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View Full Version : Buying games on Steam: We need to see file size before purchase


necorium
05-04-2009, 08:14 AM
I love Steam but its got one big problem for me. When i want to buy a game on Steam it does not tell me how big the download is until i have paid and are about to download.

Now i'm sure this is fine for most of you but in my country we get totally ripped off with the internet. Everyones internet is capped (meaning once you used up your allocated bandwidth for the month you can't use the internet until next month or you have to pay to buy more bandwidth)..

My cap is 3gig a month. So you can kind of see why i want to know how big the download is before hand. And my cap is pretty decent compared to some people i know.

If i want another 3gigs its about $20. So some games it just makes more sense for me to buy in store than download.

Please Steam, let us know how big the game is before we buy it...

The_Apeking
05-04-2009, 10:14 AM
That would be pretty nice for people like you and Direct2Drive and Gamersgate have that feature too, though I myself don't really need or want it.

SmolderinCorpse
05-04-2009, 07:44 PM
Yea. That would be very helpful for users that have a limited amount of internet! I hate it when I see a game that I really want and yet I don't know how big it is! Yet I buy it...and its usually 4-5gbs...

SmolderinCorpse
05-04-2009, 07:45 PM
Yeah I agree, I want one!

Grunteh
05-04-2009, 08:42 PM
Check the "system requirements" for the games, it list how big they are there.

necorium
05-05-2009, 12:57 AM
Check the "system requirements" for the games, it list how big they are there.

no that just gives you a basic idea of how big its going to be on your hardrive when installed. i wanna know exactly. also sometimes the DL will be small and it just unpacks a lot.

lordbloodrain
05-05-2009, 01:47 AM
I love Steam but its got one big problem for me. When i want to buy a game on Steam it does not tell me how big the download is until i have paid and are about to download.

perhaps you do so, i don't understand why this is important, if i want to buy the new street fighter and i see its 5GB, thats not gonna change my opinion, i still want the game.

please when you write a forum post don't say "we" you are not speaking for the entire community!

necorium
05-05-2009, 06:01 AM
'WE' as in the entire population of South Africa and any other country were they get ripped off with the internet. Look i don't expect people living in first world countries to understand this,. But its my reality.

You mention Street Fighter. So its 5 gigs. Well my cap is 3 gigs. So it will cost me triple to buy it off steam instead of buying it from a store.

Mangr0v3
05-05-2009, 06:12 AM
+1 for this feature.

Zefar
05-05-2009, 06:23 AM
Even if I have zero limits on my download size I still like this feature.

robotv5
05-05-2009, 06:50 AM
perhaps you do so, i don't understand why this is important, if i want to buy the new street fighter and i see its 5GB, thats not gonna change my opinion, i still want the game.

please when you write a forum post don't say "we" you are not speaking for the entire community!

Erm... i'm apart of the "we" - and it sucks. Not everyone is american or whatever 1st world you most likely come from.

It's really not a big deal to add the file size before purchase/download... come on steam WTF?

It's like buying a game twice.. :(

Skaery
05-05-2009, 06:34 PM
Even if I have zero limits on my download size I still like this feature.
Agreed! :)

necorium
05-06-2009, 02:41 AM
If Valve could add this to steam, it would be perfect in my opinion. Not knowing the file size is my only gripe. I never thought i would like steam when i got l4d but i run all my games through it now and i've bought a handful off steam too.

But yeah file size would have helped. The first game i purchased digitally was TF2 and it took me the entire weekend to download and i had to refill my cap twice. If i'd known it was gonna be 5gigs i would have just bought Orange Box from a store at half the price.

So yay Valve. Yay steam. But please give us file sizes before purchase :)

WildCat_ZA
05-06-2009, 04:27 AM
I fully support this idea. One wonders why this feature hasn't been added yet. I guess Valve are just unaware of the plight of some of their customers from other countries.

If this feature were to be added, I'd like to see it done properly. It shouldn't be static data that gets typed in by the guy writing the copy for the store page of the game in question. Rather, the value displayed on the store page should be calculated automatically by the Steam back-end on a regular basis or whenever the game receives an update. Two decimal places on a gigabyte should be accurate enough for me
(eg: "4.68 GB").

necorium
05-06-2009, 05:48 AM
I fully support this idea. One wonders why this feature hasn't been added yet. I guess Valve are just unaware of the plight of some of their customers from other countries.

If this feature were to be added, I'd like to see it done properly. It shouldn't be static data that gets typed in by the guy writing the copy for the store page of the game in question. Rather, the value displayed on the store page should be calculated automatically by the Steam back-end on a regular basis or whenever the game receives an update. Two decimal places on a gigabyte should be accurate enough for me
(eg: "4.68 GB").

Agreed fully. Although while they sort that out i'll settle for a typed in number for now. But yes, that is first prize. I didn't think about updates.

DaddyCabby
05-07-2009, 01:34 AM
Erm, bottom of any game page... An example :


System Requirements
Minimum:

OS: Windows 2000/XP/Vista
Processor: 1.2 GHZ or Equivalent
Memory: 512 MB RAM
Graphics: 64 MB DX9 Compliant
Hard Drive: 2 GB free hard drive space
Sound: DX 8.1 Compatible Audio
Recommended:

OS: Windows 2000/XP/Vista
Processor: 2.4 GHZ or Equivalent
Memory: 1 GB RAM
Graphics: 128 MB DX9 Compliant with PS 2.0 support
Hard Drive: 2 GB free hard drive space
Sound: Eax Compatible

necorium
05-07-2009, 02:01 AM
We've been over this already lol.

Those are system requirements. Not download file size. Even though it gives you a rough idea it doesn't tell you the size of the download.

Spy!
05-08-2009, 04:31 AM
This is actually a really good idea!

I support.

zskilz
08-29-2009, 02:20 PM
+100 for this feature.
Also from South Africa. Gov has interests in keeping Internet expensive for reasons of greed. Buying HL2 on special might be $7 but we still have to fork out ~$60 for the 9GB download, so knowing in advance will help us better judge our budget.

I don't understand why you have to pay for the game to find out how big the download size is. This information should be listed along with the system requirements. HHD space isn't a clear indication of DOWNLOAD SIZE. You know, the amount you only get told AFTER you buy the game? This info should be clearly visible in the default game page. One extra GB is a $10 difference for us! So, to repeat... HDD size in the requirements is NOT very helpful. And lots of games don't even bother with that...

People in the 1st world should really not boast about how you don't care about download size cos you have 10Mbps lines which are practically free. You sound like the moronic rich kid at school who goes "neenur neenur... I have satellite TV with 100 channels, and you don't even have a TV!". You're just being rude, so shut it. :mad:

In South Africa, we have to pay through the nose for 1Mbps Internet, which actually only ever runs at 0.3Mpbs, and since the gov has monopoly interest, we can't complain. We just have to take it... so, international 1st world users... show some sympathy, please.

We support indie games a lot specifically because they are so small to download. Something like HL2 Orange Box or L4D would be better bought at a retail store since it would cost way too much to download... Something like ARMA II, which is not available at retail stores, is just something we'll never play until steam starts providing local SA servers or torrents with local, faster, cheaper seeds.

kioko9959
08-29-2009, 03:28 PM
Yeah DaddyCabby is right

uh...
look at systems requirements
it should tell you the recommended amount of HDD space you need
it also says it when you add it too cart and prepare to purchase/install the game if i can recall...

Dont mean to rub it in your face but i knew about this even before i was on steam, all games will have to tell you the amount of space it takes on the back of the box, unless it is for a console. And even with the console it will still tells you when you put the disk in.

ITT, Noobs to steam

messatsu
08-29-2009, 04:57 PM
uh...
look at systems requirements
it should tell you the recommended amount of HDD space you need
it also says it when you add it too cart and prepare to purchase/install the game if i can recall...HDD space doesn't matter since all games I've played in the last 10+ years on PC have been packed in some way. Different data packs differently, so you can't just apply a number to the required space to get download space. Recommended space doesn't reflect actual space either, it's a recommendation based on a number of factors only determined by the developer. It could mean there are community created, downloadable maps and they figure out what the average person would download and add that to the actual footprint of the game. It could mean that the average player uses savestates every so often and savestates take ~500KB each for game X, etc.

I have a 50GB limit and while I don't really have to monitor what I download, it would be nice to know how long it's going to take based on size. I don't think Steam even lets you know how large a forced update will be...

WildCat_ZA
08-31-2009, 05:21 AM
Yeah DaddyCabby is right

uh...
look at systems requirements
it should tell you the recommended amount of HDD space you need
it also says it when you add it too cart and prepare to purchase/install the game if i can recall...

Dont mean to rub it in your face but i knew about this even before i was on steam, all games will have to tell you the amount of space it takes on the back of the box, unless it is for a console. And even with the console it will still tells you when you put the disk in.

ITT, Noobs to steam

Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you! :rolleyes:

FFS, dude ... Several people have already posted in this thread explaining quite clearly how a game's system requirement for hard-drive space is NOT necessarily the same amount that will be downloaded.

Steedus
09-01-2009, 06:36 AM
lol it's different to the installed size. I'd love this feature as i'm on a limited account too. An example of varying sizes: I just bought COD World at War. It says the recommended HDD space is 8GB but the download is 10GB because it comes with extra content apparently. And some games like Half-Life 2 etc dont even list HDD space requirements.

Überlulz
09-01-2009, 10:47 AM
+1 on this feature. I live in Canada, but about a year ago our main internet provider started putting bandwidth limits on the packages. It is 40$/month for a 30kb/s speed and 20gb per month. I have no idea how much it costs if you go over the limit though. Its already expensive as hell even for the cheaper service and a complete rip off. A feature like this would be really good

Timmos
09-01-2009, 11:08 AM
'WE' as in the entire population of South Africa and any other country were they get ripped off with the internet. Look i don't expect people living in first world countries to understand this,. But its my reality.

You mention Street Fighter. So its 5 gigs. Well my cap is 3 gigs. So it will cost me triple to buy it off steam instead of buying it from a store.
Damn, 3 gigabyte! That's even (much) worse than Belgium!

zskilz
09-01-2009, 12:44 PM
Direct2Drive has this feature...

Please kioko9959 and DaddyCabby, go there for yourself to see how HDD size spec is completely different from download file size. This will put the argument to rest...

eg. http://www.direct2drive.com/2/5239/product/Buy-Call-of-Duty-4:-Modern-Warfare-Download

See how it says 8GB free HDD requirement?
Now, see how the download file size is 6.3GB?

OK kioko9959 and DaddyCabby, since you kinda come cross as, not to rub your face in it, not clever, or maybe you can't read so good, I'm going to assume that you don't do math either, so let me do that for you:
8Gb - 6.3Gb = 1.7Gb
What that means is that there is a 1.7Gb difference between HDD spec and actual download size.
Are you following?
What this means is that there is about a $17 difference in Internet cost where I come from between what you suggest and what you actually get. Now maybe $17 is nothing to you, but it is quite a bit of money to me and might make the difference between whether I want to buy the title or not.

Do you get it now? If not, go to the beginning of my post and re-read it, but slowly this time. Maybe use your finger to trace the words and read it out aloud to make sure you understand everything. Feel free to ask questions if you don't understand... I'm here to help.

I suggest people from countries with restrictive/expensive Internet rather shop at D2D for the bigger titles until steam develops the technical know-how to catch up with them.

SacredG
09-01-2009, 06:39 PM
It would be nice. But every single game on steam(besides mods) are over a gigabyte big. It's OBVIOUS.

DarCowAlways
09-01-2009, 08:42 PM
Even if I have zero limits on my download size I still like this feature.

Yes, it would be very neat just to see how big it comes out to for the total download, and get a good idea how long it will take.

DarCowAlways
09-01-2009, 08:43 PM
It would be nice. But every single game on steam(besides mods) are over a gigabyte big. It's OBVIOUS.

I'm sure there are plenty of old old old games re-released on steam under 1GB, but valid point, 3GB won't cut it for modern games downloaded over the internets... looks like you'll have to buy them as hard copies in the store.

If I were you, 3GB cap wouldn't cut it, I'd move :eek:

amnesiasoft
09-01-2009, 09:45 PM
Do I need to smack some people? Can we at least get terminology right. Data Transfer Cap. Not Bandwidth Limit. Bandwidth is the rate at which you can transfer data. Transfer is the actual amount of data you sent.

In South Africa, we have to pay through the nose for 1Mbps Internet, which actually only ever runs at 0.3Mpbs
Those number leave me under the impression you don't understand that bandwidth is generally measured as bits rather than bytes. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you're getting exactly what you're paying for.

Anyway, I have nothing of actual value to add to this conversation.

ngwoo
09-01-2009, 09:46 PM
OP, is satellite internet an option? As far as I know, it works pretty much anywhere in the world. It suffers from a very slow upload rate, but I think the data transfer caps are much higher.

zskilz
09-02-2009, 01:23 AM
Do I need to smack some people? Can we at least get terminology right. Data Transfer Cap. Not Bandwidth Limit. Bandwidth is the rate at which you can transfer data. Transfer is the actual amount of data you sent.


Those number leave me under the impression you don't understand that bandwidth is generally measured as bits rather than bytes. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you're getting exactly what you're paying for.

Anyway, I have nothing of actual value to add to this conversation.

Actually, cap is measured in bits or bytes. Transfer is measured in bits PER SECOND or bytes PER SECOND... But then again from your bad grammar and spelling it is clear that you're not very bright.

Mbps = Mega-bits-per-second - the 'per-second' metric should give you the hint that we're talking about transfer rate. Do you understand or should we smack you?

1Mbps = 1024kbps (the small 'b' is for bits... If I meant bytes I would use the standard capital 'B' and divide by 8... Understand?) 1Mbps is considered 'broadband' in SA and most other places in the world, but here you get screwed and you normally only actually get 0.3Mbps (meaning about 300kbps).

For comparison, in New Zealand, you pay about the equivalent of $30 (US dollars) for 20GB of data at a transfer rate of 8Mbps. In SA you're paying the equivalent of $30 (US dollars) for 3GB at a transfer rate of 1Mbps (but actually more like 300kbps). So, yes, I'm "getting what I'm paying for", but you don't seem to understand that it is a RIP OFF where I come from.

But yeah, you got one thing right though; you really do have nothing to add to this conversation. This begs the question: why exactly are you cluttering this discussion with your inane comment? Why are your parents allowing you to use the internet when you are clearly mentally challenged? Or are you just a troll?

Here is an exercise to see if you're getting it now:
1)When someone says they can only get 4GB... is that cap or transfer?
2)When someone says they can only get 0.6Mbps, is that cap or transfer? (hint: look at the 'per-second'... what does this tell you?)

Answers:
1)Cap
2)Transfer

If you have any questions, please ask, don't be a troll and just assume people 'need a smack'... We're here to help you.

Scared
09-02-2009, 01:40 AM
I support this feature, would be very handy (and in some cases, necessary)

amnesiasoft
09-02-2009, 07:00 PM
Actually, cap is measured in bits or bytes. Transfer is measured in bits PER SECOND or bytes PER SECOND...
The only thing I ever gave a usual unit to was bandwidth, I never said anything about units used for a transfer cap.

But then again from your bad grammar and spelling it is clear that you're not very bright.
I'll concede some of the grammar in that post is...less than amazing, yet I see no indications of bad spelling in there. I'll ignore the ad hominem ;).

Mbps = Mega-bits-per-second - the 'per-second' metric should give you the hint that we're talking about transfer rate. Do you understand or should we smack you?
I never said what people were discussing was unclear, just that they're using the wrong terms.

1Mbps = 1024kbps (the small 'b' is for bits... If I meant bytes I would use the standard capital 'B' and divide by 8... Understand?) 1Mbps is considered 'broadband' in SA and most other places in the world, but here you get screwed and you normally only actually get 0.3Mbps (meaning about 300kbps).
As the average person seems to not understand the difference between the abbreviation of "b" and "B," I made an assumption. Seems I was wrong and I apologize for that one, but we can call it even since you're making the assumption that a byte is always 8 bits. While it is usually the case, there are some exceptions. You really should be using "octet" if you don't want to leave any room for ambiguity. I'll make one last assumption and assume you know what happens when you assume ;).

I could also go into the part where you're using ambiguous prefixes here, but I'll just stick with this sentence that merely mentions it.

For comparison, in New Zealand, you pay about the equivalent of $30 (US dollars) for 20GB of data at a transfer rate of 8Mbps. In SA you're paying the equivalent of $30 (US dollars) for 3GB at a transfer rate of 1Mbps (but actually more like 300kbps). So, yes, I'm "getting what I'm paying for", but you don't seem to understand that it is a RIP OFF where I come from.
Well, you're certainly beating me at what you pay for your bandwidth, I get 1.5Mbps for 39.99 USD a month. I just win out in transfer cap.

But yeah, you got one thing right though; you really do have nothing to add to this conversation. This begs the question: why exactly are you cluttering this discussion with your inane comment? Why are your parents allowing you to use the internet when you are clearly mentally challenged? Or are you just a troll?
So close there, but it's "Internet," not "internet." If you're going to attack someone's grammar, try to get your grammar right too.

As for why? Well, it can be fun on occasion. You should try it, you seem like you'd be quite good at it, so long as you don't throw too many ad hominems around.

Mcfool
09-02-2009, 09:37 PM
Wow, amnesiasoft, shut the ♥♥♥♥ up.

Anyway, OP, insecure, sad little trolls aside (correcting him on the capitalization of internet? Are you ♥♥♥♥ing serious? My god), I support your suggestion. While I've never experienced your problem, I can certainly understand the ramifications it would cause.

+1

zskilz
09-03-2009, 10:50 AM
*Sigh* :rolleyes:

I think I've made my point...

Thanks for the support everyone else. Over & out.

StarKillar
09-04-2009, 12:06 PM
I used to be capped, and I appreciate the pain. +50 in my book, a very good suggestion, that should really be something thats always been here !

I am not capped now, but who knows what the future holds !? Also its handy to do a quick mental guess at download timeframe.

[edit]

Also a minor suggestion addition - which the OP may want to comment on, would it not also be useful to have the option to see a 'xxx mb of xxx mb' display on the game status instead of a percentage? Just to assist more in monthly download budgeting !

Tannekr
09-04-2009, 04:57 PM
I support this suggestion.

If it does get implemented, it needs to affect all Steam downloads, whether it be game installs or game updates. I would like to know how much I'm downloading beforehand or during the download.

padlius
09-06-2009, 02:14 PM
I agree count me in great idea

Irishoak
09-07-2009, 09:19 PM
perhaps you do so, i don't understand why this is important, if i want to buy the new street fighter and i see its 5GB, thats not gonna change my opinion, i still want the game.

please when you write a forum post don't say "we" you are not speaking for the entire community!

Because it's obvious this would effect your game-play negatively. I don't think he posted that to challenge your English parsing skills...

Irishoak
09-07-2009, 09:23 PM
Wow, amnesiasoft, shut the ♥♥♥♥ up.

Anyway, OP, insecure, sad little trolls aside (correcting him on the capitalization of internet? Are you ♥♥♥♥ing serious? My god), I support your suggestion. While I've never experienced your problem, I can certainly understand the ramifications it would cause.

+1

Being a tool when you correct someone is a bit much, but being correct isn't bad. The expectations of lower standards always cracks me up. "BUT ITS TEH INTERWEBNETS!" Seriously, the OP has a great idea, and the guy correcting him is going a bit too "forum" on him, but it's ok to expect people to at least make an attempt and not wallow in sub-par.

The_Thing
09-07-2009, 09:41 PM
SC:DA was listed 1097 MB, when for real, it turned out to be 10 GB.

It's due to the compression of the files when they are being downloaded, then the files are uncompressed, creating more space.

phoenix5
09-08-2009, 10:44 AM
My first reaction to this request was that it isn't needed. The system requirements give you a good indication of the size (700mb vs 5gb, etc), even if it's only a rough number.

But after reading the whole thread and thinking about it, I'd cast my vote for "good suggestion". Obviously there are people this would help, and it can't be all that hard to add. More info is always better.

Zedo Mann
09-08-2009, 03:01 PM
I agree that this would be a good idea, but you could also download the game and don't download it until you are sure you have the amount of space to be able to download it, or else download it in sections. For that, it would be useful to see how much was downloaded/remaining.

mrsoftware
09-09-2009, 12:29 AM
I love Steam but its got one big problem for me. When i want to buy a game on Steam it does not tell me how big the download is until i have paid and are about to download.

Now i'm sure this is fine for most of you but in my country we get totally ripped off with the internet. Everyones internet is capped (meaning once you used up your allocated bandwidth for the month you can't use the internet until next month or you have to pay to buy more bandwidth)..

My cap is 3gig a month. So you can kind of see why i want to know how big the download is before hand. And my cap is pretty decent compared to some people i know.

If i want another 3gigs its about $20. So some games it just makes more sense for me to buy in store than download.

Please Steam, let us know how big the game is before we buy it...
completely agree with this guy.
it tells you how much disk space you need, but thats not the same as the download size.

AntiFritz
09-09-2009, 05:09 AM
Yeah, L4D is like "7.5GB" aparently when i only had to download like 3 GB. I had no way of knowing how much i would have downloaded so i had to go on the "7.5GB" which turned out to be much less. What we need is an exact number.

PS. i live in australia and have a 4gb per month limit so i download games overnight when ive used the 4gb up and are on much slower capped internet.

mrsoftware
09-09-2009, 05:37 AM
4gb. ouch.
I have a 40GB cap but the dl rate is slow. English villages have their ups and downs lol

silvertemplar
09-10-2009, 10:54 AM
Just want to add my vote for this too. Direct2Drive DOES show this BEFORE you buy. Alot of us are on limited plans AND i'd like to evaluate whether it's simply better to order the box/go into store.

Some of us don't have super fast connection either, so it takes time to download that 10GB...

Steam updates is also terribad, there's almost zero info about their sizes, even after purchase you can get hit with massive updates without being informed about it.

Anyhow, up to now i actually went to Direct2Drive and looked up the sizes there as they generally DO match with the Steam download [it's probably the exact same download anyway] . Problem is, next purchase i'm not going to bother with Steam, i'm gonna buy right from Direct2Drive instead....

And again for half the people that missed the point, there's a difference between how much space a game takes on your hard drive WHEN INSTALLED and how much you need to download. Steam only shows you the INSTALL requirements, not the digital download requirements.

For in case someone STILL don't get it, like someone before i'm quoting straight from Direct2Drive [see the parts in BOLD]:


Civilization 4 Download Minimum System Requirements

•Operating System: Windows 2000/XP
•Processor: 1.2 GHz Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon processor or equivalent
•Memory: 256 MB RAM (Windows 2000) / 512 MB RAM (Windows XP)
•Hard Disk Space: 1.7 GB Free
•Video: DirectX 9.0c-compatible 64 MB video card with Hardware T&L support ( GeForce 2/Radeon 7500 or better)
•Sound: DirectX 9.0c-compatible sound card
•DirectX®: DirectX® version 9.0c (included) or higher

Civilization 4
Download File Size 1.3 GB
Version
1.74 Publisher
2K Games


Note the very specific difference "Download file size" and "Hard Disk Space".
Steam does not provide the very critical "download file size" until you right click on the game in "My Games" and view "Properties". Only way to do that is to BUY THE GAME.

>X<
09-10-2009, 06:20 PM
I agree this feature is needed.

Krid
09-11-2009, 10:51 AM
This wouldn't work so well for Valve games, since those are highly modular and have large .gcfs of shared resources.

Anyway, as a stopgap solution why don't you try getting in contact with local people on Steam? You can stick the files on a flash drive or a DVD and drop them in the right folder and skip the downloading entirely.

FeareD
09-11-2009, 12:38 PM
Google.

Seriously, Valve doesn't need to add lame feature's such as this when you can just ♥♥♥♥ing search the damn game and find out in 2.3 second's.

Not to mention this 'feature' is already in there,
http://i31.tinypic.com/2h2r53p.png

Oh and by the way, game's like TF2, COD, L4D, etc could not do this because they keep updating and it's not Valve's job to check the file-size after each update...

amnesiasoft
09-11-2009, 04:56 PM
Not to mention this 'feature' is already in there,
http://i31.tinypic.com/2h2r53p.png
It has already been pointed out that that is not relevant to the download size.

FeareD
09-11-2009, 10:00 PM
It has already been pointed out that that is not relevant to the download size.

Really? I suppose they just spit out information for no reason, oh and I guess the DirectX version isn't relevant to DirectX either?

Not to mention games like Team Fortress 2 cannot be measured exactly as it used the gcf/ncf feature which can change file-size at any point in time.

It's like having a zip file then extracting the content's, now you have more than double the filesize space from that zip but the only thing is that you can't delete that Zip for TF2 ( valve games ) or the file's extracted because then you couldn't run the game.

Not to mention if you really really hate downloading this ♥♥♥♥ and it causes bandwidth problem's then just stop by your local game-store to buy the game as it's not Valve's fault your internet is ♥♥♥♥.

mrsoftware
09-12-2009, 12:33 AM
Really? I suppose they just spit out information for no reason, oh and I guess the DirectX version isn't relevant to DirectX either?

Downloads are compressed so therefore will not be the same as the disk space used. The ratio of compression can vary so amnesiasoft is correct.

Exact measurement isnt really a big deal either. Putting a ballpark figure would be more helpful than nothing.

For example the following (entirely made up numbers btw) would be helpful:
Team Fortress 2:
Disk space required: 5GB
Download Size: 3GB
If you already own another source game, additional disk space: 1GB; download 500mb

I would also beg to differ from your last point. People with poor internet connections ARE Valves problem because if valve want to sell games to them, they need to give them the correct information otherwise they will be put off when they see "Disk space required 12GB" as not all people will realise that the download size is different.

Nice contribution though, we all need a good flame for no reason sometimes :/


Krid: not a bad idea, but people who live in areas with crap internet will usually have neighbours with crap internet lol. Its a useful method though if you manage to get access to the files, I've used it once or twice myself.

WildCat_ZA
09-12-2009, 07:52 AM
Not to mention this 'feature' is already in there,
http://i31.tinypic.com/2h2r53p.png

Oh and by the way, game's like TF2, COD, L4D, etc could not do this because they keep updating and it's not Valve's job to check the file-size after each update...
I'm struggling to find the words to express my dismay for your inexplicable failure to understand this. How many times do people have to explain this simple concept right in this very thread for people like you to get it. Go now and read all posts in this thread.

Additionally, Valve could quite easily be measuring all the file-sizes of the games available for download from Steam on a regular basis and I see no reason why they shouldn't. It's something that could quite easily be automated.

Not to mention games like Team Fortress 2 cannot be measured exactly as it used the gcf/ncf feature which can change file-size at any point in time.

By selecting all the files and directories that represent all of a given game's data (GCF or otherwise), and then right-clicking and selecting Properties, you can get an exact figure of how big a game is. This simple process (or one similar to it that provides the same result) could be automated and automatically repeated on a frequent basis or after any update. The resulting figure could be stored in a database and it could be displayed on a web-page.

It's not rocket science.

cryptodan
09-12-2009, 07:56 AM
I support this idea, just for those people who do have capped datatransfer limits and bandwidth to make their game purchasing a much better and cheaper solution, and to see if it would be more cost effective to buy from retail and download the updates or download from steam.

We all do not have the luxury of having unlimited or high data transfer limits.

neoduke007
09-13-2009, 08:30 AM
yeah i agree, i live in belgium (am actually out of the country atm), and there we have a monthly download limit

buying games on steam usually uses up a big part of it, it would be really handy if i could see what the size is of the game before i buy it, so that i can perhaps wait a month or decide to buy it retail instead.

If im unsure about the size i usually end up not buying it, whereas if the size for the dl was right there i could immediately decide if i have the limit left or not

mrsoftware
09-14-2009, 12:31 AM
If im unsure about the size i usually end up not buying it,

There's the commercial incentive, VALVE

FeareD
09-14-2009, 12:18 PM
One major flaw in your theory.

Valve has how many source games?
The math would be impossible!

This feature would work for many game's but definitely not for Valve game's.

I don't know how to explain this, What if the user own's TF2, CSS, HL2, HL2DM, EP2, and PORTAL, this user want's to buy EP1.
Well this user has nearly all the asset's already, this user would be impossible to give a exact file size of what he/she is downloading because nearly all those game's share some asset's.

The amount of combitnation's for some game's would be ridicules!

edit:
I'm not even mentioning pre-loading or freebie day's!

WildCat_ZA
09-14-2009, 01:58 PM
What if the user own's TF2, CSS, HL2, HL2DM, EP2, and PORTAL, this user want's to buy EP1.
Well this user has nearly all the asset's already, this user would be impossible to give a exact file size of what he/she is downloading because nearly all those game's share some asset's.

That's a good point. I had actually already thought about this but didn't bother to try and come up with a solution. However, seeing as you brought it up, I'll give it a bash.

I think that one possible solution would be to display the "Maximum possible download size" to the user. This figure would assume that the user doesn't have any of the assets already. At least the user would then know what the worst-case-scenario would be.

Another possibility would be to only display the download size of a game if the user is logged in. That way, Steam could hopefully get a list of the currently installed games and do the simple maths to calculate the remaining download size.

amnesiasoft
09-14-2009, 03:23 PM
The math would be impossible!
Yeah, I mean, it's not like we have magical electronics that are capable of doing billions of operations per second! Wait...

FeareD
09-14-2009, 04:24 PM
Yeah, I mean, it's not like we have magical electronics that are capable of doing billions of operations per second! Wait...

You sir are obviously a smartass.

A dumb one in fact, so who has to program this?
Valve.
Programmer's cost money?
Yes.
Will Valve waste there money on stupid ♥♥♥♥ like this because people are too poor to buy a decent connection line?
Not likely.

By the way these electronic's are not 'magical' they are programmed by Human being's.

@ Wildcat
Yes this is possible.
These poster's in the thread though are very picky and seem to only want exact file size's.

Basically there saying "GEIF US ♥♥♥IN EX4CT S1ZE NAO CUZ I R POOR TO BUEY TEH INTERNETS"

By the way yes I understand that foreign country's are basically screwed if there neighbor hood doesn't provide decent internet.

cryptodan
09-14-2009, 04:32 PM
FeareD,

With all due respect, but not many countries offer bandwidth capless connections, and even the US is starting to see such caps. If you want a good connection you will have to pay for it, and sometimes many people cannot afford it due to budget constraints, and not to mention the economic recession we are still in. So please take that into consideration.

I for one support this idea, even though I have an unmetered connection.

FeareD
09-14-2009, 05:00 PM
FeareD,

With all due respect, but not many countries offer bandwidth capless connections, and even the US is starting to see such caps. If you want a good connection you will have to pay for it, and sometimes many people cannot afford it due to budget constraints, and not to mention the economic recession we are still in. So please take that into consideration.

I for one support this idea, even though I have an unmetered connection.

I'm sorry but if you cannot afford decent internet then why even bother paying hundred's of dollar's on games (most of which you wouldn't be able to play assuming these people can't afford a decent gaming computer which is about 700$ custom built and what 3 thousand for pre-built?)

The people who are hurting for money won't be buying game's.

cryptodan
09-14-2009, 05:02 PM
Ever heard of rest and relaxation after a hard days of work, and stress relief. Games help these people do that. You are being very narrow minded and naive to say the least.

FeareD
09-14-2009, 05:15 PM
Ever heard of rest and relaxation after a hard days of work, and stress relief. Games help these people do that. You are being very narrow minded and naive to say the least.

These people obviously are not hurting for money that badly if they can throw a few hundred dollar's valve's way, throw a few to computer parts and then throw a few for internet.

That's a lot of money.
Why not just buy game's at the local store and play them on the computer?

Better yet, get a cheap console at a pawn shop, rent a few game's.

I'm not being narrow minded, I'm just simply stating, if these people are REALLY hurting for money they won't be buying all these thing's that are for entertainment and cost a lot of money and upkeep.

cryptodan
09-14-2009, 05:29 PM
You can buy a cheap gaming computer for under 500 bucks.

OSVG
09-14-2009, 11:05 PM
@ FeareD
Why not try and save money anywhere you can? if my bandwidth was capped, and it cost money to go over that, I'd check the game retailers first. It isn't a matter of being too poor, it is just saving money.

IRL if it would cost you $100 extra dollars to get a T.V. Shipped to you as apposed to running 10 miles up the street, would you get it shipped or would you pick it up?

FeareD
09-14-2009, 11:40 PM
@ FeareD
Why not try and save money anywhere you can? if my bandwidth was capped, and it cost money to go over that, I'd check the game retailers first. It isn't a matter of being too poor, it is just saving money.

IRL if it would cost you $100 extra dollars to get a T.V. Shipped to you as apposed to running 10 miles up the street, would you get it shipped or would you pick it up?

Google search.

amnesiasoft
09-15-2009, 12:29 AM
With all due respect, but not many countries offer bandwidth capless connections, and even the US is starting to see such caps.
Even the ones that offer an "unlimited" transfer tend to...not give you unlimited transfer. Sure it's a crazy high cap, in many cases on the order of 250GiB, but even so it's usually there on unlimited connections. Why hasn't someone gone after them for false advertising yet...

Scared
09-15-2009, 12:40 AM
FeareD, please stop trolling this thread.

I think the best solution for the ep1 example given before is to just state the full download assuming no other games are owned and then have a note/disclaimer saying that "If you have any of these games installed [games] the total download size for [the game you want to get] will be reduced".

I rate this feature as necessary and should be push upwards in the "to do" list.

FeareD
09-15-2009, 01:11 AM
FeareD, please stop trolling this thread.

I think the best solution for the ep1 example given before is to just state the full download assuming no other games are owned and then have a note/disclaimer saying that "If you have any of these games installed [games] the total download size for [the game you want to get] will be reduced".

I rate this feature as necessary and should be push upwards in the "to do" list.

Learn the difference between trolling and trying to show a reason why I do not support this idea and why most idea's do not help the original idea.

What you have said has already been stated but the people in this thread replied saying they want exact measurement's.

mrsoftware
09-15-2009, 01:27 AM
One major flaw in your theory.

Valve has how many source games?
The math would be impossible!

This feature would work for many game's but definitely not for Valve game's.

I don't know how to explain this, What if the user own's TF2, CSS, HL2, HL2DM, EP2, and PORTAL, this user want's to buy EP1.
Well this user has nearly all the asset's already, this user would be impossible to give a exact file size of what he/she is downloading because nearly all those game's share some asset's.

The amount of combitnation's for some game's would be ridicules!

edit:
I'm not even mentioning pre-loading or freebie day's!

Computers do that kind of maths easily.
Its not difficult.
If they have those games, they have the base source engine files.
All they need to download then is the EP1 specific ones.

♥♥♥♥, add 2 numbers together thats hard. All the Episode1 page needs to say is "5GB download if you dont have another source game, 2GB download if you do" (I made the numbers up, but the idea is plain) its not difficult!

All it would require is a small database. If valve can make steam, then they can cope with that. Theyre not total morons you know.

FeareD
09-15-2009, 01:33 AM
Computers do that kind of maths easily.
Its not difficult.
If they have those games, they have the base source engine files.
All they need to download then is the EP1 specific ones.

♥♥♥♥, add 2 numbers together thats hard. All the Episode1 page needs to say is "5GB download if you dont have another source game, 2GB download if you do" (I made the numbers up, but the idea is plain) its not difficult!

All it would require is a small database. If valve can make steam, then they can cope with that. Theyre not total morons you know.

No Valve are not moron's, you are.

Read the next post's before you rage.
Computer's don't just do math magically, they require a programmer ( Human being ).

The math does get difficult when your adding 20 game's possible combination's and gb.

Example:
ep1 - ep2
ep2 - h2
ep1 - hl2
hl2 - portal
hl2 - ep2 - portal
hl2 - portal -ep1
css - portal -ep2
css - dods - ep2
css - ep2 - ep1
hl2 - css - dods
hl2 - ep2 - dods - ep2
hl2 - ep1 - dods - css - portal

The list goes on and on.
I didn't even scratch the surface.

mrsoftware
09-15-2009, 01:40 AM
No Valve are not moron's, you are.

Read the next post's before you rage.
Computer's don't just do math magically, they require a programmer ( Human being ).

....


A computer can add 2 things together. That isnt hard to program, considerably easier than say.. steam, half life, mspaint....

Steam already "knows" which games are on your computer, so all it needs to do is some simple subtraction of the files you already have from the files you need. In fact it doesnt even need to do that really(as I said before)
All the Episode1 page needs to say is "5GB download if you dont have another source game, 2GB download if you do"
That requires a calculator and 5 minutes to work out. No programing required.


So perhaps instead of crying, try to come up with a legit reason why this is a bad idea.
It could be programmed easily (christ I could make it myself on Access or Excel), its helpful to a large number of users and will allow those who might be put off buying a game to see if they can purchase it or not.

Wheres the disadvantage?
Makes users life easier? Yes
Possible commercial benefit? Yes
Makes everyone happy except one troll on the forum? Yes

I think we're on a winner here.

mrsoftware
09-15-2009, 01:45 AM
Example:
ep1 - ep2
ep2 - h2
ep1 - hl2
hl2 - portal
hl2 - ep2 - portal
hl2 - portal -ep1
css - portal -ep2
css - dods - ep2
css - ep2 - ep1
hl2 - css - dods
hl2 - ep2 - dods - ep2
hl2 - ep1 - dods - css - portal
Ok i didnt see this before i posted last.

The way the games work is that you have a base source engine content file, and then a content file specific to each game. So as long as you have one source game, you will have all the source engine files (it doesnt matter which one!) and therefore will only need to download the ones specific to the new game you are buying.
Its actually not as complex as you make it out, the combinations dont matter. All you need to know is whether you have a source game already installed or not, doesnt matter which one it is or how many there are.


Anyway we're off topic somewhat.

To summarise:
The idea that pages should show the download size of a game and not just the disk space required by it (they aren't the same!) would be a simple to implement and useful addition to the steam store.
To go further it would be cool if the system took into account the files you already have on your pc.
Nice idea OP :)

amnesiasoft
09-15-2009, 06:06 AM
By the way these electronic's are not 'magical' they are programmed by Human being's.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
You clearly missed my sarcasm.

And as for programming it, yes, it really should be simple. Steam already has a means of determining the download size (check the install dialog), it's just a matter of also including it in the store page. And considering Valve's general level of QA, this really could be done in 5 minutes...

WildCat_ZA
09-27-2009, 07:39 AM
I'm sorry but if you cannot afford decent internet then why even bother paying hundred's of dollar's on games (most of which you wouldn't be able to play assuming these people can't afford a decent gaming computer which is about 700$ custom built and what 3 thousand for pre-built?)

The people who are hurting for money won't be buying game's.
These people obviously are not hurting for money that badly if they can throw a few hundred dollar's valve's way, throw a few to computer parts and then throw a few for internet.

That's a lot of money.
Why not just buy game's at the local store and play them on the computer?

Better yet, get a cheap console at a pawn shop, rent a few game's.

I'm not being narrow minded, I'm just simply stating, if these people are REALLY hurting for money they won't be buying all these thing's that are for entertainment and cost a lot of money and upkeep.

Your opinion on this matter is incorrect because you are not well informed on this matter. In developing countries (such as my country), the price of computer games and computer hardware is often quite similar to first-world prices. However, the cost of internet connectivity is usually much higher than in first-world countries. What this means is that people who can easily afford to buy gaming computers and games can't afford to subscribe to an uncapped internet account. You'll find plenty of people with top-of-the-range gaming rigs who are making do with extremely low data limits per month on their internet connection.

This is not about "people who are hurting for money".

No Valve are not moron's, you are.

Read the next post's before you rage.
Computer's don't just do math magically, they require a programmer ( Human being ).

The math does get difficult when your adding 20 game's possible combination's and gb.

Example:
ep1 - ep2
ep2 - h2
ep1 - hl2
hl2 - portal
hl2 - ep2 - portal
hl2 - portal -ep1
css - portal -ep2
css - dods - ep2
css - ep2 - ep1
hl2 - css - dods
hl2 - ep2 - dods - ep2
hl2 - ep1 - dods - css - portal

The list goes on and on.
I didn't even scratch the surface.

You don't understand how a feature like this would be implemented. It's no where near as complicated as you've made it out to be. This would be fairly easy to implement - trust me. I've done a bit of programming in my time and I work with programmers who design complext system architectures.

This is a very worthwhile feature for Steam to have in the Store. Please don't piss all over it if you don't understand what you're talking about.

mrsoftware
09-28-2009, 12:21 AM
Your opinion on this matter is incorrect because you are not well informed on this matter. In developing countries (such as my country), the price of computer games and computer hardware is often quite similar to first-world prices. However, the cost of internet connectivity is usually much higher than in first-world countries. What this means is that people who can easily afford to buy gaming computers and games can't afford to subscribe to an uncapped internet account. You'll find plenty of people with top-of-the-range gaming rigs who are making do with extremely low data limits per month on their internet connection.

This is not about "people who are hurting for money".



You don't understand how a feature like this would be implemented. It's no where near as complicated as you've made it out to be. This would be fairly easy to implement - trust me. I've done a bit of programming in my time and I work with programmers who design complext system architectures.

This is a very worthwhile feature for Steam to have in the Store. Please don't piss all over it if you don't understand what you're talking about.
Well said, Sir.

I think this feature is useful for people with limited internet connections (for whatever reason), or for people who are just interested to know what theyre downloading.

Roxor
10-01-2009, 04:38 AM
Computing the amount of data that needs to be transferred would be trivial, especially given that Valve's servers would by necessity have compressed versions of all files that need to be distributed already in place. Just keep a little database of which compressed files go with which game and how big the current version of said files are. If a user already has a few games which share files with the one they're considering buying, leave out the shared files when computing the download size. Simple. Valve's gifted team of coders could implement this in a matter of minutes.

As for how much accuracy to display, I'd like it accurate to the kilobyte.