Looks like $1 = €1 after all [Archive] - Page 38

alcator

11-15-2011, 11:32 AM

Truth be told, customers are stupid, and sellers have to respect that.

Go to any store in any country, and you will see that EVERY price (perhaps with the exception of the cheapest bakery goods) has a price that ends with ".99" or ".9".

The reason? Customers are stupid and do not read the last digit of the price. So to customers, 1.99 seems like 1.90, or, in the worst case, 499 seems like 400.

It has been researched ad nausea, and it is proven that prices ending with 9 are several times more successful than prices ending with any other digit.

So that's one thing to take into account -- why all AAA titles have a price that is x9.99 (59.99, 49.99, 39.99 etc.)

A good seller then knows that they must price their goods like that: x9.99.

So, if the price in dollars is 49.99, what options are there in other currencies, mainly GBP and EURO?

Google today:
49.99 U.S. dollars = 31.6032368 British pounds
49.99 U.S. dollars = 36.9721174 Euros

It makes sense to change the 31.6 GBP to 29.99 GBP -- it's "only" 1.7 pound less (<5%) and gives you a nice price)
But changing 36.97 to 29.99 would be too much of a reduction, so they instead opt for going up to 39.99, or, if they really want to make profit, they just leave it at 49.99

============

cakewalker

11-15-2011, 03:30 PM

Who cares really?
If something is too expensive I don't buy it.
These prices are set so high because a lot of people pay them.

You can also just wait for sales or buy them in retail, as suggested multiple times in this thread

weucaowe

11-15-2011, 04:39 PM

Die, thread, die. Please.

fyiiamaheavy

11-15-2011, 04:56 PM

Someone should close this

Pinguin

11-15-2011, 07:09 PM

I appreciate that "they" Valve and its mods didnt close this topic, as i do believe that its relevant.
There is not much the single user can do about this at the end, but i would love to see at least that the games Valve it self does publish on there own platform Steam does have a fair price.

Why? Because i think Valve is a great Company, i love there games, i like there approach to new ideas, but to me it seems unfair to charge "different 1st world countries users" unfair prices.

Here its mostly (from what i did read) about USA/UK/EUR/AUSTRALIA etc...
I could understand why the would ask from "2nd/3rd" World countries less, way less - that would be fair.

And i am not talking about other prices here then the games that Valve did develop and do sell on there own platform - Steam.

And if any of the Valve Employed People would take a chance and post smth significant in this Topic - this would go into history and be a huge benefit for the company Valve!

Its 618 pages long and has 9259 reply´s by now... Valve usually does respond much much faster, or it did in the past at least... Valve never did take criticism as a negative thing and did at least respond... now it appears to me that they did take a different approach... ignore it. I doubt that helps...

Just my 2 cents :)

Cypherous

11-16-2011, 10:07 AM

Oh am i supposed to care?

Just buy a key from a site in a different region and activate it on steam, nuff said :)

Its how i plan to buy MW3 soon for about £20 :)

Armor_Biff

11-16-2011, 11:31 AM

KeepItReal

11-16-2011, 01:42 PM

Oh am i supposed to care?

Just buy a key from a site in a different region and activate it on steam, nuff said :)

Its how i plan to buy MW3 soon for about £20 :)Can you show me how to do that as well!

Fred DM

11-16-2011, 02:18 PM

Modern Warware 3 is 81 US Dollars (59.99 Euros) here in Europe, which is just insane. Luckily I have no interest in that game whatsoever. But there are plenty of people who happily pay for it, so the prices will never be changed and adjusted fairly.

buy a physical copy. no brick-and-mortar store actually charges €59.99, or even €49.99. that goes for any game.

caby

11-16-2011, 06:30 PM

Started a petition to try and change this
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/lower-prices-of-digitally-distributed-games-stop-the-p.html

Hopefully we can

KubanitoS

11-17-2011, 01:38 AM

Started a petition to try and change this
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/lower-prices-of-digitally-distributed-games-stop-the-p.html

Hopefully we can

We all know what those petitions are good for, but noone is stopping you!

Fred DM

11-17-2011, 01:45 AM

Started a petition to try and change this
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/lower-prices-of-digitally-distributed-games-stop-the-p.html

Hopefully we can

i don't know much about the Australian gaming market, but isn't the whole problem with digital prices connected to the Australian retail market? :confused: as in: Steam cannot offer lower prices than the already overpriced Australian physical retail prices? :confused:

Stoib

11-17-2011, 02:19 AM

Started a petition to try and change this
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/lower-prices-of-digitally-distributed-games-stop-the-p.html

Hopefully we can

Signed... But you and I both know absolutely nothing will come of this. Best bet is to continue to inform the masses of these cheaper (read: fair) alternatives such as GreenManGaming.
I try to get Valve to lose as many potential sales as possible on price jacked titles that are for sale elsewhere.

strandedPL

11-17-2011, 02:59 PM

Prices are cool these days. At least in Russia.

Random

11-17-2011, 05:59 PM

I Still don't know if this disparity is down to Valve, the game Publishers or a mixture of the two.
After reading an interview with one of the online gaming sites I believe with Gabe, it was said that Steam was more flexible in pricing than traditional distribution, so both Valve and the publishers could retain better profits per unit.
So surely if that is the case prices on Steam should be lower than they are in the large Online UK stores, but often they are not and very often new game releases are cheaper from those larger UK online stores. Coupled with the facility of telephone support if you should need it, I've never managed to work out why some prices are so wide of the mark for Europe, UK & Elsewhere, whereas they seem to appear fairly stable for the US.
I thought too that electronic distribution was almost going to be a panacea for levelling up the pricing field.

maxtorthelord

11-17-2011, 09:20 PM

Prices are cool these days. At least in Russia.

Considering the fact that games in Russia are the cheapest in the world, yeah I'd be cool with that as well.

crunchyfrog555

11-18-2011, 04:09 PM

OK, I said I'd keep you updated on my communication with the European Directorate regarding European pricing in European member nations.

Yesterday, I received a reply (via my MEP), advising that they are obviously aware of it, and that it is a matter they've been looking into.

I'm not going to type out the full content of the letter here, but I will record an excerpt for you:

"The Commission is well aware of the fact that certain online services such as online games are often not available across the entire EU or priced differently depending on the country. While online platforms are not obliged to distribute their services for the same prices in different countries or EU-wide, such practices have recently been questioned by the European Court of Justice in the so-called Premier League Case with regard to satellite broadcasting of sports events. In this judgement the Court stated that absolute territorial exclusivity which is such as to result in artificial price differences between the partitioned national markets is irreconcilable with the fundamental aim of the Treaty, which is completion of the internal market. It is to be seen what influence this ruling, in the specific context of satellite broadcasting, will have on other business models, including online games.

In order to facilitate the development of a wide variety of consumer-friendly service offerings and the cross-border availability of creative content online, with the objective to create a true Digital Single Market, the European Commission has undertaken several initiatives, in particular, the "Digital Agenda for Europe" adopted on 19 May 2010 (http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/digital-agenda/index_en.htm).

On 13 July 2011, the Commission also issued a Green Paper, to launch a debate on the cross-border distribution of audiovisual content (http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/copyright-infso/copyright-infso_en.htm).

These and other initiatives which should be taken in the near future should bring Europe closer to a situation where our citizens can access content of their choice, whenever they want and wherever they are."

So you can see, as far as European countries go, it's most likely a mere formality and only a matter of time before we at least get charged the same price. Let's hope it's not UK and the other moving UP to the most expensive tier, but the other way round ;)

I hope this is of help.

NOTE: The links provided in the letter are only included as a verbatim record. Note that one is missing, and one is broken. I'm afraid that's fairly typical of the EU. They move their online data around an awful lot. It doesn't negate the value of the letter's content.

TeKraken

11-18-2011, 04:34 PM

^^
such practices have recently been questioned by the European Court of Justice in the so-called Premier League Case with regard to satellite broadcasting of sports events i wonder if this has anything to do with that lady in the uk pub getting her "sky football" from greece on the cheap "legally"

Thanks CF555

crunchyfrog555

11-18-2011, 04:38 PM

^^
i wonder if this has anything to do with that lady in the uk pub getting her "sky football" from greece on the cheap "legally"

Thanks CF555

Yes, I can absolutely. I followed her case fairly closely.

Good spot, there. :)

And you're welcome.

Random

11-18-2011, 04:50 PM

That's really useful info Crunchy Frog. I think there have been some rumblings with FB in Europe at present, so it's good to see they are looking after our interests.

crunchyfrog555

11-18-2011, 05:00 PM

That's really useful info Crunchy Frog. I think there have been some rumblings with FB in Europe at present, so it's good to see they are looking after our interests.

Thank you. I try to offer as much help to people here as I can.

Personally, I felt it was only a matter of time, as this is an issue that doesn't just affect Steam users, and isn't just particular to one member state (country).

Knowing a little how the EU work, I doubt it'll be very quick, although it may be quicker than usual because there'll be little dispute from members as it involves all of them.

Just so you're all aware, I'm not doing this as a swipe at Valve, or is it under-handed in any way. I've made sure I've kept Valve staff aware of this, and have passed details on to them.

It wouldn't be fair if I didn't.

needaxeo

11-18-2011, 05:19 PM

[COLOR="Yellow"]
While online platforms are not obliged to distribute their services for the same prices in different countries or EU-wide.....absolute territorial exclusivity which is such as to result in artificial price differences between the partitioned national markets is irreconcilable with the fundamental aim of the Treaty

I wouldn't read too much into it.

"Artificial price differences" is your stumbling block.

Go into your high street and buy bread. You'll find lots of people selling it that (i) have a price difference and (ii) don't sell it EU wide.

Don't expect that to change for bread or anything else on the back of this. Because of real price differences.

Random

11-18-2011, 05:27 PM

Thank you. I try to offer as much help to people here as I can.

Personally, I felt it was only a matter of time, as this is an issue that doesn't just affect Steam users, and isn't just particular to one member state (country).

Knowing a little how the EU work, I doubt it'll be very quick, although it may be quicker than usual because there'll be little dispute from members as it involves all of them.

Just so you're all aware, I'm not doing this as a swipe at Valve, or is it under-handed in any way. I've made sure I've kept Valve staff aware of this, and have passed details on to them.

It wouldn't be fair if I didn't.

I wouldn't have thought for one minute that you were taking a "swipe" at Valve. This has been a question that's been going on for some time and whilst I've read the odd bits and bobs that are posted with some sort of tangeable feedback, it's still would be good to get a proper answer/s. Considering in the past we were always told (not neccessarily by valve) that shipping overseas for physical media affected prices drastically. But now we have electronic distribution the pricing should be relatively balanced - but as we know it's not.

I know there are many on any forum that wear the "Fan Boy" badge with honour, but people really need to distinguish the difference between constructive criticism and negativety for the sake of it. I would certainly say your post is constructive and I for one appreciate the feedback as that does take time to sort out.

TeKraken

11-18-2011, 05:31 PM

Knowing a little how the EU work,

Unelected leaders in greece... italy, who next?? Anyone else for a technocrat?

crunchyfrog555

11-18-2011, 05:32 PM

Unelected leaders in greece... italy, who next?? Anyone else for a technocrat?

Sorry, it might just be me being tired as it's late, but I don;t get what you mean.

If you're referring to me looking to having some sort involvement in EU politics, then thanks, but no thanks. I've done my time in politics, and I have absolutely no inclination to walk that road again.

crunchyfrog555

11-18-2011, 05:36 PM

I wouldn't read too much into it.

"Artificial price differences" is your stumbling block.

Go into your high street and buy bread. You'll find lots of people selling it that (i) have a price difference and (ii) don't sell it EU wide.

Don't expect that to change for bread or anything else on the back of this. Because of real price differences.

I think you've misunderstood it. I am not reading too much into it at all.

The legal case over Sky was a clear test case. That WILL extend to gaming and other online purchasing as the Directorate clearly states. No doubt it will take time.

Bread and such things WILL be subject to difference in comparison, which is wrong to compare. Transport costs, etc.

It doesn't apply to that. What is germane here is that these are PRECISELY the same product in total which are different prices for the only reason that you happen to live somewhere else within the EU. So, don't confuse the two issues.

crunchyfrog555

11-18-2011, 05:38 PM

I wouldn't have thought for one minute that you were taking a "swipe" at Valve. This has been a question that's been going on for some time and whilst I've read the odd bits and bobs that are posted with some sort of tangeable feedback, it's still would be good to get a proper answer/s. Considering in the past we were always told (not neccessarily by valve) that shipping overseas for physical media affected prices drastically. But now we have electronic distribution the pricing should be relatively balanced - but as we know it's not.

I know there are many on any forum that wear the "airconditioned youth" badge with honour, but people really need to distinguish the difference between constructive criticism and negativety for the sake of it. I would certainly say your post is constructive and I for one appreciate the feedback as that does take time to sort out.

And thank you for your kind words.

As I always maintain, I'm here to try and help, and that's usually pretty clear, but sometimes you have to spell it out for the *cough* hard-of-thinking *cough* :)

rokas1997

11-19-2011, 04:41 AM

Elenoe

11-19-2011, 04:45 AM

I always hate that I live in Europe, usally e-shops sends to US only if products are cheap, steam made 1EUR=1$ and the little ♥♥♥♥ty country that I live in gives very very litle salarys/wages = 289EUR per month... Why the hell valve doesn't takes action?
on the bright side... be glad you have access to the games for the same price as the rest of Europe. It's within hands grasp that steam start selling game in your national currency, maybe cheaper, but as result it disallows you to buy half of the games available.

needaxeo

11-19-2011, 10:50 AM

Bread and such things WILL be subject to difference in comparison, which is wrong to compare. Transport costs, etc.

Bread wasn't being compared with games, it was just a heads up common sense point that prices vary on the same street for everyday things let alone between different EU countries.

There's no EU policy or treaty that makes prices fixed or the same from place to place. There might be some legislation and regulation but that's about it.

I won't labour the point, but this ruling is hugely different from games too, and it's clearly not saying "prices will be the same for games" it even clarifies by saying 'artificial' that makes it quite clear that there's no reason for prices not to be different.

Besides which, as you note, the idea that they would then lower prices makes no sense.

crunchyfrog555

11-19-2011, 11:20 AM

Bread wasn't being compared with games, it was just a heads up common sense point that prices vary on the same street for everyday things let alone between different EU countries.

There's no EU policy or treaty that makes prices fixed or the same from place to place. There might be some legislation and regulation but that's about it.

I won't labour the point, but this ruling is hugely different from games too, and it's clearly not saying "prices will be the same for games" it even clarifies by saying 'artificial' that makes it quite clear that there's no reason for prices not to be different.

Besides which, as you note, the idea that they would then lower prices makes no sense.

Firstly, legislation IS policy.

But there is policy that states prices charged should be the same, regardless of what member state we originate from (I can't remember the article, I'll dig it out if I can find it later - I think someone quoted it earlier on this thread, to be honest).

What I meant about the bread analogy is that in such a case, it is almost impossible for many products to be identical in every degree when purchased in different regions. You may have a loaf which is made in the same factory with the same ingredients (thereby involving the same cost of manufacture) but the transport costs would vary, or vice versa.

When there is CLEAR case of the products being absolute identical (or very close to), then it is abundantly clear that this is something the EU Directorate can look at, and that's what she says in that letter.

This piece sums it up that games would be included very succinctly - "In this judgement the Court stated that absolute territorial exclusivity which is such as to result in artificial price differences between the partitioned national markets is irreconcilable with the fundamental aim of the Treaty" - which clearly says that price differencing in regional territories is at odds with the fundamental aim of the EU Treaty (note that she clearly says there IS a Treaty it relates to).

So, that's why she goes on to say they're working on it, in a nutshell.

My comment about lowering the price was admittedly, tongue-in-cheek, but it's not right for you to say that makes "no sense" - it makes perfect sense. If this carries on and they uphold the aims of the Treaty, then prices will HAVE to adjust, so somebody will surely get them cheaper (unless they go up for everybody).

I have no wish to be disrespectful, but I can't understand why you're not seeing it. You are clearly misinterpreting many things here.

needaxeo

11-21-2011, 11:28 PM

But there is policy that states prices charged should be the same, regardless of what member state we originate from

No there is not.

What I meant about the bread analogy is that in such a case, it is almost impossible for many products to be identical in every degree when purchased in different regions. You may have a loaf which is made in the same factory with the same ingredients (thereby involving the same cost of manufacture) but the transport costs would vary, or vice versa.

The same is quite obviously clearly true of digitally distributed content. Just because it's not delivered by a van doesn't mean it isn't delivered.

Ever heard of EFIGS? Ever heard of foriegn languages? Think about the implications there. There are literally millions of ways of creating or demonstrating real price differentials between countries.

Don't kid yourself your MEP is going to get you cheap games.

This piece sums it up that games would be included very succinctly - "In this judgement the Court stated that absolute territorial exclusivity which is such as to result in artificial price differences between the partitioned national markets is irreconcilable with the fundamental aim of the Treaty" - which clearly says that price differencing in regional territories is at odds with the fundamental aim of the EU Treaty (note that she clearly says there IS a Treaty it relates to).

No it does not. Firstly it doesn't say anything clearly or succinctly. It's verbose BS "which is such as to"? It's muddled nonsense. Secondly it says nothing specific about games at all. It doesn't even use the word games.

My comment about lowering the price was admittedly, tongue-in-cheek, but it's not right for you to say that makes "no sense" - it makes perfect sense.

No, it may make perfect sense to you that prices are lowered, but not necessarily to anyone selling games.

(unless they go up for everybody).

Wrong. The price doesn't have to go up for everybody for the prices not to lower for anybody. (This is primary school arithmetic)

Ywap

11-22-2011, 10:14 AM

Is it really that hard to charge in just one currency ($, € or £) and let the exchange rate do it´s job?

crunchyfrog555

11-22-2011, 10:18 AM

No there is not.

The same is quite obviously clearly true of digitally distributed content. Just because it's not delivered by a van doesn't mean it isn't delivered.

Ever heard of EFIGS? Ever heard of foriegn languages? Think about the implications there. There are literally millions of ways of creating or demonstrating real price differentials between countries.

Don't kid yourself your MEP is going to get you cheap games.

No it does not. Firstly it doesn't say anything clearly or succinctly. It's verbose BS "which is such as to"? It's muddled nonsense. Secondly it says nothing specific about games at all. It doesn't even use the word games.

No, it may make perfect sense to you that prices are lowered, but not necessarily to anyone selling games.

Wrong. The price doesn't have to go up for everybody for the prices not to lower for anybody. (This is primary school arithmetic)

You are wrong on so many points, I do wonder whether you actually understand what is written in that response.

I've no wish to argue with such nonsense, so I'll leave you to your mistakenly strange beliefs.

LostCauze

11-22-2011, 11:17 AM

Is it really that hard to charge in just one currency ($, € or £) and let the exchange rate do it´s job?

Exactly, loads of other places do this.

minevittu

11-23-2011, 12:37 PM

Buy Shift 2 Unleashed

AUTUMN SALE! Offer ends 28 November

-50%

US: $9.99
UK: £14.99 (133% higher)
EU: 24,99€ (233% higher)
AU: $39.99 USD (300% higher)

Sasquatchsliper

11-23-2011, 04:24 PM

Is it really that hard to charge in just one currency ($, € or £) and let the exchange rate do it´s job?It would bring down the cartel video game publishers built years ago (in the 90s), to have artificially higher price in Europe.

So EA/Activision/etc told Steam "if you don't obey, we pull out" :D

edit: I just realized, 3 years now, I might become a lawyer before we get to see fair prices on Steam...

I might end up being one of the few pushing for stronger consumers protection in the european union, I'm not giving up on ya Steam ! We'll meet again ! :D

crunchyfrog555

11-23-2011, 08:37 PM

It would bring down the cartel video game publishers built years ago (in the 90s), to have artificially higher price in Europe.

So EA/Activision/etc told Steam "if you don't obey, we pull out" :D

edit: I just realized, 3 years now, I might become a lawyer before we get to see fair prices on Steam...

I might end up being one of the few pushing for stronger consumers protection in the european union, I'm not giving up on ya Steam ! We'll meet again ! :D

Just as long as you bear in mind that you can be the best lawyer in the world, you can't change laws.

Random

11-23-2011, 09:03 PM

I've just purchased Red Faction Armageddon (online store)for less than Half Price than the Current Steam Autumn Sale price.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/55110/

Ordinary Steam price:-
£29.99
Current Steam Autumn sale price:-
£14.99
vs
Normal(perhaps largest)Online Retailer price:-
£6.99

CTRL ALT DEL !

11-23-2011, 09:09 PM

Hasn't anyone learned that Steam trade means US prices?

philpjfry

11-24-2011, 11:48 AM

valve bundle 45 EUR
50 USD
50USD=37EUR

TeKraken

11-24-2011, 12:06 PM

valve bundle 45 EUR
50 USD
50USD=37EUR

£25 UK valve complete

dvdmonster

11-25-2011, 03:48 AM

Buy Shift 2 Unleashed

AUTUMN SALE! Offer ends 28 November

-50%

US: $9.99
UK: £14.99 (133% higher)
EU: 24,99€ (233% higher)
AU: $39.99 USD (300% higher)

Yeah, this is insane.

needaxeo

11-25-2011, 04:32 AM

It would bring down the cartel video game publishers built years ago (in the 90s), to have artificially higher price in Europe.

It seems unlikely since the misinterpretation / misunderstanding some have here is that the EU is going to create their own cartel for games :D

mmarios

11-25-2011, 08:16 AM

Is it really that hard to charge in just one currency ($, € or £) and let the exchange rate do it´s job?

^This but do it now and not when Euro is going down... because Valve is an American company this will happen only when USD will be much better than Euro

But if this ever happen or Euro stop exist because of crysis... Steam is done for me

costia

11-25-2011, 08:47 AM

many websites just let you choose the currency yourself
Is there a way to do this in steam?

Simplex

11-26-2011, 11:54 AM

GetGamesGo was one such websites - you could change currency to $ and pay less. They have abandoned this feature, I wonder why...

LastOneBreathin

11-26-2011, 01:14 PM

IMO it's such bull♥♥♥♥. I can't believe they're allowed to do this D:

lobski

11-29-2011, 01:50 AM

The European Citizens’ Initiative (ECI) came into fruition with the Lisbon Treaty a few years ago.

Has anyone tried using the ECI to get more fair prices on Steam? Or would this be an utter failure?

eydeeb

11-29-2011, 02:14 AM

Everything is futile as long as people who set the prices have more power and money than a normal everday person. Politicians can be bribed.

Fred DM

11-29-2011, 02:19 AM

i don't get it: everything is more expensive in Europe than it is in America, and games are only a minor item on that list. Steam is not an exception, it's part of the rule.

you'd have to change the entire regional pricing system currently in place. good luck with that...

Flex_Relax

11-29-2011, 02:25 AM

Well to tell you the truth i don't think the overall EU prices are that bad. For the New Releases sure, some games are a bit to expensive, but you also have Direct2Drive, Gamesplanet or even Green Man Gaming which usually have much lower prices for new releases.

There's really no point on complaining, Steam has great sales and a lot of cheap games even for EU market. If you want something cheaper for new releases, then you should look at the competition because they're doing a great job too.

eXoSolid

11-29-2011, 02:26 AM

Squishpoke

11-29-2011, 02:32 AM

I blame communists.

Karait

11-29-2011, 02:38 AM

Its really ridicilous, i want Bulletstorm for a while now, but if i want to buy it on steam in my country i have to buy it for 50 EURO, its full price like at release.
In the US i heard they sell it on 20 Dollar and in Russia even less.

i want bulletstorm at a fair price and not like this :(

edit: and yes on Direct2Drive and other sites you can buy it for 20 EURO or less, but i want it on Steam, if other countries have it on such price, why dont we.

Bulletstorm, Darkspore, and Shift 2 are "top rip-offs" for EU region according to Steamprices.com with Europeans asked to pay 3.3 times more than Americans. That's a shocker, especially considering Bulletstorm is a part of Origin sale at the moment and can be bought for an equivalent of five euros.

Trashcantoy

11-29-2011, 02:40 AM

Everything is futile as long as people who set the prices have more power and money than a normal everday person. Politicians can be bribed.
if you have that attitude towards everything in life you will get nowhere..

you are prolly from South or Eastern Europe but in other parts bribery is not a big issue (I want to say "a total non-issue" but I think thats a bit too far)

But for the initiative to work we have to get after all publishers that set unfair prices, EA being the prime example of a company with low prices in the US and high prices in Europe.

Lepinkäinen

11-29-2011, 02:45 AM

Bulletstorm is a part of Origin sale at the moment and can be bought for an equivalent of five euros.

It is? brb

EDIT and with "equivalent of five euros" you mean 10 euros. kk then I see this issue is not limited to steam. Not saying it is too expensive tho.

Karait

11-29-2011, 02:51 AM

It is? brb

EDIT and with "equivalent of five euros" you mean 10 euros. kk then I see this issue is not limited to steam. Not saying it is too expensive tho.

Well, it depends on the country. I can send you a screenshot and a link to currency exchange tables.

Lepinkäinen

11-29-2011, 02:55 AM

Well, it depends on the country. I can send you a screenshot and a link to currency exchange tables.

no need.

eXoSolid

11-29-2011, 02:55 AM

Bulletstorm, Darkspore, and Shift 2 are "top rip-offs" for EU region according to Steamprices.com with Europeans asked to pay 3.3 times more than Americans. That's a shocker, especially considering Bulletstorm is a part of Origin sale at the moment and can be bought for an equivalent of five euros.

That really sucks

PS: On Origin its 20 euro in my country and some people can get it at 5 EURO or 10 EURO, really insane is it

Europhoria

11-29-2011, 03:29 AM

I buy a lot of things (not just games) from the UK simply because it's much cheaper. Free shipping = win! :D

eXoSolid

11-29-2011, 03:34 AM

I buy a lot of things (not just games) from the UK simply because it's much cheaper. Free shipping = win! :D

Yes me too, especially from amazon uk :) , but some games need to be bought on Steam to work with steam, its stupid

geronimo789

11-29-2011, 03:43 AM

It's already bad on steam, but even worse on D2D and origin. It's almost like it's their motto.

Seen it cheaper elsewhere ? We raise the price and screw you over.
Origin, because we can and you have to take it in the ♥♥♥.

Lepinkäinen

11-29-2011, 03:48 AM

I buy a lot of things (not just games) from the UK simply because it's much cheaper. Free shipping = win! :D

Oh yeah, same here. I like using play.com a lot nowadays for a large part of my physical media and free shipping is a large part of that decision(with the low prices ofc). Never really even tried amazon, dunno why.

noodlesoup

11-29-2011, 03:55 AM

It ultimately comes down to the publishers and independant developers to set bare minimum prices, then valves cut and taxes are added on.

I believe somewhere along the line they also think "retail = digital download".

At least valve is aware of this blatant extortion, but I havnt seen evidence of them doing anything about it :<

Simplex

11-30-2011, 01:04 AM

Bulletstorm, Darkspore, and Shift 2 are "top rip-offs" for EU region according to Steamprices.com with Europeans asked to pay 3.3 times more than Americans. That's a shocker, especially considering Bulletstorm is a part of Origin sale at the moment and can be bought for an equivalent of five euros.
That is also a shocker considering Bulletstorm was developed in Europe.

Reginleifryu

12-02-2011, 01:18 PM

Disclaimer: There is nothing racial about this thread at all, this is all steam related, just read on. :)

So I'm not 100% sure of this, but it has come to my attention that there are different prices of games for the different regions of the globe. This is totally understandable when you're dealing with Euros, Rubles, Baht and so many other forms of currency, but two of the headlining countries have quite a gap in them.

Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, according to an American friend on Steam, was something around $49.99 or $59.99 USD?

Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, according to my Steam's regional positioning, is $99.99 USD.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I believe it is. I've made several trades with people in the last few days, and we've gotten our values between games mixed up because I would have bought a product for twice the value people think I have.

And I know what you're thinking, the Aussie dollar isn't strong enough to compete with the USD, that's why the prices are doubled.

According to Google (http://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1&nord=1#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&nord=1&site=webhp&source=hp&q=10%20AUD%20to%20USD&pbx=1&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=eb54dcc4cd8e1986&ion=1&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=eb54dcc4cd8e1986&biw=1366&bih=623&ion=1), as of 5:16 AM, Saturday, December the 3rd, 2011, the exchange rate is at:

10 Australian dollars = 10.21900 U.S. dollars

Yes, that is correct. The Aussie dollar is stronger than the US dollar.

So why are we paying almost twice as much for our games?

I'm not trying to start a flame war or cause a riot, but it's a little disheartening when I know my steam friends are getting their games for almost half of what I'm paying.

Normy

12-02-2011, 01:21 PM

Vizari

12-02-2011, 01:23 PM

Stop thinking you guys are the only ones getting screwed over. Europe has way higher prices than the US as well.

Reginleifryu

12-02-2011, 01:26 PM

Stop thinking you guys are the only ones getting screwed over. Europe has way higher prices than the US as well.

Never did I once mention Australians were the only ones. I did however say, 'it as come to my attention' which would connote that I have only recently learnt of all of this.

I did also state 'Please correct me if I'm wrong.'

Reginleifryu

12-02-2011, 01:27 PM

It's been here for a while now. Just buy the games elsewhere and activate on Steam. I usually buy from Greenman and Amazon. Valve doesn't deserve our money until they realize our dollar has been on parity with the US for quite some time now.

Fuuuaark. That really sucks balls. Thanks for the info man.

marsios

12-02-2011, 01:29 PM

Reginleifryu

12-02-2011, 01:36 PM

During the Autumn Sale $1AU was worth between $0.92US and $0.96US. The values do fluctuate a surprising amount. Yes I know, that still isn't equal, and as an Australian it also drives me up the wall at times as well. The only way we can actually change this is if we stop buying games from publishers who inflate their prices, and only buy from those who don't. But that isn't going to happen.

Yeah. It's just that too many people are unaware. Steam has a lot of Sales and people think they're getting good value for the money when really, they're still paying double on what people half the world over are playing.

You know what this could spark? A new branch of business. American gamers could run a service to buy games for you and steam trade them over, charging you a small percentage fee. Heck, I'd rather pay 5% extra to a guy for his service than pay 200% to a publisher.

The Relentless

12-02-2011, 01:45 PM

Everyone knows the difference between US and AUS is that we in the US are fat, and everyone in Australia talks funny. That's it.:p

KK_reborn

12-02-2011, 01:46 PM

Why do Video games cost so much in Australia? (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/11/why-do-videogames-cost-so-much/)

Australian game prices to drop by 2012 (http://www.destructoid.com/analyst-predicts-australian-game-prices-to-drop-by-2012-209084.phtml)

EvilKenshin

12-02-2011, 02:56 PM

Why do Video games cost so much in Australia? (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/11/why-do-videogames-cost-so-much/)

this one is irrelevant since its talking about physical copies; not digital distribution from an american site.

Stoib

12-02-2011, 03:10 PM

Australian game prices to drop by 2012 (http://www.destructoid.com/analyst-predicts-australian-game-prices-to-drop-by-2012-209084.phtml)
I'll believe it when I see it, in the meantime Valve will continue to lose business to ozgameshop (http://www.ozgameshop.com/) and greenmangaming (http://www.greenmangaming.com/).

s1234567890m

12-02-2011, 03:24 PM

this one is irrelevant since its talking about physical copies; not digital distribution from an american site.

Physical stores /distributors can and do pressure the publishers

notdeadyet

12-02-2011, 04:04 PM

i thought the only difference was that your games are heavily censored than american games?

Setarcos

12-02-2011, 04:09 PM

I'm not trying to start a flame war or cause a riot, but it's a little disheartening when I know my steam friends are getting their games for almost half of what I'm paying.

I mentioned it about 100 "aussie" threads ago, but it bears repeating. The average aussie has more disposable income than average US-ian... because over here in the "land of the free"(tm) we pay our average worker in singles.

(That and Valve/Steam aren't the final determiner of price.)
(And Brick & mortar stores in many countries have protectionist laws in place to keep online retailers from undercutting them.)

s1234567890m

12-02-2011, 04:11 PM

i thought the only difference was that your games are heavily censored than american games?

Yes, tho technically we dont have a rating higher then MA 15+ for video games... no R rating yet

minevittu

12-02-2011, 04:18 PM

AU prices in Steam are in US dollars. Also in Steam paying 100% more for a game is nothing special, I have seen worse. 300% higher prices. Not kidding.

And dont forget that Valve turned to using regional currencies for a reason. EA told them to do so.

HornetOne85

12-02-2011, 05:37 PM

this one is irrelevant since its talking about physical copies; not digital distribution from an american site.

Physical copies are relevant actually, because publishers are not allowed to undercut them with their digital copy pricing. Well, they can, but the retail store will threaten to boycott them and all those rubbish. And yes it has happen before. I can't remember the details, you should be able to Google them easily.

EvilKenshin

12-02-2011, 05:40 PM

And dont forget that Valve turned to using regional currencies for a reason. EA told them to do so.

actually the blame lays squarely on activisions shoulders; the very first price gouged game on steam was cod 4

Physical copies are relevant actually, because publishers are not allowed to undercut them with their digital copy pricing. Well, they can, but the retail store will threaten to boycott them and all those rubbish. And yes it has happen before. I can't remember the details, you should be able to Google them easily.

maybe so; but there are plenty of games on steam that are well above what any australian retailer is charging; steam is still trying to charge $90 for modern warfare 2; no australian retailer charges more than $70 for that even EB games. Same goes for the sims 3; steam wants $80; no one charges more than $49 here.

PieceOfMind

12-02-2011, 06:04 PM

The best you can do is make sure everyone you know personally who buys pc games is aware of the ripoffs. The only reason the prices are as they are now is that people are buying. I hope that most of those people buying are simply unaware of the unfair pricing so don't know better. If you knowingly pay the ripoff price, even for games on sale, you're reinforcing the practice.

There are options to get around the ripoff pricing:

1) Importing from overseas stores (typically the UK) like ozgameshop.com, cdwow.com, dungeoncrawl.com.au.
2) Getting an overseas friend (usually North America) to gift the game to you
3) Other digital stores like GreenManGaming, GamersGate, direct2drive.

Reginleifryu

12-02-2011, 08:01 PM

I'll believe it when I see it, in the meantime Valve will continue to lose business to ozgameshop (http://www.ozgameshop.com/) and greenmangaming (http://www.greenmangaming.com/).

♥♥♥♥, that's awesome. Thanks heaps man.

Reginleifryu

12-02-2011, 08:10 PM

Also, does anyone know how Steam judges your regional positioning? Is it by IP or something other method?

Europhoria

12-02-2011, 08:11 PM

It's been here for a while now. Just buy the games elsewhere and activate on Steam. I usually buy from Greenman and Amazon. Valve doesn't deserve our money until they realize our dollar has been on parity with the US for quite some time now.

None of the Amazon websites will allow the purchase of digital copies outside their boarders but I think Amazon.com will allow for delivery.

EvilKenshin

12-02-2011, 09:16 PM

None of the Amazon websites will allow the purchase of digital copies outside their boarders but I think Amazon.com will allow for delivery.

amazon.com allows for shipping to australia with their games but the .uk one doesn't unfortunately

Fat Cat

12-02-2011, 09:20 PM

obviously the difference has nothing to do with censorship or tax or anything right.

Scared

12-02-2011, 09:35 PM

obviously the difference has nothing to do with censorship or tax or anything right.

Nope, no taxes or anything are applied to digital purchases. All the extra money goes directly to the publisher as pure profit (except for whatever valve takes)

The values do fluctuate a surprising amount.

We have been at or above parity for roughly 2 years now with minimal fluctuation.

malmute

12-02-2011, 09:37 PM

The price difference is simply because when the AUD was weak against the USD that is what retail game prices were in AUS and the greedy people involved do not want to take less and adjust the prices accordingly now that the AUD has parity. It is all about greed and no other reason. Seriously, if I was AUS I wouldn't buy anything from Steam and would use another company that charges in USD.

s1234567890m

12-02-2011, 09:41 PM

malmute

12-02-2011, 10:01 PM

Dude, I mean the same price in USD no matter if you live in New York or Sydney. In Canada we pay USA prices at Steam so why not AUS too? There is no valid reason for it to be the way it is.

s1234567890m

12-02-2011, 10:10 PM

Because you are on the same continent. Retail gets to bully the publishers which get to set prices on steam

malmute

12-02-2011, 10:13 PM

They don't bully GamersGate so I call bs and think Valve also has something to do with this regional pricing and not just the game publisher/retail stores. GG is located in Europe, they charge me USD and the same price the USA pays too. In retail stores they charge us $10.00 more for a game compared to Americans and that is because they refuse to adjust the price according to the value of the CAD vs USD too. Why hasn't retail in Canada bullied Valve into charging us more for games?

s1234567890m

12-02-2011, 10:21 PM

They dont bully GG they bully the publishers and the publishers set the price accordingly. Steam is the majority of the DD sales, read into it what you want

Scared

12-02-2011, 10:58 PM

Why merge the Australian pricing threads with the one talking about the value of the Euro, we don't use the Euro in Australia.

s1234567890m

12-02-2011, 11:23 PM

b/c they are both complaigning about regional pricing

crunchyfrog555

12-03-2011, 12:35 AM

They dont bully GG they bully the publishers and the publishers set the price accordingly. Steam is the majority of the DD sales, read into it what you want

They "bully" the publishers?

What complete rubbish. If they did this, there would be complaints from developers all over the internet, and rival services would find it a lot easier to set up similar services.

I do wish people would stop this tinfoil-hatted foundation-less nonsense.

For new developers who are unused to the retail market (as a whole) Valve assist with pricing by suggesting an optimum price or prices. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT TO OTHER RETAIL MARKETS. I've worked for a few companies where we would have to do precisely the same things, from fruit and veg to insurance.

But, here's the most salient point - Valve cannot bully, whine, force, or otherwise a developer or publisher to charge a certain price because they HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT over the games in question. It would be quite wrong and illegal to do so.

s1234567890m

12-03-2011, 05:16 AM

I mean the physical retail chains/distributors that buy the large numbers of games from the pubs not the steam type guys who pay them as people buy the digital copies.

JB hifi have made noise about going around the main australian distributors and importing cheaper but its more then likely a publicity stunt

needaxeo

12-03-2011, 08:46 AM

Nope, no taxes or anything are applied to digital purchases.

Eh? That's not true.

pokedex2536

12-03-2011, 08:53 AM

Nope, no taxes or anything are applied to digital purchases.

There are taxes for people who live in the state of washington (like me). If a company is in the same area you are (at least in the united states of america) you have to pay the taxes for that site.

limpfen

12-03-2011, 05:11 PM

I am considering to stop buy anything from steam until they put some region prices for Eastern Europe. I refuse to pay more than USA/UK customers.

Do something!

CTRL ALT DEL !

12-03-2011, 05:23 PM

Really.... this thread is still getting bumped. Use steam trade and get games at realistic prices.

TherapyFailed

12-04-2011, 12:35 AM

Nah, i would like for them to treat me as a normal customer. I don't want to search for workarounds to get a game cheaper, i would like to buy a game without worrying how much others pay in the same shop. So they can offer me a game at "realistic price", as you call them, or they can keep it.

NoBridges

12-04-2011, 12:47 AM

Only buy games at steam when they're on sale. Brand new games are 20-40% cheaper at retail compared to steam as well so if you absolutely must have the latest and greatest, I suggest you look elsewhere or you will get ripped off.

Mynyddawg

12-04-2011, 04:45 AM

Hi,

Since december 2009, the directive "services" directly apply to EU consumers. You can find it here : http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32006L0123:EN:HTML

I would like to draw your attention on (95).

The principle of non-discrimination within the internal market means that access by a recipient, and especially by a consumer, to a service on offer to the public may not be denied or restricted by application of a criterion, included in general conditions made available to the public, relating to the recipient's nationality or place of residence.

It does not follow that it will be unlawful discrimination if provision were made in such general conditions for different tariffs and conditions to apply to the provision of a service, where those tariffs, prices and conditions are justified for objective reasons that can vary from country to country, such as additional costs incurred because of the distance involved or the technical characteristics of the provision of the service, or different market conditions, such as higher or lower demand influenced by seasonality, different vacation periods in the Member States and pricing by different competitors, or extra risks linked to rules differing from those of the Member State of establishment. [...]

Steams still uses tiers to determine prices within European Union. I think no objectives reasons justify these tiers.
+ Steam detects your localization and forces you to use the store related to your country. A german consumer cannot use italian store.

So for me, it sounds illegal since this directive apply (december 2009).

I remember we wrote an email to the European Commission and they replied telling us it was not illegal at the time but we need to check this directive.

We need to know what are the objectives reasons justifying these tiers. And if they are no objectives reasons, then prices must be the same within EU.

I know this is an old thread but I think this new argument raises a legitimate question.

Let me know what you think and please excuse me for my poor english.

Mynyddawg

12-04-2011, 04:51 AM

Here is a thread for EU consumers, about Steam using tiers to determine prices within EU : http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2270687

subsonika

12-04-2011, 05:00 AM

This looks like a case for..... Crunchyfrog (beams Crunchyfrog spotlight onto skyscraper)

MSPreacher

12-04-2011, 05:01 AM

I would guess those laws don't apply to companies based outside the EU, like Steam.

Fred DM

12-04-2011, 05:15 AM

Eunos

12-04-2011, 05:19 AM

This looks like a case for..... Crunchyfrog (beams Crunchyfrog spotlight onto skyscraper)

Agreed!

All this law stuff gives me a headache.

Gishank

12-04-2011, 05:23 AM

Firstly, the games on Steam are not a 'service', they are a product so the declaration doesn't apply to them. Valve is a US-based company and has to abide by US laws and regulations. European Union laws and regulations such as the one noted only apply to member states/countries, in addition the article in question only applies to EU member states that do not have laws conflicting it (see '11')

Regardless; this is pointless.

Mynyddawg

12-04-2011, 05:27 AM

you do realize that if Steam was forced to not distinguish between different EU pricing tiers they would simply bump all EU countries up to the most expensive tier, right? that's what i would do in such a case.

this would only backfire. :rolleyes:

besides, i'm fairly sure an American company wouldn't give a rat's backside about intra-EU legislation, nor should it.
1) You're implying it wouldn't change anything for steams sales. If you assume that, then there is already no point in making tiers and it's better to charge everyone at the highter price.

2) This would be the case if we were buying products to the american store. It was like this by the past but not anymore so they cannot ignore laws applying where they are selling products (and that's why they can't sell some games in Germany because of censorship).

But that's only my opinion and my interpretation of this. I don't have a lot of knowledge about law matters.

Edit Gishank : are you sure it's not a service ? Steam looks like a service to me. If they ban me, I can't keep the games I "own".
Also "laws conflicting it" cannot violate this directive.

{Yotsuba}

12-04-2011, 05:30 AM

Mynyddawg

12-04-2011, 05:40 AM

I seem to recall someone already submitted a case to the appropriate EU agency on this and they concluded that Valve were well within their rights to do as they are. There used to be a rather large thread in these forums (probably still is, if you look for it) in which you'll probably find a link to the relevant report that was issued.
Yes I remember. I receive the letter from the European Commission. That's why I'm raising the question now. We had the answer as the implementing period of the services directive was still pending and they told us practices such as price differentials depending on the place of residence will be prohibited (unless objective reasons).

Anyway it may not apply but I'm asking :p

Gishank

12-04-2011, 05:43 AM

Steam itself is a service, which is free - everywhere.
The games however are a product.

But as said, Steam/Valve is not applicable to the legislation in question.

Mynyddawg

12-04-2011, 05:52 AM

Steam itself is a service, which is free - everywhere.
The games however are a product.

But as said, Steam/Valve is not applicable to the legislation in question.

EDIT;
And yes, member state home laws that conflict with it take priority. If you read the document in question rather than picking out the things that benefit your arguement.
I'm still not convinced about Steam selling products insted of "right to use". I don't really own these games and if Steam stops to work, I just have nothing. But ok.

When I read the applicable law in the suscriber agreement, I have doubt that only US law applies :

14. APPLICABLE LAW/JURISDICTION

The terms of this section may not apply to European Union consumers.

You agree that this Agreement shall be deemed to have been made and executed in the State of Washington, and any dispute arising hereunder shall be resolved in accordance with the law of Washington. You agree that any claim asserted in any legal proceeding by you against Valve shall be commenced and maintained exclusively in any state or federal court located in King County, Washington, having subject matter jurisdiction with respect to the dispute between the parties and you hereby consent to the exclusive jurisdiction of such courts. In any dispute arising under this Agreement, the prevailing party will be entitled to attorneys' fees and expenses.

Finally, yes, Member States law prevails but it cannot goes against the directive. And no, it's not my "argument". I'm here to discuss and I honestly don't really care about it being legal or not since I can already buy my games where I want and Steam are doing great sales. I don't have anything against them personally so please don't make this a personal war. I'm not sure of anything and I don't see the problem with raising questions.

Elenoe

12-04-2011, 07:29 AM

I'm still not convinced about Steam selling products insted of "right to use". I don't really own these games and if Steam stops to work, I just have nothing. But ok.
Well, maybe you should read agreement you accepted then. You don't even own "right to use" the game. You just paying to access Steam service.

Like you would pay subscription for WOW and for more money you get better horse. You don't own the game nor the horse. You are paying for access to WOW and the horse is provided as bonus. Same with Steam. You have namely no right to that games whatsoever.

You are paying for Steam and Steam let you play games as they like. And if you read the SSA carefully, you will know that they can deny or allow you access to any game by THEIR wish. Without notify you, without any reason given and without any chance to stop them from your side.

You have no right to play the game you paid. Well... SSA told so. You can use local laws which could grant you something... but you agreed to SSA (which is not above laws in the ends).

Mynyddawg

12-04-2011, 08:00 AM

Well, maybe you should read agreement you accepted then. You don't even own "right to use" the game. You just paying to access Steam service.

Like you would pay subscription for WOW and for more money you get better horse. You don't own the game nor the horse. You are paying for access to WOW and the horse is provided as bonus. Same with Steam. You have namely no right to that games whatsoever.

You are paying for Steam and Steam let you play games as they like. And if you read the SSA carefully, you will know that they can deny or allow you access to any game by THEIR wish. Without notify you, without any reason given and without any chance to stop them from your side.

You have no right to play the game you paid. Well... SSA told so. You can use local laws which could grant you something... but you agreed to SSA (which is not above laws in the ends).
Well that's what I said : Steam don't sell products but they provide a service.

mmarios

12-04-2011, 10:18 AM

So we use the same store but some people pay more than others... I love that.

This is going to make me think twice before I buy a game from steam again ;) Even if the game is 75% off, because sometimes 100% off is better than 75% off.
Especially when I see a company doing these things which I can not stand, I mean there is no difference on taxes or anything else than US, just the prices is higher that's all.

I won't stop playing video games but at least Valve make me pay for the games I play

crunchyfrog555

12-04-2011, 12:51 PM

This looks like a case for..... Crunchyfrog (beams Crunchyfrog spotlight onto skyscraper)

*Yawn* You rang? (Wonders what a Crunchyfrog spotlight would actually look like).

In fairness, I contacted the EU directorate because of my belief (I emphasise that word as EU law isn't my field of speciality) that there were laws being broken.

As detailed in this thread, they've written back saying they're looking into it, particularly since the Sky TV débacle.

That's about all I can add.

But if you wish to, I thoroughly recommend badgering the EU directorate personally (via your Euro MP). From experience, EU tend to take notice only when somebody kicks them up the behind.

I'll still be keeping an eye on this, but that's really all I can offer at present.

needaxeo

12-04-2011, 02:39 PM

Steams still uses tiers to determine prices within European Union. I think no objectives reasons justify these tiers.

You thinking something doesn't make it true. This is, in general, a good thing :)

crunchyfrog555

12-04-2011, 02:46 PM

sometimes 100% off is better than 75% off.

You don't say! Well, you learn something new every day ;)

NeXDemise

12-05-2011, 09:16 AM

We should chip in and send Gaben a currency converter.

crunchyfrog555

12-05-2011, 09:36 AM

We should chip in and send Gaben a currency converter.

Lol, nice one!

... and what currency would you accept my donation in *ahem*?

LightninLew

12-05-2011, 12:37 PM

Of course there are the obvious reasons (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770231) that shall not be mentioned (we don't want banning (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/member.php?u=381537) now do we?)

But also, it seems Steam thinks that a day ends at around 6PM here in the UK. Now, I'm not saying every time zone should have it's own Steam store with it's own deadlines, release dates and such.
What I am saying is 6 hours is a long time, and I suppose it's even longer the further east you go. Way too often have I seen a Steam deal say "today's deal" then think "Oh, I'll come back to this in a couple of minutes" what with 6PM being the time I would usually be checking Steam. Only to come back to the game being 4x the price I was expecting. Why not have two or three separate clocks, maybe one for America, one for Europe and one for Asia? It can't be just me that gets annoyed at this system.

I know Someone is going to read this and think "stop moaning about paying full price for a game" but that's not the point. Most of the time these are games that I would not normally consider buying, am undecided about, or think are not worth the full price. So they are missing out on my money, and possibly any friends' who I would recommend the game to.

Prysewhert(GER)

12-05-2011, 12:40 PM

i must say, my inner internet clock is now running at valve time. 7pm (here in germany) is the time i know when to watch out for new deals and such.

doesn't bother me.

s1234567890m

12-05-2011, 12:41 PM

So you know when the sale ends, you see it, but dont buy it?

Fred DM

12-05-2011, 12:41 PM

i don't get what your problem is. :confused: Valve have a fixed time when they update the store and the deals. where i am, that's 19:00 most of the year. that would be 18:00 GMT. each deal lasts at least 24 hours, Weekend Deals and Midweek Madness actually last - i think - 6 hours longer and overlap.

TeKraken

12-05-2011, 12:41 PM

Way too often have I seen a Steam deal say "today's deal" then think "Oh, I'll come back to this in a couple of minutes" what with 6PM being the time I would usually be checking Steam.

If your going to miss the time just buy it earlier instead of coming back in a couple of minutes?

Or am I missing your point?

Jaws™

12-05-2011, 12:43 PM

I'm lost, it doesn't matter what time the daily deal starts/ends, everyone has 24 hours to purchase.

If you miss today's by a few minutes then you have 24 hours to buy tomorrow's and so on and so on.

Or am I missing your point too?

JimmyMcNulty

12-05-2011, 12:44 PM

I actually prefer it like this for us (UK).

Get home, see the daily deal. Much better than having to turn the computer on in the morning and checking don't you think?

Then again, i'm a night person.

KK_reborn

12-05-2011, 12:48 PM

I don't think he realized that the deal started the day before at 6pm and he had 24hours from then to buy it but instead waited till 6:02pm to buy the game the day after the 24 hours was up.

GirlPower23

12-05-2011, 12:56 PM

Vizari

12-05-2011, 12:58 PM

Not an issue for me. The dailies last 24 hours for everyone. If you can't manage to get online for 24 hours you're going to have a problem regardless of what times they use.

MonkeySeeker

12-05-2011, 12:59 PM

Didn't you see the countdown timer telling you that you didn't have a few minutes to buy it?

LightninLew

12-05-2011, 01:51 PM

I'm not an idiot, I don't think we get a shorter time with the deal. My point is that the deals change over pretty much at the exact time people will be most likely to buy it. I have missed them more than once because of this.
I do know there is a timer but the words "today's deal" imply that the deal will be there for the rest of the day.

I don't know who decided to merge me with this thread just because I had a link to it, the main point of my tread was completely different and has nothing to do with prices. Just because I referenced this thread does not mean I was making the same point.
What passes for a forum moderator here?

caby

12-05-2011, 01:56 PM

I get what you are saying Lightnin but every store (if the game is available) gets a full 24 hours to purchase. That gives you (if you sleep the average 8 hours) a 16 hour window to buy the game. One of those hours must be conveniant for you to purchase it. I know sometimes you may miss out on deals because you've gone out to dinner or whatnot but that's just unlucky. I have no issues with the daily deal and I accept that I'm not in whatever country it is designed for (though us Aussies get it pretty good, starts at 4am and ends at 4am, it would be more annoying if it started and ended at 8pm, but that really is just tough

LightninLew

12-05-2011, 01:56 PM

So you know when the sale ends, you see it, but dont buy it?

No, I only worked out the time a "day" ends here in the UK today, after missing yet another deal. I don't know how many I have missed or if there is always a timer, but I only noticed the timer today as well. I think the problem is that the main focus is on the "TODAY ONLY" rather than the tiny little timer in the corner.

SolarInferno

12-05-2011, 02:03 PM

Yes, there's always a timer. Yes, the deadline is always 18:00(GMT), as long as I've watched the daily deals.

There's only a "TODAY'S DEAL" which is actually a slightly smaller font than what my quotation marks are around. The timer is always directly opposite it.

LightninLew

12-05-2011, 02:09 PM

On the main store page right now there is a blue banner, with a massive title, which -other than the spotlight adverts- is the biggest font on the screen. It clearly says "Daily Wishlist Giveaway" With a large green arrow with price cut info pointing to the game. The timer is one of the smallest things on the page.
When clicked there are two timers, but these are again dwarfed by the large blue banners (two of them on this page).

I'm not trying to argue about how I should get longer to buy the games, but there should definitely either be more emphasis on the timer, or different timers for different continents.

crunchyfrog555

12-05-2011, 02:44 PM

scotland372

12-05-2011, 02:47 PM

or different timers for different continents.

The timer would be the same for every continent since it's a countdown to the end of the deal.

mmarios

12-13-2011, 03:47 PM

Still 1 Euro = 1.3038 U.S. dollars just saying!

diHobbes

12-22-2011, 10:33 AM

Mass Effect 1 5$ = 3,74€
Mass Effect 2 5$ = 5€

WTF? Please guys dont't buy games with the 1$=1€ conversion. They'll change it if nobody buys them.

Monster_user

12-22-2011, 11:08 AM

there should definitely either be more emphasis on the timer, or different timers for different continents.

When do these timers normally end? Early morning, middle of the afternoon?

Is there any reason why you would rather not buy a game within 15 minutes of it going on sale?

graspee

12-22-2011, 11:25 AM

Markcheeks

12-22-2011, 06:21 PM

I completely agree, 1€ is NOT 1$, its amazing that they still keep doing this.
OFF-TOPIC:This is one of the longest running threads ever, since 2009 and its almost 2012, daaamn.

crunchyfrog555

12-22-2011, 07:11 PM

They even added 4 hours to the timer for this sale, which is a fantastic idea, in my mind. If you are undecided about something you can wait for the next day's deals, and if nothing strikes you then you still have 4 hours to buy the deals from the previous day. Genius.

Indeed. This is precisely my first thought when I saw the new extensions.

That, and it helps those who might be having the inevitable payment problems due to outdated online banking systems at this time of year.

strandedPL

12-24-2011, 08:01 AM

It's been officially 3 years since we all pay more. Join the group!

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/1e1us

Never forget.

Simplex

12-25-2011, 01:32 AM

Wanted to buy splinter cell conviction - 100% more expensive in EU than in UK/US - no, thank you and merry christmas, Steam!

needaxeo

12-26-2011, 05:23 PM

But also, it seems Steam thinks that a day ends at around 6PM here in the UK. Now, I'm not saying every time zone should have it's own Steam store with it's own deadlines, release dates and such.
What I am saying is 6 hours is a long time, and I suppose it's even longer the further east you go.

Well, the solution is easy. If you check after 6pm you see the new deals with (at least) 24 hours to go.

That's the maximum time you can get to decide to purchase.

The truth is though you have your complaint back to front. Deals aren't ending "early" in the UK. They are ending "later"

A good example, sometimes there is a weekend deal that ends at Monday 10am PST, in Valve-land. In the UK we get until 6pm on Monday to buy it.

That's 8 hours more (of course it's not really more time, because the deal starts 8 hours later) but, in your logic, where you think the deal is ending at 6pm, 6 hours early, it isn't.

Firstly, the deals don't start at midnight, secondly, they end here (in terms of clock time) 8 hours later than in the USA (at least the parts of the USA that share Valve's timezone)

So, in summary

- Valve usually work in PST. That's usually 8 hours behind us, not ahead. So things happen here later in terms of the time displayed on the clock. If Valve were to make sales start and end here at the same clock time then you'd have missed these sales by an additional 8 hours on top of the few minutes that made you complain.

- Wait until after 6pm (given the current popularity and server load, perhaps an hour or 2 after), see what deals there are and then you should have well over 20 hours to decide to buy or not.

- They are currently adding another 4 hours on, so the previous days daily deals are available until 10pm. So I'm surprised you missed anything.

- Quite often later in the sale they use a previous game, so if you did miss something it might reappear.

- People are winning coupons. So if you say what you missed someone might gift or trade you a coupon for it, so you can buy on 2nd Jan at up to 50% off.

AeddGynvael

01-02-2012, 03:51 PM

No problem.
I'm setting up a big store somewhere in Europe.
Upon checkout, you must provide ID.
After this, if you are European and your products total up to, say, 60 euro, you pay and leave.
If you are American however, you need to pay double the amount in your own currency, so 120 dollars.

I believe it is all fair. I'm just replicating Steam's great business model that doesn't rip off Europeans at all, right?

gemezz

01-02-2012, 04:06 PM

Valve does not follow some eu rules at all! Valve should get huge ♥♥♥ fine!

Vaporz

01-08-2012, 08:19 AM

It's funny how whenever this topic is brought up in other threads, sycophants instantly try to argue that it's all up to the publishers.

If you look at steamprices.com or similar, you can see that Valve does the same thing with Portal 2, L4D etc.

Valve also strongly encourages other publishers to do the same:
http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php
3. Who sets the price for my game on Steam?

Pricing is very title specific, and we've got a lot of data and experience to help you decide on what the best price is for your title. We'll work with you to figure out pricing.

In other words: "We already know europeans will bend over and take it, we'll help you give it to them as well."

Etrud

01-08-2012, 08:26 AM

You guys don't have to use steam.

Hulahoop

01-08-2012, 10:08 AM

You guys don't have to use steam.

Don't be a jerk.

It wasn't always this way, that's why this thread got started at all.

When the users already purchased dozens and hundreds of games and you start screwing them, it's easy to say "go somewhere else."

Well maybe if you got refund for all purchased games, you could look into alternative digital stores.

Who knows, maybe the time will come, when we will be able to migrate all our purchased games (subscriptions ;)) to another service. Then if there is a service with fair prices for EU/AU and better support, you can be sure i won't be using steam and will move on.

Until then, i will be on steam, but i'm gonna vote with my wallet and buy from retail/gg/gmg or ofc steam(preferably get it gifted or trade), when the deals are good.

That doesn't stop me from voicing my opinion and saying that this unfair regional pricing rip-off sux.

Alexandre.

01-08-2012, 10:54 AM

lol
It's not like it happens only on Steam. It happens in stores as well. A new game sells for 70 euros in Europe and for 70$ in North America.

crunchyfrog555

01-08-2012, 11:32 AM

Valve does not follow some eu rules at all! Valve should get huge ♥♥♥ fine!

Not true.

Look back in this thread. I've challenged the EU directorate on Steam's practices, and as it currently stands, it appears to be above board, according to them.

However, in the wake of Sky TV and their practices, changes are afoot.

lol
It's not like it happens only on Steam. It happens in stores as well. A new game sells for 70 euros in Europe and for 70$ in North America.

Yes, but therein lies the crux of the problem. If we wish to buy a US copy and import it, we are free to do so.

If we wish to take advantage of the US Steam store prices, we cannot.

And that's why there ARE changes being made in the EU.

novayuna

01-09-2012, 12:15 AM

It's funny how whenever this topic is brought up in other threads, sycophants instantly try to argue that it's all up to the publishers.

If you look at steamprices.com or similar, you can see that Valve does the same thing with Portal 2, L4D etc.

Of course Valve "does the same" with their own titles. You have to distinguish between Valve as publisher and Valve as owner of Steam. If the other publishers really wanted fair prices for their titles on Steam, they could easily change them. But they don't want to have fair prices because they know that the Europeans are willing to pay €50-60 for a game.

Karait

01-09-2012, 03:38 AM

lol
It's not like it happens only on Steam. It happens in stores as well. A new game sells for 70 euros in Europe and for 70$ in North America.

Bah, I was checking out the prices of Razer accessories the other day and it turns out they too follow the $1 = €1 scheme. Is being European a punishable offence these days?

NoBridges

01-09-2012, 03:47 AM

lol
It's not like it happens only on Steam. It happens in stores as well. A new game sells for 70 euros in Europe and for 70$ in North America.

35-40 euros yeah.

SteveMac

01-09-2012, 03:56 AM

Yes, but therein lies the crux of the problem. If we wish to buy a US copy and import it, we are free to do so.

If we wish to take advantage of the US Steam store prices, we cannot.

And that's why there ARE changes being made in the EU.

I would love to be able to have the option to buy in whatever currency I like, or at least be offered a fair exchange rate.

MystMan

01-09-2012, 04:21 AM

I completely agree, 1€ is NOT 1$, its amazing that they still keep doing this.
OFF-TOPIC:This is one of the longest running threads ever, since 2009 and its almost 2012, daaamn.

And the # of posts.....OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAND!!!

I had to! I just had to do it! :eek:

But yeah, any realistic possibility that publisher/politicians will ever adjust this thing? "not buying it" is not gonna work unless done en masse by everybody in several countries, which is unrealistic.

NoBridges

01-09-2012, 04:35 AM

I would love to be able to have the option to buy in whatever currency I like, or at least be offered a fair exchange rate.

You can on GOG.com

needaxeo

01-09-2012, 05:00 AM

I would love to be able to have the option to buy in whatever currency I like, or at least be offered a fair exchange rate.

It's moot. You're not really free to buy stuff from the US and import into the UK.

There are some fairly obviously restricted items, but there are some less obvious charges, taxes and levies too as well as the VAT we're accustomed to paying in the UK and import duty - not to mention the shipping charges and, of course, the risk that what you buy has a fault and you need to send it back.

e.g I wanted to buy one of those large dota 2 mousepads from valve's store, but you've got 2 basic legal choices (i,e that don't involve smuggling or pretending something is a gift when it isn't)

- Spend a small amount (around £15 I think) and then your postage is going to more or less double the cost, making whatever you've bought, if £=$ a very expensive item, but at least you aren't adding VAT and import duty on top.

- Spend more, that reduces the %age of the total that shipping represents, but then you get hit for the extras. Get to >£135 and it's probably cheaper to buy in the UK.

So, for all the blather about $=£=€ or whatever, you can wander into your local store and buy one of the big gaming mousepads for £10-£20 (sans the Dota 2 or Valve related logo of course) but made by the same people. That's a lot cheaper because someone else has imported it, paid the shipping and taxes and spread the cost of those using the economies of scale.

So, start your import business by all means (if you do, get a deal with Valve to stock their merchandise) but buying stuff from the USA is not really a cheap way of buying things whatever price you see on the label in their stores.

SteveMac

01-09-2012, 05:32 AM

It's moot. You're not really free to buy stuff from the US and import into the UK.

There are some fairly obviously restricted items, but there are some less obvious charges, taxes and levies too as well as the VAT we're accustomed to paying in the UK and import duty - not to mention the shipping charges and, of course, the risk that what you buy has a fault and you need to send it back.

e.g I wanted to buy one of those large dota 2 mousepads from valve's store, but you've got 2 basic legal choices (i,e that don't involve smuggling or pretending something is a gift when it isn't)

- Spend a small amount (around £15 I think) and then your postage is going to more or less double the cost, making whatever you've bought, if £=$ a very expensive item, but at least you aren't adding VAT and import duty on top.

- Spend more, that reduces the %age of the total that shipping represents, but then you get hit for the extras. Get to >£135 and it's probably cheaper to buy in the UK.

So, for all the blather about $=£=€ or whatever, you can wander into your local store and buy one of the big gaming mousepads for £10-£20 (sans the Dota 2 or Valve related logo of course) but made by the same people. That's a lot cheaper because someone else has imported it, paid the shipping and taxes and spread the cost of those using the economies of scale.

So, start your import business by all means (if you do, get a deal with Valve to stock their merchandise) but buying stuff from the USA is not really a cheap way of buying things whatever price you see on the label in their stores.

That's a really good explanation and I completely agree with what you said, I wouldn't buy anything from the US if it involved any sort of shipping as the cost would outweigh any sort of discount buying in dollars would give me and then be charged for importing it.

What I don't understand, is that on the Steam store buying digital products that require no shipping, we're still charged at the $1 = £1/€1 rate.

I completely agree that they have to raise the price slightly in certain regions due to the various countries taxes and charges, but that shouldn't make the product price equal the same amount in another currency.

With my previous post I was just stating I would love to be able to get at least a good exchange rate and then get charged whatever taxes and the charges are for that item.

There are plenty of stores that we can get games from at retail price, far far cheaper than actually getting a digital product on Steam.

It won't stop me buying on Steam, as I love the concept and I have a fairly large collection of games - But if the prices were more fair, every single game purchase for me would be through Steam.

Shona

01-09-2012, 05:43 AM

lol
It's not like it happens only on Steam. It happens in stores as well. A new game sells for 70 euros in Europe and for 70$ in North America.
Are you sure what you say? Because it is completly wrong

If a store sell a game in North America for $70 then i pay as European only 54,91€ - If you bought a game in europe for 70€ you pay $89,22

Because of this $1 = 1€ crap i buy new steam games in england and save ~15-20€ as pre-purchase

So last year i bought Batman: Arham City for 25€ (~$32) and Portal 2 for 27€ (~$34). If i would bought it on steam, I would pay ~100€ (~$127) on pre-purchase for it. So i saved 48€ (~$61) and i'm happy about this^^

aceofspadess

01-09-2012, 06:53 AM

Im not sure should i start buying new steam games (it doesnt really matter if its 5e game) from usa and pay to them with paypal...

meltra

01-09-2012, 07:18 AM

Heres the reason: greed.

crunchyfrog555

01-09-2012, 07:22 AM

I would love to be able to have the option to buy in whatever currency I like, or at least be offered a fair exchange rate.

Sorry, but I really don't understand why you're saying that?

Where do you live, out of curiosity? Maybe you're just not aware of your options?

mmarios

01-09-2012, 07:45 AM

Heres the reason: greed.

+ Rep

1 Euro = 1.27 USD rightnow and still $1 = €1 after all.

And another lie: Valve doesn't set the prices on Steam, why should they? It's not even their platform <-- This is how stupid you look to me when I read these kind of comments when you say Steam doesn't set up the prices

crunchyfrog555

01-09-2012, 08:45 AM

+ Rep

1 Euro = 1.27 USD rightnow and still $1 = €1 after all.

And another lie: Valve doesn't set the prices on Steam, why should they? It's not even their platform <-- This is how stupid you look to me when I read these kind of comments when you say Steam doesn't set up the prices

Actually, it's not a lie.

Valve CANNOT set the prices as they have no legal right of ownership of the products. It is a wholly different situation to a "physical" shop buying their stock where they have ownership and can do what they wish with their stock (within reason).

I do wish people would understand this.

Of course, ask yourself this: If Valve DID set the prices that would mean they DID have ownership rights, and if that were so, how can they possibly claim a percentage from every sale, if they already have ownership?

Also, ask yourself this: If Valve were setting prices on products that aren't theirs, how come the prices charged are all over the place. If it were the case, there would be some degree of uniformity, a la Xbox Live with it's 400, 800, 1200 point ratios.

Fair's fair, regional pricing is a shocking thing, but at least get your facts right if you're going to have a pop at Valve.

tmk

01-09-2012, 09:02 AM

You guys don't have to use steam.
OK, so tell me how to play, eg. Civilization V without Steam installed? There are many games that require Steam to play so next time think about it before you say something stupid...

epsylon_Z1

01-09-2012, 09:11 AM

Be a savvy gamer and look for deals on other digital download stores .

Parusa

01-09-2012, 10:32 AM

Be a savvy gamer and look for deals on other digital download stores .

Or only buy games twice a year during the summer and Chrismas sales.

needaxeo

01-09-2012, 05:06 PM

What I don't understand, is that on the Steam store buying digital products that require no shipping, we're still charged at the $1 = £1/€1 rate.

This is a bit of a misnomer isn't it?

"780 petabytes of data sent to users during 2011" that's not done with an old 486 sat in the corner running a free copy of linux and an ftp server is it? :)

Ok, there might not be significant differences between distributing on the internet from one country to another but the internet is certainly not the magical "free" distribution method the media often portrays it as.

I completely agree that they have to raise the price slightly in certain regions due to the various countries taxes and charges, but that shouldn't make the product price equal the same amount in another currency.

Pricing is never going to work as the founders of these $1=€1 threads and groups hope.

But it seems rather moot just after Xmas anyway, I can't be the only one who now has a small pile of new games (perhaps some have a large pile), some I've not even played yet, bought for 50-75% off.

The way I see it, Steam works differently from retail and so it's not a good comparison. Yes, sometimes a game might be cheaper in a store, or on a website that ships a box, but the reverse happens with the various daily, midweek and seasonal sales on Steam. Steam seem to be experimenting with and creating their own pricing model rather than copying retail.

Some (perhaps not you) seem to think that Steam has to work like a retail shop and are quick to point out when they think it isn't. For example, if a recent release is more quickly discounted elsewhere they complain as though Steam should do the same. Why? Why don't they just buy it?

Yet, at the same time, they use the reverse arguments, pointing out that Steam isn't a shop when they think it should mean something is again cheaper.

So, Steam should be, in their eyes, discounting when the store does and cheaper too because they aren't a store. It's just a childish fantasy. Albeit one that actually comes true at least 2 or 3 times a year. But they still complain in the forum for the game that the discount is bigger in some country or another.

The balance though, to me, is that Steam is cheaper over the long run, when I total up games I either pre-order or buy on day 1 at full price because I'm hyped for them (or Valve write them) and the games I buy in the sales somewhere along the line. I think I pay less than if I bought things retail. Because the sales are such good value.

Plus, I think the profits from retail's preferred way of selling cheaper games - "preowned" hurts the industry, whereas Valve spend some %age of the money they make from steam to write games and usually good ones.

With my previous post I was just stating I would love to be able to get at least a good exchange rate and then get charged whatever taxes and the charges are for that item.

This is actually down to your bank, CC company or paypal.

polecya

01-09-2012, 06:18 PM

Wow rotndude laying down the forum-law, he was being reasonable for being in the quandary he was in. This 1 euro = 1 usd doesn't affect me and quite frankly I don't care too much about the issue but as somewhat of an impartial viewpoint. Currency exchange rate fraud can be quite profitable as seen with the Steam store and despite the current geopolitical climate about this issue, not much has been done. Has the EU due process failed or has Steam and their respective publishers become too big too fail, so to speak, in an industry dominated by consumers consisting of preteens and heavy reliance on corporate sponsorships?

crunchyfrog555

01-09-2012, 06:53 PM

montyburns1983

01-09-2012, 11:11 PM

OK, so tell me how to play, eg. Civilization V without Steam installed? There are many games that require Steam to play so next time think about it before you say something stupid...

and this is where they got you by the balls.

pisses me off.

Sjeng

01-10-2012, 03:38 AM

Be a savvy gamer and look for deals on other digital download stores .
or keep track of retail prizes from local or online stores. Steam is always more expensive when a game is brand new. Retail is expensive too in the first weeks. But then some stores have discounts, and games get older and cheaper. There's sites for that (for example: NL and BE: www.budgetgaming.nl )
If steam proves to be cheaper than that, I buy from them. If the price is equal, I prefer an actual tangible copy in a box.
1€ = 1$ is not steams fault. it's just the market. They could have more/earlier discounts though, just like most retailers.

tzahranul

01-16-2012, 06:26 AM

Actually, it's not a lie.

Valve CANNOT set the prices as they have no legal right of ownership of the products.

If Valve DID set the prices that would mean they DID have ownership rights, and if that were so, how can they possibly claim a percentage from every sale, if they already have ownership?

Think about it like this: Valve makes an offer( steam cloud , store page ,digital download ,anticheat , forums , achievements and other stuff that would achieve publicity over a product) to the license owners (as far as the delivery platform offer goes) but then they get the right to sell the licensing over that product at whatever they think is fit(as long as it covers the initial cost I guess). It's something like: I buy cd-keys from Xgaming company in bulk. I get the right to resell these cd-keys at whatever price range I think it is fit since I am only a reseller (distributor) of the right to use a product.It could be said that Steam is a third party company in the subscriber agreement between you (the user) and Gamingcompanynamehere(the producer).
Also , about VAT ;it's often something that gets applied by your bank and your local laws regarding currency. The most probable VAT a Steam customer would pay would be the VAT on the cd-key at the price it has been sold by the producer (under the local tax laws as every company is a registered tax contributor).
A funny example is that I suddenly realized I pay a correct price when I use PaySafe cards. Its a method where you insert a specific amount of your local currency ( for example in my country , Romania , 4,3 Lei - 1 euro) and you get a code. The idea is that you can only get fixed amounts like 10 euros(dividable by 5) but it's worth it. I bought games for the exact price shown on steam (whether it was 5 euros or 10 euros) it would be the same with the value I payed PaySafe for. I realized that thing after checking my card statement where after some simple math I got a VAT applied over the VAT included in the payment! That still doesn't change 1 euro being the same with 1 dollar to Steam.

horneju

01-16-2012, 07:24 AM

You guys don't have to use steam.

what kind of stupid statement is that? to play ALOT OF GAMES you need steam nowadays... counter strike, tf2, total war, call of duty.

Mimonome

01-16-2012, 07:28 AM

Most things cost more in Europe than the US. Food, clothes, petrol, taxes, etc. That is regional pricing. Deal with it.

NoBridges

01-16-2012, 07:31 AM

Most things cost more in Europe than the US. Food, clothes, petrol, taxes, etc. That is regional pricing. Deal with it.

I was wondering when one of you came by. That's one down for today.

wildfire678

01-16-2012, 07:31 AM

Also , about VAT ;it's often something that gets applied by your bank and your local laws regarding currency. The most probable VAT a Steam customer would pay would be the VAT on the cd-key at the price it has been sold by the producer (under the local tax laws as every company is a registered tax contributor).

I don't know about Romania but here in the UK VAT is applied to the market price (ie what the consumer pays) not the manufacturers recommended price. I would have thought this was global for any states that have VAT/Sales Tax.

The rest of your post rambles on a bit and my apologies but I can't be bothered deciphering it.

Krasnur

01-16-2012, 09:51 AM

it's pretty epic that this thread still exists, although its creator was smashed by the banhammer a long time ago

WNxFusionGamerX

01-16-2012, 11:19 AM

Talk about epic stupidity, is it just me or did Valve RE-HIRE the money company that processes all the transactions on Steam?

I saw an article saying they were granted a contract extension but get this:

This is the very same company that CAUSED the 1$=1 Euro issue in the 1st place!!! Either that or somebody is using the stupidest money clauses/policies in human history!

This is an almighty mistake by Valve and will do nothing but drive customers to move away from Steam and find viable alternatives!

This can already be seen from daily users online, no longer is it 5 million online concurrently, it has now dropped to 4.2 million. Yes some of them were dupe accounts from Steam trading based on the xmas sale/coupons/coal, but not all of them....think about it.

Thanks to SOPA/PIPA for delaying focus on this issue even longer! Don't expect currency resolvement for 2012! Will be 2013 at the earliest!

mojoes

01-16-2012, 01:59 PM

it's pretty epic that this thread still exists, although its creator was smashed by the banhammer a long time ago

True, funny thing on this forum. I often read sensible, level headed or just plain helpful posts on this forum; then glance to the left to see who wrote it, and their name's in red... :confused:

eroeru

01-16-2012, 07:57 PM

This, and the fact that Skyrim and many other games are not allowed in many European coutries, is what makes Steam much less than a global distributer.

Steam should not allow these things to happen is what I'm thinking about...

tzahranul

01-17-2012, 05:20 AM

I don't know about Romania but here in the UK VAT is applied to the market price (ie what the consumer pays) not the manufacturers recommended price. I would have thought this was global for any states that have VAT/Sales Tax.

Lets say you buy a game From CAPCOM. CAPCOM's financial headquarters are not in the UK so you will have the VAT included at the sale between CAPCOM and STEAM and the VAT on the purchase you make between STEAM and you , in your own country. And since VALVE is an internet based delivery company , and in concordance with the NetNeutrality pact , Steam gets to obide any VAT local laws. After all , that still doesn't make 1 euro equal to 1 dollar!

NoBridges

01-17-2012, 06:26 AM

Skyrim

Steam: 50€
Retail: 37€

Mugros

01-17-2012, 08:52 AM

Lets say you buy a game From CAPCOM. CAPCOM's financial headquarters are not in the UK so you will have the VAT included at the sale between CAPCOM and STEAM and the VAT on the purchase you make between STEAM and you , in your own country. And since VALVE is an internet based delivery company , and in concordance with the NetNeutrality pact , Steam gets to obide any VAT local laws. After all , that still doesn't make 1 euro equal to 1 dollar!
Or just let'S say you have no clue about the difference of B2B and B2C.

epsylon_Z1

01-17-2012, 09:44 AM

Skyrim

Steam: 50€
Retail: 37€Stem version : It's not available in here ( Hungary ) , same for RAGE .

eroeru

01-18-2012, 07:17 AM

Actually, this difference in currency also promotes Paypal for games trading, and hence multiplies the possibility of scammed users.

I'll not buy a game for 30€ that another user wants - I'd give him 25€ on Paypal - that's 32 dollars - so that both profit.

But my personal experience says this is not at all easy, and will definitely get you scammed one day... leaving the customers unhappy (enraged, really), and will otherwise NOT promote buying games on Steam for yourself.

noobswantobanme

01-30-2012, 12:36 AM

I can have games delievered to my very door for 40% cheaper than if I buy from Steam. The reason for the high prices is because publishers want to adjust because they had to scale the less valuable currencies of the world so that they cost would match what the Americans were paying. Well America are broke as ♥♥♥♥ now, so they're technically getting more money per Steam sale from UK and Australia than what they get from American customers.

So I take it that publishers aren't going to equalize the prices to American prices any time soon? Like I said, I can still buy games without getting ♥♥♥♥ed over, but that can be inconvenient if the game doesn't have steamworks...

graspee

01-30-2012, 12:41 AM

If you want to pay the cheapest price, buy from the cheapest place. If it's not a steamworks game and you want to have it on steam, pay the steam price.

You are free to choose, so stop moaning.

edit: From your low post count and your name I'm guessing you were banned once and this is a new account, so your days are probably numbered anyway.

noobswantobanme

01-30-2012, 12:51 AM

Ruptur3

01-30-2012, 12:55 AM

I just can't get over the fact that it's so much cheaper to import than buy local. It took me years, to discover this, and until that discovery, I've bought dozen of new releases, and probably been overcharged by thousands of dollars.

You answered your own question.

Steam's excuse?

Steam doesn't have an excuse.

Publishers set the price.

noobswantobanme

01-30-2012, 01:05 AM

Steam had 5,000,000 concurrent users. I think that means that they can afford to pull some strings and stand up for the little people, you know?

Parlock

01-30-2012, 01:12 AM

Valve is a company, they don't have to stand up for the little people.
Valve is also a privately owned company, they don't have to answer to anyone and are not required to do anything that isn't law.

Ruptur3

01-30-2012, 01:13 AM

Steam had 5,000,000 concurrent users. I think that means that they can afford to pull some strings and stand up for the little people, you know?

Nope.avi.

Publisher's set the price.

If Valve set a game like Modern Warfare 3 for 10 dollars,the publisher would complain about it and it would get removed off steam.

Tera_GX

01-30-2012, 01:16 AM

Stand up for the little people? It is because of Steam that I can buy games at all. I'm very poor, but becuase of Steam's constant sales, and that Indie games have less greedy price, there are still games that I can afford to buy.

If a major publisher prices a game beyond what I can afford with no way to reassure me I'll get my money's worth, then that's that. Something out of my buying range is something out of my buying range. The consumers have the control over a major company's well being, so if you feel a company is being unjust, reject them. It takes a very long time for it to have an impact, but it is a fact that indie developers are profiting off me far more than major publishers are.

brabee

01-30-2012, 01:23 AM

Why would they need an excuse? Its simply matter of supply and demand. Nobody forces you to buy from Steam.

Zyinxz

01-30-2012, 01:25 AM

Valve is a company, they don't have to stand up for the little people.
Valve is also a privately owned company, they don't have to answer to anyone and are not required to do anything that isn't law.

Tell me that when there's a big boycott happening (theoretically speaking that is)

Karait

01-30-2012, 01:26 AM

Personally I think the prices are the way they are because it's the most profitable set-up. Just think, publisher goes on to sell retail copies at lower price and Steam version at higher price. They get their usual profit from their usual sales, and a premium profit from "people who want to have all games in one place (Steam) and are willing to pay premium for it".

The only hole in my theory is why exactly Americans are not treated the same way. Steam release prices are pretty much the same as Amazon release prices. I'd say, either they consider Americans more aware customers (less likely) or my theory is outright wrong (most likely!).

Naruzuru

01-30-2012, 01:27 AM

Overcharge? The base price is pretty much the same for games across most digital distributors. The only difference comes from sales.

If you can get physical imports cheaper than digital services, then good for you, go buy imports.

DeductiveReason

01-30-2012, 01:34 AM

I have never paid full price for a game on Steam. With few exceptions I buy all of my games at 75% off. If you don't wait for a sale then that's your own fault. I, having kept a detailed record of all of my Steam transactions, have actually received a free game for every time that I have made a purchase on Steam. Sometimes it's from a promotion, sometimes it's via TF2 items.

§W-

01-30-2012, 01:39 AM

If your currency is strong import. That is the value of having a strong currency. Steam doesn't do "imports" (that is because of regional pricing).

crunchyfrog555

01-30-2012, 01:52 AM

OP, you have to appreciate a couple of things, namely how sales work.

With a physical copy, the retailer buys a certain amount in bulk/wholesale. Once paid for, they own them legally in entirety, and are free to do with them as they wish (within reason, of course). So, if they want to charge stupidly low prices, or promote them as loss-leaders, that's entirely up to them.

With digital distribution - such as Steam - it's rather different. Valve do NOT buy the games, so have no legal ownership over them (except their own titles, naturally). They cannot charge what they like,as only the developer can set the price - contrary to what some of the people on this forum think.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this making prices high, but I hope you can understand the situation a little better now.

Personally, I have the time and inclination (and experience) to shop around a lot. I'll buy it wherever I can get it cheap, and I don't mind waiting years for that opportunity to arise. Each to their own, though.

DefauIt

01-30-2012, 01:54 AM

You answered your own question.

Steam's excuse?

Steam doesn't have an excuse.

Publishers set the price.

Actually they DO have an excuse, the excuse is that they're a company that wants to make as much profit as possible.

Don't give any of us this publisher BS which is really just half truth, valve has a SIGNIFICANT influence on the price, but lets see here, why would they price it so they make less profit?

THEY WOULDN'T

Valve phanboyz; your ignorance is showing

crunchyfrog555

01-30-2012, 02:02 AM

Actually they DO have an excuse, the excuse is that they're a company that wants to make as much profit as possible.

Don't give any of us this publisher BS which is really just half truth, valve has a SIGNIFICANT influence on the price, but lets see here, why would they price it so they make less profit?

THEY WOULDN'T

Valve phanboyz; your ignorance is showing

That's absolute rubbish. I do wish people would stop regurgitating this nonsense.

Read my previous post.

Valve CANNOT set the prices, as they have no legal ownership of the products in question; they do NOT buy them as they only sell on their behalf. That is quite straightforward, legally, I assure you.

I believe some people get this twisted because they mistake that email floating around from new developers that they can SUGGEST a price - that's a basic marketing exercise that any company will perform for a first time customer; I've done it myself in fruit sales, and furniture sales.

However, they cannot also say (as some have also suggested) "charge this price or you don't have a contract" because that's complete nonsense. Contracts are agreed LONG before pricing for the finished product ever comes up. Also, if they pulled this after the contract was agreed, that would make it an unfair agreement, and they would be within their rights as developers to take legal recourse against them.

In other words, sorry but you are quite wrong. Valve DO NOT and CANNOT set the prices for others' games.

By the way, please don't assume this is a "fanboy" speaking just because I'm disagreeing with you - I'm far from a fanboy of any company, console, product or service. I am merely stating how it is.

noobswantobanme

01-30-2012, 02:05 AM

habeebit

01-30-2012, 02:06 AM

I knew this would be another Australian crying thread before i opened it. Your minimum wage is 15 dollars an hour....learn some economics.

crunchyfrog555

01-30-2012, 02:08 AM

I never said it was Steams fault, or anyones. Prices were lower, years ago, until one day Activision set a high price for the modern warfare series, it of course was a huge success, and that set a new standard for publishers. So while we're on the subject of pointing the finger of blame, I blame Activision, not Steam...

I certainly never said you did. I did clearly post my response to help you understand why it is so.

Much as I dislike them as a company, you can't blame Activision. They were by far not the first to use large price points (such as $60). Nintendo SNES games were often more than this RRP for major titles.

Even back in their day, Atari VCS, ColecoVision and other titles from 1982 were £30 each. That's the same price as games were in the 90's/early 2000's, despite inflation.

noobswantobanme

01-30-2012, 02:10 AM

crunchyfrog555

01-30-2012, 02:13 AM

Why would they consider minimum wage gamers when talking price? Would it not make more sense to set the baseline for the average income earners rather than the ones earning minimum?

Edit: yes, I understand. Thanks.

It would be foolish to base prices on factors such as this. It takes far, far more to establish a market price than a few factors such as average wage, cost of living, etc.

The biggest factor, however, is this: they will charge the maximum they can get away with, until it impacts sales. Maximum profit.

s1234567890m

01-30-2012, 02:33 AM

The question should be why do Americans get undercharged?

Tito Shivan

01-30-2012, 02:36 AM

ChrisW

01-30-2012, 02:57 AM

It is very simple. Retail publishers will not agree to distribute their games unless they agree to set digital prices high for a certain period of time. This allows retail to sell lots of copies of the game while forcing few sales on digital sites.

And no, higher prices does not mean higher profits. Higher prices means fewer sales as people will just purchase retail copies for a lower price, thus lower profits for digital distributors. If it were up to Valve, they would undercut retail prices and rake in insane amounts of money.

maxtorthelord

01-30-2012, 02:58 AM

600 pages and 1.5 million views later and still nothing changed. (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770231) And it will never be. Publishers want higher profits and so set bigger prices. And Valve gets a bigger slice with the higher prices.

Explorerbc

01-30-2012, 03:08 AM

I only use steam for -75% sales. Otherwise it doesn't have good prices at all. Deus Ex is 50 euros in Europe but 25 dollars in US. So I got a steam key for 15 euros from getgames. It also happens with other services. Battlefield 3 was 50 euros on origin as well but got it retail with expansion included for 35 euros on release day.

NoBridges

01-30-2012, 03:32 AM

Because they can. Simple as that. I personally don't buy new games from steam, I'm not a moron.

KingNoob

01-30-2012, 03:43 AM

Just buy physical copies of games if steam is too expensive. Physical copies are better in every single way.

Muraz

01-30-2012, 03:50 AM

I read this as "chagrin on games".

What's wrong with me?

(Oh, and the solution is ... only buy things when they're on sale. Cheaper.)

RedYellowBlueCR

01-30-2012, 03:59 AM

Another entitlement thread...

DefauIt

01-30-2012, 04:04 AM

That's absolute rubbish. I do wish people would stop regurgitating this nonsense.

Read my previous post.

Valve CANNOT set the prices, as they have no legal ownership of the products in question; they do NOT buy them as they only sell on their behalf. That is quite straightforward, legally, I assure you.

I believe some people get this twisted because they mistake that email floating around from new developers that they can SUGGEST a price - that's a basic marketing exercise that any company will perform for a first time customer; I've done it myself in fruit sales, and furniture sales.

However, they cannot also say (as some have also suggested) "charge this price or you don't have a contract" because that's complete nonsense. Contracts are agreed LONG before pricing for the finished product ever comes up. Also, if they pulled this after the contract was agreed, that would make it an unfair agreement, and they would be within their rights as developers to take legal recourse against them.

In other words, sorry but you are quite wrong. Valve DO NOT and CANNOT set the prices for others' games.

By the way, please don't assume this is a "Hammer Legion Member" speaking just because I'm disagreeing with you - I'm far from a Hammer Legion Member of any company, console, product or service. I am merely stating how it is.

Sorry for trolling.

Bear809

01-30-2012, 04:31 AM

Buy from the cheapest places you can find, retail if it is a must. 60 can be taken down to 20 if your lucky. U MAD MONEY HUNGRY DEVS WHO RELEASE THE SAME GAMES EVERY YEAR? (Looking at you CoD and BF)

noobswantobanme

01-30-2012, 04:34 AM

I can and do buy games on sale, and yet the original cost of the game that is been discounted to the world remains, so it doesn't change the fact that we get the shortest straw.

750

01-30-2012, 04:46 AM

So who set this one http://www.steamprices.com/uk/app/620/portal-2 EA :p ?

Doesn't even make any sense that pricing

Porcupeth

01-30-2012, 05:40 AM

If people weren't so set on buying on steam and paying more (whatever happened to rational economics? gone with the birth of valve/steam fanboyism?), maybe they'd care and things would change. but people do enjoy paying more, for some odd reason. Well too bad for them, we other people will keep enjoying paying less from other sources, so i don't see why the need to complain OP

Satoru

01-30-2012, 06:22 AM

I think people seem to not understand why things work the way they do.

1) Retail stores need to dump inventory and fast. Thus it is in THEIR interests to highly discount stuff that is more than 1 month old. It takes up space, which costs money.

2) Digital stores do not have this issue. Thus the need to discount items is gone because there's little cost to have however many copies you want to sell on the table.

Note this is NOT A STEAM PROBLEM. This is simply the advantage digital distributors of all flavors have.

If you want to buy via retail that's fine no one is 'forcing' you to buy over Steam. Steam has no need to fire sale products because of age or inventory constraints, thus they do not aggressively discount prices as retailers do after the first month. It's economics plain and simple. Once you understand how the different retail markets work then it makes total sense as to some of the price disparities.

Again if you want to buy the retail copy on Amazon or whatever that's fine. There are of course lots of retail options as well as other digital download stores that sell similar products which you can take advantage of. Obviously we all do this, and when I am pricing out computer componets I of course look around and shop for the best price possible. If a retailer has a lower price they will get my business. Note Steam has some 'intangibles' which do make me 'prefer' a Steam version (auto-patching, single management interface, achievements, etc). But again this is a personal choice. If price is the driving factor for you then by all means purchase via whatever method you wish. Steam is not 'ripping you off' they are simply charging what they feel is appropriate. If Steam was really 'ripping people off' then people would simply stop using it for cheaper options. Steams dominance in the digital download space seems to fly in the face of this.

ShaggyDK

01-30-2012, 06:22 AM

serieus1

01-30-2012, 08:06 AM

Just like the people protesting at Occupy Wall Street, you should know that you control the fate of the corporations ripping you off. If you think Activision is ripping you off then quit buying their games. If you think Steam is ripping you off, then quit buying from Steam.

Corporations do not control us, they give us exactly what we ask for. If they set the price as high as they do, that's because more of us than you'd like to think are willing to pay that amount. Corporations don't do things that will have negative results, at least not purposely. Their goal is to keep you as a customer and to maximize their profits.

I don't understand why people complain about these things. #1 video games and other forms of entertainment are not necessary at all. So to complain that the price is too high is ridiculous, be lucky that you live in an industrialized country and that you have access to these luxuries rather than complain. #2 rather than complain choose to give your money to the companies that choose to respect and support you rather than take your money and run. This is why some people really appreciate certain indie companies over AAA publishers. The problem is that a game comes out, it's advertised all over the net, TV, and now even billboards and what not, and then because it has an MP part of the game, people feel they need to buy it now to be able to play prior to MP being a ghost town. If you're part of that crowd that HAS TO HAVE a game in order to take part of the short lived MP game, then that's your prerogative.

Overall, no one is ripping you off, if someone asks $1000 for a cup of coffee and you pay for it, then you are just ripping yourself off. There is no entitlement to entertainment, it is a luxury, so instead of complaining, just boycott the companies that treat you this way and move on.

TrippleD

01-30-2012, 08:08 AM

I was not over charged during the Summer or Winter Sale. ;)

Morb

01-30-2012, 09:23 AM

nonplus++

01-30-2012, 10:08 AM

I only ever buy during a sale, outside of sales the prices in the uk are a joke.

Steam can set their price and I will buy where's it's cheapest.

Satoru

01-30-2012, 10:13 AM

According to Shams Jorjani, Producer and Business Developer at Paradox, they set a recommended price and then it's up to the digital distributor to set the actual price - they can't set it lower, but they are free to set it higher.

Source: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?511900-Paradox-Complete-Pack-on-Steam&p=11919270&viewfull=1#post11919270

Just quoting. Make of it what you will.
Don't really care about the whole dispute personally, I just buy my games where they're cheaper. I'm under impression that's what the majority does.

Again discrediting the entire concept that Steam FORCES people to set pricing to whatever they want.

I'll have to bookmark that post so when the inevitable thread of "Steam forces pricing on devs" comes up this can be used to refute such baseless claims.

Shirokurules

01-30-2012, 10:15 AM

America are broke as ♥♥♥♥ now

But Valve employees aren't ;)

ChrisW

01-30-2012, 11:31 AM

MartinKhan

01-30-2012, 11:39 AM

serieus1

01-30-2012, 11:43 AM

You guys seem completely clueless. Steam does not set the price! Stop blaming them for something they are not responsible for. The publisher sets the price. Blame them. Retail is cheaper because the retail publisher sets the price on Steam. You guys are just falling for their trap. The retail publisher sets the price on Steam high so nobody will purchase games on Steam. The retail publisher sells their retail copies cheap so they can make all the money.

Clueless?

From what I understand Steam gives back a much higher percentage to the publishers of games for each unit sold than do most if not all retailers. Retail is just cheaper because of the difference between a real stock (i.e. they've already purchased it and it's taking up room in their warehouse) and digital stock (i.e. one single copy being used as the source of everyone's download on their server). When you have real stock you're allowed to drop the price just to keep inventory moving. Moving your inventory is more important than making a million bucks off of one item.

So to say that they purposely boost the sale price on Steam because they don't want to sell on Steam then that just seems more clueless than the statements made by other people that you thought were clueless.

I will not make a statement that I know for a fact that publishers or that Valve are setting the price, I have no clue. I've never seen anything official that says "publishers set prices" and I've never produced a game and put it up on Steam.

spiritofjon

01-30-2012, 11:53 AM

Something most are over looking is that the OP more than anything "seems to be" complaining not so much about pricing but regional pricing. Note the talk of imports and such. Regional pricing isn't just a debate about steam vs publisher pricing as there's more to it than that and it actually is out of the control of either party. If you want to blame someone for regional pricing blame the region you are in.

Steam isn't responsible for the place your parents chose to birth you in and neither is any game publisher. Each region has it's own rules, practices, laws, and costs associated with gaming. Some countries are extremely flexible and have low taxing structures so games there are cheaper and easier to get. That's one reason Russian games are so much cheaper than US games, but it's also the reason it's region locked.

Likewise there are places in the EU for example where you just can't sell some games at all. In other places you might be allowed to sell a game but it's not the one the publishers made instead they have to make special watered down edited copies. all of these differences makes the costs go up and down depending on where you live. The people to blame behind regional pricing isn't valve or publishers but rather your local government which neither group has any influence on.

ChrisW

01-30-2012, 11:55 AM

Stores are not selling these games for a loss. They can sell games for a much lower price because the retail publisher sells the games to them for a much lower price.

What you guys are not understanding is simple economics. Higher prices does not equal higher profits. The higher the price, the less likely people are going to purchase your product. Which makes the most profit: selling 1,000 games at $60 or 10,000 games at $30? Obviously $300,000 is greater than $60,000. Just because a price is higher does not mean you will sell the same number of copies you were selling before, which is why you can typically increase profits by reducing the price.

Stoib

01-30-2012, 02:40 PM

I knew this would be another Australian crying thread before i opened it.

I'm interested as to why all these yanks refer to these threads as "crying" threads. I can only imagine how much the forums would explode if you woke up one day and prices on the US store had almost doubled.

GetGamesGo, GreenManGaming, Amazon, Ozgameshop etc. must be loving this though, taking all of our business away from steam with their much fairer pricing ;)

Simplex

01-31-2012, 02:12 AM

Coming back once again to "steam sets prices" vs "publisher/dev sets the prices" debate - some time ago I asked a dev from 11bit studios (makers of Anomaly Warzone Earth) why their game uses the 1EUR=1USD scam and he EXPLICITLY replied that Steam forced it: http://polygamia.pl/Polygamia/1,108240,9402537,Anomaly__The_Warzone_Earth___dobr a__porzadna_polska.html

It's in the comments below the article, and in Polish, the phrase "to decyzja Steama" means "it's Steam's decision". Sorry it's not in English, but 11bit studios is a Polish company, so I asked them in Polish and got a response in Polish.

I would like all those who claim "steam does not set the prices" to convince me that the dev from 11bit was lying through his teeth, or that was a fake account that the reply came from.

s1234567890m

01-31-2012, 02:34 AM

I cant get a decent translator to verify it.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?569096-CK2-Price&p=13056023&viewfull=1#post13056023

my counter point...

DeductiveReason

01-31-2012, 12:11 PM

the 1EUR=1USD scam

It's not a scam. Currency exchange rates fluctuate constantly. Rather than changing all of their prices on a daily or weekly basis they've chosen the easiest, most reliable course of action. You don't like it because you're not getting as good a value as some others are. That's perfectly understandable.

No one that isn't sharing in your circumstances cares. No amount of complaining on this forum or any other is going to accomplish anything, ever. If you don't like Steam's pricing then don't purchase games from Steam. Get other, like minded individuals to stop purchasing games from Steam as well. If there comes a point where Steam's profits in Europe drop to unacceptable levels they might do something about it.