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Serph
10-06-2009, 12:33 PM
In Regards to the ridiculous way Steam handled the release or better yet, whenever to be released Operation Flashpoint 2 Digital Download

Steam is to blame!

Here is why Steam is to fault.

1. They posted this information publically in their steam system and have this countdown timer. To have this type of system you need to be in control of your content or product... It has been proved today this type of system is mismanaged and problematic.

2. The Helios messup about midnite launch was bad. And codemasters should have rectified this but did not.. Again mismanagement. But again you have to blame steam.. Steam again has a countdown saying 16 hours till release..

I strongly believe steam was pressured into pulling the item off due to tons of people cancelling their pre-orders.... So they did.. And that was totally wrong and innappropriate... Thats my opinion.

Whats worse is they waited until 1 hour before the supposed release...

I as a consumer, took a vacation day off to play based on publicized information... Only to now lose a vacation day... To play my game.... I work hard, i work 60-80 hours per week 6 days a week, and go to church and take care of family needs on sundays. I have 5-8 days vacation per year only and dam if i want to lose one of them to some bs like this... Call me a whiner.. I am one ticked off son of a ****.


We have 2 markets, we have retail, and we have digital distribution... They are now playing ping pong with the product and us consumers. They are separate products regardless of how that is perceived by end use... You can not slap around customers with this continued marketing exploitation and **** on us consumers. We will drop digital distribution if it continues to go like this, and i say this as a huge digital distro fan... Stemming back years ago. I was a big player in wanting digital distrubution to succeed, and even tried making several companies for it to do so. Now, i foresee it as an obvious joke of an industry. Nothing more than a side show greedy money grab for little benefit to end user..... Since it is to be treated so, because of the bs hype marketing game following us iwth this pathetic pre-order scams going on.. Then let it die... Destroy your steam accounts, and live happily ever after!

And i apologize to steam only if codemasters forcefully removed your content or something, but i do not believe this in the slightest extent... Im pretty sure you have to be firm as a company with this sort of stuff to avoid these problems.. But you screwed me over and i will always remember that and i am now done with you as a customer..you have to live with it.

arose1980
10-06-2009, 12:36 PM
In Regards to the ridiculous way Steam handled the release or better yet, whenever to be released Operation Flashpoint 2 Digital Download

Steam is to blame!

Here is why Steam is to fault.

1. They posted this information publically in their steam system and have this countdown timer. To have this type of system you need to be in control of your content or product... It has been proved today this type of system is mismanaged and problematic.

2. The Helios messup about midnite launch was bad. And codemasters should have rectified this but did not.. Again mismanagement. But again you have to blame steam.. Steam again has a countdown saying 16 hours till release..

I strongly believe steam was pressured into pulling the item off due to tons of people cancelling their pre-orders.... So they did.. And that was totally wrong and innappropriate... Thats my opinion.

Whats worse is they waited until 1 hour before the supposed release...

I as a consumer, took a vacation day off to play based on publicized information... Only to now lose a vacation day... To play my game.... I work hard, i work 60-80 hours per week 6 days a week, and go to church and take care of family needs on sundays. I have 5-8 days vacation per year only and dam if i want to lose one of them to some bs like this... Call me a whiner.. I am one ticked off son of a ****.


We have 2 markets, we have retail, and we have digital distribution... They are now playing ping pong with the product and us consumers. They are separate products regardless of how that is perceived by end use... You can not slap around customers with this continued marketing exploitation and **** on us consumers. We will drop digital distribution if it continues to go like this, and i say this as a huge digital distro fan... Stemming back years ago. I was a big player in wanting digital distrubution to succeed, and even tried making several companies for it to do so. Now, i foresee it as an obvious joke of an industry. Nothing more than a side show greedy money grab for little benefit to end user..... Since it is to be treated so, because of the bs hype marketing game following us iwth this pathetic pre-order scams going on.. Then let it die... Destroy your steam accounts, and live happily ever after!

And i apologize to steam only if codemasters forcefully removed your content or something, but i do not believe this in the slightest extent... Im pretty sure you have to be firm as a company with this sort of stuff to avoid these problems.. But you screwed me over and i will always remember that and i am now done with you as a customer..you have to live with it.

lol Seriously? They screwed you over? REALLY? Wow...

Krakn3Dfx
10-06-2009, 12:38 PM
Take a deep breath, and repeat after me, "It's just a game. Serenity now..."

Serph
10-06-2009, 12:43 PM
For all you Antiwhiners

Codemasters yesterday said there was a midnite release for last night
3 Hours before midnite, this was turned out to be misleading information from Codemasters, and that there was a 1pm CST release date today..
at 12pm CST today, the page mysteriously changes from 1 hour to release
to 1 day 1 hour... Screwing over hundreds of people waiting around.. including me who took a vaction day When STEAM PUBLICALLY started a launch countdown..

You do that you are stating its to be... you dont get to change it 1 hour before... If you went to the ballpack whent hey said the game stated
12 noon release and you showed up at 9am for them to just
come out at 11am and say.. Sorry, game is tommorow.. would you not be rightful to complain...

I wont fall for the trolls trying to get my blood pressure up.. For all those idiots that respond there instigating me, I know are 100 more than read this and get the point and understand... And to those... please step up and complain as well... Without it.. this bullcrap digital distrubtion / retail game will continue to only aggravate us consumers who dont know what route to choose anymore.. We get bs scam hype crap to pre-order, then we get crapped on at release, so we change, then we get crapped on again because we were lied too.. Enough of it.. if you are going to play ping pong with us consumers.. we will choose retail and drop Digital in a heartbeat, and I havnt bought a retail title since BF2, and I pretty much buy all games.. just sick of it... By steam, I am done with you



I say just dump digital distro.. close Steam and kill your accounts

KubanitoS
10-06-2009, 12:46 PM
You are a REAL lucky guy if THAT is your biggest problem in life...

KeRupTion
10-06-2009, 12:47 PM
If you went to the ballpack whent hey said the game stated
12 noon release and you showed up at 9am for them to just
come out at 11am and say.. Sorry, game is tommorow.. would you not be rightful to complain...

Except I would have to drive to the ballpark which takes effort and gas money. You just have to sit at your computer and wait. And don't use ellipsis in every sentence.

Krakn3Dfx
10-06-2009, 12:47 PM
I say just dump digital distro.. close Steam and kill your accounts

Dude, what?

You should hang out with this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEOgYXCoHHM).

Serph
10-06-2009, 12:51 PM
Quit Antiwhining nad Corporate Trolling

Read this guys info at
http://www.antiwhiner.com

We know whats going on and your phoney ♥♥♥ trolling complaint tactics..
Its called Corporate Antiwhining..

IT's not going to work... All will soon be educated in it and forums will restore to a discussion place and PR will have to work like they use to instead of covering it up with nonsense and belittling tactics.

YOU ♥♥♥♥ED UP, DEAL WITH IT

epsylon_Z1
10-06-2009, 12:53 PM
just relax :)

Krakn3Dfx
10-06-2009, 12:55 PM
just relax :)

Anti-whiner! ;)

If there's a whole site dedicated to promoting whining on the internet, maybe my goiter related adult website isn't completely inconceivable...

Akudama89
10-06-2009, 12:59 PM
it's so sad that people cry about this stuff so much.....

Alex DeLarge
10-06-2009, 01:01 PM
Nobody cares, and this is coming from a long-term OPF player.

arose1980
10-06-2009, 01:09 PM
For all you Antiwhiners

Codemasters yesterday said there was a midnite release for last night
3 Hours before midnite, this was turned out to be misleading information from Codemasters, and that there was a 1pm CST release date today..
at 12pm CST today, the page mysteriously changes from 1 hour to release
to 1 day 1 hour... Screwing over hundreds of people waiting around.. including me who took a vaction day When STEAM PUBLICALLY started a launch countdown..

You do that you are stating its to be... you dont get to change it 1 hour before... If you went to the ballpack whent hey said the game stated
12 noon release and you showed up at 9am for them to just
come out at 11am and say.. Sorry, game is tommorow.. would you not be rightful to complain...

I wont fall for the trolls trying to get my blood pressure up.. For all those idiots that respond there instigating me, I know are 100 more than read this and get the point and understand... And to those... please step up and complain as well... Without it.. this bullcrap digital distrubtion / retail game will continue to only aggravate us consumers who dont know what route to choose anymore.. We get bs scam hype crap to pre-order, then we get crapped on at release, so we change, then we get crapped on again because we were lied too.. Enough of it.. if you are going to play ping pong with us consumers.. we will choose retail and drop Digital in a heartbeat, and I havnt bought a retail title since BF2, and I pretty much buy all games.. just sick of it... By steam, I am done with you



I say just dump digital distro.. close Steam and kill your accounts

Wow... I would suggest not driving a car if a game releasing a day late gets you all riled up...

KubanitoS
10-06-2009, 01:11 PM
Maybe the guy is an emloyee of France Telekom. xD

Freyar
10-06-2009, 01:11 PM
Releases on Steam are very rarely a midnight release. Even if Codemasters gives the go-ahead, ValvE staff have to be on hand to deal with it. I do agree that these countdown timers should never get more specific than the day that they are getting released, however I think the OP is overreacting a bit.

Sure you took a vacation day, but things don't happen just on your schedule. What you ought to have done is wait for the game to be released, download it, make sure it works and THEN take a vacation day. It's one of those things you learn over time with practice. With how long Steam has been around, it's not surprising this has happened. Even Half-Life 2 had a huge problem when it was released.

Point is that you need to relax. The game didn't work so let's do something else. Don't let it ruin your entire vacation day. Go bowling, golfing, drinking (if you're over 21), or whatever. Just because what you planned to do fell through doesn't mean that you need to rant and fume on it.

(Any Steam game release date) = 10 hours into that day (Pacific Time)

You can not slap around customers with this continued marketing exploitation and **** on us consumers.Marketing exploitation how? A midnight release isn't the norm. This isn't exploitation more a deadline that didn't get met and frankly yelling at the top of your lungs just won't fix it. You paid for the game, and when it is available you'll get the game, transaction complete. At the moment as far as accounting goes, your paid-for-pre-order is a liability and will stay that way until after is had been released.

Since it is to be treated so, because of the bs hype marketing game following us iwth this pathetic pre-order scams going on..

I could say the same thing for retail as Gamestop has repeatedly lost my paid-in-full pre-orders for a number of games. The scenarios are different in that I didn't even get the product, as opposed to Steam where you WILL get the product.

arose1980
10-06-2009, 01:16 PM
To the OP, its now released. I hope bursting a blood vessel was worth about 12 hours...

Serph
10-06-2009, 01:17 PM
Releases on Steam are very rarely a midnight release. Even if Codemasters gives the go-ahead, ValvE staff have to be on hand to deal with it. I do agree that these countdown timers should never get more specific than the day that they are getting released, however I think the OP is overreacting a bit.

Sure you took a vacation day, but things don't happen just on your schedule. What you ought to have done is wait for the game to be released, download it, make sure it works and THEN take a vacation day. It's one of those things you learn over time with practice. With how long Steam has been around, it's not surprising this has happened. Even Half-Life 2 had a huge problem when it was released.

Point is that you need to relax. The game didn't work so let's do something else. Don't let it ruin your entire vacation day. Go bowling, golfing, drinking (if you're over 21), or whatever. Just because what you planned to do fell through doesn't mean that you need to rant and fume on it.


No, you are dead wrong, and this is what they mean by the customer is always right.. This is what the term identifies too...

You post a countdown timer that says this item will be availabe in 16 hours... .15 hours, and watch it go down
and then it gets to 2 hours and then to 1.... Then PLOOP 26 hours

THAT IS WRONG...

Serph
10-06-2009, 01:19 PM
--------
To the OP, its now released
--------




see what my complaints did... if you dont complain it dont get fixed!!!!
Complain today and have a happy ending!


You all can thank me for this!

Freyar
10-06-2009, 01:24 PM
No, you are dead wrong, and this is what they mean by the customer is always right.. This is what the term identifies too...

That adage doesn't exist anymore. The customer isn't always right because these days customers try to pull every single string they can to whine, moan, or get free stuff out of it.

You post a countdown timer that says this item will be availabe in 16 hours... .15 hours, and watch it go down
and then it gets to 2 hours and then to 1.... Then PLOOP 26 hoursYeah, and I already agreed the timer ought to just stick to day-of, rather than counting down hours. That said, it's been like that for so many releases it's like some new guy asking how to download the games in the first place.

Steam's been around, this scenario isn't a surprise and won't be a surprise.


Whatever the case maybe, thre is no SPIN in putting it on my fault....Easy, check the track record of past releases, or just poke your head in. Like I said, almost every release on Steam hasn't followed the timer since they've started using it.

I live my life in an organized fashion, that is why we have wrist watches in the first place... So we know what time it is, where we should be at that time and plan accordingly...So you could have waited an extra day, and have complete assurance that the game was released. Hell it'd be available for you to have played AT midnight.

Also, you wear a wrist watch?

see what my complaints did... if you dont complain it dont get fixed!!!!
Complain today and have a happy ending!


You all can thank me for this!There is no causal link there. Don't spout off that fallacy.

Serph
10-06-2009, 01:28 PM
[QUOTE=Freyar;11481937]That adage doesn't exist anymore. The customer isn't always right because these days customers try to pull every single string they can to whine, moan, or get free stuff out of it.

This is so wrong, its just been played and probably why your company is FAIL... if you trulu believe this.. you have no hope in business.

as for everythign else you have said.. mumbo jumbo bs, you just don't like my negativity.. not my problem.. you can spin it any way you like.. they were wrong and its why they fixed it

Freyar
10-06-2009, 01:32 PM
This is so wrong, its just been played and probably why your company is FAIL... if you trulu believe this.. you have no hope in business.

as for everythign else you have said.. mumbo jumbo bs, you just don't like my negativity.. not my problem.. you can spin it any way you like.. they were wrong and its why they fixed it

I own a company? What? I'm just a volunteer mod, Serph. If you aren't willing to view an alternate point of view that refutes your sense of injustice, then why are you here complaining outside of just attempting to troll around? Did you even try to make sense of it or was it "Too Long"?

FK120
10-06-2009, 01:37 PM
wow, i think we're getting trolled pretty hard here

Steam is at fault? Good, go buy it some other place and stop your ♥♥♥♥ing whining. We dont give a ♥♥♥♥ that they didn't every up to your standards. If it pisses you off so much go launch your own ♥♥♥♥ing service and when something goes wrong there, we'll all flame the ♥♥♥♥ out of you until you close down.

Cedge
10-06-2009, 01:46 PM
Man, back in the day, we hardly even had release dates for games at all. That people can get so worked up over a few hours nowadays is just crazy.

see what my complaints did... if you dont complain it dont get fixed!!!!
Complain today and have a happy ending!

You all can thank me for this!

You pretty clearly gave up your troll act with this post. No one is that much of an ego-maniacal fool.

arose1980
10-06-2009, 02:01 PM
[QUOTE=Freyar;11481937]That adage doesn't exist anymore. The customer isn't always right because these days customers try to pull every single string they can to whine, moan, or get free stuff out of it.

This is so wrong, its just been played and probably why your company is FAIL... if you trulu believe this.. you have no hope in business.

as for everythign else you have said.. mumbo jumbo bs, you just don't like my negativity.. not my problem.. you can spin it any way you like.. they were wrong and its why they fixed it

... uhh... wow. I just don't know what to say...

Serph
10-06-2009, 02:04 PM
[QUOTE=Serph;11481992]

... uhh... wow. I just don't know what to say...

Yup, the correct answer is you have nothing to say... Which is why your antiwhining butt should have not even replied .. But you are doing what is known as classic condescending non reasoning antiwhining... You are not directly attacking but you are harassing by repling with complete nonsense, to belittle the op and antagonize him.... So obvious you are a troll... You are the ones that need removing from communities then we will be in a happy zone!

Serph
10-06-2009, 02:06 PM
Man, back in the day, we hardly even had release dates for games at all. That people can get so worked up over a few hours nowadays is just crazy.



You pretty clearly gave up your troll act with this post. No one is that much of an ego-maniacal fool.

Wow, a double antiwhiner post, you must be really insecure.. according to http://www.antiwhiner.com you are ready to be humiliated.. You see you used condescending attack which makes you think you are clever, but your intellect shows you are shallow and weak minded by going to the assumption attack, the assumation of a ego maniac.. The only one with the ego here is you, and with this post you are trying to buff your ego.. It's a fail though.. You area nothing but an antiwhiner offereing no value to this discussion, thanks for the harrassment!

Serph
10-06-2009, 02:08 PM
wow, i think we're getting trolled pretty hard here

Steam is at fault? Good, go buy it some other place and stop your ♥♥♥♥ing whining. We dont give a ♥♥♥♥ that they didn't every up to your standards. If it jaratees you off so much go launch your own ♥♥♥♥ing service and when something goes wrong there, we'll all flame the ♥♥♥♥ out of you until you close down.

You used the term troll, that is why you are an antiwhiner, you should have read the post for what it was and nothing more... You are the one trolling, your opinion on this matter is moot and discrediting the op does nothing but sacrifice the integrity of this forum.. Thanks for ruining online communication!

arose1980
10-06-2009, 02:09 PM
[QUOTE=arose1980;11482308]

Yup, the correct answer is you have nothing to say... Which is why your antiwhining butt should have not even replied .. But you are doing what is known as classic condescending non reasoning antiwhining... You are not directly attacking but you are harassing by repling with complete nonsense, to belittle the op and antagonize him.... So obvious you are a troll... You are the ones that need removing from communities then we will be in a happy zone!

LOL @ Referring to YOURSELF in the third person... "Him"... ok, I am done with you. Hilarious... :D

Serph
10-06-2009, 02:11 PM
I own a company? What? I'm just a volunteer mod, Serph. If you aren't willing to view an alternate point of view that refutes your sense of injustice, then why are you here complaining outside of just attempting to troll around? Did you even try to make sense of it or was it "Too Long"?

I dunno what your talking about, i never said anything about you owning a company, so you are spinning the topic known as corporate trolling or the exact point Habnor the God of Whine points out.. You are comprehending incorrectly due to lack of concentration and taking negativity posted directly as a 3rd party reader... Whatever the case may be, you have gone so far out of bounds, i dont think youll make it back for the 2nd half.. Have a nice day

Freyar
10-06-2009, 02:12 PM
Seems like you're taking the Thompson way out here, Serph. Are you telling me that anyone that has been here longer than you which has grown acclimated to Steam's operating methods is an "anti-whiner" (when did that term pop up, ****...) and that they threaten the foundation of this community? That's laughable at best.

You've ignored all my logic, which allows me to safely assume that you agree.

-----

This is so wrong, its just been played and probably why your company is FAIL... if you trulu believe this.. you have no hope in business.

My emphasis added. Your response was directed to me saying my company (to which I own none) is fail. Comprehension is fine here.

Serph
10-06-2009, 02:14 PM
wow, i think we're getting trolled pretty hard here

Steam is at fault? Good, go buy it some other place and stop your ♥♥♥♥ing whining. We dont give a ♥♥♥♥ that they didn't every up to your standards. If it jaratees you off so much go launch your own ♥♥♥♥ing service and when something goes wrong there, we'll all flame the ♥♥♥♥ out of you until you close down.

Probably, might want to let the company speak for itself, or you are a corporate troll fake nick? I assume Vavle/Steam don't act so unproffesional, as a game company they do try to provide quality.

But if you read the habnor guide, it's obviously seen you are the weakest link here and are ready to be humilated and changed to repent from an antiwhiner position.. Question is.. are you ready?

DARKNIGHT
10-06-2009, 02:15 PM
Are you serious?

You come here ranting about a delayed game release, making a big fuss about it and insulting people in the process. Please take a chill pill, relax a bit, its only a game!

Furthermore Steam/Valve has no direct control over release times, they have to be in the office to make it happen, and if codemasters decide to delay it further, thats not grounds to blame Steam or even Valve, these things happen, but just because the steam store shows a countdown, eveyone expects it to be accurate, and start complaining, ♥♥♥♥♥ing if its 5 minutes to late is childish and pointless.

I wouldnt mind getting rid of these countdown timers, it would be a bit more peacefull on this forum.

Serph
10-06-2009, 02:17 PM
wow, you already have a FORM REPLY made up DARKKNIGHT? I have read this same reply for 15 other complains on 9 other forums.. top notch sweeping i must say...

Oh do you hate whining so much and are so weak, that you just cut n pasted someone elses point you thought was moot in this case? LOL

Freyar
10-06-2009, 02:19 PM
A person looking to call out something like that would have made links to said "copy-and-paste" responses. Just because it is well written doesn't mean it's a PR guy going around the forums.

DARKNIGHT
10-06-2009, 02:22 PM
wow, you already have a FORM REPLY made up DARKKNIGHT? I have read this same reply for 15 other complains on 9 other forums.. top notch sweeping i must say...

Oh do you hate whining so much and are so weak, that you just cut n pasted someone elses point you thought was moot in this case? LOL

I do not copy paste anything over here, im not lazy and i do take the time to type in my replies.

I dont mind if people start whining, but you take it to a different level here, this isnt whining anymore, its blatently insulting and pretty pointless, btw if you got the same response in over 9 forums, then why bother repeating yourself, obviously something doesnt work out for you, and with good reason because what you write and post is beyond my level of understanding.

Calm down a bit!

Serph
10-06-2009, 02:22 PM
A person looking to call out something like that would have made links to said "copy-and-paste" responses. Just because it is well written doesn't mean it's a PR guy going around the forums.

It's not well written Freyar, just funny i seen it 10 times elsehwere for every other complaint..

For one, you should learn to moderate a forum correctly, I have been instigated several times, only you want to punish me for protecting myself becuase you don't like my negativity and feel to protect the company.. This is why Habnor exists, to educate you moderators...

Next the point is ridiculous.
They post countdown timers and are not to be held accountable when incorrect? How about I come in to work 3 hours late and say, sorry my watch was wrong, the dam Timex people are to blame?

Quit trying to come at me.. I know you are an antiwhiner, i know you are weak, i am not backing down, i will prove to you of my master Habnors incredible research in online communication, I am a high ranking minion that serves the God Of Whine, i know you're every move, I know you are weak, and I am ready for the ban hammer

Freyar
10-06-2009, 02:31 PM
Wonder if your "Habnor" took his name from Hansel Habnor the bodybuilder.

Either way, the countdowns were never a contract as they were always a general idea of when to expect it. Here's the difference in the two scenarios you posted.

Steam
You get your game regardless if it is late or not.
A countdown timer is an attempt to build up anticipation which undoubtedly works.
You lose nothing when the game is released late (as far as what Steam provides) as even if you were to buy the game after the release date, you'd still pay the same amount.
Your Job
Your job is from x to y.
Time not working is time paid to you regardless (if on salary), or time paid to someone else (if by wages).
You have a legally binding agreement to work x to y or face penalties. The comparison you make is like Apples to Oranges here, and just doesn't work.

As far as Habnor and his anti-whine site, I could certainly come up with plenty of rebuttals to his claims as well. Debate is everywhere regardless if you like it or not. Watch a bit of the talks on TED (http://www.ted.com/). Once you do that, I'll be happy to discuss the merits and demerits of "Habnor".

Serph
10-06-2009, 02:44 PM
Wonder if your "Habnor" took his name from Hansel Habnor the bodybuilder.

Either way, the countdowns were never a contract as they were always a general idea of when to expect it. Here's the difference in the two scenarios you posted.

Steam
You get your game regardless if it is late or not.
A countdown timer is an attempt to build up anticipation which undoubtedly works.
You lose nothing when the game is released late (as far as what Steam provides) as even if you were to buy the game after the release date, you'd still pay the same amount.
Your Job
Your job is from x to y.
Time not working is time paid to you regardless (if on salary), or time paid to someone else (if by wages).
You have a legally binding agreement to work x to y or face penalties. The comparison you make is like Apples to Oranges here, and just doesn't work.

As far as Habnor and his anti-whine site, I could certainly come up with plenty of rebuttals to his claims as well. Debate is everywhere regardless if you like it or not. Watch a bit of the talks on TED (http://www.ted.com/). Once you do that, I'll be happy to discuss the merits and demerits of "Habnor".

Wow, Steam must pay you in brownies, cuz you stir up the biggest batch of chocalate bs I have ever seen.... PR is not your game though, you are easily seen as a corporate troll.. Doesnt matter what i say at this point you area gonna spin it... Thats why i posted that other bs thread... Playing some games with you now, since i dont have a game to play on my plate as advertised

Freyar
10-06-2009, 02:47 PM
I've been reading the references you left me. Interesting, if not very flawed.

Either way though, if you were going to actually debate this subject, you'd be rebutting my responses rather than throwing your hands up and saying "Whatever".

Serph
10-06-2009, 02:51 PM
condescending bull♥♥♥♥ again, do you have a point for a change. I mean a real angle.. Cuz if you havnt noticed, your only angle so far is you don't like what I have said...

FK120
10-06-2009, 02:54 PM
So it's a really stupid person, not a troll.

Got it.

Go play the game you were so butthurt about a few hours ago, or get the ♥♥♥♥ out.