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U62
08-25-2009, 06:28 AM
If all the truths posted in this thread had been left un-moderated, this thread would be at least 600 pages long, if not more.

It's amazing how someone's words can be twisted and misconstrued, in order to make them seem off topic and irrelevant.

cryptodan
08-25-2009, 06:30 AM
If you have issues with posts being deleted take it up with these people: Forum Leaders (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showgroups.php).

U62
08-25-2009, 06:30 AM
Funny how fast posts dissapear without even a single reaction in the pm (UK time)

Good morning America.

epsylon_Z1
08-25-2009, 07:27 AM
I found this thread useless.It's not on the front page of Steam store,and not everybody who buy game from Steam read this forum.
It's time to realize,we lost the war against Valve.

wontolla
08-25-2009, 07:38 AM
Maybe but we can keep making noise.

Wulfklaue
08-25-2009, 07:42 AM
Maybe but we can keep making noise.

Making noise is all good & well, but with trigger happy moderators, who do not even look at the content off a post ( like posts that have maybe a few lines about the moderation, and all the rest on-topic. There responds is still delete ).

A half hour ago, another 4 or 5 posts "vanished". It seems the moderators are dead set on not letting this post grow beyond page 118. *lol* We have already 20+ confirmed deleted posts in the last 14 hours.

Even one off my posts that had a official explanation from a moderator ... vanished. Fun when one moderator is deleting posts that hold information from a other moderator. Looks almost childish to me...

hvkasteren
08-25-2009, 10:03 AM
It's time to realize,we lost the war against Valve.

The war isn't lost until there's noone who's willing to keep informing people. We might be getting stonewalled by all the news sites, and by Valve, but each time we inform someone of the rip-off Valve is trying, and manage to convince them to buy elsewhere it's a battle won for us.

mouton
08-25-2009, 10:38 AM
It's time to realize,we lost the war against Valve.
Well, it was extremely unlikely that they would backtrack on their decision anyway.

But look at this from this point of view: Whenever a company does something like this to their customers, they hope and pray no one really notices and everything goes away as quietly as possible, and faithful lemmings keep buying games at the inflated prices.

This thread is a proof they did not succeed.

Zodiac+
08-25-2009, 11:18 AM
It's time to realize,we lost the war against Valve.

What absolute twaddle! Anybody with half a brain knows to price check before diving head first in buying something.

Retail (at least within the UK) has consistently been cheaper, unless Valve have a half price weekend or selling their own inhouse software.

chopstix
08-25-2009, 11:28 AM
It's time to realize,we lost the war against Valve.

No cause is lost. The best way to keep up the fight is to continually inform consumers that you see who are misguided in a polite manner, and even create a website if possible to refer others to. One that provides fair information about the price differences and lets consumers make a better informed decision.

For example, this page (http://ddreview.5elements.net/price-comparison/) is going in the right direction, but it considers all services and not just Steam alone, which is the service in question here. More sites like this would help, and improve the awareness of the problem.

Thus, in my mind anyways, the fight is still going. This may just be a temporary lull, but plenty more can be said and done to inform consumers.

chopstix
08-25-2009, 11:32 AM
What absolute twaddle! Anybody with half a brain knows to price check before diving head first in buying something.

Retail (at least within the UK) has consistently been cheaper, unless Valve have a half price weekend or selling their own inhouse software.

That would seem logical, and those with common sense would do this, but it seems that is often not the case. Even for the US, games can often be purchased cheaper through online retailers. However, anytime the subject of cost is brought up, people instantly tell me the opposite despite obvious evidence in my favor.

It's a sad state sometimes, and one of the reasons prices continue to stay inflated imo. Thus, why people consistently need to stay inform others and let them make a better informed choice. Do they want to save money, or do they prefer convenience for a premium?

Toto pectore
08-25-2009, 11:46 AM
This is a friendly reminder that advertising is not allowed. Keep this in mind as you're posting on the forums. You can find this and more in the Rules and Guidelines forum. Thanks! Have a good one.

Hello there!
Talking about 'advertising'... I got so called 'red card' (good thing is the forum is not football ;) ) for 'advertising', also in Rules section is mentioned 'advertising' without any additional explanation.

I will bring in three very used exemplary sentences and can you please explain to us - poor forum users - which one of those sentences is advertising and which is not?

Let's go:
Sample no.1
You can buy Fallout on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/38400/)
Sample no.2
You can buy Fallout on GOG.com (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/fallout)
Sample no.3
You can buy Fallout on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/38400/), but it's cheaper on GOG.com (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/fallout)

Thank you for your time.

*VeLeRoN*
08-25-2009, 12:17 PM
No 2 and 3 are ads. Anything else?

Zodiac+
08-25-2009, 12:22 PM
No 2 and 3 are ads. Anything else?

I think Toto was being ironic ;)

Toto pectore
08-25-2009, 12:37 PM
I think Toto was being ironic ;)

I was not :mad: I still don't get the difference between 1 and 2.

They are either both advertisements or they are both not.

And thanx for another red card without explanation...

epsylon_Z1
08-25-2009, 12:38 PM
maybe because we know that anybody can buy from italmost anybody

mchufnagel
08-25-2009, 12:42 PM
No 2 and 3 are ads. Anything else?

So are #2 & #3 ads because they mention an online competitor then? Because I've seen plenty of price comparisons between Steam and b&m stores (by name)that haven't been deleted. :confused:

eram
08-25-2009, 12:43 PM
I was not :mad: I still don't get the difference between 1 and 2.

They are either both advertisements or they are both not.

And thanx for another red card without explanation...

kfccaleb, you should know the rules by now. You can stop acting like a new member.
If you have issues with anyone you can pm the moderator that issued the warning/infraction. But you already know this.

chopstix
08-25-2009, 12:44 PM
I was not :mad: I still don't get the difference between 1 and 2.

They are either both advertisements or they are both not.

And thanx for another red card without explanation...

Although they are both technically advertisements, they are considered differently due to double standards. Advertising for their own service is allowed, but advertising for another is not.

Personally I can't understand censoring such posts, because censorship usually leads to backlashes elsewhere, where information cannot be monitored as well. Considering this is all contained in one thread and is on topic, that Euro prices are excessively inflated on the Steam service, comparisons seem valid to the discussion.

*VeLeRoN*
08-25-2009, 12:45 PM
I was not :mad: I still don't get the difference between 1 and 2.

They are either both advertisements or they are both not.

Right, No1 can't be considered an ad as it's the same service as these forums. It's all steam. You can't advertise steam on steam forums. Makes no sense.

Posts like "go here <an external link> - it's good <reason here>" are against the rules.

What eram said. Kfccaleb.


Because I've seen plenty of price comparisons between Steam and b&m stores (by name)that haven't been deleted. :confused:
They haven't been deleted yet even though they violated the forum's rules. And again, price comparisons are just fine. Advertising is not.

mchufnagel
08-25-2009, 12:56 PM
They haven't been deleted yet even though they violated the forum's rules. And again, price comparisons are just fine. Advertising is not.


The funny thing is, the posts mentioning this particular onliine competitor that have been deleted are very recent posts. The posts mentioning the other stores are several weeks old, yet still remain.

hvkasteren
08-25-2009, 01:00 PM
Veleron, you make it sound like you're preparing for a major cleanup of this thread, where you'll remove any price comparisons that name or link to competitors. An action like that would basicly equate to full-blown censorship, since all the factual evidence to Valve's overpricing of games will be removed.

Always nice to see how Valve keeps mentioning the problems they see in the gaming industry, but manage to do all those things themselves in their own service.

mchufnagel
08-25-2009, 01:07 PM
Veleron, you make it sound like you're preparing for a major cleanup of this thread, where you'll remove any price comparisons that name or link to competitors. An action like that would basicly equate to full-blown censorship, since all the factual evidence to Valve's overpricing of games will be removed.

Always nice to see how Valve keeps mentioning the problems they see in the gaming industry, but manage to do all those things themselves in their own service.

Since Valve owns these forums they can do what they want on them. Even if it does make them look petty. But down the road, such actions tend to bite people (and companies) on the butt.

cryptodan
08-25-2009, 01:09 PM
You do know that you can contact the publishers and see why they have such high prices on Steam and get a better idea.

epsylon_Z1
08-25-2009, 01:09 PM
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=351

II. The following topics are strictly off limits, including in external links:

* Porn, gross stuff, or anything else not safe for work
* Piracy, warez, Leaked content
* Cheating, hacking, game exploits
* Threats of violence or harassment, even as a joke
* Posting copyrighted material such as magazine scans
* Soliciting, auctioning, selling, advertising, referrals
* Racism, discrimination
* Drugs, alcohol
* Religious, political, and other “prone to huge arguments” threads

*VeLeRoN*
08-25-2009, 01:10 PM
Veleron, you make it sound like you're preparing for a major cleanup of this thread
No one is preparing for anything. You are expected to follow the forum's rules. If you are not willing to, then it's another story.

Wulfklaue
08-25-2009, 01:26 PM
They haven't been deleted yet even though they violated the forum's rules. And again, price comparisons are just fine. Advertising is not.

There need to be made a few "if" points. Its been a while from the last time that i read the rules, but i'm rather sure there was no rule stating anything about advertisement.

This reminds me so much about the "steamunpowered.eu" link that got a dozen people banned ( and god knows how many posts deleted ). There was no rule against it, yet people got banned, posts got deleted. Even when people pointed out that it was not against the rules... Guess what. Those people there posts also got deleted or they got banned.

After a while it was suddenly ok, to use that link ( nobody knows why ). But after that, the rules have been updated to include the ability to filter "external links".

Now we see the this:

II. The following topics are strictly off limits, including in external links:

* Soliciting, auctioning, selling, advertising, referrals


The question is, how long has it been there? The rules post got edited last night, by the same moderator that deleted all those posts. Very handy i say. And no, i'm not insinuating anything. Just pointing out that its rather coincidental...

But, lets put that aside. Based on the current rules, anything we post can be deleted under one rule or another.

The odd part is, even if something happens, its every time, and i do mean every time, the exact same problem. No reason has been given, and post disappear. Only when people complain about it, there is a small chance off getting a responds.

People who do complain about it, are imitatively taken down with the "No Backseat moderating" rule. And get -2 points.

Note: -10 = instant ban. And its very easy to give somebody a instant ban. Just delete 5 posts off that person with a -2, and there are out off here. They can not even use there account to PM other moderators, or prove anything.

And here we are, 20+, 30+? posts deleted again. And still nobody that has any official power ( that goes beyond a moderator ) can be contacted. When even the moderator them selfs are not sure, if what was posted here is ok, or not ok, and they need to check with Support.

So, lets assume it was not ok, to delete all these posts? What now? They are still gone. People still have there -2 infraction points. Some people may even been banned. Are those posts going to appear again? No. Are those people there ban's going to be removed? No ( hell, we can see that every day, just looking at the original poster off this topic ;) ).

No one is preparing for anything. You are expected to follow the forum's rules. If you are not willing to, then it's another story.

And how long ago, was that advertisement word added to the rules? How many people even know about it?

There is a reason why there are road sign's everywhere, to tell people how fast they can drive. The government does not put them there for fun. But they are placed on a visual way. Nobody here is going to be looking at the rules every day in that nice separate forum. Just to see if something has been added.

And to be honest, its not even the point. There has been a excessive over moderating, all this time. Most off the time, there has been no "rule" given. Only when things heat up, there is a quick post made about a rule somewhere.

But, moderator a enforces a rule. Moderator b has his own interpretation of a rule, and does not enforce it. Moderator c ...

There is a reason why we, the forum users have been asking for a independent jury, or head moderator, or anything, where we can go with a complaint. The excuse that is given: "talk to the moderator that did the delete" is useless, because 9/10 chance you do not get a reply. Its like talking to a rock. Fun at first, until you realize the futility.

I think that most people who have had some experience with the moderators, especially people in this thread, see moderators more like Secret Police, who have nobody above them, and act how they like.

And please ... deleting cost you 2 second. Writing informative posts, dealing with the topic at hand takes us 5, 10, 30, 60 minutes!!! Learn to also respect your own users there hard work, and don't just press that delete button because its easy.

You know what? I'm in favor off a system where a moderator gets only 5 deletes each day. This way, only posts that really deserve it will be deleted. Lets start talking about some rules for the moderators!

eram
08-25-2009, 01:30 PM
Wulfklaue,The rule has been there since 2003.

sciss0rz
08-25-2009, 01:34 PM
Advertising is not new. What was added was "Re-post Closed, Modified, Deleted Content" and the bit about not sharing your forum account.

edit: that should have said "re-wording the bit about not sharing.."

Wulfklaue
08-25-2009, 01:35 PM
Wulfklaue,The rule has been there since 2003

Content deleted on Eram's request!

impar
08-25-2009, 01:50 PM
Greetings!
And again, price comparisons are just fine. Advertising is not.
So, price comparisons are accepted as long as there are no links to lower prices to non-Steam-stores?

mouton
08-25-2009, 01:52 PM
This is a friendly reminder that advertising is not allowed. Keep this in mind as you're posting on the forums. You can find this and more in the Rules and Guidelines forum. Thanks! Have a good one.
Are we forbidden to mention other shops and compare prices? Because prices are, like, the point of this thread. If you deny that, this thread loses the last shreds of actual usefulness and you might just lock it away finally.

Hell, lock it anyway, this thread became pointless at least half a year ago. It neither made Valve reconsider their positively mongoloid decision and it didn't prevent the issue from spilling over to other topics. And, with first post being a banned mess, it is not even informative.

What-ever.

Akudama89
08-25-2009, 01:59 PM
Are we forbidden to mention other shops and compare prices? Because prices are, like, the point of this thread. If you deny that, this thread loses the last shreds of actual usefulness and you might just lock it away finally.

Hell, lock it anyway, this thread became pointless at least half a year ago. It neither made Valve reconsider their positively mongoloid decision and it didn't prevent the issue from spilling over to other topics. And, with first post being a banned mess, it is not even informative.

What-ever.

You should be forbidden to mention other shops and compare prices, tell me one shop where you can go into it and start telling every single person coming into the shop that across the street has a better price, and tell me you won't be told to leave the premises. This is the STEAM forums, not amazon, not impulse, not anything else other then the STEAM forums.

ReBoot
08-25-2009, 02:00 PM
You should be forbidden to mention other shops and compare prices, tell me one shop where you can go into it and start telling every single person coming into the shop that across the street has a better price, and tell me you won't be told to leave the premises. This is the STEAM forums, not amazon, not impulse, not anything else other then the STEAM forums.There are alot of shops. In fact, mentioning other shops is as legal as mentioning anything else.

epsylon_Z1
08-25-2009, 02:02 PM
You should be forbidden to mention other shops then edit your last line ;)

impar
08-25-2009, 02:02 PM
Greetings!
This is the STEAM forums, not amazon, not impulse, not anything else other then the STEAM forums.
So?
With current prices, Steam is not a game store. Its a DRM system.

Akudama89
08-25-2009, 02:06 PM
Mmkay i'm not gonna continue to look in this forum, you guys are so far off in your own little world it's amazing that people have such little common sense in reality

then edit your last line ;)

Yes i realize the irony :P

There are alot of shops. In fact, mentioning other shops is as legal as mentioning anything else.

Ever heard of a private forum? Are you trying to tell me you can come into my house, eat whatever you want, and invite anyone in, even if my rules say not to?

weep
08-25-2009, 02:08 PM
You do know that you can contact the publishers and see why they have such high prices on Steam and get a better idea.

You know what, I did just that (EA in this case)! I'l get back to you guys with an answer when (if) I get one.

chopstix
08-25-2009, 02:15 PM
Mmkay i'm not gonna continue to look in this forum, you guys are so far off in your own little world it's amazing that people have such little common sense in reality

Actually, a store really can't toss someone out for having a friendly discussion with someone else. If they came in waving flyers around advertising, then of course. However, considering this is isolated to one thread, I would relate this to a friendly discussion in a store.

Plenty of times me and fellow consumers in stores have struck up a conversation and helped each other. It even gets better, as some stores actually have employees that care enough to give you a tip to buy products elsewhere if they see fit (rare but it has happened from time to time).

When we couldn't afford my grandmother's medicine due to having no insurance, the store gladly helped us on how to get it elsewhere at a reasonable rate. Heck, a car insurance company often advertised on television will give comparison rates (http://www.progressive.com/shop/about-car-insurance-compare.aspx).

So, no, the people in this thread are not 'far off in their own world.' Maybe it depends on how friendly people are where you live, but here I have never seen any interference with friendly chats in stores and where to get better deals.

Akudama89
08-25-2009, 02:23 PM
Actually, a store really can't toss someone out for having a friendly discussion with someone else. If they came in waving flyers around advertising, then of course. However, considering this is isolated to one thread, I would relate this to a friendly discussion in a store.

Plenty of times me and fellow consumers in stores have struck up a conversation and helped each other. It even gets better, as some stores actually have employees that care enough to give you a tip to buy products elsewhere if they see fit (rare but it has happened from time to time).

When we couldn't afford my grandmother's medicine due to having no insurance, the store gladly helped us on how to get it elsewhere at a reasonable rate. Heck, a car insurance company often advertised on television will give comparison rates (http://www.progressive.com/shop/about-car-insurance-compare.aspx).

So, no, the people in this thread are not 'far off in their own world.' Maybe it depends on how friendly people are where you live, but here I have never seen any interference with friendly chats in stores and where to get better deals.

true, i do agree with that, however, if this thread just turned into a big "hey come here to find out where to get games cheaper!", which, if people keep linking to other websites saying it's cheaper there, is exactly what it is turning into, then that's the same as trying to open up stand in wal-mart for people to come to find out where to get it cheaper than walmart

As to if a company is willing to opening compare the prices between all of their competitors, or just one, that's fine, but if a company does not, then you can't say it's unfair, their company their rules.

mchufnagel
08-25-2009, 03:36 PM
As to if a company is willing to opening compare the prices between all of their competitors, or just one, that's fine, but if a company does not, then you can't say it's unfair, their company their rules.

Yes, but price comparison posts have been selectively deleted. I can still see posts from many weeks ago that compared Steam prices with specifically named b&m and online stores. Those posts weren't immediately deleted. If one seller of games is not to be named here, why not all of them?

KSMF
08-25-2009, 03:45 PM
Steam is not a game store.

http://store.steampowered.com/

You are wrong mister.

Akudama89
08-25-2009, 03:59 PM
Yes, but price comparison posts have been selectively deleted. I can still see posts from many weeks ago that compared Steam prices with specifically named b&m and online stores. Those posts weren't immediately deleted. If one seller of games is not to be named here, why not all of them?

maybe they don't want to go through the entire 420 page thread and delete/modify every post, and are only currently really cracking down on it? I mean cmon do you want to read 6300 posts to see if there are links that are not allowed from quite some time ago?

marekfreak1
08-25-2009, 05:25 PM
maybe they don't want to go through the entire 420 page thread and delete/modify every post, and are only currently really cracking down on it? I mean cmon do you want to read 6300 posts to see if there are links that are not allowed from quite some time ago?

We cant avoid the attention from those who only have the influence to enforce rules or steer a thread in a mere forum, no matter how they interpret those rules for better or worse...that's life...it's their jobs, their small roles to play...

...the main point is they really cannot make a real difference to the main topic of this thread, except to fuel the Euros anger as demonstrated by recent events. No offence intended.

I just wish Gabe & co. or someone in an official sense, were as active, as honest and forthcoming as the Mods are concerning this thread...even anonymously.

bippukt
08-25-2009, 11:48 PM
I had a thought: US customers are also getting ripped off (on retail and Steam) ;)

I buy new games (via retail) @ INR 1000

1 USD ~ 50 INR

So, I buy games @ $20 :D Unfortunately, this doesn't hold true for console games, which cost me $50, and are therefore, not bought.

EDIT: In case you didn't notice, this post is mostly in jest, although the details are correct.

SaxtonHale
08-26-2009, 01:45 AM
steam needs to change pricing definatly

impar
08-26-2009, 02:10 AM
Greetings!
http://store.steampowered.com/
You are wrong mister.
Not a viable store to buy from.
Steam currently only has the purpose of being an acceptable DRM system.

wontolla
08-26-2009, 02:19 AM
Greetings!

So, price comparisons are accepted as long as there are no links to lower prices to non-Steam-stores?

Any Moderator could answer that?.

I think that Valve is not going to change the USD / EU change.
Probably (in several months) the EU could do something about it.
And, in the end, somebody very jarateed, with a lot of time to spare brings the EULA to a lawyer, just because lots of articles are against the consume laws in the EU, but that don't change prices, just affect the resell / gifting / several copies purchased matter.

Anything else is about making noise, as usual most of forum moderators think that all of us are a bunch of 18 years old boys living with their parents and lousy works, wake up guyz !!! Just try to be legal and don't mess with the wrong people, I know a few steam accionist in the forums.

mchufnagel
08-26-2009, 04:34 AM
maybe they don't want to go through the entire 420 page thread and delete/modify every post, and are only currently really cracking down on it? I mean cmon do you want to read 6300 posts to see if there are links that are not allowed from quite some time ago?

This forum has been heavily watched since it's inception. If the mods wanted to, they would have taken action when those posts were created. This new flurry of action started around the time the Interplay catalog was introduced.

mouton
08-26-2009, 05:39 AM
maybe they don't want to go through the entire 420 page thread and delete/modify every post, and are only currently really cracking down on it? I mean cmon do you want to read 6300 posts to see if there are links that are not allowed from quite some time ago?
Speaking of what's forbidden and what's not, aren't your posts gravitating towards backseat moderation? That's a major no-no as well.

Damn, and I am doing it too, now D: But the only other option was reporting you and that's just evil. So I had to fight fire with fire.

Or I could have ignored your post, but this is forbidden in the internet.

quinn.mallory
08-26-2009, 07:16 AM
hi there,
just checked some lexica and wikiquote about the definiton on 'Advertising'
-> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Advertising

Advertising is paid communication through a non-personal medium in which the sponsor is identified and the message is controlled.

i read some posts in here i dont see anyone fullfillin the act of advertising.its not that someone got paid to paste links in here (that would be real advertising)....and thus i come to the conclusion that steam moderators are kinda just take advantage of their status and censor/over-react becoz they dont understand much, whats going on.

cya
(waitin for my ban/or deleted post violating possible rules mods may say)

MALICE00
08-26-2009, 07:24 AM
its not that someone got paid to paste links in here (that would be real advertising)....

I get paid for doing that, but I haven't that in this thread... Or on this forum for that matter. ;-)

But all kidding aside, I agree, only thing I see here is users helping out other users getting their games cheaper than here on Steam... No crime in that if you ask me.

Firefun
08-26-2009, 07:35 AM
Advertising or not, the Steam forum belongs to Valve. They make the rules and i can understand that they, as a company, don´t like bad reputation in any way. It´s a gray zone on how to react on the posts in this thread.

bippukt
08-26-2009, 08:06 AM
But all kidding aside, I agree, only thing I see here is users helping out other users getting their games cheaper than here on Steam... No crime in that if you ask me.

Is that necessary to do that in the Steam forums themselves? I mean, there are a lot of forums dedicated to gaming. Expose this currency fracas elsewhere to your heart's content. One person I know got an unbelievable infraction, so he posted in a gaming forum and we had a lot of fun talking about it :)

I also think that some heavy handed treatment is being meted out, but it also true that they are free to frame the rules here as they please. If you don't like it, don't use it.

I agree that the euro - dollar equality isn't fair, BTW.

killedlove
08-26-2009, 08:29 AM
I see no need to kick the guy. Shame on you, support.

quinn.mallory
08-26-2009, 09:50 AM
. They make the rules and i can understand that they, as a company, don´t like bad reputation in any way.
i can understand that too. Even tho, problems can be solved in different ways. Deleting Posts = censorship, Discussing about that and changing = the way normal ppl do. Also 'bad reputation' can always help to change such an image...


Is that necessary to do that in the Steam forums themselves? I mean, there are a lot of forums dedicated to gaming. Expose this currency fracas elsewhere to your heart's content.
Have you ever heard about Freedom of Speech? Its like telling Black People to move, becoz they can be at Places where Black People live. If you dont like to read about it, dont read it. People are always allowed to compare Prices etc. thats passed by Law. This is just mouth-propaganda, goin on in this thread. But imo this thread is gettin mixed with alot offtopic. If you have found same games on steam cheaper, you could paste it in the sticky
"Sticky: Price reductions and sales! /sciss0rz "
or mibi even off-topic i think..just dunno....mods decide (wheter its oke or not.)

@mods
you could also create some sticky 'found games cheaper? in here (no ads!)' why strugglin about that, by deleting posts/censoring etc.
cooperative is what everyone should be, dont you think so?

k00pa
08-26-2009, 10:28 AM
I just come here to post!

I want cheapper games and more rofflcopters!

chopstix
08-26-2009, 10:43 AM
Have you ever heard about Freedom of Speech?
As much as I am for this thread and I don't see comparing prices as outright advertising, I have to disagree. Freedom of speech does not apply to forums that are privately run by a corporation. Valve and moderators are free to do as they please.

People often take freedom of speech to literally, and don't fully understand the concept of it. That freedom does not mean post/say whatever you want anywhere you want. Private organizations have their rules that must be followed regardless.

deelay1
08-26-2009, 10:49 AM
Oh $deity...
This is getting ridiculous, pricing is still 20-300% more than retail, this forum is getting a hostile place for posting peoples thoughts, I should uninstall Steam and just live with loosing the few hundred dollars I have invested in this service...

Wulfklaue
08-26-2009, 11:15 AM
Oh $deity...
This is getting ridiculous, pricing is still 20-300% more than retail, this forum is getting a hostile place for posting peoples thoughts, I should uninstall Steam and just live with loosing the few hundred dollars I have invested in this service...

You mean 20-500% more then retail. But hey ... now we don't need to prove our claims anymore, because ... its advertisement :p

Steam ... 2000% more expensive then retail. Prove me wrong *lol* O wait, nobody can because its going to be considered advertisement ha ha ha ;)

supernaut
08-26-2009, 11:25 AM
Linking to a site with a better deal is advertising ?

First time I'm hearing about this. I've seen it being done all over these forums loads of times.

And it's a price comparison by it's very nature, if you post it in that same thread. Granted, if you make a separate topic under General Steam Discussion, then that would be advertising. If it's posted under Off Topic then it's definitely not advertising imo, cos gamers keep together and they inform each other of great deals on the web. I guess if being helpful is against the rules, then so be it.

Let me know if I misunderstood anything.

quinn.mallory
08-26-2009, 12:04 PM
As much as I am for this thread and I don't see comparing prices as outright advertising, I have to disagree. Freedom of speech does not apply to forums that are privately run by a corporation. Valve and moderators are free to do as they please.

People often take freedom of speech to literally, and don't fully understand the concept of it. That freedom does not mean post/say whatever you want anywhere you want. Private organizations have their rules that must be followed regardless.

Freedom of Speech applys everywhere, excludin china/etc. ofc u cant post/say whatever you want where u want. your RIGHT of if ends where u hurt RIGHTS by others...thats always been (usa, europe) and alaways is. Private Forums never exclude freedom of speech, lol, they just restrict to not hurt 'anyone' who might be offenced or anything. You telling people to leave this forum and write their arguments on other forums etc. doesnt seem you to have understand whats the concept of it.

q.e.d

chopstix
08-26-2009, 12:24 PM
Freedom of Speech applys everywhere, excludin china/etc. ofc u cant post/say whatever you want where u want. your RIGHT of if ends where u hurt RIGHTS by others

In regards to the U.S, that is not how it works. A little googling will provide you with quite a bit of information that privately run areas can be run as they please. Freedom of speech by the government refers more to the ability to speak out against your government without fear of harm, and allow you to speak your mind on public grounds.

Privately owned areas are under private control. Freedom of speech does not apply, and I encourage you to Google for more reference to this.

You telling people to leave this forum and write their arguments on other forums etc. doesnt seem you to have understand whats the concept of it.
I personally never said that, someone else did. I prefer staying here and voicing my opinions and comparing prices. However, I am fully aware moderators can remove me at any time and the freedom of speech argument does not apply.

Actually, this is a good article for you (http://www.slate.com/id/2079885/). Freedom of speech was once allowed on private property, but it has since been reversed through later court cases in the 1970s. However, they mention an exception from 1980, but this is due to the state's constitution and not the U.S. Constitution. According to that article, only six states allow freedom of speech on private property, so unless a state allows it, you have no right to speak as you wish on private property.

Again, I support this thread and am not agreeing with posting elsewhere, but freedom of speech is simply not a valid argument for forums on the internet.

Now, I believe we are getting to far off topic, back to prices so as not to derail this thread. If you wish to continue with this further, I will gladly discuss it in PMs. I do not want to be responsible for bring more scrutiny to this thread with off topic subjects than it already has.

Zodiac+
08-26-2009, 12:25 PM
You telling people to leave this forum and write their arguments on other forums etc. doesnt seem you to have understand whats the concept of it.

Wow, if you are going to have a go at a persons knowledge of a certain subject, at least make sure you don't open yourself up to scrutiny (i.e. grammar).

bippukt
08-26-2009, 12:35 PM
You mean 20-500% more then retail. But hey ... now we don't need to prove our claims anymore, because ... its advertisement :p

Steam ... 2000% more expensive then retail. Prove me wrong *lol* O wait, nobody can because its going to be considered advertisement ha ha ha ;)

Interesting :)

I personally never said that, someone else did. I prefer staying here and voicing my opinions and comparing prices. However, I am fully aware moderators can remove me at any time and the freedom of speech argument does not apply.

I did not tell anyone to leave. I just made a suggestion that the things that are being censored here can be discussed elsewhere. Who am I to tell anyone to leave?

That said, I agree that we need to bring the thread back on the original topic.

Toto pectore
08-26-2009, 12:43 PM
You can't advertise steam on steam forums. Makes no sense.
Can't agree with you. If for example Honda put banner or sentence "You can buy new Honda Civic" on their website then with your logic it's not advertisement because it's on their website...
But...
Advertising is a form of communication used to help sell products and services.
Therefore every link or even mentioning of product or service is helping to sell it - therefore it can be considered as advertising.
Although they are both technically advertisements, they are considered differently due to double standards. Advertising for their own service is allowed, but advertising for another is not.
I find this explanation more satisfying.

Anyway I put innocent question to Matt - who seems to be creator of forum rules and ask him about term explanation. There is no need to intimidate me.

chopstix
08-26-2009, 12:49 PM
Interesting :)I did not tell anyone to leave. I just made a suggestion that the things that are being censored here can be discussed elsewhere. Who am I to tell anyone to leave?

My apologies, as that was not even directed towards you. I was simply defending myself as it seemed Quinn was accusing me of saying similar things, which maybe I misunderstood. I honestly didn't remember who said what earlier, and I was just responding to the one post. So again, my apologies if that comment came across wrong.

Wulfklaue
08-27-2009, 12:52 AM
This may be slightly off topic, but as this concerns the entire 1$=1€ thread.

After a rather lengthy ticked to support ( 10 pages or so? *lol* ), i got this reply from Steam Support:

----------------------------

Thank you for contacting Steam Support. I have instructed the volunteer moderators not to delete posts in the 1$=1€ Forum thread except in cases where there is an egregious violation of our Terms of Use. The Support department is not the group that is going to have answers for your questions regarding pricing policies. You should address them to xxxx xxxx xxx@valvesoftware.com our director of business development.

----------------------------

I have cut out the name, and email address ( privacy ). I'll mail that person later on.

I hope this information is off use to people.

wontolla
08-27-2009, 02:07 AM
Cool I hope you get an answer

bippukt
08-27-2009, 02:21 AM
This may be slightly off topic, but as this concerns the entire 1$=1€ thread.

After a rather lengthy ticked to support ( 10 pages or so? *lol* ), i got this reply from Steam Support:

----------------------------

Thank you for contacting Steam Support. I have instructed the volunteer moderators not to delete posts in the 1$=1€ Forum thread except in cases where there is an egregious violation of our Terms of Use. The Support department is not the group that is going to have answers for your questions regarding pricing policies. You should address them to xxxx xxxx xxx@valvesoftware.com our director of business development.

----------------------------

I have cut out the name, and email address ( privacy ). I'll mail that person later on.

I hope this information is off use to people.

It's very much on topic, IMO. And I commend you on your efforts. Hopefully, you'll get a response.

+rep

DJ_Professor_K
08-27-2009, 02:35 AM
6223 posts and no reply... wonder what we can do next...

Does anyone have the key and code for the National Defense missile system?

briankearon666
08-27-2009, 03:48 AM
It's very much on topic, IMO. And I commend you on your efforts. Hopefully, you'll get a response.

+rep

I agree, it couldn't be more on topic really!!! I tried that way twice and got fobbed off, saying that they do not and will not deal with pricing queries.

Hope you do get a reply and someting positive comes of it.

Wulfklaue
08-27-2009, 04:00 AM
Hope you do get a reply and something positive comes of it.

Mail has been send. Now we can only wait to see if there is a responds.

If the responds is on topic. And if its truthfully and not some PR mail how everything is ok ( god, i hate those kind off mails ;) ).

Its only 17KB off text. 58 Questions, information, and a few statements, etc ;) I know. Some will disagree with my method of writing ( very long texts ), but at leased it got a answer out of support. So, lets see if it works again?

I think i have touched upon every major subject ( and a few minor ) one's that have resulted from this thread. Now its up to Valve to act upon it, or to again, ignore it...

To me, ignoring problems is easy. Acting upon complaints from the customers, and fixing the reasonable complaints, thats the hard part ( and i think we all agree, that the price problem is a reasonable complaint ;) ).

mchufnagel
08-27-2009, 05:25 AM
Thanks Wulfklaue for your hard work and dedication on this matter. Most people would have given up by now. While I honestly don't think things will change on pricing, but maybe things will change on the attitude towards this thread and the people posting in it.

k00pa
08-27-2009, 07:45 AM
No really, banning creator of this topic is pretty ♥♥♥♥ty. And also this prizing thing is pretty ♥♥♥♥ty.

I recommend to try g2play. Super cheap stuff there.

k00pa
08-27-2009, 07:49 AM
ERm and why the ♥♥♥♥ DOES THE STEAM TRANSLATE

g2play to SteamPowered!??! WHAT THE ♥♥♥♥ IS THAT?!?

epsylon_Z1
08-27-2009, 08:09 AM
the name of that site baned

mchufnagel
08-27-2009, 08:14 AM
ERm and why the ♥♥♥♥ DOES THE STEAM TRANSLATE

g
2
play to SteamPowered!??! WHAT THE ♥♥♥♥ IS THAT?!?

They have been caught selling illegal keys. Why would you recommend a dodgy site like that?

k00pa
08-27-2009, 09:09 AM
oh great... They have realized that that site does a freaking great job to provide resonably prized games for everyone. So valve decides to ban it...

mchufnagel
08-27-2009, 09:18 AM
oh great... They have realized that that site does a freaking great job to provide resonably prized games for everyone. So valve decides to ban it...

Valve has banned it because of what they do is legally questionable.

hvkasteren
08-27-2009, 11:51 AM
Wow, excellent new on the front page. The former prince of persia trilogy is finally available in Europe. I've been wanting to get these games without the DRM that stopped me from buying them in retail.

Too bad that even with the 10% discount Europe is getting for the release, the games are still 28% more expensive than they are in the US (regular price).

Let's hope other, more fair priced, services will get these games as well now.

dBeta
08-27-2009, 12:53 PM
Well done mods. You've annoyed the original poster. (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/1e1us/announcements/detail/73337266342377718)

Buy Telltale games from Telltale, (Except Hard Evidence, of course) and buy everything else in retail stores. Or by going on GamesTracker. Or something.

robber9000
08-27-2009, 06:38 PM
They still didn't do ♥♥♥♥ about this? Seriously VALVe can't you like make an auto adjuster streaming live currency rates or maybe price them according to a region's prices? :/

/bump

Air_Force
08-28-2009, 03:03 AM
They still didn't do ♥♥♥♥ about this? Seriously VALVe can't you like make an auto adjuster streaming live currency rates or maybe price them according to a region's prices? :/

/bump


Wouldnt make big difference, Impulse does have similar system yet many games are regionally priced. Its problem on publishers side, they simply wont sell games for same prices in US and EU. There are many replies on Impulse forums from Stardock about regional pricing. They said its either regionally priced game or they wont be able to sell game in EU at all

mchufnagel
08-28-2009, 04:37 AM
Wouldnt make big difference, Impulse does have similar system yet many games are regionally priced. Its problem on publishers side, they simply wont sell games for same prices in US and EU. There are many replies on Impulse forums from Stardock about regional pricing. They said its either regionally priced game or they wont be able to sell game in EU at all

I too saw this on the Impulse forums. But at least Stardock had the guts to tell their customers the "what and why" of their actions. Nobody from Valve has done this. So it puts Valve in a worse light than Stardock. To me it doesn't matter anymore what Valve charges it's customers. I can always find games rather cheap from other sources. The fact that they think so little of their customers by not explaining anything irks me even more. :mad:

k00pa
08-28-2009, 04:59 AM
Valve has banned it because of what they do is legally questionable.

Okey, I didn't know that the cd keys would be illegal.

What they are doing wrong then?

mchufnagel
08-28-2009, 05:30 AM
You need to do a web search on them. You'll find out some interesting things.

Akudama89
08-28-2009, 08:31 AM
Well done mods. You've annoyed the original poster. (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/1e1us/announcements/detail/73337266342377718)


^ lol how lame can the OP get?

marekfreak1
08-28-2009, 09:56 AM
I too saw this on the Impulse forums. But at least Stardock had the guts to tell their customers the "what and why" of their actions. Nobody from Valve has done this. So it puts Valve in a worse light than Stardock. To me it doesn't matter anymore what Valve charges it's customers. I can always find games rather cheap from other sources. The fact that they think so little of their customers by not explaining anything irks me even more. :mad:

Exactly! But Steam prices are still completely outrageous compared to other DLC services. The silence is the most infuriating.

Lance_Lake
08-28-2009, 12:00 PM
Okey, I didn't know that the cd keys would be illegal.

What they are doing wrong then?

He's referring to the concept of only buying a license to the game and not the game itself I believe. It is a legal grey area and no one has taken Valve (or anyone else to my knowledge) to court to get it figured out.

So not illegal currently, but may be decided in the future that it is.

Air_Force
08-28-2009, 12:05 PM
I too saw this on the Impulse forums. But at least Stardock had the guts to tell their customers the "what and why" of their actions. Nobody from Valve has done this. So it puts Valve in a worse light than Stardock. To me it doesn't matter anymore what Valve charges it's customers. I can always find games rather cheap from other sources. The fact that they think so little of their customers by not explaining anything irks me even more. :mad:


Yeah +1 for Stardock ,at least they dont act like there isnt any problem and everyone is happy.

mchufnagel
08-28-2009, 02:59 PM
He's referring to the concept of only buying a license to the game and not the game itself I believe. It is a legal grey area and no one has taken Valve (or anyone else to my knowledge) to court to get it figured out.

So not illegal currently, but may be decided in the future that it is.

The really funny thing about that is the publishers say you are only buying a license for their software. Yet when you only buy a license (cd key) they get all po'd about it. I think the real problem is the keys that are sold are bought in countries that sell items at discount prices to deter piracy.

bippukt
08-28-2009, 08:48 PM
The really funny thing about that is the publishers say you are only buying a license for their software. Yet when you only buy a license (cd key) they get all po'd about it. I think the real problem is the keys that are sold are bought in countries that sell items at discount prices to deter piracy.

In that case, it would be illegal because in such countries the game package clearly states that "This game is for sale in XYZ only."

BTW, isn't this thread getting derailed completely?

EDIT: To the below post - I was only referring to the discussion about a website.

Akudama89
08-28-2009, 11:55 PM
In that case, it would be illegal because in such countries the game package clearly states that "This game is for sale in XYZ only."

BTW, isn't this thread getting derailed completely?

this thread got pointless after the 3rd page

Simplex
08-29-2009, 12:45 AM
this thread got pointless after the 3rd page

Then why are you even posting here?

TherapyFailed
08-29-2009, 12:58 AM
The only way this can be fixed is by not buying. If they will not sell nothing publishers will maybe stick their ugly heads together and think about fair prices.

I only buy games on Steam on weekend deals and if i see that price is fair compared to $. If not then no problem...i can wait on another deal or like usually buy the game in store.

RBatty444
08-29-2009, 03:30 AM
Company of Heroes (slovakia online prices)
9,99 (14,99)
Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts
19,99 (20,99)
Frontlines™: Fuel of War™
9,99 (7,99)
Full Spectrum Warrior
9,99 (4,95)
Full Spectrum Warrior: Ten Hammers
9,99 (13,28)
Juiced 2: Hot Import Nights
19,99 (13,99)
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl
19,99 (13.99)
Titan Quest
9,99 (7,99)
Titan Quest - Immortal Throne
19,99 (5,99)
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War - Dark Crusade
9,99 (9)
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War - Gold Edition
14,99 (14,99)
Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War - Soulstorm
14,99 (8.99)
Warhammer® 40,000™: Dawn of War® II
49,99 (21.99)
219,87 (114,16)
99,99
-25,--€
Weekend Deal! sAVE 25%
74,99
its 219,87 € Valve to 114,16 € (Slovakia Online Shop with czech language that all Slovaks understand) my statement doesn´t changed not even for the W.DEEL´s!
Come on VALVE you can do it better! http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651173

Akudama89
08-29-2009, 08:32 AM
Then why are you even posting here?

Simple. :)

mouton
08-29-2009, 08:41 AM
Simple. :)

Ah, trolling for fun, then. Should have said in the beginning, would have allowed us to avoid many misunderstandings.

TF2-Fan01
08-29-2009, 03:10 PM
New games are 35 euros retail. 50 on Steam. Easy choice.

shazb0t
08-29-2009, 03:59 PM
I don't quite follow what he's saying. Oh well, just as long as the Valve Complete Pack stays at $99.99 like it is now in the US, I'm content.

Akudama89
08-29-2009, 05:13 PM
Ah, trolling for fun, then. Should have said in the beginning, would have allowed us to avoid many misunderstandings.

rofl, no not trolling for fun, rather, i didn't care enough to answer the question at hand.

Xamataca
08-30-2009, 02:09 PM
I thank you for your positive contribution

MALICE00
08-31-2009, 04:36 AM
So all of you who buy their games in retail or other services really think you're hurting the companies? Think people! The only thing they care about is selling, not WHERE the sale is coming from... So the best way to let the publishers know how you feel is NOT TO BUY GAMES AT ALL! That's how I'm handling the current issue.

chopstix
08-31-2009, 04:57 AM
So all of you who buy their games in retail or other services really think you're hurting the companies? Think people! The only thing they care about is selling, not WHERE the sale is coming from... So the best way to let the publishers know how you feel is NOT TO BUY GAMES AT ALL! That's how I'm handling the current issue.

It is not a matter of hurting them, but letting them know what is going on. Publishers can easily distinguish which sales come from where as they are easy to track. If they see more games being sold by retail, they will realize there is something wrong with the digital distribution method eventually.

The problem is, gaining enough support. If a few people stop buying here, it won't do much of anything. If a majority of Europeans do, that will no doubt put a dent in things and publishers will reassess how they see and use each market.

MALICE00
08-31-2009, 06:29 AM
It is not a matter of hurting them, but letting them know what is going on. Publishers can easily distinguish which sales come from where as they are easy to track. If they see more games being sold by retail, they will realize there is something wrong with the digital distribution method eventually.

The problem is, gaining enough support. If a few people stop buying here, it won't do much of anything. If a majority of Europeans do, that will no doubt put a dent in things and publishers will reassess how they see and use each market.

And you really think that they care that digital distribution doesn't work? If they make their prices higher from the start, they probably just don't care about digital distribution. Don't get me wrong, I DO want to get fair prices in Europe, but something tells me they just don't care HOW they sell, as long AS they sell... So the only way to let them know they are doing us wrong is by not buying PERIOD.

In the end, they're all companies that try to make as much money as possible. So if the trend says that digital doesn't work (trust me, they won't check WHY it doesn't work), they stick with retail.

I really hope someone will prove me wrong here, but I'm afraid nobody will be able to.

mchufnagel
08-31-2009, 06:34 AM
It is not a matter of hurting them, but letting them know what is going on. Publishers can easily distinguish which sales come from where as they are easy to track. If they see more games being sold by retail, they will realize there is something wrong with the digital distribution method eventually.

The problem is, gaining enough support. If a few people stop buying here, it won't do much of anything. If a majority of Europeans do, that will no doubt put a dent in things and publishers will reassess how they see and use each market.

Right, if a publisher looks at digital sales and see that the NA market is going strong while the European market is weak. And then looks at the European market and see that lower priced b&m stores have robust sales, they probably will get the message. But the problem is getting Europeans to only buy from the "discount" outlets.

I do think that one of the reasons why publishers go with the higher pricing in Europe compared to NA is that NA customers are far more aggressive looking for the lowest price possible. Europe was more regionalized for a long time. People were pretty much forced to buy at the local prices because the option of buying cheaply somewhere else wasn't readily available (and then you'd have to pay the tariff). The publishers haven't caught up with the new reality.

marekfreak1
08-31-2009, 09:21 AM
So all of you who buy their games in retail or other services really think you're hurting the companies? Think people! The only thing they care about is selling, not WHERE the sale is coming from... So the best way to let the publishers know how you feel is NOT TO BUY GAMES AT ALL! That's how I'm handling the current issue.


The problem has always been that Europe in General, besides maybe the UK, have been fairly conservative in making on-line purchases...But now we all know why. Valve/Steam & co. teach us to be conservative. If these fools are unable to realize this, they are losing a very potential market of greedy DLCers.

I would rather buy in retail at the moment to actually get the point across...so much of the actual profits being distributed down the supply chain for retail (to the middle-man of the middles-man's middle man), that maybe just maybe huge sales on the cheaper priced games, will not yield such huge profits (a lot of games in retail are selling real low atm, due to the current financial crisis - gamers are simply spending less...but are able to buy more with these prices) *speculation...

..and what will anybody do with all those unsold boxes of games, nobody will be buying? Feed the scraps to the pigs? I doubt it. That wont happen with DLC.

Some ppl can only see numbers...and not something so blantantly obvious or staring them right in the face. If we need numbers to do the job...lets hope they won't misinterpret them again i.e. $1 = €10 lol

Hopefully publishers will look more toward DLC and promote these services more aggressively especially pricewise and in regional availability (no more NA only plz for absolute peanuts). And why favor retail only just btw? DLC should be given a chance.

As opposed to the US, we Euros have reasonable access to fast broadband connections, compared to the US and our banking system is not altogether primitive. And you can cut out all the other bozos whining about contracts and other BS. DLC has nothing to do with retails. Its an ALTERNATIVE MARKET. Let the retail monkeys deal with their own business model. They dont do or care about DLC. You guys (publishers) need to be a lot more progressive GD!

..but then again you have publishers like Activision and you just know you'll buy their games no matter the price in retail or DLC :cool:

DLC just has so much going for itself to be ignored and I can think of one more way to profit from it, that I cant believe at least one company hasnt even considered it in Europe (at least that I know of).

Stop ignoring us Euros already and fix those godamn redonkulous localized prices. $1 = €1 FFS!!!

MALICE00
08-31-2009, 10:06 AM
I would rather buy in retail at the moment to actually get the point across...so much of the actual profits being distributed down the supply chain for retail (to the middle-man of the middles-man's middle man), that maybe just maybe huge sales on the cheaper priced games, will not yield such huge profits (a lot of games in retail are selling real low atm, due to the current financial crisis - gamers are simply spending less...but are able to buy more with these prices) *speculation...

And what point would that be? That we still don't want to buy DLC? I hope they get the point like you intend them to get it, but I'm afraid they simply will think that we Europeans are still not ready for DLC... Not that we think it's too expensive. Like I said before, I really hope that I'm wrong, but I'm afraid I'm not.

Maybe my solution of not buying at all doesn't even help... They'll probably think we Europeans stopped playing altogether, companies aren't really smart when it comes to checking their customer-base... As we can see with this whole thread!

TherapyFailed
08-31-2009, 10:56 AM
As long as they sell games for 60€ and people buy them im afraid there is no reason for them to lower those prices. When and only when noone will buy them they will lower prices because this will be the only way they will sell something.

I also understand all those pirates. If the price is too high you can always get a game for free. Now publishers have a choice - they can whine how the sales are low and curse pirates or they can provide cheaper prices and people will buy them. I cannot say that everyone will buy them, but sales would be sure higher if games were cheaper.

I only buy games that are cheaper than around 30€. This is my upper limit since my paycheck is way too low to go crazy for 50-60€ games. If i recall correctly the only exception was L4D (which was a huge mistake), but that was because i was hoping for totally different support from developers.

On Steam i only buy games that are on sales, but even then i check if the price is 1€=1$. If it is then i usually pass the deal.

Wulfklaue
08-31-2009, 02:43 PM
As long as they sell games for 60€ and people buy them im afraid there is no reason for them to lower those prices. When and only when noone will buy them they will lower prices because this will be the only way they will sell something.

Problem is, this is assuming that the market stays the same.

If you have 500.000 sold games x at 40€, and you have 500.000 sold games at 60€. Sure. It will look like you just made a nice profit.

But, we are not comparing game x, to game x, with the same timescale, customers, target group, marketing etc.

We are comparing the new games y, z, a, ... with the new pricing structure. So, while game y, z, a, ... can all sell well. Its also possible that those games are selling below there potential on your platform ( Steam ). The problem is, you don't know for sure.

Its like working the stock market. Sure, you can try to predict whats going to happen, but many variables can trow of any calculation over night, and make you a lot off money, or lose you a lot off money.

So, even if sales are down, how do they know its down because off the price? O look, they introduced this new pricing, strait into the run up off the bad economy.

Are the sales bad? Yes or No?

Yes? Maybe its the price? Or maybe its just people buying less, cutting back on expenses...

No? Good. Or, maybe those titles are in fact selling below there potential, because of the higher prices.

We can yell & hope that the Valve wakes up & smells the coffee. But just maybe even if many people boycot Steam. It might not even be noticeable, and attributed to the bad economy? And one must add, the perfect timing for this change.

It allowed Valve to instantly gain a almost 30% extra profit on there titles ( going up to insain 500% levels by now ). Excellent way to fake extra income for the books. And if there is loss in market share, well .. we can always blame it on the bad economy ;)

To be honest, i'm still waiting for my answer on that little mail ( valve staff member email ). Its been a few days now, and it looks like it has gone the way of the dodo.

So, unless that person is on holiday... Looks like another "delete". I can hear the screams off all those billion of emails each day, as they get thrown into digital purgatory ;)

Firefun
09-01-2009, 12:41 AM
Cheaper games = more sold. But as Valve said: They are adjusting the prices to hit the sweet spot, where they make the most revenue. This translates into somewhat moderate price but still a high amount of copies sold.

marekfreak1
09-01-2009, 02:03 AM
Cheaper games = more sold. But as Valve said: They are adjusting the prices to hit the sweet spot, where they make the most revenue. This translates into somewhat moderate price but still a high amount of copies sold.

I seriously doubt it. Maybe for the NA market..not for the European region. And trust me it ain't so sweet..games on Steam are 50% to 300% more expensive than in retail and compared other DLC services for us Euros.

briankearon666
09-01-2009, 02:47 AM
Cheaper games = more sold. But as Valve said: They are adjusting the prices to hit the sweet spot, where they make the most revenue. This translates into somewhat moderate price but still a high amount of copies sold.

well.. how do you explain the high prices now, over eight months down the line? Where are these moderate prices you are talking bout? surely they would have implimented those cheap-moderate prices.

Almost every game i see on Steam is dearer than my local/online retailer. Haven't bought my games from steam in a long time and wont at these prices

Firefun
09-01-2009, 08:41 AM
I seriously doubt it. Maybe for the NA market..not for the European region. And trust me it ain't so sweet..games on Steam are 50% to 300% more expensive than in retail and compared other DLC services for us Euros.

well.. how do you explain the high prices now, over eight months down the line? Where are these moderate prices you are talking bout? surely they would have implimented those cheap-moderate prices.

Almost every game i see on Steam is dearer than my local/online retailer. Haven't bought my games from steam in a long time and wont at these prices

Sry if i sounded anti EU. But you two misunderstood me. :p Im fully aware of the prices as i life in Europe tier-1. I want cheaper prices for EU myself.

Valve is trying to hit the sweet spot for themself, to make the most revenue. And in my mind that translates into moderate prices where they still sell as much as possible. Thats why i wrote what i wrote. But did i say that this "sweet spot" is what we have now? no.. cause right now they are still milking us europeans. I dunno, but in there mind europeans must be somewhat rich?

worse1
09-01-2009, 09:41 AM
$1 = €1 is still nonsense.

ZEdDJ
09-01-2009, 10:04 AM
I hope that all of you people that are complaining about unfair steam prices in Europe (I totally agree even though I don't live in Europe) are NOT BUYING from Steam anyway. If you complain and then next day buy a game from Steam you can be sure that nothing wiil change since Valve and game publishers are making tons of profits.

I would advise you to always buy retail if you can and it's cheaper and even if the prices are the same on Steam as retail I would still go with retail if I were you.

cryptodan
09-01-2009, 10:24 AM
If I was everyone in here do not buy any games offered on Steam in any other matter as well.

Simplex
09-02-2009, 12:47 AM
Even better - buy games in retail and if possible activate them on steam to burden steam servers for free ;)

I did that with Prey - I bough a boxed game on sale for 3€ and activated on steam.

Akudama89
09-02-2009, 12:55 AM
Even better - buy games in retail and if possible activate them on steam to burden steam servers for free ;)

I did that with Prey - I bough a boxed game on sale for 3€ and activated on steam.

yeah...that doesn't even hurt valve, due to the fact that every game that is activated on steam that is not a valve game, has the developers/publishers give valve a certain amount of money, with the exception of, ofcourse, valve games, but again, they still get money....

bippukt
09-02-2009, 03:16 AM
Yes, they are not in it for social service. Their cut would be similar to the normal Steam games IMO.

-ReuF-
09-02-2009, 03:23 AM
I hope that all of you people that are complaining about unfair steam prices in Europe (I totally agree even though I don't live in Europe) are NOT BUYING from Steam anyway. If you complain and then next day buy a game from Steam you can be sure that nothing wiil change since Valve and game publishers are making tons of profits.

That's axactly what I do. Just compare the prices and buy cheapest. As long as some Europeans are buying the overpriced games at Steam, they will not change their prices in the EU zone at all...

Sasquatchsliper
09-02-2009, 08:18 AM
That's axactly what I do. Just compare the prices and buy cheapest. As long as some Europeans are buying the overpriced games at Steam, they will not change their prices in the EU zone at all...The problem is that Steam boycotters are a molecular minority : there's more than 20 millions Steam accounts, let's say there's only 10 millions buying on Steam store, at best we're 100k people not agreeing with the "$1 = €1" thing (how many are really boycotting ? not more than 50%), it's just 1% (or 0.5% true boycotters) of active accounts.

Steam sales growth in June 2009 compared to June 2008 ?

=> +97%.

ho my gosh, maybe it could have been 98%, but we fought them well, VICTORY !


Let's face it, Steam was for gamer, now it's for mainstream.

When did this happened ?
- December 17, 2008 : European Local Currency Available (http://store.steampowered.com/news/2110/)
- December 22, 2008 : Steam Launches EA Titles Across Europe (http://store.steampowered.com/news/2122/)

RMJ
09-02-2009, 08:33 AM
The sales could have been alot bigger, because its stupid to settle, and its tobad they dont realize how much for they could sell if they had better pricing on steam, not only will they sell more games, but they will get more users on steam, tbh 20million isnt that impressive.

Steam needs to get its act togther if it wanna survive, they are alot and more coming alternatives, that really try and ensure its user base better pricing, Valve just doesnt seem to care squat, they need to get their act togther, show a bit of balls.

dBeta
09-02-2009, 09:42 AM
Frankly, if you can buy a game in a shop for half the price Steam is selling it in the UK, there's a problem.

Simplex
09-02-2009, 02:04 PM
yeah...that doesn't even hurt valve, due to the fact that every game that is activated on steam that is not a valve game, has the developers/publishers give valve a certain amount of money, with the exception of, ofcourse, valve games, but again, they still get money....

Damn, did not know that.

Wulfklaue
09-02-2009, 02:29 PM
Damn, did not know that.

Did you not notice how many times in the past that Valve games get "feature" promotions / weekend deals in the past. ;) It was rather clear that they pushed there own games in front off other publishers games for a reason. But that was the old Weekend deal system ( where you had a game or two during the weekend ).

While on the other games, they get 30 or 40% or something like that.

These days ... well ... Every day is a deal day. To be honest, they have cheapened the entire "deal" system up to the point, that i don't care to even look at them anymore.

In the past, the dollar time, a weekend deal was a "DEAL". You where able to pick up games cheaper then store prices. But these days ... what do we have... A bunch off B-brand, or unknown titles in permanent "deal", and some A-brand titles, that get a price cut, that might level them to store prices ( or still be more expensive ).

After all this time, even the steam client is ... getting old. It took them this long, to add a verified email system, to try & limit some off the account hijackings. There to be honest, is little innovation left from Valve.

You know, i noticed it today, when somebody posted that in a other topic, how much Valve has stopped being a industry leader, and became a clogged up machine, that seems to live for the most part, on its old titles.

And the few new ones... well, we all know the L4D & L4D2 joke, don't we. And the TF2 problems etc ;) And then we get back to the price problem.

To be honest ... if somebody where to offer me 450€ for my account, i probably sell it on the spot. Yea ... thats how little my client confidants has become. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, to even looking at that Steam icon these days, to that extend, that the games lose all there "flavor", and well, why play when you get depressed just thinking about all this price problem ( and the price popup's / first tab "deals" don't exactly help ).

And yes... Still no reply from our friends at Valve. Looks like contacting a director directly ( info provided by the Steam Support ) has the same responds as most people's there mails. Nothing. Zip...

RMJ
09-02-2009, 04:32 PM
Yeah, it is a shame, but it is what happens when a company becomes to big, they become careless, and ignorent, they dont care squat about their fans. Maybe in time Valve will learn, but i must admit, im becoming more and more unsure how long Steam will last. because it is getting old, no new and improve features.

They dont even have the guts to come here and explain, that really says it all. When you read between the lines.

Metro
09-02-2009, 05:14 PM
It's always going to be problematic when a developer/publisher provides a storefront that sells third party titles as opposed to a neutral website/download service. That said, the simple solution is to go elsewhere: there are no shortage of alternatives. I don't own many titles on Steam and the ones I do are either Valve titles or were excessively cheap/on sale.

In the next few years Blizzard will be revamping Battle.net to resemble Steam in terms of an online community with chat functions similar to the overlay between multiple platforms. The catch, I'm sure, will be that only Blizzard titles will be available and if they do offer third party titles I'm sure pricing will be less than ideal.

In short: if you are unhappy with pricing, take your business elsewhere and create a more competitive marketplace. Valve is unlikely to react to off color comments on their forums as opposed to actual trends in sales.

mhz
09-03-2009, 12:33 AM
Hmm. Tier 3 prices are now the same as Tier 2 (for valve games)
Looks like too many people from tier3 were BUYING games.

F3nya
09-03-2009, 02:32 PM
Wow, the euro tier pricing got changed again a little.
The Tier 3 countries were merged with the Tier 2 countries, thus getting their prices raised.

Can't Valve make up their mind?
They should've lowered the Tier 1 prices, not raising it again for someone.

TF2-Fan01
09-04-2009, 04:23 PM
Heads up ..

Champions Online
Steam: 50 euro
Retail: 35-40 euro (including shipping).

brotrrwinner
09-05-2009, 12:01 PM
Wow, the euro tier pricing got changed again a little.
The Tier 3 countries were merged with the Tier 2 countries, thus getting their prices raised.

Can't Valve make up their mind?
They should've lowered the Tier 1 prices, not raising it again for someone.

They just keep on buttraping us

Zodiac+
09-05-2009, 12:25 PM
They just keep on buttraping us

How the hell did you get -29 rep? :eek:

epsylon_Z1
09-05-2009, 12:28 PM
How the hell did you get -29 rep? :eek:that's a good question

bippukt
09-05-2009, 12:52 PM
that's a good question

He got smacked by a moderator!

icefiresr
09-05-2009, 02:07 PM
seriously... this whole thread has become a joke, just do it as i did - give your account to someone else for free or just sold it for a very good price somewhere.

i am personally happy that i don´t have to see that stupid steam icon anymore :rolleyes:

well to be honest, there were some good times with this distribution system, but it´s more a pile full of BS nowadays.

Dr. Ha
09-05-2009, 02:39 PM
seriously... this whole thread has become a joke, just do it as i did - give your account to someone else for free or just sold it for a very good price somewhere.

i am personally happy that i don´t have to see that stupid steam icon anymore :rolleyes:

well to be honest, there were some good times with this distribution system, but it´s more a pile full of BS nowadays.

Thanks for breaking the SSA, don't come back!

Nekomancer
09-05-2009, 03:17 PM
seriously... this whole thread has become a joke, just do it as i did - give your account to someone else for free or just sold it for a very good price somewhere.

Both would violate the Steam Subscriber Agreement which leads to a disabled account.

Sasquatchsliper
09-05-2009, 05:03 PM
Yeah, it is a shame, but it is what happens when a company becomes to big, they become careless, and ignorent, they dont care squat about their fans.

Maybe in time Valve will learn, but i must admit, im becoming more and more unsure how long Steam will last. because it is getting old, no new and improve features.

They dont even have the guts to come here and explain, that really says it all. When you read between the lines.interesting post,
I remember reading that in 2008 there was only 13 employees working on Steam, I hope that they hired a much bigger team. Could it be one of the reason ?

It's always the same problem, small companies need to grow very fast and most fail in doing it (and then crash).
Why Steam staff never came here and explained ? maybe they are just not enought at all to read everythings, make meetings and decide what to answer (because it's a very important question, european prices AND there is an EA Games deal behind this), they think it's a minor problem.

BUT, I don't really believe in the "too-small-team" bs I just said, well not 100% at least.

Steam just don't want to talk about it *imo* for several reasons :

it's Europe. They don't even know where we are on a world map. They didn't even knew not all Europe countries were using euro :rolleyes:

EA deal.
EA told them "my retail prices (1€ = $1) or you'll never see my games on your store" (keep in mind EA had its own -♥♥♥♥ty- online store, they could have just boycott Steam by copying it)

Gamers were the majority, they became a minority.
You can't imagine how many people are now buying on Steam, the people who previously were buying their game at the mall/supermarket without even checking reviews nor checking prices in different stores, these people are spending their gaming budget on Steam. And they are millions.
It's even got worst when EA came in, with all the mainstream EA games.

=> They lost X gamers (people reading reviews and comparing prices), they won Y "customers" (random people choosing games by picking them on the shelf (virtual or not)). X budget < Y budget = gamers lost.

Companies are expected to make money, as much as they can.
If they don't (or just make a few money), investors go away and publishers/dev/producer don't trust them and choose other platforms.
And Valve was a "small" videogame studio, to run Steam they hired a director/CEO who know only the business rule : make as much money as you can in the shortest time. If they didn't hired someone like that, their Steam director/boss just applied that business model to Steam : maximize profit in the shortest time-frame.


There's other digital distrib platform ? You're talking about competition in economics ?
=> It needs perfect information for all economic actors, and *ho-god* you see that's not the reality at all in the videogame sector.

Many games are way cheaper in retail or on amazon.co.uk for many europeans. Did it stopped most europeans consumers from buying on Steam ? no.
or look at L4D2 boycott, 99% of people coming in the chatroom were asking "Why you boycott a sequel ? there's a lot of new cool features, why boycotting them ?", these people didn't knew about Valve promises and announcements at all.

To win this information "war", we need (needed ?) to have medias support and public protest everywhere.
Medias ?
=> all defending the pure Valve studios against the bad vilains we are, it's trendy and cool to defend a dev studio that went indie and made Steam, TF2 and L4D. Criticism ? later...
Public protest ?
=> we're talking about a digital store, so it would work better on the internet, but our target is not really the internet (people checking internet for their games), and no one is really that motivated. + Valve reputation is strong (btw L4D2 was a big mistake imo, they lost a lot to gain a few, not very smart).

The 1998-2004 Valve is dead and buried, it will NEVER come back. Now go buy your games elsewhere (ex : indie devs website or GoG) and find new awesome devs companies :)

wontolla
09-07-2009, 05:05 AM
Did you not notice how many times in the past that Valve games get "feature" promotions / weekend deals in the past. ;) It was rather clear that they pushed there own games in front off other publishers games for a reason. But that was the old Weekend deal system ( where you had a game or two during the weekend ).

While on the other games, they get 30 or 40% or something like that.

These days ... well ... Every day is a deal day. To be honest, they have cheapened the entire "deal" system up to the point, that i don't care to even look at them anymore.

In the past, the dollar time, a weekend deal was a "DEAL". You where able to pick up games cheaper then store prices. But these days ... what do we have... A bunch off B-brand, or unknown titles in permanent "deal", and some A-brand titles, that get a price cut, that might level them to store prices ( or still be more expensive ).

After all this time, even the steam client is ... getting old. It took them this long, to add a verified email system, to try & limit some off the account hijackings. There to be honest, is little innovation left from Valve.

You know, i noticed it today, when somebody posted that in a other topic, how much Valve has stopped being a industry leader, and became a clogged up machine, that seems to live for the most part, on its old titles.

And the few new ones... well, we all know the L4D & L4D2 joke, don't we. And the TF2 problems etc ;) And then we get back to the price problem.

To be honest ... if somebody where to offer me 450€ for my account, i probably sell it on the spot. Yea ... thats how little my client confidants has become. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, to even looking at that Steam icon these days, to that extend, that the games lose all there "flavor", and well, why play when you get depressed just thinking about all this price problem ( and the price popup's / first tab "deals" don't exactly help ).

And yes... Still no reply from our friends at Valve. Looks like contacting a director directly ( info provided by the Steam Support ) has the same responds as most people's there mails. Nothing. Zip...

I expect you get the email answer soon (LOL). I really expect someone with lots of time to spare an a good lawyer to change the SSA.

Wulfklaue
09-07-2009, 05:19 AM
I expect you get the email answer soon (LOL). I really expect someone with lots of time to spare an a good lawyer to change the SSA.

Did i not tell anybody. I got a answer. Valve is going to drop the EU prices by 80%, fix all the problem with the Steam Client, allow the sale off your ( second hand ) games, will allow double games from packs to be gifted, ...

...
...

And then i wake up. And realize its all a dream. *lol*

So yea. The answer has been very clear. None at all.

And even a good lawyer will get only a limited effect trying to take on the SSA. They will change the SSA to something else ( different words ), but it will still have the same effect.

Vir
09-08-2009, 10:51 AM
Dollar hits low for year as gold tops $1,000
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Dollar-hits-low-for-year-as-apf-3658622448.html?x=0&.v=1

Its just getting worse..

Teraku
09-08-2009, 01:46 PM
Valve knows it's a rip off, but still they insist it's normal. ♥♥♥♥ing ♥♥♥♥♥♥bags. First, I thought valve was honest, but I think they fused with EA, because this is an even worse ripoff than EA can ever dream to pull off.

European people pay 25% more than they should. And all countries have VAT, too. Even if there is no VAT. So the money just goes into gabe's fat ♥♥♥♥.

This is the last time I bought something on steam.

Zeppelid
09-08-2009, 03:08 PM
Valve knows it's a rip off, but still they insist it's normal. ♥♥♥♥ing ♥♥♥♥♥♥bags. First, I thought valve was honest, but I think they fused with EA, because this is an even worse ripoff than EA can ever dream to pull off.

European people pay 25% more than they should. And all countries have VAT, too. Even if there is no VAT. So the money just goes into gabe's fat ♥♥♥♥.

This is the last time I bought something on steam.

VAT is included in the price.

mouton
09-08-2009, 03:12 PM
VAT is included in the price.
I think he refers to the fact that with price being the same in VAT and no VAT countries, Valve basically pockets the VAT sum in the non-VAT countries. It is all legit, of course, as technically the price is automatically higher.

Akiha
09-08-2009, 10:09 PM
I think he refers to the fact that with price being the same in VAT and no VAT countries, Valve basically pockets the VAT sum in the non-VAT countries. It is all legit, of course, as technically the price is automatically higher.
And of course VAT is anywhere from 5...25% depending on the countries that do have it, so Valve is pocketing extra money in both cases, VAT or not.

Wulfklaue
09-09-2009, 03:02 AM
European people pay 25% more than they should. And all countries have VAT, too. Even if there is no VAT. So the money just goes into gabe's fat

Technically Valve is making European people pay between 30% to 500% more + the extra 25%? VAT in those EU countries with no VAT on digital products.

Its not just 25% anymore. It was 25% 8 months ago, with the first 1$=1€ conversion, but with the constant price drops on retail products ( and even Steam US/UK ), and Valve keeping the European game prices at premium "new" prices, this creates the major extra gap.

Akudama89
09-09-2009, 12:04 PM
When will people learn it's not valve/steam unless it's a valve/steam product? people are so ignorant...

Sputnik53
09-09-2009, 12:26 PM
When will people learn it's not valve/steam unless it's a valve/steam product? people are so ignorant...
When will you realize it wasn't always like this when all prizes where in $?

Dumbass.

Toto pectore
09-09-2009, 12:31 PM
When one thing is cheaper in one shop and expensive in other shop, will you blame the expensive shop or the supplier/manufacturer/publisher why is it so expensive? It's not their fault when they can't deal better terms?

Sputnik53
09-09-2009, 12:34 PM
When one thing is cheaper in one shop and expensive in other shop, will you blame the expensive shop or the supplier/manufacturer/publisher why is it so expensive? It's not their fault when they can't deal better terms?
Another dumbass.

Everything was fine when everyone was paying in $, then they ruined it.

Toto pectore
09-09-2009, 12:46 PM
Maybe we didn't understand each other, maybe we have different opinion on this thing or maybe we are both talking about something else, but at least I'm have the dignity not to call everyone dumbass.

mouton
09-09-2009, 12:47 PM
It's not their fault when they can't deal better terms?
Yes it is. And old argument - the Valve's own game prices jumped too with the euro change thus suggesting that Valve didn't dislike the idea.

Wulfklaue
09-09-2009, 12:50 PM
When will people learn it's not valve/steam unless it's a valve/steam product? people are so ignorant...

When one thing is cheaper in one shop and expensive in other shop, will you blame the expensive shop or the supplier/manufacturer/publisher why is it so expensive? It's not their fault when they can't deal better terms?

Lets provide a more constructive answer then the questions them selfs.

Its interesting to put the blame in the customers footsteps, by calling them "ignorant", when its those customers, that are trying to get more information from Valve, for the last 8 months.

Then let my put a question back to you gentlemen.

If its all the Publishers, or Valve's inability to get a better price, how come that other digital services like D2D, GOG, etc are able to get more competitive prices ( prices, that are more to retail level ).

Why is it that those services are able to undercut Steam, sometimes by 50% ( without a weekend deal or other promotion? ).

Is Valve populated by incompetent staff, that is unable to get a good deal from the Publishers? Given the size, and turnout that Steam has, its in the position to actually put pressure on Publishers.

The reason is probable a mix off several factors.
- Greed?
The ability to get a "free" 20% extra + all the extra money from the none Tax countries.
- Incompetents?
Won't be the first time, that somebody thinks they are doing something good, while angering the customers.
- Order from above
Seeing how every communication has been blacklisted, clearly shows that somebody told there personal to keep there mouths closed.
- Understaffed?
Resulting in late price updates.
- Bureaucracy?
Resulting in again in inability to lower the game prices over time.
- Bonus system?
Like the banks, if some people are payed with bonus systems, its possible that they are deliberately keeping the prices high, to rank in bonuses. Until the sale drop is to bad, and then those people jump ship for the next "deal".

There are a lot off possible answers, yet, i don't see any that require the customers to be called "ignorant".

Sputnik53
09-09-2009, 12:50 PM
Maybe we didn't understand each other, maybe we have different opinion on this thing or maybe we are both talking about something else, but at least I'm have the dignity not to call everyone dumbass.
Well perhaps you haven't paid enough for games other people pay much less?

And all this because they live somewhere else. :/

Simplex
09-10-2009, 12:34 AM
When will you realize it wasn't always like this when all prizes where in $?

Dumbass.

Don't elevate him. He's not a dumbass, he's just your ordinary troll ;)

DJ_Professor_K
09-10-2009, 07:51 AM
Meh, this still going huh?

Add 1 more:
Mini Ninjas $29.99 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35000/?cc=us) vs 39.99€ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35000/?cc=pt) (french are lucky: 29.99€ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35000/?cc=fr))

chopstix
09-10-2009, 08:02 AM
The reason is probable a mix off several factors.
- Greed?
The ability to get a "free" 20% extra + all the extra money from the none Tax countries.
- Incompetents?
Won't be the first time, that somebody thinks they are doing something good, while angering the customers.
- Order from above
Seeing how every communication has been blacklisted, clearly shows that somebody told there personal to keep there mouths closed.
- Understaffed?
Resulting in late price updates.
- Bureaucracy?
Resulting in again in inability to lower the game prices over time.
- Bonus system?
Like the banks, if some people are payed with bonus systems, its possible that they are deliberately keeping the prices high, to rank in bonuses. Until the sale drop is to bad, and then those people jump ship for the next "deal".

There are a lot off possible answers, yet, i don't see any that require the customers to be called "ignorant".

If you are curious about the price differences between each service, one factor I would imagine is the percentage that Steam takes from each sale compared to others. While I don't believe this to be the sole reason for price variation, it no doubt helps.


Steam takes approximately 40% of each sale, although some publishers have claimed special contracts.
Impulse takes 30% of each sale, & offers 15% profit from any game bought by customers they attract to the service
Gamersgate typically takes 30%
Unable to find official D2D percentages.


So one reason for higher prices in comparison to other services is that they generally take a much higher percentage.

Akudama89
09-10-2009, 09:06 AM
- Understaffed?
Resulting in late price updates.


Except for, you know, the whole fact that it's up to the developers/publishers to change the prices of their games

ignorance is a bliss, isn't it?

MALICE00
09-10-2009, 11:05 AM
OK, so this is just plain rude:

We've jumped ahead to the weekend early to give you the critically acclaimed Indie Hit BRAID for just 5 bucks!

If it says 5 BUCKS, then it should be 5 BUCKS, not €4,49!

fraggles
09-10-2009, 11:17 AM
Am I understanding this correct:

#Valve sells me a game for 10 currency.
#The retail store sells me the same game for 8 currency AND I get benefits like -real- customer support.

Why would I want to buy anything else through Steam ever again, Valve? Why are you killing your own buisness :confused:

Euros are NOT Dollars

parrot of doom
09-10-2009, 11:25 AM
If you're not happy with the price on Steam, don't pay it.

In business, you charge the market value for your product or service. It's that simple.

briankearon666
09-10-2009, 12:03 PM
If you're not happy with the price on Steam, don't pay it.

In business, you charge the market value for your product or service. It's that simple.

But how do you explain the market value doubling overnight? like thay did when they changed over to the Euro pricing strcture? you're arguement is flawed and not very well thought out

fraggles
09-10-2009, 01:17 PM
If you're not happy with the price on Steam, don't pay it.

In business, you charge the market value for your product or service. It's that simple.

The price for Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic listed on steam right now: 8,99€/9.99$
For simplification, say it's 9€ and 10$. But in REAL LIFE 1$ is something like 0.6€, so you would pay 6€. 6, not 9!

Imagine going to a shop where you can purchase with both EUROS and USD, but if you choose to pay with EUROS everything costs 20-30% more!!!!!!! Now also imagine this store says that all who are born in europe are to pay only with euros.. Further more, those 20-30% extra they charge you, where do that go? They use it to build better roads and houses for all those not born in Europe. Also, maybe they put some of it into weapon industry and invade a few countries nearby Europe or something. What do you call that?? MARKET VALUE?!? give me a break

Simplex
09-11-2009, 12:16 AM
In business, you charge the market value for your product or service. It's that simple.


Thanks a lot for the economy lesson, professor.

If the world is as perfect as you (falsely) believe, then why European Commission had to force GSM operators to lower their rip-off roaming charges?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_on_roaming_charges_within_the_European_ Union

According to the parrot of doom they were charging "market value", right? WRONG! They were ripping people of as much as they could until EC finally intervened.
Same with steam (only EC did not intervene [yet] ;) )

The European Commission had repeatedly urged mobile operators to lower the charges for using mobile phones abroad. But they remained on average four times more expensive than domestic mobile phone calls. To highlight the continuing problem, the Commission launched a consumer website on roaming tariffs in October 2005. It exposed roaming prices of up to 12 euros for a 4-minute call. As even this did not change the pricing behaviour of mobile operators, the Commission proposed to intervene by regulating. The proposal for a regulation to lower international roaming charges within the EU was published by the Commission in July 2006.
(...)
The Commission, together with the National Regulatory Authorities will monitor the development of the prices. If normal market conditions have been established in the market for roaming calls, the regulation is meant to expire in three years from 2007 (30 June 2010). However, the Commission can also propose to continue to regulate the roaming market, if normal market conditions are not working yet.

ZOMG! Teh free market is not working perfectly! How is that even possible?

parrot of doom
09-11-2009, 10:05 AM
But how do you explain the market value doubling overnight? like thay did when they changed over to the Euro pricing strcture? you're arguement is flawed and not very well thought out

The market value is whatever people are prepared to pay. I presume you wouldn't be complaining if the price had dropped by the same percentage as it rose.

If you don't like it, don't pay it.

parrot of doom
09-11-2009, 10:07 AM
Imagine going to a shop where you can purchase with both EUROS and USD, but if you choose to pay with EUROS everything costs 20-30% more!!!!!!! Now also imagine this store says that all who are born in europe are to pay only with euros.. Further more, those 20-30% extra they charge you, where do that go? They use it to build better roads and houses for all those not born in Europe. Also, maybe they put some of it into weapon industry and invade a few countries nearby Europe or something. What do you call that?? MARKET VALUE?!? give me a break

You can't buy things in $ on Steam if you're not actually in a country that uses $.

I can buy equipment in the US for 2/3 the price it costs in the EU. I don't complain about it, I just accept it, and do my best to get around it.

parrot of doom
09-11-2009, 10:10 AM
Thanks a lot for the economy lesson, professor.

I'm not a professor, but I have been self-employed for all of my working life. I price my services accordingly.

If the world is as perfect as you (falsely) believe, then why European Commission had to force GSM operators to lower their rip-off roaming charges?

Perhaps because the EU felt that the prices were a barrier to free trade, and were harming other businesses. I don't see how you can compare an essential service to a computer game.

According to the parrot of doom they were charging "market value", right? WRONG! They were ripping people of as much as they could until EC finally intervened.
Same with steam (only EC did not intervene [yet] ;) )

You obviously don't understand what a market value is. They were charging what people were prepared to pay, and pay they did.

Xamataca
09-11-2009, 02:22 PM
Wulfklaue summarizes the whole valve's bad move and the prize fiasco for europeans customers pretty well every time he writes. Thank you for your constructive, well-mannered and wise posts.

I've stated (a hundred of pages before) that the only pressure action we got is NOT Buying in STEAM.
Nothing, nada.
I'm sticking to this principle since last year. Don't know for the rest of us...

If europeans STILL BUY in steam massively (and face it, we'll never know the real numbers) there is not a single reason for Valve to change their "business" decision.

Wulfklaue
09-11-2009, 02:23 PM
I can buy equipment in the US for 2/3 the price it costs in the EU. I don't complain about it, I just accept it, and do my best to get around it.

True, but as it has been stated in the thread before ( a dozen times ).

Unlike your example, Steam is a complete package service. The basic idea about Steam, is to be able to have everything, in one ready, handy system.

And when people already have all there ducks in one basket, and are faced with price increases from 30 to 500% ( over time ).

If people don't complain, nothing will get done. If the road next to your home is in a bad condition, and you take a other road, sure. That also works. But it will not get your road fixed. Thats where the complaining, and whining comes in handy. ;)

In reality, we ( you, me, etc ) are the customers that know how much we are getting ripped off in general by company's.

We know that company's release products in the US for xxx dollar, and use the exact same amount, in euro's, for no good reason ( making the product way more expensive ).

We also know that US citizens in general get way better discounts, then what the same company offers to the Europeans.

We also know how much they try to limit us from buying products in the US, and letting them be shipped to the EU. Check any major US site, and unless you are in the Army, and stationed here, forget about getting those way cheaper US goods over here ( unless you have a few shortcuts, like somebody who lives in the US ).

Steam is just a extension to all this, but, the fact that they suddenly changed the rules on people, and started with the 1$=1€, a lack off communication, and the refusal to lower prices especially on the EU price list, over time ( resulting in those 400 a 500% price differences with retail ).

In reality, this probably has no use at all. But if this constant complains bothers at leased one person at Valve, its a start ;)

fraggles
09-11-2009, 04:30 PM
You can't buy things in $ on Steam if you're not actually in a country that uses $.

Yeah, like Canada. They gotta use CAD and not USD!:eek:
Really one would think Valve should be more interested in earning pay through honourable and fair trade, rather than creating imaginary currency rates and attempting to blindfold the public no?

PrincessLinda
09-11-2009, 06:59 PM
Meh, this still going huh?

Add 1 more:
Mini Ninjas $29.99 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35000/?cc=us) vs 39.99€ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35000/?cc=pt) (french are lucky: 29.99€ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35000/?cc=fr))

US: $29.99
UK: £29.99 (67% higher)
EU: 39,99€ (95% higher)

:) Well i stop buying stuff from steam atleast its not worth it i rather get a dvd and manual cheaper in store then this.
It makes no sense making a dvd and print a manual ship it over the ocean then to the store then it cost less then a digital copy online where you get no dvd or manual. I guess im paying for the download trafic.
So yea steam have lost its meaning

Edit: Also i get to meet that cute boy in the game shop!!!!!

bippukt
09-11-2009, 09:20 PM
US: $29.99
UK: £29.99 (67% higher)
EU: 39,99€ (95% higher)

Apart from the Euro-Dollar "equality", why is the price 39.99 instead of 29.99 Euros? Why are you Europeans getting ripped off like this?

Toto pectore
09-11-2009, 10:03 PM
They think we like it or something... :D Maybe some kind of revenge on colonization empires who sucked everything from their colonies.

Zodiac+
09-11-2009, 11:28 PM
My God, this really takes the p iss, just seen Resident Evil 5 advertised for £26.99 on steam, yet the retail version is £17.99!

You guys really make it hard for me to decide.../sarcasm off.

Simplex
09-12-2009, 02:48 AM
You obviously don't understand what a market value is. They were charging what people were prepared to pay, and pay they did.

You obviously have no idea what an oligopoly is, or price fixing, for that matter.

spawn12345
09-12-2009, 03:23 AM
Another proof that the devs dont have complete control of the prices.

From the braids dev blog:

I am not sure what the price is in Euros but the price in Pounds looks correct. The ratios were picked back in April based on what the Dollar/Euro/Pound exchange rates were at that time. They are signed into a contract and it would be a big hassle to change it all the time, so Valve just goes with what was there.

http://braid-game.com/news/?p=626#comments

mouton
09-12-2009, 03:46 AM
I've stated (a hundred of pages before) that the only pressure action we got is NOT Buying in STEAM.
Nothing, nada.
I'm sticking to this principle since last year. Don't know for the rest of us...
Why nothing? I just bought Braid for 4,5 euro. I bought Bioshock for 5 euro last Christmas. If the price happens to be reasonable, despite the general insanity, then why not? Additionally, in the lower end of prices, it really stops having much difference what currency it is.

Besides, it sends a signal to Valve: the client is there, buying stuff, but for some reason he stays away from 50 euro games. Wonder why?

StingingVelvet
09-12-2009, 04:48 AM
Another proof that the devs dont have complete control of the prices.

From the braids dev blog:



http://braid-game.com/news/?p=626#comments

That doesn't prove what you think it proves.

That just shows these things are agreed on in contracts with publishers, as many people have said over the course of this thread. He is simply saying it is a hassle to modify the contract and price everytime the market changes, so Valve just keeps using the previously agreed upon amount.

I'm surprised this thread is still going. It says a lot about how awesome Steam is that you guys keep complaining about this, since the normal reaction to a store charging too much is to just say goodbye and use another store.

impar
09-12-2009, 05:01 AM
Greetings!
... since the normal reaction to a store charging too much is to just say goodbye and use another store.
That is impossible to happen with Steam.
Unless you want to buy my Steam Account, I am stuck with the games I bought before the Ripoff and with the new ones (bought retail) that need Steam.

Did you know I bought the special edition of ETW at retail for less 15€ than the normal edition of ETW at Steam, when the game was released?

Wulfklaue
09-12-2009, 05:20 AM
Why nothing? I just bought Braid for 4,5 euro. I bought Bioshock for 5 euro last Christmas. If the price happens to be reasonable, despite the general insanity, then why not? Additionally, in the lower end of prices, it really stops having much difference what currency it is.

Besides, it sends a signal to Valve: the client is there, buying stuff, but for some reason he stays away from 50 euro games. Wonder why?

True, on the lower price scale, the price differers hurts less. But its still there. And thats the problem.

How hard is it, to just give the customers what they want! The ability to buy in dollars again, with the real US prices. And a system that follows the physical store's there price drops ( what seems to happen to the US store a lot more often then anything on the EU market ).

A quick example. Why does the game Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X. drop from $49.99 to $29.99 in the US market, and yet, stays 49.99 Euro's in the EU market? It was already more expensive on the Euro market, with the 1$=1€, but again, with a price drop, that difference increases a lot.

Why is it, that Mass Effect, and a lot off other titles dropped there dollar prices months ago, yet, there Euro prices are extreme high, or new prices...

That doesn't prove what you think it proves.

That just shows these things are agreed on in contracts with publishers, as many people have said over the course of this thread. He is simply saying it is a hassle to modify the contract and price everytime the market changes, so Valve just keeps using the previously agreed upon amount.

Thats called a bad contract. Normally one price point is used, and then Valve can update the prices them selfs based on the currency conversing off that time.

But you know, that means that they will get a loss on maybe one market, and more money on the other. But that all makes it more harder to control a market.

Whats even more strange, is that Valve signs a contract, with a fixed price structure. No offense, but in the gaming industries, thats just plain silly.

That means, that Valve is forced to keep there prices up at premium price, while the same publisher, will be selling the physical games with lower prices over time to the distributors.

You need to be nuts, to sign a contract like that, because anybody in there right minds knows, that you drive yourself out off the market.

Now, lets assume they also have a contract like that with EA. Lets take Mass Effect as a example. A few months ago, EA publicly stated that they lowered there prices for a list off games to 19.99 Euro ( inc Mass Effect ).

Was Valve sleeping or what? When you hear something like that, you get a new contract or else you market yourself out off the market ;)

Yet, the US side lowered it prices, but again, the EU side did not. What can we conclude from this? That the US side actively got EA US to change the contract, to a lower price point. Yet, they where unable to do so with the EU side?

Strange is it not. Why are other games also more easy for major price drops on the US side, then the EU side. Maybe we can guess, that the people doing the EU side sales, marketing, have no interest in doing any work? Or maybe the EU sales is just like with many US companies, a little extra... Not something to put too much effort in. Add a extra entry in the database with Euro prices, and well ... thats it.

It might have been more helpful if people from Valve actually bothered to communicate with the outside world, what there FUBAR problem is. But even that seems to be too much work...


I'm surprised this thread is still going. It says a lot about how awesome Steam is that you guys keep complaining about this, since the normal reaction to a store charging too much is to just say goodbye and use another store.

You forget one little detail. The fact that unlike a normal Physical store, where you buy a product, and have no more dealings with that store. With Steam, you have a constant dealing.

Its like buying a bunch off games, and needing to go back to the store, to play your game, and get advertised every time with more advertisement ( inc crazy prices, crazy weekend deals )...

Lets face it, we don't own the game, it seems that the store owns our games. And we are forced to use that store again, and again, while getting all those crazy Euro prices, deals etc.

Unlike a real physical store, where its fire & forget... You buy something, you don't need to think about that store anymore when you want to play a game.

Maybe its hard to understand for you, but with people who have a large collection off games from the Dollar time, getting forced to now see those high Euro prices, and high weekend deal prices. Its insulting. And no, offline mode is no solution, as people have pointed out before, because several games rely on online verification, or online multi player, and plop are the popups.

We will say it again, why is Steam actively blocking people from buying from the other regions ( UK, US ) stores? Is somebody wants to buy from the US store, because they offer a better price, or better dollar/euro conversion prices. That means that the US publisher gets more money. It looks too much like price fixing, by region locking.

sanjsanj
09-12-2009, 06:08 AM
A similar conversation happened recently on another forum I won't name, Devs responded to customers that were asking why their digital purchase in UK was so much more expensive than the US version. We got told it's because retail stores in UK/EU charge more than their US counterparts and it would be unfair to them if digital purchases were much cheaper.

But the fact remains that retail store prices drop considerably soon after release so they can keep moving that stock, also steam is often more expensive than retail, seems unfair.

PrincessLinda
09-12-2009, 07:00 AM
Well as my posts gets deleted/censored?...(4 of them) i guess i write it again...
Game: Mirror's Egde
Retail Sweden price: 184 - 249,00 sek ($26 - $35.5)(18 - 24€)
Retail Usa price: 139 sek ($19.96)(13.6€)
Retail Spain price: 203 sek ($29)(19,95€)
Retail United Kingdom:174 sek ($25)(£14.99)(17€)
Sek = Swedish kronor

Steam:
US: $19.99
UK: N/A
EU: 49,99€ (265% higher)
So either i can but it in store much cheaper or get a usa friend to buy it for me and he can even but it for himself and one of his friend i still earn on it :)

Edit:
Okey so finally now its fixed.
US: $19.99
UK: £12.99 (3% higher)
EU: 14,99€ (9% higher)


Mirror's Edge [5] - $19.99, was $39.99 (Reduced in US/CA only)
Region Restriction Notes1. Not available in Australia or New Zealand
2. Not available in Germany
3. Not available in China, Hong Kong, Japan, North Korea, or South Korea
4. Not available in Russia
5. Only available in select countries (Listed below)
6. Only available in Canada, Mexico, and the United States

marekfreak1
09-12-2009, 10:28 AM
A similar conversation happened recently on another forum I won't name, Devs responded to customers that were asking why their digital purchase in UK was so much more expensive than the US version. We got told it's because retail stores in UK/EU charge more than their US counterparts and it would be unfair to them if digital purchases were much cheaper.

But the fact remains that retail store prices drop considerably soon after release so they can keep moving that stock, also steam is often more expensive than retail, seems unfair.

Yeah I've heard that argument before...the inability to be flexible to change. This is typical protectionism. Bad for any market. Especially when nobody listens to the real customers...just some moaning groaning from those with a biased vested interest in retail.

marekfreak1
09-12-2009, 10:32 AM
Well as my posts gets deleted/censored?...(4 of them) i guess i write it again...
Game: Mirror's Egde
Retail Sweden price: 184 - 249,00 sek ($26 - $35.5)(18 - 24€)
Retail Usa price: 139 sek ($19.96)(13.6€)
Retail Spain price: 203 sek ($29)(19,95€)
Retail United Kingdom:174 sek ($25)(£14.99)(17€)
Sek = Swedish kronor

Steam:
US: $19.99
UK: N/A
EU: 49,99€ (265% higher)
So either i can but it in store much cheaper or get a usa friend to buy it for me and he can even but it for himself and one of his friend i still earn on it :)

It probably will get deleted again. Steam is becoming the dinosaur again. It seems that certain retailers are catching up to DLC services.

I can tell you that a couple of retailers here are starting to give other stores and DLC services a run for their money. Sales and promotions are regular and the prices are simply too good to pass up.

I guess the naysayers of Steam were right. It's becoming a backwards service and a dinosaur. Not very quick to change, but you're forced to stick with it due to your backlog of games. Eventually you regret having anything to do with it.

StingingVelvet
09-12-2009, 02:44 PM
Maybe its hard to understand for you, but with people who have a large collection off games from the Dollar time, getting forced to now see those high Euro prices, and high weekend deal prices. Its insulting. And no, offline mode is no solution, as people have pointed out before, because several games rely on online verification, or online multi player, and plop are the popups.

We will say it again, why is Steam actively blocking people from buying from the other regions ( UK, US ) stores? Is somebody wants to buy from the US store, because they offer a better price, or better dollar/euro conversion prices. That means that the US publisher gets more money. It looks too much like price fixing, by region locking.

Well, I guess I am just not sensitive enough to be bothered by seeing their ads and such, which are quite minimal, when I load Steam for a game. If I saw an ad for a new release and it was too expensive, I would just say "ha, no way Valve" and move on.

This whole thing seems to revolve around personal insults that do not exist. Publisher agreements set the prices, games always cost more in Europe officialy, even if store discounts negate that. If you want the game for cheaper, buy it from somewhere cheaper. End of story.

marekfreak1
09-13-2009, 09:40 AM
Well as my posts gets deleted/censored?...(4 of them) i guess i write it again...
Game: Mirror's Egde
Retail Sweden price: 184 - 249,00 sek ($26 - $35.5)(18 - 24€)
Retail Usa price: 139 sek ($19.96)(13.6€)
Retail Spain price: 203 sek ($29)(19,95€)
Retail United Kingdom:174 sek ($25)(£14.99)(17€)
Sek = Swedish kronor

Steam:
US: $19.99
UK: N/A
EU: 49,99€ (265% higher)
So either i can but it in store much cheaper or get a usa friend to buy it for me and he can even but it for himself and one of his friend i still earn on it :)

LOL I had 2 posts deleted without even a word on why. I didn't do any price comparisons, I didn't link to another site at all. I simply responded and quoted your post and replied to another post. Totally innocent.

Both of my posts were on topic and like I mentioned the posts did not break any TOS. Ahhh well, I guess we will never understand what really goes on in the heads of some ppl.

Well I felt like a bit of COD 4 multilayer action and some guys at work are setting up a LAN party so I need to get my hand on a copy. Steam price 49,99€!!! Ridiculous. I can get it for 30€ new box and half that price second hand. US pricing is something like 25$ on Steam. What the fudge? I still don't understand whats with the huge price discrepancy between regions for year old games?

epsylon_Z1
09-13-2009, 12:01 PM
Valve is a private company + financial crysis = $1 = €1

ZEdDJ
09-13-2009, 12:18 PM
Well as my posts gets deleted/censored?...(4 of them) i guess i write it again...
Game: Mirror's Egde
Retail Sweden price: 184 - 249,00 sek ($26 - $35.5)(18 - 24€)
Retail Usa price: 139 sek ($19.96)(13.6€)
Retail Spain price: 203 sek ($29)(19,95€)
Retail United Kingdom:174 sek ($25)(£14.99)(17€)
Sek = Swedish kronor

Steam:
US: $19.99
UK: N/A
EU: 49,99€ (265% higher)
So either i can but it in store much cheaper or get a usa friend to buy it for me and he can even but it for himself and one of his friend i still earn on it :)

Here in canada retail Mirror's Egde is 19.99$CAD which is a bit less than 20$US. But a few weeks ago you could order it for 7.99$CAD from one of websites that sells games here in Canada.

Anyway it would be crazy paying 49.99€ for Mirror's edge.

parrot of doom
09-13-2009, 03:14 PM
You obviously have no idea what an oligopoly is, or price fixing, for that matter.

This is not an oligopoly, since Valve is but a single player in a very large market.

Also, Valve are quite able to fix their prices at whatever level they want. There is nothing unlawful or illegal about it.

Please don't try to insult my intelligence again.

parrot of doom
09-13-2009, 03:19 PM
If the road next to your home is in a bad condition, and you take a other road, sure. That also works. But it will not get your road fixed. Thats where the complaining, and whining comes in handy. ;)

The roads in my country are legal rights of way and councils have a statutory duty to maintain them, regardless of use.

Therefore I do not need to complain for them to be repaired. They will be repaired no matter what. A complaint may merely hasten that repair, it will not force it.

We know that company's release products in the US for xxx dollar, and use the exact same amount, in euro's, for no good reason ( making the product way more expensive ).

They do it for a very good reason. They do it because people in Europe are prepared to pay more than people in the US.

We also know how much they try to limit us from buying products in the US, and letting them be shipped to the EU. Check any major US site, and unless you are in the Army, and stationed here, forget about getting those way cheaper US goods over here ( unless you have a few shortcuts, like somebody who lives in the US ).

They're not legally obliged to sell you anything. They could quite legally tell you to clear off if they wanted, and not sell you the product at all.

Steam is just a extension to all this, but, the fact that they suddenly changed the rules on people, and started with the 1$=1€, a lack off communication, and the refusal to lower prices especially on the EU price list, over time ( resulting in those 400 a 500% price differences with retail ).

Their rules. Like it or lump it, its your choice. You want lower prices? Stop using the service.

In reality, this probably has no use at all. But if this constant complains bothers at leased one person at Valve, its a start ;)

Valve will look at one thing - profit. If the expected profit drops, they'll take notice. If not, don't expect things to change.

Simplex
09-14-2009, 12:32 AM
This is not an oligopoly, since Valve is but a single player in a very large market.
Also, Valve are quite able to fix their prices at whatever level they want. There is nothing unlawful or illegal about it.

I was referring to cellular providers not valve.

Please don't try to insult my intelligence again.
If you had it, I'd try to insult it. Nice flamebait, by the way.

MagrothJ
09-14-2009, 10:21 AM
Sometimes I check the prices on the new games that pop up on Steam. So I did this today on Mini Ninjas:
$29.99
€39.99

I can't do anything else but laugh.

epsylon_Z1
09-14-2009, 10:30 AM
X3: Terran Conflict
on Steam: 29,99€
retail: 9.85€

dripdropstopdip
09-15-2009, 04:31 PM
They do it for a very good reason. They do it because people in Europe are prepared to pay more than people in the US.

what? based on...?

sneakbyte
09-15-2009, 08:12 PM
Hi Guys This problem also affects Kiwis and Aussies they pay double on some games cause activision are **** moneygrabbing ****.

BTW COD4 here for us is 49.99 Still with COD4:MW2 just around the corner

AdiAdrian
09-16-2009, 08:33 AM
Kiwis? New Zealanders maybe? Excuse my ignorance :)

Well, well, Steam becoming a steam locomotive in the age of maglev trains. Instead of trying to push and support pc gaming on the market (at a fair and correct price) in this console galore times, Valve, the leading bla bla, is throwing down the drain any fairness, credibility, that its left in their Seattle offices.
The only thing that they are doing right is the continuous support for TF2.

mouton
09-16-2009, 11:26 AM
Hi Guys This problem also affects Kiwis and Aussies they pay double on some games cause activision are **** moneygrabbing ****.

BTW COD4 here for us is 49.99 Still with COD4:MW2 just around the corner
Australia and it's neighbourhood is a different case entirely, as you are ripped off by the whole gaming industry - retail, online shops - everything is way overpriced, is it not.

parrot of doom
09-16-2009, 12:52 PM
what? based on...?

Based on the fact that they're still buying software.

parrot of doom
09-16-2009, 12:54 PM
I was referring to cellular providers not valve.


If you had it, I'd try to insult it. Nice flamebait, by the way.

I see, so first you quote an instance that is apparently unrelated. Then you insult me.

You're clearly not a person worth debating with, so I think I'll pay your posts the attention they deserve.

RMJ
09-16-2009, 01:25 PM
I just want to know, how they can think they will make more money by keep their prices at 49.95€ and not lowering it as time goes, and also make cheap offers? i dont get it, those people should be fired.

They are making their company loose money. Its freaking sad in 2009 these relics of old farts arent put on pension and retired.

Cheapers games sells more, its really hard science.

Bobobearx
09-16-2009, 09:13 PM
cheaper games sell more, yes, but expensive games profit more per sale. when price goes down the demand goes up, but doesn't mean they will profit more.

maybe they have researchers showing that even at that price there will be enough demand to profit more then selling it cheap.

add the DRM and charging for DLC now and you got new age cocaine (games) that people will buy at any price :). hell, if i was the company and i knew people buy games like it was an addicting drug i sell for 200$ if they still keep buying.

Simplex
09-17-2009, 07:59 AM
I see, so first you quote an instance that is apparently unrelated. Then you insult me.

You're clearly not a person worth debating with, so I think I'll pay your posts the attention they deserve.

PLONK!

This will probably get deleted, GoG now offers The Longest Journey for 9,99$ FOR EVERYONE, no matter where they leave.

Meanwhile, Steam happily rips Europeans by selling TLJ for 9,99€ in accordance with 1$=1€ policy.

hvkasteren
09-17-2009, 10:43 AM
Another release that's on at least one other site for less than Steam. MDK 1 and 2 both available for 6$ elsewhere, yet 9$ and €9 on steam. Even the combined pack at 15$ and €15 (how about just calling it €15$ :P) is worse than separate purchase elsewhere.

Skaery
09-17-2009, 12:49 PM
[...]how about just calling it €15$ :P)[...]
That's typically how I write the prices :p

Wulfklaue
09-17-2009, 01:21 PM
Based on the fact that they're still buying software.

One. We do not know how how many people still buy at the increased Euro prices.

Its possible that there is a significant drop, but, there is also a recession going on. For the same amount, Valve is just calculating that drop in sales, to the recession.

Seeing as how Valve refuses to talk to anybody about this mater, its impossible to say that people are or are not buying software from Steam.

At best, all we can say, is the reaction off the people in this Forum. That most have stopped buying, or buy only the 5€ or less type off games ( where the price difference becomes less "hard" ).

From my own buying, Valve is out about 1000$ by now.

Also:

They do it for a very good reason. They do it because people in Europe are prepared to pay more than people in the US.

This by my recall, is one off the most stupid things i have seen anybody say this year.

In case you don't know, people in Europe will try to buy thing cheaper, if they can. But, ... The big company's, have the habit off limiting sales to regions ( just like our little Valve ).

The end result is, that the exact same product can be 500$ in the US, and 500€ ( inc tax ) in the EU ( aka, 20% more ).

Why do you think people do:

Buy R1 DVD's, and use region free players
Try to side import products from the US, and other places.

And why do you think that those company's add Region restrictions on products? Or limit people from buying whatever they want from Amazon.com, Buy.com, and all the other big online shops... And send them to there "region" shops.

Its all about profit. The fact is, the US market is so used to spend, spend, spend, that they can not justify high prices on the US markt. Where as the EU market was more conservative in the past, because each country, was there own region limitation.

But this has changed with the Free Market in the EU. But even today, companies try to limit sales to countries as much as they can. Try a wood burner, +2000€ here, 1000€ in Poland. You try to buy it, and the manufacture uses his iron clad contracts with the local seller, to prevent a sale ( We have a complaint about that with the EU, but they are kind off slow ;) ).

People want products at those US prices, or even other EU country prices, but every way, we are getting stopped by limitations, and region checks imposed by the manufactures.

So please, don't make any stupid comments like how the people in Europe like to pay more. It shows that you are not Europeans, because else you will have known better then to make such a baka comment like that.

Do you really think we like these 1$=1€ on most off our products? Do you not think that given the choice, we rather buy from the US market in dollars, and save a nice 20% ( or more, as the US market gets all the nice sale. Ask Dell, and some off the deals that can make the same product 50% or less on the US market, then the EU market! ).

We have a long way still to go, to break every off those monopoly creating manufactures. I for one am glade, at all those fine's that are being imposed by the EU, on Intel, MS, etc. Bit by bit, they learn that the EU market is changed, and is changing even more.

Just like Valve, and there preventing people from buying from the UK store. Besides, up to today, we still do not know what the UK store is so much cheaper. There goes your comment, does it not.

What did you say, people in Europe like to pay more? Strange, because last time i checked, the UK was where again?

Lets see if that US education has at minimum given you some basic geographical knowhow about the rest off the world.

parrot of doom
09-17-2009, 02:12 PM
Get off your high horse. I didn't write anywhere that people in Europe like to pay more. I wrote that they're prepared to pay more. And please don't try to lecture me on the European market, I've been self-employed for all my working life, and have spent significant sums of money on equipment purchased in the UK, and in Europe.

Valve don't have to justify their pricing to anyone. If people think that the price is worth the outlay, they'll buy the game. If not, they won't. Its extremely simple business practice—you set your price at whatever level the market will support. I do it, and so does every other successful business.

Don't try and misquote me again, and please don't assume that I'm from the US, because I am not. I am a British citizen, and am the polar opposite of the uneducated person you presume me to be. The fact that you choose to use personal attacks to defend your somewhat ignorant position demonstrates the weakness of your argument.

mouton
09-17-2009, 06:05 PM
I wrote that they're prepared to pay more.
Isn't it a huge generalization, though? I mean, you say you know European market, but unless by Europe you mean Germany + France, then you are missing the fact that the continental market is very varied. Even if you ignore post-communist bloc (which is, lol, in euro steam zone), there is still a huge variation in game prices, afaik. Thus, I have issues with your quote.
Valve don't have to justify their pricing to anyone. If people think that the price is worth the outlay, they'll buy the game. If not, they won't. Its extremely simple business practice—you set your price at whatever level the market will support.
Well, of course they don't need to justify anything and of course they are entitled to set whatever prices they want. Allow me to clarify what, imo, are reasons why this thread was so violent:

a) Valve aspired to the "don't be evil" kind of company, the Last Hope of PC Gaming etc. and many of the posters here where faithful followers. If Valve was, say, EA, this thread would be dead in a week. Standard betrayal issues, you know;
b)Valve did the price rise in a sneaky style ("we're just changing the currency, move along") and in a stark contrast to their usual communicativeness, about this topic they went silent as a grave - perfectly pragmatic but not very nice;
c)They did a bunch of other minor, perfectly legal but uncool things, like VAT/price maneuvers and illogical pack prices.

Those things are mostly psychological and why couldn't we get over it? Well, I did, it is you who is keeping this thread on the first page, lol

DoReMi
09-17-2009, 07:02 PM
The new standard is PC titles for 50 EUR (which in itself is outrageous), get used to it. Over are the days when PC games were like half the price of console games, ignorant customers made us all the same animal.

Then people get infractions on these forums for "advocating piracy" for saying they're better off cracking a game rather than paying 90 USD for it, when it really is valve and other developers advocating piracy with absolutely ridiculous DRM, value-for-money ratio and insane prices.

Suit yourself.


People don't stop playing games, they just don't pay for them anymore.

impar
09-18-2009, 02:20 AM
Greetings!
The new standard is PC titles for 50 EUR...Where? Only on Steam.
I am still buying new games for less than 35€.

Steam seems to not have the necessary publisher deal making skills to survive in Europe as a store.

supernaut
09-18-2009, 02:41 AM
Standard retail price for PC games is 45€ where I live, so full priced launch titles (49,99€) are $8 cheaper at retail (in Estonia). There's no reason for me to buy a game on Steam, unless it has a significant discount.

It's nice to see that Resident Evil 5 doesn't belong in the 49,99€ category. I'm not sure what it costs here though.

Weird Russian
09-18-2009, 02:55 AM
Trine now with a new low price of 20$! YAAAAY
Oh it's 20€ actually... Buuuh.

No the thing is, the demo was lovely, but didn't make me want this game really really bad. So I won't buy it, even if it's cheaper in retail or elsewhere. But I would've bought it, if the 20$ would get translated into € properly, just because it's a nice game and it would be a fair pricing on steam. I'm weird like that. Nice try, but nah.

epsylon_Z1
09-18-2009, 06:34 AM
I bought Red Faction Guerilla for 40$ on Impulse. ;)

marekfreak1
09-18-2009, 06:38 AM
Get off your high horse. I didn't write anywhere that people in Europe like to pay more. I wrote that they're prepared to pay more. And please don't try to lecture me on the European market, I've been self-employed for all my working life, and have spent significant sums of money on equipment purchased in the UK, and in Europe.

Valve don't have to justify their pricing to anyone. If people think that the price is worth the outlay, they'll buy the game. If not, they won't. Its extremely simple business practice—you set your price at whatever level the market will support. I do it, and so does every other successful business.

Don't try and misquote me again, and please don't assume that I'm from the US, because I am not. I am a British citizen, and am the polar opposite of the uneducated person you presume me to be. The fact that you choose to use personal attacks to defend your somewhat ignorant position demonstrates the weakness of your argument.

I am still trying to figure out how I am prepared to pay more?

Actually, Steam/Valve with a large and loud-mouthed customer base, which has a vested personal interest in Steam (just look at the community),Valve actually has no choice but to justify themselves. Any sane company would, to a certain degree that does not infringe on their trade secrets or business model.

A prime example is coming release of L4D 2 and how they have handled this whole Boycoot thing. However, this just points to Valve showing they care about certain things, just not EU customers. There is more to a successful business that perfect pricing that the market is willing is to pay.

What you say can be extremely ambiguous and is in fact too general; "you set your price at whatever level the market will support"... 432 pages, 693134 views later this market is not willing to support the localized prices on Steam for the EU region. But I tend to disagree with you here "I do it, and so does every other successful business."...I guess if it was such a successful concept, not a single business would ever go bankrupt. Valve and their Steam service might be successful and rational in general when it comes to other markets like in the NA region. Just not so much in the EU region with these insane localized prices. I am speculating now, but I think this thread does prove a point.

Its not uncommon for companies to undercut prices for instance in favour or sales for market share instead of profit in one market simply to establish a or simply to remain competitive, while they successfully dominate other market with prices that market will support.

I really don't see Valve/Steam successful in this regard. They are doing the total opposite of what I see as rational and to be honest I still cannot understand whatever reasoning for Valve to set these insane prices for the EU region on Steam. Why are they deliberately giving us the shaft?

Ultimately it is the customer who truly determines the true value of the price to pay and there are so many alternatives out there.

mchufnagel
09-18-2009, 07:32 AM
I am still trying to figure out how I am prepared to pay more?




Well of course you and the rest of the posters on this thread aren't. But if you look around, Europeons do, on average, pay more for many goods compared to North Americans. I'm sure there are plenty of historical reasons for this. But that is the way it's been. Now for digital distribution it doesn't and shouldn't have to be this way. But Valve and others see that this price disparity has been around for a while and feel that they may as well take advantage of it while they can. Since the EU allows cross-border shopping without tariffs, this model is vanishing. But if you look at MSRP's between Western Europe and North America, it still exists.

marekfreak1
09-18-2009, 07:46 AM
Well of course you and the rest of the posters on this thread aren't. But if you look around, Europeons do, on average, pay more for many goods compared to North Americans. I'm sure there are plenty of historical reasons for this. But that is the way it's been. Now for digital distribution it doesn't and shouldn't have to be this way. But Valve and others see that this price disparity has been around for a while and feel that they may as well take advantage of it while they can. Since the EU allows cross-border shopping without tariffs, this model is vanishing. But if you look at MSRP's between Western Europe and North America, it still exists.

True true...but especially when you have no choice when the tax burden in Europe is generally higher on those specific goods. Look at the cost of energy of Natural Gas and Petrol. Food for instance is not taxed in the US, while in Europe...

..but then if we look at the price of games on Steam, then this rationale is totally unjustified with the difference in prices up to a 50% to 300%.

That price justification is only in their heads as far as I can see it. That's fine by me. I'm buying my games elsewhere and looking for alternative sources to Steam.

I guess us Euros are too insignificant to warrant concern for Valve/Steam.

Zodiac+
09-18-2009, 01:01 PM
I bought Red Faction Guerilla for 40$ on Impulse. ;)

wow you were ripped off, though not as much as you would have been buying on steam.

epsylon_Z1
09-18-2009, 01:10 PM
wow you were ripped off, though not as much as you would have been buying on steam.I don't think so.
It's costs 73.49$ on Steam (50€)

Flash
09-19-2009, 09:45 AM
If the average salary is 2000€ in Europe and average salary is 2000$ in US, I am guessing it would be fair products in europe to be x€ and x$ in US (x=x)

bippukt
09-19-2009, 10:04 AM
If the average salary is 2000€ in Europe and average salary is 2000$ in US, I am guessing it would be fair products in europe to be x€ and x$ in US (x=x)

Then I should get games for $5, because the fairness should work backwards as well ;)

parrot of doom
09-19-2009, 05:12 PM
a) Valve aspired to the "don't be evil" kind of company, the Last Hope of PC Gaming etc. and many of the posters here where faithful followers. If Valve was, say, EA, this thread would be dead in a week. Standard betrayal issues, you know;

I've bought Valve games since the original HL1 came out. I like them. They're fun. I really couldn't give a ♥♥♥♥ if they were £10 or £50, they'd be worth the money at £100 considering the hours of fun I've had.


b)Valve did the price rise in a sneaky style ("we're just changing the currency, move along") and in a stark contrast to their usual communicativeness, about this topic they went silent as a grave - perfectly pragmatic but not very nice;

Newflash - company raises prices, likes to keep it quiet. Just like all companies. Your raise your prices, you don't make a song and dance about it.


c)They did a bunch of other minor, perfectly legal but uncool things, like VAT/price maneuvers and illogical pack prices.

So? If you don't like it, don't buy it.

parrot of doom
09-19-2009, 05:21 PM
I am still trying to figure out how I am prepared to pay more?

You ≠ customer base.


Actually, Steam/Valve with a large and loud-mouthed customer base, which has a vested personal interest in Steam (just look at the community),Valve actually has no choice but to justify themselves. Any sane company would, to a certain degree that does not infringe on their trade secrets or business model.

They do have a choice actually. Their games, their products, their pricing. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Since they've not changed their policy, I think its safe to assume that it doesn't need changing.

What you say can be extremely ambiguous and is in fact too general; "you set your price at whatever level the market will support"... 432 pages, 693134 views later this market is not willing to support the localized prices on Steam for the EU region.

Most people don't bother with this forum. They buy the games, play them, and do something else. Most people have better things to do than moan about small amounts of money.

But I tend to disagree with you here "I do it, and so does every other successful business."...I guess if it was such a successful concept, not a single business would ever go bankrupt.

Please don't ever go into business for yourself. Please.



Valve and their Steam service might be successful and rational in general when it comes to other markets like in the NA region. Just not so much in the EU region with these insane localized prices. I am speculating now, but I think this thread does prove a point.

They're only insane in your opinion, and since Valve haven't changed their prices, you appear to be in a minority. That's your problem, not Valve's.

Its not uncommon for companies to undercut prices for instance in favour or sales for market share instead of profit in one market simply to establish a or simply to remain competitive, while they successfully dominate other market with prices that market will support.

♥♥♥♥ me, now I'm being lectured on things I learnt 20 years ago.

I really don't see Valve/Steam successful in this regard. They are doing the total opposite of what I see as rational and to be honest I still cannot understand whatever reasoning for Valve to set these insane prices for the EU region on Steam. Why are they deliberately giving us the shaft?

Ultimately it is the customer who truly determines the true value of the price to pay and there are so many alternatives out there.

They're not giving you the shaft. You're doing that yourselves, by whinging about things that most people don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about.

Still, I'm sure Valve will appreciate your insight into their business model. It'll make good reading, when they want a good laugh.

parrot of doom
09-19-2009, 05:21 PM
If the average salary is 2000€ in Europe and average salary is 2000$ in US, I am guessing it would be fair products in europe to be x€ and x$ in US (x=x)

Poor guess.

TherapyFailed
09-19-2009, 11:46 PM
If the average salary is 2000€ in Europe and average salary is 2000$ in US, I am guessing it would be fair products in europe to be x€ and x$ in US (x=x)

Damn, i wish that was true for me and my friends. I have 1000€ (software tester) salary and i consider myself very lucky. Friend has 460€ (computer sales) so he is pretty much out of the game, unless i gift him. The most payed friend that i know has 1300€ ( software developer), but ... you know he is not into games so it does not even matter if he had those "average" 2000€ like you assume!!

Since you are ok with the €=$ please explain how long can you go with 460$? Consider at least - pay rent, food, electricity, water, telephone, internet, life insurance,....

Im not saying if Steam would change $=€ policy that everything would be perfect, but it sure would be easyer for customers in Europe. Its not like we ♥♥♥♥ our money after nice dinner every night.

F3nya
09-20-2009, 07:09 AM
wow you were ripped off, though not as much as you would have been buying on steam.

No, he wasn't.

Eek!
09-20-2009, 07:45 AM
Most people have better things to do than moan about small amounts of money.We in the UK are ripped-off left, right and centre for many things, and you know it. A shame then that you take this approach.

Also, your highly-charged posting style invites arguments. Not sure what you're expecting.

Zodiac+
09-20-2009, 08:11 AM
No, he wasn't.

Not as badly ripped of if he was using Steam. But, basically I can buy the game for £23, this equates to approximately $37.

Steam on the other hand charges £35 which equates to $57.

This is reference Red Faction.

DoReMi
09-20-2009, 11:00 AM
Where? Only on Steam.

Amazon as well for alot of new games.

impar
09-20-2009, 12:39 PM
Greetings!
Amazon as well for alot of new games.
Examples?

Toto pectore
09-20-2009, 12:51 PM
I'm looking forward to new digital distribution: Get Games by Eurogamer. Hopefully we will get more fair prices for Europe with localized support.

Here is link: http://ddreview.5elements.net/2009/09/eurogamer-to-launch-get-game/

Akiha
09-20-2009, 01:32 PM
I'm looking forward to new digital distribution: Get Games by Eurogamer. Hopefully we will get more fair prices for Europe with localized support.

Here is link: http://ddreview.5elements.net/2009/09/eurogamer-to-launch-get-game/
I'd guess it'd be more or less similar to GamersGate, which is based in Sweden. Some games cheaper than in Steam by larger margin, some by just few cents (the cheapest retail sources like Play still being cheaper than the DD services).

Seriously doubt Eurogamer is going to undercut the retail prices either, which is the entire point.

epsylon_Z1
09-20-2009, 01:37 PM
I don't like GamersGate.

marekfreak1
09-20-2009, 02:27 PM
You ≠ customer base.



They do have a choice actually. Their games, their products, their pricing. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Since they've not changed their policy, I think its safe to assume that it doesn't need changing.



Most people don't bother with this forum. They buy the games, play them, and do something else. Most people have better things to do than moan about small amounts of money.



Please don't ever go into business for yourself. Please.



They're only insane in your opinion, and since Valve haven't changed their prices, you appear to be in a minority. That's your problem, not Valve's.



♥♥♥♥ me, now I'm being lectured on things I learnt 20 years ago.



They're not giving you the shaft. You're doing that yourselves, by whinging about things that most people don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about.

Still, I'm sure Valve will appreciate your insight into their business model. It'll make good reading, when they want a good laugh.

...and I am sure you are totally convinced that everyone posting in this thread, barely has a High School degree. Its not as if you have any insight into their business model.

To be honest, I stated my opinion without any flaming in your direction. I don't know your educational backgroud and you have no idea of mine. Judging by your reply, however, it appears you take immediate offense in whatever anybody ever has to say that doesn't fall in line with how you are convinced the real world actually works.

The fact that you are actually posting in this thread goes to show you are simply a biased condescending fool i.e. a beloved Troll.

Anyway, this thread and every single poster goes to prove you are seriously wrong in every point. That is a fact. Prove it otherwise. I dare you.

Wait, I take that back. You are always right. Excuse my foolishness. I'm just a lowlife uneducated fool.

If you are the elite businessman you claim to be, then look at the facts and put those well groomed obervation skills of yours to use. We (and I sure consider myself one of them) are the EU Customer base. If you can't grasp that concept, I strongly suggest you return that cereal box diploma of yours.

We might not be the majority, but we sure have a voice. That voice reflects this whole affair. And seriously dude, if you have that type of attitude towards the value of money, whether the amount is big or "too small" in this case, then I am sure glad to know that I am not one of your "happy and satisfied customers".

marekfreak1
09-20-2009, 02:42 PM
I'd guess it'd be more or less similar to GamersGate, which is based in Sweden. Some games cheaper than in Steam by larger margin, some by just few cents (the cheapest retail sources like Play still being cheaper than the DD services).

Seriously doubt Eurogamer is going to undercut the retail prices either, which is the entire point.

...and I wonder if the game content would be localized for each country. Most localized games are cheaper than in the original language, which is usually English.

If they don't undercut retail, no worries. The games will still be cheaper than on Steam :o To be honest I would love to see Eurogamer in the Game. Regional restrictions are just as frustrating as getting ripped off.

Thanks for the link Toto pectore. Great read and true to every point. =>

"If Eurogamer can create a more European friendly model and work with publishers to price games reasonably through the service, I feel Get Games has a strong chance at gaining a foothold in the PC digital distribution market. In May of 2008, Nielsen research declared Europe to be the second largest games market behind Asia, spending approximately €7.3 billion ($11.3 billion) the previous year.[5] With many European gamers frustrated at other services due to odd pricing schemes, this may be the perfect time for the Eurogamer to capitalize on the market."

Serge 13
09-21-2009, 01:35 AM
the new games that come out are really expensive on steam, i only use steam for some old school games, i never pay 50 euros for a game on steam. i'd rather have the retail version.

>X<
09-21-2009, 01:52 AM
It is unfortunate that so many companies have a hand in the Steam Store, this must make sorting issues like this one hell of a pain in Steams side. Do any of you really think Steam would prefer you to by the retail version where they make nothing?

Think about that a moment, does Steam make anything if you buy retail?

Ultimately your actions with your wallets will decide.

impar
09-21-2009, 03:33 AM
Greetings!
Think about that a moment, does Steam make anything if you buy retail?
No.
But, currently I am just thinking that Steam is making more money from the € Ripoff than it is losing from informed gamers buying retail.

brotrrwinner
09-21-2009, 08:00 AM
Guys, finally a game is PROPERLY priced for Europe:

Fallen Earth, US: $49.99
Fallen Earth, EU: 34.24€

HOLY ♥♥♥♥ do my eyes deceive me? It's the EXACT conversion! Why can't ALL games be like this?

Teraku
09-21-2009, 08:55 AM
Valve,
You promised us that you would do something about it, but you haven't at all in these months. I checked it using a proxy, and we pay 8 euros+VAT right now for UT3 black, while US users pay 8 DOLLARS! even though it's small right now (we pay 11 dollars!) with more expensive games, the difference is much bigger.

Stop lying!

mocas
09-21-2009, 09:33 AM
You're wrong. EU prices already have VAT included.

Maggost
09-21-2009, 10:33 AM
In Europe almost all the things cost a way more than US, its kinda hard to start a new life in there without a good money source.

Andy83
09-21-2009, 12:08 PM
Guys, finally a game is PROPERLY priced for Europe:

Fallen Earth, US: $49.99
Fallen Earth, EU: 34.24€

The same is true for Empire: Total War DLC Warpath:

US Store (http://store.steampowered.com/app/10606/?cc=US): $9,99
EU Store (http://store.steampowered.com/app/10606/?cc=DE): 6,99€

parrot of doom
09-21-2009, 12:49 PM
however, it appears you take immediate offense in whatever anybody ever has to say that doesn't fall in line with how you are convinced the real world actually works.

Don't flatter yourself.

The fact that you are actually posting in this thread goes to show you are simply a biased condescending fool i.e. a beloved Troll.

I see, you have no real argument to use - so use personal attacks. Enjoy being ignored.

El Pollo Diablo
09-21-2009, 03:09 PM
Don't flatter yourself.



I see, you have no real argument to use - so use personal attacks. Enjoy being ignored.

i'm with you on that guy, marek. everybody would be glad to pay £ prices insted of €.

he'd best stay out of here

chopstix
09-21-2009, 04:21 PM
Guys, finally a game is PROPERLY priced for Europe:

Fallen Earth, US: $49.99
Fallen Earth, EU: 34.24€

HOLY ♥♥♥♥ do my eyes deceive me? It's the EXACT conversion! Why can't ALL games be like this?

I believe it is simply down to publishers don't care nor take the time to understand gamers. It has been just under a year since Steam changed their prices, and they consistently remain high.

On average, EU prices are still roughly 32% higher for new releases (http://ddreview.5elements.net/price-comparison/) than retail on Steam. That is beyond unreasonable. The sad thing is, if nothing has changed by now, I worry nothing will for a long time. Impulse is even moving to more digital distribution restrictions, and a majority of D2D sales are NA only now. All at the request of publishers.

It is amazing how such a simple, straight forward distribution model can be turned into something so complicated and frustrating.

brotrrwinner
09-21-2009, 05:01 PM
Oh well, as long as I still can import games from the UK for prices between 22€ and 35€ I'm happy and I tell Steam to shove a big one up their ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ^__^

Oh, and I get the box and manual too. Money-grabbing ♥♥♥♥♥s won't see a dime of my money ever again

Simplex
09-22-2009, 12:16 AM
There are still some trolls who come here and claim bul♥♥♥♥ like "EU retail prices are higher than US retail prices and UE Steam prices merely reflect that". Actually, they don't: See this chart (http://ddreview.5elements.net/assets/chart_eusteam_20090921.png)

I hope that after seeing this chart those trolls will STFU once and for all.

Let's hope someone from Valve sees this and this will be a "bucket of cold water on his head" (that's a direct translation of a Polish idiom, similar to "rude awakening" ;) ).

Malcolm
09-22-2009, 02:51 AM
Aion & Batman arkham asylum are one of the top sellers this month. I cannot imagine all that they would have sold with normalized prices...

That chart is like a nuke in my mind...
I'll compare all my future buys in steam with a retailed version.

briankearon666
09-22-2009, 03:49 AM
Aion & Batman arkham asylum are one of the top sellers this month. I cannot imagine all that they would have sold with normalized prices...

That chart is like a nuke in my mind...
I'll compare all my future buys in steam with a retailed version.

I always take those most sold charts on steam with a pinch of salt. I remember when mirrors edge was released for €49.99 it was in the top sellers list, and only 8 people were playing it, the day after release. It can be seen on the stats page. One would think that these games on the top sellers list should be rather high on the games being played list
Have a look for yourself.
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
The idea of paying €49.99 for a PC game is just nonsensicle. May the get what they deserve.......low sales through steam.