JPEG Avatar Compression is Disgusting

[Alteran Ancient]

Everywhere I look, the avatars are horribly blocky and grainy. Reason? All avatars are converted to JPG at a max of around 10KB.

Now, I am understanding that you 1. Wish to conserve space, and 2. Wish to reduce transfer time to clients, but JPEG is a very inefficient and lossy form of compression. I can easily compress a rather complex avatar in Photoshop down to 8KB using PNG. It is far more efficient than the JPEG alternative, and looks nicer too. The same-quality image in JPEG equivalent would equate or exceed 50KB.

I made a page here, comparing the two: http://www.alteranlabs.co.uk/avatars/

It just goes to show, huh?

[Fuzz Bucket]

There's been a threads (http://www.google.com/search?sitesearch=forums.steampowered.com&q=jpeg%20compression) about this.

[bloodypalace]

There's been a threads (http://www.google.com/search?sitesearch=forums.steampowered.com&q=jpeg%20compression) about this.

Well, we are going to have even more threads until they replace the jpeg compression with something more efficient and practical.

[relaxeder]

JPEG is a horrible standard, they should just switch the Steam Community profiles to use PNGs instead. I think the store product page banners use them too. I cropped an awesome image for my avatar the other day and decided not to keep it after the automatic file conversion splotted ugly compression artifacts all over the solid colors and borders.

The bandwidth argument is moot, they can make the quality of avatars much better without an increase in server storage bandwidth or with at least a negligible one.

[Alteran Ancient]

There's been a threads (http://www.google.com/search?sitesearch=forums.steampowered.com&q=jpeg%20compression) about this.
A number of posts and threads on that search, but none of them are threads relating to this particular rant. Besides, it's good to remind them every now and again just how much JPEG fails. I'm just surprised they didn't base the system on PNG in the first place. It goes beyond all reason.

[Fuzz Bucket]

Well, seeing how they're implementing trident, PNG is not the best choice for them unless they change engines, which I'm all for.

[Pc_Madness]

Well, seeing how they're implementing trident, PNG is not the best choice for them unless they change engines, which I'm all for.

After spending the last week trying to make my site work in IE 7 just for the overlay, I'm all for this as well. :p Surely Webkit wouldn't be that hard to implement. :\

[Fuzz Bucket]

After spending the last week trying to make my site work in IE 7 just for the overlay, I'm all for this as well. :p Surely Webkit wouldn't be that hard to implement. :\
Break another ridiculous platform-dependent tie, as well.

[AciD]

Hmm, transparency for PNGs would be a win!

[Fuzz Bucket]

Hmm, transparency for PNGs would be a win!
Too bad trident can't handle it. :/

[Pc_Madness]

Too bad trident can't handle it. :/

IE 7 and above supports PNG's. The file sizes are larger though than a JPEG's, espiceally when they've got the JPEG quality that low.

[bloodypalace]

I bumping this thread because i spent hours today creating a profile pic for my steam group. I specifically made it a web-optimized 184x184 pixel (just about ~49kb) thinking that steam wouldn't alter it but no steam made sure that it looks like it was converted to .gif and back to .jpeg at least like 43 times...

Seriously, either use a better compression method or increase the file size limit or stop altering pictures that are already the correct size and web optimized...

[JackMackG]

I agree. Png for the win.

[Mangr0v3]

For some reason it seems worse for group avatars :confused:

[bloodypalace]

For some reason it seems worse for group avatars :confused:

That's exactly my problem. Apparently steam converts every group avatar to super disgusting low quality ~10kb jpegs.

I don't know what kind of crappy compression method they use but i web optimized the picture that i mentioned above through photoshop cs4 to 14.6kbs (already 184x184 pxl) and steam still decided that it would be a good idea to compress it down to 11.6kb and somehow manage to make it look even worse.....

I agree. Png for the win.

You can upload .png pictures for group avatars but steam will still compress it to super low quality ~10kb jpegs.

[bloodypalace]

Could MikeBlaszczak or somebody else actually tell us what compression method they're using and what are the max limitations (like size) for group and profile avatars?

[Minimall]

Well, PNG-only uploading isn't the solution, Valve can just allow uploading PNG with no convert.

[DuDeInThEmOoN42]

PNG's are just better in general..8-bit transparency ftw!

[Hunter890]

That's exactly my problem. Apparently steam converts every group avatar to super disgusting low quality ~10kb jpegs.

I don't know what kind of crappy compression method they use but i web optimized the picture that i mentioned above through photoshop cs4 to 14.6kbs (already 184x184 pxl) and steam still decided that it would be a good idea to compress it down to 11.6kb and somehow manage to make it look even worse.....



You can upload .png pictures for group avatars but steam will still compress it to super low quality ~10kb jpegs.

Yep.I see your point here.My avatar looks good but when i uploaded it to steam IT LOOKS LIKE *****!

[Mangr0v3]

My avatar looks way better at 1024x1024, too :(

[Bernie Buddy]

Too bad trident can't handle it. :/

What's trident?

[MikeBlaszczak]

"Trident" is the code name for the IE embeddable control, and the layout engine that drives it.

[HappyHitman]

I know what you mean, that the avatar are jpegs, and jpegs are awful, but does it really make that much of a problem for a picture 184 x 184 pixels?

[mellow dice]

I know what you mean, that the avatar are jpegs, and jpegs are awful, but does it really make that much of a problem for a picture 184 x 184 pixels?

Yes.
There are avatars, that are utterly destroyed by the size compression employed by steam.
I made one from a drawn dog where you should be able to see the lining of his teeth, yet the compression made it look like he had rabbies!
way to go, slugger.

[bloodypalace]

"Trident" is the code name for the IE embeddable control, and the layout engine that drives it.

Soooo, are you guys going to make changes to the compression method?

[MikeBlaszczak]

No changes are planned.

[Mangr0v3]

With all due respect, there were also no plans for a Mac client, and no plans for a Mac subforum.

[MikeBlaszczak]

Of course there were. How do you think they happened?

[TheLifelessOne]

Too bad trident can't handle it. :/

Bah, forget IE.
Until the new one comes out, at least. That one might have some semblance of the proper support for the current standards.

Hmm, transparency for PNGs would be a win!

Indeed it would!

Of course there were. How do you think they happened?

Suddenly woke up one day and thought it was a good idea.
Day later, Mac client is released.

[dwn]

http://lbrandy.com/blog/2008/10/my-first-and-last-webcomic/

Valve logo with JPEG power: http://i49.tinypic.com/28bg1gy.jpg

[UranusIsBleedin]

Who gives a spit about Steam Avatars? Their whole community is a pile of dog crap at this point anyway. The only real thing they have going for them is that they are the best digital distribution client available. Everything else is just free extra garbage.

[iWashKneeGrows]

im not having this problem

[mellow dice]

Of course there were. How do you think they happened?

Someone rearanged a sideboard and got hit on the head with a bowling ball.

[bloodypalace]

Well, sooner or later you guys have to ditch that compression method. Even in the days of 56kb modems websites used better compression methods than what steam is currently using. So, why not change it up now?

Of course there were. How do you think they happened?

I think you misunderstood what (s)he said.

[Penitent Exile]

10kb... that's ridiculous! It's only enough to save a crappy quality image. And what's the point of 184 px avatars, if they have bad quality???

Really, guys, you sould do something about it.

[Method320]

This is a very old thread, why did you bump it? I have no issue with the compression/quality of avatars

[bloodypalace]

This is a very old thread, why did you bump it? I have no issue with the compression/quality of avatars

Well, the same revolting jpeg compression is still being used.

[DarkByke]

Well, the same revolting jpeg compression is still being used.

and they are also quoted as saying no changes are planned.

[OwMyToe]

I'm quite happy with my group image, you might say it's absolutely sublime (http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/68/681937458f153f59fd240c216ddcebea0d6b384e_full.jpg) !

In any case I don't think it looks that bad. I GIMPed the hell out of it before uploading it so there wasn't much for Steam to tinker with - it went from 41kb to 10kb and looks just about identical.

[NoVaTuRiEnT]

The main gripe I dislike about Avatars is that Transparency doesn't work :P

...and yeah I've found the Compression quite bad. Even having a 256 Colour Avatar from an old DOS game that I also notice the quality loss (serious).

Well I'm not too bothered by it to say the least.

[Victorspain]

and they are also quoted as saying no changes are planned.

But now they have Steam Clud for Screenshots. Is it too hard to use this space to store the avatar?

[velsoft]

doesn't affect me

[LinkinMcOwnage]

I would like PNG support. It's the only method I use for anything.

[EliteTemptation]

Is this why sometimes I get a good quality image, and resize it to fit, but when it becomes my avatar it looks really poor? My current avatar looks fine, but some of them come out horrible D:

[Z Overlord]

Yeah I wish Steam would accept better avatars.

[nordahl154]

Spent a while making a really cool avatar only to be crushed when I realized Valve's avatar compression sucks balls...
Really Valve?

http://i.imgur.com/HvLth.png

[nojohnny]

Whatever jpeg conversion tool they are using is terrible. Have you tried to upload a single colour display picture like white or blue? For white it introduces greys into the picture.

For blue it adds jpeg jaggies as artifacts.

Better jpeg conversion programs don't do this.

[Victorspain]

As the PNG vs JPG showed earlier, choosing PNG over JPG would probably save some bandwidth, too. It's just 2kbs, but multiply that with about 1 million users. Useless argument? Yes. Does avatar quality matter? For some, yes.
I see it as a win-win situation. (Except developers having to do some "work".)

We all have 1GB of cloud storage for screenshots. Multiply that with about 30 million active users at the moment. Uh, quite bigger than 2KB per one of those 30M, so space doen not look like it's the main problem. Also, they could use this Cloud space to store the avatar.

[viris]

Please allow high quality images, I can't stand having a perfectly compressed avatar with absolutely no pixelation ruined when I upload to my profile.

In some cases I have uploaded a 7KB jpg with no artifacts, only for steam to resave it in some lossy algorithm at 10KB... wat.

[Alteran Ancient]

It's nice to see this thread was revived. My original opinion on the matter still stands. Let us keep our PNGs. (My webpage demonstrating my opinion, however, has perished.)

[Ph0X_b01]

This is 2011, and I just had my avatar converted to a 3kb JPG. Really? 3kb? The text in my profile is bigger than that. I really don't see what they are trying to achieve by compressing things so hard.

[Stalast]

I was planning on making a new avatar and did some research beforehand and turns out there's pretty much no point since it's going to get ruined anyway :(

[Ciuvaz]

yea, higher quality avatars would be nice

[seph1985]

Hmmm odd never had any compression issues with mine, my profile picture is nice and clear, then again its a .jpg to begin with and not larger than the resolution supported so no need for steam to alter it in any way for me :)

[ConkertheCat]

-.- so much hate for jpg......why not just have every possible format for a picture and let those who chose jpg alone? ...then everyone is happy ....besides not all computers/devices can view other image types but jpg is the most all around viewed type =o

[Acepilotf14]

But my avatars look just fine in jpg.

[Ciuvaz]

But my avatars look just fine in jpg.

oh yea? Try uploading a high quality image and see how it gets blurry aka gets its quality reduced.

if your avatar looks fine in jpg then it simply means it wasnt a high quality image to begin with.

[mrlint]

oh yea? Try uploading a high quality image and see how it gets blurry aka gets its quality reduced.

if your avatar looks fine in jpg then it simply means it wasnt a high quality image to begin with.

Mine looks pretty good,Of course I did all the prework on it to make sure it was in its target size and format before i uploaded it.

[zoik]

Share your prework magic.

[Alteran Ancient]

Wow, this thread is still getting bumped?

Undoubtedly, this issue still remains, and I'd love nothing more than for Valve to start using PNGs instead of JPEGs.

[ericL]

gg dead link

[Catnipz0r]

Bump. Something needs to be done. Screenshot quality sucks too.

[Kendo]

Who gives a spit about Steam Avatars? Their whole community is a pile of dog crap at this point anyway. The only real thing they have going for them is that they are the best digital distribution client available. Everything else is just free extra garbage.
yea its quite the eyesore, I dont bother with it

[wazups 2x]

Yes, the avatar compression really is terrible. Hopefully this gets improved someday.

[seseorang]

Bump. Something needs to be done. Screenshot quality sucks too.

This is the major one. It makes it look like your game looks bad. JPG should be for photos and PNG should be for everything else

[CrunchyBacon]

My avatar looks horrible after being uploaded to Steam

[nrnoble]

Take a look at your profile image in Portal 2's map creator. I was honestly surprised that such a low quality bar is acceptable for Valve's release criteria. I am not loosing any sleep over it, but if I were Gabe, I'd tell the team they need to rise the quality bar just a tad; images look like they are pre 1995. :)

Avatar in Portal 2: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9465221/MiscPics/SteamAvitarPortal2.PNG

Source: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9465221/MiscPics/Neal%20Noble.jpg