Half-Life 2: Ep 3 - A Detailed Plot Interpretation [Archive]

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mimaz98

01-24-2009, 04:48 PM

Many of you might recall my attempts at writing up a logical interpretation of Episode Two's plotline. I have decided to do the same for Episode Three. Although I'm aware that the amount of information surrounding Episode Three is minimal at best, my desire to write up my thoughts on how the game will play out from start to finish has become a bit overwhelming. What you're about to read is vague, and has no basis on conclusive fact whatsoever. They are all theories. My current, and hopefully objective, interpretation. Feel free to judge them, discuss them, and criticise them. I will consistently update this original post with more detailed information and more accurate information as further news of Episode Three becomes available to the community. The following information will be presented as a detailed summary. In the near future, I will change this to represent a detailed list of events. So, enjoy. :)

Please note that the following information contains potential spoilers pertaining to the plot of Episode Three and its proceeding titles. If you do not wish to take the risks in spoiling the experience for yourself than I suggest you refrain from continuing.

Also note that the following information may contradict some of the information and footage we will see in any news or media that is to be released. I will change this interpretation accordingly. If by any chance there are any inconsistencies with the information provided than don’t hesitate to let me know. Comments and criticisms are welcome.

Half-Life 2 Episode Three
The Unofficial Episode Three Plot

The opening scene of Episode Three is a debatable and variable one, and one that is open to many interpretations. This is due mostly to the inconclusive manner in which Episode Two ended. When we the players fell to the ground as the Advisors retreated from the scene, leaving Alyx cowering over her father’s lifeless body, our vision was quickly obscured by darkness just as the credits began to roll. The million dollar question, and the question that will dictate just how Episode Three will open, is whether Gordon fainted from the fall/shock of what had transpired or if he remained conscious and all that simply happened was that the game ‘ended’. I personally feel that the latter occurred. Gordon has been known to fall from great heights before – certainly much greater than the one he suffered from at the end of Episode Two - so I don’t see how he could have fainted from that relatively minor impact. Furthermore, after everything Gordon has been through, I don’t expect he’d be incredibly affected by Eli’s death to the point of fainting. Not that he wouldn’t care; I’m sure he would. I just think that after staring at death in the face literally dozens of times Gordon wouldn’t find it so frightening anymore; he didn’t faint at all when he witnessed the sights that took place back at Black Mesa, certainly at a time when he would have been more affected by such sights. I expect he would have been shocked; which helps enforce the idea that he was ‘rooted to the spot’. Simply put, I think the game just ended with you lying on the ground in a state of disbelief.

Going by this, I expect Episode Three will begin immediately following the close of Episode Two. I think we’ll be once again lying on the ground in the chopper hanger with Alyx crying over her father’s corpse and with DOG looking on helplessly. I think it is crucial to the narrative that the game starts this way because it’s important to see the immediate reactions of Kleiner and Magnusson following Eli’s death.

Another curious thing to consider in the opening moments of Episode Three is Alyx Vance, and how exactly her personality and her actions will change following her father’s vicious and terrible death. This is equally uncertain. Alyx has always been portrayed as a woman of great integrity in a time of increasing sorrow, and anguish. She is a person of uncanny resourcefulness and she is a woman who, quite unlike other females, rarely shows her emotions or allows her emotions to take hold of her. All that she has ever really known is the post Black Mesa world and the only person, the only real figure in her life who has helped maintain her humanity and kept her safe in that post apocalyptic world, is her father. He was her pillar. What will happen to Alyx now that her pillar has broken? What will she do now after she has fallen and has nothing to hold her up and keep her steady? This is an intriguing question. Will Alyx succumb to her emotions? Will she be represented as a weak and sad person? Or, will she be the opposite? Who knows for sure! Despite this, there is almost no doubt in my mind, and there certainly shouldn’t be any doubt in anyone’s mind, that Alyx’s personality will see a significant change in Episode Three.

For the sake of this thread, I’m going to say that Alyx’s personality will take a much darker turn. I expect she will be become vengeful, desiring revenge upon the Advisors who killed her father and on the Combine as a whole. I expect this will be her motivation to continue, rather than falter and succumb to her sadness. Despite this, I think it’s almost equally possible that different directions can be taken with the story. I think it’s plausible, though I’m sort of two minds about it, that Alyx will stay behind at White Forest while the player ventures off on their own. Really not too sure how I feel about that, considering I think there’s only one mode of transport to the Borealis, and that’s via helicopter, and that helicopter in the hanger at the end of Episode Two appears to be the last one they got. To be honest, I’m really more inclined to believe that Alyx will go us at the very start.

To further expand upon the start of the game, there has been much talk about the possibility of conducting a funeral for Eli before the player leaves White Forest. Now, I did say I would be as objective about this interpretation of mine as possible, but I’m just going to say right here and now that a funeral is NOT going to take place! There I said it. Flame me for thinking I know definitely what’s coming. Don’t care Haha. To even remotely consider the possibility that a funeral will take place for Eli is nothing short of ridiculous, in my God’s honest opinion. That’s not to say the characters won’t want to hold one eventually, of course they would. But this is certainly not the time! The future of the planet and its people are at stake. Within hours, the world could end. The Combine are in hot pursuit of the Borealis. They know where it is now. They know what it can do, and what if offers them; a way off Earth, a way to communicate with the Combine Overworld, and a way to destroy Earth forever. The characters know this, and though they’d desperately want to put Eli at peace, they know far greater circumstances prohibit doing something so insignificant at the current time. So...no funeral folks! :D

Moving on, I expect that when Gordon and Alyx leave for the Borealis they will encounter trouble whilst in the air. I don’t see how Gordon and Alyx could be allowed to reach the Borealis immediately via helicopter. I think that defeats steady Gameplay and narrative progression, and it sort of defeats the entire purpose of introducing a new environment if you don’t allow players to fight within it and travel through for any period of time. That and I expect the satisfaction of reaching the Borealis would be greatly reduced if you were to just arrive there at the start. So, the question is: what will stop Alyx and Gordon from arriving there straight away? That’s really vague, but if I were to hazard a guess I’d say that the Advisors will be the one to stop them. Either that, or there could be certain geographical and/or paranormal difficulties that could prohibit them from getting there directly. I think this is equally as possible, as it would explain why Mossman would have to have landed and continue on foot. Either way, the chopper is going to land or crash some distance away from the Borealis, forcing Gordon and Alyx to continue on foot.

Let’s move away from the story. I’d like to get into the gameplay of Episode Three for a bit. A new environment! An arctic style environment. Lots of snow, icy mountains, and frozen lakes, mostly desolate I expect. What will be interesting to see is how Valve utilise this environment for gameplay purposes. In Episode One, the gameplay focus was on AI companionship. For Episode Two, the gameplay focus was on travel, while further expanding upon AI companionship. What will be Episode Three’s gameplay focus? I really have no idea, to be honest. Valve has mentioned that they are working on a number of incredibly innovative gameplay and level designs. I have no idea at all what those designs could be. What I can vaguely get into however, is Episode Three’s list of foes. In an environment that is practically the complete opposite of Half-Life 2 and its two proceeding episodes, the foes present in Episode Three will likely change significantly. I think we can all definitely rule out the Antlions as potential foes. Not only is it clear, I think, that our battle with the Antlions came to a climax in Episode Two, I honestly don’t believe they’d be fit for such a cold and desolate environment. I expect we’ll continue to see Headcrabs and Zombies, though perhaps too a much lesser degree. I think it’s likely we’ll get to fight another Zombie variant, possibly due to the presence of a new Headcrab variant, exclusive to the environment. The number of Combine Transhuman forces will continue to diminish, I think, as their roles are becoming less important, and they’re slowly being overshadowed by greater, and admittedly more fun, types of enemies. They won’t be entirely absent though, that’s for sure. So, the big question is what will fill in this relatively big gap? I’d say immediately that Episode Three will be about introducing a number of entirely new Combine synthetic creatures, which I believe to be far more interesting than human enemies anyway. Then I’d say there’s also going to be enemies on the Borealis, which will be Aperture based. Can’t really say too much of what exactly we can expect to see on the Borealis in regards to enemies. Far too in the dark.

Following the formula of Episodes One and Two, I think Episode Three will be split into two distinct halves. Episode One had us in the Citadel for half of the game, and escaping City 17 in the other half. Episode Two has us in the Antlion Nests for half of the game, and in and around White Forest in the other half. I expect Episode Three will have us travelling to the Borealis in the first half, and us on the Borealis in the second half. I think the first half of the game may culminate in us reaching the base Mossman was at, which we see in her short transmission. I honestly and completely believe that the base is a re-conceptualised version of Kraken base from the old beta versions of Half-Life 2. It would make sense considering that in the original versions of Half-Life 2, Kraken Base was located around the Borealis section, was located in an arctic setting, featured the original version of Mossman, and also came under attack by Combine forces. Not only that, but Valve seem adept at restoring old concepts recently. I’d hazard a guess and say that Mossman is being held here, captive of the Combine. I expect the climax of the first half of the game will involve breaching the base, rescuing Mossman, and securing the area. We’d get a great deal of exposition with this scenario as well; answering quite a few questions about the Borealis, what’s been going on up there, and re-establishing contact with Kleiner and Magnusson at White Forest. We’d also get to see Mossman’s reactions to Eli’s death which I think could be very powerful. I have a strong feeling this is the part of the game where Barney will return, who I think may have been prepping an assault on the base just before Gordon and Alyx arrive.

Barney! I don’t think there’d be very much to tell about Barney. I expect he’s been resting for quite a while following his departure from City 17. He’d bloody deserve it anyway. I expect that if he were to return at this point in the game, he would have been in contact with White Forest recently. He would have been told of Eli’s death and exactly what was going on. I think he would have then decided to move in Gordon and Alyx’s general direction after speaking to Kleiner and Magnusson. That’d be it, really. :D

Following everything that occurs at Kraken base, I expect Alyx would stay with Mossman at the base. Don’t know why. I’ve just got that feeling. I can’t really back that up with any evidence. Though I’m sure some people would love that, no matter what the reason. At this point in time, I don’t think Alyx will be around until the climax of the episode. I expect the second half of the game will have us venturing forth on our own, perhaps aided at certain times by Barney, who I expect may have the spotlight in regards to AI Companionship in Episode Three.

This is where things become really vague and uncertain. I really have no idea what to except upon reaching the Borealis, except a large Combine force accompanied by dozens of Advisors who have literally colonised the ship and have already begun exploiting it. The final portion of the game, I expect, will have us boarding the ship and taking it by force. We’d then have to take control of the vessel, receive more exposition, and have a final battle await us. Not sure how this would work. Perhaps defend the ship from oncoming Combine forces? Possibly something along the lines of the battle that took place at Weather Control in early Half-Life 2 drafts? I don’t know. Pretty sure Alyx and Mossman would return at this point. I expect this will be where we finally have our much, MUCH needed confrontation with some Advisors; and hopefully the Advisor that killed Eli. Furthermore, I honestly believe Mossman will die at this point. Sacrificing herself, no doubt, for the greater good. I’ve also got a bit of a bad feeling about DOG. Not too sure how he’d return, but well...he’s got to hasn’t he? Notice how all my combat scenarios are ‘offensive’ strategies? I only just noticed that actually. But I think that may be the case anyway. Episode One was about fleeing. Episode Two seemed to be about defence. Naturally I would think Episode Three would be about offence. Anyway...

There are still a number of important things that I’ve left out of this outline, simply because I’ve found no place for them yet. How will the G-Man, for example, reappear and play his usual manipulative all-knowing self? Hard to say. We’ll definetly have one confrontation with him no doubt in the game’s final moments. A second confrontation with him may be possible, though that may hinder certain necessary narrative goals throughout the game. If we do have a second confrontation with him, it will either occur at the very beginning of Episode Three, or perhaps once we reach Kraken base. However, I’m more inclined to believe we’ll only confront him once. No doubt we’ll see him lurking about watching us as usual though.

Ummmm...the Advisors come next on my list of things I’ve neglected to get into. I can honestly say I have absolutely no idea how we’ll fight them. I expect the Vortigaunts will play a big role in that. They have an obvious history, made clear through the Vortigaunts peculiar name for the Advisors; Shu’ulathoi. That’s as far as I can speculate on the matter at this point. Furthermore, I think the Vortigaunts will have an ever consistent presence in the game, aiding us in the game’s biggest skirmishes.

Next would be the Borealis. What exactly can we expect to find on there? Definetly some incredibly advanced portal technology that can either make or break Humanity’s future. Other than that, I can’t be sure. I can’t see the portal technology being the only thing of value on there. I expect we’ll uncover the details of the fate of the ship and its crew. Furthermore, I’m convinced something else of importance exists on the ship. Another GlaDOS perhaps? Not too sure how I’d feel about that, considering we’ve already had a game devoted around a GlaDOS. We’re probably not going to get use of a Portal Gun. I’d personally hate that anyway. Then there’s Chell! God help me, I’d forgotten about her until just now. I’m pretty sure her role in the series isn’t over. Not too sure how she’ll come back; whether it’ll be through reference or if she’ll actually physically reappear. Who knows!

The ending! Let’s discuss the ending to Episode Three. There are two distinct outcomes that can occur at this point. Either the Borealis is destroyed, or the ship is used by the Resistance for some reason or other. For the purpose of this thread, I’m going to say it will be destroyed simply because Earth needs to be cut off from the Combine, and that the G-Man more than likely wants it destroyed, as evidenced through his manipulative speech in Episode Two. This is not to say that this question won’t be brought up in the game, as I’m sure it will be a fundamental conflict between a few of our characters. Alyx will want it destroyed because her father wanted it so. However, I think Kleiner and Mossman will want the opposite. Despite this, I think Episode Three will end in us achieving victory against the Combine on Earth. I expect that after the ship is destroyed, there will no longer be any avenue for any remaining Combine forces to re-establish communication with the Overworld. This then leaves us with the question of what must happen next? Shouldn’t the story seemingly end at this point, now that we have achieved victory? No, I don’t think that the story will end if the ship is destroyed. This is the point in time where the G-Man will definitely reappear to us, fill us in on certain things, continue to leave many things open, and then take us away no doubt. Probably not to stasis. I can’t see what good that’d do, or what purpose it could possibly achieve. There’d be nothing to it, I think, other than just doing it. I expect he will take Alyx with us. Possibly Barney (well I’d like that anyway). The Vortigaunts will undoubtedly follow as well. Finally, I think all of this basically moves towards the notion of the G-Man taking us off-world. Taking us into the heart of the Combine off-world. Marc Laidlaw has stated that he cannot possibly see the current story involving the Combine ending anytime soon. But we can’t properly continue that story on Earth anymore. It’s cut off from the Combine. There couldn’t have been another outcome; otherwise humanity would have been extinguished by the onslaught of the Combine forces off-world. In any case, Valve have been hinting since the very end of Half-Life 2 that this is the direction they’re ultimately taking. Through having us hear Breen talk, almost religiously, about what lies beyond our own universe, through having G-Man almost take us there personally at the end of Half-Life 2 (if the Vortigaunts had not intervened), and through all the talk about a Combine Overworld. I think this outcome is inevitable.

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 04:48 PM

My reasons for having Alyx go along with the player into the next phase of the series isn’t just because I like her, but because I think it’s necessary and because I think it’s only true to the story and to everything that has happened so far that she has to come along with us. The G-Man sees some very great importance in her. He has made this clear throughout the games, especially Episode Two. She isn’t just a messenger. She holds the key to something greater to the G-Man. “I am not one to squander my investments” and “She was worth far more than the initial appraisal”. I really cannot be sure about Barney coming along with us as well. I would really like that, considering I love his character to death, but there may be no real reason to have him with us. The G-Man doesn’t seem particularly interested in him.

In conclusion, I have to say that a common theme of Episode Three will be about Redemption. It will be about Gordon redeeming himself for pushing the crystal into the analysis beam which started everything. It will be about Gordon redeeming Eli for accepting the experiment and allowing it to go forward despite his inner feelings about it at the time. G-Man knows full well that Eli would do anything in his power to make things right, a huge basis from which his speech to us was founded on. The G-Man knew that, once his message was relayed to Eli, Eli would have a very specific reaction; and that reaction is to have the ship destroyed; which is exactly what the G-Man wants!

Anyway....this is getting too long. Please comment. Please discuss. Remember it's just theory. Hopefully you’ll be able to read all of this. If you do, thanks loads. :D

Sasso

01-24-2009, 05:05 PM

Pretty interesting read mimaz. Although a little more vague then your Episode Two plot outline. But we can't really speculate any further...Valve we're looking at you. :D

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 05:07 PM

Yeah. No specifics yet. Hell...nothing I've written is conclusive.

Goggalor

01-24-2009, 06:53 PM

good read. Its interesting to see you finally put your thoughts down on paper. Mostly you respond to others ideas with "yes" or 'No" but you don't really say what is behind your answer. Now we see your big picture.

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 07:32 PM

Yeah, I usually don't because it'd require me to write a lot. Sometimes I can't be bothered. :p

Otto-Grainer

01-24-2009, 08:13 PM

Awesome! I've been waiting for this article of yours for a long time, Brad. :D

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 08:21 PM

It was inevitable. :p

I sound like Smith from the Matrix...

Gmr Leon

01-24-2009, 08:28 PM

I'll have to read this completely, but just glancing over it, Barney caught my eye. Whenever you take into consideration Eli's death, it seems likely that he will make an appearance sometime. If Dog doesn't come along, I suspect that we'll get in an extremely tight situation, and Barney will appear to help us out. Similar in a way to how Dog appeared at the Strider encounter near White Forest.

I highly doubt he'll be with us at the beginning of Episode Three, however, as that would be even more confusing. Raising questions such as, where was he during the final assault? What was he doing? Etc, etc.

Whereas, if we meet him at the Borealis or near it, it can be explained as Barney went along as part of Mossman's team.

Edit: And that's what I get for glancing, apparently we had the same line of thought on Barney, to some extent.

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 08:38 PM

Yeah, that sounds pretty close to me.

Buddy_88

01-24-2009, 08:44 PM

Interesting ideas. I must say that I agree with the beginning part, as I don't think Gordon could have been knocked out or fainted after the advisor dropped him. When the advisor that you encounter at the barn earlier is hurt, it drops you from a much higher place and Gordon and Alyx are unharmed.

The one thing that I can think of that could explain the screen going black that wasn't just an end of game thing is that maybe the force in which Gordon was held may of given him a bad headache/migrain, which the one thing most people do with severe headaches is close their eyes and put their hand on their head for a short moment when they get a pulse of pain. Remember, severe headaches are used by advisors to either stun their prey or to escape. This could be easy to resume with Hl2:Ep3 by having a black screen, sounds of Alyx weeping, and Gordon eyes opening and shutting with either groaning from the headache or the usual deep breaths that Gordon breathes when the GMan is messing with his mind, with most likly Uriah informing you about how and why Combine advisors cause headaches or what not a short time later, indicating that that is what is causing you to fade in and out since Gordon can't say the 4 words "I have a headache"..lol. - Unlikly, but just a thought.

Tannekr

01-24-2009, 08:52 PM

That was a very good and interesting read I think.

A lot of my ideas about how Episode 3 would turn out seem to agree a lot with what you have right now. I would go back and see with what I disagreed with, but I'm not really in the mood to go read it all over again. Perhaps tomorrow or something.

Gmr Leon

01-24-2009, 08:53 PM

Still reading over it, but so far it all seems rather likely despite being vague. I think, from the dialogue we encounter in Portal, that if the Borealis features Aperture based enemies they'll be of the cybernetic variety. The very clean white of the ASHPD, Sentries, and just the general design of both seem to strongly suggest cybernetics to me. I'm not sure how it would be explained, honestly, but it just seems likely.

Not a great image, but these are what spring to mind when I think of the possible enemies: [Example.] (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a338/GmrLeon00/Safeguard.gif)

Edit: I highly, highly believe we'll end up crashing our way into the area around the Borealis. It's how we began Episode Two, after all.

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 08:56 PM

Still reading over it, but so far it all seems rather likely despite being vague. I think, from the dialogue we encounter in Portal, that if the Borealis features Aperture based enemies they'll be of the cybernetic variety. The very clean white of the ASHPD, Sentries, and just the general design of both seem to strongly suggest cybernetics to me. I'm not sure how it would be explained, honestly, but it just seems likely.

Not a great image, but these are what spring to mind when I think of the possible enemies: [Example.] (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a338/GmrLeon00/Safeguard.gif)

Cybernetics! Hadn't thought of that. That makes a lot of sense.

Tannekr

01-24-2009, 09:08 PM

Cybernetics + Arctic = http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Frozen_Borg_Drone.jpg

Otto-Grainer

01-24-2009, 09:12 PM

Ah, I finally read it all now. I really like it. :)

Gmr Leon has a good point about the Cybernetics and I had a similar picture in mind when thinking about the new synthetic creatures. There is definitely going to be something weird in the Borealis that we may end up fighting. It's also interesting to mention the old Beta ideas, and that got me thinking of an old speech that was said by a Borealis survivor who was trapped inside (of course, that won't really make any sense now from this different version), but here is a small piece of the script:

"Some of the men laid out across the ice. Right around then, those warships found us. That was pretty much the end. They pelted us with these... tid pods, then came flying around all over the deck. If they hit you, you were dead. That wasn't such a bad way to go, considering -"

It was in reference to the Sackticks enemy that were eventually cut, bu it's still interesting. I feel almost sure poor Mossman is going to be the one to sacrificed herself, and she's really a great character. I certainly hope to see old Barney again and have a close fight together or nice long talk. I was interested as it got to the end when you said Alyx holds the key to something greater for the G-Man. It reminded me of how Gordon and Alyx were possibly 'entangled' when the Vortigaunts revived her, so it kind of seems that if the G-Man were going take Freeman anywhere, Alyx might follow along, unless she's in a safe place like White Forest.

I can not wait to play the final chapter of the game. It really does remind old players to back in the years when they first pushed the cart in the beam. I'd love to see a return of the Krakan Base or possibly Weather Control as much as I'd love to see awesome new (and older) enemies.

EDIT: Woops, how did you quote me before post? Ah, my timing was messed up, sorry about that.

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 09:14 PM

Gmr Leon

01-24-2009, 09:14 PM

Thinking about it further, I could possibly see the enemies, not the player, utilizing a variation of ASHPD. This would open up interesting new gameplay dynamics and a new degree of difficulty in unpredictability. However, I think they might balance it out in some way, either with making the player retreat to certain environments that contain surfaces impossible to place portals on, or making the cyborgs rather sketchy.

I'm not quite certain how to describe it..Perhaps a bit stumbling in their movement or something that would just hinder their utilization of the portals. Or they could just be incredibly brutal enemies that are inconceivably quick as they use the portals to keep you from hiding.

Just a bit of cybernetic speculation, really.

Edit: Whatever the case, if there are any type of Aperture enemies, as it seems impossible for there not to be, I bet we'll be introduced to them at a distance. Either at a distance, or amongst corpses of Combine forces that had first proceeded into the Borealis.

Otto-Grainer

01-24-2009, 09:20 PM

EDIT: All fixed. :D

Heh, you're too fast in your own thread. :p I also didn't know about what you mentioned, so thanks for that. Anyway, I would like to see some Portal gameplay but I would feel more comfortable if it were more limited, for some reason. Portal has us in a series of test rooms so that's locked up enough but I can't really picture Half-life having a similar weapon and letting us get too wild with it. The enemy weapon idea is an interesting one though...

Gmr Leon

01-24-2009, 09:24 PM

The ASHPD seems far too fun of a weapon for the player to have in Half-Life 2. The style of it and the general appearance of the weapon just don't fit the rest of our arsenal. In other words, I can't see the ASHPD beside the Crossbow or the Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator.

Which does raise an interesting point, though, now that one thinks about it. What kinds of situations will we find ourselves in that will provide us our normal arsenal? The shotgun, the AR-2, the submachine gun, the Magnum, the crowbar, grenades, those all make sense appearing. The Crossbow and an RPG though? I doubt we'll start the game with all our previous weaponry, even if we did just faint from a migraine.

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 09:33 PM

It'll be interesting to see what happens to our arsenal. We may lose it. But I think there's also the possibility that we won't. If that's the case, then we must be getting into some pretty heavy combat straight away. But that's not really Valve's style. They like to start off soft and then work up the pace as the game progresses. But considering this is the story arcs final title...who knows.

I'm far more interested to know what those 'innovations' are of which they speak of.

Gmr Leon

01-24-2009, 09:42 PM

If the environment starts out mountainous, and goes into a flatter landscape with frozen lakes..I could see the Resistance setting up various explosives in tactical locations. I'm thinking avalanches and shattering ice here, to put it simply. Not sure if that counts as innovative though.

Buddy_88

01-24-2009, 09:44 PM

Being in an arctic environment, I would like to see the Combine Transhuman soldiers looking like this http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2517/trenchcoatso4ja2.png
The trenchcoats make it look like its freezing where they are, plus it looks awsome in my oppinion...lol

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 09:46 PM

Blue Lightning

01-24-2009, 10:17 PM

Im seriously wondering if Ep3 is going to be another "Duke Nukem Forever". Ep2 has been out since Oct '07, and we have ZERO media about Ep3...I mean nothing at all.

mimaz98

01-24-2009, 10:18 PM

Dosen't mean anything at all, Lighting ole' boy.

And we do have media. Concept art. :p

In any case...this isn't the topic of discussion.

Otto-Grainer

01-24-2009, 11:57 PM

we have ZERO media about Ep3...I mean nothing at all.

That is because this is a very important ending episode.

Being in an arctic environment, I would like to see the Combine Transhuman soldiers looking like this http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2517/trenchcoatso4ja2.png
The trenchcoats make it look like its freezing where they are, plus it looks awsome in my oppinion...lol

It does look awesome and it's a shame there wasn't a good room for them before, but I would certainly like more than that because just the soldiers with coats on wouldn't really be anything new. Though it will be exciting when we finally get our First Episode Three Screenshot (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x35/Otto_Grainer/4m7j2ts.jpg)!

lerlerson

01-25-2009, 12:20 AM

A lot of your ideas are great, I agree with most of them.

I have a distinct feeling that we'll be fighting an airborne enemy in Episode 3. I don't mean, like, a gunship, I mean a smaller Synth. Slightly bigger than a Scanner. I don't know why, I just think we will.

Incidentally, I find it surprising you didn't mention Breen at all. With the clear hints to Breen becoming an Advisor- his anticlimactic 'death', the AI_Adivsorbreen, him talking to the Advisor about a host body, the original plan for the end of Half-Life 2 to reveal that Breen had slowly been synthesized and only his head wasn't at that point... I figure that we might fight an Advisorized Breen.

Anyways, I've always assumed that Half-Life 2: Episode Three would end with the Borealis' technology, which I also assumed could be used by the Combine to leapfrog onto Earth and vice-versa, being secured by the rebels. At this point, somebody like Kleiner or Magnusson says something about regrouping, rebuilding and then attacking. Humans are stubborn people, we're bound to want revenge. We also don't want to take the chance of another invasion, so I figured Half-Life 3 would see us taking the fight to the Combine homeworld. We still don't know if the Advisors are the 'brain bugs' of the Combine. They certainly are powerful, and are leading the Combine, but this means virtually nothing. We need to kill the leader, most likely. I figure that Half-Life 3 will feature large-scale AI vs AI with Gordon battles for the first bits, with Gordon taking on the artillery, like Gunships and such, with the rebels fighting whatever foot soldiers would be utilized on the Combine homeworld. Indeed, what foot soldiers would be used?

We've seen that all of the Combine's grunts on Earth are simply that, humans. They can't only have Gunships and Scanners and Manhacks on their homeworld, so I hypothesize we'll be introduced to the grunts of the Combine homeworld in Episode 3. That's probably where the zombie variant will come from, as well.

Well, those're my thoughts.

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 12:27 AM

A lot of your ideas are great, I agree with most of them.

I have a distinct feeling that we'll be fighting an airborne enemy in Episode 3. I don't mean, like, a gunship, I mean a smaller Synth. Slightly bigger than a Scanner. I don't know why, I just think we will.

It's interesting that you brought that up actually because I just had a fleeting impression we might see the old Crab and Mortar Synths from Half-Life 2 in Episode Three. For those of you who don't know them by name, they were synthetic creatures you see only once very briefly while travelling through the Citadel.

Incidentally, I find it surprising you didn't mention Breen at all. With the clear hints to Breen becoming an Advisor- his anticlimactic 'death', the AI_Adivsorbreen, him talking to the Advisor about a host body, the original plan for the end of Half-Life 2 to reveal that Breen had slowly been synthesized and only his head wasn't at that point... I figure that we might fight an Advisorized Breen.

Breen is a curious case. I'm more inclined to believe that he's dead. I don't see why he'd have to survive. His role has really played out by the end of Half-Life 2. I suppose it's possible the Vortigaunts could have saved him, and taken him somewhere in secret. Who knows really. I honestly don't think so though.

That's not to say Breen won't feature in the game in some form or another. I've always assumed something much greater existed between Breen and Eli for example that further amplified their dislike for one another. Their disputes felt more personal than Valve were letting on through the subtle dialogue. Pretty sure something happened between them at Black Mesa which we haven't been filled in on.

We still don't know if the Advisors are the 'brain bugs' of the Combine. They certainly are powerful, and are leading the Combine, but this means virtually nothing.

I'm more inclined to think that they are. The Vortigaunts seem to be leading towards that notion anyway.

lerlerson

01-25-2009, 12:36 AM

It's interesting that you brought that up actually because I just had a fleeting impression we might see the old Crab and Mortar Synths from Half-Life 2 in Episode Three. For those of you who don't know them by name, they were synthetic creatures you see only once very briefly while travelling through the Citadel.

Breen is a curious case. I'm more inclined to believe that he's dead. I don't see why he'd have to survive. His role has really played out by the end of Half-Life 2. I suppose it's possible the Vortigaunts could have saved him, and taken him somewhere in secret. Who knows really. I honestly don't think so though.

That's not to say Breen won't feature in the game in some form or another. I've always assumed something much greater existed between Breen and Eli for example that further amplified their dislike for one another. Their disputes felt more personal than Valve were letting on through the subtle dialogue. Pretty sure something happened between them at Black Mesa which we haven't been filled in on.

Well, we know Half-Life 3 is coming. Almost certainly the fight ends here on Earth in Episode 3, with the Combine so staggeringly at a disadvantage. All of their foot soldiers here are humans, and if the humans start to rebel, who knows what happens. I mean, yeah, some, if not most of the CPs have lost their humanity, almost certainly, but as we know, some haven't. And if we start to rebel, it's likely that if we start to win, they will too.

They could pull another Half-Life, where it ends with G-man putting you in containment, except that might anger a lot of people. If we were put into containment again that would probably mean we'd have a Half-Life 3 without the memorable characters the Half-Life 2 saga has brought us, such as Alyx, Magnusson, Kleiner, Barney, etc. I say this because if G-man were to put is into containment we'd probably only come back out if he was sending us to deal with some foreign alien planet or another threat on Earth. Besides, ending this with another G-man puts us away would be extremely anticlimactic.

A possibility would be the rebels taking whatever tech is on the Borealis and going 'screw it, we're going in now' and busting in and having it end like that. But things definitely aren't looking good for the Combine and I'll doubt we'll end up fighting them on Earth in Half-Life 3 again. We need to deal with them.

That's why I figure that it'd probably end with Earth regrouping and preparing to launch an attack on the Combine Homeworld. Barney or somebody overlooking some movement of troops and saying 'I guess we've got a long road ahead of us, don't we?' before it fades to black feels fitting. To me, anyways.

Also, about Barney. This is completely unrelated but I had an idea a while back. Barney should give you a molotov cocktail in Episode 3. 'Hey, about that beer I owed yah? A bit late, I know, but here. Have fun.'

I'm more inclined to think that they are. The Vortigaunts seem to be leading towards that notion anyway.

Wait, I haven't played Episode Two in like a billion years, so where did the Vortigaunts ever talk about the Advisors? I know they did, but I can't remember where or why that would have been brought up... hmm..

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 12:41 AM

They could pull another Half-Life, where it ends with G-man putting you in containment, except that might anger a lot of people. If we were put into containment again that would probably mean we'd have a Half-Life 3 without the memorable characters the Half-Life 2 saga has brought us, such as Alyx, Magnusson, Kleiner, Barney, etc. I say this because if G-man were to put is into containment we'd probably only come back out if he was sending us to deal with some foreign alien planet or another threat on Earth. Besides, ending this with another G-man puts us away would be extremely anticlimactic.

Definetly not a good course to take, I think. As I said in the article...it'd really serve no purpose if we were going off-world. There'd be no reason to put us to sleep for another decade or two.

Also, about Barney. This is completely unrelated but I had an idea a while back. Barney should give you a molotov cocktail in Episode 3. 'Hey, about that beer I owed yah? A bit late, I know, but here. Have fun.'

That'd be fun. :)

Wait, I haven't played Episode Two in like a billion years, so where did the Vortigaunts ever talk about the Advisors? I know they did, but I can't remember where or why that would have been brought up... hmm..

As soon as we gazed upon the bridge, showing the advancing Combine forces. He referred to the Advisors as 'Shu'ulathoi'. To me that name just screams 'original race'. Pretty obvious they're important. The Vortigaunts definetly have a prior history with them.

lerlerson

01-25-2009, 12:45 AM

Definetly not a good course to take, I think. As I said in the article...it'd really serve no purpose if we were going off-world. There'd be no reason to put us to sleep for another decade or two.

That'd be fun. :)

As soon as we gazed upon the bridge, showing the advancing Combine forces. He referred to the Advisors as 'Shu'ulathoi'. To me that name just screams 'original race'. Pretty obvious they're important. The Vortigaunts definetly have a prior history with them.

Well, Valve said there'd be a Half-Life 3, and I don't think another Half-Life on Earth would be all that interesting. Okay, cool, whatever. As you said yourself, Episode One as about fleeing, Episode Two was about Defense, Episode 3 will be about going on the Offense. I see the big 3 themselves going like this. Half-Life, you're fleeing out of Black Mesa. Half-Life 2 is about defending Earth from the Combine invasion. Well, more taking it back, I guess. Half-Life 3 would be about striking back.

That's the way I see it, anyways.

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 12:50 AM

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you. :)

Kohvi

01-25-2009, 01:13 AM

Following the formula of Episodes One and Two, I think Episode Three will be split into two distinct halves. Episode One had us in the Citadel for half of the game, and escaping City 17 in the other half. Episode Two has us in the Antlion Nests for half of the game, and in and around White Forest in the other half. I expect Episode Three will have us travelling to the Borealis in the first half, and us on the Borealis in the second half.

I believe that EP3 will be split into 3 parts. Being most likely longer game, lasting 8-12 hours (first play trough of EP2 takes about 5-6 hours I believe, after that +4) it might make sense. I don't still know what kind of part the third would be; the two you said are likely.

Going off-world is probably the way we are going, but so far I can't see any other reason to go the than revenge. I except we will get more 'better' reasons (not that avenging isn't a good reason). The way we are getting there - well, if it was G-Man to transfer us, I doubt he would take vortigaunts whit us (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm uncertain about this part of your text). As you said, G-Man has neither shown any interest in Barney so far, but that might easily change when Barney comes back in EP3. It would be Gordon and Alyx, possibly Barney, but it would leave Kleiner and Magnusson behind. In Half-Life 1 we were alone, but at some times we met scientists. If it was only 3 persons going off-world there would be much less character interaction. We would not get any news, unless we divided up for long time, but it would make no sense in that case. So I believe the portal technology will be used to go to combine homeworld.
Or then we'll just use technology Kleiner and Eli worked on.

Great thread anyways, I agree with most of your ideas like about everyone else :). If you could link to your EP2 plot outline, too ? Would be certainly nice to read ;)

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 01:16 AM

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588304

There's the old thread. Most of it's gone though. That link that had the rest of it is a dud now.

I believe that EP3 will be split into 3 parts. Being most likely longer game, lasting 8-12 hours (first play trough of EP2 takes about 5-6 hours I believe, after that +4) it might make sense. I don't still know what kind of part the third would be; the two you said are likely.

12 hours is far too long for an Episode, I think. I'd say a maximum of 10 hours. Thanks for the comment by the way Kohvi. :)

supernaut

01-25-2009, 01:56 AM

You're such a nerd mimaz. :p

But in a good way. ;)

To be quite honest, I don't really care how exactly the story will pan out, I just want to play the damn thing. Whatever Valve does with this franchise, I have no doubt that it will rock our socks off.

I'll read it a bit later though, I'm too tired to concentrate atm. Since it's speculation I'm not too worried about spoilers.

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 01:59 AM

You're such a nerd mimaz. :p

But in a good way. ;)

I surley am, and proud of it. XD

surfrock22

01-25-2009, 02:09 AM

Good read. Kept me drawn in the entire time. Some great ideas here.. the idea of Mossman sacrificing herself would be an awesome twist (she needs to put forth a final redemption for what she had done in Half-Life 2).

Only a few things I did not like. I felt Portal was inevitably setting us up for the portal gun to be used in Episode 3 (possibly a test or beta used to perfect its use for the future). Is this not the technology and game-play evolution that will be brought forth in the next episode? Can you not imagine opening a portal from the ceiling and dropping Combine into a crushing demise?

Honestly, I have never looked forward to a game any more than Episode 3. Now I know how those poor kids felt waiting for the Next Potter book to come out..

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 02:58 AM

Valve have spoken of new and exciting innovations but I don't think that will involve the Portal Gun. I feel that it has no place in the core Half-Life series.

lerlerson

01-25-2009, 03:58 AM

Valve have spoken of new and exciting innovations but I don't think that will involve the Portal Gun. I feel that it has no place in the core Half-Life series.

I'm certain the Portal gun will make it's way into Ep3, but I doubt we'll use it. It would not fit Half-Life at all.

But yeah, each episode was supposed to highlight a big, new gameplay feature. Episode One was HDR and an AI companion that you had to rely on. Episode Two was wide-open environments and a large-scale battle. So, what could Episode Three be? I doubt it's the Portal gun, as aformentioned. We have to take into account the environments of Episode Three, being primarily arctic and Combine-esque, as we know.

Perhaps a new enemy that has to be dealt with in a completely new way? I dunno, I'm just spitballing here.

Oh, perhaps we drive that Helicopter? That could be a big new gameplay feature. Kinda. Ah, I dunno.

Kohvi

01-25-2009, 04:26 AM

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588304

There's the old thread. Most of it's gone though. That link that had the rest of it is a dud now.

12 hours is far too long for an Episode, I think. I'd say a maximum of 10 hours. Thanks for the comment by the way Kohvi. :)

No problem, thanks to you for doing this thread :) Any chance you'll upload the other parts of it (EP2 plot) back again, or do you have it at all anymore ?

Solarmech

01-25-2009, 05:28 AM

And here I thought it was MY job to produce huge walls of text. :) Good job though I wonder how you could have left Chell and GlaDOS out for so long. sm

MyNameDidntFit

01-25-2009, 06:33 AM

Valve have spoken of new and exciting innovations but I don't think that will involve the Portal Gun. I feel that it has no place in the core Half-Life series.
I concur. See how the bold, underlined texts contradict each other?

barneyinblue

01-25-2009, 07:41 AM

I've tried to keep my post clean, and short.

1. Originally you were able to kill Advisors with basic weapons in Episode Two.

2. I don't think there will be a funeral scene for Eli (or some similar scene, because it's Half-Life, not Metal Gear Solid). They're in hurry to find and save Mossman.

3. Borealis is most likely , will be under Combine control.

4. Kraken Base, and Weather Control Station have no place in Episode Three. Kraken Base was an underwater (research) facility/rebel base (like Eli's Black Mesa East) run by Mossman (Elaine), and Weather Control Station was a place to control the weather (Combine's not trying to control the air or weather in Half-Life 2 series). They'll probably come up with something new (related to the project).

5. Portal Gun belongs to Portal universe, and should stay there. They said, Chell will have a connection with a major character (in Episode Three) from Half-Life universe (she's probably going to be mentioned)

6. Laidlaw said: In Episode One, we find the information data (in the Citadel); in Two, we deliver it (to the White Forest); and in Three, we will use it (probably against the Combine). They probably changed this, because we deliver, and use the content of the pack in Episode Two. G-Man also loses the control on Gordon through the Episodes.

7. Unlike Eli, G-Man doesn't want Borealis to be destroyed (for reasons unknown).

8. They should do something about Alyx's necklace.

9. Laidlaw's probably not going to let us (players) decide fate of the ship. He said, he wasn't happy with ending decision of original Half-Life.

10. Here comes the crazy speculation: Time travel/Back to The Future series were refenced in Half-Life 2 (Kleiner's Lab). Laidlaw said, they had to remove further references, because they didn't want to get sued. Time Travel theme is also used in Lost - Season V. They might use it one day.

Medic ted

01-25-2009, 12:12 PM

My thoughts:
1.I think we WILL definitely see the return of the Sentries from Portal, cause I think they were mass-produced in Apeture.And I think we'll also see
different variations of the sentry - like a moving sentry or a flying version(maybe on the deck levels).

2.What if Ep1 was fleeing, Ep2 was defense and Ep3 will be PREPARING for offense - I mean look at the situation the world is in, total chaos, antlions, zombies, I'm not even gonna talk about the fact, that we don't know what happened to other citadels around the world - this is no time to attack an alien planet or even their ground forces.The only way I see it, is to go to their deepest core unnoticed, a la Mordor style, that should give the Combine a warning, that says don't mess with earth.For that we have the main characters.

So I think Ep3 will consist of 3 parts:
1.Getting to Borealis
2.The fights and stuff you do on the Borealis
3.And finally you get a choice(a probable G-man scene) - A.You choose to use the Borealis to go to Combine homeworld(or their last biggest base as they are a COMBINED race)
or B.You destroy the Borealis only to find yourself in a hopeless situation(like at the end of HL1)
This choice could of course be left out or reversed(as in choice A. is the bad one).

I actually don't know why am I thinking about choices all the time, I should play less BioShock.

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 12:35 PM

No problem, thanks to you for doing this thread :) Any chance you'll upload the other parts of it (EP2 plot) back again, or do you have it at all anymore ?

I think I might have it lying around somewhere.

Oh, perhaps we drive that Helicopter? That could be a big new gameplay feature. Kinda. Ah, I dunno.

That's certainly possible.

I concur. See how the bold, underlined texts contradict each other?

You're absolutely right. :)

So I think Ep3 will consist of 3 parts:
1.Getting to Borealis
2.The fights and stuff you do on the Borealis
3.And finally you get a choice(a probable G-man scene) - A.You choose to use the Borealis to go to Combine homeworld(or their last biggest base as they are a COMBINED race)
or B.You destroy the Borealis only to find yourself in a hopeless situation(like at the end of HL1)
This choice could of course be left out or reversed(as in choice A. is the bad one).

I actually don't know why am I thinking about choices all the time, I should play less BioShock.

Oh God, a choice? That'd just be terrible, I think. Remember, there was no choice at the end of Half-Life 1. It was an illusion as the G-Man so rightly pointed out at the end of Half-Life 2. No matter what decision you made, you became employed by the G-Man.

In any case, I don't particularly believe Valve are fond of such non-linear game mechanics.

4. Kraken Base, and Weather Control Station have no place in Episode Three. Kraken Base was an underwater (research) facility/rebel base (like Eli's Black Mesa East) run by Mossman (Elaine), and Weather Control Station was a place to control the weather (Combine's not trying to control the air or weather in Half-Life 2 series). They'll probably come up with something new (related to the project).

I did say 're-conceptualised'. I'm sure you would have said the same about the Borealis once. Weather Control won't be in Episode Three. That's almsot a certainity. I was referring to the old drafts showcasing a huge cliamtic battle.

Valve look for any opportunity to restore their old ideas. Epsidoe Three is a perfect opportunity to restore Kraken Base, just as they restored the arctic-style environment and the Borealis.

7. Unlike Eli, G-Man doesn't want Borealis to be destroyed (for reasons unknown).

That completely goes against his speech in Episode Two, I think.

Rituro

01-25-2009, 02:03 PM

Great hypothesizing, mimaz! The wait for Ep3 continues...

Here's a thought for you: does Adrian Shephard return in either Ep3 or HL3? G-Man's had this guy in his bag o' stasis for quite some time now; an assault on the Combine homeworld would be a great time to turn loose a soldier with alien-fighting experience.

I can't see the Borealis surviving in Ep3. Eli wanted it destroyed; as soon as Alyx finds that out, she's going to go to every length possible to make it happen. The only person capable of stopping her would be the G-Man... who can be held at bay by the Vorts, who are clearly interested in the well-being of "the Alyx Vance".

Some food for thought. (Tastes like headcrabs, though...)

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 02:51 PM

Don't see any place for Shephard in Episode Three or beyond. Again, we can't even be sure he exists in the series' core continuity.

joeylawn

01-25-2009, 08:05 PM

Excellent so far. Wnated to comment on this b4 I finished reading....

Moving on, I expect that when Gordon and Alyx leave for the Borealis they will encounter trouble whilst in the air. I don’t see how Gordon and Alyx could be allowed to reach the Borealis immediately via helicopter. I think that defeats steady Gameplay and narrative progression, and it sort of defeats the entire purpose of introducing a new environment if you don’t allow players to fight within it and travel through for any period of time. That and I expect the satisfaction of reaching the Borealis would be greatly reduced if you were to just arrive there at the start. So, the question is: what will stop Alyx and Gordon from arriving there straight away?

That helicopter could crash simply because of mechanical failure. That Mi-8 is very old, even by 2009 standards. And I agree with you, there is about as much chance of that heli going straight to the Boreails without incedent as the train getting out of city 17 at the beginning of Episode 1. (It obviously crashed - and the resulting gameplay was great - many zombies to 'clear out'....

CoDkiller

01-25-2009, 08:20 PM

Im seriously wondering if Ep3 is going to be another "Duke Nukem Forever". Ep2 has been out since Oct '07, and we have ZERO media about Ep3...I mean nothing at all.

It would't be a bad idea though, just put it in the freezer and concentrate in making an epic HL3 that make us forget the existence of episodes. In time people would talk only about HL1, HL2, and HL3 as the greatest PC games made ever and the episodes would be no more than some mods that exist outthere for those interested.

Haydenfoot

01-25-2009, 08:36 PM

It would't be a bad idea though, just put it in the freezer and concentrate in making an epic HL3 that make us forget the existence of episodes. In time people would talk only about HL1, HL2, and HL3 as the greatest PC games made ever and the episodes would be no more than some mods that exist outthere for those interested.

It seems that most users here enjoyed the episodes. They've both very well received by the community and received great reviews from gaming critics, not to mention how well they've sold. Valve appears to be very satisfied with the episodes and how successful they are and so does its community. I don't know why you continue to live in your own little world where this is all apparently a myth when so much evidence points to the contrary.

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 10:46 PM

surfrock22

01-25-2009, 11:24 PM

Valve have spoken of new and exciting innovations but I don't think that will involve the Portal Gun. I feel that it has no place in the core Half-Life series.

I'm sure that, before Half-life 2, if someone had told you about the Gravity Gun, you would have said the same thing.

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 11:25 PM

surfrock22

01-25-2009, 11:34 PM

There are distinct design differences between a Gravity Gun and a Portal Gun. I would have been willing to believe in and happily accept a Gravity Gun before Half-Life 2. Not a Portal Gun.

In any case, as MNDF pointed out, they are making 'new' innovations. The Portal Gun isn't new anymore. :)

Of course there are. I don't think it should be used in the same way as the game Portal, but I would be shocked if we weren't playing around with a new gun that involved teleportation of some kind. Think of the gameplay possibilities. It doesn't have to be used primarily to solve physical puzzles as in Portal.

Valve has hinted towards this being the case.. I think there is strong evidence that something from Portal will carry over (seeing that it took place in Aperture Science).

surfrock22

01-25-2009, 11:39 PM

Plus.. keep in mind that Portal and Episode Two came out in the same package, at the same time. So, in relation to the Half-Life universe, it is as new as can be. :)

mimaz98

01-25-2009, 11:44 PM

Guess we'll have to wait and see. You could very well be right. :)

Lambda Core

01-25-2009, 11:47 PM

surfrock22

01-25-2009, 11:53 PM

mimaz, you had a great outline. Thanks for the read, and I wish we could find out right now. Maybe our assumptions could be concluded with a bit of information such as a video or even a simple screenshot.

One more thing to add before I head off to bed. It just struck me.. we are debating on whether or not the Portal Gun should be a part of the Half-Life universe.. but it already is a part of it (Aperture Science). The real question here is whether or not it should be a part of Episode 3.

Here's to waiting!

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 12:57 AM

I agree with surfrock22. It think that the Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator is as strange as the Aperture Science Handheld Portal Device is. But other than that, I fully agree with your plot outline mimaz. Very well done. I have myself wanted to write something together, but I have been to afraid I would wander away in meaningless hypothesis.

Meaningless? I honestly don't believe any hypothesising is meaningless. It's menatally engaging, no matter how futile or irrelevant it may seem. Good for the mind. :D

Thanks for the comment by the way buddy. Appreciate it!

mimaz, you had a great outline. Thanks for the read, and I wish we could find out right now. Maybe our assumptions could be concluded with a bit of information such as a video or even a simple screenshot.

One more thing to add before I head off to bed. It just struck me.. we are debating on whether or not the Portal Gun should be a part of the Half-Life universe.. but it already is a part of it (Aperture Science). The real question here is whether or not it should be a part of Episode 3.

Here's to waiting!

Thanks Surfrock22. :)

Please God...don't remind me of the waiting. :p

The real question here is whether or not it should be a part of Episode 3.

That's the question, yeah. I don't know. I'm two minds about it really. If Valve want to add it and they add it well, then I'd have no problem with it. But then there's a part of me that wants to keep it secluded to the Portal series.

Medic ted

01-26-2009, 05:28 AM

As the Borealis technology is older that of the main Apeture building(not sure about that), we may see the experimental portal guns there, that may be stationary(like in the first levels of Portal, only that you can't pick the gun up).It could create interesting puzzles between battles.

But I hope the usable Portal Gun will only stay to Portal.

Solarmech

01-26-2009, 05:29 AM

That's the question, yeah. I don't know. I'm two minds about it really. If Valve want to add it and they add it well, then I'd have no problem with it. But then there's a part of me that wants to keep it secluded to the Portal series.

Well there is a way to add the Portal Gun to Ep3 but keep it "safe". All you have to do is make sure Chell never gives it to Gordon (or Alyx). Don't think she would have much of an inclanation to do so anyways (it would be like Gordon giving away his HEV suit). sm

Thurrdome

01-26-2009, 11:01 AM

What better way to spend my first post on these forums than speculating about the next installment in a series of games that I love to play :)

I think you have many good ideas in that post, but I disagree with you on several issues.

To start, I don't think we can say with great certainty that the game will start right where Episode 2 left off. Conveying such powerful emotions of sorrow, grief, and vengeance is a very delicate and complicated process - especially in a digital, video game medium - and one which could not really be done justice with the little time that could be dedicated to it in an episodic game. How would Valve portray the reactions of Kleiner and Magnusson - both stolid, focused, and unemotionally driven professors - without having it come off as corny, falsified, and haphazard? Keep in mind that not much time could be spent on this, because as much as some people value the story-telling and plot development of the series, at the end of the day, it is an action-adventure game, and people will expect more shooting than lamenting. In turn, this would result in said emotions being portrayed without much time to develop them or really set a mood. So, although it would be interesting to view how the leaders of the rebels would react to Eli's death, I think it can be implied that it dealt a severe blow to their cause, and no illustration of this would be necessary to set a tone for Episode 3.

The main problem would now be that, out of the only people who have a remote chance of following out Eli's instructions and destroying the Borealis - Gordon and Alyx - only one of them can speak, and he is the same person who really knows about the history of Alyx (as told to him by the G-Man) and the importance she can play (possibly foreshadowing an important role in Episode 3, such as helping destroy or use the Borealis). Kleiner (foolishly) intends to use the weapon aboard the Borealis to try to further our cause, and Freeman and Vance are the only ones who can stop this from happening. Something tells me that, as adorable and convincing as Alyx can be, Kleiner would be more inclined to ultimately reach an agreement with Eli than with Alyx, and that we may be working against the direct orders of the higher rebel command to destroy the Borealis.

On the topic of Alyx, I really, really disagree with you about "rarely show[ing] her emotions or allow[ing] her emotions to take hold of her." She is an extremely emotional character. She hugs you when Dog uncovers you in the ruins of the Citadel at the beginning of Episode 1. She stops for rest during Episode 1 after the Razor Tren crash, and personally confides in you. When you confront Hunters for the first time in the radio tower building, she shows her feelings of vengeance: "You're not going to get me unprepared! Not again!", or something to the effect of that. When her father dies, she collapses and sobs. I think her behaviors in Episode 3 will be characterized by the same feeling of vengeance that she felt during the first Hunter encounter in Episode 2. She will be driven, focused, and rely more on Gordon and Dog to get through. Freeman just may get some action . . . keep your fingers crossed ;)

No funeral. No need to belabor the point.

On the topic of the ice land and walking around the Borealis, when you watch Mossman's video transcript at the bunker with Eli, Kleiner, and Alyx, you can noclip off the map and walk around that building. Outside is a surprisingly detailed iceland to walk around (note that you keep slipping forward even after you finish pressing w/a/s/d, and that snow is falling around)! I think we're definitely going some place cold in Episode 3, and it will be interesting to see what Valve does with this gameplay-wise. I hope the team-fighting from the end of Half-Life 2 is introduced again, but with larger teams and . . . please . . . at least 1 new weapon :D. I'm really confident about being able to use the Combine sniper rifle. Alyx taunted us with it in Episode 1 . . . we SAW it in Episode 2! . . . will Episode 3 be the time to actually chamber a round and go to work? I hope so.

I agree that there will be new enemies, too. Hopefully some of those synths we see in the Citadel in Half-Life 2, some new zombies and combine soldiers (ice camo maybe!), etc. Maybe arctic antlions. I want to kill an advisor in Episode 3, too. Maybe more than one.

Now, onto the G-Man. He has obviously interacted with Eli, as he reveals to you in the lounge room in White Forest (calling him "our mutual friend"). The G-Man told Eli to "prepare for unforeseen consequences" right before the test at Black Mesa, just as Alyx tells him in the bunker. These unforeseen consequences of the Black Mesa test were terrible - an alien force dominating Earth - and, since Valve says they plan to make a Half-Life 3, I think it's fair to assume that the launch of the rocket and "destruction" of the Combine portal will lead to something far worse happening to Earth because of the portal technology aboard the Borealis. Either that, or Half- Life 3 will be about exacting revenge on the Xen World itself, but that sounds a bit like a stretch. Either way, it seems like the G-Man had this all planned out from the beginning (i.e., knowing about what would go wrong in the test chamber, and now showing that he knows about what will happen post-portal closure).

Episode 2 also gave us an interesting look into the powers of the G-Man - specifically, the ability to work inside someone's mind. We see this when he tells Alyx to tell Eli to "prepare for unforeseen consequences," and she gasps. When the G-Man scene cuts out, Alyx is still out on the table, but stirring - and, later on, she seemingly tells her dad to "prepare ' ' ' ' " without even thinking about it, and then saying "WHOA!" as if to comment on what she just absentmindedly said. This shows us that the G-Man has the power to work within people's minds to make them blindly do/tell/etc. whatever he wants. Hopefully, the Vortiguants will help us (as they did in Episode 1) from being forced into doing anything pernicious, but either way, I'm pumped to see what Valve does with the next episode.

Flame away!

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 12:06 PM

Thanks for your input Thurrdome. Welcome to the forums.

joeylawn

01-26-2009, 02:02 PM

Mimaz, what are your thoughts about Lamarr coming back?

BTW, the OP is great.

Also, the Advisors on Earth cannot now communicate with their home planet(s), but what about the opposite? Let's use an analogy. Say you are a retailer with 100 stores, but you start hearing nothing from, say Store #43? Wouldn't you investigate?

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 02:11 PM

I expect the Combine Overworld would be cut off from Earth as well. It really is a linked network of sorts. Without the Citadels operational on Earth, neither side can make contact.

Ummm...I'd forgotten about Lamarr. Again, I'd have no idea. :p

joeylawn

01-26-2009, 02:35 PM

IMO, Lamarr is the 'comic relief' of the story. I'm thinking they will somehow bring her back.

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 02:47 PM

Yeah, they have to.

surfrock22

01-26-2009, 03:56 PM

Lol, Lamarr is great. And if Kleiner ever dies in the Half-Life series, I'll stop playing.

Ok.. no I won't. But I'll be very pissed.. he is my favorite character.

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 05:28 PM

Meh...I'd be way more pissed off if Barney died. :D

surfrock22

01-26-2009, 05:35 PM

Yeah, that would piss me off quite a bit as well. I took quite a liking to Kleiner after all of the work he had done over the series (technology), and his community announcements from HL2 and forward. He is such a great character.. great voice acting as well.

surfrock22

01-26-2009, 05:38 PM

Come to think of it, Eli is up there with Kleiner. :(

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 06:22 PM

That's exactly what I thought. :p

AoA

01-26-2009, 06:31 PM

I think it will end like hl1, with the Gman giving us the illusion of free choice. we can choose to destroy the ship, but one way we end up dead.

MyNameDidntFit

01-26-2009, 07:44 PM

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

That would be horrid. It was bad enough with HL when they did that because then the next game comes along and just screams in your face (complete with flying spittle): "COOONNNNTRRAAAAAADIIIICCCTIOOOONNNNNN!!!!"

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 09:23 PM

I think it will end like hl1, with the Gman giving us the illusion of free choice. we can choose to destroy the ship, but one way we end up dead.

Errr...no.

ZoSo15

01-26-2009, 09:58 PM

What a great, thought-provoking thread.

Thurrdome has a good point about the difficulty of pulling off an opening scene if we pick up right where we left off in episode 2. But I agree with mimaz, there's no reason for Gordon to pass out right then and Valve has been very strict about having us see through Gordon's eyes at all times throughout the entire series. Conveying emotions like that is not an easy thing to do, but if anyone can do it, Valve can.

I especially like Gmr Leon's idea of fighting androids with some variation of the portal gun onboard the Borealis. How and why there are androids on that ship would be up for speculation, but it would be a fun and exciting new enemy. Somewhat of a throwback to the cloaking black ops enemies in the original HL.

Goggalor

01-26-2009, 10:44 PM

The biggest thing mimaz has going with his opening is consistency. Except for the jump from stasis between HL2 and ep1, we have been there every moment. I find it hard to believe that valve would jump us somewhere without dealing with eli's death in one way or another. They would then have to spend time telling the player what had transpired while gordon was passed out, so they might as well do it in real time and let us be part of it.

noctuk

01-26-2009, 10:45 PM

All the time when i see the "resuming" continuation of a cliffhanger, whether its a game, or a movie, or etc, ive hated everytime, the "non-continuity" new episode. See what im talking about? When at the end of the previous installment someone falls off a cliff, or the main characters are trying to reach to deactivate an explosive, and ...wham! in the continuation the first scene is a quiet working place area, where everybody is busy going about their business. WTF. Like they feel that the continuation has to have its own start otherwise its not worthy.

In episode3's case, since the player is always looking from gordon's view, I would prefer an inmediate continuation, like gordon opens his eyes, and the conmotion is still there, and suddenly someone,(kleiner, magnusson, barney,etc) bursts into the hangar, with 2 rebels. I wouldnt want that magnificent, lsd-trip like openings gordon usually gets, with probably the episode starting with a few words, this time as a voiceover, from the gman, saying vague words like "this is the catalyst of all, this is where we take over...", and then gordon wakes up looking at the ceiling of some hospital-like room, where a rebel informs him where he's been for the past 6 hours, and that he still doesnt know what the advisors did to breach their security and infiltrate. Or worse yet, that they both are in the services branch of a ship and theyre on their way to the artic. :P Oh, and that Alyx is busy in talks with the rest of the rebels and doesnt want to talk to anyone at the moment.

surfrock22

01-26-2009, 10:56 PM

Errr...no.

mimaz, I would not rule that out so quickly. He is right, we did have a choice in Half-Life. I actually thought of this a while back. While not likely, there is the possibility, based on past experiences.

Also, remember that the choice between life and death ended Half-Life. This next Episode will end Half-life 2; we could have another choice to make.

Undoubtedly, Valve hinted at this choice with the argument between Eli and Kleiner (first hint, whether or not to use the technology aboard the Borealis). What if we ignore Eli's request to "destroy that ship" (the second of two hints)?

We may very well have a decision on our hands.

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 11:22 PM

No, we didn't have a choice.

It was an 'illusion'.

surfrock22

01-26-2009, 11:25 PM

No, we didn't have a choice.

It was an 'illusion'.

What? Link? I've never heard this before.. is this speculation or is there proof?

GGX_Justice

01-26-2009, 11:28 PM

I must admit, in regards to what noctuk has to say about non-linear sequel beginnings, that HL2:EP1 confused me. I always felt that for the first time our perspective was ripped from Gordon's, replaced instead with a cut-scene. I suppose it was necessary to reveal how Alyx escaped the initial explosion...

But onwards to the original topic!

I feel that mimaz98's plot outline is an excellent one, especially considering the limited amount of information we're going off. :D
It mirrored my own thoughts about HL2:EP3 almost exactly, barring one trifling detail.

"Unforseen Consequences" is, as I'm sure we all know, a chapter heading in the original HL. As such, when it was mentioned in HL2:EP2, I knew that it was of the utmost importance. We all know the fallout of the original 'unforseen consequences.' Hence, I feel the ending to HL2:EP3 will end in a slightly different manner to mimaz98's hypothesis. Whether mimaz98 or surfrock22 is right on the 'choice' debate, I feel either way it will end thus: in something cataclysmic occuring. You either destroy or save the Borealis, maybe given a choice, maybe not. Whatever the case, 'unforseen consequences' will occur, violently expelling Gordon onto Combine Homeworld soil.

This not only wraps up his story (to an extent) but also frees him from the G-man's influence... somewhat. G-man is portrayed in a manner that makes us distrust him (even if he is my favourite NPC). I think therefore that it is likely that we'll see him as a foe at some point... far in the future, however.

joeylawn, I doubt that the Combine Homeworld can reach us. We know Combine portals must have two ends, because Alyx states that Breen "turned over control (of the citadel portal) to the other side", and when the portal does open, machines can be seen on the other end. From this we can infer that with one side knocked out, their network can't reach us. ;)

Then again, I could be far off the track, I'm really keen to see what others think of the 'consequences.' I do have several other theories in the works, one relating to a parity violation as well!

Oh, and hello! :)

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 11:31 PM

Welcome to the forums GGX. :)

Great input. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think you're absolutely right about everything you said.

If you're wandering what my thoughts are on the 'consequences' in more detail, check this thread out:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=748426

Boff

01-26-2009, 11:41 PM

would love to read mimax....and i want to express my appreciation and the time and effort you have put in...however, i'm trying to keep a clean slate for ep3, so I shall ignore your hard work ;)

mimaz98

01-26-2009, 11:42 PM

Most of it is probably way off. :D

surfrock22

01-26-2009, 11:49 PM

I am pretty sure that the choice at the end of Half-Life is real (not an "illusion"), unless someone can back it up with evidence.

GGX_Justice

01-26-2009, 11:57 PM

mimaz98, thank you for the welcome, and especially thank you for the link!

It answered a long held query I had, which was G-man stating: “Still...I am not one to...squander my investments” in regards to Alyx, when at the end of HL2 he callously seems to disregard her. Your logical line "Suddenly, the G-Man was in great need of the services he was, at one point, prepared to give away; those people still on Earth" cleared it all up for me. :)

Although, I disagree with the idea that "the context of the line ‘Prepare for Unforeseen Consequences’ could not possibly justify the probable existence of any actual consequences." Now, following on only in-game logic, then yes, this could indeed be the case. Yet I believe that the line is so charged, so full of meaning to the HL player, that VALVe has to make an event out of it. It's the very first thing we see on screen after making the terrible mistake to push the specimen into the Anti-Mass Spectrometer. It is accompanied with the sound of harsh sirens. 'Unforseen Consequences' is an emotionally charged line, and while the G-man may have chucked it out there as a double-bluff, I'm not convinced VALVe would.

Still, a fantastic essay, which I really enjoyed reading.

UncFester

01-26-2009, 11:57 PM

What? Link? I've never heard this before.. is this speculation or is there proof?

The G-Man tells you this at the end of Half-Life 2.

"Rather than offering you the illusion of choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you."

I am pretty sure that the choice at the end of Half-Life is real (not an "illusion"), unless someone can back it up with evidence.

Half-Life 2 wouldn't have happened for Gordon without it having been an illusion.
Gordon is there, after all, right?

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:02 AM

The G-Man tells you this at the end of Half-Life 2.

"Rather than offering you the illusion of choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you."

This can easily be interpreted as the G-Man forcing you to do something, or you meet a terrible fate (choosing not to work for him and dying).

This is the equivalent of someone pointing a gun to your head and saying "Do it! You don't have a choice" (with the obvious reason to why you don't have a choice being that the alternative is death).

This is not sufficient evidence..

Plus, if I am not mistaken, you are talking about Half-Life 2. We are talking about the ending of Half-Life.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:07 AM

Half-Life 2 wouldn't have happened for Gordon without it having been an illusion.
Gordon is there, after all, right?

Half-Life 2 assumes that you chose to work for the G-Man.

Half-Life shows you obviously dying if you choose otherwise.

UncFester

01-27-2009, 12:10 AM

Plus, if I am not mistaken, you are talking about Half-Life 2. We are talking about the ending of Half-Life.

So..Half-Life 2 is not canon?

Forget I said anything and you play your games and I will play mine. :rolleyes:

Half-Life shows you obviously dying if you choose otherwise.

No. It doesn't. Have you tried it?

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 12:11 AM

Half-Life 2 assumes that you chose to work for the G-Man.

Half-Life shows you obviously dying if you choose otherwise.

No it dosen't. It shows you in front of a horde of Xen creatures. It dosen't show or even imply you dying. Certainly not when Half-Life 2 comes along.

In any case, even if Gordon had been given that choice, the choice ultimately became irrelevant because either way he became employed by the G-Man.

Listen to what he says: "Rather than offer you the illusion of free choice".

In essence, he's saying the choice I once gave you wasn't a choice at all. I made you believe you were making a choice, but either way you were going to work for me.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:12 AM

So..Half-Life 2 is not canon?

Forget I said anything and you play your games and I will play mine. :rolleyes:

No. It doesn't. Have you tried it?

Yes. It shows you about to be killed my hundreds of Xen aliens.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:14 AM

No it dosen't. It shows you in front of a horde of Xen creatures. It dosen't show or even imply you dying. Certainly not when Half-Life 2 comes along.

In any case, even if Gordon had been given that choice, the choice ultimately became irrelevant because either way he became employed by the G-Man.

Listen to what he says: "Rather than offer you the illusion of free choice".

In essence, he's saying the choice I once gave you wasn't a choice at all. I made you believe you were making a choice, but either way you were going to work for me.

Lol, mimaz, can you really sit there and say that the player does not assume that Gordon dies or is about to die with all of the Xen creatures closing in (seemingly endless amounts)?

UncFester

01-27-2009, 12:15 AM

Yes. It shows you about to be killed my hundreds of Xen aliens.

No. It doesn't show that -- you're suffering from illusions. :)

The hordes of aliens are just standing there and then....nothingness.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:16 AM

Again, Half-Life 2 assumes that you chose to work for the G-Man. He implies that you do not have a choice AFTER you accept the job in Half-Life. This has nothing to do with your decision not to work for him (and to choose death).

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:17 AM

No. It doesn't show that -- you're suffering from illusions. :)

The hordes of aliens are just standing there and then....nothingness.

.. Can you really honestly tell me that you do not think you are going to die?

What would be the point of even giving you an option if this were not the case?

GGX_Justice

01-27-2009, 12:17 AM

Just like surfrock22, I always assumed that at the end of HL, unemployment did resolve in Gordon's death. But I'd never thought about the implications of G-man's line at the end of HL2, and truthfully never understood it until now.

I actually think UncFester/mimaz98 is right, and that ending is actually an illusion imposed by G-man. If nothing else, it explains quite neatly the horrible paradox of Gordon 'dying' and then coming back at the start of HL2.

If it makes it any easier, G-man forced Alyx into saying "Prepare for unforseen consequences", so it follows that he could conjour an image of Xen assault troops.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 12:18 AM

Lol, mimaz, can you really sit there and say that the player does not assume that Gordon dies or is about to die with all of the Xen creatures closing in (seemingly endless amounts)?

.. Can you really honestly tell me that you do not think you are going to die?

What would be the point of even giving you an option if this were not the case?

But that's the illusion Surfrock! Haven't you been reading? G-Man would have taken him away from that anyway. Do you honestly believe that if Gordon chose not to work for him, G-Man would so easily toss him aside to 'the wolves'?

Of course not! He would have taken him no matter what decision Gordon, or the player, ultimately made.

Thus...the illusion!

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:20 AM

Or.. that was the ultimate testament towards Gordon's usefulness. Was he willing and able to do the work that the G-Man required? If you refuse not to work for him, maybe then he decided that you were just a squandered opportunity.

Give it a thought.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 12:22 AM

You're talking about 'what if's'. In any case, choosing not to work for the G-Man wouldn't have been the utlimate testament towards Gordon's usefulness. It would've been a testament to humanity's ignorance.

Ultimately, Half-Life 2 has you working for the G-Man. He himself mentions this 'illusion of free choice' in Half-Life 2's final moments. As such, what you're saying is irrelevant.

There was no choice at the end of Half-Life 1. Just the illusion of choice.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:22 AM

GGX_Justice

01-27-2009, 12:24 AM

Perhaps someone could e-mail Marc Laidlaw, and ask him?

Given the nature of choice regarding HL2:EP3, and that this is an interesting point of contention, maybe he'd be willing to clear it up? :)

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:24 AM

You're talking about 'what if's'.

Ultimately, Half-Life 2 has you working for the G-Man. He himself mentions this 'illusion of free choice' in Half-Life 2's final moments. As such, what you're saying is irrelevant.

There was no choice at the end of Half-Life 1. Just the illusion of choice.

Don't you know mimaz? That's the beauty of the G-Man. So far he is one huge "what if". :)

Everything stated so far about the G-Man is speculation. You cannot prove that he created an illusion, much as I cannot prove that he did not.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 12:25 AM

True, but I am firm by my decision that Half-Life 2 assumes that you chose to work for the G-Man. Unless there is hard evidence suggesting otherwise, which I am still waiting for. Everything stated, even my opinion, is purely speculation at this point.

I'll contact Laidlaw. See what he says on this matter.

I stand by what I've been saying. You didn't 'choose' to work for the G-Man, because ultimately the 'choice' didn't matter. You would've worked for the G-Man anyway. As Half-Life 2 so clearly points out. And simply because Half-Life 2 has you working for the G-Man makes the entire choice at the end of Half-Life 1 irrelevant because there is no other avenure. No other story.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:25 AM

There was no choice at the end of Half-Life 1. Just the illusion of choice.

This is pure speculation, as it cannot be proven. As I have said, this may not apply to Gordon's pre-hire situation.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:27 AM

I'll contact Laidlaw. See what he says on this matter.

I stand by what I've been saying. You didn't 'choose' to work for the G-Man, because ultiamtely the 'choice' didn't matter. You would've worked for the G-Man anyway. As Half-Life 2 so clearly points out. And simply because Half-Life 2 has you working for the G-Man makes the entire choice at the end of Half-Life 1 irrelevant.

Honestly, I think we both have compelling arguments. If Laidlaw says that it was an illusion, case rested. Either way, I know that my argument holds up, as is.

I hope no one has gotten too worked up about this argument, I for one have enjoyed it. :)

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 12:28 AM

We'll see what he says. He's a bloody sneaky bugger with emails. :p

Good debate so far. :D

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:34 AM

We'll see what he says. He's a bloody sneaky bugger with emails. :p

Good debate so far. :D

Sounds good, I'm curious to know.

One last comment before bed. What would be the POINT of the G-Man faking this scenario? There is no logical reasoning as to why he would want Gordon to think that he was going to die.

For sh*ts and giggles? G-Man does not seem to be the joking type.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 12:37 AM

Curiosity, I expect.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:38 AM

Curiosity, I expect.

Curious of what? That still doesn't make any sense. If you can give me a good reason as to why he would create this "illusion", I would be surprised. :)

GGX_Justice

01-27-2009, 12:40 AM

What would be the POINT of the G-Man faking this scenario?

To establish a strong boss/employee relationship with Gordon? You actually denied me, runs the line of thought, therefore I will show you a taste of what defiance achieves!

A little bit of "Android Hell is a real place, where you will go at the first sign of defiance", to quote another malicious entity. :D

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:42 AM

To establish a strong boss/employee relationship with Gordon? You actually denied me, runs the line of thought, therefore I will show you a taste of what defiance achieves!

A little bit of "Android Hell is a real place, where you will go at the first sign of defiance", to quote another malicious entity. :D

True, but G-Man seems a bit too civilized/advanced for that kind of behavior.

GGX_Justice

01-27-2009, 12:47 AM

True, but G-Man seems a bit too civilized/advanced for that kind of behavior.

Then why would he say, at the conclusion of Gordon's 'death', in a mocking manner: "No regrets, Mr Freeman?"

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 12:48 AM

Then why would he say, at the conclusion of Gordon's 'death', in a mocking manner: "No regrets, Mr Freeman?"

Quite frankly, because he actually sent him to his death.

GGX_Justice

01-27-2009, 12:54 AM

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 01:13 AM

Perhaps, yet how does this achieve G-man's goals? Why would he bother observing Gordon throughout the entire Black Mesa Incident only to discard him when Gordon fails a simple choice? Wouldn't Gordon's death signal the end to his emaculate plans within plans?

That's exactly right!

A choice about whether you want to work for someone or not dosen't dictate your usefulness to a certain cause. If Gordon had chosen not to work for the G-Man, the G-Man wouldn't have seen his usefulness as being over. That's just ridiculous, I think.

UncFester

01-27-2009, 01:34 AM

Quite frankly, because he actually sent him to his death.

The thing you have to understand is that what the G-Man says at the end of Half-Life 2 about "the illusion of choice" would be completely meaningless and without any contextual basis for the story unless he is (of course) referring to your experience at the end of Half-Life.

Without that, they are just words of no import -- hardly something the G-Man is likely to perpetrate (i.e., a meaningless string of words).

The fact that it's the G-Man telling you to "wake up" at the beginning of Half-Life 2 tells you that you are still in the G-Man's control.

It's obvious that it was never otherwise, hence "the illusion of choice."

If you accept the story's premise...
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9493/timelapsese0.jpg

...then you also have to accept "the illusion" along with it.

Besides, if you recall the G-Man's words at the end of Half-Life, the alternative was to "...offer you a battle you have no chance of winning."

Emphasis on the word "offer" -- he had no intention of letting you actually die or letting you even battle the aliens; instead, it was a fade to nothingness (stasis).

Bottom line, it is all about the power G-Man wields and he wants you (Gordon) to know it.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiMuvLxiqok

In the end, there is one tantalizing piece which gives your side some support:

SUBJECT: FREEMAN

STATUS: OBSERVATION TERMINATED

POSTMORTEM: Subject declined offer of employment.

I lean toward Valve intending that to be part of "the illusion" as well. :)

Sasso

01-27-2009, 02:38 AM

Im seriously wondering if Ep3 is going to be another "Duke Nukem Forever". Ep2 has been out since Oct '07, and we have ZERO media about Ep3...I mean nothing at all.

Oh HI, I didn't see you there.

GGX_Justice

01-27-2009, 03:24 AM

ASSIGNMENT: TERMINATED

SUBJECT: FREEMAN

REASON: DEMONSTRATION OF EXCEEDINGLY POOR JUDGMENT

These env messages only occur when Gordon has made a choice that has ended his life, or rendered him into a situation he cannot remedy. They do not occur when an enemy or actively hostile environment takes his life. In that situation we merely recieve the red screen, complete with failing heart monitor.

This seems to support the idea that Gordon made a choice at the conclusion of HL, which ended poorly for him...

BUT!

Why then, does G-man say that cryptic line at the end of HL2?

Why would he kill Gordon when his plans are hinged on the One Freeman?

I think these env messages merely convey G-man's observations, and in most cases aren't cannon, much like our own varied and different red deaths. :D

But the choice at HL's end obviously is a valid one, and a choice some players would make. So, how is it not solid evidence that Gordon died? I can't see it being part of the 'illusion', as everything is from Gordon's perspective unless he has been incapacitated, which he has been due to stasis, so I feel that removes that option. Hence, we 'see' Xen assault troops, and the screen fades to black. Here, we get a message like the one if we accept G-man's offer. So recieving the message and changing perspective still doesn't mean Gordon has met an unhappy end.

Therefore, the only damning piece against the illusion theory is this line: POSTMORTEM: Subject declined offer of employment.

Let us define postmortem, shall we?

# discussion of an event after it has occurred
# occurring or done after death; "postmortem changes"; "a postmortem examination to determine cause of death"; "postmortal wounds"

That first meaning, above the second, gives us enough wiggle room that I believe the env message displayed at the end of HL is in no way confirmation of Gordon's demise at the hands of Xen assault troops.

Or highly powered organic weapons. :D

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 03:28 AM

I don't think that message means anything, to be honest. :)

Semantics.

AoA

01-27-2009, 06:32 AM

I think it will end like hl1, with the Gman giving us the illusion of free choice. we can choose to destroy the ship, but either way the gman gets what he wants.

rephrased.

Medic ted

01-27-2009, 06:33 AM

I agree with, GGX_Justice.I think Valve thought is was the last of the HL, when they put these 2 options there.From a gameplay perspective you had 2 choices - to live or to die.But If you make sequel with the same character, the obviously they had to make a game based on the fact, that chose to live.

Only thing we're not sure is, what if the G-man had hired you no matter what you chose.Could the G-man really made an illusion ? Is he even powerful enough ? Why would he kill Gordon after all that time he spent on watching him ?Is the G-man a Negative character or a positive one ? Did the G-man have other options besides hiring Gordon ?

WE DON'T KNOW UNLESS VALVE ANSWERS ALL THESE QUESTIONS.

But as you can see Valve has given us so little information about him, basically we got more questions that answers.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 08:06 AM

Terminated is pretty definite. Good find, that is a STRONG piece of evidence. Still waiting on the email.

noctuk

01-27-2009, 08:28 AM

"Do this for me, or I will kill you", which was basically what the hl1 ending was about, is NOT a choice. Dying is not a choice. It's the consecuence for not doing what the one making the offer offers you. :)

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 02:08 PM

Goggalor

01-27-2009, 02:36 PM

Wow, we really are hard up for some ep3 info if we're now debating "the choice" at the end of HL1.

joeylawn

01-27-2009, 02:49 PM

joeylawn

01-27-2009, 03:06 PM

Ok, sure in-game (HL1), you had the 'choice' of agreeing to work for G-Man, or facing a battle you "can't possibly win". BUT BECAUSE there is a Half-Life 2, story-wise Gordon chose to work for G-Man, and was put into stasis. So no matter what you did in HL1 (I choose "unwisely" my first time ever :() Gordo got Hired by Gman and put into stasis.

End of Half-Life 2 Gman speech IMO:

That "Rather that offer you the illusion...." line is nothing more than just brutal honesty on G-Man's part. To G-Man, Gordon is his "slave" so to speak - he ownes Gordon. But Gman does seem to be apologetic about it - at least feeling sympathy for having to keep him in captivity, until he can explain more, which at that present time he cannot or will not.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 03:06 PM

But, when you lose the "link" - wouldn't they investigate?

Yeah of course, and I expect they would be. However, I don't think they'd be able to do much. Remember, they already know what's happened on Earth through the off-world message the Combine delivered through the Citadel's destruction.

End of Episode 2 Gman speech IMO:

Half-Life 2. Not Episode Two. ;)

joeylawn

01-27-2009, 03:08 PM

Yeah of course, and I expect they would be. However, I don't think they'd be able to do much. Remember, they already know what's happened on Earth through the off-world message the Combine delivered through the Citadel's destruction.

Yeah I thought that the "S.O.S." did indeed go out during Ep.1.

joeylawn

01-27-2009, 03:10 PM

Yeah of course, and I expect they would be. However, I don't think they'd be able to do much. Remember, they already know what's happened on Earth through the off-world message the Combine delivered through the Citadel's destruction.

Half-Life 2. Not Episode Two. ;)

D'OH!

Fixed - thanks.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 03:13 PM

I'm just nit-picking. :D

joeylawn

01-27-2009, 03:15 PM

I'm just nit-picking. :D

Nah. You helped me fix a major blunder. thx again.

Gmr Leon

01-27-2009, 03:30 PM

This may appear completely irrelevant, but considering the discussion regarding Half-Life 1, I don't imagine it will be nearly as irrelevant as I think. At any rate, have any of you noted that the structure of the events, not precisely the story itself, seem to be very similar to those which you played through in the original Half-Life?

An example, starting out in Black Mesa, going outside, then back in, in a sense, to the Lambda Complex.

Half-Life 2: Start out in City 17, leave, then return, then head for White Forest.

What reinforces this though, is just the interesting fact that at or around the Lambda Complex, you launch a rocket, as you do at White Forest. Perhaps I'm just a bit crazy, and it means absolutely nothing, but if White Forest is the launch area near the Lambda Complex of Half-Life 2, then the Borealis is going to be the Lambda Complex itself. Which, as I'm sure anyone who's played Half-Life remembers, means we're going into an interesting new ride.

I doubt we will, but..If it's the Lambda Complex of Half-Life 2, we may get a few more peeks at the Combine Overworld. It's almost a given that we'll end up going there, so that's not too surprising in itself. In fact, we may even learn a bit more about it, similar to how we learned a bit more about Xen in the Lambda Complex. If I'm not mistaken...We learned that scientists had been in and out of there for awhile, right? Could be a similar case with the Combine, or Aperture Science, which the latter would be an even more interesting twist and an explanation for the peculiar energy pellet technology they both share.

Er..Sorry, went on a bit of a tangent there.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 03:38 PM

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 03:43 PM

Consider this, for everyone assuming that it was an "illusion" because Half-Life 2 exists. Is it possible for you to fail in Half-Life? Yes. Does that mean that, it too (dying or killing someone of importance) is also an "illusion"? If you died during gameplay, you get a message saying that you had. You also receive a message when you are thrown into a pit of Xen creatures.

My point is, you can die (and ultimately fail), and if you do, THAT is what happens to Gordon. Half-Life 2 assumes that you do not die. It doesn't mean that it wasn't "real" when it happened to you during gameplay though.

AoA

01-27-2009, 04:12 PM

i think the credits roll after the ending though.

i think i remember someone saying that in hl2 its assumed that you chose to work for the gman. cant remember where i heard it though.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 04:14 PM

i think the credits roll after the ending though.

i think i remember someone saying that in hl2 its assumed that you chose to work for the gman. cant remember where i heard it though.

Same.. I could have sworn Gabe said that during the Half-Life 2 Demo (E3) from like 2003 or so. I'll have to look.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 04:21 PM

Does it really matter anyway? Ok, let's say there was actually a choice. Does it matter anyway? The final, conclusive fact is; you lived. You work for the G-man.

Thus, the choice becomes irrelevant with Half-Life 2, even if the choice did exist in Half-Life 1.

Haha...I sound a bit like a broken record. And this is sort of confusing. :p

I need that reply...

UncFester

01-27-2009, 04:24 PM

To be honest, all of this speculation about the "illusion of choice" is very much like the conundrum of Klingons not having bumps on their heads in the original Star Trek series.

Until Gabe or Marc say something about it one way or another it's up to the player to decide.

Although, Gene Roddenberry did say that you're supposed to assume that Klingons always had bumps on their heads regardless of what your eyes tell you. :)

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 04:30 PM

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 04:43 PM

If we have a choice to destroy the Borealis or to use it, then that means two entirely different scenarios must be given for a Half-Life 3. You can't just go with another 'assume you chose this way' scenario. Because with something as important as the Borealis; that'd be beyond crazy. It's absolutely pointless!

Sorry, flame all you want, but I know for a fact that will NOT happen.

UncFester

01-27-2009, 04:46 PM

Sigh.. you guys are completely missing the point.

Since we had the choice to decide what happens in Half-Life, if I am correct, and I have no reason to doubt myself (see if you can guess where that is from), then we MAY have the option to choose to use or destroy the Borealis.

That was the whole point of the original argument.

Yeah, I think it probably got derailed right about here:

Originally Posted by mimaz98
No, we didn't have a choice.

It was an 'illusion'.

What? Link? I've never heard this before.. is this speculation or is there proof?

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 04:49 PM

Who is flaming here man? Relax. :)

Are you claiming that the decision to work for the G-Man is any less important? It is most likely that this will not happen, but all I was trying to say is that it is POSSIBLE if you look at the events from Half-Life.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 04:50 PM

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 04:51 PM

And to claim that mimaz's post was fact would be false. That is the point of using forums.. speculation and conversing on things that are left open.

If he thought it were fact, why would he have sent an email for confirmation? There is still no hard proof.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 04:51 PM

Yeah makes sense. Back on topic....:p

Good discussion guys. :D

Surfrock...I might just suggest you using the 'edit' feature instead of double/triple posting. :)

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 04:54 PM

Yeah makes sense. Back on topic....:p

Good discussion guys. :D

Surfrock...I might just suggest you using the 'edit' feature instead of double/triple posting. :)

For sure, thanks for the tip. I have a lot to say on certain matters, I didn't think about that.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 07:11 PM

Considering that the Borealis is returning, I'm curious as to if the character known as 'Odell' will return as well.

GGX_Justice

01-27-2009, 07:22 PM

Thurrdome

01-27-2009, 07:50 PM

The ships only survivor?

Hmm... I feel that somehow there will be other, more relevant characters on the Borealis, rather than Odell. As much as VALVe likes to recycle, they've already used Odell's model in HL2, so they have no reason to keep him.

I've always thought GLaDOS or Chell would be on board. GLaDOS in her GLaD form (Genetic Lifeform and Disk), and Chell having met Gordon earlier, after the chopper crash. A part of me believes that outside Aperture Science is where the crash landing will occur.

It will be interesting to see how they incorporate Aperture Science into Episode 3. In one of the hidden chambers in Portal, the calendar of the "Sexy Women of Aperture Science" was dated 1983. Was Portal going on that early? I don't think it's unreasonable to think so, especially because of the green, un-Combinated (for lack of a better word) outside we see at the end and the power point presentations that demerit Black Mesa (obviously way before the portal was opened in Half-Life 1). This time lapse and the catastrophic events at the end of Portal could help explain why the Borealis has attained a "legendary stature," as it is put by Kleiner in the bunker at the end of Episode 2.

It would be cool if we found remnants of GLaDOS or Chell on the boat :)

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 07:50 PM

The ships only survivor?

Hmm... I feel that somehow there will be other, more relevant characters on the Borealis, rather than Odell. As much as VALVe likes to recycle, they've already used Odell's model in HL2, so they have no reason to keep him.

I've always thought GLaDOS or Chell would be on board. GLaDOS in her GLaD form (Genetic Lifeform and Disk), and Chell having met Gordon earlier, after the chopper crash. A part of me believes that outside Aperture Science is where the crash landing will occur.

I have no idea how we can expect Chell to return. On the Borealis seems a bit convienient.

It will be interesting to see how they incorporate Aperture Science into Episode 3. In one of the hidden chambers in Portal, the calendar of the "Sexy Women of Aperture Science" was dated 1983. Was Portal going on that early? I don't think it's unreasonable to think so, especially because of the green, un-Combinated (for lack of a better word) outside we see at the end and the power point presentations that demerit Black Mesa (obviously way before the portal was opened in Half-Life 1). This time lapse and the catastrophic events at the end of Portal could help explain why the Borealis has attained a "legendary stature," as it is put by Kleiner in the bunker at the end of Episode 2.

It would be cool if we found remnants of GLaDOS or Chell on the boat :)

No, that date just implies the time GlaDOS took over that particular facility.

As evidenced by what GlaDOS herself says towards the end of the game, I'm more inclined to believe that Portal takes place sometime between Half-Life 1 and Half-Life 2.

joeylawn

01-27-2009, 08:03 PM

I have no idea how we can expect Chell to return. On the Borealis seems a bit convienient.

No, that date just implies the time GlaDOS took over that particular facility.

As evidenced by what GlaDOS herself says towards the end of the game, I'm more inclined to believe that Portal takes place sometime between Half-Life 1 and Half-Life 2.

I was just thinking about how Chell will be "introduced" in Ep.3. Valve is really good, but they have to be careful not to make it too contrived.

Also, I came up with this:
(IMO of course)

"A" GlaDOS (not the one from Portal) will be on the Borealis. Almost has to.

Why? Chell.

Hear me out lol:

Valve has pretty much already confirmed Chell being in Ep.3.

But what would she contribute? What experience does she have?
Answer: She has dealt with a 'killer' computer, and defeated it and escaped.
Chell just as a simple rebel wouldn't make much sense. Why bother? Include her just for "kicks"? Don't think so.

They'll encounter a GlaDOS and Chell could help Gordon disable it. I can't see any other reason to put her in there.

GGX_Justice

01-27-2009, 08:08 PM

Valve has pretty much already confirmed Chell being in Ep.3.

I agree with this, they have stated somewhere that Chell will be in HL2:EP3.

What I want to know is how are they going to handle having two silent protagonists?

Gmr Leon

01-27-2009, 08:12 PM

I agree with this, they have stated somewhere that Chell will be in HL2:EP3.

What I want to know is how are they going to handle having two silent protagonists?

Having Chell appear where she can provide assistance, but cannot be heard.

joeylawn

01-27-2009, 08:18 PM

Having Chell appear where she can provide assistance, but cannot be heard.

Or let Chell talk in Episode 3. You won't be playing Chell, she will be an NPC like Alyx*

****WARNING - CAT FIGHT ALERT*** :D

ravenwoods

01-27-2009, 09:19 PM

ravenwoods

01-27-2009, 09:23 PM

Having Chell appear where she can provide assistance, but cannot be heard.

Chel's incident probably pre-dates what happens in episodes...plus she was in completely different part of the world.

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 09:48 PM

You have some real cool ideas man...I liked reading it and I mostly agree with everything you said.

I just recently thought of the way G-man appear in Episode 3. He may show himself straight away in White Forest...like looking down from a window or something...we catch a glimps of him...almost telling us:'I warned you about the unforseen consequences' :D

G-Man's message had nothing to do with Eli's death. :)

Chel's incident probably pre-dates what happens in episodes...plus she was in completely different part of the world.

Yeah I think Portal definitely pre-dates Half-Life 2.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 09:56 PM

Chell is the character that you play as in Portal, correct?

Sasso

01-27-2009, 10:03 PM

Yar .

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 10:08 PM

Personally, I don't like the idea of having the story (specifically the goofy computer/speech portion) combining with the Half-Life story.. it doesn't fit.

Otto-Grainer

01-27-2009, 10:08 PM

I didn't think it was too bad, but at first I actually was surprised it was connected.

Chell is the character that you play as in Portal, correct?

Yep, you're correct. Wow, this thread shot up a few pages. :p

:) Welcome to the Forums :)
Thurrdome
λ

:) Welcome to the Forums :)
GGX_Justice
λ

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 10:39 PM

Personally, I don't like the idea of having the story (specifically the goofy computer/speech portion) combining with the Half-Life story.. it doesn't fit.

I think they're going to cross certain narrative elements. That's about it.

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 10:42 PM

I think they're going to cross certain narrative elements. That's about it.

Yeah, that is understandable and fine. As long as there is no song playing at the end of the episode, I'll be good (as much as I did enjoy it).

Thurrdome

01-27-2009, 10:43 PM

plus she was in completely different part of the world.

Oh yeah :D The signs outside are in English!

Thanks for the welcome, mimaz and Otto!

mimaz98

01-27-2009, 10:44 PM

Yeah, that is understandable and fine. As long as there is no song playing at the end of the episode, I'll be good (as much as I did enjoy it).

That, and no Portal Gun. :D

surfrock22

01-27-2009, 10:49 PM

That, and no Portal Gun. :D

Haha, now THAT is debatable. I honestly think there could be great things done with some sort of portal gun, but it would have to be heavily modified in order to achieve a combat level of the gravity gun.

GGX_Justice

01-27-2009, 11:50 PM

Thanks for the hearty welcome Otto-Grainer! :)

Personally, I don't like the idea of having the story (specifically the goofy computer/speech portion) combining with the Half-Life story.. it doesn't fit.

As much as I groaned when I originally heard that Portal and HL2 occupied the same universe, I think they could co-exist within the one game. Now, Portal did a fine job because it wasn't integrated immediately into the core Hλlf-Life story. It was allowed time to build up and serve as exposition to another side of the whole story. I believe that handled carefully, the 'speech' portion could be introduced. I've always felt that if you listen to 'Still Alive' by Jonathan Coulton, thinking instead of Gordon stumbling across it within a sterile room, echoing jaggedly across the white walls... well, it comes off as sinister rather than comedic.

Here's where I think GLaDOS would fall into in the HL universe: something very aberrant, her darker side far more pronounced. Chell was alone in the Aperture Science facility, possibly not of sound mind. What was viewed as humourous from her end could be very, very dark indeed from Gordon's perspective.

EDIT: Is there a story behind the rather endearing welcome to the forums, Otto-Grainer? How it all began, or such? If so, I'd quite like to hear it. :D

UncFester

01-28-2009, 01:43 AM

About Chell being in Episode 3 -- I don't think so.

The only thing I believe Valve has said about it is that they used her for Portal (instead of the male character you see in the Portal preview trailer) because she was a character they had already created and seemed to fit.

If Chell's character was already created prior to Portal, we don't know the purpose. For all we know she could simply have been planned as another rebel or...anything.

mimaz98

01-28-2009, 01:51 AM

The only thing I believe Valve has said about it is that they used her for Portal (instead of the male character you see in the Portal preview trailer) because she was a character they had already created and seemed to fit.

That's correct. That's all they said.

Solarmech

01-28-2009, 02:15 AM

That's correct. That's all they said.

Not quite all, they said they had already created Chell for a future product. The only products on the table at the time (that I know of) where Ep2, Ep 3 and TF2. Chell is not in Ep2 or TF2 so that kind leaves Ep 3. sm

mimaz98

01-28-2009, 04:22 AM

You sure Portal hadn't been concieved yet? I'm honestly not too sure...

Mcisme

01-28-2009, 05:29 AM

What about the concept art floating around with gordon standing by a advisor?

http://www.digitalbattle.com/2008/07/11/hl2-episode-3-concept-art-uncovered/

They have to be planning something bigger than just the ship. A ship is only soo big.

Any suggestions?

MyNameDidntFit

01-28-2009, 06:08 AM

What makes you think they were referring to a product that was already on the table?

Solarmech

01-28-2009, 11:09 AM

You sure Portal hadn't been concieved yet? I'm honestly not too sure...

The exact quote is

GN: The interesting thing about Portal is that we know who the protagonist, Chell, is, and we'd already planned that character's part in something that occurs later. With Portal, we sort of opportunistically said, "Oh, she fits in here. This makes sense."

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3165930

mimaz98

01-28-2009, 03:26 PM

Ah, that's all right then. Thanks Solarmech. :)

GGX_Justice

01-28-2009, 08:12 PM

Goggalor

01-28-2009, 08:22 PM

Just an interesting tid-bit I found while scrounging within the half-life.gcf in relation to Gordon refusing G-man's offer of employment:

gman_noregret.wav

"Well... it looks like we won't be working together.. no regrets, Mr Freeman? But there are.. a few survivors of your personal holocaust... who would like the chance to meet the man responsible for the total anihilation of their raaace."

Considering it didn't make the final game it's obviously not cannon concerning what actually happened, but I find these things interesting just to get a picture of what VALVe was thinking at the time.Ohhh! That is an very interesting find!

If it was recorded, then it was possible to have been in ep2 somewhere.

The question is, what race is he talking about, and who is the man responsible that he is talking about.

I have a feeling it could be the vorts race and Gordon would be the responsible man.

surfrock22

01-28-2009, 08:47 PM

Excellent find. I've never heard of that. Looks like he actually DID deny the G-Man.. (in that particular choice)

MyNameDidntFit

01-28-2009, 08:57 PM

gman_noregret.wav

"Well... it looks like we won't be working together.. no regrets, Mr Freeman? But there are.. a few survivors of your personal holocaust... who would like the chance to meet the man responsible for the total anihilation of their raaace."

What? Total annihilation? Survivors? Contradiction!!

mimaz98

01-28-2009, 09:07 PM

Ohhh! That is an very interesting find!

If it was recorded, then it was possible to have been in ep2 somewhere.

The question is, what race is he talking about, and who is the man responsible that he is talking about.

I have a feeling it could be the vorts race and Gordon would be the responsible man.

It was cut from Half-Life 1, if you refused his offer of employment.

There is a reason why it was cut, you know.

MyNameDidntFit

01-28-2009, 09:15 PM

Oh. I take it the "survivors" would be the army you get teleported in front of if you decline, then.

Makes sense :)

Goggalor

01-28-2009, 09:23 PM

It was cut from Half-Life 1, if you refused his offer of employment.

There is a reason why it was cut, you know.
Oh, your right it was hl1. Damn, I thought that we had a good clue there.

mimaz98

01-28-2009, 10:00 PM

Sorry to trample on your spirits. :p

MyNameDidntFit

01-28-2009, 10:41 PM

surfrock22

01-28-2009, 10:44 PM

Honestly, I think this evidence is the icing on the tall, mountainous cake.. I guess it is not a lie after all. :)

MyNameDidntFit

01-28-2009, 10:46 PM

The cake is a mountain?

surfrock22

01-28-2009, 10:48 PM

The cake is a mountain?

No, in this case, it's an adjective. :)

GGX_Justice

01-29-2009, 12:18 AM

Hardly, it will renew my vigour in acquiring weapons and attempting to destroy all of the "survivors" after declining the G-Man's offer next time :D

Then I can come back and he'd be all like ":eek:" and I'd be all >:D

That made me grin. :D

I don't know why there's all this G-man 'Master Plan' hating. I, for one, kinda like his plots... as a player though. When playing as Gordon, I'm feeling manipulated.

It's a strange position to be in.

mimaz98

01-29-2009, 01:02 AM

The G-Man is the eptimone of Half-Life's awesomeness.

MyNameDidntFit

01-29-2009, 01:10 AM

He is also made of some sort of indestructible alien metal.

I would be willing infer that this is some sort of chitinous exoskeleton that resides over his 'human' form. Perhaps even being the natural "machination" that allows him to hold the human form rather than his natural one whatever that is.

Warning: the above was sarcasm (for you, surfy :p).

supernaut

01-29-2009, 01:43 AM

I finally took the time to read it and I gotta say that it's a well formed train of thoughts. I agree pretty much with everything you said, more or less. It's as cohesive as it can be with the current information available, that's for sure. Although I don't see any point speculating who is going to die and why, at least not at this point (à la Silicon Chip). There's simply not enough to go by. All in all, a great read.

I didn't read everyone's replies to your post, but I will do that at some point, because there's not much to read at this forum when it comes to Episode 3. For what it's worth, thanks for your effort in livening up the place.

surfrock22

01-29-2009, 08:09 AM

Shaun555

01-29-2009, 12:03 PM

"In an October 2008 interview, Valve marketing director Doug Lombardi stated that news or an announcement of Episode Three might be revealed near the end of 2008. Although no new information was released before the close of 2008, Lombardi had stated that the distance between this release of the previous title, Episode Two, will be longer than the distances between Half-Life 2 to Episode One and Episode One to Episode Two."

Can't wait to see them pull this off. Tis going to be Ep1c W1N!

(Quote is from wikiped)

surfrock22

01-29-2009, 03:24 PM

It is great that they are taking their time with this. There will most likely be more hours of gameplay once it comes out, and it will be of higher quality due to the enormous amount of time it will have taken to come out (probably two years or more).

mimaz98

01-29-2009, 03:54 PM

For what it's worth, thanks for your effort in livening up the place.

Someone's gotta do it. :p

I finally took the time to read it and I gotta say that it's a well formed train of thoughts. I agree pretty much with everything you said, more or less. It's as cohesive as it can be with the current information available, that's for sure. Although I don't see any point speculating who is going to die and why, at least not at this point (à la Silicon Chip). There's simply not enough to go by. All in all, a great read.

On the contrary, I don't think it's pointless to discuss any certain character's possible demise in Episode Three; something which I consider incredibly possible due to the finality and extremity of the circumstances and sitations that will undoubtedly surround the game's events. I'm going strongly with Mossman being killed off because I believe that's a fitting end to her character. She's always had questionable allegiances and motives and I think a sure way of sealing those doubts would be to kill her off in some heroic manner of such. I don't know. There's more going on in my brain but I can't quite bring myself to properly articulate it. I'll ensure to get back to you all on this when I can.

Furthermore, I've just realised I left something out of the Outline. I forgot to mention my insurmountable belief that Mossman was once an employee of Aperture Science. I believe that after her request to be assigned at Black Mesa was rejected in favor of accepting Freeman, she went to the next best thing; Aperture Science. I think this could explain her immediate need to go North in search of something that could have helped the Resistance close the portal. Not that she was expecting to find the Borealis up there of course; that was an unexpected discovery. Perhaps Kraken Base was once an Aperture Science installation? Who knows...

Otto-Grainer

01-29-2009, 06:16 PM

And that's where one of the ideas of Chell being her daughter came into place. :)

mimaz98

01-29-2009, 06:55 PM

Chell being Mossman's daughter? Bit of a stretch...

Goggalor

01-29-2009, 07:43 PM

I don't think Chell is related to anyone we've met so far.

mimaz98

01-29-2009, 11:28 PM

I always thought she looked similar to Azian...but I doubt that means anything.

Lambda Core

01-29-2009, 11:54 PM

Furthermore, I've just realised I left something out of the Outline. I forgot to mention my insurmountable belief that Mossman was once an employee of Aperture Science. I believe that after her request to be assigned at Black Mesa was rejected in favor of accepting Freeman, she went to the next best thing; Aperture Science. I think this could explain her immediate need to go North in search of something that could have helped the Resistance close the portal. Not that she was expecting to find the Borealis up there of course; that was an unexpected discovery. Perhaps Kraken Base was once an Aperture Science installation? Who knows...

This is some really good stuff man. I fully agree. Thanks for putting in out in words for us.

supernaut

01-30-2009, 01:04 AM

On the contrary, I don't think it's pointless to discuss any certain character's possible demise in Episode Three; something which I consider incredibly possible due to the finality and extremity of the circumstances and sitations that will undoubtedly surround the game's events. I'm going strongly with Mossman being killed off because I believe that's a fitting end to her character. She's always had questionable allegiances and motives and I think a sure way of sealing those doubts would be to kill her off in some heroic manner of such.

Fair enough, I can definitely see that happening. Would be appropriate. Although wouldn't that make it predictable ? Perhaps they have more plans for her or some other sort of ending to her character.

Furthermore, I've just realised I left something out of the Outline. I forgot to mention my insurmountable belief that Mossman was once an employee of Aperture Science. I believe that after her request to be assigned at Black Mesa was rejected in favor of accepting Freeman, she went to the next best thing; Aperture Science. I think this could explain her immediate need to go North in search of something that could have helped the Resistance close the portal. Not that she was expecting to find the Borealis up there of course; that was an unexpected discovery. Perhaps Kraken Base was once an Aperture Science installation? Who knows...

You have to refresh my memory here, where was it confirmed that she worked for Aperture ?

UncFester

01-30-2009, 01:27 AM

You have to refresh my memory here, where was it confirmed that she worked for Aperture ?

Not confirmed anywhere.

That's a theory which has arisen based upon dialog in the games and the fact that Black Mesa and Aperture Science were working on similar technology.

It makes a lot of sense even without any confirmation.

When you first meet up with Mossman at Black Mesa East you will hear the following about her:

Eli to Gordon: "Fine scientist, Judith. She was up for your job at Black Mesa but you edged her out with your Innsbruck experience."

Alyx to Gordon: "So I see you've met Dr. Mossman. She's one of the main reasons I spend so much time outside. You should hear her drone on about how it should have been her in the Black Mesa test chamber that day."

mimaz98

01-30-2009, 01:38 AM

You have to refresh my memory here, where was it confirmed that she worked for Aperture ?

Re-read the second sentence my good man. :)

Fair enough, I can definitely see that happening. Would be appropriate. Although wouldn't that make it predictable ? Perhaps they have more plans for her or some other sort of ending to her character.

I tend to think Valve go with both predictable and unpredictable approaches. Mossman's death could be viewed as either, I think.

Lambda Core

01-30-2009, 02:06 AM

Mossman: I'm fairly sure I have pinned down the location of the project. It's hard to say how much of it may have survived intact or wether there is anything remaining that can compromise our work, if it were discovered by the combine. We'll need to take a close look at it of course but I should be able to get a better opinion within a few hours.If the site is where we think it is there should be no more... KABOOM. I'm gonna cut the short (?), we may have been spotted.

Too me, this indicates that Mossman had a fairly good idea of where the Borealis where after it's been teleported away. Maybe a few at Aperture Science knew where the boat was, but decided to cover it all up.

supernaut

01-30-2009, 02:17 AM

I guess her working at Aperture at some point could be considered plausible, but those two quotes obviously does not make it conclusive. Both Episode 3 and Portal 2 will undoubtedly answer a handful of questions though.

I wish we could fast forward time, the wait is killing me. Even though there's plenty of great games coming out this year, I've followed this series from the start and it's certainly the longest one I've played. Put me in stasis and wake me up one week before launch. :D

mimaz98

01-30-2009, 03:00 AM

Absolutely, those two quotes do nothing to prove anything. But ah...I share your impatience. XD

Otto-Grainer

01-30-2009, 02:47 PM

Eli to Gordon: "Fine scientist, Judith. She was up for your job at Black Mesa but you edged her out with your Innsbruck experience."

Alyx to Gordon: "So I see you've met Dr. Mossman. She's one of the main reasons I spend so much time outside. You should hear her drone on about how it should have been her in the Black Mesa test chamber that day."

UncFester, your one of the only other people who get quotes right and colourises them. Thank you. :)

joeylawn

01-30-2009, 03:13 PM

When you first meet up with Mossman at Black Mesa East you will hear the following about her:

Eli to Gordon: "Fine scientist, Judith. She was up for your job at Black Mesa but you edged her out with your Innsbruck experience."

Exactly where in Black Mesa East do you hear that? Never heard that one before in-game.

mimaz98

01-30-2009, 04:00 PM

You have to go inside the little room she goes in. Then go back out to Eli. He says it right then.

UncFester

01-30-2009, 04:28 PM

UncFester, your one of the only other people who get quotes right and colourises them. Thank you. :)

I learned the importance of that from a very wise man.

You might know him. :)

mimaz98

01-30-2009, 05:01 PM

Care to mention who it is?

UncFester

01-30-2009, 05:20 PM

Care to mention who it is?

I would, but he is rather shy and wouldn't want any undue attention.

But here's a hint: He has a very welcoming congenial personality and is currently working on a machinima project which he has not yet shown (that I know of). He knows the audio files in the Half-Life series like the back of his hand and often contributes his considerable knowledge of same wherever necessary. He is a fan of Catzeyes' Half-Life site and often posts links to there whenever possible. He often makes remarks about low-quality graphics images. ;)

Oh, and he understands and appreciates the importance of colour in forum posts. :)

mimaz98

01-30-2009, 05:30 PM

You shouldn't have said the welcoming bit. :p

Sasso

01-31-2009, 03:58 AM

Well it's pretty obvious from the start mimaz anyway.

mimaz98

01-31-2009, 04:18 AM

Of course it was. :p

surfrock22

01-31-2009, 11:39 AM

Any speculation on new enimies?

If you have played the Half-Life 2 beta or the "Missing Information" mod, you could see that there were plans to fight Stalkers. I thought it was an amazing feel (if incomplete), but I would love to see more of this in the next episode. I would describe why I think they were so awesome to play against, but I don't want to potentially spoil anything (I also looked for a spoiler tag but couldn't find one).

mimaz98

01-31-2009, 02:48 PM

I've got no idea what to expect in regards to any new enemies that will appear in Episode Three. I think it might be safe to say that one or two cut enemies from the old versions of Half-Life 2 will re-appear, albiet changed slightly.

The Hydra! I've always been incredibly interested in a fully functional, and enjoyable Hydra to fight. Valve loved the enemy, but cut it due to AI difficulties and gameplay problems. They stated in Raising the Bar that they would continue trying to perfect it. The arctic-style environment seems to be the best place to have a Hydra.

Smart_Bomb

01-31-2009, 03:19 PM

Eli to Gordon: "Fine scientist, Judith. She was up for your job at Black Mesa but you edged her out with your Innsbruck experience."

Alyx to Gordon: "So I see you've met Dr. Mossman. She's one of the main reasons I spend so much time outside. You should hear her drone on about how it should have been her in the Black Mesa test chamber that day."

Wow, I never realized that before. Thank you, it's something to think about. I'd +rep you if I wasn't capped for the day :(

Sasso

01-31-2009, 04:46 PM

surfrock22

01-31-2009, 04:48 PM

mimaz98

01-31-2009, 05:28 PM

There was a giant thread all about wanting the Hydra back.

Also you could have it breaking out of the snow/ice in a dramatic fashion whilst doing its screaming voice thing then proceeding to gut you.

I think I remember the thread actually. :D

Gmr Leon

01-31-2009, 05:39 PM

I think I remember the thread actually. :D

I remember it. Someone, I can't recall who, kept commenting on how it would be unlikely for it to appear in any Half-Life installment. I don't want to say any possible names though, as I'm practically certain that they would be incorrect.

mimaz98

01-31-2009, 09:39 PM

I'd be interested in seeing what new Headcrab/Zombie variant they come up with.

lerlerson

01-31-2009, 10:50 PM

Well, let's take a look at what enemies we got in Episode One and then Episode Two.

Episode One we encountered the Stalker and the Zombine. We... kind of encountered the Advisor.

Episode Two we encountered Antlion Workers, Hunters, Shotgun Combine and Autoguns. Again, we 'kind of' encountered the Advisors.

So that's about ~3 enemies per Episode, but due to the long time EP3 is being taken to make, I'd expect more. Probably 5 or so.

Episode Three we already know we'll be fighting the Advisors from interviews, and logic. I would assume that based on the whole Arctic theme we've got going on, there'll probably be underwater segments, and since these underwater segments aren't in the... 'well-kept' sewers and canals of City 17, more of the Xen wildlife that has begun to infest Earth where the Combine aren't bothering to clear out could potentially be encountered. And by Xen wildlife, I mean the Icythosaur. He has a model, and animations, by the looks of it, so it makes sense.

On that note, given that we've been chipping away at the Civil Protection for an awful while now, we might start seeing them start to bring out the 'big guns'. I wouldn't be surprised if we encounter the Crab and Mortar Synths from the Citadel.

Additionally, the Combine Assassin was initially supposed to be found on the Borealis. As we know, when the Borealis was cut the Combine Assassin turned into the Fast Zombie, but that doesn't mean the concept might not be used again. Gordon's clearly a huge threat, and the Combine won't want to send an assload of Advisors, so perhaps an Assassin-type Civil Protection unit isn't out of the question. Bonus points if the Assassin can cloak and we have to listen for them or look for their footprints in the snow. In addition, the Alien Assassin from the Half-Life 2 Beta was supposed to have a zombie variant, so perhaps there could be a Fast Zombine which is a Headcrab'd Alien Assassin.

Again, along the line of cut enemies, Houndeye packs could possibly be encountered again. The Hydra was also regarded by the guy who made it as 'his baby', but the Hydra was decided to look cool but not be fun to fight. But it's been what, 3 years? Surely in that time they could come up with a fun way to fight him, and the Hydra is probably the fans' favourite cut enemy.

Alright, well, in case you can't tell, here's what I figure, in point form, about the enemies we'll encounter in Episode 3:

We'll encounter more of Xen's wildlife, seeing as the Arctic, besides the Combine-ified Borealis shown in the concept art, is an unlikely target for the Combine to 'clean up' like they did with the cities.
We'll probably see more of the Combine's heavy weapons. Gordon is a gigantic threat, and he cannot be allowed to screw with the Borealis. Or at least, that's what I would assume the Combine are thinking. So I'd imagine more firepower used against Gordon.
Cut enemies from the HL2 Beta could potentially make a return. A number of the cut enemies were cut due to them not really fitting in C17's Atmosphere, right? But we're not in, or even around C17 anymore.

mimaz98

02-01-2009, 12:03 AM

Sasso

02-01-2009, 12:21 AM

lerlerson

02-01-2009, 12:33 AM

Generally agree with everything you just said Lerlerson, but I honestly believe the old days of encountering Xen creatures such as Houndeyes and Bullsquids are long gone. It's retrogressive. They have no place in the story and the environment. We're moving towards bigger and newer things. Not moving backwards to older, less interesting things.

We encountered the Strider in Half-Life 2 as well. :p

Wait, not Strider. I meant Stalker. My bad.

And anyways, I don't expect us to fight in the Arctic wasteland itself for very long, probably only a little while because I'm of the opinion that we'll somehow get shot down on our way there.

Now, we know that the Xen wildlife has begun to inhabit Earth. We've seen the Icythosaur, so we know that is inhabiting Earth for sure. It might give the story a bit more flavor to show that the Xen wildlife is definitely settling in on Earth. Right now, we've only seen the barnacle, the headcrabs and the antlions. Surely there's more. Well, we've also seen the Icythosaur and Vortigaunts, I guess.

mimaz98

02-01-2009, 12:33 AM

You can have both old and new enemies. No harm there and it pleases all the fans.

Yeah, let's bring back Houndeyes and Bullsquids after a 3 game, 7+ year absence simply for nostalgia.

Sorry but it dosen't work that way. There was a reason why they were cut from Half-Life 2 in the first place.

Sasso

02-01-2009, 12:35 AM

You can look at it from a narrative point of view. Why wouldn't houndeyes etc etc be in the wilderness? Like I said: It fits the narrative and doesn't harm the gameplay to have old and new enemies.

mimaz98

02-01-2009, 12:38 AM

Sasso

02-01-2009, 12:41 AM

I suppose.

lerlerson

02-01-2009, 01:06 AM

Story? You're talking about a barren frozen wasteland. I don't see Houndeyes surviving in such an environment. So no, Sasso, it dosen't fit the narrative and as I said plainly before, using such old, outdated enemies is retrogressive. So it is a problem for gameplay.

We are moving onward. Not backward. The Combine is the focus here. Humanity and Xen are moving to the wayside.

Chances are, and I'm 99 percent sure of this, we will never see them again!!
Houndeyes surviving in a barren frozen wasteland?

I dunno about you, but Xen didn't seem all that warm to me.

Also, the Xen creatures were removed from the narrative, I believe, because they didn't fit in City 17. The Headcrabs are used as biological weapons, and Barnacles are used to keep civilians from fleeing, hence why we even see them in the first place in C17. Civil Protection isn't just going to let them roam free.

Now, the areas outside, away from the cities, are a different story. Antlions, Icythosaurs. Clearly not indigenous Earth creatures, yet we know they exist out there, where the Combine haven't bothered to clear them out.

mimaz98

02-01-2009, 01:10 AM

Of all the games in the Half-Life 2 series to possibly feature old Xen creatures, I always assumed Episode Two was the most likely candidate. It didn't. I don't expect that'll change.

lerlerson

02-01-2009, 01:41 AM

Of all the games in the Half-Life 2 series to possibly feature old Xen creatures, I always assumed Episode Two was the most likely candidate. It didn't. I don't expect that'll change.
That's true, but keep in mind, the areas in Episode 2 clearly had Combine presence, no matter how minute it was. On top of that, the area was heavily populated by Antlions and Zombies, so it's not that hard to imagine that there were Xen aliens there, but they were killed.

surfrock22

02-01-2009, 11:08 AM

As long as there are at least a few new enemies and huge battles where the Combine are fighting Xen creatures (watching AI battles has always been one of the reasons why the Half-Life series has been so great), I will be pretty happy.

Also, I would love to fight humans, like in Half-Life. What if there was another group who found out that Gordon and the rest of the resistance plan to destroy the Borealis and decided to try to save it? This group could be a branch of the resistance that has broken off to defy Gordon's plans to destroy the ship. They believe that the prize of saving the Borealis is so great that they are willing to destroy anything that gets in their way.

Or there could be groups without masks that work for the Combine (hired assassins to take down Gordon?) who are only looking to get paid, or some other personal prize, such as more power in the Combine ranks.

mimaz98

02-01-2009, 11:58 AM

Also, I would love to fight humans, like in Half-Life. What if there was another group who found out that Gordon and the rest of the resistance plan to destroy the Borealis and decided to try to save it? This group could be a branch of the resistance that has broken off to defy Gordon's plans to destroy the ship. They believe that the prize of saving the Borealis is so great that they are willing to destroy anything that gets in their way.

That is a very interesting idea Surfrock.

surfrock22

02-01-2009, 01:19 PM

Thanks, I think the argument between Kleiner and Eli makes for a lot of interesting gameplay ideas.

In Half-Life, I felt that the human combat was one of the best parts of the game. Would love for them to bring that back.

I was thinking about a way for them to bring back the military (which if possible, would be amazing), but after giving it some thought I don't think that would be possible in this time period (seems to be non-existent now).

Otto-Grainer

02-01-2009, 04:22 PM

Some would also say they miss combat with the more 'intelligent' alien beings, such as the Alien Grunt or Slave, but for human fighting however, I would basically say the Soldiers are good enough myself.

Also, I would love to fight humans, like in Half-Life. What if there was another group who found out that Gordon and the rest of the resistance plan to destroy the Borealis and decided to try to save it? This group could be a branch of the resistance that has broken off to defy Gordon's plans to destroy the ship. They believe that the prize of saving the Borealis is so great that they are willing to destroy anything that gets in their way.

Or there could be groups without masks that work for the Combine (hired assassins to take down Gordon?) who are only looking to get paid, or some other personal prize, such as more power in the Combine ranks.
It is interesting, but I do believe it is unlikely. The second idea seems to go against the way the Combine deals with things like that, unless they were cunning enough to have it a surprised attack, and let Freeman get ambushed by what he thought were allies.

Thanks, I think the argument between Kleiner and Eli makes for a lot of interesting gameplay ideas.
Also interesting, but Kleiner is far too dedicated to Eli and certainly wouldn't go against his last dieing wish to keep it as a weapon. I think I might be more in favor of someone already on the Combine's side to order rebels to defend it, or even just the Combine bounty job at most rather than Kleiner turning against it. I can't even imagine the evil rebels anyway. :p

I would also feel terrible to kill someone who wants something for the exact same purpose as we do, to destroy the main enemy.

user_name

02-01-2009, 06:43 PM

lerlerson

02-01-2009, 06:50 PM

Regarding the plot of Half-Life 3- leaving the planet to fight the Combine on their homeworld- it does make sense, story wise, however, I'm not too keen on it game play wise.

One of the reasons I love the HL series is because of the many different types of enemies- one of those types, a type that has been with the series since the first game, is human. I really love the human gun fights, as they break up the uneven and irregular battles between Gordon and aliens with clean-cut, human gun battles, as well as create a source of ammo. This is something that would seem hard to work in in a game who's entirety takes place on an alien home-world.
Well, is it all that hard for the alien homeworld to, you know, have human-like aliens?

Keep in mind that the Combine Homeworld is definitely not Xen, and the Headcrabs are native to Xen, not the Homeworld (as far as we know.). We don't know what the Combine's master race is. We can assume it's the Advisors, but we still have no idea what's actually at the Homeworld. It could be human-like grunts, like the Alien Assassin from Beta, for all we know. Or the Cremator.

surfrock22

02-01-2009, 07:34 PM

Some would also say they miss combat with the more 'intelligent' alien beings, such as the Alien Grunt or Slave, but for human fighting however, I would basically say the Soldiers are good enough myself.

It is interesting, but I do believe it is unlikely. The second idea seems to go against the way the Combine deals with things like that, unless they were cunning enough to have it a surprised attack, and let Freeman get ambushed by what he thought were allies.

Also interesting, but Kleiner is far too dedicated to Eli and certainly wouldn't go against his last dieing wish to keep it as a weapon. I think I might be more in favor of someone already on the Combine's side to order rebels to defend it, or even just the Combine bounty job at most rather than Kleiner turning against it. I can't even imagine the evil rebels anyway. :p

I would also feel terrible to kill someone who wants something for the exact same purpose as we do, to destroy the main enemy.

Keep in mind who Breen is. He is tricked into thinking he has some sort of control on Earth (instead, the Combine have direct control over him). Others could follow the same path and try to gain more power by working with the Combine.

Also, Kleiner's weakness consists of his own scientific curiosity. Although he was good friends with Eli, his own research and fascination with technology consumes him. If he truly believes that the technology could be used against the Combine, he will go with his instincts, even with Eli's warnings.

mimaz98

02-01-2009, 08:49 PM

Regarding the plot of Half-Life 3- leaving the planet to fight the Combine on their homeworld- it does make sense, story wise, however, I'm not too keen on it game play wise.

I really believe that for Valve, the artistic and technical possibilities of going off-world are really limtless and inspiring. It'd bring a new freshness to the series, moving away from what we've grown comfortable to. Earth is a lovely setting. I understand why some people would like to stay there. But continuing the story of the Combine after Episode Three demands for a more a centralised setting, and Earth is far from being the centre of the Combine's activities.

user_name

02-01-2009, 11:00 PM

Well, is it all that hard for the alien homeworld to, you know, have human-like aliens?

Keep in mind that the Combine Homeworld is definitely not Xen, and the Headcrabs are native to Xen, not the Homeworld (as far as we know.). We don't know what the Combine's master race is. We can assume it's the Advisors, but we still have no idea what's actually at the Homeworld. It could be human-like grunts, like the Alien Assassin from Beta, for all we know. Or the Cremator.

I really believe that for Valve, the artistic and technical possibilities of going off-world are really limtless and inspiring. It'd bring a new freshness to the series, moving away from what we've grown comfortable to. Earth is a lovely setting. I understand why some people would like to stay there. But continuing the story of the Combine after Episode Three demands for a more a centralised setting, and Earth is far from being the centre of the Combine's activities.

I suppose you're right. I just have an image of Xen in my head. Not that Xen wasn't an awesome segment of HL, but it would have made a bland game, if that were the only aspect of it.

mimaz98

02-01-2009, 11:04 PM

Xen was something that was concieved and put into practise over a decade ago. Games and technolgoy have evolved drastically since then.

surfrock22

02-01-2009, 11:34 PM

I really believe that for Valve, the artistic and technical possibilities of going off-world are really limtless and inspiring. It'd bring a new freshness to the series, moving away from what we've grown comfortable to. Earth is a lovely setting. I understand why some people would like to stay there. But continuing the story of the Combine after Episode Three demands for a more a centralised setting, and Earth is far from being the centre of the Combine's activities.

Well, I hope that the Combine's homeworld is much more gameplay friendly than Xen. Though, I think Valve has learned from their experience and will make sure that the next setting will be fun to play.

mimaz98

02-02-2009, 11:44 AM

Not homeworld. Overworld. :)