foil hat on*

...or has the "adress-bar" disappeared from the Steam-browser? Is this another step in Steam's solution?
- Obfuscate the truth and people will forget?


Anyhow, someone "should" set up a page with general price-comparisons for US/UK/EU vs Price-runner.

(...albeit it'd have to be someone with too much time on their hands.... like a french man, or a politician.)



(EDIT*)
NB: Moderator, yes I know it's a multiple post... but since the last post was a "reply" I figured it should stay on its own...

[Malteserr]

This is unacceptable, Valve. You will receive no money from me until you change tings back.

Yours truly, a concerned citizen.

Quoted for truth

[DoReMi]

lol the xmas holiday came just in time to shut most complainers up it would seem.

[impar]

Greetings!

More than 250.000 thread views and still no apologies or explanations from Valve...

[Simplex]

lol the xmas holiday came just in time to shut most complainers up it would seem.
But Xmas will soon be gone, and Xmas steam sale with it - prices will be back to "normal" (read: insanely expensive) and then people will be angry again.

[chokke]

This thread (dying or not) is not important to Valve. What is important is if and how you give them your money. Don't buy their games or even buy retail (they get less money that way) and they will inevitably notice and do something.

Or quit using Steam at all for a period of time.
This bothers me, it's like those people who are against (whatever) but just sits home to whine on a forum with other whiners (hope you take the point and not stop on the fact I used the word whine) and blaming everyone but themself, but when it all comes to all you are not doing anything good for anyone. "We want lower gas-prices, but I will drive short trips around things that benefits ME, rest of you drivers sucks."
I've seen people who ain't going to buy Bioshock or Portal for 5 euros because of theyr "principle", but they are goign to continue using Steam to play games they already own (driving because I want to, right?).

Since this is the Steam-forum, I excpect at least three (if not even much more) people to say "lolol u r teh whinnar lol /facepalm.jpg", but at least my message goes through to some.

And yes, I am using Steam, and yes, I am paying for the prices I find fair for a game I want to buy. No, I am not going after any principal to "show Valve my opinion to how they suck". I respect the fact they switched to Euro, and I belive they have done a (huge) mistake, but as fair as Valve is I belive they will fix it, allthough, still waiting for an official response to why, or how they will make up for the loss of customers.

[Faur]

lol the xmas holiday came just in time to shut most complainers up it would seem.

It's more irritating that this sale should happen during this debacle, since there's a lot of potentially good deals there which are cancelled out by the euro issue.

I haven't bought anything during this sale.

[Kaiser Soze]

IMNAL, but I do not believe an American company with no offices in the EU is held accountable for EU laws. I also don't believe Valve is breaking any international laws..

So why bring up laws that don't apply?

They DO apply as long as Valve sells in europe and pay taxes in europe (VAT)

[snaileri]

It's more irritating that this sale should happen during this debacle, since there's a lot of potentially good deals there which are cancelled out by the euro issue.

I haven't bought anything during this sale.

Me neither. I won't buy anything unless this issue is fixed.

[faugusztin]

IMNAL, but I do not believe an American company with no offices in the EU is held accountable for EU laws. I also don't believe Valve is breaking any international laws..

So why bring up laws that don't apply?

Just quote from another post - place of transaction :
STEAMGAMES.COM
LONDON, GB

Valve is not only american company anymore, i guess this is our STEAMGAMES.COM company in LONDON :
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/9ac08a88e9fd8af5c229233e49614f07/compdetails

So, once they have a subsidiary in UK, they must follow EU laws.

[Roachz]

Or quit using Steam at all for a period of time.
This bothers me, it's like those people who are against (whatever) but just sits home to whine on a forum with other whiners (hope you take the point and not stop on the fact I used the word whine) and blaming everyone but themself, but when it all comes to all you are not doing anything good for anyone. "We want lower gas-prices, but I will drive short trips around things that benefits ME, rest of you drivers sucks."
I've seen people who ain't going to buy Bioshock or Portal for 5 euros because of theyr "principle", but they are goign to continue using Steam to play games they already own (driving because I want to, right?).

Since this is the Steam-forum, I excpect at least three (if not even much more) people to say "lolol u r teh whinnar lol /facepalm.jpg", but at least my message goes through to some.

And yes, I am using Steam, and yes, I am paying for the prices I find fair for a game I want to buy. No, I am not going after any principal to "show Valve my opinion to how they suck". I respect the fact they switched to Euro, and I belive they have done a (huge) mistake, but as fair as Valve is I belive they will fix it, allthough, still waiting for an official response to why, or how they will make up for the loss of customers.

Well the thing is, im 1 of those "whiners" ";)" and well, all i can do is complain on the forum, what can we do more ?? I could go sit infront of Gabe's house allday and protest.... is that what you mean ? should we go to Gabe's house and ruin his sunday ? or what else do you mean ? what can we do more ??

i didnt buy any games that were on sale since the whole dollar -> euro price but yes i will still play the games i already own, why should i stop playing ?? i paid for them when valve was still acting normal and friendly to the customer, so you can partly say i own the game..

And to be honost, i think valve lost its way, its noticable on the forums how "Strict" everything is lately, its beginning to look like EA forums where the moderators are gods and you are just a tiny ant. I also think that valve will NOT fix this else they would have already done it, if i ♥♥♥♥ up anything in my company im expected to fix it in less than 24 hours! Also the silence pretty much sayes it all "we do what we want and you better like it else f*** y**". Dont you think that if a big company like Valve ♥♥♥♥s something up like this (if this is a mistake its a HUGE mistake) they will get it fixed in less than 24 hours ? atleast 2 days.

ive been a great supporter of Steam from the verry start and ill be there at the end of steam but i will never buy a game from steam again if this continues...

[mojoes]

Me neither. I won't buy anything unless this issue is fixed.

Likewise. The holiday sale is passing by, and as it stands, I don't give a ♥♥♥♥

Yay for principles.

[AndY1]

The best thing is to alienate your costumers and Valve, you're doing a good job at it.
I only purchased Bioshock for 5 EUR, because it's really cheap, but Fallout(40.5 EUR) and GTA4(45 EUR)?
I can get new GTA4 for 30 EUR and Fallout for 25 EUR from UK online shops.

Even your own Left 4 Dead is cheaper from UK online shops.

[jalf]

Or quit using Steam at all for a period of time.
This bothers me, it's like those people who are against (whatever) but just sits home to whine on a forum with other whiners (hope you take the point and not stop on the fact I used the word whine) and blaming everyone but themself, but when it all comes to all you are not doing anything good for anyone. "We want lower gas-prices, but I will drive short trips around things that benefits ME, rest of you drivers sucks."
I've seen people who ain't going to buy Bioshock or Portal for 5 euros because of theyr "principle", but they are goign to continue using Steam to play games they already own (driving because I want to, right?).


What does using Steam have to do with anything? Stilgar is right. All that matters is whether or not you buy anything from Steam at these ridiculous prices. If you don't, Valve will notice, and will have to do something. If you do buy from them, you're ok'ing the prices.

Whether or not you use Steam, or their forum, is 120% irrelevant, and your comparison to car owners complaining about gas prices misses the mark by a mile.

No one are "just sitting at home whining, while continuing to use the product". We're whining while spending our money elsewhere. That makes all the difference.

And that also means it doesn't matter whether or not this thread dies. We've got almost 3000 posts here indicating quite clearly *why* we're spending our money elsewhere. That's really the only purpose this thread ever had. It's not to scare Valve (not buying from them is far more likely to achieve that), it's to make sure Valve *understands* the issue, why they just magically lost 90% of their revenue in Europe.

[Karma_Police]

...
I've seen people who ain't going to buy Bioshock or Portal for 5 euros because of theyr "principle", but they are goign to continue using Steam to play games they already own (driving because I want to, right?).
...


I'd say buying new games is "driving because I want to". It's not a perfect analogy because you do not need to buy new games to keep using Steam, while the car needs more gas, unless you want to sit in it all day doing nothing. I like my games. I paid (a fair price) for them. I want to play them. If you paid a fair price for the gas before they increased it, you'd still drive the car, at least until it ran out of gas.


I think there's two ways you can look at it. Either stop buying at all because of the principle, or buy only what you think is fair priced to try to show them we'll still buy if we find it's fair priced. There are only two games that fit that profile, so it's not difficult to choose.

Either way is fine, just don't buy over expensive games. In the old store I would have bought unreal 3 in an heartbeat, but with the new prices I just questioned myself, do I really want this? Apparently no. And it didn't help we have pay more than the rest of the world.

Although, I admit I would probably have bought Bioshock if I didn't have it already.

[Simplex]

Back when we could pay in US Dollars, Valve was adding VAT tax at the end of the purchase, which resulted in complaints.
I have just bought a game from Good Old Games (http://www.gog.com) and not only was I able to pay in dollars, but the VAT tax was already included in the final price! And it was only 15%! Here's proof:

Email from Good Old Games (http://c.wrzuta.pl/wi5/72aef7d800221a31495a247f/img_692727046?type=i&key=8QBfvABemh&ft=f)

If they can do it, why can't Valve?

[azraeel101]

If anyone doesn't know it yet, the UK pound is pretty much equal to the euro. So can anyone explain to me why at this UK store games are 2 or 3 times cheaper than on Steam? http://www.play.com/Games/PC/6-/TopSellers.html
Edit: heh Sacred 2 is 5 time cheaper than on steam.. this is ridiculous.

[Faur]

Edit: heh Sacred 2 is 5 time cheaper than on steam.. this is ridiculous.

Check out their prices for age of conan and call of duty 4.

[Roachz]

Back when we could pay in US Dollars, Valve was adding VAT tax at the end of the purchase, which resulted in complaints.
I have just bought a game from Good Old Games (http://www.gog.com) and not only was I able to pay in dollars, but the VAT tax was already included in the final price! And it was only 15%! Here's proof:

Email from Good Old Games (http://c.wrzuta.pl/wi5/72aef7d800221a31495a247f/img_692727046?type=i&key=8QBfvABemh&ft=f)

If they can do it, why can't Valve?


your Email shows up as a blank page.. somethign went wrong ;)

[Yammo]

I think there's two ways you can look at it. Either stop buying at all because of the principle, or buy only what you think is fair priced to try to show them we'll still buy if we find it's fair priced. There are only two games that fit that profile, so it's not difficult to choose.

Current store prices (converted to dollars using google)
Loc URL Normal Campain
(US) http://store.steampowered.com/app/7670/?cc=us $19.99 $4.99
(GB) http://store.steampowered.com/app/7670/?cc=gb $20.28 $5.06
(EU) http://store.steampowered.com/app/7670/?cc=es $27.07 $7.07

I agree that it seems like a bargain at first glance, the "bargain" is still 41.68% more expensive than in the US store.

However, my main objection is that I am being told which store to use. The very concept of someone telling me where to buy my bread, milk or PC-games, has a name which would probably be be censored, were I to put it in writing.

So, since every dime counts, I use my wallet to show that I do not support the new pricing policy at all.

It's not like Steam is the only store that sells games... It is convenient... that is all... That is the only "Unique Selling Point" Steam has... And I'm not "that" lazy and, I doubt that the rest of europe is either. (Except perhaps the French. ;) )

If anyone doesn't know it yet, the UK pound is pretty much equal to the euro. So can anyone explain to me why at this UK store games are 2 or 3 times cheaper than on Steam? http://www.play.com/Games/PC/6-/TopSellers.html
Edit: heh Sacred 2 is 5 time cheaper than on steam.. this is ridiculous.


Holy crp...
Buying-frenzy ON! :D



*EDIT*
To Moderator:
That rule of having to edit-for-multiple posts is quite clumbersome when there is no way of deleting a post. :( *sigh*

[946021]

THUMBS DOWN Valve

[azraeel101]

Check out their prices for age of conan and call of duty 4.

Yea, saw those.. So basically Steam is the most expensive game store in Europe. GG Valve...

[Simplex]

your Email shows up as a blank page.. somethign went wrong ;)

Did you try refreshing the page? Just in case I uploaded it to imageshack:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9742/img692727046ps0.jpg

Also, I forgot to mention that no additional money for verification was charged without my consent from the credit card - this happens when you buy games using steam: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=774781

[Karma_Police]

Current store prices (converted to dollars using google)
Loc URL Normal Campain
(US) http://store.steampowered.com/app/7670/?cc=us $19.99 $4.99
(GB) http://store.steampowered.com/app/7670/?cc=gb $20.28 $5.06
(EU) http://store.steampowered.com/app/7670/?cc=es $27.07 $7.07

I agree that it seems like a bargain at first glance, the "bargain" is still 41.68% more expensive than in the US store.

However, my main objection is that I am being told which store to use. The very concept of someone telling me where to buy my bread, milk or PC-games, has a name which would probably be be censored, were I to put it in writing.

So, since every dime counts, I use my wallet to show that I do not support the new pricing policy at all.

It's not like Steam is the only store that sells games... It is convenient... that is all... That is the only "Unique Selling Point" Steam has... And I'm not "that" lazy and, I doubt that the rest of europe is either. (Except perhaps the French. ;) )

Yes, it annoys me that we are charged more than the rest of the world for no reason at all. Even with VAT (for those of us that pay it) it's more expensive, but strangely for the UK is less than $4.99 + 15% VAT...

But my two games that are fair priced are Beyond Good and Evil and Cold Fear which are cheaper than US, and same price than UK. Although I only bought Beyond Good and Evil since the other doesn't seem that good.

[hahahafr]

lol the xmas holiday came just in time to shut most complainers up it would seem.

Can't say much more.
But don't desperate, let's see how the customers will react after these irresistible holiday sales.

[lackoo]

these irresistible holiday sales.i'm not buying .

[crazycanuck]

This is P*ss poor business practices on Steams part, and shows little respect for the the customers who they would be nothing without.

In my books Steam should be utterly ashamed of themselves ripping the European players off like this.

[nowisee]

i'm not buying .

I would have bought Left for Dead and Fallout 3 if it hadn't been for the stupid Europe pricing policy. Well, more money for the local store that are selling the games cheaper.

[Pendulum]

well no steam games for me, the main reason to buy games at steam was that it was cheaper. now that the stores are cheaper .. no more steam games for me. only if i'll have to register it.

ron, holland

[Xamataca]

None from Valve replied yet in their official forums, if ever for clarification. Now it's too late for me and I don't care anymore.

Actually Steam has not a single advantage for me. If ever they go back to the correct exchange and price rate, I'll still check somewhere else before.

They will not have my money through Steam.
That's what I'm doing to combat their silence.

[DEADC0DE]

Would be cool if they did this: 1 DKK (Denmark Kroner) = 1 $

(1 DKK = 0.189408 USD)

[Yammo]

Would be cool if they did this: 1 DKK (Denmark Kroner) = 1 $

(1 DKK = 0.189408 USD)

I second that motion :D

[lackoo]

(1 DKK = 0.189408 USD)
1 Hungarian forint = 0.005307 U.S. dollars

[DEADC0DE]

1 Hungarian forint = 0.005307 U.S. dollars

lol. Are they even used anymore?

[lackoo]

lol. Are they even used anymore?unfortunately yes.

[Simplex]

1 Hungarian forint = 0.005307 U.S. dollars

1 Zimbabwe Dollar (ZWD) = 0.00000049 US Dollar (USD) :D Hopefully steam will localize prices in Zimbabwe with this fantastic 1:1 exchange rate :D

[DEADC0DE]

1 Zimbabwe Dollar (ZWD) = 0.00000049 US Dollar (USD) :D Hopefully steam will localize prices in Zimbabwe with this fantastic 1:1 exchange rate :D

It's more worth :/

(1 ZWD = 0.00000108012 USD)


Cheap games if they were using USD=ZWD xD
49.99 ZWD = 0.0000539951 USD

Omg.. Left 4 Dead (Without holiday prices) costs 65,342,610.40 ZWD :S

LOL: "Notice: The Zimbabwe government redenominated the ZWD on August 1, 2008 at a rate of 10,000,000,000 old ZWD to 1 new ZWD. No new currency code has been issued, but the old ZWD currency remains legal tender until December 31, 2008."

[Smurfy12]

Hm 2700 posts.

[Zamav]

Hm 2700 posts.

And quarter million views :)

[chokke]

Hm 2700 posts.

Thank you for pointing that out.

What bothers me is the fact that Valve-employees got time to answer all other topics but this one..

[damaged]

Thank you for pointing that out.

What bothers me is the fact that Valve-employees got time to answer all other topics but this one..

Chances are their legal dept. probably told them not to touch this thread with a 10 foot pole.

[Atnakenek]

Did valve read this thread?

[Khalem]

I for one was planning on purchasing two collection packs on christmas sale, unfortunately due to 1$ = 1€ in valves world, it would end up costing me 40% more in euros than in USD. But i guess i should be happy, i saved valve from earning any money at all and my bank account thanks me.

[KayTwoEx]

with the "discounts" the most of the games are same as market-price or cheaper so I don't see a problem at current. On 3nd January I will go berserk :p

[Crass Spektakel]

Gee thats bad, I had planed to put around $60 into my christmas cart and now this equals to nearly $80.

Surprisingly I only saw Dollar prices until I actually tried to pay the cart when suddenly (sneaky, sneaky) the dollar sign changed to a euro sign - nearly I missed that one and would have paid much more than anticipated.

I changed my plans and now I will only buy Bioshock which isn't very cheap for $7 but at least in the steam version there is little DRM which safes me one google.

booooooo!!!!

[GrownupLawolf]

Did valve read this thread?

I think they did.

[KayTwoEx]

Let's hope they lower the prices or atleast the european comission get them to lower the prices. Let us more pay than the yankee's seems to be some kind of racist.

[mojoes]

Yep and clicking on the number shows you at a glance who posted and how many times as well. ;)


http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=770231

Whatever, people are clearly passionate about this issue. I for one will take my business elsewhere.

I would like to add that the 1€ ≠ 1$ community have reached 12181 members as of this....

[Adradis]

Let's hope they lower the prices or atleast the european comission get them to lower the prices. Let us more pay than the yankee's seems to be some kind of racist.

I'd like to point out that Europeans have ALWAYS payed more then Americans. Well, almost always (Can't say for 100%). You've proven you'll pay more, so you get charged more over there (Especially in other industries)

[GrownupLawolf]

I'd like to point out that Europeans have ALWAYS payed more then Americans. Well, almost always (Can't say for 100%). You've proven you'll pay more, so you get charged more over there (Especially in other industries)

We may have paid more than americans, but we never paid their dollar prices in euros. Besides, why has Valve adjusted UK's prices and left all the other EU-Prices as expensive as they are? This is a plain rip-off.

[Yammo]

Did valve read this thread?


I find it rather difficult to imagine that they "missed" a thread with 250k views. They are probably told "not to touch it even with a 10 foot pole". :(



Surprisingly I only saw Dollar prices until I actually tried to pay the cart when suddenly (sneaky, sneaky) the dollar sign changed to a euro sign - nearly I missed that one and would have paid much more than anticipated.


Many of my Steam-friends didn't see it at all and ended up getting suckered. They half past blew up in my face when I told them.(and no, I wasn't taunting them...)

I _really_ doubt this would stand up in _any_ court, be it under European or US rule, if a class-action was to be brought up towards Steam-Shop. (Any lawyers out there looking to make an easy buck? hint hint)

[Adradis]

We may have paid more than americans, but we never paid their dollar prices in euros. Besides, why has Valve adjusted UK's prices and left all the other EU-Prices as expensive as they are? This is a plain rip-off.

That, I'll agree with. Just pointing out that paying more then American's isn't something new, which your post slightly implied to me.

[KayTwoEx]

I'd like to point out that Europeans have ALWAYS payed more then Americans. Well, almost always (Can't say for 100%). You've proven you'll pay more, so you get charged more over there (Especially in other industries)

Damn capitalism. Let them pay as much as they're willing to pay to get maximum profit. I hate those who do that, not fair. At least only those rich people get the money and they get richer and richer while everyone els get poorer and poorer because the rich's don't want to give his employees more money/want to have everything alone and don't want to let the other get rich. :o :o :o :o

[GrownupLawolf]

-absolutely signed.

[zoltar777]

So continental Europeans will pay about 40% more for the games...

will we get better service for that ? NO
will we get better games with better content for that ? NO
better game support ? NO
faster downloads ? NO

NO service included but 40% price hike,based only on your location on the internet (LMAO) which is ridiculous.With retail you can at least claim higher shipping but with DOWNLOAD service ?

No logical explanation other than abuse of exchange rate and abuse of VAT rate.Ignorance of non-euro countries.
Slap in the face of their customers, it's like charging people more because of race or religion !

Unfair,unjust discrimination.But something makes them thinking they can do that ... Maybe they grew too confident thinking people will support and love them anyway, they are soooo coooool...

I've filled my EU commission form and I suggest you do same - write about euro-us exchange rate,write about forcing euro to non-euro contries,about adding VAT where sometimes there should be no VAT.

Tell about this everyone one - spread the message.

[nowisee]

When they reply to this "incident" it had better be some sort of awesome "Half price on everything for the rest of 2009 for everyone paying in Euros, after we change the prices to match those in the US. And we are sorry we messed up with the prices.. let us give you Half-Life 3 for free because we are so sorry and we really care about our customers"..

And if they don't give that kind of reply or no reply at all, then i think they can wave goodbye to 80-90% of their customers in the Euro zone.

This is pretty simple really. Computer gamers are not dumb, and we are going to check prices on other online stores. That is the beauty of the Internet. And when i can buy games 40% cheaper WITH free shipping then there is no point in having Steam anymore. And I think that a majority of the gamers out there will do the same. Sure there are some filthy rich people that don't care, or some fanboys that will stick with steam even with the hilarious prices. But you can be damn sure that most people won't. So if anyone at Valve reads this then you had better do something awesome FAST or you are not going to sell too many games the next years in the Euro zone..

[AA_d00d]

So continental Europeans will pay about 40% more for the games...


I'm living in Croatia - a country that doesn't have € as currency and neither is a part of EU. I'd also like to point out that we don't pay VAT on digital distribution so WE ARE LITERALLY paying +40% on games that we have purchased via Steam.

I've compared games here on Steam with those in our local stores and i've realized that Valve games are much cheaper in local stores, 3rd party games on the other hand are about the same price as here on Steam so here it is what i have decided:

1) If I would want to buy a Valve game in the near future (if this so-called 'store bug' remains) i'll give my money to a local store. it is cheaper and i'll get a medium, manual and a pretty box (lol)

2) If I would want to buy a 3rd party game in the near future (bla bla bla) i'll give my money to a local store. because it is AGAIN, cheaper, medium included with a manual and pretty box

[nowisee]

I've filled my EU commission form and I suggest you do same - write about euro-us exchange rate,write about forcing euro to non-euro contries,about adding VAT where sometimes there should be no VAT.

Tell them about the £ to € difference.. since they will most likely not care about the $ to € difference..

[zoltar777]

I'm living in Croatia ...WE ARE LITERALLY paying +40% on games that we have purchased via Steam.

1) If I would want to buy a Valve game in the near future (if this so-called 'store bug' remains) i'll give my money to a local store. it is cheaper and i'll get a medium, manual and a pretty box (lol)

2) If I would want to buy a 3rd party game in the near future (bla bla bla) i'll give my money to a local store. because it is AGAIN, cheaper, medium included with a manual and pretty box

And it's good ! When you buy in local store you support your country economy,you support the guys who have this store and their families,you support people who transport these games and their families,you support many local people.
Everyone in Croatia and any other country will benefit that,including you.

Who we support now ?
Some multi-million dollar salary of Valve managers.

Sorry,I prefer to support my local people.They are fair giving me fair price,I will be fair giving them profit.We will all benefit and not a greedy corporation.

[KayTwoEx]

Well, the next thing that will happen is the following:

VALVe have done € = $
Now they figgure out that £ almost = € is
So they will increase £ prices to € price

And very soon it will be $=€, €=£ and $=£.

All that's called:
Learning Math with VALVe.

edit: will i get banned now? :p

[hahahafr]

i'm not buying .

I must admit I couldn't resist the 4.99€ Bioshock price.
Even if I respectively payed 1.03€ & 2.48€ more than the UK and the US customers.
I won't buy on Steam again though.

[FISKER_Q]

When they replay to this "incident" it had better be some sort of awesome "Half price on everything for the rest of 2009 for everyone paying in Euros, after we change the prices to match those in the US. And we are sorry we messed up with the prices.. let us give you Half-Life 3 for free because we are so sorry and we really care about our customers"..

And if they don't give that kind of replay or no replay at all, then i think they can wave goodbye to 80-90% of their customers in the Euro zone.

This is pretty simple really. Computer gamers are not dumb, and we are going to check prices on other online stores. That is the beauty of the Internet. And when i can buy games 40% cheaper WITH free shipping then there is no point in having Steam anymore. And I think that a majority of the gamers out there will do the same. Sure there are some filthy rich people that don't care, or some fanboys that will stick with steam even with the hilarious prices. But you can be damn sure that most people won't. So if anyone at Valve reads this then you had better do something awesome FAST or you are not going to sell too many games the next years in the Euro zone..

Why should they do that?

If anyone paid for the games, then they did so of their own free will.

[AA_d00d]

Learning Math with VALVe.

"Math for dummies", publisher: Valve

[Hrusky]

it sucks, i wanted to buy counter strike source from steam, but now i buy it from some e-shop. it will be cheaper and i will received box with cd that i can touch it:p

[KayTwoEx]

"Math for dummies", publisher: Valve

Works like this:

Imagine you got two currencys. Call it like € or $. Now imagine you get 1,4$ for 1€ or 0,6€ for 1$. Now imagine you want to buy something and pay with €. This thing costs 40$.

....

That got to cost 24€!

....

Program says: WRONG. You got to pay 40€.
__________

/set_brain=off

[nowisee]

Why should they do that?

If anyone paid for the games, then they did so of their own free will.

Valve should do that if they care about their European customers.. They should do that because we feel cheated. They should do that because the customer is always right!

But this isn't just about the price anymore.. after this I will buy the game from a local store even if the price is the same on Steam.. Mostly because they screwed me over since i live in Europe, and i don't like it when they screw me over because of where i live.

I don't even live in a EU country, and we don't use Euros here. So this is just ridicules.. why should i pay in Euros when i use Euros just as much as i use US Dollars? And why the hell should i pay VAT when the rules in Norway clearly states that there should be NO import tax on digital import? Did Valve even bother to look on the map when they decided to give Europe one price? Well, valve.. Europe is a continent, not a country. This continent has somewhere around 50 country's all with their individual VAT rules and regulations. Most of them also have their own local currency and don't want to pay in Euros because the US Dollar is weaker.

So dear Valve.. Learn math and get a map!

[nowisee]

Exactly.
The EU customers cannot buy at the Steam UK store inside the European Community, which is against the European Trade Laws. We certainly not are lawyers, but it doesn't mean we can't read some laws and Apple already got corrected on this. You will find the BBC link with the full story on the previous pages.

If enough people write letters and complain they have to do something about it.. Read the first post in this thread on how to write a complaint. make sure to complain about the difference between £ and € and not $ and €..

[KayTwoEx]

Lol, you know what they will do? They will say: "Ok, they got to pay in € too now." So even our british friends gotta pay MUCH more than retailer price. VALVe hates us europeans :-(

[nowisee]

Lol, you know what they will do? They will say: "Ok, they got to pay in € too now." So even our british friends gotta pay MUCH more than retailer price. VALVe hates us europeans :-(

Yea. let them do that. See how long till they drop the prices. We don't need steam if the price is 40% higher then retail. Don't buy anything on steam till this whole mess is sorted out and we get the apology we deserve!

[snaileri]

It's funny that Valve still has not commented about the issue.
I mean, what are they thinking? We are not going to forget this and start buying stuff from Steam after a little while, unless this is fixed.

[Marcelloz]

I use steam to support the DEVELOPERS not VALVE !

Bah! I use Steam from when Half-life2 came out and bought a lot of stuff there. Even is the price on steam was exactly the same as the retail price. But now with these prices it's just stupid. Especially when viewing the Mass Effect price difference between the USA and Europe. I feel like a milking cow. I will not buy anything from them only if the price is really, really low.

[goc]

If enough people write letters and complain they have to do something about it.. Read the first post in this thread on how to write a complaint. make sure to complain about the difference between £ and € and not $ and €..

is it really necessary to write "official" complaints ? i mean if they don't get the picture from holiday sales figures their are really <enter some ming boggling random insult here>

i really don't think the massive sale will help them. i'm really curious about these numbers regarding euro boycott.

anyways. i'm not buying anymore from steam. my list will stay intact.

[lackoo]

Yep and clicking on the number shows you at a glance who posted and how many times as well. ;)


http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=770231
Interesting.

[nowisee]

is it really necessary to write "official" complaints ? i mean if they don't get the picture from holiday sales figures their are really <enter some ming boggling random insult here>

i really don't think the massive sale will help them. i'm really curious about these numbers regarding euro boycott.

anyways. i'm not buying anymore from steam. my list will stay intact.
What I was talking about was writing a formal letter of complaint to the European Commission. If you want info on how to do that read the first post in this thread. I recommend everyone that are residents of a EU country do that.

It is far more likely that Valve will take a complaint from the European Commission more serious then a couple of thousand angry customers.

And should Valve be so daft that they change the prices so that the UK prices goes up, then they will not have any customers left in this part of the world.

[jalf]

Why should they do that?

If anyone paid for the games, then they did so of their own free will.

Perhaps to regain some measure of trust from the over 10,000 europeans who are pissed off about this?

They could lose a lot of money in the long run if this fiasco has pushed people over from "If the price is about the same I buy from Steam" to retail. I know a lot of people who until now have preferred buying from Steam as long as there were no big differences in the price compared to retail. I also think most of them is going to prefer retail from now on.

So it may actually be a good business decision. Whether it's what nowisee suggested or some other way to make it up to their European users.

[nowisee]

This is just one of many screw ups the last couple of months. First a couple of incidents where they pre sold games without telling the customer that the games comes bundled with malware(rootkit aka Securom). This made me a bit annoyed and i was kind of shocked that they could make such a bad business decision. Why would they need securom on a game that i have bought on Steam. The whole point of having Steam is to have a download service and copy protection out of the box.. no need for 3'rd party rootkits. Yea yea, i know it probably was the publisher or the developer that included it in the retail version, but valve could have said.. Sorry, we already have our own copy protection no need for rootkits here. But they didn't. That incident lost them a LOT of goodwill and some customers.. (Yes i was planing on buying Crysis: Warhead but i rather get it somewhere else now).. So lost sale due to a bad business decision.

And now this.. How much goodwill do you thing you have left now Valve? Do you think we are likely to buy games from Steam now? Or do you think we are going to prefer buying them cheaper at some local store?

After this you can bet i will buy my games at a local store even if it is €5 more expensive.. and you know why.. Because you first screw us over, then don't reply to it at all. And i bet you a million dollar that when you reply you are going to be.. "It was the publishers and the developers decision and we don't care about you.. so ♥♥♥♥ off."

Happy New Year Valve!

[Ominus101]

THANK YOU VALVE for convincing me to never buy games through steam until you either go back to normal or set proper prices, right now its cheaper to buy a game in store than through steam AND YOU GET A FANCY BOX WITH IT!!!! :mad:

[Krid]

Don't buy anything on steam till this whole mess is sorted out and we get the apology we deserve!

You're welcome to boycott Steam and I wish you the best for your quest to get the cost parity you deserve, but please don't go around demanding apologies as it's just needless hostility.
Be polite, be professional, and only ask for what you really want - fair treatment.

[tvangstr0ye]

Have anyone made a "I will not buy from Steam until prices are fixed" online petition yet? Facebook group?

[strandedPL]

Have anyone made a "I will not buy from Steam until prices are fixed" online petition yet? Facebook group?

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/1euro1us

[tvangstr0ye]

but please don't go around demanding apologies as it's just needless hostility.
Be polite, be professional, and only ask for what you really want - fair treatment.

When you cause grief to others unintentionally, you apologize.

When you cause grief to others intentionally, you shut the hell up and wait for the sales numbers and dont do ♥♥♥♥ until hundreds of private individuals make official complaints.

Common decency is overrated.

[Maledictus010]

Looks like this has run it's course. I don't believe anything will change. Think about this: all people that buy stuff now because of the holiday sale and pay in euros, what is supposed to happen when the prices are "switched back"? Pay the people the difference back? No, this is here to stay and i for one am simply accepting this as a fact. I will ALWAYS have the choice where i buy my stuff, be it in shops, through the 'net, or through Steam. The price will simply, as always, be the criterium. If that causes loss of sales for Valve, what do i care? Make no mistake, i'm pissed as hell about all this and it isn't fair and all that, but we simply exist to line their pockets (serves us right for buying everything that has The Sims written on it). My only defence is WHERE i will spend my money, and that defence will be employed more than before.

And now, i'm off to buy my holiday sale stuff on Steam, stuff i can't buy in the local stores anymore because all you can buy here (in NL) is everything from The Sims and some EA sports stuff.

Happy holidays to all of you, game on.

[marekfreak]

When you cause grief to others unintentionally, you apologize.

When you cause grief to others intentionally, you shut the hell up and wait for the sales numbers and dont do ♥♥♥♥ until hundreds of private individuals make official complaints.

Common decency is overrated.

Tue, true. I just had to LOL

Anyway, I cannot believe Valve has let this whole debacle trickle through into the New Year. Couple that with the problems people are having using their credit cards...its a real shame.

All those sales lost in the EU in favor of North American customers, with the USD where it is at the moment.

Valve must be really proud of themselves at the moment.

Judging from the fact that they have done f-all to resolve or clarify this matter during the critical X-mas season/holidays, it is more than obvious that Valve intend to do absolutely nothing about it. Especially with the uproar it has caused, hence, this thread.

Kudos to Valve for Alienating your entire EU market and driving all your business to play.com and retail (and who knows if that was really the intention). Congrats.

...oh and the best of luck in winning our trust back. You are gonna need it.

[Artheval_Pe]

ooks like this has run it's course. I don't believe anything will change.

It may take several years, but things WILL change. Different prices in different countries that are part of European Union is against the law. So either they are going to set things right and UK consummers and other EU consummers are going to pay the same price (higher or lower than before, I don't know), either there's going to be a trial, and if things don't change, Valve is going to have to pay a huge amount of money, in several years (because those kind of trials take a while).

As for 1€=1$, if it stays that way even with their games, their sales are going to get lower.

If even the editors supporting PC Gaming start to go wild in their policies, I wonder what's going to happen to PC Gaming in the decades to come...

[tvangstr0ye]

The power you wield lies in the choice to spend or save your money. In this case, having to detox on The Sims for a few months to prove a valid consumer point, is a small sacrifice.
If your not willing to not spend your money then your nothing but a fish following the ST(R)EAM carelessly.

I think we need the Obama spirit here, YES WE CAN!

[Maledictus010]

If your not willing to not spend your money then your nothing but a fish following the ST(R)EAM carelessly

Most certainly not carelessly. The stuff i will buy is not for sale in local shops or even internet shops. Steam's the only alternative. That coupled with the fact that the few copies i did manage to track down were second hand AND more expensive, i think i've done my research. In these few cases Steam's both the best and the only way to go and i'd be a fool not to take advantage of the holiday discount now. You'd do best not to judge so easily, my young friend. Besides, it's my money to spend. And like i said, i feel betrayed too, but after a few days cooling off it's back to reality and i want to play these games, period.

[ultio]

This is getting more unfair for every Euro customer. First the british pounds were quite a lot more worth than the Euro, but the pounds just lost so much value in the last months. And now the day came I was waiting for: It's almost equal to the Euro.

Yahoo Finance (http://de.finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=GBP&to=EUR&amt=1&t=1y)

The german Yahoo page got this nice chart which shows the developing of the pounds value. As you can see, it's at the moment worth 1,04€, this is almost equal. In October it was worth ~1,35€.

[kfccaleb]

And the Pound will go down. A lot of people go to London to do some shopping, because of low value of the Pound.

[zeke90]

Has there been any official statements from Valve?

Seems like they just want to make the most money possible in the holiday season (when they sell really good), and then, MAYBE do something about it, after they have squeezed as much money as possible from it.

[ultio]

Yeah, I've saw that in the news, we even ordered a credit card because of all the good prices on amazon.co.uk. Valve should change the prices, really. I mean, they make more money with every game because of the missing costs of a retail version, but still they want to have the prices that high.

[Yammo]

If even the editors supporting PC Gaming start to go wild in their policies, I wonder what's going to happen to PC Gaming in the decades to come...


The sad thing is...
I think Steam had the potential to limit Piracy and deal deadly blows to crap like DRM and Starforce... Digital distribution IS the way to go, but Steam has lost it's confidence with a continent of gamers. (Some of whom are/will become developers)

Hopefully a new actor will spring up and offer something decent in the place of Steam.

[morten8035]

It is a way for me to buy in dollars? It's 30-40% more expensive.
Because we live in an another country we must pay more? I'm not gonna purchase more games before they fix this 1$=1€ thing.

[benwaller1]

Rubbish. The picture of the Queen alone is worth at least one Euro. Then you have all the metal.