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View Full Version : Looks like $1 = €1 after all


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netlork
12-23-2008, 12:14 PM
Hi, I have come back after a ban to greet and follow this thread (which never stops).
Ah, yes, prices are still quite incorrect.

Oh, and i love steam? or loved? or not?

Please, correct them, and apply the correct VAT for each country in europe.

Then and only then after much ponder, it is possible to buy something again. Or maybe not?

AwM
12-23-2008, 12:20 PM
WTF???!!
9,99 EUR - original price
14,28 USD - final price
I received it from my bank day after transaction (I bought Gmod).
normally I paid 12.19$ for the 10$ game (VAT). I have to agree with you guys, that's just robbery!

And I dont know why "place of transaction" is:
STEAMGAMES.COM
LONDON, GB
I'm from Poland, what London and GB has to my transaction?

TurboWolf
12-23-2008, 12:21 PM
I think he means the following procedure for an European to buy a game for x USD
How long will it take till you can't "gift" to an account located in another country anymore?
Couldn't have said better.

Killerwatt
12-23-2008, 12:27 PM
Whoa! Looks like European customers are no longer charged as $1 = 1€!

Actually it got far worse. Several titles' price have gone up in Euro. Have a look at e.g. Tomb Raider: Underworld. You can purchase it on Steam in the US for $39.99, or for 49.99€ in Europe. See for yourselves:
Tomb Raider: Underworld USD page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/8140/?cc=us)
Tomb Raider: Underworld EUR page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/8140/?cc=hu)
This is also true for several other titles. Take a look at the entire EA catalog in Dollars (http://store.steampowered.com/publisher/Electronic%20Arts/?cc=us) and Euros (http://store.steampowered.com/publisher/Electronic%20Arts/?cc=hu). (BTW Tomb Raider is not an EA game, before somebody claims that it is only due to EA and their policy.)
Now what is the meaning of THIS action?

Bloodzone
12-23-2008, 12:35 PM
Games I bought with STEAM:
- HL2
- Prey
- Red Orchestra
- TF2
- GTA San Andreas
- HL2: episode 1

Games I wanted to buy from STEAM before this bull♥♥♥♥:
- Left4Dead
- S.T.A.L.K.E.R

Too bad valve,no money for you from me any more

aob
12-23-2008, 12:36 PM
Whoa! Looks like European customers are no longer charged as $1 = 1€!

Actually it got far worse. Several titles' price have gone up in Euro. Have a look at e.g. Tomb Raider: Underworld. You can purchase it on Steam in the US for $39.99, or for 49.99€ in Europe. See for yourselves:
Tomb Raider: Underworld USD page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/8140/?cc=us)
Tomb Raider: Underworld EUR page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/8140/?cc=hu)
This is also true for several other titles. Take a look at the entire EA catalog in Dollars (http://store.steampowered.com/publisher/Electronic%20Arts/?cc=us) and Euros (http://store.steampowered.com/publisher/Electronic%20Arts/?cc=hu). (BTW Tomb Raider is not an EA game, before somebody claims that it is only due to EA and their policy.)
Now what is the meaning of THIS action?

I'm guessing this was part of EA's European division's agreement on making EA games available to Europe.

EA don't want EU customers buying their games at reasonable/fair prices, why that's not good for profits!

Zeitgeist
12-23-2008, 12:45 PM
I'm guessing this was part of EA's European division's agreement on making EA games available to Europe.

EA don't want EU customers buying their games at reasonable/fair prices, why that's not good for profits!

Why on earth would EA be interested in

> Title: Tomb Raider: Underworld
> Developer: Crystal Dynamics Inc.
> Publisher: Eidos Interactive

making more profits from europeans? Makes no sense, don't you think? It was Valves and Valves decision only. They are to blame, noone else...

Karma_Police
12-23-2008, 01:00 PM
Why on earth would EA be interested in

> Title: Tomb Raider: Underworld
> Developer: Crystal Dynamics Inc.
> Publisher: Eidos Interactive

making more profits from europeans? Makes no sense, don't you think? It was Valves and Valves decision only. They are to blame, noone else...

The theory is, in order for EA Europe to accept selling their games on steam, they would have to be available in €, and be +- the same prices as in the EA Store.

Now, if you have overpriced games beside reasonable priced games, those overpriced ones will stand out for the worst. Just look at CoD4. Everyone complained because of the price, specially compared to other games. And that is only one game. Imagine a lot of them, and all from the same company. They have enough bad PR from DRM as it is.

So what's the option? lower EA's game prices? No way, let's just raise the other prices.


Of course, this is all speculation on our part, since we don't have an answer from Valve, and those (crazy?) theories arise because of that.

Edit: Just to make it clear, I don't really believe this particular theory, although I can see how people get to that conclusion with the coincidental arrival of EA at the same time Steam changes to overpriced €.

Filias
12-23-2008, 01:05 PM
Interesting. Mass Effect 30$ in US and 50€ in Europe :D:D

Arnstone88
12-23-2008, 01:09 PM
It's probably like; for Steam to have EA games, they would have to make sure that every other game also had unreasonably high prices, so people wouldn't buy any other games instead of EA games based on price=P=P

...Nah, this sucks. And why haven't they fixed it, or released an official statement regarding this yet!?
They will have to do hard work to make their european customers trust them again, and it's only gonna get harder the longer it takes before anything get done.

oiccrene
12-23-2008, 01:28 PM
Still no official response... I am starting to lose my patience... with this pace, I will NEVER EVER BUY anything off the ST€AL EVER AGAIN, no matter the price!

OneOneOne
12-23-2008, 01:30 PM
Anyone in the UK or Ireland interested in Far Cry 2 or Fallout 3 should go to Amazon.co.uk.

Far Cry 2 is currently an incredible £13, and Fallout 3 is £18.

Steam's price for Far Cry 2 is currently £35, Euro prices notwithstanding.

I've personally never found Steam to be either competitive nor cheap in terms of pricing, so I always presumed people used it for the convenience of not needing the disk to hand (again, something that's never bothered me in the slightest). Steam's certainly never been good value for money.

FidelCastrol
12-23-2008, 01:32 PM
Still no official response... I am starting to lose my patience... with this pace, I will NEVER EVER BUY anything off the ST€AL EVER AGAIN, no matter the price!

Wanted to buy Defense Grid for quite a while. I guess it will have to wait until

1/ The price is corrected
2/ I can buy it from somewhere else.

Point #2 will be prefered, even if price is lowered.

niMic
12-23-2008, 01:51 PM
This is making me sad, actually. I guess I was living in a dream world where Valve were one of the few good guys left out there, then they pull a stunt like this. I've spent a lot of money on games on Steam, but I can guarantee that I'll never buy another game on Steam if this stays the same. Not even if it's a seemingly good deal. I'm not going to reward them for ripping me off. Europe is the biggest PC gaming market now, and they're basically pissing on us.

*VeLeRoN*
12-23-2008, 01:51 PM
Wanted to buy Defense Grid for quite a while. I guess it will have to wait until

1/ The price is corrected
2/ I can buy it from somewhere else.

Point #2 will be prefered, even if price is lowered.

Steam is not the only place where you can buy DG, yet steam, even with this 1=/=1 thingy is still the best.

sjeje
12-23-2008, 02:01 PM
I would like to know how much they have already loose with all this mess... especially before christmas :D They're totally dumb or what ? They know europeans are not stupid ? :confused:
I'm pretty sure it's gonna be back to normal, it's so big I can't believe it stays like that...

Killerwatt
12-23-2008, 02:25 PM
I think I'm starting to understand it. (Yes, conspiracy mode on.) Still, some pieces from the whole picture are missing, but it looks like that EA - one of the biggest publishers - demanded Valve that they are contracting with them only if Steam can make different prices for the EU and US customers. Probably this is why European currency system was developed in such a hurry, that even prices weren't balanced between € and $, and EA games arrived one or two days after after this system was officially deployed. And since there's no possibility to automatically convert between EA's mysterious €/$ pricing, both currencies must have been separately defined - currently all € prices set as default to the $ counterparts. My opinion is that Valve really wanted to contract with EA, even if it required their Steam system to be compromised. They also understood that this will upset their customers in Europe. But making an official statement about it during these times is really not a wise idea - that's why they haven't done so. Customers won't forgive them, so better stay quiet. So their next step now is to contact all publishers/developers who provide games on Steam to negotiate an Euro price too for their games aside from the already negotiated Dollar prices. Until then the best Valve can offer is to not count VAT on the already overpriced games due to their default Euro price. Of course this is far from the best consolation, but still not as bad as counting additional VAT on the already unnecessary high prices.

Looks like Eidos was in fact a real (khm) "sun of a beach" to follow EA's demand and increase the € price for some of their titles even more. But there's the proof that reasonable negotiation also goes on, that e.g. Savage 2's € price has been reduced to be a real equal to its $ price. (Savage 2 is $9,99 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/13700/?cc=us), or 6,99€ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/13700/?cc=hu) - this is how it should work for all titles.)
Therefore Mike D.'s statement is also true saying that they are aware of the problem and fixing it soon. If everything above is true, then during January and February all Euro prices will fall back to their normal value, as Euro price negotiations with the publishers proceed.

What I really don't understand here that doing such a step especially before Christmas highly discourage customers from Steam, they feel betrayed, as this happens now. Well Valve probably measured that EA was still a great deal at the cost of customer loss, therefore they chose to burden their customers briefly with bad prices (to win EA), then likely will repay them later. The latter one is what I suspect will happen next month. Not with money of course (but who knows, even a difference refund is possible), but more likely with heavy discounts. So the plan for Valve is/was/will be:
1. beg for EA to contract, even sacrifice customers,
2. beg for customers to come back / recruit new customers.
Well, we shall see.

aob
12-23-2008, 02:41 PM
Text

^
This

I agree, the cynic in me says the only way for valve to get EA on board was to have increased regional pricing for Europe :o

</conspiracy theory>

Really EA's euro prices compared to US prices are shocking, the prices now "aren't easier too understand" as valve stated it's "goal" was, now it's harder for your average joe to see they're getting ****ed compared to the USD.

mouton
12-23-2008, 02:49 PM
^
This

I agree, the cynic in me says the only way for valve to get EA on board was to have increased regional pricing for Europe :o

Still, it doesn't make sense. What's the point of getting EA on board when their games are almost twice the retail price? In Poland, Mass Effect now costs 28 euro in retail and 50 euro on steam. The only way someone could buy it would be by mistake.

Again, what bugs me in this situation is not that the prices are high - i can buy games elsewhere - but that this move is plainly suicidal not only in terms of sales but also customer confidence and loyalty.

Vir
12-23-2008, 02:57 PM
I don't mind paying a little more for using Steam.. but some of these prices are a bit excessive..

Imho.

Alegis
12-23-2008, 03:04 PM
Looks like Eidos was in fact a real (khm) "sun of a beach" to increase the € price for some of their titles even more.
Are you serious? Unbelievable.

berserking god
12-23-2008, 03:05 PM
We do have VAT on physical products (AFAIK this includes games if retail). Or moms, as it is called.
We don't on downloads though. Which is why Steam can't up the prices and call it "VAT".
.. Yes, I said we don't have VAT on products that AREN'T shipped physically. So you just repeated what I said. :p

Bidermaier
12-23-2008, 03:13 PM
No: It's called the market: You Euro people have proven to the companies that your willing to pay for a baseball bat up your rear, so you get it. If you all stopped PAYING so much, then it wouldn't be WORTH so much.

I have more than 90 games in my steam account, not too bad for becoming a PC gamer just a year ago.

Unshaved
12-23-2008, 03:20 PM
Whoa! Looks like European customers are no longer charged as $1 = 1€!

Actually it got far worse. Several titles' price have gone up in Euro. Have a look at e.g. Tomb Raider: Underworld. You can purchase it on Steam in the US for $39.99, or for 49.99€ in Europe. See for yourselves:
Tomb Raider: Underworld USD page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/8140/?cc=us)
Tomb Raider: Underworld EUR page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/8140/?cc=hu)
This is also true for several other titles. Take a look at the entire EA catalog in Dollars (http://store.steampowered.com/publisher/Electronic%20Arts/?cc=us) and Euros (http://store.steampowered.com/publisher/Electronic%20Arts/?cc=hu). (BTW Tomb Raider is not an EA game, before somebody claims that it is only due to EA and their policy.)
Now what is the meaning of THIS action?

WTF??? how are they going to explain those price raises? "we're charging american VAT and the VAT of every european country for one product, so you can easily understand the price instead of getting a surpise at the end of the checkout of $3 more ontop of the 40$ you already spent."

Lasse69
12-23-2008, 03:23 PM
Today I bought 4 games for my kids in a retail shop(Christmas presents), simply because they now, are a lot cheaper retail, than through Steam.

Both my kids have Steam accounts, and if they had kept the old system, or had an sensible € exchange rate, I would have bought the games here.

Have I bought my last game through steam, ever?

Another thing that I don`t understand.
Hope anyone can explain.

Why are Steam charging VAT?
When I import "physical" items, then I have to pay VAT to get the goods through customs, not the company I bought from.

So if Steam sold physical games, and shipped them to me, they would deduct VAT when I purchased the game, and then I had to pay VAT to Norwegian customs all over, to get the game imported.

This sounds strange, or has I misunderstood something here?

I am from Norway, so please excuse my spelling errors.

Karma_Police
12-23-2008, 03:52 PM
<snip />
What I really don't understand here that doing such a step especially before Christmas highly discourage customers from Steam, they feel betrayed, as this happens now. Well Valve probably measured that EA was still a great deal at the cost of customer loss, therefore they chose to burden their customers briefly with bad prices (to win EA), then likely will repay them later. The latter one is what I suspect will happen next month. Not with money of course (but who knows, even a difference refund is possible), but more likely with heavy discounts. So the plan for Valve is/was/will be:
1. beg for EA to contract, even sacrifice customers,
2. beg for customers to come back / recruit new customers.
Well, we shall see.

I don't know. When dealing with customers, I always heard that it's always cheaper to keep a customer than to get a new one. In the case of steam it's even harder since they are online, and bad reputation spreads like wildfire nowadays.

So, what happened here? Did they underestimate how pissed we would be? Did they think they would get enough new customers with EA on board to outweigh the lost ones?

I don't think heavy discounts would work. Where would they do this? Only in Europe? Do they want a new >100 page thread with the rest of the world complaining? The whole world? Then we still wouldn't have fair prices for the whole world.

Lilac1
12-23-2008, 03:55 PM
Merry christmas:) My new-years resolution is that I shall not buy any games from steam before we get the same pricing as the UK does.

chokke
12-23-2008, 04:01 PM
I don't know. When dealing with customers, I always heard that it's always cheaper to keep a customer than to get a new one. In the case of steam it's even harder since they are online, and bad reputation spreads like wildfire nowadays.

So, what happened here? Did they underestimate how pissed we would be? Did they think they would get enough new customers with EA on board to outweigh the lost ones?

I don't think heavy discounts would work. Where would they do this? Only in Europe? Do they want a new >100 page thread with the rest of the world complaining? The whole world? Then we still wouldn't have fair prices for the whole world.

I Actually think they might be able to make it. EA got some support, and some hate. Launching games like Dead Space and Mirrors Edge was great, it gave the heads up for people and they figured that EA launches games with SecuROM and therefor not willing to buy them. Now they find out EA is launching games through steam without SecuROM, and therefor giving more customers.
I know I will buy Dead Space and a few other EA games as soon as the dollar/euro-system is fixed, just because I want to support the gaming industry and play games without discs, SecuROM and other whatnot (Just hope I get away from Windows Live or Ubisofts horrible multiplayersystem, Valve's system is perfect and bound to steamaccount).

And I don't think theyr reputation has fallen that much. At first was like "what the hell, Valve sucks", but now it seems to be more "ok, they will fix it. I don't like to wait, but I have to, and will.". According to the attitude of some people here, Steam would be screwed three or four years ago with theyr fantastic friendsystem and few games.

Killerwatt
12-23-2008, 04:01 PM
When I import "physical" items, then I have to pay VAT to get the goods through customs, not the company I bought from.(...)This sounds strange, or has I misunderstood something here?
Well, actually you did. VAT and customs are two different form of taxes, and have nothing to do to each other. In a nutshell VAT goes to all merchanted products regardless of their forms, whereas customs only to physical products being imported. Of course as not being physical goods, Steam games are customs free, but VAT still applies to them according to the buying country's VAT law. Yet, we saw examples of countries even in this thread where eletronic goods are not only customs, but also VAT free.

*VeLeRoN*
12-23-2008, 04:09 PM
And I don't think theyr reputation has fallen that much. At first was like "what the hell, Valve sucks", but now it seems to be more "ok, they will fix it.
I love Valve and their games, steam is ok.

Let me ask you one thing regarding your post - what made you change your mind?

It's just that I haven't seen any updates on this and it's xmas time... so...

eV1Te
12-23-2008, 04:16 PM
I'm hoping Valve fixes this soon and gives a good explanation, I've always thoughts Valve was the best in the business both when coming to games and the Steam system...

But this makes me think twice before recomending Valve/Steam to someone again...

Join this group if you haven't already.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/1e1us

chokke
12-23-2008, 04:23 PM
I love Valve and their games, steam is ok.

Let me ask you one thing regarding to your post - what made you change your mind?

I ment the general attitude was "what the hell" blabla.
I was waiting, and the thing that dissepointed me was the lack of an offisial responce from Valve (and still more or less is lacking still).
I was dissepointed at first, but thought it was just a mistake and they haven't added a transforming formula into Steam yet but as the days went by, the missing responce from Valve made me more dissepointed. But I was never upset and threatened to never buy from Steam again (I think I never said it at least).
And as the few days went past it seems to have been come to a temporary solution considering the introduction of EA (Crysis and Crysis: Warhead doesn't count :P )and a hasted solution which seems to be resolved in the next month(s).

I must add that I think Valve has not been acting as a good communicator with the customers, and I must say I think the community will feel that Valve does a little bit to much for themselfs and not listening to what the users actually want, making the community a little dissepointed and let down.


Oh god, hope my post is understandable consideirng I have no clue about how my english is for other then myself.

SbEguy
12-23-2008, 04:25 PM
Well, it seems i've bought my last steam game, as the major reason i bought on steam instead of in stores was because of the savings of paying in dollars and avoiding the ridiculous VAT in my country.

Swedman
12-23-2008, 04:30 PM
I Actually think they might be able to make it. EA got some support, and some hate. Launching games like Dead Space and Mirrors Edge was great, it gave the heads up for people and they figured that EA launches games with SecuROM and therefor not willing to buy them. Now they find out EA is launching games through steam without SecuROM, and therefor giving more customers.
I know I will buy Dead Space and a few other EA games as soon as the dollar/euro-system is fixed, just because I want to support the gaming industry and play games without discs, SecuROM and other whatnot (Just hope I get away from Windows Live or Ubisofts horrible multiplayersystem, Valve's system is perfect and bound to steamaccount).

And I don't think theyr reputation has fallen that much. At first was like "what the hell, Valve sucks", but now it seems to be more "ok, they will fix it. I don't like to wait, but I have to, and will.". According to the attitude of some people here, Steam would be screwed three or four years ago with theyr fantastic friendsystem and few games.

I am pretty sure the steam version have SecuROM as well, and all other special requirements for anti-piracy such as Games For Windows Live etc.

chokke
12-23-2008, 04:36 PM
I am pretty sure the steam version have SecuROM as well, and all other special requirements for anti-piracy such as Games For Windows Live etc.

The fact that the Spore-version you can buy through Steam (source) (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=771370) does not have SecuROM is proof enough.

And it seems like publishers go away from SecuROM (thank god) when it hits Steam. Bioshock had SecuROM early on, but it got removed.
I am unsure about Crysis and Crysis:Warhead, but I belive they still got the 3x installs before having to re-enable it or whatever, but that's up to Crytek, not EA.

Swedman
12-23-2008, 05:56 PM
The fact that GTA IV comes with SecuROM (source) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/12210/) is proof enough that some games still have third party DRM.

Crysis still have all that DRM things... (not sure if they do if you buy them over steam, I have the box)

Unshaved
12-23-2008, 06:34 PM
Well... look on the bright side.. EA did make 1 thing cheaper in the EU:

SPORE™ Creepy & Cute Parts Pack EU (http://store.steampowered.com/app/17440/?cc=nl)
SPORE™ Creepy & Cute Parts Pack US (http://store.steampowered.com/app/17440/?cc=us)

And quite significantly aswell.. the only problem. Who wants this crap? something that should've been in the game already.

wilk0r
12-23-2008, 06:35 PM
I still can't quite fathom how ridiculously stupid this is, not to mention that there is absolutely no PR damage control to speak of yet. I remember spectating the events surrounding the Bioshock launch on the T2 forums and marveling at how fast the situation snowballed. This is already the most popular thread under the general discussion tab by a vast margin, and discussion forums elsewhere are starting to catch on. Pricing behaviour like this is inexcusable and, as some have already alleged, probably illegal.

The thing that irks me most is that Steam doesn't NEED to be behave this way. They have the digital distribution market for games cornered with both indie and commercial publishers lining up to have their products listed, a considerably better approach to DRM than competitors, millions of subscribers, and an active community. To alienate an entire continent from their service by pricing themselves out of the ballpark seems illogical... in the extreme.

Rampant profiteering does not compliment you, Steam.

redavatar
12-23-2008, 10:23 PM
Well... look on the bright side.. EA did make 1 thing cheaper in the EU:

SPORE™ Creepy & Cute Parts Pack EU (http://store.steampowered.com/app/17440/?cc=nl)
SPORE™ Creepy & Cute Parts Pack US (http://store.steampowered.com/app/17440/?cc=us)

And quite significantly aswell.. the only problem. Who wants this crap? something that should've been in the game already.

Spore sold very very badly in Europe so I'm not surprised - they probably are trying to entice Europeans. Still, even 10 euros is a rip off price for that crap.

Ah well. Like I said earlier in this topic - I got over 130 games in my Steam account but I've bought my last one.

Hell, why do people think Valve is one of the "good ones"? Didn't you pay close attention to all the crap they pulled? They've lied through their teeth on any number of occasions to get Steam going. They promised low prices, they promised a stable platform, it took FIVE YEARS for Steam's friend function to finally be added, they use Counter Strike & HL2 to force people to use Steam by pulling the plug on WON, they force-uploaded Condition Zero on everyone's PCs without permission in the hope that people would buy it, etc. etc.

Come on, Valve are no saints. They just happen to make good games but they're just as nasty as EA when it comes to the business side of things. It's time people see this. Valve are in this for the money just like any other company and it's obvious that they chose money over the community or they'd have blocked any DRM on Steam. Words are cheap, Valve. Very cheap.

hahahafr
12-23-2008, 11:01 PM
The fact that GTA IV comes with SecuROM (source) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/12210/) is proof enough that some games still have third party DRM.

Crysis still have all that DRM things... (not sure if they do if you buy them over steam, I have the box)

Yes they do, even over the Steam version. You can see if a game has third-party DRM or not on the right side of the game page, e.g. Crysis does, Crysis Warhead does, and GTA4 does.
Fortunately, the Steam version of Spore seems to not have a third party DRM.

jalf
12-23-2008, 11:02 PM
Had VALVe not changed anything, L4D would have costed you about £33.80. The exchange rates were dire and something was definitely needed to remedy this. The recent changes have remedied this problem the UK had so I can't see how one can complain about it, the situation has only improved for us Brits. If you can find a better deal elsewhere though, then take it.

The reason things are so cheap on Play.com, is that there is no VAT on purchases under £18, so they lower the prices to £17.99 to make use of this further cost cut.
Well, there's no VAT in Norway either. Why isn't Steam able to match play.com then?

For that matter, why doesn't Steam do the exact same thing across Europe? Keep prices at 17.99 to avoid VAT?

We all know VAT has nothing to do with the new pricing. If it had, the price hike would be proportional to the VAT. 40% price jump when VAT is anywhere between 0 and 25% is just plain greed.

Not that there's anything wrong with a corporation being greedy, of course. It just means people will buy from their cheaper competitors, like Play.com who actually try to make good deals based on the VAT rules, or like GOG.com who promises the same price worldwide:


GOG.com games are the same price, no matter where you live
As we get close to saying "Adios!" for a few days, we just wanted to bring your attention to a new point on our About Us page. The critically acclaimed "Point 8" proclaims that we offer the "same game, same price, no matter where you're from!" With our humble Polish roots, we know how frustrating it can be to have access to products or other online services limited for geographic reasons. Or to pay more just because of unfavorable regional pricing. Well, at GOG.com we take that extra step... we go that extra mile... we climb that extra mountain... we hit the "End Turn" button just one more time to bring everyone around the world the same games catalogue at the same price. Wherever you are in the world, have a great time this holiday season (even if you don't have a holiday season) and we hope you get a lot of time to game.


And chokke: Did I miss something here? What is this solution Valve has come up with? The only response I'v seen from them is the statement that tells us that they completely missed the point, and think the problem is "a few third-party titles being priced too high".

hahahafr
12-23-2008, 11:06 PM
For that matter, why doesn't Steam do the exact same thing across Europe? Keep prices at 17.99 to avoid VAT?

Even on the 4.99$ games I have bought on Steam I always payed VAT.

FK120
12-23-2008, 11:19 PM
Seems like prices are dropping for some games. Check the price reduction thread.

Full-Life
12-23-2008, 11:43 PM
I was thinking of buying few games for the holidays, luckily i trumbled across some news about Valve ripping us off in one finnish gaming site. Sadly play.com takes some time to deliver but with these prices its like putting money on the bank. So i voted with my vallet and the vote goes to... play.com. Have a nice christmast Valve.

FidelCastrol
12-23-2008, 11:58 PM
Steam is not the only place where you can buy DG, yet steam, even with this 1=/=1 thingy is still the best.

Right now, it is. It's has been taken away from D2D has their DRM was creating problems :o

Almak
12-24-2008, 12:09 AM
I suppose it was only to be expected that the result of the recession would be some kind of a ♥♥♥♥ move but as a gamer this only affects me in a minor way (what with having to wait a couple of days for the shipment), beyond that they (Valve) are only shooting themselves in the foot here. So unless this is mended a large portion of the market will always choose retail.
Oh and guys was there any official word in response? I tried to browse this thread looking for it but it is just massive. jalf was saying something about it in his previous post but I couldn't find it. Could someone point me to where I could give it a read through, or simply give me a general gist of it?

Full-Life
12-24-2008, 12:13 AM
Btw i have joidned the 1$1€ group and filed the EU form of Valve discriminating us europeans :mad:

psyclog
12-24-2008, 12:13 AM
We got interviews like this one:
http://www.steamfriends.com/news/3635/prices-steam-euros

Nothing "official"

Btw, gotta love those many "Posts: 1" guys..

Hulahoop
12-24-2008, 12:17 AM
I was going to buy Defence Grid but I'm not because even though it's not that expensive, I feel that because of this dollar/euro thing, I'm being ripped off. First lost sale as far as this user is concerned. I thought I should say it.

Same here.

Wanted to buy World of Goo and Defense Grid and few other games, but now i won't. After this whole €uro stunt was introduced i bought World of Goo directly from Developer (2DBoy) for 14.41 EUR.
Not gonna buy Defense Grid until the price is fixed ($19.99 ~ 16.49EUR, VAT included), just because of principle.

Another disappointed customer, thanks VALVe.

Mangr0v3
12-24-2008, 12:20 AM
How can we have 150,000 views, almost 2000 posts, and yet no fix from VALVe?

Almak
12-24-2008, 12:25 AM
We got interviews like this one:
http://www.steamfriends.com/news/3635/prices-steam-euros

Nothing "official"

Btw, gotta love those many "Posts: 1" guys..3d party?! Yeah sure I mean Valves games are of course priced correctly according to the currency exchange rate...oh wait! :rolleyes:

Heh yeah I used to visit the forums from time to time to look up support tips for games I bought but just never had a reason to speak up until now. Its great so many people are voicing their concerns over this. The greater the chance they might actually do something about it (albeit slight chance).
Oh and thanks for the link.

FidelCastrol
12-24-2008, 12:26 AM
How can we have 150,000 views, almost 2000 posts, and yet no fix from VALVe?

Simply put ? They don't give a damn ;)

dfrank79
12-24-2008, 12:27 AM
Well what makes me more angry is that I'm Swiss, we aren't in the european union WE DON'T USE EUROS!!! So we have a double change of value. Why they have done Pounds and not CHF? Or why the hell we "europeans" can't be like the rest of the world and pay in USD? A credit card payment remains a credit card payment, it's not important which currency is be used, the euro trick is done only to gain 25% of more profit on the european market which is becoming the biggest videogames market for pc videogames. I hope that europeans will not be blind again, and will not accept to always pay more than the rest of the world. Online purchase is dead, local stores or shipping stores are now more convenient and with the same or lower price we have something in the hand! Thanks Steam (but you are not the only one) to treat european gamers as dumb moneywaster...

Vir
12-24-2008, 12:39 AM
How can we have 150,000 views, almost 2000 posts, and yet no fix from VALVe?

Its Christmas. :)

jalf
12-24-2008, 12:42 AM
Its Christmas. :)

And it's already too late to save their holiday sales in Europe. So they might as well leave the issue a few more days... ;)

thawk
12-24-2008, 12:51 AM
I'm really disappointed with Valve. I hope this gets fixed soon or i won't buy anything more from Steam. Here in Portugal i usually pay 49€ for games (which is a lot but i can understand) but at least it comes with a box, manual, etc etc... Why should i pay exactly the same thing (or in some cases even more) for the ability to download and play the game?

Miklander
12-24-2008, 01:23 AM
The problem is, direct conversion doesn't guarantee good pricing. Obviously most of Europe has been screwed over somewhat by the change, but the UK now has competitive prices listed on Steam. A month ago it was the opposite, there was pretty much
nothing on Steam worth the price for us Brits.

Well if those UK prices are now competetive LET all europeans pay in pounds (us that use euros)

comlab
12-24-2008, 01:47 AM
Well what makes me more angry is that I'm Swiss, we aren't in the european union WE DON'T USE EUROS!!! So we have a double change of value. Why they have done Pounds and not CHF? Or why the hell we "europeans" can't be like the rest of the world and pay in USD? A credit card payment remains a credit card payment, it's not important which currency is be used, the euro trick is done only to gain 25% of more profit on the european market which is becoming the biggest videogames market for pc videogames. I hope that europeans will not be blind again, and will not accept to always pay more than the rest of the world. Online purchase is dead, local stores or shipping stores are now more convenient and with the same or lower price we have something in the hand! Thanks Steam (but you are not the only one) to treat european gamers as dumb moneywaster...

I'm form Switzerland too, I loved to buy games on steam, until now! Steam had always good prices for us, specially with the low US - CHF exchange rates. We had not to pay VAT on this products! But now over night, it's all over :eek:
We have to pay a "very high" Euro price, which have a bad exchange rate for a us Swiss people. And the price includes some VAT, which I'm not sure if I have to pay. Last games over steam was L4D and GTAIV.

But the most disappointing thing is that Valve did this before Christmas with minimum of communication. They fool all European customers, is this the way to do business?

zoltar777
12-24-2008, 01:51 AM
Well what makes me more angry is that I'm Swiss, we aren't in the european union WE DON'T USE EUROS!!! So we have a double change of value. Why they have done Pounds and not CHF?

Because they think "kids" who buy these games are so silly they don't know anything about exchange rate and value of their money.

They want to exploit Euro exchange rate not CHF echange rate.BTW forcing non-euro users to pay in euro it's not only abuse but arrogance.Same thing with different VAT values.They think they are so cool and powerful they can set rules - you like or not.

Non-euro users are double screwed in fact they pay not only inflated price but also they have to pay their bank service charge for money exchange.

supernaut
12-24-2008, 02:00 AM
Just have patience guys and in the mean time don't buy any games with the current high prices. If Valve has any brains (and they do), then this will be sorted out.

It can't stay like this, that's for sure. The thing that baffles me though is that they launched this flawed new system without it being resolved during the beta. And as always, Valve keeps the news post way too short, which is one of the reasons people got pissed off.

Products on Steam are now priced using local currency in the United Kingdom (Pounds Sterling), and Europe (Euros). All other countries remain in United States Dollars.

It doesn't hurt to be more vocal and explain things properly. It makes me sad the way this was handled.

dfrank79
12-24-2008, 02:01 AM
But the most disappointing thing is that Valve did this before Christmas with minimum of communication. They fool all European customers, is this the way to do business?

I'm on steam very often and I've noticed only yesterday that dollar sign changed to euro signed. The prices seem the same, I think there will be some user that will notice the change only when they receive the credit cards bills at home. Nice Christmas gift.

Kentt
12-24-2008, 02:18 AM
Don't forget guys. There are always other sites with digital distribution.

Direct 2 drive has actually prices that ARE cheaper than retail (at least here in our country).

Just compare GTA 4 on D2D and on Steam.

Steam : 50 €
D2D : 25 pounds = 30 €

The only real "pain in the ♥♥♥" of D2D is the fact that if you live outside GB, you are restricted from buying half of the games . Pretty much as you are restricted from good prices on steam.

I don't really see any reason to do this, when there are other digital distributors that actually have stuff cheaper than in retail and even on steam.

Oh, also.

Merry Christmas!

PaEMa
12-24-2008, 02:23 AM
the only that will lose moneys will be steam... we hope that they come back...

Ticko
12-24-2008, 03:16 AM
Fifa Manager 09: 49.99€ (Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/17400/))
Fifa Manager 09: 17.95€ (EA Store (http://eastore.ea.com/store/eaemea/es_ES/DisplayProductDetailsPage/productID.106071400))

Thx Steam, I've decided to never more buy you a game... :p

Hedgehog|NL
12-24-2008, 03:40 AM
Fifa Manager 09: 49.99€ (Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/17400/))
Fifa Manager 09: 17.95€ (EA Store (http://eastore.ea.com/store/eaemea/es_ES/DisplayProductDetailsPage/productID.106071400))

Thx Steam, I've decided to never more buy you a game... :p

Guess it depends on the country, over here in the Netherlands it's 49,99 on both places.

Go1den3ye
12-24-2008, 03:45 AM
I dont really get all this.

First off:

Im from norway and we dont pay tax on digital download, so we're now actually paying to mutch.

And why should the europeeans pay more for a game than the us? that doesnt seem fair considering there is no more expences involved.

but I came back resently from a vacation in jersey, and the prices was in $ then, I didnt dare to buy games then, but if I had, would that count as import?

strandedPL
12-24-2008, 04:01 AM
Go1den3ye

And why should the europeeans pay more for a game than the us? that doesnt seem fair considering there is no more expences involved.

Maybe it doesn't seem to be fair, but it's legal.

but I came back resently from a vacation in jersey, and the prices was in $ then, I didnt dare to buy games then, but if I had, would that count as import?

If you would want to buy games in USA you would still need American credit card or PayPal account. Your Norwegian credit card or PayPal wouldn't work, Steam wouldn't let it through.

netlork
12-24-2008, 04:01 AM
Just have patience guys and in the mean time don't buy any games with the current high prices. If Valve has any brains (and they do), then this will be sorted out.

It can't stay like this, that's for sure. The thing that baffles me though is that they launched this flawed new system without it being resolved during the beta. And as always, Valve keeps the news post way too short, which is one of the reasons people got pissed off.

Products on Steam are now priced using local currency in the United Kingdom (Pounds Sterling), and Europe (Euros). All other countries remain in United States Dollars.

It doesn't hurt to be more vocal and explain things properly. It makes me sad the way this was handled.



Yes, but United Kingdom does belong to the European Union (and paid in another currency that is not €) and other countries OUTSIDE the European Union have to pay in €

What explains this?

chokke
12-24-2008, 04:10 AM
The fact that GTA IV comes with SecuROM (source) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/12210/) is proof enough that some games still have third party DRM.

Crysis still have all that DRM things... (not sure if they do if you buy them over steam, I have the box)

That has nothing to do with EA games, which was my point.
I belive that Valve and EA has get to feel the financial crysis, considering EA has fired about 10 % of their staff (about 1000 people) and both have been communicating and given an option that suits both.
I still look positive on this (even with the lack of an official response from Valve to why).

Yammo
12-24-2008, 04:24 AM
Wanted to buy Defense Grid for quite a while. I guess it will have to wait until

1/ The price is corrected
2/ I can buy it from somewhere else.

Point #2 will be prefered, even if price is lowered.


If I'm counting correctly, you are lost sale #4.

Karma_Police
12-24-2008, 04:28 AM
Yes, but United Kingdom does belong to the European Union (and paid in another currency that is not €) and other countries OUTSIDE the European Union have to pay in €

What explains this?

Bad geography skills?

Yammo
12-24-2008, 04:35 AM
Steam is not the only place where you can buy DG, yet steam, even with this 1=/=1 thingy is still the best.

Why is it "the best"?

If you cross out the benefit of:
- being able to install your your games at any one of your computer via steam
...with the outrageous downside that:
- if you lose your account you lose ALL your games.
you get a store with 30-40% higher prices for the exact same product...

You are being taken for a fool...
I understand that US-citizens don't get it when they get prices of $30-$40... But to do the calculations for you... We thus pay $42-$56 for the same product.

Given two stores, and the free choice, purchase a product off the store selling a product at $40 or the one selling the same product at $56?

This is what MARKET is about... What STEAM is trying to do is to circumvent the market and trick/force us to pay redicilous sums.

If all fails... there is always an "alternative". Although I would rather buy my games.

redavatar
12-24-2008, 04:40 AM
That has nothing to do with EA games, which was my point.
I belive that Valve and EA has get to feel the financial crysis, considering EA has fired about 10 % of their staff (about 1000 people) and both have been communicating and given an option that suits both.
I still look positive on this (even with the lack of an official response from Valve to why).

And both are being utter pillocks and are mistreating the market.

Valve has now pulled this $1->€1 stunt while EA is trying to kill the second hand market with its DRM scam all the while pretending it's to counter piracy (yeah, sure, piracy - which is why every EA game has been fully cracked within hours of its release).

Both do this to gain extra money - EA hope that the lack of second hand copies floating around will push people to buy the games new which means more money into their pockets. Valve made the change to euros because they can easily alter prices just for Europe making the obvious difference with US prices less obvious.

Both are being pillocks like I said because they're alienating their customers. EA has lost a LOT of sales because of DRM - I personally no longer buy ANY EA game. The result is very obvious: Red Alert 3, barely a month old, is already to be found for 20 euros in several places. Shops see their stock of EA games remain unsold or it shifts a lot slower. And now Valve will stop people from buying games on Steam as well.

MilesTEG1
12-24-2008, 04:40 AM
Hello,
I just found this topic.
I'm a french user of steam.
I bought some games because of price first, and for the download.
But with the unacceptable conversion $ = €, I will never buy anything on steam as the price go down...
I found unacceptable to paid the same price and in many case more of the price I can bought the game on an internet store...
With steam, there is no box, no intermediate, no polution...
So why should I paid the same price or more than a boxed version of the game !!!

it is only unacceptable !

Stilgar
12-24-2008, 04:48 AM
I just want to add that I too am annoyed that Valve take me for a fool. At least they could have raised the retail prices in Europe if they just wanted us to pay more. And Valve have better not pull this third party ♥♥♥♥ on me because I was looking at their own Left 4 Dead that costs 45 EU on Steam and like 36 EU in retailers in Bulgaria. I know I am not buying it from Steam AND not buying it retail until they fix that.

arnauu
12-24-2008, 05:08 AM
Please install VAC(Valve anti cheat) at the online shop!!!!

Yammo
12-24-2008, 05:30 AM
I think I'm starting to understand it. (Yes, conspiracy mode on.) Still, some pieces from the whole picture are missing, but it looks like that EA - one of the biggest publishers - demanded Valve that they are contracting with them only if Steam can make different prices for the EU and US customers. Probably this is why European currency system was developed in such a hurry, that even prices weren't balanced between € and $, and EA games arrived one or two days after after this system was officially deployed. And since there's no possibility to automatically convert between EA's mysterious €/$ pricing, both currencies must have been separately defined - currently all € prices set as default to the $ counterparts. My opinion is that Valve really wanted to contract with EA, even if it required their Steam system to be compromised. They also understood that this will upset their customers in Europe. But making an official statement about it during these times is really not a wise idea - that's why they haven't done so. Customers won't forgive them, so better stay quiet. So their next step now is to contact all publishers/developers who provide games on Steam to negotiate an Euro price too for their games aside from the already negotiated Dollar prices. Until then the best Valve can offer is to not count VAT on the already overpriced games due to their default Euro price. Of course this is far from the best consolation, but still not as bad as counting additional VAT on the already unnecessary high prices.

Looks like Eidos was in fact a real (khm) "sun of a beach" to follow EA's demand and increase the € price for some of their titles even more. But there's the proof that reasonable negotiation also goes on, that e.g. Savage 2's € price has been reduced to be a real equal to its $ price. (Savage 2 is $9,99 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/13700/?cc=us), or 6,99€ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/13700/?cc=hu) - this is how it should work for all titles.)
Therefore Mike D.'s statement is also true saying that they are aware of the problem and fixing it soon. If everything above is true, then during January and February all Euro prices will fall back to their normal value, as Euro price negotiations with the publishers proceed.

What I really don't understand here that doing such a step especially before Christmas highly discourage customers from Steam, they feel betrayed, as this happens now. Well Valve probably measured that EA was still a great deal at the cost of customer loss, therefore they chose to burden their customers briefly with bad prices (to win EA), then likely will repay them later. The latter one is what I suspect will happen next month. Not with money of course (but who knows, even a difference refund is possible), but more likely with heavy discounts. So the plan for Valve is/was/will be:
1. beg for EA to contract, even sacrifice customers,
2. beg for customers to come back / recruit new customers.
Well, we shall see.


The biggest joke is that EA had /(still has?) a competitor to Steam. Not a real competitor per se, since noone uses it since it is expencive and bothersome and only has EA games on it. So knowing that EA has a failed Steam-like-client should have raised warning-bells for Steam. I only hope that Steam has not gone too far in bed with EA. Since imo Steam has the power to bring EA to it's bidding, I don't understand why we're being screwed to please EA.

Yammo
12-24-2008, 05:36 AM
Merry christmas:) My new-years resolution is that I shall not buy any games from steam before we get the same pricing as the UK does.


I see your "same pricing" and raise you "until we see cheaper games than available on web-shops like Amazon.com and game.com.

That is the only thing that will bring me back to steam. I'll use my current games happily... but no way I will spend full pricing for something that could be revoked at someone elses whim-of-the-day.

Merry xmas all!!! :)
(except the twisted sods @ steam who thought this would pass unnoticed...)

sneetch
12-24-2008, 05:59 AM
I see your "same pricing" and raise you "until we see cheaper games than available on web-shops like Amazon.com and game.com.

That is the only thing that will bring me back to steam. I'll use my current games happily... but no way I will spend full pricing for something that could be revoked at someone elses whim-of-the-day.

Merry xmas all!!! :)
(except the twisted sods @ steam who thought this would pass unnoticed...)

I'm also out until they restore the old system or drop their prices (I don't care whose decision it is to set the prices, it's not my problem, my only problem is finding somewhere else to buy and my local stores, play, sendit, blahdvd, game.co.uk and other sites mentioned in this thread are all damn good alternatives).

I believe that they hoped the change would slip by largely unnoticed during the hectic Christmas period and now they're hoping it will die down over the New Year.

I think it will, it'll be a lot quieter around here real soon but not because people have quietly given up and gone back to buying their stupidly overpriced games but because they've gone elsewhere. Wait a few days to get a game from an online store for half the Steam price? Sure. Makes sense.

Actually, why are we wasting our time here howling into the void? We know the solution: buy elsewhere. They'll drop their prices quickly enough if no-one is buying.

Merry Christmas all and a Happy New Year.

Aim_Less
12-24-2008, 06:02 AM
please send more complains to the european comission ( instructions on first post )
they will kick valve's ♥♥♥ and make the prices fair for us

strandedPL
12-24-2008, 06:21 AM
Update #8:


GOG.com games are the same price, no matter where you live

As we get close to saying "Adios!" for a few days, we just wanted to bring your attention to a new point on our About Us page. The critically acclaimed "Point 8" proclaims that we offer the "same game, same price, no matter where you're from!" With our humble Polish roots, we know how frustrating it can be to have access to products or other online services limited for geographic reasons. Or to pay more just because of unfavorable regional pricing. Well, at GOG.com we take that extra step... we go that extra mile... we climb that extra mountain... we hit the "End Turn" button just one more time to bring everyone around the world the same games catalogue at the same price. Wherever you are in the world, have a great time this holiday season (even if you don't have a holiday season) and we hope you get a lot of time to game.

image here (http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1601/samepriceeverywhereyu6.png)

Link in here (http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/GOG_com_games_are_the_same_price_no_matter_where_y ou_live/39/1)!

ultio
12-24-2008, 06:22 AM
Well, I like Killerwatts assumption (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8734887&postcount=1771), it seems quite logic and would just show how EA did it again. This could even support the rumors, that Valve set the prices and not the publishers, but we probably will never know that.

frymaster
12-24-2008, 06:25 AM
Valve has now pulled this $1->€1 stunt while EA is trying to kill the second hand market with its DRM

I'm sorry but what stunt?

a few weeks ago:

- All prices in steam were in dollars
- Publishers could set different dollar prices in different regions

Now:
- In the european region, the prices are set in euros instead of dollars. The initial values are made equal to the previous dollar prices. Publishers can still set their own price in each region.

During the brief overlap:
- Buying in euros was pointless since the value in dollars was always going to be lower than the value in euros

I'm not sure what this "$1 = €1" is referring to. If you take values from the US store, the numbers certainly aren't equal to those for valve games in the euro store. And for any other games, well that's up to the individual publishers, isn't it?

frymaster
12-24-2008, 06:27 AM
I think I'm starting to understand it. (Yes, conspiracy mode on.) Still, some pieces from the whole picture are missing, but it looks like that EA - one of the biggest publishers - demanded Valve that they are contracting with them only if Steam can make different prices for the EU and US customers.

Huh? This has always been the case - just ask the australians (RRPs over there are higher and the prices in the steam store reflect this). Dollar prices in europe (and especially in australia) have never been equal for all games. I'm sure they were for some games, but not for all.

sfaok
12-24-2008, 06:41 AM
So, a full week on and there's STILL no response from Valve.

Show what they think of their European customers.

jalf
12-24-2008, 06:44 AM
I'm sorry but what stunt?
The stunt where Valve tells all the publishers selling games on Steam "hey, we're going to sell your games using a conversion of 1$= 1€. If you'd like different prices, let us know".

The stunt of *by default* raising prices by 40%, and then letting it be up to publishers whether they want to lower it back to something sane.

frymaster
12-24-2008, 06:49 AM
The stunt where Valve tells all the publishers selling games on Steam "hey, we're going to sell your games using a conversion of 1$= 1€. If you'd like different prices, let us know".

The stunt of *by default* raising prices by 40%, and then letting it be up to publishers whether they want to lower it back to something sane.

so what else do you suggest they should have done?

"we're going to start selling in euros, and to start it off we're going to unilaterally take control of your prices and adjust them without your permission rather than let you retain control and do what you want"?

"we're going to start selling in euros, so until you set a value we're withdrawing your games from the store"?

I'm genuinely curious what you think they could have done, other than change a website from saying "Please enter the sale price for this region in dollars" to "Please enter the sale price for this region in euros". Unless you think they _should_ have been able to alter prices for other publishers' games without thier permission, in which case I hope I'm never one of your clients

sfaok
12-24-2008, 06:51 AM
"We're going to start selling in Euros, the Euro price will track the exchange rate, plus a premium of 3.5%."

mouton
12-24-2008, 06:51 AM
I'm sorry but what stunt?

a few weeks ago:

- All prices in steam were in dollars
- Publishers could set different dollar prices in different regions

Now:
- In the european region, the prices are set in euros instead of dollars. The initial values are made equal to the previous dollar prices. Publishers can still set their own price in each region.

During the brief overlap:
- Buying in euros was pointless since the value in dollars was always going to be lower than the value in euros

I'm not sure what this "$1 = €1" is referring to. If you take values from the US store, the numbers certainly aren't equal to those for valve games in the euro store. And for any other games, well that's up to the individual publishers, isn't it?
By now, there were some minor changes in the prices. But back when the change happened, it was all basically a change from the Euro sign to Dollar sign. If one didn't pay attention, he wouldn't even notice it! It sure looked like a Christmas attempt to rake maximum profits amid the confusion.

You formulated your post as if we were in some transition period and all is good. Well, then why the hell Valve didn't SAY so?! All we saw from the user perspective is all of sudden prices became ridiculous with a sparse news item that "we now have local currency, rejoice". And still, after few days, we got NO response from Valve, even though their employees are known to be very active on those forums!

At the very LEAST it is a blunder of insane proportions by Valve. It is also quite likely Valve wanted to raise the prices as much as possible hoping no one would notice and the sheep would continue to buy. I hope it is not the case. Still, the prices remain totally non-competitive. Steam prices were slightly higher than retail anyway, but now they are nearly 50% higher in many cases.

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 06:53 AM
Well, goodbye Steam Store. I won't buy anything from there, as long as Valve doesn't change the prices for Europe to match US prices.
Even Impulsedriven is cheaper then the Steam Store.

NICKYFRESH2000
12-24-2008, 06:59 AM
Steam you're losing U.S. customers too because of this fiasco, you've shown absolutely no respect to any of your customers....just a little FYI.

now please go write about snow on the homepage in the forums instead of addressing this issue.

sfaok
12-24-2008, 07:04 AM
Yeah, well the snow is more important that pissing off an entire contenent of customers.

Ghodea Dehel
12-24-2008, 07:04 AM
This is UNACCEPTABLE!

Valve can consider me another lost customer due to ludicrous pricing.
First of all, they are denying EU members access to the UK store which is illeagal and legal action will be taken against this.
Second, why am I in Sweden being forced to pay in Euros? we dont even HAVE Euros here. Its the same as forcing China to pay in Euro or even better, forcing US to pay in Euro.
See how ridiculous that sounds?
I just cant believe a company is stupid enough to do a thing like this.

also, this post is probably going to be censored because it has negative things about steam and valve.

frymaster
12-24-2008, 07:04 AM
"We're going to start selling in Euros, the Euro price will track the exchange rate, plus a premium of 3.5%."

that makes no sense. Prices of games by US publishers in the shops don't vary according to the exchange rate, why should they on steam? Also it would take a lot of the advantages of the system away. A publisher wanting to make steam prices equivalent to local prices would have to take the local price, work back from the current exchange rate to get the dollar price, and then watch it like a hawk for currency variations.

Not that is also makes it easier for publishers to notice if their prices are too high compared to local prices. If both steam store and retail prices are in the same currency this is a lot easier to notice and point out.

Near Elite
12-24-2008, 07:05 AM
so what else do you suggest they should have done?

"we're going to start selling in euros, and to start it off we're going to unilaterally take control of your prices and adjust them without your permission rather than let you retain control and do what you want"?

"we're going to start selling in euros, so until you set a value we're withdrawing your games from the store"?

I'm genuinely curious what you think they could have done, other than change a website from saying "Please enter the sale price for this region in dollars" to "Please enter the sale price for this region in euros". Unless you think they _should_ have been able to alter prices for other publishers' games without thier permission, in which case I hope I'm never one of your clients

They could have done this before the beta, to start with.

Kaiser Soze
12-24-2008, 07:06 AM
Well, not sure of what that fixing some prices you are talking.
I keep seeing same figures in almost every game if I go to us version. They just have changed $ for € symbol. almost anything have changed.

And frymaster, no idea what are you talking about. Valve could have converted $ to € using official exchange rates. But what have they done is increase the price that developers had in Europe. So think before post that this was the only thing they could do. They have in fact changed the prices the games had, and all at once become more expensive. the "all at once" is what makes me sure that wasn't developers decision but Valve's.

That and the salvage 2 thing makes me think that Valve decided unilaterally to increase the prices and let the developers the possibility to make then equal as they were before. It seems that a few (very few) have done so, but given its Xmas time many developers companies may not even have been aware of the problem.

Also there a few who are aware (and happy) with the changes (EA). I guess that many will not so happy when they realize how poor were their Xmas sells in Europe. so probably Valve could have screwed not only us but a few developers with this.

Modiga-Disabled
12-24-2008, 07:06 AM
so what else do you suggest they should have done?

"we're going to start selling in euros, and to start it off we're going to unilaterally take control of your prices and adjust them without your permission rather than let you retain control and do what you want"?

"we're going to start selling in euros, so until you set a value we're withdrawing your games from the store"?

I'm genuinely curious what you think they could have done, other than change a website from saying "Please enter the sale price for this region in dollars" to "Please enter the sale price for this region in euros". Unless you think they _should_ have been able to alter prices for other publishers' games without thier permission, in which case I hope I'm never one of your clients

Indeed. I'd imagine there are a lot of legal ties in place that restrict what VALVe can do themselves. One issue that has always been present for VALVe and Steam are the retailers, they do not like being undercut by digital distribution and I've heard that they do lobby the publishers to restrict the prices on Steam from being placed too low.

frymaster
12-24-2008, 07:09 AM
This is UNACCEPTABLE!

Valve can consider me another lost customer due to ludicrous pricing.
First of all, they are denying EU members access to the UK store which is illeagal and legal action will be taken against this.
Second, why am I in Sweden being forced to pay in Euros? we dont even HAVE Euros here. Its the same as forcing China to pay in Euro or even better, forcing US to pay in Euro.
See how ridiculous that sounds?
I just cant believe a company is stupid enough to do a thing like this.

also, this post is probably going to be censored because it has negative things about steam and valve.

are they really denying people access to the UK store? are you saying you've gone to the UK, tried to buy something on steam and been told "sorry, denied?" I think not.

Before you were "forced" to pay in dollars, I fail to see the difference in being "forced" to pay in euros.

Near Elite
12-24-2008, 07:10 AM
are they really denying people access to the UK store? are you saying you've gone to the UK, tried to buy something on steam and been told "sorry, denied?" I think not.

Great idea! Let's all travel to the UK just to buy games through Steam ;)

FredWP
12-24-2008, 07:12 AM
Great idea! Let's all travel to the UK just to buy games through Steam ;)

You can't. Unless you quickly become a customer at some UK bank, get a house there to register the information on, then you can.

You can visit the UK Steam store whenever you want, but they check the country on your Paypal account or your credit card.

Entering false information will tell you the purchase contains errors and will disallow you to continue. Enjoy these digital Internet barriers. When somebody tells you again the Internet is where everyone is equal, think again.

lackoo
12-24-2008, 07:13 AM
http://www.popcap.com/
Every download game is 50% off.

FredWP
12-24-2008, 07:15 AM
http://www.popcap.com/
Every download game is 50% off.

Bad thing about it, it doesn't contain a lot of games Steam contains. No Valve games, no Fallout 3, nog GTA IV.

sfaok
12-24-2008, 07:15 AM
that makes no sense. Prices of games by US publishers in the shops don't vary according to the exchange rate, why should they on steam? Also it would take a lot of the advantages of the system away. A publisher wanting to make steam prices equivalent to local prices would have to take the local price, work back from the current exchange rate to get the dollar price, and then watch it like a hawk for currency variations.

Not that is also makes it easier for publishers to notice if their prices are too high compared to local prices. If both steam store and retail prices are in the same currency this is a lot easier to notice and point out.

Because since the inception of Steam they did. Prices paid by European gamers rose and fell with the exchange rate because we paid in Euros to our credit card companies and they made the conversion. Implementing my suggestion would keep things ticking along just as they always have.

The 3.5% suggested addition is simply an administration fee for the conversion, and indeed, is probably too high.

Steam prices should be independent of retail pricing structures because they have next to zero overheads. The entire point of digital distribution for me, and for many others, is the appeal of a cheaper product. Steam, for me, is the the budget airline, Ryanair of retail options - there's no frills - you don't get any physical product, but it's cheaper. At least that's how it SHOULD work.

Publishers shouldn't be worried about retail chains - they certainly aren't worried about them with their contuining reliance on the second-hand market, which takes away millions in revenues from publishers.

Ghodea Dehel
12-24-2008, 07:21 AM
are they really denying people access to the UK store? are you saying you've gone to the UK, tried to buy something on steam and been told "sorry, denied?" I think not.

Before you were "forced" to pay in dollars, I fail to see the difference in being "forced" to pay in euros.

I cannot use the UK store with my Swedish credit card. Yes I'm being denied service.

aob
12-24-2008, 07:27 AM
Before you were "forced" to pay in dollars, I fail to see the difference in being "forced" to pay in euros.

:o What's so hard to understand?

we don't care that we have to pay in euros, it's the fact all the prices have increased by up 30% for some Europeans because valve/devs/whomever decided to use some ludicious made-up exchange rate for the dollar/euro.

If I buy the game in dollars I save money because my bank converts the money correctly.

Mkilbride
12-24-2008, 07:29 AM
The money is converted correctly. I am still confused as to why Euro customers are so bent out of shape. The $ and Euro are now equal in Value in steam. I consider this VERY fair.

NICKYFRESH2000
12-24-2008, 07:30 AM
Indeed. I'd imagine there are a lot of legal ties in place that restrict what VALVe can do themselves. One issue that has always been present for VALVe and Steam are the retailers, they do not like being undercut by digital distribution and I've heard that they do lobby the publishers to restrict the prices on Steam from being placed too low.

If this is a subliminal way of telling us the actual reason for the exchange rate debacle, why not be up front about this? I know that "lobbying" power is difficult to overcome however I think alot of customers would be less anxious and wouldn't direct all their wrath towards Valve if this were clearly stated. Let truth be told.

Mkilbride
12-24-2008, 07:34 AM
You know, I don't usually defend mods, but look at this...

Volunteer Moderator

Volunteer Moderator

Volunteer Moderator

Volunteer Moderator

Volunteer Moderator

Do you think he really knows, the full depths of Valves internal politics?

Modiga-Disabled
12-24-2008, 07:35 AM
If this is a subliminal way of telling us the actual reason for the exchange rate debacle, why not be up front about this? I know that "lobbying" power is difficult to overcome however I think alot of customers would be less anxious and wouldn't direct all their wrath towards Valve if this were clearly stated. Let truth be told.

I'm just a community moderator. Those are my thoughts, but I cannot say anything for sure.

marekfreak
12-24-2008, 07:39 AM
The money is converted correctly. I am still confused as to why Euro customers are so bent out of shape. The $ and Euro are now equal in Value in steam. I consider this VERY fair.

You should really read the original post. Its pretty straight forward.

NICKYFRESH2000
12-24-2008, 07:39 AM
You know, I don't usually defend mods, but look at this...

Volunteer Moderator

Volunteer Moderator

Volunteer Moderator

Volunteer Moderator

Volunteer Moderator

Do you think he really knows, the full depths of Valves internal politics?


I am not claiming that a Volunteer Moderator knows anything of value, I'm just offering a suggestion to Valve that would help remedy the situation for the time being. Namely, be upfront with your customer. Don't purposely withhold information that would be in our best interest to know, that would be lying.

benjiro
12-24-2008, 07:43 AM
are they really denying people access to the UK store? are you saying you've gone to the UK, tried to buy something on steam and been told "sorry, denied?" I think not.

Before you were "forced" to pay in dollars, I fail to see the difference in being "forced" to pay in euros.

They did it already in the past, so why not today?

When you buy a product on Steam, your method off payment is checked vs your geographical location. If they dident, most European's will have used a proxy to buy things ( and yes, even if you try to buy something using a server located in the US, they know exactly where your from using your payment method. ). So, whats stopping them from using a UK <-> Other country check. Nothing at all...

When i talk about this "1 euro -> 1 dollar" problem, and how steam is more expensive, people shake there heads in disbelief how stupid a company can be. And when they find out that there is no middleman, double drm, no physical media etc, well, you don't need to guess the response. Lets just say, if i type it here, we are going to see a lot off censuring off my post. :)

I for one find one thing funny. How a lot off people already complained during the Beta Phase off the Currency Conversion, and how so many people where being "fanboys", defending valve that they where going to fix it. Yea right.

Take it from somebody who has his share off beta's behind him. When you smell smoke, 9/10 change there is going to be fire.

And even today, some people still belief that valve will fixed it fast. No they won't.

Most people will not notice the change until they see there monthly bill. And as many people are buying presents for friends ( and them selfs ), a lot off people are going to buy things, way more expensive.

Take a good look, when there is going to be a one day holiday 50% price drop in a few days ( like the years before ). The prices used will be the expensive 1 on 1. Only after the shopping period ( Mid January ) your going to see a change in prices. Why not now? Most people are not informed, so, the few that are boycotting them are neglectful, and even those few that boycot are going to buy when its 50% off ( even with the higher base price ). In the end, its a win win situation. On the long run, thats a other mater ( as we see the competition starting to use it against steam ).

sfaok
12-24-2008, 07:44 AM
Or for them to actually respond to the concerns of their customers rather than just ignoring the issue.

Xamataca
12-24-2008, 07:44 AM
Indeed. I'd imagine there are a lot of legal ties in place that restrict what VALVe can do themselves. One issue that has always been present for VALVe and Steam are the retailers, they do not like being undercut by digital distribution and I've heard that they do lobby the publishers to restrict the prices on Steam from being placed too low.
I want to know where those "restrictions" were the last 2 or 3 years...
And talking about lobbies, what do you think about "traditional" stores vs online-stores? (Can we apply the same theory? why on earth amazon can stand the mega-uber pressures of every lobby you can think of and offering better deals since ages?)

Digital download = retail product?
No, of bloody course, now we know what's the difference: Digital download is expensive (only for europeans, that is) than retail. There you go, the "excellence" of Steam.

I've been always buying books and music from amazon... I've always got them inmensily more cheap, including shiping+vat than in retailers, yet amazon seems to resist better those evil lobbies over the years.
And for Valve: Just cheers for them not stepping into the digital download world... yet.

Haas82
12-24-2008, 07:53 AM
I soo hope the raised the price so they can give a discount after christmas.

ICantShoot
12-24-2008, 07:54 AM
The money is converted correctly. I am still confused as to why Euro customers are so bent out of shape. The $ and Euro are now equal in Value in steam. I consider this VERY fair.

Dollars and Euros might be equal value on Steam but thats not the case in real life. You can get 1 dollar with 0,7 euros which means that games cost more in euros than in your precious dollars.

Mkilbride
12-24-2008, 07:55 AM
Yes, I know. But why not make it equal, it's better that way. I mean, everyone wanted equality, and Steam is just the first to venture and do it themselves, regardless of the economic standards. I think it's brave. :P

swebonny
12-24-2008, 07:56 AM
I rarely post here, but this the dumbest move ever made by Steam.
In all the mess, the economical crisis and the exchange rates going up and down, they deicide to do this.
Well, I guess they'll have to do this when the US economy sucks ♥♥♥♥.

netlork
12-24-2008, 08:03 AM
Yes, I know. But why not make it equal, it's better that way. I mean, everyone wanted equality, and Steam is just the first to venture and do it themselves, regardless of the economic standards. I think it's brave. :P


LOL, why not make it equal?? you're crazy man XD.
You're asking that the euro is begin devalued? LOOOOL


Or why do not better go up your price to you to match the value of the game in the EU? :)

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 08:03 AM
And I think that this is pure greed.

Yes, I know. But why not make it equal, it's better that way. I mean, everyone wanted equality, and Steam is just the first to venture and do it themselves, regardless of the economic standards. I think it's brave. :P

Mkilbride
12-24-2008, 08:08 AM
LOL, why not make it equal?? you're crazy man XD.
You're asking that the euro is begin devalued? LOOOOL


Or why do not better go up your price to you to match the value of the game in the EU? :)


I would love if the US dollar matched your Euro. Either way, as long as they're the same. We're all equal. ^____________^

steel78
12-24-2008, 08:08 AM
I think Valve should make an on line exchange office they would be mighty popular with these exchange rates.

Karma_Police
12-24-2008, 08:11 AM
I would love if the US dollar matched your Euro. Either way, as long as they're the same. We're all equal. ^____________^

So you pay 49.99$ for a game, I pay 69.99$, and we are equal? Right...

netlork
12-24-2008, 08:11 AM
I would love if the US dollar matched your Euro. Either way, as long as they're the same. We're all equal. ^____________^

Yes it is, but when you see that has only been matched to the games, we will see what you think :)

Mkilbride
12-24-2008, 08:14 AM
I'm saying your Euro should be worth the same, our our US dollar should be worth as much as your Euro.

I don't think it's fair to the money itself, if a different type of currency is better than it. I see that as second class currency happening, and I am against such an offensive thing!

netlork
12-24-2008, 08:17 AM
Oh yes, in a "perfect" world, all currencies would have the same value, but not in this, the real world :)

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 08:18 AM
I'm saying your Euro should be worth the same, our our US dollar should be worth as much as your Euro.

I don't think it's fair to the money itself, if a different type of currency is better than it. I see that as second class currency happening, and I am against such an offensive thing!

Thats what you get for having a lousy economy

Mkilbride
12-24-2008, 08:21 AM
But see, Steam isn't the real world, it's the VIRTUAL / DIGITAL world, so maybe on it, all currency COULD be equal.

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 08:22 AM
Steam is the real world. You pay with real money, for a download to your real hard drive.

But see, Steam isn't the real world, it's the VIRTUAL / DIGITAL world, so maybe on it, all currency COULD be equal.

Karma_Police
12-24-2008, 08:23 AM
Money doesn't have feelings :D

Anyway, it's not all that bad because a weaker dollar gives an export advantage to the US.

Like steam used to have before they did this.

netlork
12-24-2008, 08:23 AM
Is not fair or logical, because they sell real material, not physical but real.
And Steam isn't a virtual world, is an online shop :)

SniperFox
12-24-2008, 08:24 AM
Steam is the real world. You pay with real money, for a download to your real hard drive.

I think he means, that the steam service is not limited by extra regional costs, such as shipping. This is true, and an exact reason why they should use a fair currency rate.

strandedPL
12-24-2008, 08:25 AM
Update #9

It seems that prices in the Steam Store for European customers are finally being fixed!

Here's one example I have managed to find!

Note: I have used 22% VAT example below! Even without any tax those games are cheaper for Europeans!

Dawn of War: Platinum Edition

Europe:
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/447/?cc=pl
14,99 Euros񗟜- no tax

USA:
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/447/?cc=us
29.99 Dollars + 6.59 VAT tax = 36.58 Dollars

Exact exchange rate: 36,58 USD is 26.14 EUR, so this game is actually cheaper for us now!

Company of Heroes

Europe:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/4560/?cc=pl
9,99 Euros - no tax

USA:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/4560/?cc=us
19.99 Dollars + 4.39 VAT Tax = 24.38 Dollars

Exact exchange rate: 24.38 USD is 17.42 EUR, so this game is actually cheaper for us now!

netlork
12-24-2008, 08:25 AM
I think he means, that the steam service is not limited by extra regional costs, such as shipping. This is true, and an exact reason why they should use a fair currency rate.

Yes, and the fair currency is (actually) 1€ = 1.4$


PS: Thankx CorneliusCH for the correction XD

Mkilbride
12-24-2008, 08:27 AM
Update #9

It seems that prices in the Steam Store for European customers are finally being fixed!

Here's one example I have managed to find!

Note: I have used 22% VAT example below! Even without any tax those games are cheaper for Europeans!

Dawn of War: Platinum Edition

Europe:
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/447/?cc=pl
14,99 Euros񗟜- no tax

USA:
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/447/?cc=us
29.99 Dollars + 6.59 VAT tax = 36.58 Dollars

Exact exchange rate: 36,58 USD is 26.14 EUR, so this game is actually cheaper for us now!

Company of Heroes

Europe:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/4560/?cc=pl
9,99 Euros - no tax

USA:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/4560/?cc=us
19.99 Dollars + 4.39 VAT Tax = 24.38 Dollars

Exact exchange rate: 24.38 USD is 17.42 EUR, so this game is actually cheaper for us now!


Well congrats to you, looks like Steam fudged up again. And they had just made everything even stevens.

Karma_Police
12-24-2008, 08:27 AM
But see, Steam isn't the real world, it's the VIRTUAL / DIGITAL world, so maybe on it, all currency COULD be equal.

Nice. Maybe they could do that and start selling games at 49.99 NOK to our Norwegian friends. That would be around $7.

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 08:30 AM
Its 1 EUR = 1,40 USD

Yes, and the fair currency is (actually) 1€ = 0.7$

Mkilbride
12-24-2008, 08:31 AM
Nice. Maybe they could do that and start selling games at 49.99 NOK to our Norwegian friends. That would be around $7.

I believe that would be very fair. All currency should be equal, no second class or third class currency! No Money-ism!

netlork
12-24-2008, 08:31 AM
Update #9

It seems that prices in the Steam Store for European customers are finally being fixed!

Here's one example I have managed to find!

Note: I have used 22% VAT example below! Even without any tax those games are cheaper for Europeans!

Dawn of War: Platinum Edition

Europe:
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/447/?cc=pl
14,99 Euros��- no tax

USA:
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/447/?cc=us
29.99 Dollars + 6.59 VAT tax = 36.58 Dollars

Exact exchange rate: 36,58 USD is 26.14 EUR, so this game is actually cheaper for us now!

Company of Heroes

Europe:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/4560/?cc=pl
9,99 Euros - no tax

USA:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/4560/?cc=us
19.99 Dollars + 4.39 VAT Tax = 24.38 Dollars

Exact exchange rate: 24.38 USD is 17.42 EUR, so this game is actually cheaper for us now!

Depending of the country, in spain for example the tax is 16%, not 22%, even so, those 2 are more cheap. But here i can find those 2 for 9.99€ in retail stores :)

But good try valve, at least they are trying ;)

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 08:32 AM
There is no such thing as fairness in economy.

I believe that would be very fair. All currency should be equal, no second class or third class currency! No Money-ism!

netlork
12-24-2008, 08:34 AM
Its 1 EUR = 1,40 USD

Thanks dude, I'm confused XD

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 08:35 AM
No problem, otherwise the Europeans would have bit**ed about something that wasn't true :)

Thanks dude, I'm confused XD

lackoo
12-24-2008, 08:35 AM
All currency should be equal, no second class or third class currency! No Money-ism!I wish our forint be equal with your dollar.

ImmortalJoke
12-24-2008, 08:36 AM
Condescension by Valve : The story of a company trying to screw their customers from other continents.

Out since 15/12/2008.


!!!!!! SPOILER !!!!!!
!!!!!! SPOILER !!!!!!
!!!!!! SPOILER !!!!!!
!!!!!! SPOILER !!!!!!
!!!!!! SPOILER !!!!!!
!!!!!! SPOILER !!!!!!
!!!!!! SPOILER !!!!!!
!!!!!! SPOILER !!!!!!


They fail at the end... a really sad story.

Sheesh :rolleyes:

Oggy1985
12-24-2008, 08:36 AM
my prices are back to $$ (at normal rate)! dough, i didn't try to buy anything yet so dunno if it is 4 real. Is Steam coming back to its senses?!? Oh, the sales drop must have hurt :D

FredWP
12-24-2008, 08:41 AM
my prices are back to $$ (at normal rate)! dough, i didn't try to buy anything yet so dunno if it is 4 real. Is Steam coming back to its senses?!? Oh, the sales drop must have hurt :D

Even in the Steam Store browser? Because if you visit through a different country link your prices will remain until you clear cookies or visit another cc link again.

Lance_Lake
12-24-2008, 08:50 AM
So does this mean I get to complain how EU games are cheaper then US games?

SniperFox
12-24-2008, 08:53 AM
So does this mean I get to complain how EU games are cheaper then US games?

The prices of the UK store were already alot cheaper, so you're pretty late then. :p

Karma_Police
12-24-2008, 08:53 AM
So does this mean I get to complain how EU games are cheaper then US games?

Yes. You can now create a new thread and a new steam group about how 2 (old) games out of 400 are now cheaper in €.

Oggy1985
12-24-2008, 08:55 AM
Even in the Steam Store browser? Because if you visit through a different country link your prices will remain until you clear cookies or visit another cc link again.

emh... you're right... damn cookies! In Steam Store browser prices are the same crappy € as they were!

false alarm...

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 08:59 AM
And most of the EA titles are still overpriced. I wish they would turn it back to dollar... Especially because Swiss is not even part of the European Currency Union.

Stonos
12-24-2008, 09:32 AM
The store is down (http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/store.steampowered.com).

Maybe they're finally fixing the euro price? :O

SniperFox
12-24-2008, 09:34 AM
I can confirm that indeed the store is down. Hopefully they'll implement a currency converter, or atleast change some prices. Although I doubt that'll happen, since no official response on this matter was given.

sjeje
12-24-2008, 09:35 AM
The store is down (http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/store.steampowered.com).

Maybe they're finally fixing the euro price? :O

Let's hope ^^

supernaut
12-24-2008, 09:46 AM
Store is down indeed, I expect rainbows and gifts when it gets back on.

Merry Christmas.

Smurfy12
12-24-2008, 09:48 AM
THE STORE IS DOWN!

ARE YOU DOWN? DON'T BE A SQUARE! GET DOWN RIGHT NOW

Near Elite
12-24-2008, 09:53 AM
THE STORE IS DOWN!

ARE YOU DOWN? DON'T BE A SQUARE! GET DOWN RIGHT NOW

Haha, hey there fellow Facepuncher :)

aob
12-24-2008, 10:00 AM
The money is converted correctly. I am still confused as to why Euro customers are so bent out of shape. The $ and Euro are now equal in Value in steam. I consider this VERY fair.

Go to your steam store, look at the prices in Dollars,

Now add 30% more onto all those prices.

THAT'S what valve have done to Europeans, they haven't just converted dollars to euros, they've hiked the prices up for europeans, THAT'S why people are upset; price increases hidden within Valve's "we're trying to make it easier for europeans to understand prices" excuse.

frymaster
12-24-2008, 10:15 AM
Go to your steam store, look at the prices in Dollars,

Now add 30% more onto all those prices.

THAT'S what valve have done to Europeans, they haven't just converted dollars to euros, they've hiked the prices up for europeans, THAT'S why people are upset; price increases hidden within Valve's "we're trying to make it easier for europeans to understand prices" excuse.

except that for a large percentage of games of steam, valve don't set prices. All valve have done is made the store work in euros. It's up to the individual publishers to then say what amount of euros they want the game to sell for.

a physical store buys games from the publisher and can then do whatever they want with them and sell them for whatever price they want*. Steam does not work like this; steam is more a sort of agent, selling the game on behalf of the publisher and taking a cut. They don't set prices** any more than a credit card transaction handling company does.

* Apart from if they sell before release date, and even then I think it's more a case of "we won't sell you any more games if you do that"

** Apart from for valve games, of course. And even then I suspect there's something in their agreement with EA that prevents Valve undercutting EA at launch.

Avair
12-24-2008, 10:22 AM
The money is converted correctly. I am still confused as to why Euro customers are so bent out of shape. The $ and Euro are now equal in Value in steam. I consider this VERY fair.

troll detected

palker4
12-24-2008, 10:31 AM
it will be a christmas present from them

Spidery_Yoda
12-24-2008, 10:35 AM
You know i've just sat here and read the last few pages, and have come to the conclusion that Mkilbride has no idea what is actually going on, and doesn't understand exchange rates.

No offense of course, but thats what I think must be the case. He seems to think we have equal prices :confused:. Mkilbride the EU store is far more expensive than the US one.

And I too wonder what the Steam Store being down means. Must be something to do with Christmas :D.

Xamataca
12-24-2008, 10:45 AM
except that for a large percentage of games of steam, valve don't set prices. All valve have done is made the store work in euros. It's up to the individual publishers to then say what amount of euros they want the game to sell for.

yay! They've only made their store to work in € and pounds?!. Clearly that's why valve games are more expensive for europeans than 10 days ago. :cool:

a physical store buys games from the publisher and can then do whatever they want with them and sell them for whatever price they want*. Steam does not work like this; steam is more a sort of agent, selling the game on behalf of the publisher and taking a cut. They don't set prices** any more than a credit card transaction handling company does.

So 2, 3 years ago there were no problem, and suddenly all the publishers increment their game prices in 20-30% (and, let me repeat it, because it seems that you didn't understand the whole picture, only for europeans)

Because you keep posting about this being normal, I'll tell you clearly:
10 days ago prices were cheaper by 20/30% for us europeans.
I'll give you a valuable tool so you can think better about it:
http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-usd.en.html

ImmortalJoke
12-24-2008, 11:05 AM
@frymaster You have no idea how the business works buddy.

frymaster
12-24-2008, 11:18 AM
yay! They've only made their store to work in € and pounds?!. Clearly that's why valve games are more expensive for europeans than 10 days ago. :cool:


So 2, 3 years ago there were no problem, and suddenly all the publishers increment their game prices in 20-30% (and, let me repeat it, because it seems that you didn't understand the whole picture, only for europeans)

Because you keep posting about this being normal, I'll tell you clearly:
10 days ago prices were cheaper by 20/30% for us europeans.
I'll give you a valuable tool so you can think better about it:
http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-usd.en.html

the point is, to cause an increment in the sales price, all they have to do is do nothing. It's not a conscious decision to raise prices; all it takes is them not doing anything, or the person who makes the decisions being off, or similar.

Thus, without anyone ever agreeing to raise prices, prices get raised.

@frymaster You have no idea how the business works buddy.

On the contrary, I have great experience with the kind of chaos that can happen from simple changes. If you're suggesting that because I'm not saying this is due to conspiracy then I think you're naive. Most businesses are not nearly organised enough for that sort of conniving

I know everyone wants to blame valve for some underhand devious move, but in the real world that doesn't happen. This is just fallout from changing to euros, and will be fixed as and when publishers update their prices. THQ already have, for at least some stuff. Valve did ages ago (prices work out higher than the US; good news is that store-bought valve stuff integrates with steam, so you don't lose the steam redownloadable-ness by being a canny shopper). Others will if they care about actually selling stuff

Flo
12-24-2008, 11:26 AM
Valve isn't dumb. Doing this transition at this particular time, with inadequate testing and without giving third party publishers adequate time to adjust their prices must have been a conscious decision.

Stilgar
12-24-2008, 11:32 AM
Excuse me frymester but how exactly are Valve innocent if their own Left 4 Dead is 30% cheaper at retailers in Europe? Also how is that they did not test this OBVIOUS issue. Also there was a beta right? So who is to blame?

Haas82
12-24-2008, 11:32 AM
Let's hope ^^
I think it is more possible that there hacked by some mad eurogamer...

supernaut
12-24-2008, 11:36 AM
The store has been down for awhile now.

Jackalito
12-24-2008, 11:40 AM
Let's just hope they're working on fixing this mess.

ImmortalJoke
12-24-2008, 11:59 AM
@frymaster > I was suggesting you being naive by thinking Valve to be as pure as the driven snow in this story. ;)

oiccrene
12-24-2008, 12:03 PM
Do I ♥♥♥♥ing care about European retail market and their prices?!
I DO NOT.
I cared about steam and I can not find single issue why games can not be same price for eu, usa, canada, rest of the world or the moon. It's freaking same internet all over here, god damn it!

Smurfy12
12-24-2008, 12:04 PM
Rock, Paper, Shotgun have mentioned this madness in the last article of their "Best 2008 Ever" series.

We catch first wind of what might yet erupt into a really major scandal that kicks the bloom right off Steam’s sainted rose - a Euro version of the digi-download app launches (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/12/steam-goes-european-prices-go-crazy/), and initially lovely prices soon descend into rip-off horror.

John: We’re still trying to figure this one out, and once Christmas is over we’ll try and get some answers. But it seems the new UK Steam has led to fantastic new prices for UK people, and in turn seen prices lower on US Steam. But somehow this has left the rest of Europe with price increases. Since the pound and the Euro are currently identical, it’s a very strange state of affairs. Euro readers, be assured we’re equally thrown by the price increases, and want to find out why Valve/their clients have done this.

Kieron: Yeah, this is simply beyond my ability to understand right now with my tiny refictionist brain. We’ll dig into it in the new year.

Article link (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/24/now-thats-what-i-call-a-best-2008-december-erm/).

Sound like there's some investigative journalism around the corner.

lackoo
12-24-2008, 12:39 PM
Article link (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/24/now-thats-what-i-call-a-best-2008-december-erm/).

Sound like there's some investigative journalism around the corner.
on the EU beta.They are fast. ;)

Oggy1985
12-24-2008, 12:54 PM
maybe they even closed the shop :D

4 Europeans, with such prices in store, there is no point in running it :D

if you ask me - if they intent to put the same 1$=1€ prices, they don't have to bother bringing the store back online :o

cryptodan
12-24-2008, 12:57 PM
Do I ♥♥♥♥ing care about European retail market and their prices?!
I DO NOT.
I cared about steam and I can not find single issue why games can not be same price for eu, usa, canada, rest of the world or the moon. It's freaking same internet all over here, god damn it!

Same internet, but different currencies.

Svecka
12-24-2008, 01:11 PM
I hope, this will be reminder for "insert you know who", what kind of mistake they made. Words spread fast and today once very popular and respectful company is no. 1 on hate page. Next to it it follows EA.

s0iz
12-24-2008, 01:23 PM
Welcome to life.

Haas82
12-24-2008, 01:47 PM
I think the server felt over an error the error is called $=€ server goes hmm that is not right....poof server down.
Valve must correct the math error before server can be restarted.

Stilgar
12-24-2008, 02:00 PM
In programming terms InvalidCurrencyConversionException was unhandled

kfccaleb
12-24-2008, 02:18 PM
No more coal and water from Europe for the steam machine. Engine fail.

jalf
12-24-2008, 03:42 PM
except that for a large percentage of games of steam, valve don't set prices.
They don't?

I'd assume it works like any other retailer. They publisher says how much they want for a sale, and then the store decides what they want to sell the product for. Which means that Valve *does* set the price. Just like Gamestop or any other store sets the prices in their own stores.


All valve have done is made the store work in euros.
Now you're just trolling. You're ignoring facts that have already been pointed out to you a dozen times.

Valve decided on the conversion rate and the initial price for *all* games, as explained by the S2 devs. Valve basically sent out emails going "this is how we're going to change the prices, let us know if you want to make any adjustments".

Valve also decided to charge the same price regardless of the VAT rate in the country you're buying from. Valve decided that Norwegians who pay no VAT should pay the same as Danes who pay 25%. EA or Ubisoft didn't make that decision, Valve did.

So Valve did *not* simply "make the store work in euros".



a physical store buys games from the publisher and can then do whatever they want with them and sell them for whatever price they want*. Steam does not work like this; steam is more a sort of agent, selling the game on behalf of the publisher and taking a cut. They don't set prices** any more than a credit card transaction handling company does.
And how do you know this?

Why *shouldn't* Valve be able to set the prices themselves? As long as the publisher gets its cut, why should they care if Valve decides to adjust their prices?

And since they *do* most certainly set prices on their *own* games, and those suffer from the same problem, your argument can be boiled down to "I know nothing about how Steam works, but I'm going to assume that Valve has done nothing wrong, and that it's *someone else's fault*".

That is just silly. I understand that you're apparently emotionally bonded to Valve, and feel an urge to defend them, but to most of us here, Valve is a business relationship and nothing else. We buy games from Steam when it's the cheapest option, and we assume Valve to be a company whose goal it is to make money.

But that doesn't change the fact that Valve has done a lot more than "just add euros to the store".

sjeje
12-24-2008, 03:44 PM
Funny that when it's down, there is communication from valve to say "we're working on it", nut there's no answer in this thread...

mouton
12-24-2008, 03:44 PM
I know everyone wants to blame valve for some underhand devious move, but in the real world that doesn't happen. This is just fallout from changing to euros, and will be fixed as and when publishers update their prices.
"Just fallout"? Even if it is the case, why couldn't Valve SAY so? A simple news post saying "uh, we are transitioning, prices are fubar, fixing it ASAP, sorry" would have made this thread four pages, not four billion. By denying to communicate anything to their customers, they just made crowds of people think it a scam. And it is not just a few forum whiners, the steam group dedicated to this cause has now like, 9000 members! ONE post from Valve would stop it at 90.

Dude, try to understand the situation. Many people who now post here in anger would have been considered "Valve fanbois" just a few days ago. Myself, I love Valve for the brilliant games they made and i love Steam for showing us you can do DRM without harming your customers. That is why people are so furious - you could expect this kind of behaviour from EA or MS, but not from Valve. I care for this company and I am astonished they could do something so utterly, completely STUPID. Why couldn't they have hammered it out in beta? Why couldn't they have asked the publishers about the prices BEFORE the transition? Why couldn't they have TOLD us that they are fixing it? Absence of all this means that they are either very stupid or blinded by simple greed.

Jackalito
12-24-2008, 03:52 PM
It seems like the store is back online again. I think there's some 5€ off on some games. Can you all confirm that?

EDIT: Seeing those prices again, I think I'm mistaken and they stay the same :(

sjeje
12-24-2008, 03:57 PM
It's the same prices for me...

CsendesMark
12-24-2008, 03:59 PM
I saw lot of discount on ALL games!
for one min (for example L4D 40.99€)

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 04:01 PM
Still overpriced compared to what the americans have to pay.

I saw lot of discount on ALL games!
for one min (for example L4D 40.99€)

Alegis
12-24-2008, 04:02 PM
If you're still looking for L4D, €30 delivered on gamestation.co.uk

CsendesMark
12-24-2008, 04:05 PM
Still overpriced compared to what the americans have to pay.

Yes!
I said: only for one min.. :(
But all of the prices was reasonable.

Avair
12-24-2008, 04:06 PM
gabe newell replied to my email

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo174/Avairinator/NewBitmapImage2.jpg?t=1230163584

not sure if I should take the time to write a response he probably is aware of what his company is doing?

sartek
12-24-2008, 04:07 PM
not sure if I should take the time to write a response he probably is aware of what his company is doing?

if you are polite why not?

Avair
12-24-2008, 04:10 PM
in retrospect I realize that perhaps he thinks I mean europeans who are scamming people instead of the act of scamming europeans, which they are doing, but yea the reason I think it's pointless is his email is probably flooded by angry mail from europeans already?

sjeje
12-24-2008, 04:12 PM
Fini...Answer him :D

Jackalito
12-24-2008, 04:13 PM
Maybe they're testing some things. I just hope they reduce the prices again.

mouton
12-24-2008, 04:13 PM
Well, your email didn't have much substance, lol. I wouldn't call it a reply either. At least not the kind this thread is waiting for. And I am positive he got spammed already.

Stilgar
12-24-2008, 04:15 PM
If only I knew his e-mail I would join the flood...
and BTW Left4Dead still costs 45EU for me.

Avair
12-24-2008, 04:18 PM
gaben@valvesoftware.com

he doesn't exactly keep it a secret

Stilgar
12-24-2008, 04:23 PM
after posting his e-mail in this thread he will be flooded:)

CorneliusCH
12-24-2008, 04:35 PM
Ever heared of anti-spam filters, the one you can set manualy?

after posting his e-mail in this thread he will be flooded:)

MAC13DAV
12-24-2008, 04:37 PM
Same internet, but different currencies.

I would say:

Same Internet, different prices...

Jackalito
12-24-2008, 04:37 PM
after posting his e-mail in this thread he will be flooded:)

I don't think so. I mean, his e-mail is well known and in fact it's been posted before in this very thread, right?

kfccaleb
12-24-2008, 04:41 PM
Yep. It has been posted here in this thread.

MAC13DAV
12-24-2008, 04:42 PM
I don't think so. I mean, his e-mail is well known and in fact it's been posted before in this very thread, right?

Right...

But then if it's well known it is not his "real" email. It's just for spam...

Alegis
12-24-2008, 04:43 PM
He does reply now and then to sensible questions in that mail address.

Spamming won't help.

Stilgar
12-24-2008, 04:54 PM
I won't spam him but ask reasonable question which is "DO YOU THINK WE'RE IDIOTS?"

Well, more sophisticated of course.

MAC13DAV
12-24-2008, 04:55 PM
Yeah... Well...

Nothing will change this situation.... not our crying, or begging...

Only Steam (Valve) when (if) they decide that they ♥♥♥♥ED up they wiil TRY (read: make us think it was not they fault) to mend things.

It's christmas time... I know it's not fair for us, but still it's too late, so let's give them those another 24 to 36 hrs to "mend" things... we'll see...

And I do not think they will ever commit that they ♥♥♥♥ED up. It does not come with official "PR".

RMJ1984
12-24-2008, 04:55 PM
Its really amazing how long it can take a big company like Valve to fix these moron prices :( keeping a store online allowing people to buy games and ripping them off?.

In my little world its amazing a company like Valve is striving to go to the buttom and sitt my E.A and there quality games and quality prices and quality customer support, shape up VALVE.

K-Lagan
12-24-2008, 04:58 PM
Good bye Steam !!

1$ ≠ 1€

K-Lagan from France.

bassoman
12-24-2008, 05:12 PM
Over the past few weeks, I've learned to look past Steam's unholy adages. I've learned to look past some of the gin-swilling things Steam has said. I've even learned to look past its attempts to redefine success and obscure failure. But I cannot stay silent about Steam's incomprehensible and unforgivable audacity regarding a specific event that recently occurred. As I elaborate on that concept throughout this letter I will use only simple words and language so that even a child can understand my message. Yes, even a child should know that Steam's jeremiads are poxy. They're unnecessary. They're counterproductive. Whenever I encounter them I think that Steam's passive-aggressive viewpoints are in full flower and their poisonous petals of deconstructionism are blooming all around us.

By allowing Steam to perpetuate myths that glorify Lysenkoism we are selling our souls for dross. Instead, we should be striving to call a spade a spade. Given Steam's record of shady dealings, we can say that in these days of political correctness and the changing of how history is taught in schools to fulfill a particular agenda, what I take much more seriously than abominable wimps are wishy-washy publishers of hate literature. That should serve as the final, ultimate, irrefutable proof that I want my life to count. I want to be part of something significant and lasting. I want to clean up the country and get it back on course again.

Here, I, hardheaded cynic that I am, am merely trying to advance the opinion that everything I've said so far is by way of introduction to the key point I want to make in this letter. My key point is that every time Steam tells its legatees that granting it complete control over our lives is as important as breathing air, their eyes roll into the backs of their heads as they become mindless receptacles of unsubstantiated information, which they accept without question. Steam talks out of both sides of its mouth. But don't take my word for it; ask any unctuous traitor you happen to meet. From this perspective, Steam has conceived the project of reigning over opinions and of conquering neither kingdoms nor provinces but the human mind. If this project succeeds then the worst kinds of vexatious slubberdegullions there are will be free to strip the world of conversation, friendship, and love. Even worse, it will be illegal for anyone to say anything about how I once managed to get Steam to agree that a bloody-minded spirit is precisely the wrong spirit in which to snap its confidants out of their trance. Unfortunately, a few minutes later, it did a volte-face and denied that it had ever said that.

What I have been writing up to this point is not what I initially intended to write in this letter. Instead, I decided it would be far more productive to tell you that when it comes to Steam's ideas, I claim that we have drifted along for too long in a state of blissful denial and outright complacency. It's time to reveal the nature and activity of its thralls and expose their inner contexts as well as their ultimate final aims. The sooner we do that the better because Steam has no discernible talents. The only things it has indisputably mastered are biological functions. Well, I suppose Steam's also good at convincing people that one can understand the elements of a scientific theory only by reference to the social condition and personal histories of the scientists involved, but my point is that Steam is not as birdbrained or shameless as you might think. It's more so. Steam's rantings should be labeled like a pack of cigarettes. I'm thinking of something along the lines of, "Warning: It has been determined that Steam's epigrams are intended to beat plowshares into swords."

To believe that Steam's decisions are based on reason is to deceive ourselves. Well, let's get our facts straight. Steam demands that we make a choice. Either we let it force some to live by restrictive standards not applicable to others or it'll goad obscene, reprehensible punks into hurling epithets at its enemies. This "choice" exemplifies what is commonly known as a "false dichotomy" or "the fallacy of the excluded middle" because it denies other alternatives, such as that Steam is not a responsible citizen. Responsible citizens open minds instead of closing them. Responsible citizens indubitably do not sap people's moral stamina.

What do we owe Steam? Nothing, absolutely nothing. If it claims otherwise, we have to stand firm and point out that Steam is simply incapable of entertaining an unorthodox idea. Steam may mean well but people tell me that it believes that denominationalism is a be-all, end-all system that should be forcefully imposed upon us only because it has a need to believe that. And the people who tell me this are correct, of course. There's an important difference between me and Steam. Namely, I am willing to die for my cause. Steam, in contrast, is willing to kill for its -- or, if not to kill, at least to slow scientific progress.

There is an open consensus that Steam's monographs are saturated with the dysfunctional rhetoric that will clearly pooh-pooh the concerns of others. It's a pity. Some people think it's a bit extreme of me to tell you things that Steam doesn't want you to know -- a bit over the top, perhaps. Well, what I ought to remind such people is that Steam's henchmen tend to fall into the mistaken belief that profits come before people, mainly because they live inside a Steam-generated illusion-world and talk only with each other.

For your information, I find that some of Steam's choices of words in its apothegms would not have been mine. For example, I would have substituted "footling" for "scientificogeographical" and "disreputable" for "counterestablishment." Steam's cultists are tools. Like a hammer or an axe, they are not inherently evil or destructive. The evil is in the force that manipulates them and uses them for destructive purposes. That evil is Steam, who wants nothing less than to heat the cauldron of terror until it boils over into our daily lives.

It is becoming increasingly obvious to many people that Steam says that merit is adequately measured by its methods and qualifications. That is the most despicable lie I have ever heard in my entire life. Mercantalism is dangerous. Steam's childish version of it is doubly so.

Calling Steam's comrades disorderly, lazy dolts may be accurate, but the whole of Steam's neurotic, phlegmatic worldview may perhaps be expressed in one simple word. That word is "unilateralism". Let me explain: Steam talks a lot about Stalinism and how wonderful it is. However, it's never actually defined what it means. How can it argue for something it's never defined? I'm sure you already know the answer so I won't bother repeating it. I'd like to emphasize, however, that we must remove our chains and move towards the light. (In case you didn't understand that analogy, the chains symbolize Steam's horny remarks and the light represents the goal of getting all of us to stop the Huns at the gate.) There is a political agenda behind the "the best way to serve one's country is to inure us to neo-ugly paternalism" malarkey. That's all I have to say. Thank you for reading this letter.

Moloko
12-24-2008, 05:20 PM
Over the past few weeks, I've learned to look past Steam's unholy adages. I've learned to look past some of the gin-swilling things Steam has said. I've even learned to look past its attempts to redefine success and obscure failure.

[Snip]

There is a political agenda behind the "the best way to serve one's country is to inure us to neo-ugly paternalism" malarkey. That's all I have to say. Thank you for reading this letter.
Troll...

Wow.. you are a simple man using an online complaint-generator...

I.e.: http://www.pakin.org/complaint/

bassoman
12-24-2008, 05:22 PM
Troll...

Wow.. you are a simple man using an online complaint-generator...

I.e.: http://www.pakin.org/complaint/

I just had to give it a go.. :D

RogueNinjitsu
12-24-2008, 05:30 PM
Over the past few weeks, I've learned to look past Steam's unholy adages. I've learned to look past some of the gin-swilling things Steam has said. I've even learned to look past its attempts to redefine success and obscure failure. But I cannot stay silent about Steam's incomprehensible and unforgivable audacity regarding a specific event that recently occurred. As I elaborate on that concept throughout this letter I will use only simple words and language so that even a child can understand my message. Yes, even a child should know that Steam's jeremiads are poxy. They're unnecessary. They're counterproductive. Whenever I encounter them I think that Steam's passive-aggressive viewpoints are in full flower and their poisonous petals of deconstructionism are blooming all around us.

By allowing Steam to perpetuate myths that glorify Lysenkoism we are selling our souls for dross. Instead, we should be striving to call a spade a spade. Given Steam's record of shady dealings, we can say that in these days of political correctness and the changing of how history is taught in schools to fulfill a particular agenda, what I take much more seriously than abominable wimps are wishy-washy publishers of hate literature. That should serve as the final, ultimate, irrefutable proof that I want my life to count. I want to be part of something significant and lasting. I want to clean up the country and get it back on course again.

Here, I, hardheaded cynic that I am, am merely trying to advance the opinion that everything I've said so far is by way of introduction to the key point I want to make in this letter. My key point is that every time Steam tells its legatees that granting it complete control over our lives is as important as breathing air, their eyes roll into the backs of their heads as they become mindless receptacles of unsubstantiated information, which they accept without question. Steam talks out of both sides of its mouth. But don't take my word for it; ask any unctuous traitor you happen to meet. From this perspective, Steam has conceived the project of reigning over opinions and of conquering neither kingdoms nor provinces but the human mind. If this project succeeds then the worst kinds of vexatious slubberdegullions there are will be free to strip the world of conversation, friendship, and love. Even worse, it will be illegal for anyone to say anything about how I once managed to get Steam to agree that a bloody-minded spirit is precisely the wrong spirit in which to snap its confidants out of their trance. Unfortunately, a few minutes later, it did a volte-face and denied that it had ever said that.

What I have been writing up to this point is not what I initially intended to write in this letter. Instead, I decided it would be far more productive to tell you that when it comes to Steam's ideas, I claim that we have drifted along for too long in a state of blissful denial and outright complacency. It's time to reveal the nature and activity of its thralls and expose their inner contexts as well as their ultimate final aims. The sooner we do that the better because Steam has no discernible talents. The only things it has indisputably mastered are biological functions. Well, I suppose Steam's also good at convincing people that one can understand the elements of a scientific theory only by reference to the social condition and personal histories of the scientists involved, but my point is that Steam is not as birdbrained or shameless as you might think. It's more so. Steam's rantings should be labeled like a pack of cigarettes. I'm thinking of something along the lines of, "Warning: It has been determined that Steam's epigrams are intended to beat plowshares into swords."

To believe that Steam's decisions are based on reason is to deceive ourselves. Well, let's get our facts straight. Steam demands that we make a choice. Either we let it force some to live by restrictive standards not applicable to others or it'll goad obscene, reprehensible punks into hurling epithets at its enemies. This "choice" exemplifies what is commonly known as a "false dichotomy" or "the fallacy of the excluded middle" because it denies other alternatives, such as that Steam is not a responsible citizen. Responsible citizens open minds instead of closing them. Responsible citizens indubitably do not sap people's moral stamina.

What do we owe Steam? Nothing, absolutely nothing. If it claims otherwise, we have to stand firm and point out that Steam is simply incapable of entertaining an unorthodox idea. Steam may mean well but people tell me that it believes that denominationalism is a be-all, end-all system that should be forcefully imposed upon us only because it has a need to believe that. And the people who tell me this are correct, of course. There's an important difference between me and Steam. Namely, I am willing to die for my cause. Steam, in contrast, is willing to kill for its -- or, if not to kill, at least to slow scientific progress.

There is an open consensus that Steam's monographs are saturated with the dysfunctional rhetoric that will clearly pooh-pooh the concerns of others. It's a pity. Some people think it's a bit extreme of me to tell you things that Steam doesn't want you to know -- a bit over the top, perhaps. Well, what I ought to remind such people is that Steam's henchmen tend to fall into the mistaken belief that profits come before people, mainly because they live inside a Steam-generated illusion-world and talk only with each other.

For your information, I find that some of Steam's choices of words in its apothegms would not have been mine. For example, I would have substituted "footling" for "scientificogeographical" and "disreputable" for "counterestablishment." Steam's cultists are tools. Like a hammer or an axe, they are not inherently evil or destructive. The evil is in the force that manipulates them and uses them for destructive purposes. That evil is Steam, who wants nothing less than to heat the cauldron of terror until it boils over into our daily lives.

It is becoming increasingly obvious to many people that Steam says that merit is adequately measured by its methods and qualifications. That is the most despicable lie I have ever heard in my entire life. Mercantalism is dangerous. Steam's childish version of it is doubly so.

Calling Steam's comrades disorderly, lazy dolts may be accurate, but the whole of Steam's neurotic, phlegmatic worldview may perhaps be expressed in one simple word. That word is "unilateralism". Let me explain: Steam talks a lot about Stalinism and how wonderful it is. However, it's never actually defined what it means. How can it argue for something it's never defined? I'm sure you already know the answer so I won't bother repeating it. I'd like to emphasize, however, that we must remove our chains and move towards the light. (In case you didn't understand that analogy, the chains symbolize Steam's horny remarks and the light represents the goal of getting all of us to stop the Huns at the gate.) There is a political agenda behind the "the best way to serve one's country is to inure us to neo-ugly paternalism" malarkey. That's all I have to say. Thank you for reading this letter.

Heh! I did enjoy that read. :)

Kaiser Soze
12-24-2008, 05:34 PM
Ok, for all those who keep defending Valve with the argument that they do not set prices.

I just can't believe that. If (and its a really big if) that's true that would mean that EVERY SINGLE PUBLISHER in steam have decided to increase prices THE SAME DAY and BY THE SAME AMOUNT. I just cant believe that.

I have 2 possible explanations (well, 3 counting the EA conspiracy posted a few pages ago).

1: They are greedy. A lot. And they think we are idiots.

2: They are idiots. they may just have created a new window for publishers where they can introduce the desired price for Europe in euros. But some idiots focked it up and made a default entry. That default entry will be the same figures as in the US dollar in case the field is not fulfilled by the developer. Add little time for developer to fill the new euro price pannel ( like only 1 weekend)and what you got?: Valve convert every single price to euros using the stupid 1$=1€ exchange rate since developer had no time to adjust prices.

so my theories are: greedy or stupidity.

If you ask me my vote goes for both :P

Arnstone88
12-24-2008, 05:36 PM
Bah.. The store is online again, and the prices are still bad/wrong..
We should send some ghosts to these modern Mr.Scrooge's ;)

Moloko
12-24-2008, 05:38 PM
Bah.. The store is online again, and the prices are still bad/wrong..
We should send some ghosts to these modern Mr.Scrooge's ;)
Is Ghostbusters comming to Steam?

Ok.. silly joke.. :)

Aim_Less
12-24-2008, 06:36 PM
and the mods deleted some posts again

Modiga-Disabled
12-24-2008, 06:38 PM
One post, but it was spam.

Jackalito
12-24-2008, 06:51 PM
I can't figure this out, I don't know who's responsible for this; but being so greedy at Christmas must be a serious grave sin.

mouton
12-24-2008, 06:54 PM
One post, but it was spam.
Thank you for writing this. Honestly. Many mods moderated this thread but they usually deleted posts with no explanation whatsoever. This only prompted more people asking about it and thus more deletions and more irritation on all sides. I know you guys just do your work, but it is just that much better when you say what you do every now and then.

Come to think of it, it is similar to the topic at hand - lack of communication from Valve is severely inflaming the whole mess. Any message would be better than this silence.

Sierra Oscar
12-24-2008, 06:56 PM
Thank you for writing this. Honestly. Many mods moderated this thread but they usually deleted posts with no explanation whatsoever. This only prompted more people asking about it and thus more deletions and more irritation on all sides. I know you guys just do your work, but it is just that much better when you say what you do every now and then.

Come to think of it, it is similar to the topic at hand - lack of communication from Valve is severely inflaming the whole mess. Any message would be better than this silence.

If you ever have any questions about the moderation on the forums you are always welcome to PM a moderator, and we will do our best to fill you in.

Modiga-Disabled
12-24-2008, 07:10 PM
Thank you for writing this. Honestly. Many mods moderated this thread but they usually deleted posts with no explanation whatsoever. This only prompted more people asking about it and thus more deletions and more irritation on all sides. I know you guys just do your work, but it is just that much better when you say what you do every now and then.

Come to think of it, it is similar to the topic at hand - lack of communication from Valve is severely inflaming the whole mess. Any message would be better than this silence.

I can't disagree with that.

We obviously don't want to silence all criticism because we don't want everyone thinking they're opinions are being censored. We obviously aren't censoring all complaint about the system because this thread is very much alive and in sight for all to read. The problems are some people go a little overboard, they start spamming links to websites to a degree that really is way beyond tolerable, or someone says something that isn't factually correct and could be viewed as an intentional stretch of the truth to drum up support against VALVe or the moderation here. There are also comments that are likely to lead to arguments, or just things that shouldn't be said here because this is the wrong place entirely, things like legal threats, no moderator, or even really any VALVe employee who posts here can respond to them because we don't and can't represent VALVe, such discussions belong between lawyers.

Ultimately it puts us mods in a difficult situation, largely we're left to deal with things ourselves and we have to decide there and then if a post is better removed or whether it can stay and as you say, deleting a post leads people to think their opinions are being censored, which leads to the thread heading off on a tangent and more posts being deleted. With hindsight being what it is, things could have been handled differently, some posts that were deleted could have been left and the result probably would have been better for us all, but that's just how things roll. We make the choices there and then and hope we've made the right one. Doing too much makes everyone feel like they're not allowed to put their opinions across, but doing too little allows the entire thread to break down into non-constructive fighting and bickering, which is just as bad, nobody gets to have their opinion read when the entire thread is full of people hurling insults back and forth.

FidelCastrol
12-24-2008, 08:36 PM
If you ever have any questions about the moderation on the forums you are always welcome to PM a moderator, and we will do our best to fill you in.

Yeah well, the one I PMed about my posts being deleted, and the warning I got...never even bothered to answer.

But thanks for your input, seems that at least you guys are now telling us what is wrong with posts ;) that's appreciated.

aen
12-24-2008, 09:09 PM
bahh...i bought L4D at a store because it costed less, and that was before this insane conversion they are trying on us.

I think you should just relax, buying at retail stores is not a tragedy..

mouton
12-24-2008, 10:01 PM
If you ever have any questions about the moderation on the forums you are always welcome to PM a moderator, and we will do our best to fill you in.

Ultimately it puts us mods in a difficult situation, largely we're left to deal with things ourselves and we have to decide there and then if a post is better removed or whether it can stay and as you say, deleting a post leads people to think their opinions are being censored, which leads to the thread heading off on a tangent and more posts being deleted. With hindsight being what it is, things could have been handled differently, some posts that were deleted could have been left and the result probably would have been better for us all, but that's just how things roll. We make the choices there and then and hope we've made the right one.


My faith in Valve might be severely shaken but not in the moderators of this forum. It is good to see this matter cleared. Keep up the good work!

RMJ1984
12-25-2008, 12:48 AM
bahh...i bought L4D at a store because it costed less, and that was before this insane conversion they are trying on us.

I think you should just relax, buying at retail stores is not a tragedy..

It sure isnt, but when companies all over the world are complaining and even whining about their sales and piracy, the best way to prevent it, isnt by making it harder to buy games online by having to make 10 accounts in 10 programs to play like in GTA 4 or by making game more expensive than in shops where you get more stuff than just a digital game :S

The idea is, make it better, easier to get the game than downloading it illegally, and ofc make people wanna support you, and i must admit with a stunt like this i doubt im the only one that dont wanna support Valve atm.

Riven
12-25-2008, 01:19 AM
OMG, Fifa Manage 09 at 49,99 €? It costs 19,95 € boxed since day one here in Spain...

tangency
12-25-2008, 01:45 AM
OMG, Fifa Manage 09 at 49,99 €? It costs 19,95 € boxed since day one here in Spain...

If you check the retail Store MediaMarkt here in Spain, too, you'll likely found the Orange Box for just 13-10€.

nox_777
12-25-2008, 03:23 AM
I won't be buying anything on steam, unless they do something about this. I'd rather walk 5 miles to buy a game.

CorneliusCH
12-25-2008, 03:36 AM
Or buy it from ImpulseDriven, GoodOldGames, Direct2Drive or GamersGate.

Vir
12-25-2008, 03:46 AM
Sadly.. looks like d2D is the only option for those who are not willing to pay the extra $$
http://www.direct2drive.co.uk/

Yammo
12-25-2008, 03:48 AM
Hello,
I just found this topic.
I'm a french user of steam.
I bought some games because of price first, and for the download.
But with the unacceptable conversion $ = €, I will never buy anything on steam as the price go down...
I found unacceptable to paid the same price and in many case more of the price I can bought the game on an internet store...
With steam, there is no box, no intermediate, no polution...
So why should I paid the same price or more than a boxed version of the game !!!

it is only unacceptable !


Holy sh*t... Steam has even managed to wake out of their slumber.
Goes to show just how bad this is... ;)

supernaut
12-25-2008, 03:48 AM
GoodOldGames have a very limited selection of games atm, but I wish them all the best. They're doing a great job.

hoppern
12-25-2008, 03:59 AM
Or buy it from ImpulseDriven, GoodOldGames, Direct2Drive or GamersGate.

All those sites are crap IMO, except Good old games, but they dont sell new games though:P
Steam, undo this mistake.

CorneliusCH
12-25-2008, 04:01 AM
And why are they crap, please elaborate on your comment.
All those sites are crap IMO, except Good old games, but they dont sell new games though:P
Steam, undo this mistake.

Yammo
12-25-2008, 04:02 AM
I'm sorry but what stunt?

a few weeks ago:

- All prices in steam were in dollars
- Publishers could set different dollar prices in different regions

Now:
- In the european region, the prices are set in euros instead of dollars. The initial values are made equal to the previous dollar prices. Publishers can still set their own price in each region.

During the brief overlap:
- Buying in euros was pointless since the value in dollars was always going to be lower than the value in euros

I'm not sure what this "$1 = €1" is referring to. If you take values from the US store, the numbers certainly aren't equal to those for valve games in the euro store. And for any other games, well that's up to the individual publishers, isn't it?


You.... honestly... see no problem with how this has been implemented? Your argument is null and void. Slyly enforcing a 40-50% raise in prices without properly warning customers about it would fail in any court on any day in Sweden. I'm not sure about US-law, but I frankly do not think the "Bait-and-switch" technique would stand up in court even on Guantanamo.

You sir, must be either an employee of Steam/Valve/EA, lakey of the afformentioned institutions, or a plain fool (who soon shall be parted with his money.) Ad Hominem, I know... But there is no other way to make sense of your statement.


(In the absurd case you actually missed what "$1=€1" was about, read the rest of the board...)

Yammo
12-25-2008, 04:04 AM
so what else do you suggest they should have done?

"we're going to start selling in euros, and to start it off we're going to unilaterally take control of your prices and adjust them without your permission rather than let you retain control and do what you want"?

"we're going to start selling in euros, so until you set a value we're withdrawing your games from the store"?

I'm genuinely curious what you think they could have done, other than change a website from saying "Please enter the sale price for this region in dollars" to "Please enter the sale price for this region in euros". Unless you think they _should_ have been able to alter prices for other publishers' games without thier permission, in which case I hope I'm never one of your clients


LoL... I actually fell for it at first... haha...
Nice trolling :D You totally had me...

lackoo
12-25-2008, 04:04 AM
All those sites are crap IMO, except Good old games, but they dont sell new games though:P
Steam, undo this mistake.Have you ever bought anything from them?

hoppern
12-25-2008, 04:07 AM
Have you ever bought anything from them?

Well, yes. I have actually bought many games from gog, but I cant buy new games there. If gog started to sell newer games, then it would be my number one place to buy games now when steam is broken.

As for the other sites, I think they are way to -not user friendly-

CorneliusCH
12-25-2008, 04:08 AM
And why are they not user friendly?

Well, yes. I have actually bought many games from gog, but I cant buy new games there. If gog started to sell newer games, then it would be my number one place to buy games now when steam is broken.

As for the other sites, I think they are way to -not user friendly-

lackoo
12-25-2008, 04:09 AM
As for the other sites, I think they are way to -not user friendly-
Try them first,then speak. :)

Yammo
12-25-2008, 04:11 AM
that makes no sense. Prices of games by US publishers in the shops don't vary according to the exchange rate, why should they on steam? Also it would take a lot of the advantages of the system away. A publisher wanting to make steam prices equivalent to local prices would have to take the local price, work back from the current exchange rate to get the dollar price, and then watch it like a hawk for currency variations.

Not that is also makes it easier for publishers to notice if their prices are too high compared to local prices. If both steam store and retail prices are in the same currency this is a lot easier to notice and point out.



People... just ignore Frymaster... He is trolling.

If you the people, the customers, the gamers, feel it is ok being bait-and-switched like this... and if you think it is ok to pay 100% more on most games on Steam than other online stores, by all means.... Continue purchasing games from Steam.

If you feel belitteled, screwed, suckered by Steam,
then Find ANOTHER store.
This is how markets work!(Something Frymaster has yet to learn.)

Don't let Steam control you...
As long as there are enough of us, WE control Steam!

Yammo
12-25-2008, 04:17 AM
The money is converted correctly. I am still confused as to why Euro customers are so bent out of shape. The $ and Euro are now equal in Value in steam. I consider this VERY fair.


Ah... ok... so would you give me a Euro for every Dollar I give you? How about if I give you a million dollars... we be square if you gave me a million euro?

lol... go get a job at Verizon ffs...

netlork
12-25-2008, 04:29 AM
Ah... ok... so would you give me a Euro for every Dollar I give you? How about if I give you a million dollars... we be square if you gave me a million euro?

lol... go get a job at Verizon ffs...

MMh you are right, i like the idea :D , here another person (me) that give you (Mkilbride) 1 millon $ for each millon € that you give me :)

Please make me rich:)

ultio
12-25-2008, 04:35 AM
This thread became the most viewed thread in the Steamforums, unbelievable how popular that topic is.. 201000 hits.

Galaxy88
12-25-2008, 04:45 AM
Funny how the OP got banned mostly likely because the mods dont like the negative attitude towards valve, nice job guys keep covering those mistakes

Yammo
12-25-2008, 05:01 AM
The idea is, make it better, easier to get the game than downloading it illegally...


At least someone has awakened in the new century...
Welcome to the new market.

Max
12-25-2008, 05:06 AM
This is outrageous!

I was going to buy the valve complete pack for 99,99$ as a christmasgift for myself and now with this new system it should be around 143$, however.. They have changed it from 99,99 to 89,99 with the change from USD to Euro, but its still more then it should be.. The new price is now around 124$ and since that gamepack doesnt exist in retail stores i guess i'm screwed with that gift unless i can get someone from US/UK to gift it to me..

Really stupid strategy to release this system before christmas.. I guess alot of people was going to buy gifts for their friends for christmas but now i guess alot of people wont.. Your loss Valve..

And seriously, how should this new system make it easier for europeans to buy games anyway? We are 50 nations in Europe and only 15 countrys use the Euro.. Thats around 1/3 of europe. Do the math.. around 2/3 doesnt.
If you implement a currency system then atleast include an exchanger for USD to Euro, so the prices gets right, instead of just changing $ to € , and add an option for europens to change between USD and Euros.
Then this system would actually help the 1/3 or europeans that uses Euro and give the rest of europeans the option to decide if we want to pay for games in Euros or in USD.
The importanse of this is that the price is the same for everyone..

We live in the future. We shouldnt even have countries and regions. Just one big Internet where everyone is equal. With the same prices for everyone..

Thanks to this new system alot of people will stop buying games from steam and go back to retail, and those who stay and buy overcharged games will probably let Valve get the amount of money to cover the loss from the people who is leaving anyway. So the loss for Valve is alot of users and happy costumers..

Seriously.. Take this system back to the desk and improve it.. Add a currency exchanger to make the prices right for europens and add a "Switch to Euro" option for europeans, atleast for those that doesnt use Euros (~ 2/3 of europeans).

/Max

nowisee
12-25-2008, 05:09 AM
This is the dumbest idea the executives at steam/valve has had for some weeks.. First the Securom "incident" where those who pre purchased Crysis - Warhead wasn't told that it contained securom malware. Now this.. I wonder what the bright minds of Steam/Valve will come up with next.. limited download speed maybe?

I don't get this.. Valve used to be such a nice company and i liked them and steam. Now they just suck.. After they changed from dollar to euro i have to pay 41% more.. This is so stupid i don't know what to do. But one thing is for sure.. They just lost a loyal customer.. I have had steam since the very beginning, it was fun while it lasted.. but now it is cheaper for me to buy my games retail, or even better "go pirate".. Because that is now for me a viable option. You ♥♥♥♥ with me, i ♥♥♥♥ with you!

And i don't even live in a country that is part of the European Union, and we don't use Euros either..

1€ ≠ 1$ .. And why is the thread starter banned ??

ultio
12-25-2008, 05:10 AM
Funny how the OP got banned mostly likely because the mods dont like the negative attitude towards valve, nice job guys keep covering those mistakes

Yeah, it's like a martyr who believed in justice. Sounds like a good story..