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Zhou Yu
02-23-2009, 05:40 AM
Wow, so I've been interested in Empire: Total War for a while and I started to shop around for the pre-order.

Game.co.uk (http://www.game.co.uk/PC/Strategy/RealTime/~r333586/Empire-Total-War-with-GAME-Exclusive-Deaths-Head-Hussars-InGame-Unit/?s=empire%20total%20war) - Empire Total War standard edition - £29.99 (free delivery for the morning of release, or usually the day before)

Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/10500/) - Empire Total War standard edition - £39.99

Thats just mad. So the boxed edition of a game from a retail store costs £10 less than the digital download edition? Hell, with Steam's record with European release dates the game will probably even be delivered faster from game. In the post. For free.



Bottom line: If Valve isn't even close to competing in the European market, don't buy from them. I know I won't.

dkd00d
02-23-2009, 08:25 AM
must be great to have a company that can afford to alienate its customers, instead of getting them to buy your stuff. gj valve, mission accomplished.

Sivlon
02-23-2009, 08:28 AM
http://bayimg.com/image/mankmaabl.jpg

European Commision is handling my complaint

nice! great job man!

deelay1
02-23-2009, 09:34 AM
http://bayimg.com/image/mankmaabl.jpg

European Commision is handling my complaint
By the gods, you have it on paper while most of us just got emails from them. This will really get things rolling IMHO...

Abedeus
02-23-2009, 01:53 PM
Wow, so I've been interested in Empire: Total War for a while and I started to shop around for the pre-order.

Game.co.uk (http://www.game.co.uk/PC/Strategy/RealTime/~r333586/Empire-Total-War-with-GAME-Exclusive-Deaths-Head-Hussars-InGame-Unit/?s=empire%20total%20war) - Empire Total War standard edition - £29.99 (free delivery for the morning of release, or usually the day before)

Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/10500/) - Empire Total War standard edition - £39.99

Thats just mad. So the boxed edition of a game from a retail store costs £10 less than the digital download edition? Hell, with Steam's record with European release dates the game will probably even be delivered faster from game. In the post. For free.



Bottom line: If Valve isn't even close to competing in the European market, don't buy from them. I know I won't.

You guys from UK should be the ones NOT complaining. At least you pay as much as people in the USA when there are weekend deals and so on.

We still pay more than retail versions.

Ooookay, now this is pathetic.

Far Cry 2 - 50 euro. That's almost 235 PLN.

Yet as you can see here:

http://www.empik.com/far-cry-2-pc-multimedia,prod4620126,p?slotName=BoxSale

I can get the same game for less than 1/3 of it's price on Steam.

That.
Is.
Pathetic.

Vir
02-23-2009, 02:50 PM
Yet no official response form Valve..

jethro_tj
02-23-2009, 04:42 PM
I hope they get a Microsoft-sized fine (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/27/technology/msft.php) by the EU trade commission. :D

Nice read, let's just hope Valve's fine isn't that high... do want to continue playing the games I bought up till now^^

Abedeus
02-24-2009, 01:01 AM
Okay, I know I'm boring, but...

World of Goo 20 euro.

In Poland, World of Goo - 20 PLN. Game is 4.6 times more expensive at Steam than the retail version.

Alienchild
02-24-2009, 02:44 AM
I've stopped buying games on Steam because of this, pure and simple. Was originally only going to buy cheap games, but I'm too p*ssed right now even though there are many cheap games I want.

Don't like the prices, spend your money somewhere else. Hopefully the publishers will pick up on this and correct their prices.

Near Elite
02-24-2009, 03:49 AM
Games I haven't purchased yet because of the unfair pricing:

Dawn of War 2
Mass Effect
Spore
Red Alert 3
Mirror's Edge

Zhou Yu
02-24-2009, 04:11 AM
You guys from UK should be the ones NOT complaining. At least you pay as much as people in the USA when there are weekend deals and so on.


I still have the right to complain about stupid prices, even if they aren't quite as biblically stupid as EU prices.

Kaiser Soze
02-24-2009, 07:06 AM
Ok regarding buying from somewhere else. That what I'm doing. I did buy Empire Total War, but before this started (so in dollars and with even better $/€ rate than now).

but I did buy DoW2 somewhere else (directly from Thq), it was cheaper, it has extras AND now the game is in steam (so I could change voiced to english instead of spanish, I prefer original voices, and in order to do so I had to download part of the game from steam).

My point is: talk here, but buy somewhere else, and spread where you found it cheaper. Sooner or later valve guys will realize that if other stores using DD and steam can sell us at cheaper prices, then they have a problem.

Regarding VAT there is other thing. I did buy a few games at steam in Xmas. Vat is still displayed BUT only in the mail you get after you have purchased the game. That would mean that the price of the game is recalculated in each country in order to make price+VAT= constant all over Europe (except UK).

This means they are no charging VAT in countries where there is no VAT. No against the law.

this also means they are deliberately hiding real price of games and not showing the real price of the game until after you have purchased the game. And if you want to know how much does a game cost you have to do the math yourself, since the actual price is: "price shown-local VAT".

Definitively not illegal, but for sure not very user friendly. Doesn't seem very wise to screw your customers.

I'm still waiting for the official EU answer regarding not allowing EU customer to buy in UK store, which is against EU laws as far as I know.

In conclusion:
- Price differentiation between EU & USA : Fully legal. But they are screwing customers and for sure many will buy elsewhere. We should keep this thread alive to make everyone aware of this.

- VAT charging. Fully legal, since they do charge the real VAT (at the cost of charging the game price in each country). However they do not show the real price until you have bought it. As I said, legal, but again Valve is crewing its (former) customers.

- Price differentiation between UK and rest of EU: Fully legal. as the other point this is legal, but screws Valve's customers.

- Not allowing EU customers to buy in UK store: NOT LEGAL. There shouldn't be restriction to buy inside EU as we should be allowed to buy wherever we want. They may charge us with extra shipping cost, but there is no such costs here. so this is the only issue here that not only pisses us, but is the only one against the law. This is why I want to see the EU official answer regarding this.

Kaiser Soze

Simplex
02-24-2009, 07:23 AM
Kaiser Soze, that is a very well written post, especially explaining which actions of valve are legal (though morally dubious) and which are outrigh illegal.
Good read :)

Eek!
02-24-2009, 07:26 AM
It is a good post, and I can understand why people are still talking about this (indeed better to if possible), but there's not really been anything new discussed for about 50+ pages.

kfccaleb
02-24-2009, 08:21 AM
Because nothing changed after 50+ of users' discontentment...

And I'm still not sure about VAT. I's never showed which VAT you are you paying. It could be 0%, it could be 25% - you never know because this important information is compensated with nothing saying sentence "All prices include VAT where applicable".

Kaiser Soze
02-24-2009, 08:30 AM
kfccaleb, trust me. Vat is showed in the mail you receive after you have bougth a game. 100% sure, since I did buy a few games in xmas (it was the only time since the change that steam was valid for me after this 1$=1€).

So, since the VAT is calculated in the bill I assume there is not legal problem. After all in many retail stores you only see the VAT amount in the bill and you only get the bill after you have purchased something it doesn't seem different.

We may be pissed because they hide the amount of VAT until you get the bill, unlike the old times in which you had it before buying, but I guess it fully legal.

Heinold
02-24-2009, 09:23 AM
this also means they are deliberately hiding real price of games and not showing the real price of the game until after you have purchased the game. And if you want to know how much does a game cost you have to do the math yourself, since the actual price is: "price shown-local VAT".



This quote made me laugh.
The regional pricing was introduced to make it easier for me to see the real price of my purchase. Now, It's the same as before, with the difference, that the prices are up to 50% higher now.

Wulfklaue
02-24-2009, 12:28 PM
kfccaleb, trust me. Vat is showed in the mail you receive after you have bougth a game. 100% sure, since I did buy a few games in xmas (it was the only time since the change that steam was valid for me after this 1$=1€).

So, since the VAT is calculated in the bill I assume there is not legal problem. After all in many retail stores you only see the VAT amount in the bill and you only get the bill after you have purchased something it doesn't seem different.

We may be pissed because they hide the amount of VAT until you get the bill, unlike the old times in which you had it before buying, but I guess it fully legal.

Kaiser Soze:

On what document did you get a sales tax figure? Because the one's after the Dollar - Euro conversion did not show any more sales tax on the Paypal recites.

Old Dollar Paypal Recite ( 12/07/2008 ):

Subject: Receipt for Your Payment to Valve Corp.


Item Price: $14,99 USD
Sales Tax: $3,15 USD
Total: $18,14 USD


New Euro Paypal Recite ( 27/12/2008 ):

Subject: Receipt for Your Payment to Steam Games


Item Price: 20,09 EUR
Total: €20,09 EUR


Clearly no Sales Tax on the form anymore. What is illegal.

It seems they also altered the default subject. All the old one's use "Valve Corp", and from the $-€ conversion, it became "Steam Games".

strandedPL
02-24-2009, 12:48 PM
Anyone got some new e-mails from the European Commission?

Wulfklaue
02-25-2009, 04:06 AM
Anyone got some new e-mails from the European Commission?

It has been more then a month from when the first emails arrived, so, yea, anybody got a ( non standard ) reply?

Kaiser Soze
02-25-2009, 08:43 AM
Well I've checked the mail they sent to me and it was this:
"Game Name" 12,92 EUR
----------------------------

Total 14,99 EUR

It's not easy to see what's there (and certainly they should indicate more precisely) The the difference between 12,92 and 14,99 is the VAT (16% here).
That what makes me think that they not doing anything ilegal since they are saying what is the real game price. I will not defend Valve here, and for sure I think that this is bad.

They should indicate the VAT more clearly (not forcing me to do the math) and they should show me those numbers before the bought. since this mail was sent to me after I had already purchased the game.

So they are not charging Vat where there is not VAT to be charged (instead they increase the game price to force that "gameprice+VAT= constant" in europe). not illegal but no a "making-your-customers-happy" idea.

you may have a point in that they should indicate more clearly the VAT, but since theirs math are correct this could only be a formal defect. Probably not illegal, but for sure not a good thing for their customers.

nautsch
02-25-2009, 10:06 AM
It has been more then a month from when the first emails arrived, so, yea, anybody got a ( non standard ) reply?

No the onl thing I got is a "Standard" letter. Yeah real paper. They said though, that it would not take more than a month ... No they said, they will do evreything possible to give me more infomration in the time of a month. So far now news, but it isn't a month yet.

brabee
02-25-2009, 11:12 AM
I just noticed they sell TF2 for 10€. Nice price, really, no gameshop can compete that, especially not game.co.uk where they sell the whole Orange Box for 16.5€!!!

Abedeus
02-25-2009, 11:14 AM
I just noticed they sell TF2 for 10€. Nice price, really, no gameshop can compete that, especially not game.co.uk where they sell the whole Orange Box for 16.5€!!!

Empik.com in Poland has it for 50PLN. 10 EUR is 47PLN.

So for 3 PLN less so you don't get a box...

F3nya
02-25-2009, 12:31 PM
With the new Scout update and 50% off on Team Fotress 2 Europa gets f**ked in the crack without lube again.
US price 9.99$
UK price 6.99£
Europa price 9.99 EURO?!
And I though Valve stabilised the prices in euros on their games...

brabee
02-25-2009, 12:45 PM
And I though Valve stabilised the prices in euros on their games...

Nah, that wouldnt earn them the new executive bathroom!

MzStud_K
02-25-2009, 12:51 PM
I just saw this:

Available for $14.99 (12.99 EUR, 9.99 Pounds Sterling), Braid is due for launch via Steam on March 31, 2009.

Maybe Steam finally starts making separate prices for EUR customers!

MortalC
02-25-2009, 12:58 PM
Valve ffs add VAT at the end of the purchase like before. I don’t pay VAT on digital downloads. Why is it that when ever developers see something that works perfectly they immediately insists on trying to improve it, and they end up with ♥♥♥♥ing the whole thing up?

*VeLeRoN*
02-25-2009, 01:40 PM
With the new Scout update and 50% off on Team Fotress 2 Europa gets f**ked in the crack without lube again.

Just let it go, it's still 50% off.

brabee
02-25-2009, 02:20 PM
Just let it go, it's still 50% off.

Oh Im definitely letting this one go, dont worry!

*VeLeRoN*
02-25-2009, 03:27 PM
Oh Im definitely letting this one go, dont worry!

I'm not worried, at all. If you haven't played TF2 and don't want to buy it for 9.99 EUR, provided that you like mp games -it's your loss, really.

nautsch
02-25-2009, 03:34 PM
it's your loss, really.

... I think its Valves loss. And its well deserved.

F3nya
02-25-2009, 08:17 PM
Just let it go, it's still 50% off.

And it's still more expensive than for others.

Deltasniper
02-25-2009, 09:27 PM
You are crying about paying a measly .8 euros (Can't even buy a coke with that)compared to the UK due to the fluctuating economics?


Doesn't the UK store charge a 17.5% Vat?

6.99*1.175=8.21325 pounds
As of Feb 25 2009, the euro exchange is 1.1189.

So

8.21325 pounds * 1.1189 euros/1 pound = 9.18 Euros.
6.99+vat=9.18 Euros


Lets use Portugals 20% VAT in this example.

9.99 Euros Including Vat

9.99 Euros/1.20 = 8.325 Euros no including Vat.
With Vat 8.325*1.20=9.99 Euros

8.325 euros is not that far away from 7.821 euros.


YOU CAN SAVE .80 EUROS IF VALVE USED THE UK STORE BLAHBLAH!!!1

Prices are fair and you can always buy TF2 on amazon for 14.99 euros.

kScope
02-26-2009, 01:41 AM
WTF?

TF2 + TFC package
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/829/

Team fortress 2: 9.99€
Team fortress classic: 4.99€
-----------------------------
Individual price: 14,98€
Package price: 24,99€


Garry's Mod + TF2 package
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/558/

Team fortress 2: 9.99€
Garry's Mod: 9.99€
-----------------------------
Individual price: 19,98€
Package price: 24,99€


Good job valve! I will surely buy them!

Aniketos00
02-26-2009, 02:58 AM
I always though this was extremely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the first place. Seeing as before steam I also bought games over the internet and enjoyed a good conversion rate even with import tax.

nowisee_
02-26-2009, 04:43 AM
You are crying about paying a measly .8 euros (Can't even buy a coke with that)compared to the UK due to the fluctuating economics?

Prices are fair and you can always buy TF2 on amazon for 14.99 euros.

You are American/British right? Well if you are that mostly proves my point without me saying anything!

MortalC
02-26-2009, 05:32 AM
You are crying about paying a measly .8 euros (Can't even buy a coke with that)compared to the UK due to the fluctuating economics?


Doesn't the UK store charge a 17.5% Vat?

6.99*1.175=8.21325 pounds
As of Feb 25 2009, the euro exchange is 1.1189.

So

8.21325 pounds * 1.1189 euros/1 pound = 9.18 Euros.
6.99+vat=9.18 Euros


Lets use Portugals 20% VAT in this example.

9.99 Euros Including Vat

9.99 Euros/1.20 = 8.325 Euros no including Vat.
With Vat 8.325*1.20=9.99 Euros

8.325 euros is not that far away from 7.821 euros.


YOU CAN SAVE .80 EUROS IF VALVE USED THE UK STORE BLAHBLAH!!!1

Prices are fair and you can always buy TF2 on amazon for 14.99 euros.


First of all your UK VAT is wrong. They pay 15 % VAT. Secondly they only pay 6.99 as VAT is added in the price that is shown on the store page. So basically your entire post sucked and everything you wrote was wrong…

If you are going to post in this topic at least get a minimum of knowledge about the situation…it is getting annoying to correct UK/US people that don’t know what they are talking about…

MortalC
02-26-2009, 06:18 AM
Cry some more

Wow…you are a master of discussions aren’t you?

El Pollo Diablo
02-26-2009, 06:52 AM
Cry some more

actually he's one of those who still thinks uk is a world power. hahaha.

he doesn't get the issue anyway. it's $1 = €1. especially not for us, who don't pay VAT on downloads.

Zamav
02-26-2009, 07:52 AM
After 400k views and lots of attention, pricing is still here. I even started to doubt about the money they make. They probably are making money from this, I'd say even more so then before, so they don't even acknowledge the issue. Ultimately, the only ones to blame are the European crowd that are still buying games from Steam.

This is kinda like what Australian retailers do. They charge you more because they know the majority will pay.

I think VAT discussion is now irrelevant because Valve probably thinks they are paying the VAT, not the customer. So they probably think they are doing a favor to those countries that has VAT. On those who doesn't use VAT, they just make full profit, instead of paying VAT.

Only hope of resolving this issue is EU laws (or treates whatever you call them). If you complain to get access to UK store, it just might work. I believe Amazon prices was fixed that way. I don't see any other way, obviously they are making sales so they will continue with this pricing scheme.

MortalC
02-26-2009, 08:24 AM
The VAT issue is actually a very important issue and I still think that it is very relevant. If Valve where to say that - Because one stat in the US (Lets say California) pays 25 % VAT, everyone in the other states has to pay 25 % VAT as well. Do you think that Americans would just accept it? I don’t think they would accept it, and neither will I accept it. I don’t pay VAT on digital downloads, it is that simple and Valve should fix it.

Atnakenek
02-26-2009, 09:41 AM
I've received a letter from the european commission. It says they will take a look on it :P
AHAHAHAH FEAR VALVE!!

gunn0r
02-26-2009, 11:34 AM
I also wrote a letter to the European Commission on Fair Trade.
Additionally, I recommend everybody to buy their games NOT on Steam. Remember, there's also Ebay and other alternatives...
The fact that Valve not even recognizes the issue is just outragous! :mad:

impar
02-26-2009, 01:39 PM
Additionally, I recommend everybody to buy their games NOT on Steam.
Empire Total War purchased from Play.com.
And to think I was happpy when first knew ETW would use Steam...

Lasse69
02-26-2009, 04:00 PM
I live in Norway.
I get the prices in Euro :-(

If I travel to Great Britain, with my laptop, get online there, and shop from Steam.

Will I then get the prices in euro, or Pounds?

Bezzer
02-26-2009, 04:03 PM
I live in Norway.
I get the prices in Euro :-(

If I travel to Great Britain, with my laptop, get online there, and shop from Steam.

Will I then get the prices in euro, or Pounds?

You would get the prices in pounds.

gunn0r
02-26-2009, 04:37 PM
You would get the prices in pounds.
You can also order at Amazon.co.uk or at game.co.uk :D
A friend of mine got his copy of Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War 2 from game.co.uk: £24.99 = €27.96 + PP
http://www.game.co.uk/PC/Strategy/RealTime/~r335330/Warhammer-40000-Dawn-of-War-II/

CheckThizzz
02-26-2009, 04:54 PM
Not allowing EU members outside UK to buy in the Valve UK store is ILLEGAL! ILLEGAL, as in BREAKING THE LAW. You get that Valve? European Commision will correct you for this. JUST WAIT AND SEE.

Valve is discriminating EU members! Valve's Steam store is heavily overpriced. You can buy Retail packages cheaper, and register the games on Steam!

I don't care how many times this has been said, It should be repeated endlessly! Valve will NOT GET AWAY THIS TIME

CheckThizzz
02-26-2009, 04:56 PM
I forgot to ask:

Any response from Valve yet?

:)

Wulfklaue
02-26-2009, 05:29 PM
I forgot to ask:

Any response from Valve yet?

:)

Dream on ... If they don't answer after 2 months, its rather clear they are never going to answer.

More interesting are the mails send to the developers, who also get not response. Almost like they all have been instructed to not answer to them.

Combined with the actions we see here. Not a pretty picture.

At best, we can all hope that one day, the prices will magically be "acceptable" again. Like waking up from a bad dream. But, we have more chance off getting a date with Angelina Jolie then valve admitting that they are out to screw the EU customers, and fixing the problem. ;)

ikke111
02-26-2009, 05:58 PM
More interesting are the mails send to the developers, who also get not response. Almost like they all have been instructed to not answer to them.


Almost that is exactly what they have done but worse is the heavy censoring of this topic by the moderators

hahahafr
02-26-2009, 06:01 PM
The developers develop games. They have nothing to do with the £/€/$ conversion rate of Steam. Valve and the big publishers have to be blamed for this huge mistake.

SynTerro
02-26-2009, 07:19 PM
Games bought so far this year
Prince of Persia - Got retail at 339kr=36,45€(on 17 januar 2009 when 1€=9.30NOK), Steam price 44,99€. I saved 8,54€ on retail.
Mirror's Egde - Got retail at 399kr=42,90€(on 17 januar 2009 when 1€=9.30NOK), Steam price 49,99€. I saved 7,09€ on retail.
F.E.A.R. 2 - Got retail at 379kr=43,41€(on 12 februar 2009 when 1€=8.73NOK), Steam price 49,99€. I saved 6,58€ on retail.

22,21€ saved so far this year going retail instead of Steam. Valve you see this?

Valve WE ARE JUST TRYING TO HELP YOU TO DO THINGS RIGHT.

Lasse69
02-27-2009, 02:12 AM
I am becomeng a good customer at Direct2Drive.
They charge 49,95$ where Steam charge 49,95 euro, so it is a no brainer to me :-)

strandedPL
02-27-2009, 04:59 AM
The developers develop games. They have nothing to do with the £/€/$ conversion rate of Steam. Valve and the big publishers have to be blamed for this huge mistake.

We've send out hundreds of e-mail to publishers as well, only the small ones or regional (from my country for example) answered.

Wulfklaue
02-27-2009, 05:19 AM
The developers develop games. They have nothing to do with the £/€/$ conversion rate of Steam. Valve and the big publishers have to be blamed for this huge mistake.

Ask one person, you may not get a answer.
Ask a dozen person something, the chance that one will answer back to your questions is a lot higher.
Have few hundred people ask those dozen persons, and your chance goes up again.

Guess how many answer we got from Valve? At best there is one known answer from Gabe ( who did not go into the questions asked by the mailer ).

In other words, they have clearly been giving instruction to keep there mouths closed on this mater. Its not exactly on logical, seeing as there is even no official PR response, so they sure as hell don't want anybody to "rock the boat".

Look at the response on Gabe's "PC Games are to expensive". In the EU this has been received with a rather nice backlash. Valve, or Gabe response? None... All quiet at the western front.

Some more prices:

Tom Clancy's EndWar (PC)
EU shop: As low as 21.95€
Steam: 49.99€
http://www.budgetgaming.nl/game-profile/tom+clancy04896s+endwar_PC.html

Notice this: 16 shops < 30€, only 5 shops in the 40€ range, en only 1 shop with the same price as Steam.

Yea, looks like Steam is following the set prices in the EU. ;)

Kaiser Soze
02-27-2009, 06:33 AM
While I must admit I did buy a few games from steam after this issue, they were only in Xmas and just because some games were still cheaper for me even thought I was angry to may more than other people outside europe for the same thing.

I didn't buy anything outside that period I doubt that I would. Maybe with a very good weekend deal, but other than that my monery has already said bye to valve (funny thing is that I've bought a few games outside steam that already uses steam)

CornelSHS
02-27-2009, 07:34 AM
I guess my last game on Steam is purchased, and that was GTA4 back in november.

mchufnagel
02-27-2009, 08:11 AM
Not allowing EU members outside UK to buy in the Valve UK store is ILLEGAL! ILLEGAL, as in BREAKING THE LAW. You get that Valve? European Commision will correct you for this. JUST WAIT AND SEE.

Valve is discriminating EU members! Valve's Steam store is heavily overpriced. You can buy Retail packages cheaper, and register the games on Steam!

I don't care how many times this has been said, It should be repeated endlessly! Valve will NOT GET AWAY THIS TIME

Sadly, I think we all know how this is going to end up. If the EU slaps Valve's hands on this matter. Valve will just up the UK store prices to match the EU store prices. :mad:

Cypher__
02-27-2009, 08:16 AM
Sadly, I think we all know how this is going to end up. If the EU slaps Valve's hands on this matter. Valve will just up the UK store prices to match the EU store prices. :mad:

They can't really raise the UK prices anymore for some games. Tom Clancys Endwar is £35 on Steam while play.com has it for £18 + free delivery. Not to mention Emire: Total War - £40 on Steam and THE SPECIAL EDITION OF THE GAME is £35 on play.com. So, us UK'ers are getting ripped off too.

They've already lost a lot of buyers from the EU, I don't think they can afford to lose the UK buyers as well.

ZombieBobie
02-27-2009, 08:33 AM
most of the people in my guild have stopped using Steam for downloads - now they just reg cd-keys with steam instead.

And most of them used to use steam extensivly - whenever people talked about games it would always be "just get it off steam". Now its "You can get it for half price from Play.com instead of steam".

I.e. Dawn of War 2- Steam: £49,99 - Play.com £22,99.

The mood has definatly changed towards Steam among the 700+ members of the guild I'm in.

SynTerro
02-27-2009, 09:44 AM
most of the people in my guild have stopped using Steam for downloads - now they just reg cd-keys with steam instead.

And most of them used to use steam extensivly - whenever people talked about games it would always be "just get it off steam". Now its "You can get it for half price from Play.com instead of steam".

I.e. Dawn of War 2- Steam: £49,99 - Play.com £22,99.

The mood has definatly changed towards Steam among the 700+ members of the guild I'm in.
eh.. Dawn of War 2 is at £34,99 - http://store.steampowered.com/app/15620/?cc=uk
I think you mean 49.99€ which is the EU/Norway/Switzerland price - http://store.steampowered.com/app/15620/?cc=no

hahahafr
02-27-2009, 09:53 AM
Steam is scamming their Europeans cutsomers. Just don't buy on Steam if you are in the Euro Zone.

CheckThizzz
02-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Go Steam yourselves Valve!

-edit: hey I finally found a curse word that the forums doesn't censor! :)

El Pollo Diablo
02-27-2009, 01:14 PM
i can't believe it.

tomb raider underworld:

us: $39.99
eu: €49.99 -> $63.45

do you ever think about what you're doing valve? as much as i want to use steam and buy games there: NO WAY!

and masking this as a "service" is... well.. clearly dastardly (sam & max)...

and no, i don't pay any "included" VAT.

oh, before i forget:

UK: £22.99 -> $32.90

i see no reason to behave or being nice about this. we got our faces slapped. some people should lose their job about this. but no, it's the mods censoring this forum. nice job!

get lost, valve.

Widdit
02-27-2009, 02:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkSwHDAr2uw

El Pollo Diablo
02-27-2009, 05:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkSwHDAr2uw

oh great! i made it on youtube! too bad apparently nobody got the hint about the quote referring to the sam & max game series. but fun isn't something everbody understands, is it.

warmaster670
02-27-2009, 06:02 PM
i can't believe it.

tomb raider underworld:

us: $39.99
eu: €49.99 -> $63.45

do you ever think about what you're doing valve? as much as i want to use steam and buy games there: NO WAY!

and masking this as a "service" is... well.. clearly dastardly (sam & max)...

and no, i don't pay any "included" VAT.

oh, before i forget:

UK: £22.99 -> $32.90

i see no reason to behave or being nice about this. we got our faces slapped. some people should lose their job about this. but no, it's the mods censoring this forum. nice job!

get lost, valve.
as we all know, the best way to get someone to do something is insult them, oh wait thats the exact opposite thing you do when you want someone to do something, guess people on this forum havnt learned this bit of common sense yet.

forgot to add the obvious, if you dont like the prices, then buy it somewhere else!

Cypher__
02-27-2009, 06:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkSwHDAr2uw

You sir, are awesome ;)

Axke
02-28-2009, 01:21 AM
Well am still saving at least in Denmark :-D

49.99 euro empire total war is 372.67Kr


Empire total war in shops 399.99k For normal

cd and games web site 420kr


Special add is 59.99 thats 447.22kr in shops

cd and game 475kr on web site

so am still saving some cash

Simplex
02-28-2009, 03:43 AM
forgot to add the obvious, if you dont like the prices, then buy it somewhere else!
forgot to add the obvious, if you dont like the thread, then post somewhere else!

BTW. Another fantastic weekend deal for europeans ;) On Lost Planet:

USA: 5$=4€
UK 3,49£=5$=4€
Europe 6.3$=5€


If my math is right, game is 25% more expensive for Europeans (not counting Englishmen).

UK price is identical (equivalent) to US price - why can't this be done for whole europe? Valve just proved that they know how to do it - why they don't want to do it another matter.

Deltasniper
02-28-2009, 06:32 AM
Where else can you get lost planet for 5 euros?

nautsch
02-28-2009, 06:46 AM
Where else can you get lost planet for 5 euros?

Thats not the point. No doubt the offer is good (even though the game is crap, which really makes the offer "you get what you pay for"). BUT it is even cheaper in the UK and the US out of NO reason.

Why is it 4,99€ AND $4,99? Theres no conversion just a replacemet of the currency symbol. Thats the problem with this.

Simplex
02-28-2009, 07:05 AM
Where else can you get lost planet for 5 euros?

On both US and UK steam I can get it 20% cheaper - for 4 euros. But valve does not allow me to buy there - which in case of UK store is illegal, because as a citizen of EU I should have right to buy in UK store, since UK is also member of EU. Let's hope European Commission will force Valve to stop breaking EU free trade laws.

palker4
02-28-2009, 08:47 AM
so i strarted up steam today and got all prices in GBP http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4821/beznzvuopf.jpg as you can see
so i guess my question is did valve realized their error or EU commision pushed on them or is it just glitch that will disappear soon


Edit i guess i found reason for this
maybe that it is because my inet connection i looked on my ip here http://whatismyipaddress.com/staticpages/index.php/lookup-results and it was not able to locate my position
Only this site could identify my ip location http://ip-lookup.net/ so i will rather not buy anything now

nautsch
02-28-2009, 09:37 AM
so i will rather not buy anything now

Why not? now that you have the ability to do so? I would be interested, if they change the pricing once you tell them where you are from in the checkout dialog.

The_Apeking
02-28-2009, 10:12 AM
He won't be able to buy anything there as long as he doesn't has a british bank account.

palker4
02-28-2009, 10:19 AM
He won't be able to buy anything there as long as he doesn't has a british bank account.
i use paypal so ithink that would not be a problem problem would that they would ban me for buying cheaper games

Tonya982
02-28-2009, 12:29 PM
I wish Valve would show a tiny amount of respect and at least say something (although the mods trigger happy censoring seems to be saying something)

This is worse than braking up with your girlfriend by text. :mad:

duncans.pumpkin
02-28-2009, 12:38 PM
i use paypal so ithink that would not be a problem problem would that they would ban me for buying cheaper games

doesnt work like that valve put in an extra check on paypal to make sure its from/to the right country. They ruined my xmas sales as i was in russia at the time.

redavatar
02-28-2009, 02:52 PM
doesnt work like that valve put in an extra check on paypal to make sure its from/to the right country. They ruined my xmas sales as i was in russia at the time.

A friend from Norway moved to the United States to live with his girlfriend and told me that even though his Paypal account is now set to the USA and his credit card has an American address, he's still unable to get games for the American price because his Steam account is still said to be European. :rolleyes: So: American credit card, American Paypal address, American IP ... and Valve still insist that he's European. *sigh*

nautsch
02-28-2009, 03:36 PM
A friend from Norway moved to the United States to live with his girlfriend and told me that even though his Paypal account is now set to the USA and his credit card has an American address, he's still unable to get games for the American price because his Steam account is still said to be European. :rolleyes: So: American credit card, American Paypal address, American IP ... and Valve still insist that he's European. *sigh*

Did he try deleting his ClientRegistry.blob?? Because Valve really determines where you are through your IP AND saves this to the famous file.

Dr DooM
03-01-2009, 02:32 AM
I don't think that recommending ways to circumvent the safeguards that VALVE puts in to specifically avoid that kind of behavior is a particularly good idea. It only gives them an excuse to ban. Do it somewhere else...you know where.


why bother anyways, there are other places you can buy at reasonable prices.

redavatar
03-01-2009, 04:38 AM
Steam only has one thing really going for it, let's face it. It's convenient. Or at least, it's supposed to be convenient. Want a game? Buy it. Sadly enough, you often pay twice the amount and have to wait nearly a day if you're unlucky enough to be stuck with a crap Steam server when downloading the game. Personally, I prefer a manual, a case, a means to install it even if my internet is down, a means to PLAY it even if my internet is down and a means to apply the patches that I want.

palker4
03-01-2009, 07:23 AM
Well when i buy a game on steam it means that i can play it next day or i if i prepurchase it i can play it when it is released plus i get some bonus with it and prices in Steam store UK are usually way better than EU steam and 5-10 eur better than in slovak retail stores

Kingston
03-01-2009, 01:09 PM
I haven't bought a single game off Steam since the price change.

Steam was supposed to reduce prices as the costs of retail (packaging, shipment etc.) don't come into play. Instead it's now more expensive than retail. What a joke.

Cardboard093
03-01-2009, 03:48 PM
Pffft...why pay €50 on Steam for a game that takes 10+ hours to download, when I can get the same game for €20, WITH a box and manual, and that only takes a 20 minute installation before I can play it.

puffader
03-01-2009, 06:08 PM
Pffft...why pay €50 on Steam for a game that takes 10+ hours to download, when I can get the same game for €20, WITH a box and manual, and that only takes a 20 minute installation before I can play it.

Exactly, so if you can do that you shouldn't complain about the conveniance here!

Logicalerror
03-02-2009, 12:43 AM
Did he try deleting his ClientRegistry.blob?? Because Valve really determines where you are through your IP AND saves this to the famous file.

Hmm.. does that mean that if you log-in / generate your account on your laptop while in the united states, that you can then continue to buy games at american prices from then on?
Probably wouldn't work with an existing account i think.. too bad ;)

wontolla
03-02-2009, 03:47 AM
Does anybody opened a ticket and try to explain support that EU prices are wrong? could be an interesting answer, or asking to but at the UK shop..............

Johnnnyboy1989
03-02-2009, 03:55 AM
Where stays the European Commission? To stop this Madness?! :(

SCantan
03-02-2009, 05:22 AM
Does anybody opened a ticket and try to explain support that EU prices are wrong? could be an interesting answer, or asking to but at the UK shop..............

Yeah, I did. I'm in Norway, so not even in the EU. I think a lot of people have raised tickets. So far I haven't gotten any reply (Ticket was in early January).

nowisee_
03-02-2009, 06:36 AM
I don't think they will ever comment on this.. and if they do it had better be good. You can't get back lost goodwill unless you give the customer something..

Unshaved
03-02-2009, 06:48 AM
I don't think they will ever comment on this.. and if they do it had better be good. You can't get back lost goodwill unless you give the customer something..

Yeah, what he said. Give me a gift coupon to spend of about $100. Yes, unfortunately that's worth more than €100 in the steamstore and i'll be happy.

For a week.

FidelCastrol
03-02-2009, 07:58 AM
Well well...not been around much since my comp blew up like 3 weeks ago, and I see that nothing has changed ?

...but something HAS changed. Bough DoW2 from Play.com for 30€ with free shipping, instead of Steam and its infamous 50€ for it.

And 2 others people I know did the same.

strandedPL
03-02-2009, 11:19 AM
Does anybody opened a ticket and try to explain support that EU prices are wrong? could be an interesting answer, or asking to but at the UK shop..............

They don't respond at all.

MortalC
03-02-2009, 05:15 PM
Does anybody opened a ticket and try to explain support that EU prices are wrong? could be an interesting answer, or asking to but at the UK shop..............

They simply close all tickets without any comments or replys...

El Pollo Diablo
03-02-2009, 10:26 PM
as we all know, the best way to get someone to do something is insult them, oh wait thats the exact opposite thing you do when you want someone to do something, guess people on this forum havnt learned this bit of common sense yet.

forgot to add the obvious, if you dont like the prices, then buy it somewhere else!

omg, a smart guy! u'll never get it, sorry!

You sir, are awesome ;)

yeah, i think the speaking guy must be g*ay, just listen to his voice... eeeeek!

and the "clearly dastardly" thing from sam & max... you all won't ever get it... sarcasm is a hard thing to understand, i know...

Fireball
03-03-2009, 12:39 AM
They simply close all tickets without any comments or replys...

They tried to answer them in the beginning - but in fact it doesn't matter, since their hands are probably tied.

For all those who understand german I got this answer back in December last year:

Hallo Fireball,

Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht an das STEAM Support Team.

Leider bieten wir in der Schweiz derzeit nur EURO-Preise an. Wir sind uns aber den Umständen hierzu bewusst und ich werde Ihr Feedback entsprechend weiterleiten

Beste Grüße,

<some name>
Steam Support Team


Well, I thought, alright, let's wait a bit and not buy games from steam and it will settle eventually. And it might still do settle, but managers tend to wait for a quarter before making major changes so they have unskewed statistics - thus it will be probably at least another month.

But recently as I started Steam I just got this perky News that Valve "tends to convert their PC hardware to the latest", i.e. Core i7, Nvidia GeForce GTX 285 and I was compulsed to follow up on that.

Ich möchte nur darauf hinweisen, dass ich und all meine Kollegen keine leeren Versprechen machen - das Steamportal hat für mich/uns keinerlei Wert mehr, bis auf die existierenden Spiele und stellt gegenüber Amazon oder sogar den lokalen Läden keine Konkurrenz mehr dar.

Es ist jetzt 2 Monate seit meinem ursprünglichen Request her und ich spüre keine Reaktion in der Hinsicht - im Gegenteil: ich finde einen ziemlich dümmlichen Newsletter dass Valve ständig die schnellsten PCs und Mördergrafikkarten kaufen muss - was sich der Otto-Normalverbraucher hier und auch in Deutschland, kaum leisten kann, ohne eine Niere zu verkaufen. Frechheit!

Ich war ein ursprünglicher Verfechter der Steam-Plattform und deshalb hoffe ich inständig, dass die Verbraucher ihr Kaufverhalten meinem anpassen und solch neuerliche Arroganz wie sie von eurer Firma gezeigt wird, abstrafen.

For a short translation:

I vented my anger about adding insult to the injury by posting these kind of news letters, that they must upgrade their hardware, that I was once a fan of the Steam platform and that I hope that consumers will punish this kind of arrogant demeanor with purchasing games elsewhere, just like me.

Greetings from Switzerland!

Oggy1985
03-03-2009, 02:01 AM
They simply close all tickets without any comments or replys...

lol, it's like children - they close their eyes and think that it isn't there anymore. But yes, the "monster" is still in the closet.

Sgt.Kokken
03-03-2009, 03:07 AM
lol, it's like children - they close their eyes and think that it isn't there anymore. But yes, the "monster" is still in the closet.

This is why we with all these post in this thread, are trying to chase the monster out of the closet so we either can beat it to death or let it explain why its been acting so rude lately!! ;)

Well... Steam is to me only the games I own now, buying is done in retail stores.

I seriously hope that Valve will realize this problem is going to hurt their own business.

Come on Valve... we need a statement of some sort on this topic!!! Its not that difficult!!! We won't bite!! ;)

jihn
03-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Bah!

I want Empire: Total War, but with steam still having theese fked up prices i think i have to get it somewere else...

And they wonder why people are pirating?

MagrothJ
03-03-2009, 12:21 PM
Bah!

I want Empire: Total War, but with steam still having theese fked up prices i think i have to get it somewere else...


Yeah, same here.

strandedPL
03-03-2009, 02:44 PM
Empire Total War NEEDS Steam to work = retail version WILL BE registerable on Steam

Retail version is cheaper.

Source: http://www.totalwar.com/empire/gameinfo/pre_order.php

Wulfklaue
03-03-2009, 03:01 PM
Another two for the list ( price drops ):

Assassin's Creed: Director's Cut Edition
US: $19.99
EU: 29.99€ = 37.7$

Almost 200% difference.

Far Cry 2
US: $29.99
EU: 49.99€ = 62.8$

And we have another 200% winner...

Interesting how those US prices keep dropping, yet very few EU games get a price drop. ;)

EU = European Valued Customers ( Translation: Rip them off, they are not US citizens or US "allies" like the the UK ).

hahahafr
03-03-2009, 03:36 PM
Don't buy on Steam if you are in the Euro Zone. Can't say much more.

Lasse69
03-03-2009, 05:16 PM
I just now bought my fifth game retail, after steam got the 1€=1$.

This time it was Empire: Total War, again from Play.com for nearly 50% of Steam prices :-)

Keep it up Steam ;-)

SynTerro
03-03-2009, 05:35 PM
I just now bought my fifth game retail, after steam got the 1€=1$.

This time it was Empire: Total War, again from Play.com for nearly 50% of Steam prices :-)

Keep it up Steam ;-)

Games bought on Steam in 2008 before the change: 52(a lot of package deals)
Games bought on Steam after the change: 0, in plans 0(could change if € currency drops or Valve gets things right)
Retail after the change: 5, in plans 5 could easily be more.

Sivlon
03-04-2009, 04:55 AM
I'm also buying everything through retail now :)

Tibo
03-04-2009, 06:21 AM
So am I :)
Cheap games are cheap! :D

Roachz2
03-04-2009, 08:02 AM
same :D cheap games are the pwn....

supernaut
03-04-2009, 08:10 AM
Assassin's Creed: Director's Cut Edition
US: $19.99
EU: 29.99€ = 37.7$

Almost 200% difference.

That is ♥♥♥♥ing appalling to be quite honest.

Wasser
03-04-2009, 09:57 AM
To be fair, those price differences are due to regional pricing by the publishers rather than Valve's botched conversion. I believe that regional pricing existed on Steam before the implementation of the local currency "feature".

SynTerro
03-04-2009, 10:25 AM
To be fair, those price differences are due to regional pricing by the publishers rather than Valve's botched conversion. I believe that regional pricing existed on Steam before the implementation of the local currency "feature".

The problem is that it does not match regional pricing, believe me the old prices was closer. At least this is the case in Norway.

nautsch
03-04-2009, 12:01 PM
To be fair, those price differences are due to regional pricing by the publishers rather than Valve's botched conversion. I believe that regional pricing existed on Steam before the implementation of the local currency "feature".

To be fair. WRONG! The big difference was introduced WITH the "feature" of local currencies. Before that, the prices could be regional, but normally weren't.

Arnstone88
03-04-2009, 01:28 PM
To be fair. WRONG! The big difference was introduced WITH the "feature" of local currencies. Before that, the prices could be regional, but normally weren't.

I think he means the 19.99$ and the 29.99€ difference, not the additional difference you get in the currency conversions.
It is true, in US they did have some games at lower prices, and even some games you couldn't even get in Europe.
Still, the price difference we get from Valve's PHAIL at currency conversion is still crap.

nautsch
03-04-2009, 03:20 PM
I think he means the 19.99$ and the 29.99€ difference, not the additional difference you get in the currency conversions.

OK. Maybe i was a little harsh. I read the post out of context and did not see, that he meant the particular game. Its still a shame.

CheckThizzz
03-04-2009, 03:25 PM
Any word from Valve yet?

Kub666
03-04-2009, 04:14 PM
Any word from Valve yet?
Are you kidding? Why would they give a flying ♥♥♥♥ about their paying customers?

Wasser
03-05-2009, 01:28 AM
I think he means the 19.99$ and the 29.99€ difference, not the additional difference you get in the currency conversions.
Yes, that is what I meant. For example, Mass Effect costing 45€ in continental Europe and $20 in the US is caused by EA's ♥♥♥♥ty pricing scheme and not by Valve's localised currency (although the localised currency may very well have changed the price from $45 to 45€). Empire: Total War costing 50€ in continental Europe and $50 in the US is caused by Valve's localised currency.

brabee
03-05-2009, 01:32 AM
Are you kidding? Why would they give a flying ♥♥♥♥ about their paying customers?

Sad but true :/

wontolla
03-05-2009, 02:47 AM
Just opened a ticket because Blazing Angels pack prices are wrong, every game is cheaper separately, and told about the wrong conversion settings, btw every games is around 5 pounds at Amazon UK

Wulfklaue
03-05-2009, 04:32 AM
Yes, that is what I meant. For example, Mass Effect costing 45€ in continental Europe and $20 in the US is caused by EA's ♥♥♥♥ty pricing scheme and not by Valve's localized currency (although the localized currency may very well have changed the price from $45 to 45€). Empire: Total War costing 50€ in continental Europe and $50 in the US is caused by Valve's localized currency.

Valve is running a world wide business. Customers are able to compare, and buy products from almost any part off the world.

Regional prices ( especially between the US & EU ) just don't cut it anymore, even more so when both "zones" have a simulate income level.

The fact is, Valve has more to say about regional prices then we all think. EA for instance has long announced that several titles are dropped to 19€. Yet, Steam still sells those for 44.95€. But the US had the price drop ages before. Just like with the titles above.

So my point stands. Regional prices ( especially between economic zones with a simulate income ), can not result in price differences off 200 to 300%...

The fact is, up to now, all we have eared from publishers / developers is that Valve sets the prices.

tragikos
03-05-2009, 04:52 AM
Is there a sales statistics page for us to see if sales were affected by this Valve's decision?

supernaut
03-05-2009, 06:38 AM
Is there a sales statistics page for us to see if sales were affected by this Valve's decision?

Nope. Besides the Top Sellers list and the sales percentages Valve throws at us occasional, there's no actual numbers.

wontolla
03-05-2009, 10:45 AM
It seems my post about wrong price at Blazing Angels Pack was deleted, I hope my ticket keeps open.

zoltar777
03-05-2009, 10:59 AM
Dear Steam,

I just wanted to let you now I've got my EU complain confirmation (BTW did you get yours guys ?) I hope this abuse and discrimination will cost Steam a lot of $$$$, in the meantime you have really nice banner advertising Empire Total War but I bought it today much and I mean MUCH cheaper in retail.Sorry :) but you are not going to see my money.

yours sincerely,

Gamer

Simplex
03-05-2009, 02:09 PM
Here was a longish post where I wondered what will be the price of Braid on steam, which made no sense since I noticed this:
http://store.steampowered.com/news/2291/

Again Europeans (sans UK) pay most, US is in the middle, and UK residents pay the lowest price.

SynTerro
03-05-2009, 05:19 PM
Here was a longish post where I wondered what will be the price of Braid on steam, which made no sense since I noticed this:
http://store.steampowered.com/news/2291/

Again Europeans (sans UK) pay most, US is in the middle, and UK residents pay the lowest price.

Yeah it should have been 11,99€(15,05$). still the highest but the difference so small it can vary on daily basis by currency exchange rate.

Dear Steam,

I just wanted to let you now I've got my EU complain confirmation (BTW did you get yours guys ?) I hope this abuse and discrimination will cost Steam a lot of $$$$, in the meantime you have really nice banner advertising Empire Total War but I bought it today much and I mean MUCH cheaper in retail.Sorry but you are not going to see my money.

yours sincerely,

Gamer

Did you get the same message everyone else got(it only say they are currently working on the case), or is this a new one?

TopDollar
03-05-2009, 09:19 PM
As much as i like Steam and the content it provides, i can't help but get annoyed at the price tag of some games.

For example:

Fallout 3 £26.99 on Steam - £16.99 for retail version.

Bioshock £13.99 on Steam - £10 for retail version.

Dawn Of War II £34.99 on Steam - £22.99 for retail version.

Empire: Total War £39.99 on Steam - £29.99 for retail version.


This is just a small example (there are loads) when comparing retail and downloadable games.

Considering there are no distribution costs for downloadable games i.e. no disc, no printed manual, no box, and no shelf space fees, these games shouldn't be price so high.

Games just aren't worth £30/40 and asking such high prices for downladable games is laughable considering the no distribution costs.

I for one won't be moved on my maximum £25 per title, therefore i'll go to the place where i can get the title the cheapest.

The future isn't digital downloads if they are priced at these ridiculous numbers.

janka^
03-05-2009, 09:34 PM
i know its tough but steam didnt do this becouse they hate europeans, just say thanks to this cool economic crisis whats happening in this small world :S

Simplex
03-06-2009, 12:48 AM
As much as i like Steam and the content it provides, i can't help but get annoyed at the price tag of some games.
Oh yeah? If you think this is expensive, then look what prices rest of Europe get.

For example:
Fallout 3 £26.99 on Steam - £16.99 for retail version.
Fallout 3 £40 on Euro-Steam, £35 on Dollar-Steam

Bioshock £13.99 on Steam - £10 for retail version.
Bioshock £17 on Euro-Steam, £14 on Dollar-Steam

Dawn Of War II £34.99 on Steam - £22.99 for retail version.
Dawn Of War II £44 on European Steam, £35 on Dollar-Steam

Empire: Total War £39.99 on Steam - £29.99 for retail version.

Empire: Total War £44 on Euro-Steam, £35 on Dollar-Steam

And you thought steam prices in UK are high ;) They are actually low (relatively for Steam ;)), compared to absolute rip-off, daylight robbery prices for rest of Europeans. UK-Steam prices are often even less than US prices! (but still too high, of course)

Brap
03-06-2009, 06:44 AM
I just checked H.A.W.X. at the Euro Play.com – it’s just €23.49 as opposed to Steam’s €49.99, a whopping difference of €26.50. I could buy two and still manage to save €3 :eek:

Oldjim
03-06-2009, 06:49 AM
EU investigation of cross border e-trading http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/03/06/eu_cross_border_trade_report/

SynTerro
03-06-2009, 06:59 AM
EU investigation of cross border e-trading http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/03/06/eu_cross_border_trade_report/

Here is the press release, available in all EU languages.
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/09/354&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

..and a 75 pages long report about it.

MortalC
03-06-2009, 07:50 AM
i know its tough but steam didnt do this becouse they hate europeans, just say thanks to this cool economic crisis whats happening in this small world :S

Eh no this is Valves fault and no one else. The economy didn’t get VAT added in the price, Valve did that…

MortalC
03-06-2009, 07:58 AM
As much as i like Steam and the content it provides, i can't help but get annoyed at the price tag of some games.

For example:

Fallout 3 £26.99 on Steam - £16.99 for retail version.

Bioshock £13.99 on Steam - £10 for retail version.

Dawn Of War II £34.99 on Steam - £22.99 for retail version.

Empire: Total War £39.99 on Steam - £29.99 for retail version.


This is just a small example (there are loads) when comparing retail and downloadable games.

Considering there are no distribution costs for downloadable games i.e. no disc, no printed manual, no box, and no shelf space fees, these games shouldn't be price so high.

Games just aren't worth £30/40 and asking such high prices for downladable games is laughable considering the no distribution costs.

I for one won't be moved on my maximum £25 per title, therefore i'll go to the place where i can get the title the cheapest.

The future isn't digital downloads if they are priced at these ridiculous numbers.

One of the major issues with Steam is that they start to high with there pricing, and when retail prices drop pretty fast (within 2-3 weeks after release), the gap becomes even wider as Valve don’t reduce the prices at the same rate as retail does.

Valve have 2 options in my opinion, either start reducing prices on the same rate as retail or put there starting prices lower from the start so that they are cheaper then retail in the beginning but comes equally priced after a few weeks.

kfccaleb
03-06-2009, 09:14 AM
Here is the press release, available in all EU languages.
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/09/354&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

..and a 75 pages long report about it.


Very good news, looks like EU is doing something in this case. So only weekend deals until autumn 2009 :cool:

theyarecoming4u
03-06-2009, 09:46 AM
One of the major issues with Steam is that they start to high with there pricing, and when retail prices drop pretty fast (within 2-3 weeks after release), the gap becomes even wider as Valve don’t reduce the prices at the same rate as retail does.
Exactly. But the starting prices are too much anyway. H.A.W.X is £18 at retail but £35 on Steam - ridiculous. And £40 for Empire: Total War? WTF are they smoking?

Near Elite
03-06-2009, 01:00 PM
Yes. I think Steam would feel better economical by introducing some kind of flexible prices.

It's really silly to keep no-longer-that-fresh CoD4, CoD5, Fallout 3, GTA4 (and many more) at 45-50€, when many retails are already selling them for less than half of that price.

revenant2
03-06-2009, 02:36 PM
!VAT TAX!


Value Added Tax Tax

Haha

Abedeus
03-06-2009, 03:08 PM
I was thinking of buying Mass Effect on Steam, seeing how there's going to be a major patch.

But it costs 45 EUR. It's a lot.

Polish shops have it for a bit more than 15 EUR...

Elbart
03-06-2009, 03:31 PM
Then buy it there. Vote with your money, the only language Failve understands.

nautsch
03-06-2009, 04:10 PM
Then buy it there. Vote with your money, the only language Failve understands.

I have to second this.

Phinor
03-06-2009, 06:52 PM
Then buy it there. Vote with your money, the only language Failve understands.

Although do keep in mind that the retail version of Mass Effect has DRM so bad you won't be playing the game few years (or in my case few months) into the future unless they eventually release the activation revoke tool.

EA store also has it for 15 euros right now but I want it in Steam..

Miraglyth
03-07-2009, 04:34 AM
Posting my support as a resident of the UK. Even though this particular joke hasn't affected is, the price of most gaming media in the UK is as extortionate as the rest of Europe, so I definitely understand everyone's pain here.

nyto*
03-07-2009, 10:28 AM
-simple, since 1€=1$ for valve on steam, amazon et play.co.uk got better price.
-except on special Week-end Deal, steam is nonsense.
-Even pre-purchase 10% off is a joke... (pre purchase an non finish game, more better special offer on release day (pack of 4 license of L4D) and even more better special offer with Week End deal if you wait few month ... we see it with L4D

Sorry For my english
Old French customer

Cuirass
03-08-2009, 05:23 AM
you forget taxrates...little loughable math your doing there..without taxes :D...you better say :"valve i dont want to pay taxes in my country so make games cheaper!"

Xenesis
03-08-2009, 06:55 AM
As an Australian who regularly suffers this crap from other companies (1 USD = 2AUD even when the AUD was 0.95USD!), I offer my sympathies for all the unfortunate people who are getting screwed by these unscrupulous manipulations of trade borders and EULAs.

nautsch
03-08-2009, 07:05 AM
you forget taxrates...little loughable math your doing there..without taxes :D...you better say :"valve i dont want to pay taxes in my country so make games cheaper!"

I don't know what you mean. Every 3 pages in this thread, there is somebody, who says: "But thats only VAT youre paying more."

I have yet to hear from a country with 100% VAT. Even with VAT already included Europeans gets screwed.

Rhoninthewizard
03-08-2009, 07:18 AM
you forget taxrates...little loughable math your doing there..without taxes :D...you better say :"valve i dont want to pay taxes in my country so make games cheaper!"
Don't know to whom you are responding, but if you want taxes, fine.
I'll compare the prices from UK and EU with the US one plus VAT 15%, respectively 20%(I think this would be the average for EU).
Half-Life 2: Episode Two
US: $14.99
EU: 14,99€=$18.84
US+20%: $17.98
UK: £8.99=$12.72
US+15%: $17.23

Left 4 Dead
US: $49.99
EU: 44,99€=$56.55
US+20%: $59.98
UK: £26.99=$38.19
US+15%: $57.48

The Orange Box
US: $29.99
EU: 29,99€=$37.70
US+20%: $35.98
UK: £16.99=$24.04
US+15%: $34.48

Crysis® Complete Pack
US: $59.99
EU: 59,99€=$75.41
US+20%: $71.98
UK: £32.99=$46.69
US+15%: $68.98

Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War - Soulstorm
US: $29.99
EU: 14,99€=$18.84
US+20%: $35.98
UK: £16.99=$24.04
US+15%: $34.48

ashley hienke
03-08-2009, 07:47 AM
Wow this is bad...

t0v3
03-08-2009, 07:54 AM
Some prices baffle me. For example why would anyone pay £40 to download the entire ETW game when you can walk in to a shop and buy it for £30, or even order it from some places online for £25

It makes no sense

lackoo
03-08-2009, 10:30 AM
Well,back to the open source games , like OpenTTD and FreedroidRPG .

nautsch
03-08-2009, 11:36 AM
Well,back to the open source games , like OpenTTD and FreedroidRPG .

Missed the point much?

lackoo
03-08-2009, 12:26 PM
Missed the point much?

No.

1 EUR = 316,00 HUF
1 USD = 249,29 HUF
1 GBP = 354,32 HUF

nautsch
03-08-2009, 02:24 PM
No.

1 EUR = 316,00 HUF
1 USD = 249,29 HUF
1 GBP = 354,32 HUF

Yeah. Ok. But what has that to do with open source games? ... nothing. Even the price has nothing to do with open or closed source. Let alone the conversions/regional prices.

Open source games are a good thing. But you can have BOTH. open source ADN closed source. The way you said it, sounded, as if it's like: "Games on Steam are too expensive now. Now i will play those open source games again."

I mean, what??

bassoman
03-09-2009, 01:50 AM
I am disappointed this hasn't been fixed yet :(

Attacker
03-09-2009, 01:57 AM
This is unfair.
Will Valve comment on this?

macho
03-09-2009, 03:02 AM
I'm starting to not like this. It said "world of goo" costed 5$. I bought it, and it turns out it costed 5€. Well, this is a small deal, but I don't think I'll be buying anything more expensive on steam than that.

omgus
03-09-2009, 04:11 AM
Just let us choose what currency to pay with thanks.

supernaut
03-09-2009, 04:20 AM
I'm ♥♥♥♥ing astounded that no major gaming website has contacted Valve or even asked one question about this during a random interview. Thumbs up for journalism!

wavecutter
03-09-2009, 07:03 AM
*EDIT* Proof positive that I should not post 15 minutes after waking up.

MortalC
03-09-2009, 08:11 AM
I'm ♥♥♥♥ing astounded that no major gaming website has contacted Valve or even asked one question about this during a random interview. Thumbs up for journalism!

Agreed, but I do know that a few sites tried to get a comment from Valve earlier when the change happened. But I don’t think they got any response as there hasn’t been any news about it. Seriously Valves lack of comments about this just makes me think of them as more and more arrogant.

Faur
03-09-2009, 08:49 AM
I'm also a bit baffled, surprised, and disappointed at how there has been no change on this issue for so long now.

It's completely unreasonable to charge me more than normal due to the euro conversion, when I live in a country which is not a member of the EU and hence has never used euros.

I used to be a heavy steam user, I have about 60 games in my list. I haven't purchased a single game since they made this change.

Go1den3ye
03-09-2009, 09:56 AM
This is just wrong, and WHY hasent anybody got a awnser out of valve

spawn12345
03-09-2009, 12:26 PM
another proof that valve is ripping off customers through steam.

The new release Drakensang on steam 50€
Drakensang on gamersgate.com 30€

SAME PUBLISHER

Valve is jacking up the prices NOT the publishers NOT the developers

Jorgen
03-09-2009, 12:34 PM
Yes, this is wrong and its just strange. I would think they're losing money this way. I've only bought special weekend deal games that are 75% or 50% off from steam and the rest I've bought for much less in stores.

Take Dead Space for example: Is getting a disc, a box and a manual worth paying LESS THAN HALF the steam price? Umm..yes. :confused:

impar
03-09-2009, 12:58 PM
Greetings!

Probably Steam just wants to save costs with the servers.
Only managed to upgrade the already installed UT3 Sunday morning, Steam was unable to upgrade it during all of Saturday.
And the download speeds of the various upgrade attemptps were typical of the 56k era.

Rhoninthewizard
03-09-2009, 01:02 PM
Greetings!

Probably Steam just wants to save costs with the servers.
Only managed to upgrade the already installed UT3 Sunday morning, Steam was unable to upgrade it during all of Saturday.
And the download speeds of the various upgrade attemptps were typical of the 56k era.
What does this have to do with the topic?

matsa
03-09-2009, 01:26 PM
The prices are mad and we all know this, so why doesn't Valve comment at all? Well, let me throw in my two cents:

A while back one of the developers behind The Witcher posted something along the lines of "We received a message from Valve introducing the new differentiated pricing scheme and were instructed to adjust the prices as we saw fit." (If my 'quote' is wrong, please someone dig up the thread where that was posted).

That message makes perfect sense to me; that way of doing it would give the least hassle for Valve, saving them from gathering new prices for all three regions from every developer/publisher.

Furthermore, not every price is unfair between regions. I noted just the other week, when the Ghost Recon-games were opened for all countries, that the price of the package (which I bought; it was a very good deal)
was almost equal between the regions. How equal? My next paragraph will explain the scope of the difference.

Now I see the prices for this new independent title http://store.steampowered.com/news/2291/ that the prices are very similar. According to my currency NOK, the price ranges from 97 NOK (In Britain), via 106 NOK (for US and others) and finally 116 NOK (for europeans). The latter sum is what I will have to pay here in Norway. Even though the sums differ the prices seem to be adjusted to be as equal as possible.

Why would Valve do this so suddenly? It was speculated earlier, before Ubisoft and EA arrived on the platform, that the developers were obliged by law to refrain from undercutting their own retail publishers by distributing cheaper online. This was hypothesized to be the reason why the large distributors I just mentioned were not present on the platform. The following incidents may or may not coincidenses:

1. Most Ubisoft games have been limited to North America before the new pricing scheme.
2. EA did not even arrive on the platform before the pricing scheme was introduced.
3. (There are probably a few more, but I can't remember anything else right now).

Finally, as for the reason as to why Valve is not commenting I offer the following hypothesis, but first let my clarify:

Further up I have tried to make the case that Valve is _not_ responsible for the prices as they are now, even though it is clear that they are the ones who implemented the new pricing scheme. If this standpoint is not clear to you, please read my arguments again.

Given this, it stands to reason that Valve is not commenting the new prices for the following reason: admitting the prices are too high would be _criticizing_ the publishers on their platform.

Final comment: I've not yet mentioned that Valve themselves have raised their prices. This is true, but are they more unreasonable than the usual prices in Europe/UK? I leave this one for others to check.

spawn12345
03-09-2009, 01:35 PM
Final comment: I've not yet mentioned that Valve themselves have raised their prices. This is true, but are they more unreasonable than the usual prices in Europe/UK? I leave this one for others to check.

Ehh yes games on steam cost from 20-200% more.

hvkasteren
03-09-2009, 01:48 PM
another proof that valve is ripping off customers through steam.

The new release Drakensang on steam 50€
Drakensang on gamersgate.com 30€

SAME PUBLISHER

Valve is jacking up the prices NOT the publishers NOT the developers

Got a nice shock seeing that. €50 compared to 30$. At the current rate that would be 63.18$ compared to 35.70$ (both including the tax rates over here). A nice 30$ too much for me to be even remotely interested in purchasing.

×McGyver×
03-09-2009, 02:01 PM
Drakensang costs 25€ on Amazon Germany (including VAT and shipment)...

If you have a shop and your competition sells at half the price then you really should start talking to your supplier what's wrong. IF you care about your customers / the shop.

matsa
03-09-2009, 03:06 PM
Ehh yes games on steam cost from 20-200% more.

Yeah, you misunderstood what I wrote. I'm fully aware of the price range across Steam (on non-Valve games). Did you read my post at all?

Regarding Drakensang: it makes perfect sense if you agree read my hypothesis. They are not able to undercut retails shops online due to contracts. Why do they then agree to such contracts? Because they can not depend on online sale alone; we're not there yet.

EDIT: The pricing on gamersgate.com only helps my argument; on gamersgate.com I encountered the following: "This title is ONLY available in US, Canada and Mexcio." If it was available worldwide with that, low, price, I would agree that something is fishy but it is _not_!

Again, the independent game Braid has perfectly reasonable prices across the regions. This might be due to them not publishing retail and thus they have no such contracts.

Will no one comment on my arguments instead of just complaining and blaming Valve for "jacking up the prices"?

*VeLeRoN*
03-09-2009, 03:18 PM
It's save to assume that every publisher had to se the price in EUR before Valve could change it in the store, and that every one of them got the letter similar to the one the witcher guys got.

Can't agree more with this though:
They are not able to undercut retails shops online due to contracts. Why do they then agree to such contracts? Because they can not depend on online sale alone; we're not there yet.
75 percent of game players say they prefer a boxed product, and 58 percent had never downloaded a game. (http://www.edge-online.com/news/npds-frazier-consumers-prefer-retail)

On the other hand, if digital sales market is so small, why would they (retail) be afraid of it?

matsa
03-09-2009, 03:28 PM
On the other hand, if digital sales market is so small, why would they (retail) be afraid of it?

Have you ever known anyone to enjoy others cutting into their market? It is specifically because Steam is proving the concept of digital downloads to be such a powerful concept that they are protective.

gombosg
03-09-2009, 03:41 PM
The prices are mad and we all know this, so why doesn't Valve comment at all? Well, let me throw in my two cents:

A while back one of the developers behind The Witcher posted something along the lines of "We received a message from Valve introducing the new differentiated pricing scheme and were instructed to adjust the prices as we saw fit." (If my 'quote' is wrong, please someone dig up the thread where that was posted).

That message makes perfect sense to me; that way of doing it would give the least hassle for Valve, saving them from gathering new prices for all three regions from every developer/publisher.

Furthermore, not every price is unfair between regions. I noted just the other week, when the Ghost Recon-games were opened for all countries, that the price of the package (which I bought; it was a very good deal)
was almost equal between the regions. How equal? My next paragraph will explain the scope of the difference.

Now I see the prices for this new independent title http://store.steampowered.com/news/2291/ that the prices are very similar. According to my currency NOK, the price ranges from 97 NOK (In Britain), via 106 NOK (for US and others) and finally 116 NOK (for europeans). The latter sum is what I will have to pay here in Norway. Even though the sums differ the prices seem to be adjusted to be as equal as possible.

Why would Valve do this so suddenly? It was speculated earlier, before Ubisoft and EA arrived on the platform, that the developers were obliged by law to refrain from undercutting their own retail publishers by distributing cheaper online. This was hypothesized to be the reason why the large distributors I just mentioned were not present on the platform. The following incidents may or may not coincidenses:

1. Most Ubisoft games have been limited to North America before the new pricing scheme.
2. EA did not even arrive on the platform before the pricing scheme was introduced.
3. (There are probably a few more, but I can't remember anything else right now).

Finally, as for the reason as to why Valve is not commenting I offer the following hypothesis, but first let my clarify:

Further up I have tried to make the case that Valve is _not_ responsible for the prices as they are now, even though it is clear that they are the ones who implemented the new pricing scheme. If this standpoint is not clear to you, please read my arguments again.

Given this, it stands to reason that Valve is not commenting the new prices for the following reason: admitting the prices are too high would be _criticizing_ the publishers on their platform.

Final comment: I've not yet mentioned that Valve themselves have raised their prices. This is true, but are they more unreasonable than the usual prices in Europe/UK? I leave this one for others to check.
Let's see Valve game prices: (a bit rounded prices)
Orange Box - €20 boxed, €30 Steam
HL2 - €12 boxed, €20 Steam
CS: S - €23 boxed, €20 Steam (!)

And a random game from the Steam Store homepage:
Spore - €33 Boxed, €50 Steam

And these are Hungarian prices, they *might* be higher than other prices.
I've never bought a game more expensive than €15. Usually I buy them for €8-10 ($10 before this recession thing or what)

matsa
03-09-2009, 03:49 PM
Let's see Valve game prices: (a bit rounded prices)
Orange Box - €20 boxed, €30 Steam
HL2 - €12 boxed, €20 Steam
CS: S - €23 boxed, €20 Steam (!)

And a random game from the Steam Store homepage:
Spore - €33 Boxed, €50 Steam

And these are Hungarian prices, they *might* be higher than other prices.

I was not disputing that prices on non-Valve games are outrageous; I was asking whether Valve's price raises are _more_ outrageous than that others. The same argument stands for Valve as for all the others. Their contracts with actual retail publishers (usually EA, if I recall correctly) will also prohibit them from undercutting the retailers online. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when all prices were in US dollars: were not Valve's online prices more expensive in North America? It was incredibly cheap for the rest of the world as the dollar plummeted, but not particularily cheap in North American standards. When the new pricing scheme was introduced, nothing happened to North American prices; think about that! So the the pricing scheme only allows publishers to follow the same modus operandi in other regions of the world, despicable as it is, but that's capitalism for you.

Assuming I am correct in this regard, my arguments still stand.

TrAnWhiZ
03-09-2009, 04:18 PM
Wow the OP got banned, for what? for this post, because the admin "won't go into the reasons why", such a shame you just ban the person for fighting to his and others rights, ignoring every fact and evidence that he provided.

The reason for VALVe's 1$ = 1€ is unknown, they rather ban people that try to find out why, and not give answer an answer that makes sense and not BS.

nautsch
03-09-2009, 04:20 PM
Assuming I am correct in this regard, ...

Let's do that. Why do you think Valve has said NOTHING about this?

I can imagine two (maybe three) reasons:

1. Your argument is wrong.
2. Valve is ashamed of these tactics, which totally conflict with worldwide trade and sanity.
(3. Valve is plain stupid. .. i don't think so.)

Furthermore, if all prices are were in USD and so the games would be unbelievable cheap for everyone else on the world, qhy would Valve close this obvious money stream? They don't care in what currency they get their money.

Ok. i stop here.

I think somethings funny. Maybe Valve really signed some contracts, which bind them to this ... stupidity. Maybe with EA. EA is known for stupid things they do to their customers.

*VeLeRoN*
03-09-2009, 04:21 PM
Wow the OP got banned, for what? for this post, because the admin "won't go into the reasons why", such a shame you just ban the person for fighting to his and others rights
No, he was not banned for that.


Their contracts with actual retail publishers (usually EA, if I recall correctly) will also prohibit them from undercutting the retailers online.
Second time you say this, what's your source? I've never seen a countract between a developer and the publisher.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when all prices were in US dollars: were not Valve's online prices more expensive in North America? It was incredibly cheap for the rest of the world as the dollar plummeted, but not particularily cheap in North American standards.
Yes, you are wrong here, no doubts.

matsa
03-09-2009, 04:26 PM
I found the following comments from the creator of Braid that supports my assumption that developers/publishers are the _real_ price deciders:

The creator of Braid initially said the following before going with Steam:

"When it comes to a publisher like Steam charging different amounts in Euros vs Dollars, that is something I have no control over."

Then it became:

"If Valve gives me the choice to offer the game at the equivalent price in Europe as it is in the US, then I absolutely will do that. I’ll tell you that so far, my interactions with Valve don’t lead me to believe they are going to be very flexible on pricing, but maybe this is a separate issue."

I'll quote myself and say:

"Now I see the prices for this new independent title http://store.steampowered.com/news/2291/ that the prices are very similar. According to my currency NOK, the price ranges from 97 NOK (In Britain), via 106 NOK (for US and others) and finally 116 NOK (for europeans). The latter sum is what I will have to pay here in Norway. Even though the sums differ the prices seem to be adjusted to be as equal as possible."

So, it is obvious that publishers/developers _DO_ get to decide their price, as I would think most of you agree is the right thing. So can people please stop bashing Valve for jacking up the price when it's actually EA/Ubisoft/etc that's really to blame?

matsa
03-09-2009, 04:32 PM
No, he was not banned for that.



Second time you say this, what's your source? I've never seen a countract between a developer and the publisher.


Yes, you are wrong here, no doubts.

Look, I never said I had a source. I made it perfectly clear that I was speculating and assuming. Of course I've never seen such a contract; then I would have stated that I have. Why do you attack my arguments instead of coming up with another answer to this puzzle?

And I am wrong regarding the North American prices? "No doubts." Well, I do doubt it, which is why I suggested it. I'll repeat what I said and if it's wrong you should be able to come up with examples.
1. Did the US prices increase when the new pricing scheme arrived?
2. How were the US prices, in North America, comparing to retail?

If you believe that answers are "yes" and "cheaper than retail", then prove that. If you can't, can you not try to see the logic in my argumentation?

I can try one example for myself:

I bought The Orange Box for 30$ back when it released. The price is still 30$ in the US.
Amazon.com still sells it as 30$ (well, it's a couple of dollars less right now due to some deal). For this example the answer is "no" and "equal or more expensive than retail".

Karma_Police
03-09-2009, 05:13 PM
I found the following comments from the creator of Braid that supports my assumption that developers/publishers are the _real_ price deciders:

The creator of Braid initially said the following before going with Steam:

"When it comes to a publisher like Steam charging different amounts in Euros vs Dollars, that is something I have no control over."

Then it became:

"If Valve gives me the choice to offer the game at the equivalent price in Europe as it is in the US, then I absolutely will do that. I’ll tell you that so far, my interactions with Valve don’t lead me to believe they are going to be very flexible on pricing, but maybe this is a separate issue."

(cut the rest :) )


Are you reading the quotes the same way we are? I'm not saying that developers/publishers don't decide the prices (as I'm not part of that industry, I do not know) but his quote is: "IF Valve gives me the choice to offer the game at the equivalent price in Europe as it is in the US, then I absolutely will do that."

See that IF? It is there. The quote does not start with "Valve gives me the choice", it starts with "If Valve gives me the choice".

Then there's this part: "my interactions with Valve don’t lead me to believe they are going to be very flexible on pricing, but maybe this is a separate issue."

See, here he tells us that he believes Valve won't let him be very flexible when choosing a price. So, again we have an argument for Valve setting the prices.


Now, again, I suspect developers/publishers have more power deciding the prices than most people blaming Valve want to admit (but then again, I can be wrong), but your quote certainly does not back this up. If anything, it just makes your argument weaker.

impar
03-09-2009, 06:15 PM
Greetings!
What does this have to do with the topic?
The less games are bought, the less traffic their servers need to serve.

SynTerro
03-09-2009, 06:39 PM
Greetings!

The less games are bought, the less traffic their servers need to serve.

If less games are bought, they make less money. Your argument is invalid.

MortalC
03-09-2009, 06:44 PM
@ matsa: No offence but your arguments are wrong on several points, and if you read trough some of the 300 pages before this you will also see that many of your points have already been proven wrong.

1. Valve where the ones that decided to add VAT in the total price instead of adding VAT at the end of the purchase as before. This means that countries such as Norway that don’t have VAT on digital imported downloads now pays a lot more even though they shouldn’t. Like said earlier in this tread VAT changes from country to country so simply adding one VAT price on all of Europe doesn’t work (Why do you think the UK got there own store?). This is only Valve and no one else’s fault.

2. If Valve where forced like you claim bye Ubisoft/EA to change the price, Valve where the ones that had to accept it. And you shouldn’t overestimate Ubi/EA influence on this matter.

3. If publishers are so afraid to undercut retail why can other DD services offer the same games for half the price?

4. Valves own games are overpriced, aren’t Valve capable to control the price on there own products trough there own platform? And just for the record Gabe Newell have said that revenue from Valves own games on Steam goes straight to Valve.

5. Do you read the post from the Braid developer the same way as the rest of us do?

impar
03-10-2009, 03:16 AM
Greetings!
If less games are bought, they make less money. Your argument is invalid.
The price change happened three months ago, if Steam wanted to correct it, they would have done that by now.
If they have not, its because they are happy with the current pricing scheme and dont mind the less sales and server traffic.

matsa
03-10-2009, 03:52 AM
Cut the rest


Why did you "cut the rest"?? What you cut was my reason for the conclusion: "Available for $14.99 (12.99 EUR, 9.99 Pounds Sterling)" This price is reasonable and differentiated like it should be and means that he _was_ able to decide the price. Of course I read his postings and felt disheartened but again: in the end he _was_ able to decide the price. That was my whole point. Next time you try to undercut an argument; don't remove the crux of it before quoting it; it's rude and pointless.

MortalC:

1. Yes, I will give you that one. The VAT-thing is completely unreasonable and clearly Valve's decision.
2. My claim was never that Ubisoft/EA forced Valve to raise the prices, but rather that Ubisoft/EA would not release their games in Europe before they could enforce "european" prices. I still don't think it's coincidence that EA arrived on the platform shortly after the new pricing scheme was introduced.
3. I have no experience with other DD services, so given that what you say is true, it does go against my argument.
4. You're not saying anything new here; you've misunderstood my argument, and I won't repeat myself a third time.
5. See what I wrote in the top of the quote. Reading the quotes initially gave me the impression that the prices would be unjust because he would have no power over them, but look for yourself. The prices are perfectly just!

Heh. Read the other 300 pages for something reasonable? From what I have read they seem to contain 99% complaints and price comparisons; not very relevant for what I wanted to discuss.

Well, at least MortalC managed to illuminate me on a few points. Let the mayhem continue without me.

I'll rather my spend time wishing that I'll wake up some day and this outrageous prices were just a bad dream... :p

Wasser
03-10-2009, 06:12 AM
2. My claim was never that Ubisoft/EA forced Valve to raise the prices, but rather that Ubisoft/EA would not release their games in Europe before they could enforce "european" prices. I still don't think it's coincidence that EA arrived on the platform shortly after the new pricing scheme was introduced.
Regional pricing existed on Steam well before localised currency was implemented.

matsa
03-10-2009, 06:14 AM
Ah, thank you for pointing that out. Oh well, it seems I do not understand thing after all. It was worth a shot.

SynTerro
03-10-2009, 06:55 AM
Greetings!

The price change happened three months ago, if Steam wanted to correct it, they would have done that by now.
If they have not, its because they are happy with the current pricing scheme and dont mind the less sales and server traffic.

But still if they want to change things to make less money is a weird idea, don't you think?

impar
03-10-2009, 07:13 AM
Greetings!
But still if they want to change things to make less money is a weird idea, don't you think?It is.
But I and many others stopped buying at Steam (ok, did buy the "X-COM Terror from the Deep" game) so Steam is selling less now than it was before the € price introduction.
If they havent corrected the issue, it can only be because the management is happy with the "less money".

Tibo
03-10-2009, 09:43 AM
Regional pricing existed on Steam well before localised currency was implemented.
True but they surely prefer to get some euro in their european HQ. There's the diff.
And the man is right. Ubisoft and EA did wait that milestone to release WW on steam.

MortalC
03-10-2009, 09:55 AM
@ matsa. I guess that you at least see some of my points but I still think that you don’t completely understand my arguments.

2. My claim was never that Ubisoft/EA forced Valve to raise the prices, but rather that Ubisoft/EA would not release their games in Europe before they could enforce "european" prices. I still don't think it's coincidence that EA arrived on the platform shortly after the new pricing scheme was introduced.

But there was regional pricing long before this happened.

3. I have no experience with other DD services, so given that what you say is true, it does go against my argument.

I can take an example. Dead Space on Steam is 45 Euros (http://store.steampowered.com/app/17470/). Dead Space on Direct2Drive UK site is 20 Pounds (http://www.direct2drive.co.uk/1/6950/product/Buy-Dead-Space-UK-Download)witch is equal to about 22 Euros. That is a 23 Euro difference for the same game.

4. You're not saying anything new here; you've misunderstood my argument, and I won't repeat myself a third time.

If you have to repeat yourself several times that might be because people don’t understand your point/argument :-)

5. See what I wrote in the top of the quote. Reading the quotes initially gave me the impression that the prices would be unjust because he would have no power over them, but look for yourself. The prices are perfectly just!

The prices are not just, and like he said "If Valve gives me the choice to offer the game at the equivalent price in Europe as it is in the US, then I absolutely will do that.”
If Valve… That means that he doesn’t control this just as the quote above that one said.

*VeLeRoN*
03-10-2009, 09:55 AM
I can try one example for myself:

I bought The Orange Box for 30$ back when it released. The price is still 30$ in the US.
Amazon.com still sells it as 30$ (well, it's a couple of dollars less right now due to some deal). For this example the answer is "no" and "equal or more expensive than retail".
Hmm. I pre-purchased TOB for $45 (with 10% discount). Where did you buy it for $30? Most certainly not on steam.

Originally Posted by matsa
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when all prices were in US dollars:
[1] were not Valve's online prices more expensive in North America?
[2] It was incredibly cheap for the rest of the world as the dollar plummeted, but not particularily cheap in North American standards.
[1] US prices haven't changed, they stayed as they were, so it's irrelevant. If you really want to compare, thought it's pointless, ok: TOB $50 in NA and the same $50 in europe.
[2] No. For some regions games were cheaper (like for UK when 1 gbp used to be 2 usd) than for some other regions. They have never been incredibly cheap for anyone.

spawn12345
03-10-2009, 01:21 PM
EDIT: The pricing on gamersgate.com only helps my argument; on gamersgate.com I encountered the following: "This title is ONLY available in US, Canada and Mexcio." If it was available worldwide with that, low, price, I would agree that something is fishy but it is _not_!


it IS avalable worlwide for that price on gamersgate!!
If you are in NA then you will se the NA version that can only be purchased in NA. If you are in EU you will see that EU version for 30€ like I see it! And I can buy it because I have bought it there for 30€

SOMETHING IS FISHY AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN WITH STEAM!

Do you want to see my recipe from them? :rolleyes:

Do you want links to all other digital stores that sell the same games for MUCH less than steam? ALL digital stores. Not one, ALL!

spawn12345
03-10-2009, 01:25 PM
It's save to assume that every publisher had to se the price in EUR before Valve could change it in the store, and that every one of them got the letter similar to the one the witcher guys got.

Can't agree more with this though:

75 percent of game players say they prefer a boxed product, and 58 percent had never downloaded a game. (http://www.edge-online.com/news/npds-frazier-consumers-prefer-retail)

On the other hand, if digital sales market is so small, why would they (retail) be afraid of it?

pure BS.
All other digital stores are cheaper. Its just steam

cvi
03-10-2009, 04:08 PM
Got a nice shock seeing that. €50 compared to 30$. At the current rate that would be 63.18$ compared to 35.70$ (both including the tax rates over here). A nice 30$ too much for me to be even remotely interested in purchasing.

Also, consider that in Germany one seems to be able to buy the game (Drakensang) for €29.99. In the UK it goes at £29.99.

The whole 1€=1$ deal is bad, but this is insulting.

Wulfklaue
03-10-2009, 04:39 PM
pure BS.
All other digital stores are cheaper. Its just steam

All is not 100% correct, but its extreme rare to find a game thats more expensive then Steam on the other Digital Stores.

At worst, the price can be similar. Most off the time, they are cheaper, to a lot cheaper.

Those digital services have noticed this recent price problem with Steam, and seem to be actively targeting the unhappy Steam shoppers.

Remember people, we are talking regular prices. The same can be seen with some discounts.

Steam discounts are for a weekend at best. While those other shops can offer the discounts for weeks on end. And thats not taking in account, that from the 52 weeks, maybe 40 ( at best? ) are discount weekends. From those 40, about 10 are pure Valve owned games ( HL/CS/TF2/... ).

Then comes the problem with price decreases.

It does not take a rocket scientists to look at the "Price reductions and sales!" on this same board, and see how the US prices drop faster, and a lot more then any EU prices.

Then there is the lack off any PR at all. By my account, several dozen people in this thread alone have mailed Valve developers that we know off. So, its not like our disgust at the situation does not reach Valve. On the contrary, the moderation going on here ( banning off members for posting to some websites that are less then positive about the discrimination, removing information regarding this filtering, and more ), seems to be rather actively. The first post in this thread is a constant reminder. Banning is a decision thats none reversible i may add ( as there is no appeal possible ).

But, lets return to the PR aspect. Valve in Europe is already considered a joke by many people. If your post public know figurehead gives a speech detailing how games are to expensive, yet, there own company increases the prices off said games. We can say that the response to that was less then stellar.

Even those that do not participate in this thread or even read this forum, already noticed the price increases. So, even without any large publishing, or mouth to mouth, there pricing strategy is having a effect.


Unless you have a brand name, that can be associated with your goods, its hard to charge a large price. Take any brand name, lets take Sony. They are taking a huge loss because off cheaper brands that off the same or more.

Those other Digital Services are growing there brand, while Valve / Steam, as we see with this thread, groups, websites is taking a negative beating.

Even its service these days is coming more & more into question, as the games seem to be lately or never patched. Critical patches get ignored, as a community is screaming for them to allow there multi play or single player to work. And the ball is trow a lot off times at the developers, even when they can show that they did everything possible to provide the patches to Valve. This automatically creates a invalidation to there claims, so even the few times it can not be considered there own fault, those other incidents invalidated that claim.

So, the branding is going down ( with several groups off customers ).

We can even say that Valves actions seem foolish, and self destructive, during this economic crisis, with people heaving less to spend on luxuries. Paying off your home mortgages seems to prioritize people's plans, unlike paying 49€ for a game ( what they can buy in a store for 29€ ).

The question we all like to know, who the person was, thats so daft to create this pricing problem. It are not the people from marketing, as for them this must be a nightmare. The sales people won't be happy. They might be at first, but as customers growed drops, and sales go down, that attitude will chance swiftly. The programmers? What do they care about pricing. At best they might get annoyed with those pesky EU customers mailing them, but its not like they get a nice bonus from the EU sales.

So, who is responsible? The higher ups? A question we will never see answered. Maybe some over eager manager, that convinced the bosses that its a good move, and before the dust settles, the sales drop, he's out off the door with his bonus ( like we see with the bank crisis, and other branches ).

Whoever its "brilliant" idea it was, the PR problem this creates will not go away. And it might even become a legal problem in the EU.

With all this said and done, the chance that EA, and co, all desired on the same time-frame to push Valve into increases the prices, is close to impossible.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth...

gunn0r
03-10-2009, 05:28 PM
well said.

Kub666
03-11-2009, 02:22 AM
Then there is the lack off any PR at all. By my account, several dozen people in this thread alone have mailed Valve developers that we know off. So, its not like our disgust at the situation does not reach Valve. On the contrary, the moderation going on here ( banning off members for posting to some websites that are less then positive about the discrimination, removing information regarding this filtering, and more ), seems to be rather actively. The first post in this thread is a constant reminder. Banning is a decision thats none reversible i may add ( as there is no appeal possible ).

This is probably the worst thing they did regarding the pricing issue. Instead of replying they're just lurking around this thread, banning people and deleting ♥♥♥♥load of posts. This behaviour itself should give us answer what Valve thinks about their paying customers from Europe.

Great post, by the way.

stalepriest
03-11-2009, 03:06 AM
I know this has probably been touched upon already, but it was always my impression that by offering games as a download would cut down on a lot of cost's and that those savings are then reflected in a lower sale price. So why are the prices of games on Steam now equal to or greater than in shops?

tkossak
03-11-2009, 03:31 AM
why are the prices of games on Steam now equal to or greater than in shops?
It's all about money, Valve wants to be rich too :). But the prices of course aren't making more customers for them, rather the opposite - customers are going away, so i don't think they will achieve their goal. Better for retail shops.

dargor721
03-11-2009, 04:48 AM
Before you people start flaming and calling me names I have some news about this whole situation.

A few days ago I had to do a clean reinstall of windows which also meant a clean install of steam and when all was done I tried to play a game and under the launch button i noticed a small message that the user agreement details have changed and that by launching the game I agree with said user agreement. I decided to read the user agreement (usually I just accept by default and that's it) and have found out a few small details that influence this matter, namely:

- "YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE STEAM SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT."

-"Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve."

-"You understand that neither this Agreement nor the terms associated with a particular Subscription entitles you to future updates, new versions or other enhancements of the Steam Software associated with a particular Subscription although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion." ---(about game patches that are not released on time on steam )

It also says there (but i don't have the time to look for it at this point in time) that valve may change the terms included in the steam subscriber agreement at any time post it online and by not terminating your account within 15 days of the time the new rules are posted you automaticly agree with the changes (same with prices).

All these "changes" are dated back to 2005 (so yeah a lot of time before the price change). Now although I am upset by the recent price changes the bottom line is complaining on the forums will not help, as well as taking other action since when you install steam you agree to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, everytime you buy a game you agree to it again, everytime you play a game you agree to it as well and as per your agreement the only thing you can do if you don't agree to what is going on on steam your sole method of solving the problem is to terminate your account.

dargor721
03-11-2009, 04:49 AM
sorry for double post but it seems my conection is weird and I accidentaly clicked two times on post reply

Wulfklaue
03-11-2009, 05:10 AM
All these "changes" are dated back to 2005 (so yeah a lot of time before the price change). Now although I am upset by the recent price changes the bottom line is complaining on the forums will not help, as well as taking other action since when you install steam you agree to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, everytime you buy a game you agree to it again, everytime you play a game you agree to it as well and as per your agreement the only thing you can do if you don't agree to what is going on on steam your sole method of solving the problem is to terminate your account.

This has been discussed to dead already.

The only thing that maters is the law or the intent off the law.

Valve can write in the EULA that you need to sacrifice a goat every full moon, does not mean you need to follow that.

In event of a conflict, Law > EULA. Period.

Valve thinks they are clever by chancing the terms to subscription, but if this is ever challenged in court, they have no chance at all. If all you lose is 20 to 50€ if valve ever closes a account, nobody is going to be go to court, but people do have hundreds off games on there accounts, making it a few thousands euro's or more worth. In effect, People going to courts is a lot easier, and with a high chance off being spoken out negatively for Valve. ;)

Why do you think that we never hear about gaming accounts getting banned ( forum accounts, sure, they can do that without any problem, as they don't block people to there payed goods ).

Even Valve knows its a can off worms they don't want to see open.

Read up on this will you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Applies directly to the EULA that Valve has in effect. So, don't bother with those EULA's ( who even bothers to read them :p ).

zugu
03-11-2009, 07:43 AM
When's the European Commission supposed to answer? As far as I remember they said they'll have an answer in a month, hasn't it been more than one month since they first answered?

judoman_chop
03-11-2009, 07:57 AM
Australian's pay $100 or more for new release games. We are used to getting rooted for new release titles. COD4 $110 for PS2/Box, $90 for PC. $50US Is about $70-80AUD for us, our games are just outrageous. Stop complaining, buy from the shelf, they will get the hint when their sales drop horrendously.

SynTerro
03-11-2009, 08:27 AM
Australian's pay $100 or more for new release games. We are used to getting rooted for new release titles. COD4 $110 for PS2/Box, $90 for PC. $50US Is about $70-80AUD for us, our games are just outrageous. Stop complaining, buy from the shelf, they will get the hint when their sales drop horrendously.
Already stopped buying, but I'm not going to stop complaining.

Do you pay 100$ in AUD or USD? You should be clearer about that.

edit: Checked it myself.
If the country code AU(AS is another possibility) is correct, new games are priced 59,99$ USD in Australia. A little cheaper than Europe which currently pay 63,86$ USD for new games like Empire Total War, FEAR2, and Dawn of War 2.

But at leasst your prices drops faster down under.
Saints Row 2 39,99$ USD in AU, 63,86$ USD in EU.
Mass Effect 29,99$ USD in AU, 57,48$ USD in EU.
Need for Speed Undercover 39,99 USD in AU, 63,86$ USD in EU.

..and some new games are reasonable in Australia also
H.A.W.X 49,99$ USD in AU, 63,86$ USD in EU.

mchufnagel
03-11-2009, 08:30 AM
This has been discussed to dead already.

The only thing that maters is the law or the intent off the law.

Valve can write in the EULA that you need to sacrifice a goat every full moon, does not mean you need to follow that.

In event of a conflict, Law > EULA. Period.

Valve thinks they are clever by chancing the terms to subscription, but if this is ever challenged in court, they have no chance at all. If all you lose is 20 to 50€ if valve ever closes a account, nobody is going to be go to court, but people do have hundreds off games on there accounts, making it a few thousands euro's or more worth. In effect, People going to courts is a lot easier, and with a high chance off being spoken out negatively for Valve. ;)

Why do you think that we never hear about gaming accounts getting banned ( forum accounts, sure, they can do that without any problem, as they don't block people to there payed goods ).

Even Valve knows its a can off worms they don't want to see open.

Read up on this will you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Applies directly to the EULA that Valve has in effect. So, don't bother with those EULA's ( who even bothers to read them :p ).

I'm willing to bet that most Steam accounts only have a game or two on them. So sadly, unless it's a "class action" type of lawsuit, it wouldn't be economically justified to sue Valve (and their lawyers know it).

zugu
03-11-2009, 09:02 AM
OK, so we complained to the European Commission about Valve not allowing us to buy from the UK store. I think we're wrong, and here's why:

whereas it means that consumers should be able to have access to the goods and services of another Member State on the same terms as the population of that State;

Now think about it. What does a UK citizen need in order to buy from Steam?

- a UK credit card
- a PC that's physically in UK

I am a Romanian citizen. How is Valve going to allow me to buy games on Steam at UK prices? That's simple:

- I open a bank account in UK
- I use a PC located in UK

Same terms.

I'm afraid the European Commission is going to say Valve's actions are legit.

lackoo
03-11-2009, 09:13 AM
@ Wulfklaue
Well said.
+ reputation

edgari0kas
03-11-2009, 09:15 AM
what for he got banned :confused: it is democracy and we can have our opinions! :mad:

Totally disgraceful by steam. you act like a communist ! shame on you

also i totally agree with that person

Waper
03-11-2009, 09:24 AM
Totally disgraceful by steam. you act like a communist ! shame on you


Haha, now that's a troll if I've ever seen one.

zugu
03-11-2009, 09:53 AM
Mods, please delete this post.

Yammo
03-11-2009, 10:01 AM
It's all about money, Valve wants to be rich too :). But the prices of course aren't making more customers for them, rather the opposite - customers are going away, so i don't think they will achieve their goal. Better for retail shops.


First let me say... it's amazing this thread still lives... and still keeps somewhat "on-topic". Even more amazing that there hasn't been any change in Steam pricing.

To my point:
I don't think I'm at all alone in !_actively_! searching for games elsewhere then through steam. But I don't think this quite covers it.

The way Steam has handled this, (ie by ignoring), has made me ever more reluctant to even buy a game that requires steam. Like with "Empire - Total War" which I am still pondering weather to buy at all, eventhough I love the game. But even if I do buy the game... It highlights what effect this matter has had on my view on Steam over all. I'm even reluctant to touch Steam with the preverbial 10-ft pole...

Kingston
03-11-2009, 12:29 PM
Bought Empire: Total War from Amazon.co.uk for £30. Which is certainly less than 50e, plus I got real DVDS, a box and manual.

No reason to buy off Steam.

nautsch
03-11-2009, 12:52 PM
OK, so we complained to the European Commission about Valve not allowing us to buy from the UK store. I think we're wrong, and here's why:

whereas it means that consumers should be able to have access to the goods and services of another Member State on the same terms as the population of that State;

Now think about it. What does a UK citizen need in order to buy from Steam?

- a UK credit card
- a PC that's physically in UK

I am a Romanian citizen. How is Valve going to allow me to buy games on Steam at UK prices? That's simple:

- I open a bank account in UK
- I use a PC located in UK

Same terms.

I'm afraid the European Commission is going to say Valve's actions are legit.

The same terms means, that you have the RIGHT to buy a game under the same ... terms. You have the RIGHT to buy it for the same price, EULA and whatnot. I think Valve does everything except for the price and the sole ability to buy there.

The same terms, does not mean, that YOU have to fulfill anything. The terms that are mentioned are the terms for the Customer.

The Bank account and location of the pc are not the mentioned terms.

Wulfklaue
03-11-2009, 07:37 PM
The Bank account and location of the pc are not the mentioned terms.

EULA terms have not effect.

The free trade off goods / services between country's in the EU, is the law.

A summery:

* The free movement of goods;
* The free movement of persons (and citizenship), including free movement of workers, and freedom of establishment;
* The free movement of services;
* The free movement of capital.


I think a week or two ago the EU commission declaimed they where going to stricter enforce those rules, as some company's are openly preventing customers from gaining goods / services from other country's.

Valve is not the only one that does this. I think that the Amazone UK store has the same problem, as they refuse to ship electronics or something like that. Its been a while when i last checked. May have changed...

In effect, if every company can just say: "You can only buy with a UK address, and a UK account, and a UK ...". There goes the free trade off goods.

Of course, it does not prevent company's from trying. Just like with most thing in the EULA, those company's know that it takes time to push the wheels of bureaucracy. And that very few customer will take legal actions them selfs ( more so when the amounts vs time / money invested is to small ). And even if a customer does sue, it will 99% off the time end with a nice big settlement, with some none discloser contract.

A other problem with Valve is, they are in fact a US company, with the matching attitude toward the old continent.

Why comply with some rules, and not the others. Just like most company's, its more "what you can get away with". Originally there was no! tax for customers buying games on Steam ( in dollars at the time ).

The tax was added on a later date, more specifically because a law was approved in the EU, charging ( at that time ) for services outside the EU, to be 17%. Thats why WOW players, or any mmorpg players also get nice taxes. For a part that was understandable, as all it took was any company to set up office outside the EU, and sell there products targeted at EU citizens for 16 to 21% cheaper.

Very few people complained about it, because with the increasing strength off the Euro vs the Dollar, this was compensated.

But, like with this situation, its again, what they "can get away with". If a official warning is send to Valve from the EU, regarding the UK store, you will quickly be able to buy there.

There are a lot of things that we can considered market protectionism, and even monopoly forming going on, but most company's know it takes years, up to dozen of years for a resolution to anything they did. And at best, the price they pay, is little to none ( compared to the amount they gained extra from this protectionism ).

One can say this is exactly what Valve is doing. They can't keep it up forever, it might actually hurt them more in the long term with customer losses ( but thats harder to calculate then the short term extra profit ).

For the people reading this, who have never worked in a business environment. Its a wolf vs sheep environment. If you are not the wolf, you are the sheep. Thats how they can justify there actions. If the customers are stupid to fall for it, there own fault. People who belief in the fairy story "The customer is king", have a rude awakening in this world.

All they care about is your wallet. Very few "big" company's do not have that mentality. The bigger a company becomes, the more vultures gather, looking for a quick buck, a quick rise to the top, at the expensive off others. If this means screwing the customers, so be it. What was the deal with Midway(?) again? Company sold for 100.000$, but the members off the board get x miljoen $ ( was it 30? ) ... there have been several off those story's lately with massive enrichments. Or trying to use there EU parts ( that actually do well ), to cover up the problems in the US mother/sister company.

Valve is just one company, like all the others. It might just be that the US sales are a lot worse, and they are trying to keep there profit margin up with overcharging the EU customers, while keeping the US prices low, to not loss to many customers there.

We can keep speculating all we want, but as long as Gabe, or a other employees give no format statement ...

To me, it does not mater. The only game for the last 3 months that i got from Steam has been a 4 euro game. The same amount of months, the year before was closer to 140 euro. So, a few people's action may not hurt at first, but i'm willing to bet, after a year or so, they suddenly are going to drop the prices again, when the realize that to many customers go to Direct2Drive, gamersgate, metaboli, gamertab, impulse, etc. Its not like there is less competition. Whats missing is a way to centralize all those services / games you buy. The next step? ;)

tragikos
03-12-2009, 04:04 AM
Australian's pay $100 or more for new release games. We are used to getting rooted for new release titles. COD4 $110 for PS2/Box, $90 for PC. $50US Is about $70-80AUD for us, our games are just outrageous. Stop complaining, buy from the shelf, they will get the hint when their sales drop horrendously.

1 Australian dollar = 0.504090378 Euros = 0.647 U.S. dollars
1.98377125 Australian dollars = 1 Euro = 1.2835 U.S. dollars
1.54559505 Australian dollars = 0.779119595 Euros = 1 U.S. dollar

That means your game prices are about the same as in Europe. Instead of Europeans stop complaining, I guess Australians should start complaining too :)

Wulfklaue
03-12-2009, 04:32 AM
1 Australian dollar = 0.504090378 Euros = 0.647 U.S. dollars
1.98377125 Australian dollars = 1 Euro = 1.2835 U.S. dollars
1.54559505 Australian dollars = 0.779119595 Euros = 1 U.S. dollar

That means your game prices are about the same as in Europe. Instead of Europeans stop complaining, I guess Australians should start complaining too :)

Of course. If the peoples income are simulate to the EU/US income, then there is no reason to ask inflated prices in Australia.

wontolla
03-12-2009, 05:06 AM
Wulfklaue you're wrong I've been buying at Amazon UK (or com) for years from different countries, the only problem is about marketplace items not shipped to your country (seller's choice) but I'd buyed Empire total war special forces edito for 45 € shipment included.

Beldin
03-12-2009, 05:18 AM
I live in Sweden and have checked some prices, the biggest difference is for Cod4 atm :(

Cod4 @ Swe 21€ (about 249SEK)
Cod4 @ Steam 49.99€ (about 574SEK)
that's what 29€ (339SEK) difference ?
and you can't add Cod4 to your steam.

But the even more weird thing is Left 4 Dead a game valve made themselves:

Left 4 Dead @ Swe 38,23€ (@ Steam 44.99€)

if i check most new games i get about 6€+ difference... is it really that much more expensive to NOT print up boxes/manuals/cds and only let people download the game than it is for a Swedish shop to pay shipping + VAT + shopfees ?

Lower the prices on steam and i'd gladly do my game shopping at Steam!

SynTerro
03-12-2009, 08:15 AM
I live in Sweden and have checked some prices, the biggest difference is for Cod4 atm :(

Cod4 @ Swe 21€ (about 249SEK)
Cod4 @ Steam 49.99€ (about 574SEK)
that's what 29€ (339SEK) difference ?
and you can't add Cod4 to your steam.

But the even more weird thing is Left 4 Dead a game valve made themselves:

Left 4 Dead @ Swe 38,23€ (@ Steam 44.99€)

if i check most new games i get about 6€+ difference... is it really that much more expensive to NOT print up boxes/manuals/cds and only let people download the game than it is for a Swedish shop to pay shipping + VAT + shopfees ?

Lower the prices on steam and i'd gladly do my game shopping at Steam!

Is'nt the SEK really bad ATM?

Alienchild
03-12-2009, 08:48 AM
The problem I believe isn't that Steam is competing with other download stores. When it comes to that, the Steam features beats all others hands down in my opinion. The problem is that Steam is competing with piracy.

I'm not saying that us who actually pay for our games will turn to piracy, but I'm saying it will be a lot harder to preach the "buy our games" to the pirates when it is as expensive as it is now.

Near Elite
03-12-2009, 09:54 AM
Is'nt the SEK really bad ATM?

Nah. It's the other currencies that are too expensive.

Grizzler
03-12-2009, 02:41 PM
Has any media people/major gaming sites tried contacting Valve for an interview on this matter? I would hope someone would soon, maybe they would actually bother answering a few questions..

SourceForce
03-12-2009, 02:54 PM
Arrrghh...thank God someone of Europe made a thread for all the Europeans that sell too much compared to other peoples with an other currency!

Long story short: I wanted to buy UT3...well, I WANTED. Till I saw, that in USA the game costs 11.99 USD at the moment. As a European, Steam asks for 11.99 Euros. That's a 1:1 rate...

BUT the current exchange rate of USD : Euro is 1.29 : 1!!!!

That means, the real value Europeans would have to pay for UT3 is about 9.3 Euros, instead of the 11.99 (without taxes!) Euros which Steam wants us to pay - that's fraud... :mad:

Near Elite
03-12-2009, 03:18 PM
Burnout Paradise, US: $39.99
Burnout Paradise, EU: 39.99€

Well done! Keep it up :rolleyes:

EDIT: wait, it's actually 0.18€ cheaper than on cdon.com...

Nice :)

Now now EA, go ahead and lower the prices of your other games by 10-20€. Go ahead, don't be shy!

Sasquatchsliper
03-12-2009, 04:32 PM
Have fun with your good old games and stop buying new games for a few months ! :D

TreeRat
03-12-2009, 05:02 PM
I am really surprised Valve hasnt got the forum mods to delete this thread. (I dont think they should)

Its just weird that this is one of few threads that contain free speech and is still around

cvetomirconev
03-12-2009, 05:10 PM
They have no choice, but to keep the thread here. It says "we listen to you, but we're not ready to talk yet."

Plus, this kind of concentrates the negativity in one spot and allows them to keep some control over it.

strandedPL
03-12-2009, 05:11 PM
Another fail from EA. This game is 60% cheaper in my area.

MortalC
03-12-2009, 05:13 PM
Yeah the EA pricing trough steam is extremely high.

klaymen_sk
03-12-2009, 05:14 PM
TreeRat: they know that deleting this thread will enrage people even more.
Free speech here? Mods are banning people (look at the OP for example) or editing and censoring people's posts containing links to sites showing that we, Europeans, are being totally ripped off by Valv€....what a freedom.

*VeLeRoN*
03-12-2009, 05:26 PM
Free speech here? Mods are banning people (look at the OP for example) or editing and censoring people's posts containing links to sites showing that we, Europeans, are being totally ripped off by Valv€....what a freedom.

The only thing which will get you banned here is violating forums' rules.

Not that it's relevant to the topic, but since you mention it - free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want and wherever you want it.

klaymen_sk
03-12-2009, 05:32 PM
Posting links to sites comparing prices on Steam for EU, US and GB customers is prohibited? Wow. Just wow. And how did Stranded violate forum's rules?

glamdering
03-12-2009, 05:33 PM
1 US$ = 0.777544514 Euros

hahaha Euros value just went down! meaning you get it cheaper!! LOL maybe they were predicting something ;)

SniperFox
03-12-2009, 05:41 PM
1 US$ = 0.777544514 Euros

hahaha Euros value just went down! meaning you get it cheaper!! LOL maybe they were predicting something ;)

Wrong way around.

1 Euro = 1.2861 U.S. dollars

glamdering
03-12-2009, 05:42 PM
when did you last check because according to the newest trading rate it says 1 US$ = 0.777544514 Euros

glamdering
03-12-2009, 05:45 PM
HAHA sorry dude i didn't notice you were just reading it the other way :P my bad
1 Euro = 1.2861 US$

same as

1 US$ = 0.777544514 Euros :P

cryptodan
03-12-2009, 05:45 PM
when did you last check because according to the newest trading rate it says 1 US$ = 0.777544514 Euros

1.00 EUR = 1.29049 USD

Euro 1 EUR = 1.29049 USD

United States Dollars 1 USD = 0.774897 EUR

glamdering
03-12-2009, 05:51 PM
yeah i know i said that earlier i didn't notice what you were saying :P

why don't all you Euro ppl get a chain email or something going and send it to steam showing all the ppl that won't stand for it and will no longer buy from them tell they fix this?

kScope
03-13-2009, 03:06 AM
why don't all you Euro ppl get a chain email or something going and send it to steam showing all the ppl that won't stand for it and will no longer buy from them tell they fix this?

There is already a steam group (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/1e1us) counting more than 18000 ppl, isn't it enough?

ultio
03-13-2009, 08:13 AM
The European Commission finished working on this matter, here is the 4 pages long answer (.pdf file):

http://uploaded.to/?id=yas2ft

As I thought, these price differences are 100% legal and they were there all the time. I mean, if I go a store, all the new games cost about 50€, that is in fact the usual price. And in the US, new games cost about $50 as well, but now with Steam, people just realise these differences.
The tax thing is also mentioned in that .pdf file I linked above.

A moderator may change the first post? The European Commission doesn't need any more complaints about that.

Near Elite
03-13-2009, 08:18 AM
The European Commission finished working on this matter, here is the 4 pages answer (.pdf file):

http://uploaded.to/?id=yas2ft

As I thought, these price differences are 100% legal and they were there all the time. I mean, if I go a store, all the new games cost about 50€, that is in fact the usual price. And in the US, new games cost about $50 as well, but now with Steam, people just realise these differences.
The tax thing is also mentioned in that .pdf file I linked above.

I haven't analyzed every word in the letter, but isn't the problem the fact we can't access the UK store, rather than price differences?

Is that mentioned in the reply?

tkossak
03-13-2009, 08:19 AM
As I thought, these price differences are 100% legal and they were there all the time.

but - as i understood - the whole deal is not only about price differences. The main deal is forbidding us to buy from UK or USA steam store (in GBP/USD)