Looks like $1 = €1 after all

[StingingVelvet]

Market forces don't work as simple as you portray. Besides that, there is a very considerable difference between physical goods and digital distribution.

Only in perception... a game still should cost a relative amount to the spending money people have in their target markets. If a typical 20 year old male in America makes $12 an hour and a similar male in Australia makes $18 an hour in the same currency when adjusted, it makes sense to charge more in Australia, which is exactly the case.

It could be shipped, downloaded or beamed in through your bran and it doesn't matter, it is about the price they can charge relative to the location.

And since I know my Australian friends buy on Steam because it is cheaper than local retail I would assume they already lower the price a bit for digital download, something they do NOT do in the US, I assure you.

[Sparkey]

Only in perception...

Apart from the philosophical question whether or not everything is a matter of perception, there is a massive difference in physical goods and digital goods. If you claim they are equal, then it's no use debating that point.

a game still should cost a relative amount to the spending money people have in their target markets. If a typical 20 year old male in America makes $12 an hour and a similar male in Australia makes $18 an hour in the same currency when adjusted, it makes sense to charge more in Australia, which is exactly the case.

If that were true, then all games should be charged relative to each individual's salary, not just the country's average. But your point, in my opinion, is rendered invalid simply because the prices only go up and never down (with minor exceptions).

[StingingVelvet]

If that were true, then all games should be charged relative to each individual's salary, not just the country's average. But your point, in my opinion, is rendered invalid simply because the prices only go up and never down (with minor exceptions).

Game prices in Russia are extremely low actually, for this very reason. They are also low in many Asian countries to combat the rampant piracy and deal with the income levels. Games aren't really sold in the poorest of the poor countries, so there isn't much to say there.

You can believe what you like, but I am telling you the reason prices in Australia are higher is because it is a different economy. You cannot say "games cost X in the US and cost X + Y here so we are being stiffed!" It doesn't work that way, even in a direct comparison of the same currency. A dollar in New York is not the same as a dollar in Mexico City, even if it is the same exact bill carried from one to the other.

[Sparkey]

You can believe what you like, but I am telling you the reason prices in Australia are higher is because it is a different economy.

As far as I know Australia's per capita income is not higher than America's. Why would they be charged more? The same, of course, goes for Europe.

[StingingVelvet]

As far as I know Australia's per capita income is not higher than America's. Why would they be charged more? The same, of course, goes for Europe.

It's not based on the entire median income for the country, which you are right is roughly equal or even a bit higher for the US. It is based on factors dealing only with the target market of the product, in this case 20-something year old men. Median incomes cover everyone in the country.

I'm not an economist anyway, I am not trying to offer specifics. I just know that in all the threads on this issue and the dozens of pages in this thread people continually act as if the fair thing is to have the prices the same for everyone, but that's just not realistic. Australia is an entirely different country with its own economy, as are the countries of Europe. You can't just take X dollars and convert it and then make a direct comparison, it is muuuuuch more complex than that.

You guys are arguing a ten gallon issue with a cup of logic.

[Caelo]

The pricing most likely takes into account what price is considered "normal" for luxury goods like games and DVDs in a country. It most likely also takes into account what the operating costs are for that specific country/region, and although they're mostly the same for digital distribution, there are some differences, like in the EU Valve has to deal with multiple publishers for one region for a single game.
They prolly also take into account, what consumers think is a fair price, what price will get them the biggest market share and a gazillion of other things.
All in all prices for luxury goods are (probably, dunno for sure) higher in Australia than in the US. Same for EU vs US.

That being said, after all of this is taken into account, the marketing/financial people over @ Valve prolly decide how much they want to "rip" people off. ^^

All in all, it ($=€) doesn't relly matter anymore, as steam is dirt cheap when they're having sales, which is happening more and more anyways.

[Sparkey]

I still don't see a valid point why I'd have to pay 40% more for the same game here in Europe than people do in the States, especially when our economies are comparable. I don't think "economics" is a good excuse for greed.

[Temar]

StingingVelvet is basically right. However if you want to determine if the price of a product is the same, you have to compare the purchasing power and not the average income. One method to do so is the Purchasing Power Parity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity). All these methods are not exact though and it is really hard to estimate exact equilibrium exchange rates.

According to the wikipedia link, Australia had a purchasing power of 80% compared to the U.S. in 2003. Assuming this value is still valid for 2010, games should be 20% cheaper in Australia. However you can not just take the current exchange rate and compare the prices. You have to look at a long period of time.

[StingingVelvet]

StingingVelvet is basically right. However if you want to determine if the price of a product is the same, you have to compare the purchasing power and not the average income. One method to do so is the Purchasing Power Parity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity). All these methods are not exact though and it is really hard to estimate exact equilibrium exchange rates.

According to the wikipedia link, Australia had a purchasing power of 80% compared to the U.S. in 2003. Assuming this value is still valid for 2010, games should be 20% cheaper in Australia. However you can not just take the current exchange rate and compare the prices. You have to look at a long period of time.

Good info, thanks.

This is the point I was trying to make... direct comparisons of different economies is not a valid argument. Make more points about how your average disposable income for a male under 35 is not any higher than a comparable US income though and you're on to something.

[Simplex]

@StingingVelvet: I live in a relatively poor country - Poland, with a average monthly salary of roughly 600€ (after tax) - also Poland is not in Euro zone. I totally agree that poorer countries should have cheaper games, as you yourself wrote. So I was in complete agreement with you, until I checked the actual prices on steam and realised that Steam charges me MORE than people living in US or UK, where average income is 2-3 time higher than here.
So how is that for fair pricing and giving poorer countries lower prices? I know many gamers and believe me, NOONE in Poland (ok, maybe the richest and/or the laziest people) buys on Steam because from our perspective (600€ salary and high unemployment among young people) the prices on Steam are absurd, totally disconnected from our reality. In retail a new PC game costs no more than 20-25€ (and it is usually localized in Polish, so there are additional costs). On steam new games often cost 50€, which is almost 10% of an average monthly income in Poland. Good percentage, I am sure if games in US were priced at almost 10% of average monthly income, everybody would buy them in bulk on steam.

So if what you wrote was actually happening (Steam is differentiating game prices according to incomes) games on steam would cost half of what they cost now.

So imagine yourself earning slightly less then 800 bucks a month and paying 50 bucks for a game on steam. Thats how majority of potential Steam clients in Poland feel.

[AussieSausage]

i dont get this thread ( just found it ) are we not payin the price shown or something?

[Void(null)]

i dont get this thread ( just found it ) are we not payin the price shown or something?

It depends on the game. Some Publishers do a direct X Currency to Dollars conversion which means that games will cost way more in the EU.

[Sparkey]

Good info, thanks.

This is the point I was trying to make... direct comparisons of different economies is not a valid argument. Make more points about how your average disposable income for a male under 35 is not any higher than a comparable US income though and you're on to something.

This image shows it pretty well I think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PPP2003.svg . This shows the purchasing power parity by country (as linked to by Temar). It doesn't divide by age, but I am confident to say that if the average of all ages is equal, the average below 35 won't be much different either.

I hear your stories about economics, and for lowering prices it is a good explanation, but for increasing prices I don't think it is. Plus, more and more publishers are now charging a similar price in converted currency instead of a direct conversion, which to me is a confirmation that the direct conversion is not fair to consumers.

[Caelo]

Only looking at PPP is not a good thing. You also need to take into account the things I've mentioned here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15638239&postcount=7761

The bottom-line is though, as long as Valve and the other publishers are satisfied with the profits made in certain countries, nothing will change. Which is where this thread is for, to show the publishers that they could get more profit if they lowered the price, eg making them unsatisfied.

[Sparkey]

Only looking at PPP is not a good thing. You also need to take into account the things I've mentioned here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15638239&postcount=7761

The bottom-line is though, as long as Valve and the other publishers are satisfied with the profits made in certain countries, nothing will change. Which is where this thread is for, to show the publishers that they could get more profit if they lowered the price, eg making them unsatisfied.

Thanks, that is exactly what I believe too.

[Skaery]

Usually people whine about the €=$ rate on many games, and often without considering VAT, which is between 0% and 25%.

I just noticed that the exchange rate between € and $ is 1.2368, meaning that in counties such as Denmark, where VAT is 25%, it's cheaper to use the EU store than the US store.

As an example, let's consider a new game at 50€ / 50$. If I used the US store I had to add 25% to the 50$ = 62.5$ = 50.53€. The EU store would be 50€ = 61.84$.


(Natually, the US is still cheaper for countries with lower VAT)

[Drakeer Melkhor]

Welcome to the real world.

Go play.

[StingingVelvet]

@StingingVelvet: I live in a relatively poor country - Poland, with a average monthly salary of roughly 600€ (after tax) - also Poland is not in Euro zone. I totally agree that poorer countries should have cheaper games, as you yourself wrote. So I was in complete agreement with you, until I checked the actual prices on steam and realised that Steam charges me MORE than people living in US or UK, where average income is 2-3 time higher than here.
So how is that for fair pricing and giving poorer countries lower prices? I know many gamers and believe me, NOONE in Poland (ok, maybe the richest and/or the laziest people) buys on Steam because from our perspective (600€ salary and high unemployment among young people) the prices on Steam are absurd, totally disconnected from our reality. In retail a new PC game costs no more than 20-25€ (and it is usually localized in Polish, so there are additional costs). On steam new games often cost 50€, which is almost 10% of an average monthly income in Poland. Good percentage, I am sure if games in US were priced at almost 10% of average monthly income, everybody would buy them in bulk on steam.

So if what you wrote was actually happening (Steam is differentiating game prices according to incomes) games on steam would cost half of what they cost now.

So imagine yourself earning slightly less then 800 bucks a month and paying 50 bucks for a game on steam. Thats how majority of potential Steam clients in Poland feel.

Well that's unfortunate. It seems like Valve treat Europe as a whole as one solid place, which is not fair to many countries like yours.

[LordKuruku]

Wow, this topic is still alive? Man, I'd love to earn anywhere near $800 a month myself. I usually get $150-$250 a month myself, the most in the last 7 years being about $285. Not that it has anything to do with your problem. It's my own damn fault, but I still make more than my parents ever did, and I'm frugal enough to be able to play computer games in the first place.

I enjoy life, but I doubt anybody would ever agree with me if I said I deserve to be wealthy. I used to work quite hard, making minimum wage or better, but I've just never been very healthy, the stress was turning me from a kind-hearted, laid back person into a sadistic and violent one with total contempt and disgust for human life, to the point where seeing other people in pain was the only thing that gave me any pleasure in life anymore, decided that my work was a fool's game that was destroying me, and that I'd much rather be dead.

Imagine earning $200 a month and spending a QUARTER of that on Steam. I consider sale prices to be "normal" prices, and normal prices more than $5 to be strictly verboten. I just wanted to put my own spin on things, haha.

Valve should adjust prices in accordance to different regions and whatnot, but like in my case, it's not like I'll ever be paying quite the same price as most other people. I wouldn't worry too much, life is too short to get too serious over this. I'm personally more concerned with Valve getting rid of "setinfo name" for TF2 than any monetary issues.

There is so very, very much money in the world, and games have only gotten cheaper and cheaper. Out of all that money in the world, I'll never have enough of it in this lifetime to ever be able to raise a child with the love and care I never knew, it's a cruel truth that's tormented me most of my adult life, but you know, you'll be able to get any game at a good price if you wait long enough, and by comparison, waiting a year for a game to get cheaper is rather brief. So, try not to worry about the price and just play it. ;)

[novayuna]

Can someone help me on this VAT thing, please?

EU prices already include VAT.

But if I buy in the US Steam Store (as an American living the USA), do I have to pay more than the 50$ shown in the store page?


As of we cannot buy games in other SteamStores than the one determined by our IP adress (EU, GBP, USD), the example from Skaerv doesn't match. This may fit for people in other countries who have to use the US SteamStore and then have to pay taxes in their country - and those get the same USD price [except Australians :'(].

If I'd pay 50€ * 1,25 $/€ = 62,5$ for a game and an US American would pay 50$ for it - is this fair? [The Euro was way stronger in the past...].

[nautsch]

Can someone help me on this VAT thing, please?

EU prices already include VAT.

But if I buy in the US Steam Store (as an American living the USA), do I have to pay more than the 50$ shown in the store page?


Yes. VAT for the price in $ is added on checkout. So you would have to pay more than the $50 that is shown on the store page.

If I'd pay 50€ * 1,25 $/€ = 62,5$ for a game and an US American would pay 50$ for it - is this fair? [The Euro was way stronger in the past...].

The US American is also paying VAT, but dependent on the state their are living in. The Euro Steam store now says, that VAT is included, no matter where you live in the "Euro zone". So Valve gets more money, the lower the VAT is in the specific country.

The 1$ = 1€ situation is a problem where the Euro price is so much higher, that the already included tax does not compensate for it. (In Germany for example that would be 19%). Which sadly is the case for most games.

[novayuna]

Hmm I once bought a game on Steam when I was on Chicago (IL) with my German credit card, and afaik I didn't pay any tax. o.o Is there an overview on the VAT in the U.S. (states, cities)?

[maul_inc]

What I don't get about the "♥♥♥♥♥♥" of EU costumers is, that for years I have been reading articles about Europe being the most troubled region in the world when it comes gaming Piracy.
So if that is true, why do they try to combat piracy with insane pricing and VAT schemes???
To me that doesn't make any sense, as they will just encourage pirates to continue doing what the do.

[mchufnagel]

Hmm I once bought a game on Steam when I was on Chicago (IL) with my German credit card, and afaik I didn't pay any tax. o.o Is there an overview on the VAT in the U.S. (states, cities)?

In the USA, the federal governmenrt doesn't charge any type of sales tax or VAT. Most states (and some local governments) do though. But a company doesn't have to charge your states sales tax unless the company has a physical presence in that state. Now people are "supposed" to be honest and report internet purchases to their state. Where I live the state income tax form has a spot to report this and then the sales tax is added to your tax burden. I actually do report this (because my wife is a very honest person). But most people just laugh at this requirement.

[StingingVelvet]

In the USA, the federal governmenrt doesn't charge any type of sales tax or VAT. Most states (and some local governments) do though. But a company doesn't have to charge your states sales tax unless the company has a physical presence in that state. Now people are "supposed" to be honest and report internet purchases to their state. Where I live the state income tax form has a spot to report this and then the sales tax is added to your tax burden. I actually do report this (because my wife is a very honest person). But most people just laugh at this requirement.

Most people don't even file state tax returns.

[Simplex]

Well that's unfortunate. It seems like Valve treat Europe as a whole as one solid place, which is not fair to many countries like yours.

Actually, it's not. For some reason UK (being geographically and geopolitically part of Europe) is treated separatly and gets on average lower prices, sometimes even lower than the US itself! (and let's not forget that UK has ca. 17% VAT).

Great example: THQ Pack. Just look at the price difference and tell me that steam prices make any sense at all:
http://www.steamprices.com/us/search?THQ+pack

[ForumHelper]

Holy crap, http://www.steamprices.com/us/search?mass+effect+2 Thats about 54,2% more for europe.

[briankearon666]

Holy crap, http://www.steamprices.com/us/search?mass+effect+2 Thats about 54,2% more for europe.

Get it on D2D now. It's onlt $19.99.

[Kossak]

Holy crap, http://www.steamprices.com/us/search?mass+effect+2 Thats about 54,2% more for europe.

Get it on D2D now. It's onlt $19.99.

Or - if you live in Europe (Poland) - get it for about $11 with 25% discount coupon (doesn't work outside Europe). I did it (Polish EA Store) and it works perfectly :)

[ForumHelper]

Yeah, I live in Poland. But the only thing that stops me from buying ME 2 in EA store is that there is no steam-like download whenever you like and having like 6 months for downloading it is crappy.

EDIT: And it's back for 149PLN :/

[Toto pectore]

ME2 is for £19.95 on UK D2D and UK GamersGate

♥♥♥♥ Steam with it's restrictions.

[briankearon666]

ME2 is for £19.95 on UK D2D and UK GamersGate

♥♥♥♥ Steam with it's restrictions.

As far as I know, you can go to the US site and actually pay $19.99 plus tax for it. That's even cheaper. I did it with Transformers yesterday.

[luckyluke304]

Woah i feel so sorry for all Europeans this is really screwed up :(

[viehrea_siili]

Yeah, this is the only bad thing I can think about steam.

[Kossak]

Yeah, I live in Poland. But the only thing that stops me from buying ME 2 in EA store is that there is no steam-like download whenever you like and having like 6 months for downloading it is crappy.

EDIT: And it's back for 149PLN :/

How do you know about this period of 6 months for download? I think this is not true, because I wrote to EA support last year, asked about it, and they say i can re-download the game whenever i want.

The price of ME2 is now back to its normal state but now i wait for similar Dragon Age price reduction :) And steam deals are nothing (i mean previous ea deal week) in comparison to ea store deals.

I also didn't have any problems with their EA download manager. Sure it doesn't have such functionality as steam, but you can download the game whenever you want and it installs it as it should. I don't need it to do anything more and especially i don't need it to run every time i run the game.

-- edit --
i wrote to EA again and they said that some games can be download whenever i want and some have specific period of download (minimum 2 years).

[strandedPL]

If there really is a 6 months download limitation that sucks. I'll ask EA Support about this.

[Kossak]

If there really is a 6 months download limitation that sucks. I'll ask EA Support about this.

Not 6 months, but minimum 2 years and it can differ from game to game (some can be downloaded any time forever). I also wrote to them asking about all my games and their expiration date :)

[TJF588]

Heh, mere minutes after leaving this thread, I see this in my RSS feed(s): UK game retailers facing pricing challenge due to VAT increase (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/07/02/uk-game-retailers-facing-pricing-challenge-due-to-vat-increase/)

[Evil_Warhead]

the thing that there cut games make me more angry then this^^

[epsylon_Z1]

I wish , i can see this on the store's front page .

Product pricing currently shown for; Region: HU, Currency: USD.

[zugu]

Activision does it again:

Starcraft 2 US version: $60
Starcraft 2 EU version: €60 that means ~$80

Publishers will milk us for as long as possible.

[Simplex]

Be happy, few months back €60 was $96 ;)
And if you are in EU, DO NOT BUY STARCRAFT 2 ON STEAM. It's a ripoff.

[R0TTENCAT]

Before you consider to buy MAFIA 2, please read my post here. (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1375785)

[novayuna]

Great offer on Amazon.de (http://www.amazon.de/StarCraft-II-Wings-of-Liberty/dp/B000R5DU6E) for Starcraft II: €38.99

[Sirius Cobra]

Be happy, few months back €60 was $96 ;)
And if you are in EU, DO NOT BUY STARCRAFT 2 ON STEAM. It's a ripoff.

As seeing as thats not even possible, then that is not a problem.

[GisleAune]

It is still cheaper than many shops in Norway.

And i'd like to say thanks to all the companies, ecspecially indies that try to make the prices equal. :)

And 90% of Steam games I have bought online is through sales.

[Trashcantoy]

Be happy, few months back €60 was $96 ;)
And if you are in EU, DO NOT BUY STARCRAFT 2 ON STEAM. It's a ripoff.
its not sold on steam...
trolls these days.. dont even bother to check the steam store :>

[Toto pectore]

New version of Comparison script for Firefox, Chrome and Opera is out: http://steamunpowered.eu/comparison-script-steam-unpowered-edition/

[DanMan3395]

I still don't get why Denmark, Sweden and Norway has to use Euros...
It's not our local currency, so why can't we be excepted like the UK is?

I don't wish to be mean and this isn't meant as derisive but the reason is literally that Scandinavia is not relevant in the world stage economically.

Each currency the company accepts costs them money in banking overhead. So the question is would it make money or cost money to accept Scandinavian currencies? Unfortunately because of the small size and even smaller gaming community in these regions it can only cost money to do that.

[Pheace]

New version of Comparison script for Firefox, Chrome and Opera is out: http://steamunpowered.eu/comparison-script-steam-unpowered-edition/

I don't know why but for some reason I feel uneasy letting a script loose on the same page that I enter my steam details on.

I think I'll wait a while, see how it goes for other people, nice as it seems.

[Emerald]

Get it on D2D now. It's onlt $19.99.

It's back to 39$ and it says "US and Canada only"

[Zuko]

I don't know why but for some reason I feel uneasy letting a script loose on the same page that I enter my steam details on.

I think I'll wait a while, see how it goes for other people, nice as it seems.

You can always check source code. Script is 100% legit.

Works ONLY on: http://store.steampowered.com/app/* and http://store.steampowered.com/sub/*

If you have any questions, pleaase ask on http://steamunpowered.eu/comparison-script-steam-unpowered-edition/#comments

[R0TTENCAT]

I don't know why but for some reason I feel uneasy letting a script loose on the same page that I enter my steam details on.

You can also use independent browser you usually do not use at all (Internet Explorer) and do all other things using Firefox.

[Dragoon1]

I don't know why but for some reason I feel uneasy letting a script loose on the same page that I enter my steam details on.

I think I'll wait a while, see how it goes for other people, nice as it seems.

You should make your purchases only through the Steam client and not the web browser, thus use the script as reference only.
I for myself feel uneasy to enter my Steam credentials anywhere except into the Steam Client.

[Sasquatchsliper]

I don't know why but for some reason I feel uneasy letting a script loose on the same page that I enter my steam details on.

I think I'll wait a while, see how it goes for other people, nice as it seems."Better safe than sorry" :D

I understand it's a bit strange to let a script run "behind", but there's no reason to be really "afraid" :

you can look into the source
you can desactivate it (in Greasemonkey menu or simply by turning off Greasemonkey (the little monkey face at the bottom-right)
you can (and should imo) only buy through the Steam client.


I tried it, it works fine and ESET NOD32 v4 didn't detected anything dangerous :)

[strandedPL]

OVER 1 000 000!

[Sparkey]

OVER 1 000 000!

Party time!! :D

[joeangry]

Party time!! :D

STOP! Hammer time!:cool:

[kikox]

So the citizens of USA can get games cheaper than most people...OMG!

[Zukabazuka]

So the citizens of USA can get games cheaper than most people...OMG!

where price difference can be about 10-20 dollars, yeah its a big issue.

[kikox]

GIGA issue

[Ptolemaeus]

I still think this sucks. Especially since the Worms release. I'm not gonna pay 20% more...

[epsylon_Z1]

I still think this sucks. Especially since the Worms release. I'm not gonna pay 20% more...
a, find someone who can gift it to you
b, wait for a better deal ( 50% off )
c, wait for a non- Steam release
d, dont't buy

[Sparkey]

a, find someone who can gift it to you
b, wait for a better deal ( 50% off )
c, wait for a non- Steam release
d, dont't buy

Thank you, captain obvious, but we would like option e, the same price that everyone else pays for it.

[epsylon_Z1]

Thank you, captain obvious, but we would like option e, the same price that everyone else pays for it.Your welcome :p
By the way, greetings from an EU country.

[Kossak]

Congratulations STEAM - 1 million of viewers of this thread $1 = €1.

@Valve: after 2 years we didn't forget about this rip-off on most of the games. I still think this is not quite fair.

[Pheace]

Thank you, captain obvious, but we would like option e, the same price that everyone else pays for it.

Take up World Economics 101. Not gonna happen.

I agree they are fleecing us on the pricing to a decent extent. It's however probably never going to be the same 'fairly' since there simply ARE extra costs involved when catering to every EU country separately.

[Daemonhell]

Still have to thank my UK friend for buying a 4-L4D2-pack with me. Saved me some bucks.

What about the price difference between countries using the same money ?

[Raefzm]

more than 75% of games that i buy ( and i buy _alot_ of games every month ) is cheaper in retail than in steam. Wich is sad, because i'd rather have the game on steam than on retail. However, pretty much every game i buy, i found on steam for twice the price, sometimes more. Only Steam sales when they have good prices ( like FlatOut for 4€ etc. during the summer sale) do i found games to be cheaper , or equal in a real price.
Steam's distribution is bull♥♥♥♥♥, sad really since i like steam in general.

Some games are actually so overpriced, that it is like a ♥♥♥ joke. For example, Crysis - complete pack, 29.99€ (and from what i can tell this is cheaper than it used to be.)
I bought the exact same package in retail local gamestore. I payed 6€. Not during a sale. Brand new.
This is just one of hundreds of titles, i just picked one random game from my list. Anyway, if there weren't for the mostly bad prices on steam, i would certainly buy all my games there.

[Sasquatchsliper]

I still find it weird that on the internet, people have differents rights depending on where they're connecting.

Doesn't Internet supposed to get over the borders nationalism bullcrap ?

The system right now is not fully equal (same price for everyone), nor depending on each country or citizen wealth (prices based on PPP), what's the point ?

In my opinion we only inherited the price scheme of the retail-store-publishing market from the early 90', which means Steam didn't changed much if not anything at all, us, consumers, are still fully under the omnipotent Publishers rules.

Oh yea, now few indies can sell their games too. But the prices are still unfair if the devs don't specify it, that's just BS.

[bloodypalace]

http://www.steamprices.com/us/topripoffs/100/box

Yes OP, this is fair ha? ;)

[dougla2]

http://www.steamprices.com/us/topripoffs/100/box

Yes OP, this is fair ha? ;)

dollars aren't worth as much as euros those prices are fair, most prices for new games europeans pay way to much.

[Sparkey]

http://www.steamprices.com/us/topripoffs/100/box

Yes OP, this is fair ha? ;)

That's good new news. Now we get some Americans to join our side as well :-)

[vempajor]

$1 = €1

Still...

The biggest problem of Steam.

:(

[Toto pectore]

$1 = €1 is not problem for me anymore. But I have to correct it to "$1+VAT = €1". And not every country has 20% VAT...

Bigger problem is, those prices on Steam are too high compared to other sources.

[iCuE]

Maybe Gabe watch this...




...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im6yRpQrsaY

[davis776]

Look at this super deal :)

Bad Company 2 - US (29,99$) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=us)
Bad Company 2 - EU (49,99€) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=fr)

[anzy]

Yeah, these prices really do set me off. It's becoming more and more like $1 = 1.5€, as if the previous policy wasn't enough.

[Simplex]

$1 = €1 is not problem for me anymore. But I have to correct it to "$1+VAT = €1". And not every country has 20% VAT...
VAT on Steam sounds like a scam to me - somehow Telltalle and GoG.com do not charge vat from European customers (I mean they have prices in dollars which are the same for US and EU customers).

Yeah, these prices really do set me off. It's becoming more and more like $1 = 1.5€, as if the previous policy wasn't enough.
No suprise here - few months back 1euro was 1.6 dollar, now it's 1.3 dollar, so in order for the ripoff to continue, prices must rise.

[Gryzor]

Look at this super deal :)

Bad Company 2 - US (29,99$) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=us)
Bad Company 2 - EU (49,99€) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=fr)

This is INSANE.

[Pheace]

This is INSANE.

It's an unfair comparison. They simply reduced price in the US region already. This stuff happens all the time.

[Gryzor]

It's an unfair comparison. They simply reduced price in the US region already. This stuff happens all the time.

Load of crap, since it's also 29.99 UK£ and the UK are / should be the same as Europe. I've been checking various games and it seems to follow the same recipe across the board. Dirt cheap in the US, insanely expensive in the EU and right in between in the UK. Unbelievable this has not been brought more general attention. This needs to get up on European news sites.

[hackeriss.lv]

Have anybody seen any admin ansfer about this? :D

[BreenGuyLOL]

I'd like to share that i live in Bulgaria. the currency is Levs. 1 euro = 2 levs. 1 pound = 3 levs. 1 dollar = 1.6 levs. now you can understand how steam is becoming into a scam.

[Pheace]

Load of crap, since it's also 29.99 UK£ and the UK are / should be the same as Europe. I've been checking various games and it seems to follow the same recipe across the board. Dirt cheap in the US, insanely expensive in the EU and right in between in the UK. Unbelievable this has not been brought more general attention. This needs to get up on European news sites.

My point was that the game was released at the same dollar price as the EU had Euro pricing.

This is simply a case of the prices already having been lowered in the other regions. You're making it sound like they were this price difference all along.

[arturins5]

Look at this super deal :)

Bad Company 2 - US (29,99$) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=us)
Bad Company 2 - EU (49,99€) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=fr)

WHAT THE ♥♥♥♥?!

CMON STEAM, 2 years and still no fix about 1Euro IS NOT 1Dollar

[panzaaa]

yea its a shame

[arturins5]

this should be up all the time :)

[real4xor]

Would they have the same mixup if it was with Lires?

Looks like 1$ = 1 Lire after all?

[KSMF]

Look at this super deal :)

Bad Company 2 - US (29,99$) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=us)
Bad Company 2 - EU (49,99€) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=fr)

Ridiculous :(

EDIT:
gameplay.co.uk has the game to £16,99.

Vote with your wallet, I do, Valve is only selling to me when games are on 75%off deals.

...

[Ramzuz]

Look at this super deal :)

Bad Company 2 - US (29,99$) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=us)
Bad Company 2 - EU (49,99€) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/24960/?cc=fr)

This is why you shouldn't buy games from Steam... (Finland) the only ones worth the money are the ones on special discounts.

[Sparkey]

This is why you shouldn't buy games from Steam... (Finland) the only ones worth the money are the ones on special discounts.

That's what I only buy too, when the games are at least 50% off. Otherwise I buy it cheaper elsewhere (or on ebay) and add the key to steam myself.

[Jimmy Damage]

Because it's awesome!

[Sparkey]

why are people still posting in this thread?

Because the situation is still unchanged.

[Pheace]

Because the situation is still unchanged.

You're looking at the wrong party. Steam is not going to do something about this. It's the publishers you need to look at.

As long as the publishers price their games differently in different economic zones, then Steam needs to follow up, or they will lose their publisher support.

If you have 2 steam like services, but one sells in dollars and one sells in euro's, who do you think the publisher will go to to sell their product?

If Steam with it's popularity sells in dollars then eventually the EU brick and mortar shops will stop selling at the prices publishers sell them at and stop stocking those games.

Steam moving to different pricing for economic zones is a logical evolution as far as I can tell, and unfortunately a necessary one, even though as a consumer it doesn't make me happy.

Feel free to correct my thinking (with some actual thinking, not whines)

[BreenGuyLOL]

aaand who the ♥♥♥♥ cares about this title. no srsly.

[Sparkey]

You're looking at the wrong party. Steam is not going to do something about this. It's the publishers you need to look at.

You say nothing that hasn't been addressed in this thread already, but I'll humour you.

You're looking at the wrong party. Steam is not going to do something about this. It's the publishers you need to look at.

Valve is a publisher, and they also have a lot of say in what prices other publishers set on Steam.

If you have 2 steam like services, but one sells in dollars and one sells in euro's, who do you think the publisher will go to to sell their product?

The one that generates the most revenue. Setting higher prices often means fewer sales and lower revenue.

If Steam with it's popularity sells in dollars then eventually the EU brick and mortar shops will stop selling at the prices publishers sell them at and stop stocking those games.

Or the brick and mortar shops will also sell at lower prices. Most of the games on Steam are cheaper at the local brick and mortar shops already, and they come with physical box, manual and media.

The one dollar = one euro is not in any way a well thought out, economically balanced and responsible financial strategy. It is a lazy move aimed at getting more money easily. There is no other motivation behind it than greed and apathy.

But regardless of Valve's motivation, we used to pay the same price and now we have to pay a lot more, without getting anything more. Do you really expect people to roll over and go "Oh well, too bad, never mind."? If we don't speak up things will never change, and that's why this thread is here and active.

[BreenGuyLOL]

just quit steam. that looks like a good decision.

[Pheace]

Valve is a publisher, and they also have a lot of say in what prices other publishers set on Steam.

It doesn't work that way. If they force the publisher to set lower prices there's no reason for them to stay here. There's other direct download services offering euro pricing, and if they are the sole DD source, people who want those games WILL buy there

The one that generates the most revenue. Setting higher prices often means fewer sales and lower revenue.

'Higher prices' are relative. Clearly, we still buy the games, simply because we have no other options, and beyond the people here who *were* used to seeing dollar prices, I'd bet the bulk of the people who buy games, simply don't know better in the first place when it comes to pricing in the EU.

Or the brick and mortar shops will also sell at lower prices. Most of the games on Steam are cheaper at the local brick and mortar shops already, and they come with physical box, manual and media.

Pricing in brick and mortars always goes down after release, that has nothing to do with dollar versus euro. There's no chance a publisher is going to lower their B&M advised selling price for the whole of EU just so they can offer dollar prices for Steam. And if that doesn't happen, then Steam can't be set lower than the B&M's or they will consider that unfair and decide not to stock the game.

And for me personally, Steam in itself is a service as well. I don't care for the box, etc. I want a service where I can download where-ever, whenever I want. I know the costs won't be 1-1 but don't make it sound like DD only takes away from the store product, it doesn't.

The one dollar = one euro is not in any way a well thought out, economically balanced and responsible financial strategy. It is a lazy move aimed at getting more money easily. There is no other motivation behind it than greed and apathy.

But regardless of Valve's motivation, we used to pay the same price and now we have to pay a lot more, without getting anything more. Do you really expect people to roll over and go "Oh well, too bad, never mind."? If we don't speak up things will never change, and that's why this thread is here and active.

This last part, I don't necessarily disagree with. I don't agree that prices for games should be this high, and I think the conversion is taken far too high when it pertains to EU pricing.

BUT, that still doesn't mean that Steam (and other services) moving to Euro pricing isn't still the logical next step for DD services. Economically it makes perfect sense for both Steam and the publishers combined with the differing economic zones. This system, compared to an only dollar store, simply offers more to publishers, and thus will get more support. Steam is growing, partly BECAUSE of this pricing system.


onetwoten

[Sparkey]

It doesn't work that way. If they force the publisher to set lower prices there's no reason for them to stay here. There's other direct download services offering euro pricing, and if they are the sole DD source, people who want those games WILL buy there

Actually, they more often try to make publishers set the euro instead of the other way around. Some publishers insist on setting fair prices (and I applaud them for it :D). But I'll be happy if Valve only set the prices of their own games to a fair amount.

'Higher prices' are relative. Clearly, we still buy the games, simply because we have no other options, and beyond the people here who *were* used to seeing dollar prices, I'd bet the bulk of the people who buy games, simply don't know better in the first place when it comes to pricing in the EU.

Ignorance of the masses is no good motivation for me to accept it. The people who weren't used to see the dollar prices still see the difference in price between brick and mortar shops and online. And those who don't should be informed. This thread is a great method for doing so. I'm also not sure what you mean with "Higher prices are relative", other than the fact that higher prices are relative to lower prices.

Pricing in brick and mortars always goes down after release, that has nothing to do with dollar versus euro.

You're right. But if publishers set the euro to match prices in the brick and mortars, why don't the prices online go down when they go down in the shops as well?

There's no chance a publisher is going to lower their B&M advised selling price for the whole of EU just so they can offer dollar prices for Steam.

They probably would if they realized they would make more sales and more profit that way.

BUT, that still doesn't mean that Steam (and other services) moving to Euro pricing isn't still the logical next step for DD services. Economically it makes perfect sense for both Steam and the publishers combined with the differing economic zones. This system, compared to an only dollar store, simply offers more to publishers, and thus will get more support. Steam is growing, partly BECAUSE of this pricing system.

I only see the logic in it if you have narrowminded shortterm goals. If Valve set lower prices (if only for their own products), I believe they would grow faster still. It is certainly easier for publishers to go with the 1$=1e conversion, but they would be too optimistic to expect people not to complain about it.

Do you have any proof that Steam is growing because of this pricing system?

You state you also don't like the higher pricing. Because of taxes I can understand a small increase, but nothing like the 40%+ we have seen. And you seem to agree with that. But at the same time you seem to think it's best for everyone that this happens, which I don't completely understand. :confused:

[flokokola]

Over a 1 000 000 views... Oh my god.

[MithranArkanere]

A loaf of french bread won't have the same place in every country, and no one complains about that. It's true that when it comes to digital distribution you don't have the problem of having to pay more for transportation, but there are still taxes and standards.

[Sparkey]

A loaf of french bread won't have the same place in every country, and no one complains about that. It's true that when it comes to digital distribution you don't have the problem of having to pay more for transportation, but there are still taxes and standards.

Not just transport costs, also local labour wages and everything. None of these things apply online though - it doesn't cost Valve a dime extra per game to supply to Europe than it does to America. Perhaps a few cents at most. The only thing that could go on top is sales tax, and I'm fine with that.

[Protoss]

There is the server cost, for the Steam servers in Europe. However, I don't think they are too high (a few ten thousand Euros maybe?)

[Simplex]

Plus, there is still this completely crazy differences between prices in UK and the rest of EU. Is UK really such a different country with different prices, costs, taxes, etc that it warrants a separate price?

[Trashcantoy]

why are people still posting in this thread?
because they want to buy from steam but wont cause of the "high" prices

imo the whole dollars vs euros debate is retarted, only when publishers lower the price of a game with 20 dollars but leave the euro price at 50 i get annoyed.

[Richard7666]

Plus, there is still this completely crazy differences between prices in UK and the rest of EU. Is UK really such a different country with different prices, costs, taxes, etc that it warrants a separate price?

Yes, as it uses a different currency. Out of interest do other European countries, EU or otherwise, which don't use the Euro have different prices to Eurozone countries?

[Sparkey]

Yes, as it uses a different currency. Out of interest do other European countries, EU or otherwise, which don't use the Euro have different prices to Eurozone countries?

European countries such as Norway or Denmark that have their own currency are made to pay in Euro's.

[Simplex]

Yes, as it uses a different currency.
So what? My country (Poland) does not use Euro currency and I still have to pay in Euros. Does that make sense?
Even if UK uses different currency it still does not explain why games are cheaper there (sometimes even cheaper than in US - and UK has ca. 17% VAT!).

Out of interest do other European countries, EU or otherwise, which don't use the Euro have different prices to Eurozone countries?
UK is the ONLY non euro country that does not pay in euro, all other countries (eu members or not) are forced to pay in euro even if this is not their national currency. Gratz to steam.

[strandedPL]

European countries such as Norway or Denmark that have their own currency are made to pay in Euro's.

Poland too. Paying in Euros in here means paying 4 times more. :eek:

[Kossak]

Poland too. Paying in Euros in here means paying 4 times more. :eek:

nobody from Poland buys on steam anyway (unless there's a good promotion), so i hope Valve is happy with what they achieved.

[MALICE00]

The funny thing is, I had some problems with Click and Buy the other day and used my credit-card to order... Guess what it says on the bill?

Steam - UK!!!!! And I'm from Austria (with a Dutch credit-card!)!

Now why the ♥♥♥♥ can't I be billed in Pound Sterling when you are billing me from the UK anyway? Might've saved a couple of euros...

[Trashcantoy]

Poland too. Paying in Euros in here means paying 4 times more. :eek:
Poland is tier2 Europe

besides, polish players dont use steam at all, do it doesnt really matter that its high priced :P

[Kossak]

Poland is tier2 Europe

besides, polish players dont use steam at all, do it doesnt really matter that its high priced :P

Where are you from, friend? I guess you haven't heard about any Poles in the internet at all :). Cause i'm from Poland and somehow i have > 180 games on steam and i haven't bought even 1 game directly from steam for full price. All the games are from Polish shops (registrable on steam) or weekend steam deals and/or gifted by friends from outside Poland. I use steam actually everyday, so saying that Polish players don't use steam at all is a bit exaggerated :D. I would better say: we don't buy from steam, and not we don't use steam.



Now why the ♥♥♥♥ can't I be billed in Pound Sterling when you are billing me from the UK anyway? Might've saved a couple of euros...

because then steam wouldn't ripped you off! and such a loss in money for them would be unforgivable :)

[Simplex]

Poland is tier2 Europe

besides, polish players dont use steam at all

You are absolutely right, here's proof:
http://www.steamcalculator.com/id/simplexpl/eu

NOT.

(Of course most of that was bought on sales, in packs, or gifted so it's not really worth as much).

[MysticX]

well, Icelanders pay in USD :) I like that...especially for BIG PAX! so I can ask people over there buy games for me and gift it :)

[Kub666]

Poland is tier2 Europe

besides, polish players dont use steam at all, do it doesnt really matter that its high priced :P

Hai troll. My 133 games disagree.

Besides the point of this thread is to show how Steam rips off EU customers, not the lack of non-euro currencies.

[Simplex]

well, Icelanders pay in USD :) I like that...especially for BIG PAX! so I can ask people over there buy games for me and gift it :)

Another proof of steam's unfairness. Why Iceland has the dollar? It is geographically in Europe and it even applied for EU membership.

[Tiphareth80]

There's no way I'm reading 500+ pages of replies, I just wanted to know if anyone from valve has answred yet...

[Silphatos]

I'm glad that I don't have to pay with Euro in Turkey.

[Kub666]

There's no way I'm reading 500+ pages of replies, I just wanted to know if anyone from valve has answred yet...
I don't think so - but they did ban a guy that started this thread and they were censoring this thread like crazy some time ago.

[Kossak]

There's no way I'm reading 500+ pages of replies, I just wanted to know if anyone from valve has answred yet...

i don't think so. In steam store beta they said "we're looking into it" (or something like that) and after 2 years they are still looking into it :)

[brotrrwinner]

And they'll continue looking into it... until the end of time. Just as I'll continue not buying on Steam (I'll have my American friends gift them to me)

[sneakbyte]

waiting for an answer

[Kossak]

it's no use waiting for any answer - they are ignoring us all the time. Besides everyone found they way not bo buy in € for full price - either friends outsite of EU or other shops, or deals.

[banoonoo5]

just get a friend from us or someting to buy you it and you will pay him

[DanniV8]

Do you know of ANY country in Europe that doesn't pay in Euros?

[Sparkey]

Do you know of ANY country in Europe that doesn't pay in Euros?

England and Iceland, don't know of any others.

[Lamperi]

At least United Kingdom and Sweden come to my mind but there are other countries who don't use euros.

[DanniV8]

At least United Kingdom and Sweden come to my mind but there are other countries who don't use euros.

I was actually talking about in Steam. I know the Nordic Countries don't use Euros as their currency but from what I've read here these countries pay in Euros in Steam.

So the UK pay in pounds, Iceland in dollars and the rest of Europe in Euros?

[Sparkey]

I was actually talking about in Steam. I know the Nordic Countries don't use Euros as their currency but from what I've read here these countries pay in Euros in Steam.

So the UK pay in pounds, Iceland in dollars and the rest of Europe in Euros?

People seem to have a hard time reading your original question, but I think you're right with your last statement.

[Emerald]

Do you know of ANY country in Europe that doesn't pay in Euros?


Any country that isn't in the European Union but still in Europe dosen't use Euros, mostly.

[Simplex]

Any country that isn't in the European Union but still in Europe dosen't use Euros, mostly.

He already explained that he meant paying in euros on steam.

[BreenGuyLOL]

will you people quit the girly OHH AN EURO IS A DOLLAR bs already!

[geronimo789]

And why should we do that ? Sure there are people who are worse off (Australia for example) but the problem doesn't go away by ignoring it.
While it is unfair that a said game costs 30$ it is EUR 30, you should also consider that for most countries the prices during a sale are far lower then retail prices, even in bargain bins.
I hate the fact that I have to pay more for the same thing then someone else, even if it is but $0.01. But i hear what you're saying, some folks are really exagerating it.

[mouton]

will you people quit the girly OHH AN EURO IS A DOLLAR bs already!
I thank you for bumping this thread, kind Sir.

[Yendor79]

As an EU citizen living in an EU country I play the patient game and NEVER get a full priced Steam game as long as this discrepancy is on...When a sale of at least 50% is out THEN I head in to the title, simple.

[Trashcantoy]

I thank you for bumping this thread, kind Sir.
even when he doesnt someone will bump it with something as "still waiting for an answer"

i like bumping it, just shows the haters that Valve wont fall for these whiny little kids, no matter how much posts this thread will get.

Also, if i should believe certain ppl here its about time we should start seeing results back from lawsuits against the publishers.. ow no wait Valve (for some reason) for unfair pricing. Cmon dont be shy.. which 15 year old here is advocating the measely difference of a few bucks?

[Spathy]

will you people quit the girly OHH AN EURO IS A DOLLAR bs already!

Let me guess you live in America and ignorance is bliss for you?

You probaly also think 60USD is too expensive for a game.

(i'm not having a go at Americans, it's i always notice they whinge about 60dollar games, but when Euros and Australians are getting ripped off above 60USD we get posts like 'will you people quit the girly OHH AN EURO IS A DOLLAR bs already!')

[mouton]

i like bumping it, just shows the haters that Valve wont fall for these whiny little kids, no matter how much posts this thread will get.

Also, if i should believe certain ppl here its about time we should start seeing results back from lawsuits against the publishers.. ow no wait Valve (for some reason) for unfair pricing. Cmon dont be shy.. which 15 year old here is advocating the measely difference of a few bucks?
Well, technically I am one of said little kids. I am in Europe and I kind of got affected by this price hike. It is really not about hate - it's just that a lot of people buy elsewhere now at lower prices. No harm done to us, really.

So you are saying if prices went up 20% overnight you would have no problem with it whatsoever? And you wouldn't go buy to a retail shop when it has price often 40% lower, prices which quickly fall after the release? I mean, it is your choice and your money. People are free to pay much more if they consider themselves loyal to a company, just look at Apple, heh heh

[Sparkey]

And why should we do that ? Sure there are people who are worse off (Australia for example) but the problem doesn't go away by ignoring it.
While it is unfair that a said game costs 30$ it is EUR 30, you should also consider that for most countries the prices during a sale are far lower then retail prices, even in bargain bins.
I hate the fact that I have to pay more for the same thing then someone else, even if it is but $0.01. But i hear what you're saying, some folks are really exagerating it.

He's trolling dude, just ignore him.

[impar]

Greetings!
As an EU citizen living in an EU country I play the patient game and NEVER get a full priced Steam game as long as this discrepancy is on...When a sale of at least 50% is out THEN I head in to the title, simple.
Or, you can pre-order from an UK online retail shop. It already comes with a 30-50% off, compared to St€am.

[BreenGuyLOL]

Let me guess you live in America and ignorance is bliss for you?

You probaly also think 60USD is too expensive for a game.

(i'm not having a go at Americans, it's i always notice they whinge about 60dollar games, but when Euros and Australians are getting ripped off above 60USD we get posts like 'will you people quit the girly OHH AN EURO IS A DOLLAR bs already!')

actualy i live in europe. and if that 1 dollar being equal to 1 euro is true, then thats like breaking the law or something

[geronimo789]

actualy i live in europe. and if that 1 dollar being equal to 1 euro is true, then thats like breaking the law or something

http://store.steampowered.com/?cc=US

You can browse the shop there with the prices in $ instead of €. And if they really are breaking a law, they keep getting away with it :D

The worst thing i just noticed is the darksiders preorder:

39.99 $

49.99 €

And with
http://store.steampowered.com/?cc=AU You can see that in Australia borderlands costs 80$ ...

[Sparkey]

The worst thing i just noticed is the darksiders preorder:

39.99 $

49.99 €


There's much worse unfortunately, a lot of games are charged double the amount in euros (before conversion), or more:

Star Trek Online: $19.99 vs €49.99
FIFA Manager 09: $9.99 vs €19.99
Sherlock Holmes versus Jack the Ripper: $19.99 vs €39.99

You can check the greatest rip-offs on http://www.steamprices.com. There are also cases where dollar countries are worse off, but not many.

[Assassin1471]

this thread needs locking.

Created in 08, killed, revived in 2010 and now needs locking.

if your not happy with the prices. dont buy anything. how hard can it be?

[Sparkey]

this thread needs locking.

Created in 08, killed, revived in 2010 and now needs locking.

if your not happy with the prices. dont buy anything. how hard can it be?

If you're not happy with this thread, don't read it. How hard can it be?

[Trashcantoy]

Well, technically I am one of said little kids. I am in Europe and I kind of got affected by this price hike. It is really not about hate - it's just that a lot of people buy elsewhere now at lower prices. No harm done to us, really.

So you are saying if prices went up 20% overnight you would have no problem with it whatsoever? And you wouldn't go buy to a retail shop when it has price often 40% lower, prices which quickly fall after the release? I mean, it is your choice and your money. People are free to pay much more if they consider themselves loyal to a company, just look at Apple, heh heh
I live in Europe and yes for a lot of games retail is cheaper, however i dont see the need to keep attacking Valve for it and threatening with (classaction) lawsuits, its pathetic imo. Its just that the haters seem like they are the ones who desperately want to buy everything from Steam because they keep complaining whenever a game is a bit more expensive on Steam (vs retail).

[myname]

Well, I live in Europe, bought three games and that's it. Everything is so expensive. We can't blame Valve. They offer something and you buy it or not. But it's their loss. Higher prices - less customers. Simple as that. I started throwing out cases from my original games because it needs so much space! Argh!

[mouton]

I live in Europe and yes for a lot of games retail is cheaper, however i dont see the need to keep attacking Valve for it and threatening with (classaction) lawsuits, its pathetic imo.
Heh, well, the idea of lawsuits was an overkill and personally I always thought it was silly. But it's not like there is much hate nowadays here. Hate was two years ago when the currency change occurred. Now? It is annoying but people who are aware of this discrepancy simply buy retail if they don't like a price.
Its just that the haters seem like they are the ones who desperately want to buy everything from Steam because they keep complaining whenever a game is a bit more expensive on Steam (vs retail).
Nah. A difference of 20-60% is not a bit, especially when you buy games regularly. But again, we got alternatives, so in the end it is only Valve that loses here. It makes me sad, because I like Valve.
this thread needs locking.
By all means! Then we can discuss this topic in any thread, not just this one.

[TKOCCORP]

Well, never made any post in Steam forums but I think it is necessary for one time, as I use Steam for years.

There is something that a poster wrote in this topic, and was totally right = Vote with your wallet. But I suggest that this voters add some feedbacks too, to make Valve realize how much they are wrong to use the 1$ = 1€ logic.

So here is my feedback :

I use Steam from years, but I bought in the store; nothing more than 3 games.

3 games.

THREE games.

Respectively, it was DOD:Source (few months before the 1$ = 1€ era), Red Orchestra (in the $1 = 1€ era), and last month it was Civilization IV with addons at 10€. Only because it was not available in a retail shop and as I didn't still get this masterpiece.

Three games.

It would be more, as it is not the only games I bought in the same period, but I refuse to pay more than US players for no valid reasons. Even if today, we can consider that 1$ + VAT = 1€, it was not like this all the time, when euro was at +1,45$.

And it is not the only problem. HOMM V : 29,97$ / 34,97€. Why 34,97€ ? According to the change, it is like a US player would pay 44.25$ to get this game ! Only few bucks, if I read some posts here ? Only f(a)nboys can say that. 44.25 - 29.97 = 14$, this is nearly 50% more than the US price. Hopefully, I bought it with addons for 15€ in a retail shop, brand new.

I wonder how much players have a list of games as big as mine ^^ and so how much money Valve didn't get because of this politic.

[Audioslave_88]

Just wanted to be a part of this great thread... :D
IMO its the publishers that set the game prices not valve, so steam is not to blame for...
and thank god i live in a $ country, so i dont have to pay extra in euros...

and blizzard is also doing the same, they are charging 60Euros for SC2 here, even though euro is not the market currency here :mad:

[cwbys21]

I'm sure this has been said somewhere in the 528 pages, but I just thought that I would add to points here right quick.

1)$50 is before taxes in the US, 50 euro is after taxes over there.

2)Europe, as a whole, sells a lot of software. Each country individually, doesn't. There are 27 countries in the EU that use 23 different languages (according to wiki at least). That is having to translate all the dialog in the game for menus, things written on the wall in a game like Left 4 Dead etc. That also means 23 different groups of voice actors to do all the lines in each language or paying one person more money to redo all the lines in multiple languages. For example, say there is 500,000 copies sold of a game all across Europe, 30,000 could be sold in Italy, but they still have to pay Italian voice actors to do all the lines for those 30,000 sales. Sure they could not translate, but that would hurt what little sales they would get in the country.

So take that what you will, I'm sure someone will come and tell me how wrong I am.

[zouave]

I'm sure this has been said somewhere in the 528 pages, but I just thought that I would add to points here right quick.

1)$50 is before taxes in the US, 50 euro is after taxes over there.

2)Europe, as a whole, sells a lot of software. Each country individually, doesn't. There are 27 countries in the EU that use 23 different languages (according to wiki at least). That is having to translate all the dialog in the game for menus, things written on the wall in a game like Left 4 Dead etc. That also means 23 different groups of voice actors to do all the lines in each language or paying one person more money to redo all the lines in multiple languages. For example, say there is 500,000 copies sold of a game all across Europe, 30,000 could be sold in Italy, but they still have to pay Italian voice actors to do all the lines for those 30,000 sales. Sure they could not translate, but that would hurt what little sales they would get in the country.

So take that what you will, I'm sure someone will come and tell me how wrong I am.

I dunno if you are wrong or not but if the games have different languages don't we get those options too? and also we cannot say what you said cause we aren't sure of how many EU users really use the game in different language or in English. Still I don't think different languages should make a difference with prices for people from different areas lol, well just my opinion.

[cwbys21]

Those people still have to be paid and as I understand it, Steam uses a blanket pricing all across Europe, like they do all across America. Like a loaf of bread will cost more in New York City than it would in Montana, but we both pay $50 for a game, same thing in Europe I'm sure where the euro is worth more in some cities/countries than in others. And let me ask you this, if a company didn't deem it worthy to translate their game into your language when they went to sell it in your country, would you still buy it? It would have to be pretty damned good don't you think? It is a gamble really, will a game sell enough to make hiring the voice actors worth the money. And I believe you do get the option to change the language, I just checked some games in my games list and I get the options for multiple languages in Left 4 Dead 1&2, Mass Effect 2, Peggle, Dragon Age, and Dead Space. Games that didn't were Dawn of War 2 and Chaos Rising, Resident Evil 5, World of Goo and Torchlight. (I didn't bother checking any others, that seemed like enough).

[totobol]

What about 1 euro = 1 FF (frech older money)? ^^

It's just a USA strategy to devaluate the euro. You have to pay
more as a european, so it means your money has less value.

USA is not "king of the world" with no reason.

They just highly machiavelic and rule the worldwide market, with
no willing to share their power (for the bad ones, that is those
who reins, the parliament i guess).

This is a european issue. But Europe just bend in front of the mastodon.

Prober

[geronimo789]

And let me ask you this, if a company didn't deem it worthy to translate their game into your language when they went to sell it in your country, would you still buy it?

I wouldn't go about it this way. I myself absolutely DETEST dubbing and translation. I can't remember the last game I actually played in dutch. It would have to be Assassins Creed 2 on the 360. Exactly 10 minutes after that my xbox locale got reset to UK. Those translations are often just google translate (or equivalent) sentences, and it truly does suck.
I can also live with the fact that VAT is included in the € prices, but why is it only the case for some games then ?

[cwbys21]

I wouldn't go about it this way. I myself absolutely DETEST dubbing and translation. I can't remember the last game I actually played in dutch. It would have to be Assassins Creed 2 on the 360. Exactly 10 minutes after that my xbox locale got reset to UK. Those translations are often just google translate (or equivalent) sentences, and it truly does suck.
I can also live with the fact that VAT is included in the € prices, but why is it only the case for some games then ?
what do you mean by some games? And I know what you mean about dubbing, it always annoys me when I buy a game from Japan and the lips don't match. It was kind of funny during the ps2 era, but not anymore.

[geronimo789]

Well, for example the game plain sight costs 10$, 2$ with discount whereas it is 9 and 1.80 eur. We might still have to pay more (don't know the exact exchange rate) but if the heighthened pricess were due to VAT or some other lame tax, why isn't it the case for all games ?
I can hardly imagine a developper reducing their profit margin when a perfectly reasonable explanation is available.

On the vat, I also call bull♥♥♥♥ because not all countries have the same rate: Belgium has 21%, Germany 19 IIRC, ...

And if it were something as simple as VAT, this thread would have been made a sticky with that explanation a LONG time ago.

[Simplex]

Again i present my example - Telltale Store and Good All Games (and Impulse to some extent) sell their games to Europeans for the exact same amount as their price in dollars. Where's vat?

[McKillem]

Im suprised this system hasent been cancelled yet... When this first happend back then i almost exploded.
That you supply european currency is nice and all but make it correct with the actual currency value. A dollar is most definately not a euro. E-mailing steam about this gives me awnsers that don't help you at all.
My service operator mailed me that the prices are equal to the local game store....sorry steam, isent the entire point of your existence to avoid the "middle man" and therefore be cheaper? If not then why would i buy a new game on steam? Apart from the obvious fact i can buy the boxed version on ebay in american dollars, and therefore beeeing a hell of a lot cheaper then steam.

Right now i dont buy anything new, not directly at least. I hunt for interesting weekend deals and that is it. When i want a new game on steam i just collectively buy it with an american friend and let him pay. Or let him "gift" me the game for wich i pay him. Ugly solution to something that should not be a problem.

The profit made by the euro = dollar conversion is direct profit for Valve, and they make that profit just because we are not American. Some people would call that racist.

I honestly feel this stains a very awesome service. Because i love every bit of steam, this euro dollar thing however is just nasty.

[Gumz]

I honestly feel this stains a very awesome service. Because i love every bit of steam, this euro dollar thing however is just nasty.

Well said, this is my one MAJOR gripe about Steam.

[Lusit]

Is the price set by Valve, or the publisher?

[Flashsight]

You could argue that for the same job, you would get paid 3000€ while the other guy 3000$.
Hence the €=$ thing

[Spykirby]

You could argue that for the same job, you would get paid 3000€ while the other guy 3000$.
Hence the €=$ thing

that makes no sense at all...

[Simplex]

You could argue that for the same job, you would get paid 3000€ while the other guy 3000$.
Hence the €=$ thing

Yeah, you could... only that actually you could not, because it is not true and makes absolutely no sense. In poland (which steam charges in Euros) the average pay is about 500 euros, not 3000, and yet games still cost the same.

So you could argue that for the same job I would get paid 500€ while the other guy 3000$.
Hence Steam should lower the prices for me, riiiiight?

[Caelo]

Even in the more wealthy EU "states" the average pay isnt anywhere close to 3000E, more like 2000E.
You also need to take into account that in the EU the taxes are much much higher than in let's say the United States or Cambodja :)

[KSMF]

You could argue that for the same job, you would get paid 3000€ while the other guy 3000$.
Hence the €=$ thing

I guess you don't know anything about the countries in the EU, if you did, you wouldn't write this nonsense.

Low-pay jobs in EU wont pay more than they do in USA, and the TAX is way higher, I for one pay approximately 42% in tax, I bet it's much less in the states.


Ignorance is bliss.

[impar]

Greetings!
My service operator mailed me that the prices are equal to the local game store...
Inform your service operator that since the EU is an open market Steam charges double compared to UK based online retail shops.

No wonder UK has such a strong game sales every year, half of Europe buys from them.

Last time I bought a game from a local shop was in 2005. Then moved to UK online shops, then to Steam and moved back to UK online shops when Steam lost its mind about prices.

[McKillem]

You could argue that for the same job, you would get paid 3000€ while the other guy 3000$.
Hence the €=$ thing

No you can't, in fact you can't even start to go in that direction. Working culture, the way money is spend, and how much any one man makes in a certain profession is NOT the same in the EU as it is in the USA.
Economies differ for a reason.

If you would pull this very same ♥♥♥♥ on ebay people will point at you and laugh.

Internet is borderless, when you sell something for a certain amount of money, the price you ask is the same to anyone, weather the object is for an american or a pakistani right? So then what good argument is there left for steam to have to do this? Go back to the dollars for everyone and your done.

[McKillem]

Greetings!

Inform your service operator that since the EU is an open market Steam charges double compared to UK based online retail shops.

No wonder UK has such a strong game sales every year, half of Europe buys from them.

Last time I bought a game from a local shop was in 2005. Then moved to UK online shops, then to Steam and moved back to UK online shops when Steam lost its mind about prices.

Well i replied that if that was true, wich it probally is, then what valid argument was there left to use steam for new releases? Lets face it. OKay so you can download a game anywhere you are, but apart from that?

[Shenzi]

Internet is borderless, when you sell something for a certain amount of money, the price you ask is the same to anyone, weather the object is for an american or a pakistani right? So then what good argument is there left for steam to have to do this? Go back to the dollars for everyone and your done.

well roared, lion! that says pretty much everything concerning this pathetical matter!

[R0TTENCAT]

I live in EU country where average salary is $1000 month, so please stop telling that I make more money than UK or USA :D

[Vigia]

I'll express my opinion in a very civilized way.

Thank you all those publishers who do the right change between $ and €, cutting the prices below.

All the other who want to "steal" some money from my pocket doing the $=€, go f....... you know what i mean. I'll pray to your company goes down.

[Simplex]

I'll express my opinion in a very civilized way.

Thank you all those publishers who do the right change between $ and €, cutting the prices below.

I also thank those publishers and I express my thanks by buying their games, just now I bought Amnesia: Dark Descent. Amazingly, Steam had the best deal - 20% discount for preorder and euro price was equivalent to dollar price (if not a little lower, even).

[darthpingoo]

Even in the more wealthy EU "states" the average pay isnt anywhere close to 3000E, more like 2000E.
You also need to take into account that in the EU the taxes are much much higher than in let's say the United States or Cambodja :)
In France the average salary is much more like 1500€... ;)
An even with the low change rate with the $ it's strange to have $ prices lower than € prices when 1 € has got more value than 1 $...

[Simplex]

In France the average salary is much more like 1500€... ;)
Be glad, in Poland it's more like 500€ - and we still are supposed to pay 50€ for a game on steam, which means that for an average Polish salary you can buy 10 new games on steam. I really wonder how much games can americans buy on steam for average US salary. I'd guess sixty. (3000$ salary, 50$ for a game - but that's just a guess).

An even with the low change rate with the $ it's strange to have $ prices lower than € prices when 1 € has got more value than 1 $...
That's the whole point - this way they make more money by overcharging you.

[Toto pectore]

I also thank those publishers and I express my thanks by buying their games, just now I bought Amnesia: Dark Descent. Amazingly, Steam had the best deal - 20% discount for preorder and euro price was equivalent to dollar price (if not a little lower, even).

You should pre-order it form Frictional Games' store when it was for 9.98€, you could get everything you have now + Linux version.

[Simplex]

You should pre-order it form Frictional Games' store when it was for 9.98€, you could get everything you have now + Linux version.

Yeah, if I could travel in time, I would do it, believe me.
Unfortunately, at the time I had no idea about the promotion so I did not buy it - this promotion lasted a short time and it was in May. I read about it in june and was really mad I did not check it out earlier (Ironicall, I did but the Humble Indie Bundle).
Truth is, Steam's deal (20% off) was the best deal on the net in September. Also, the exchange rate was fair. According to comparison script the game was even slightly cheaper in euros than in dollars.

[evoleo24]

I guess you don't know anything about the countries in the EU, if you did, you wouldn't write this nonsense.

Low-pay jobs in EU wont pay more than they do in USA, and the TAX is way higher, I for one pay approximately 42% in tax, I bet it's much less in the states.


Ignorance is bliss.

I pay about the same, without medical. I, on average, lose about a whole days pay just on taxes. (USA Live in RI but Work in Mass.)

[Shenzi]

omg! the u.s. dollar just dropped below our currency! $1 now costs chf/swiss francs 0.99!

oh how glad we are to pay in €uros...

smart move, steam!

[Dragoon1]

Visit http://www.steamprices.com/eu2/topripoffs
for a list of Steam top rip-offs.


Examples:

Dragon Age Origins
====================
EUR € 49.99
USD $ 29.99 » EUR € 23.34 (-53.31%)
GBP £ 19.99 » EUR € 23.96 (-52.07%)


Battlefield: Bad Company™ 2
=============================
EUR € 49.99
USD $ 29.99 » EUR € 23.34 (-53.31%)
GBP £ 29.99 » EUR € 35.95 (-28.09%)


Mass Effect 2 Digital Deluxe Edition
==============================
EUR € 59.99
USD $ 39.99 » EUR € 31.12 (-48.12%)
GBP £ 29.99 » EUR € 35.95 (-40.07%)

[Simplex]

All these games are from EA - coincidence?

[impar]

Greetings!
Visit http://www.steamprices.com/eu2/topripoffs
for a list of Steam top rip-offs.


Examples:

Dragon Age Origins
====================
EUR € 49.99
USD $ 29.99 » EUR € 23.34 (-53.31%)
GBP £ 19.99 » EUR € 23.96 (-52.07%)


Battlefield: Bad Company™ 2
=============================
EUR € 49.99
USD $ 29.99 » EUR € 23.34 (-53.31%)
GBP £ 29.99 » EUR € 35.95 (-28.09%)


Mass Effect 2 Digital Deluxe Edition
==============================
EUR € 59.99
USD $ 39.99 » EUR € 31.12 (-48.12%)
GBP £ 29.99 » EUR € 35.95 (-40.07%)
Although I disagree with the 1€=$1 rip-off, I believe that your comparison is flawed since on the € and £ prices there is around 20% VAT. To make a fair comparison with no-VATed $ prices, the VAT should be removed from the € and £ prices before doing the exchange.

As an example:
Battlefield: Bad Company™ 2
=============================
EUR € 49.99 - 20% VAT = EUR € 41,66
USD $ 29.99 » EUR € 23.34 (-42%)
GBP £ 29.99 - 20% VAT = GBP £ 24,99 » EUR € 29,99 (-28%)

[Sunmanager]

Awesome topic.

[Shenzi]

Although I disagree with the 1€=$1 rip-off, I believe that your comparison is flawed since on the € and £ prices there is around 20% VAT.

well... not exactly! switzerland (or e.g. norway) have to pay in €uro and have no vat/tax at all on downloadable stuff.

[Roman0]

Greetings!

Although I disagree with the 1€=$1 rip-off, I believe that your comparison is flawed since on the € and £ prices there is around 20% VAT. To make a fair comparison with no-VATed $ prices, the VAT should be removed from the € and £ prices before doing the exchange.

As an example:
Battlefield: Bad Company™ 2
=============================
EUR € 49.99 - 20% VAT = EUR € 39,99
USD $ 29.99 » EUR € 23.34 (-42%)
GBP £ 29.99 - 20% VAT = GBP £ 23,99 » EUR € 28,79 (-28%)

You calculated it incorrectly. It's the game's value plus 20% (or any other VAT you have there). It should be around 41,66€ without the 20% tax.

[impar]

Greetings!You calculated it incorrectly.
Yep. Edited the post.

[sneakbyte]

2k games are shafting us aussies and kiwis too at $80usd for the same exact product just cause we don't belong to the americas yeat our commonwealth buddies in england get it for 29.99 GBP which is the best deal of $47USD. (Game is Civilzation 5)

why do the british get special treatment in the EU.Its a full member like germany, sweden etc yeat those countries get shafted, please explain i thought the EU was created to stop corperations screwing customers over in europe like intel which got a massive 1.4 billion dollar fine. For its anti-competetive practices against AMD that is located in germany.

[impar]

Greetings!
why do the british get special treatment in the EU.Its a full member like germany, sweden etc yeat those countries get shafted, please explain...
UK shops ignore the recommended retail price. To be competitive Steam has to lower prices in the UK market.
Whats wrong is that non-UKers europeans can buy from several UK online retail shops but not from Steam UK.

[novayuna]

I don't get the "problem" with VAT...

I once bought games on Steam while I was in the USA and did not pay any VAT (at least the invoice said "0$ VAT"). EU-Prices already include VAT. So at this point, prices are comparable, aren't they?

Would be nice if s.b. could explain me logical errors on my side. ;D

[impar]

Greetings!
I don't get the "problem" with VAT...
When you buy something for 120 with VAT included (say 20% VAT), you are really buying something that costs 100, the extra 20 is not product cost, its tax.
For the EU Steam prices to be comparable with US Steam prices VAT must be taken out.

[Simplex]

Only the vat is wildly different in eu countries - form 15 to 25%, and in some countries there is no VAT on digital goods at all - yet the price is the same.
So when steam slaps one "vat included" price for all European countries, they effectively demonstrate that they don't give a rat's a$$ about fair pricing in EU.

[TherapyFailed]

Sorry for my ignorance...who gets VAT exactly? My country?

[Sparkey]

Sorry for my ignorance...who gets VAT exactly? My country?

Yes; it's a tax (Value Added Tax), so it goes to your government.

[FourThing]

Yes; it's a tax (Value Added Tax), so it goes to your government.

Im buying games at price in the store, my grovment dont cares about steam or internet ? so i dont have tax ?
Hell yea :p

[Skaery]

Only the vat is wildly different in eu countries - form 15 to 25%, and in some countries there is no VAT on digital goods at all - yet the price is the same.
So when steam slaps one "vat included" price for all European countries, they effectively demonstrate that they don't give a rat's a$$ about fair pricing in EU.
I actually think that the zero VAT contries are placed under the cheaper tiers.

[MortalC]

I actually think that the zero VAT contries are placed under the cheaper tiers.

They are, but it’s more or less only Valve games that are in tiers. Basically all other games have the same price in all tiers across Europe.

[Simplex]

Yes; it's a tax (Value Added Tax), so it goes to your government.

Is it possible to verify if valve is actually giving any money to the governments? Who can prove it?

In Poland VAT is 22% (23% in 2011, yay!). If I am buying a game for 10€ on Steam, does steam really pay 1.8€ to Polish government? I highly doubt it but I'd love to be proven wrong. Somehow I just picture greedy Valv€ putting this supposed VAT money into their pockets.

Why I do not pay any extra vat when I buy games on GoG.com or Telltale game store? They have prices in $ and those prices are IDENTICAL for EU and US residents.

[TherapyFailed]

@Simplex - my thoughts exactly. When i have any extra time next week im sure to make some phone calls.

Anyone else done that already?

[klaymen_sk]

I actually think that the zero VAT contries are placed under the cheaper tiers.

Slovakia is in tier 2, yet we have 19% VAT. Norway is also in tier 2, yet they have 0% VAT on digital goods.

[flokokola]

Well, that sucks klaymen_sk.

Nevravac otom, zetoto jemoje treczie konto pozablo kovani (pise mjak deb il pretoaby tonemoh li prelo zyt) :D

[Roman0]

Well, that sucks klaymen_sk.

Nevravac otom, zetoto jemoje treczie konto pozablo kovani (pise mjak deb il pretoaby tonemoh li prelo zyt) :D

Approximate translation from broken Polish:
Well, that sucks klaymen_sk.

I'm angry, because they've blocked my third account (I write like a moron so they won't be able to translate) :D
Oh, did they? Guess what, wrong thread!


One thing I agree, the unequal pricing of the games around the world is plain stupidity. This would work before the age if Internet, but now, anyone can check what prices are in other places. Why bother buying a game from Steam, if the price for me is double the price for someone from US.

Btw I don't think VAT would rise the price that much, though 22% is quite a large percentage, that doesn't explain why the same game is way cheaper in retail than on Steam. The retail version also should have VAT included in its price (that I am sure, not sure about VAT in games on Steam).
For example retail prices in Poland (22% VAT) compared to Steam prices:

The Orange Box
Steam (eur) - 22,99€ = $29,98 = 91,00 PLN
Steam (usd) - $29.99 = 22.99€ = 91,01 PLN
Retail - 9.57€ = $12.49 = 37.89 PLN

Left 4 Dead 2
Steam (eur) - 13,99€ = $18,25 = 55,38 PLN (surprise! cheaper in europe!)
Steam (usd) - $19.99 = 15,33€ = 60,67 PLN
Retail - 9.80€ = $12.78 = 38.78 PLN

See? Same game, lower prices on retail, even with VAT. Care to explain that? Me thinks VAT doesn't have anything to do with higher prices on Steam, at least not to the degree that it would matter much. I think it's just greed, that's all. I find it funny though. A physical medium, plus a plastic box, with all the necessary taxes, is cheaper than a bunch of code without the physical container :P

[flokokola]

Approximate translation from broken Polish:

Oh, did they? Guess what, wrong thread!


One thing I agree, the unequal pricing of the games around the world is plain stupidity. This would work before the age if Internet, but now, anyone can check what prices are in other places. Why bother buying a game from Steam, if the price for me is double the price for someone from US.

Btw I don't think VAT would rise the price that much, though 22% is quite a large percentage, that doesn't explain why the same game is way cheaper in retail than on Steam. The retail version also should have VAT included in its price (that I am sure, not sure about VAT in games on Steam).
For example retail prices in Poland (22% VAT) compared to Steam prices:

The Orange Box
Steam (eur) - 22,99€ = $29,98 = 91,00 PLN
Steam (usd) - $29.99 = 22.99€ = 91,01 PLN
Retail - 9.57€ = $12.49 = 37.89 PLN

Left 4 Dead 2
Steam (eur) - 13,99€ = $18,25 = 55,38 PLN (surprise! cheaper in europe!)
Steam (usd) - $19.99 = 15,33€ = 60,67 PLN
Retail - 9.80€ = $12.78 = 38.78 PLN

See? Same game, lower prices on retail, even with VAT. Care to explain that? Me thinks VAT doesn't have anything to do with higher prices on Steam, at least not to the degree that it would matter much. I think it's just greed, that's all. I find it funny though. A physical medium, plus a plastic box, with all the necessary taxes, is cheaper than a bunch of code without the physical container :P

Thats not polish man and you are totally out of the way :rolleyes:

[cwbys21]

See? Same game, lower prices on retail, even with VAT. Care to explain that? Me thinks VAT doesn't have anything to do with higher prices on Steam, at least not to the degree that it would matter much. I think it's just greed, that's all. I find it funny though. A physical medium, plus a plastic box, with all the necessary taxes, is cheaper than a bunch of code without the physical container :P

those stores buy the game from the publisher, and then it is up to them to do whatever they want to sell that box. Steam has an agreement with publishers to sell their games and Valve gets x% of the money from the sale.

@simplex, you know Valve is paying taxes because they are still doing business in Poland.

[Simplex]

@simplex, you know Valve is paying taxes because they are still doing business in Poland.

How are they doing business in Poland? Is there a Valve office in Poland or something? When in Poland I buy something from steam my CC is charged by STEAM LONDON or something similar, so again - in what way are they doing business in Poland?

[impar]

Greetings!
Is it possible to verify if valve is actually giving any money to the governments? Who can prove it?
Only Valve or the Tax services.

[strandedPL]

Valve does not provide that information, at least not through Steam Support.

[RoqueDemon]

Approximate translation from broken Polish:

Oh, did they? Guess what, wrong thread!


One thing I agree, the unequal pricing of the games around the world is plain stupidity. This would work before the age if Internet, but now, anyone can check what prices are in other places. Why bother buying a game from Steam, if the price for me is double the price for someone from US.

Btw I don't think VAT would rise the price that much, though 22% is quite a large percentage, that doesn't explain why the same game is way cheaper in retail than on Steam. The retail version also should have VAT included in its price (that I am sure, not sure about VAT in games on Steam).
For example retail prices in Poland (22% VAT) compared to Steam prices:

The Orange Box
Steam (eur) - 22,99€ = $29,98 = 91,00 PLN
Steam (usd) - $29.99 = 22.99€ = 91,01 PLN
Retail - 9.57€ = $12.49 = 37.89 PLN

Left 4 Dead 2
Steam (eur) - 13,99€ = $18,25 = 55,38 PLN (surprise! cheaper in europe!)
Steam (usd) - $19.99 = 15,33€ = 60,67 PLN
Retail - 9.80€ = $12.78 = 38.78 PLN

See? Same game, lower prices on retail, even with VAT. Care to explain that? Me thinks VAT doesn't have anything to do with higher prices on Steam, at least not to the degree that it would matter much. I think it's just greed, that's all. I find it funny though. A physical medium, plus a plastic box, with all the necessary taxes, is cheaper than a bunch of code without the physical container :P

what? they cost less on retail? O.o
Here they cost a lot more. I'm talking Left 4 Dead 2 still at 49.95€ :s

[DotS]

L4D2 was 65,50$ here for half a year (50€, tax included).

That's pretty much the standard price for a brand new game. Interesting is:

1.) The German version (a foreign one!) was cheaper than our own. I guess they desperately tried to sell their ♥♥♥♥ty cut version...

2.) L4D1 had a quicker price drop than L4D2

3.) For the very same amount of cash, you could buy the Bioshock 1 Collector's Edition at release here. The one with the Big Daddy figure, the music CD, the steel book and the large box. It was even the same store where I picked both games up.

All this made me wait until the price drop to 30€ (yes, I waited for it to drop to 40$ for like half a year) before I bought it. Because 50€ for L4D2, plus all what you just read, is just too much.

[strandedPL]

Here in Poland Left 4 Dead 2 is at the moment around 15€ MAX in retail stores. It's more like 12€ in small local stores where I live.

[Simplex]

In Poland you can buy both left 4 dead and left 4 dead 2 below 10 euros - and I mean retail in unsealed box, not game keys from shady sources.
Example: http://allegro.pl/left-4-dead-2-pl-pc-najtaniej-folia-wys-24h-i1240386871.html

[solidspit]

Here is another one, maybe its mentioned before in this topic but i have the patient to read thru walls of text but not 200 pages.

Anyway check this out CoD:MW2 in the steam store is E59,99.... WTF

why wtf, well a third party reseller offers it at E29.99 and the good part is, you get a steam serial key.... Seriously a third party website is offering the same game on the same platform only its 30 euro cheaper then the official steam store.. Give me a break, and its not just MW2 its with a good deal of other games aswell. I know this has nothing really to do with the dollar euro thing but it sure as hell shows that the steam store should be called the scam store. The deals steam has from time to time are good sometimes, but everything else is just insanely expensive and price drops are rare.

Infact most games that have been out for 2 month i can get hell of alot cheaper in retail stores.

[n0made]

Well , I was going to actually buy Civ 5 on Steam yesterday ...

Then I realized ... WTF ? 50€ ? When it's 50$ in the US ? or 29£ in the UK (which is about 50$ US).

Must be something wrong ?

Then I came accross this thread.

Well .. anyway :) I just can't bend over for this. Comon it's 20$ more than in the US for the same game. And well, here in Belgium , retailers sell it for 50€ too (WTF bis) when I can get it on play.com for much less with free delivery and a box.

Steam/Valve, you lost yourself a customer for this one (and a future customer unless you start treating your customers equally). Oh and if you don't care ... trust me ... I'm very good at "spreading the word" and "convincing others" amond my friends.

You should never have stopped charging in $ in the first place. Online payments methods do the conversion very fine. Here we just feel ripped off.

Luckily there are alternatives to steam for this game. Because if there were no alternatives , we'd have no choice but to turn to "other alternatives". Aye!!

Ps: it's really bad "publicity" that the user who started this thread ended up banned for some reason. Ok I didn't read the whole 532 pages but the first post don't seem wrong to me.

[yorshek]

It's crap to overpay for games. it's OK if prices different for 2-3$ but 15-20
I can buy Mafia II in store for 999 Kč - 49.99$ but 49.99€ in steam store...

and Bless god! For games with huge prices
i have a friend who can gift it to me on normal prices

[hvkasteren]

Another new game release with a nice price difference: Lost Horizon.

US: $21.41 (inc. 19% VAT)
UK: £17.99 (33% higher)
EU: 35,99€ (127% higher)
AU: $17.99 USD (16% lower)

[brotrrwinner]

Another new game release with a nice price difference: Lost Horizon.

US: $21.41 (inc. 19% VAT)
UK: £17.99 (33% higher)
EU: 35,99€ (127% higher)
AU: $17.99 USD (16% lower)

Haha, wow!

[Scared]

Another new game release with a nice price difference: Lost Horizon.

US: $21.41 (inc. 19% VAT)
UK: £17.99 (33% higher)
EU: 35,99€ (127% higher)
AU: $17.99 USD (16% lower)

wut?

US and AU don't have VAT and the game is price at $20USD regularly with 10% off to make it $79.99USD. You have the UK price right (although that is with the 10% discount) and the EU price is just stupidly expensive.

[Loc_n_lol]

Whats wrong is that non-UKers europeans can buy from several UK online retail shops but not from Steam UK.

On the bright side, the cost of game + import from UK to mainland is still cheaper than buying retail in France or on Steam. If you're willing to wait a few more days until you get your game, that's a pretty good deal.

I actually like Steam as a service, but I now stay away from their store except when they have exclusives or very good deals.

[hvkasteren]

US and AU don't have VAT and the game is price at $20USD regularly with 10% off to make it $79.99USD. You have the UK price right (although that is with the 10% discount) and the EU price is just stupidly expensive.

The VAT you see is an addition from the script I use to compare the prices. Since the price in euros already includes the VAT I'd have to pay, and the price in (US) dollars doesn't, it adds it for me for a better comparison.

It does seem the script has bugged in taking the regular price for the US instead of the discounted one. This only makes the difference worse in the end though.

[R0TTENCAT]

Another new game release with a nice price difference: Lost Horizon.

US: $21.41 (inc. 19% VAT)
UK: £17.99 (33% higher)
EU: 35,99€ (127% higher)
AU: $17.99 USD (16% lower)

SICK!

[zzcool]

WHY WAS I SO BLIND ;(

i thought the deals were amazing i've been buying games over and over again it wen't from about 4 games end of 2009 to right now i think 100

does this mean i pracitcally wasted all my money if i was in the us i would save

i bought serious sam the second encounter for 5 eur which is about 50 SEK swedish money

and i asked one of my american friends to tell me what the price was in $ 5 DOLLARS the exact same just a different currency

and 5 dollars in sek is about 30 SEK which means i spent almost twice as much because i live in sweden

sure you say 20 SEK difference is not that much but let's go higher i spent as much as nearly 100 eur on one game see thats where it wen't horrible could of saved about 200 SEK im not rich

i knew it was too good to be true one amazing offer after the other i started to love steam valve taking care of there customers but it just turns out there playing mind tricks on them i was so blind

oh my god this may make many laugh at me im half laughing aswell to my stupidity

i spent a total of 279 euro on steam games which is 2561 in swedish money sek now remember that as here comes the fun part

now let's change 279 euro to dollars which is 1899 SEK

the difference is roughly 700 sek

ok here it goes are you ready

700 sek in dollars is 102$

which means (giggles) i lost a total of... 102 dollars

and remember this is only assuming all games i bought was the exact price in $ insteaf of euros it could of been even more

i don't know if i should laugh or cry

[Roman0]

WHY WAS I SO BLIND ;(

i thought the deals were amazing i've been buying games over and over again it wen't from about 4 games end of 2009 to right now i think 100

does this mean i pracitcally wasted all my money if i was in the us i would save

i bought serious sam the second encounter for 5 eur which is about 50 SEK swedish money

and i asked one of my american friends to tell me what the price was in $ 5 DOLLARS the exact same just a different currency

and 5 dollars in sek is about 30 SEK which means i spent almost twice as much because i live in sweden

sure you say 20 SEK difference is not that much but let's go higher i spent as much as nearly 100 eur on one game see thats where it wen't horrible could of saved about 200 SEK im not rich

i knew it was too good to be true one amazing offer after the other i started to love steam valve taking care of there customers but it just turns out there playing mind tricks on them i was so blind

oh my god this may make many laugh at me im half laughing aswell to my stupidity

i spent a total of 279 euro on steam games which is 2561 in swedish money sek now remember that as here comes the fun part

now let's change 279 euro to dollars which is 1899 SEK

the difference is roughly 700 sek

ok here it goes are you ready

700 sek in dollars is 102$

which means (giggles) i lost a total of... 102 dollars

and remember this is only assuming all games i bought was the exact price in $ insteaf of euros it could of been even more

i don't know if i should laugh or cry

Damn, for that money I could buy myself a not-so-bad a graphics card, or a 1TB HDD, or... I dunno, it's lost money anyway. Yeah, you're right, we in Europe would waste a lot of money if we would start buying stuff on Steam just the way like some gamers in USA do, we would usually pay a lot more than them. Pitty. I'm a fan of Serious Sam (slight rhyme here ;) ), I wanted to buy one copy of SS:HD Gold for me and one for my sister (we used to play the classic version, and we still would cuz her PC suck) but 40 PLN (eur) is not 30 PLN (usd), that way I could almost buy a third copy for USD, but the cash would be wasted. Fudge it, I'll pass :P

[Skaery]

which means (giggles) i lost a total of... 102 dollars

and remember this is only assuming all games i bought was the exact price in $ insteaf of euros it could of been even more

i don't know if i should laugh or cry
Is VAT on digital goods in Sweden 0%, otherwise you'll need to take that into account.

Also, 5 EUR = 46 SEK, and 5 USD = 34 SEK, so that's a difference of about 12 SEK. Sure, you VAT has be 35% for it to be around even, but it still helps with the fairness.

[mr138]

Oh we're still crying about this huh?

I'm sure there are plenty of Euro made games out there somewhere for 35,99€ or w/e if you don't like it. Try hitting up a non .com for more info.

[Emerald]

Darksiders:
US: $39.99
UK: N/A
EU: 49,99€ (68% higher)
AU: $59.99 USD (50% higher)

Yes I'm sure the 68% increase is just VAT :rolleyes:

[Trashcantoy]

Steam/Valve, you lost yourself a customer for this one (and a future customer unless you start treating your customers equally). Oh and if you don't care ... trust me ... I'm very good at "spreading the word" and "convincing others" amond my friends.

Publishers set the prices, not Valve/Steam. fail.

Although Valve does charge a tad more in EU for the games they publish.

But still, i dont see why you have to be so upset, if prices would be US level Steam would go towards a fully fledged monopoly in digital distribution. Even with all this EU hate Steam still has a market share of 70%, thats just sick.

[R0TTENCAT]

Oh we're still crying about this huh?

I'm sure there are plenty of Euro made games out there somewhere for 35,99€ or w/e if you don't like it. Try hitting up a non .com for more info.

You are from the USA correct?
Instead of gloating, better be thankful, because without us (euro gamers) you would have no chance to buy cheap.
This is by the way confirmed by a game developer of Shattered Horizon (game made in Europe / Finland) who said that Shattered Horizon costs in Europe more so folks in US and UK could play cheap. You need to understand that we here in Europe sponsor your gaming activities, so think about it next time when you come here gloating.

[Simplex]

This is by the way confirmed by a game developer of Shattered Horizon (game made in Europe / Finland) who said that Shattered Horizon costs in Europe more so folks in US and UK could play cheap.
Similar thing was said by another Finnish developer, Frozenbyte, regarding price of Trine.

[mchufnagel]

Similar thing was said by another Finnish developer, Frozenbyte, regarding price of Trine.

I take most things said by publisher/developers with a grain of salt in the first place. How can anything said by a developer be confirmed since we can't look at their books? We're just supposed to take their word on it? :rolleyes:

Personally, I think publishers are simply taking advantage of traditionally higher pricing in places like western Europe and Australia. The internet be damned.

[lapo_87]

2 years and not a single answer yet???

For now I've bought GTA IV and FEAR 2 as retails from UK: I've paid them 14€ and 11,5€ instead of 30€ and 20€.

NOTE: with this (http://code.google.com/p/steam-prices/) you can see prices in USD/£/€/AU at the same time.

And I see that GTA IV is 19,99$ and 29,99€ wich it's 104% MORE

[mr138]

You are from the USA correct?
Instead of gloating, better be thankful, because without us (euro gamers) you would have no chance to buy cheap.
This is by the way confirmed by a game developer of Shattered Horizon (game made in Europe / Finland) who said that Shattered Horizon costs in Europe more so folks in US and UK could play cheap. You need to understand that we here in Europe sponsor your gaming activities, so think about it next time when you come here gloating.

There are plenty of SC2, L4D2, MW2, BF2, w/e leagues out there in the US. There's like 4 different amateur ones going on in my friends dorm right now. Sponsored gaming and leagues isn't exactly an English only phenomenon. In fact, gaming is so widespread it could hardly be called a phenomenon nowadays.

Game prices have been set for decades, anyone old enough to remember how much old nes games cost? That's right $50, it's always been $50. Sometimes your currency is worth more than a buck, sometimes not, no one is going to change the way the world does business over a group of dudes in the UK.

Also no one cares about Shattered Horizons, the developer/publisher would have been an idiot to think his $80 (or w/e price it would be) game would be able to compete against our AAA ones for $50. That's what it's about, anything they said to you was purely lip service.

Similar thing was said by another Finnish developer, Frozenbyte, regarding price of Trine.

That wasn't even me who said that, but I'll bite anyways. There is no way in hello Trine would have sold as well as it did if it had been priced (accordingly) at $35-ish.

[Kratier]

the original post seems like no warrant for banning,

i think its a legitimate complaint on a pricing scheme for people trying to gouge its members

i think this is possibly just the worst place out of all places to launch a complaint like this. Take this to the BBB or something like that, There are laws and fair trade agreements.

You make a group like this inside of steam, you just get banned by steam and the mods brush it under the carpet. Take your complaints to a legitimate place, and organize better. Some stupid friends group labeled "$1 =/= €1" and key board protesting on an issue thats been longstanding for years will never solve this issue. Take it to the courts and make a legitimate complaint. Spamming about an issue and expecting other people to do the work for you will get you nowhere, you have to do it yourself or it will never get done.

[Simplex]

That wasn't even me who said that, but I'll bite anyways. There is no way in hello Trine would have sold as well as it did if it had been priced (accordingly) at $35-ish.
But it was priced $35-ish in Europe - thanks to 1€=1$ conversion.
And that is not what I suggested at all. I meant that at launch Trine was priced, if I remember correctly, 25$ in USA and 25€ in Europe (which at that time translated to more than 35$). The thread I referred to is located here:
http://frozenbyte.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1662

I never proposed that US price should have been raised to match the higher European price - on the contrary, I expected Trine to cost the same, lower amount in both US and UE.

EDIT: I found the exact quote
the euro price is the "correct" price (we pay to our employees in euros) and the dollar price is a discount for US people so they could survive the economical crisis and maybe get usd:eur to 1:1 some very sunny day :cool:

[Mexbot]

:O alarming information. o well steam gets to choose the prices soooooo w/e

[Zuko]

In Mann Co. store 1$ is once again equal to 1€. Thx valve :o :eek:

[mouton]

In Mann Co. store 1$ is once again equal to 1€. Thx valve :o :eek:
It's the publishers!

Oh, wait

[marekfreak1]

I still find it unbelievable that the prices for European customers (even countries in the EU, but outside the Eurozone) are still so high on the Steam Store.

...and supposedly nobody buys retail copies anymore (at least in the US). Well I wonder how they got there? With really low broadband penetration in the US compared to say Europe I am really suprised. But I wonder how they got there? I bet it was with high prices.

I did buy the X3 Gold pack as the price difference was minimal, but otherwise, I only wait for sales. Its sad, but true and I have money to spend.

Most of my Steam friends (mostly EU/UK based) no longer purchase games via Steam. Practically all their listed games are retail copies, after the whole Euro debacle.

I really want to buy games via the Steam store, but Valve/Publishers or whoever really is at fault, is forcing me to look elsewhere (retail and other reputable online resources).

The fact that the prices remain so high for us Euros sends a clear message. We are happy to pay the hiked price and the boycott is not working OR Valve/Publishers really do not give a rats ♥♥♥ about the European market(s).

And still no official/unoffical word/comment or even rumor from Valve. Talk about alienating your customers for over 2 years. If Valve wants to focus their attention on their US customers, then why the hell don't they just close shop completely in Europe already and save both parties all the hassle and frustration (or are the high prices in Euros exactly what they're trying to achieve?).

They really would be doing us all a favor.

[Simplex]

Let's assume it's not valve's fault, publishers set prices and insist on 1€=1$... WHY CAN'T VALVE PUBLICLY CONFIRM/DENY IT? Why is it ignoring its users and keeping them (us) in the dark?

[epsylon_Z1]

currently for us ( Hungary )

1$ = 198.88 Ft
1€ = 274.27 Ft

I hate the € zone .

[Ryuubei]

You all make it sound like it's only valve doing the !=1, well i got news for you, it isnt. This is a common practice throught ALL industries, especially here in the UK. Want to buy a book from your local waterstones that from america, it's 1=1 exchange, if not more. Same is true for games, DVD's and pretty much everything else.

Why is it like this? Simple, brits are to laid back and disorganised to complain about it. Sure we get ♥♥♥♥♥y about it on individual forums like this, it even looks like we make a lot of noise. But in truth it's pure air, brits dont have the b.alls to stand up to the companies and say enough is enough.

Also sadly the UK has a rather high VAT added these days, it's gone from 15% to 18% and is set to rise to 20% over the next two years, so except prices to rise again.

but meh, us brits love nothing like a good moan about how the system is screwing us and is evil. As a brit i find it all rather amusing.

[zeekill]

You all make it sound like it's only valve doing the !=1, well i got news for you, it isnt. This is a common practice throught ALL industries, especially here in the UK. Want to buy a book from your local waterstones that from america, it's 1=1 exchange, if not more. Same is true for games, DVD's and pretty much everything else.

Why is it like this? Simple, brits are to laid back and disorganised to complain about it. Sure we get ♥♥♥♥♥y about it on individual forums like this, it even looks like we make a lot of noise. But in truth it's pure air, brits dont have the b.alls to stand up to the companies and say enough is enough.

Also sadly the UK has a rather high VAT added these days, it's gone from 15% to 18% and is set to rise to 20% over the next two years, so except prices to rise again.

but meh, us brits love nothing like a good moan about how the system is screwing us and is evil. As a brit i find it all rather amusing.

Just no.

[Eek!]

I concur. I am going to pretend that post never existed.

[novayuna]

currently for us ( Hungary )

1$ = 198.88 Ft
1€ = 274.27 Ft

I hate the € zone .Guess what:
274.27/198.88 = 1.37907281
1 EUR / 1 USD = 1,3778

:)

[epsylon_Z1]

Guess what:
274.27/198.88 = 1.37907281
1 EUR / 1 USD = 1,3778

:)i try to explain: for example

Sid Meier's Civilization® V

$49.99 = 9942 Ft
€49.99 = 13711 Ft

[Syrinx]

Cool, a store in tf2.

...What was that, sandvich? 49.99€(~69$) for the polycount pack? GOOD F'ING IDEA! WHAHAHAHA

[Zuko]

http://zuko.steamunpowered.eu/wtw/03.10.10_18.51.41_2pow9c2.png

[epsylon_Z1]

http://www.steamprices.com/us/topripoffs
interesting

[Rebel44]

http://www.steamprices.com/us/topripoffs
interesting

Yeah, some prices are better here in EU, some in USA.

Its nor really 1€ = 1$, so IMO this thread can be put to rest, because its main focus is true only in some cases.

[Syrinx]

http://www.steamprices.com/us/topripoffs
interesting
That is interesting, actually.


http://zuko.steamunpowered.eu/wtw/03.10.10_18.51.41_2pow9c2.png
Hahaha, awesome man! xD
You deserve cookies.