PDA

View Full Version : VAC status:ban(s) on record - Privacy??? Why?


Ayla
10-25-2009, 01:59 PM
Is there any reason for the banned profiles to (still) remain as "private" after VAC banned?

For example, trying to keep our server clean, we usualy "hunt" and book keeping cheaters, suspects and ex-cheaters like this one:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197995308187 : STEAM_0:1:17521229 - banned 12/12/2009
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198005380102 : STEAM_0:0:22557187 - actual / no games
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198007118190 : STEAM_0:0:23426231 - ESL (Altex)
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198011653319 : STEAM_0:1:25693795 - sold
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198012927327 : STEAM_0:1:26330799 - banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013200386 : STEAM_0:0:26467329 - banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013765382 : STEAM_0:0:26749827 - banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014117547 : STEAM_0:1:26925909 - ESL deleted
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014536087 : STEAM_0:1:27135179 - banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198015466414 : STEAM_0:0:27600343 - actual (new)
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198015719216 : STEAM_0:0:27726744 - banned

Having more than 11 accounts is very hard to trace this kind of "player" (sorry, he is not a "player" - he is a real "cheater"!) mostly if the banned account remains or is changed to "private" after ban.
Privacy? Why? Since this guy acts like a lunatic on our servers having no shame or respect? Trust me, this is very frustrating for any owner, admin or ... player.

My suggestion is:

Banned accounts should become "public" after VAC banned; the "owner" (please read "cheater") having no possibility to change his personal info after ban.

sciss0rz
10-25-2009, 02:16 PM
Banned accounts should become "public" after VAC banned; the "owner" (please read "cheater") having no possibility to change his personal info after ban.
That doesn't even make sense. Having a private profile doesn't hide the VAC banned status and it doesn't make it any harder to track them, their community id and SteamID are always the game.

Ayla
10-25-2009, 04:07 PM
Sorry, but it is very hard ...

For example, what is the link between these 7 accounts, excepting the fact that I admit that it is about the same person, a unique person?...
My word, isn't it? So, what I admit is based on a research on 5 servers and 3 leagues, tracking his IPs, SC IDs and STEAM IDs for weeks! It isn't as easy as you think. He is always changing his account details to make the tracing harder but keeps using cheats. So, I'm talking about practice, not theory... This will help me a lot.
Just before VAC ban, he is always laughing on the server, killing everybody and swearing, saying who he is in fact ... Then, in the same day, he buys another account and he starts over and over to cheat, humiliating us until the next ban, again and again ... Playing in leagues also ...

So, what I'm asking: VAC Banned ? => OK, all account details freeze!
It's very simple. No "privacy" for a cheater.

airborneman
10-25-2009, 04:58 PM
I wish you could click the ? and it would show you what they did.

Haxy
10-26-2009, 04:56 AM
It's very simple. No "privacy" for a cheater.

Cheater or not, they all have rights to have privacy, you know.
Having active admins on server keeps griefers away from server and cheaters gets banned from server fast.

STiX
10-26-2009, 05:54 AM
I've hosted and played for a long time now.
Whilst some cheaters come back and start using hooks again, I've never even heard of someone so persistent to waste money.

Off-topic:
Just for the record, I used to use hooks and "hack" myself and I don't do it anymore. Not everyone stays that way.

ReBoot
10-26-2009, 06:00 AM
So, what I'm asking: VAC Banned ? => OK, all account details freeze!
It's very simple. No "privacy" for a cheater.And this will help you? Imagine this would be in. Your cheater would just create totally different profiles each time he got banned. The change you're proposing wouldn't help anyone but it would harm people. =>no help, harm=bad.

Mustikos
10-26-2009, 08:30 AM
Can't you change the freakin' policy?

make it so, if YOU WANT TO USE STEAM AND ARE CAUGHT CHEATING, YOU FORFEIT YOUR PRIVACY RIGHTS.. or something to that extent...

ReBoot
10-26-2009, 08:35 AM
Can't you change the freakin' policy?

make it so, if YOU WANT TO USE STEAM AND ARE CAUGHT CHEATING, YOU FORFEIT YOUR PRIVACY RIGHTS.. or something to that extent...What's the use in that? People who cheated once are not automatically second class citizens.

Zefar
10-26-2009, 09:40 AM
I think it's more about that those CAL/CPL tournament guys want to keep track of other people.

So that if someone happens to get banned he put it on private and claim he lost it to a scammer.

But those at CPL can just have some stricter rules. Like "NO PRIVATE Steam community pages" and it's solved.

Ayla
10-27-2009, 01:38 AM
People who cheated once ...
"Once"? Read again: 7 accounts, 3 of them banned.
RCL, CAL, ESL, ESEA, SGL ... doesn't matter! He's everywhere! :rolleyes:

http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4276164/
http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4261585/ - account deleted
http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4400212/ - account deleted
http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4494869/ - account deleted
http://clanbase.ggl.com/personinfo.php?pid=8243978
http://www.esportsea.com/users/386970
http://www.thesgl.com/user/56887/ ...

So, no more "second chance" here. I'm talking about leagues: real competition - not entertainment ... Am I right, ReBoot?

So, please make public and freeze (profile edit not possible) VAC banned profiles.

ReBoot
10-27-2009, 05:53 AM
"Once"? Read again: 7 accounts, 3 of them banned.
RCL, CAL, ESL, ESEA, SGL ... doesn't matter! He's everywhere! :rolleyes:

http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4276164/
http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4261585/ - account deleted
http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4400212/ - account deleted
http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4494869/ - account deleted
http://clanbase.ggl.com/personinfo.php?pid=8243978
http://www.esportsea.com/users/386970
http://www.thesgl.com/user/56887/ ...

So, no more "second chance" here. I'm talking about leagues: real competition - not entertainment ... Am I right, ReBoot?

So, please make public and freeze (profile edit not possible) VAC banned profiles.Ok, let me start again. Making VAC-banned profiles public won't help you at all, the cheater would just make his new profiles private and of course just use totally different profiles. You're also ignoring that there are cheaters out there who do learn or who are just account theft victims. Punish them because you tell so? And you're forgetting that there's a life outside of leagues. Punish the people I just mentioned because of some league needs although they don't play in one? That's cool, yes. And remember, this won't have any use anyway.
Again, no use, harm for some people=>bad idea.

Ayla
10-27-2009, 06:15 PM
No harm at all ... You're lost in your own comments...
What I ask it's very simple: public VAC banned profiles.

Well, this will help a lot in many ways...

What's the difference between these two guys?
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198012927327
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013200386

? I tell you: NO difference! Both cheaters but the second is the same guy claiming that his account was stolen.

After a while he appears with a new account, playing again in the league with cheats, and finally got banned:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013765382

Claming that he use just a bunny script, he bought a new account and start spamming and playing in the leagues again:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014536087

So, I don't care he's cheating as soon as he's playing on other servers. For me is very easy to trace him because I have his IPs. Others don't, and he is very convincing that, one day, he will become a GOD in CS:S ...

True story...

Please make these banned profiles as "public" and instantly block the users to change his details. THIS will help a lot in what we do.

ReBoot, the "harm" you're talking about is starting only when the cheater is caught in the middle of the competition ... claiming that he's a good player and we are bad persons ... He's not thinking a second that, playing with cheats, he continuously destroy this game, our servers, the leagues, the competition in general ... every single day!

So, since the VAC status is public, we've got a lot of clues for keeping these elements away from our communities and an idea...

Do you?

Haxy
10-27-2009, 06:59 PM
No, no and no.

It's wrong. Everyone has rights on privacy, whenever is "good" or "bad" person.

I know those are annoying problems, but "no can do".

Ayla
10-27-2009, 11:51 PM
I know those are annoying problems...
No, you don't!
As I can see, you even haven't got the idea. What privacy infringement you have seen in these details?

Steam Profile: Ҳ.ŤΣΔMگ | George

Profile _ :
i like cookies !!
-Sir' i think we are surounded !
-Excelent ! Now we can shoot in every direction !
cookieeeeeeeessssss

Gameplay Stats
Member since:August 19, 2009
Steam Rating:0
Playing time:0 hrs past 2 weeks
VAC status:ban(s) on record | ?
View all 4 games

Friends:
.............


So, no sensitive details! I'm not asking about STEAM username and password, real name or address ... but I'm very interested about his nick, date of achievement and his friends, which usually contain links to his old/new accounts...

So, why privacy it's so important for you (generally speaking) ... a real cheater? We all know that, after VAC ban, first step is to put the profile on private, change nick, remove all details (see above) and ... remove (almost) all his friends ... making the tracing harder, especially when you just won a local tournament ... cheating!

Got it now?

PS: I could bet ReBoot will come back with his well-know sentence: "Let the kid have his fun." :)
Well, there's no fun, dear ...

Haxy
10-28-2009, 12:50 AM
No, you don't!
As I can see, you even haven't got the idea. What privacy infringement you have seen in these details?



So, no sensitive details! I'm not asking about STEAM username and password, real name or address ... but I'm very interested about his nick, date of achievement and his friends, which usually contain links to his old/new accounts...

So, why privacy it's so important for you (generally speaking) ... a real cheater? We all know that, after VAC ban, first step is to put the profile on private, change nick, remove all details (see above) and ... remove (almost) all his friends ... making the tracing harder, especially when you just won a local tournament ... cheating!

Got it now?

PS: I could bet ReBoot will come back with his well-know sentence: "Let the kid have his fun." :)
Well, there's no fun, dear ...

For example, how many games someone owns, can be "sensitive" information and some people doesn't want to share that information.

I simply care about privacy on real life and on the internet. It's wrong to think I'm a cheater because I care about my and others' privacy.

And I know. I haven't played on "big" tournaments, but I still know how annoying those things are.

I'm against this suggestion and I hope Valve is against too.

ReBoot
10-28-2009, 04:43 AM
No harm at allOk, I have to start again.

Forcing VAC-banned people to make their profile public would be harm to all the people who learned from that and would like to keep on playing their unbanned games. And to all who got their account stolen.

The use of your suggestion is about 0 though. A cheater who's forced to make his profile publuc and want to keep on cheating would just create a new profile which is different. Ok, you said that you already made the connection between two totally different profiles using IPs. Not only is this wrong anyway (IPs are often dynamic), but you can already connect two total different profiles, be they private or not.

And finally, you're totally forgetting that there are people outside of leagues out there and that it's just not fair to force them into something only because of your league needs.

Ayla
10-28-2009, 11:51 AM
"Forcing" - "forced" - "force"!

Hey, ReBoot! What's all these about? How said to use "force"? I said "freeze/freezing" - different word/thing. Besides, it's only a "suggestion": do you know the term? Please let go this flame ... (PS: Do I know you? ...) and please add logic arguments for keeping a cheater's profiles as private ...

So, I have an idea of tracing cheaters in order to stop them to come back on our communities servers and could be applied everywhere. Do you have one? I've already asked you... Your answer = No!

OK. Shortly, since the beginning, our schema was very simple and we've asked VALVE for:
Cheater => VAC Status public = DONE!

After a while, we've record 2-3-more accounts of the same individual, keep playing with cheats on our servers. So, we decided to ask VALVE for:
Cheater => VAC Status & profile public = PENDING!
It would be great also if we will able to see the type of the ban HL1/HL2 in their profiles…

So, in any way you try to escape from that disgraceful status you'll be "forced" (now the word is correct) to buy another account to legit. If you'll continue to use cheats please let me try (at least) to protect my servers!...

Finally, you should think that all STEAM profile is unusable on legit servers since you're VAC banned. If you continue to play, means you are playing on cracked servers!
Is this allowed by VALVE? NO!


And now, the answer for Haxy ... :

Dear, Haxy, when you've signed on STEAM there is are rules based on Terms & Conditions you have to respect. If you use cheats and you don't know the consequences ... than, please read again and again this agreement (especially ch.5) not considering that you've been asked to read it before signing here:
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

QED


PS: I will change the title of this thread also. My mistake: is not about privacy but account details ...

ReBoot
10-28-2009, 12:36 PM
You still didn't even try to reply to my arguments.

Haxy
10-28-2009, 01:15 PM
And now, the answer for Haxy ... :

Dear, Haxy, when you've signed on STEAM there is are rules based on Terms & Conditions you have to respect. If you use cheats and you don't know the consequences ... than, please read again and again this agreement (especially ch.5) not considering that you've been asked to read it before signing here:
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

I know, that SSA doesn't allow using third party cheat applications to have unfair advantage, but how it's related to privacy?

I have a feeling you are just trolling here.

Ayla
10-28-2009, 05:05 PM
You still didn't even try to reply to my arguments.
Well, I didn't... It's easy for you to throw with words instead of tiring to understand the real issue.
Still have in mind your post on the other thread: "Let the kid have his fun."
So, since for you it's just about fun...

... but how it's related to privacy?
I have a feeling you are just trolling here.[/
Before "feelings" and jumping in conclusions, I kindly ask you to read carefully the SA one more time, especially the 5th Chapter...

So according to:
You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software.
and:
Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat...
I found my suggestion more than justified.

@ VALVE: Thanks in advance for your consideration.

Pickanewnameplzkthx
10-29-2009, 01:52 AM
Ayla, I tell you what you need to do is get that guys IP, whois it, find out who he is and get his service terminated. That one you posted about is not just a cheat, he's a damned Troll. Contact his ISP, and keep doing it. Eventually he will run out of ISP's and be stuck to getting one of those lowlife ISP accounts and will have to hide behind a Proxy which will basically ruin his connection and then he won't be able to connect anymore.

Don't play musical chairs with these types. The only way they'll learn is the hard way. They really think it's a game. Run them down, and get their ticket pulled. You never know after a few times of that, maybe it'll knock some sense into them and they'll play right, although I doubt it.

Look at the time you've already spend playing musical chairs with that guy. You could've traced him and had his service terminated alot quicker. Most decent ISP's do not put up with that, and harrassment is against their ToS. You've got the proof. Send it to them. Most reputable ISP will do something.

The rerason he keeps coming back for more is becasue he CAN. As long as you continue to let him have free reign of the Internet he'll just keep doing it. He has no reason to stop. Seriously. Get this guys IP, look it up, and call his ISP up on the phone, and tell them what this nut has been doing on their service.

Haxy
10-29-2009, 09:36 AM
*text*

As I mentioned earlier, I know what SSA includes since I accepted it, but that part doesn't mean VAC-banned user must lose his/her privacy.

Ayla
10-29-2009, 05:45 PM
Haxy, as I mentioned earlier either (see #18), it was my mistake stating about "privacy" - it's about account details ... So, reffering to privacy was only a sarcastic remark. I've already changed the title of this topic ...

Ayla, I tell you what you need to do is get that guys IP, whois it, find out who he is and get his service terminated. That one you posted about is not just a cheat, he's a damned Troll.
Thanks for your comment, but running to his ISP I will solve nothing, trust me ... For sure, they will not terminate their service with this guy. Instead, they will change his IP. It happened before…

As I've suggested, we only need those details before he could change them after a VAC ban. There are a lot of players in the same situation: several accounts, most of them VAC banned. Tracing them is a very annoying process and, sometimes, very frustrating...

I have one - you won't believe - 13 accounts in 2 years, 11 of them VAC banned!... He's sick, I think...

VALVE is the only authority who can help us in fighting against these cheaters. They should issue a policy against cheating for CS:S and all other games. VAC status was the real deal but we need just a little more help to be able to deal with these multi-accounts cheaters.

Pickanewnameplzkthx
10-29-2009, 07:41 PM
13 accounts in 2 years?!? That's insane! Multiply that times what just one game costs. Man, you're not kidding. You seriously have to be insane to do stuff like that. I mean literally. Something has to be seriously wrong with that individuals wiring. You really do have some problems to deal with. This is precisely why I despise these types.

You're right, VALVe need to help Admins win the war against them, and it is a war. As long as there are no consequences for doing it they'll just keep on.

There has got to be a way to keep up with therse individuals. Yeah, 1 time cheating I can see. I wouldn't do it, but people make mistakes. 2 times should result in you becoming known. 3 times? You're out never to play again.

BTW guys, you know what they do to people who cheat in Benchmarking? They ban them FOREVER from HWBot, the word travels around to all the OC'ing forums and they are warned about what they did and who they are, they are cutoff from the Orb FOREVER, and no company will ever trust them, and if they ever look for company support and are good enough to get it and do sponsored OC'ing and Benching they will never get it. That's for doing it just one time. If you are caught you are finished. They go after fake benches with a vengeance. That's just an example.

There is no reason why this stuff cannot be erradicated with the technology we have. It can be done. It is ruining PC Multiplayer Gaming. The honest people who play fair are really sick of it.

ReBoot
10-29-2009, 08:24 PM
I still wonder how people associate totally different profiles to each other. It's not like IPs would have any meaning in this world.

Haxy
10-30-2009, 12:38 AM
Account details are private information as well.

Ayla
10-30-2009, 01:32 AM
Account details are private information as well.
Seems that you're stuck into this ... So, please let me to clarify this aspect:
Once VAC banned, "Gameplay Stats" and "Friends" sections should become public.
Where do you see private/sensible account details there?!

Later today, (maybe) I will give you a perfect example of non-trusted player (playing with cheats in ESL) and, because I don't have access to his account details, I cannot prove that he's a liar, he claiming that we was banned on HL1 by mistake, somewhere in 2003!... :D We all know that that's a big lie ... but this is another story.
So, please stop stating that you need "privacy", reffering to your profile on SC, since you're nothing more than a ... cheater.


I still wonder how people associate totally different profiles to each other. It's not like IPs would have any meaning in this world.
It's very easy, if the profile is public or available for Friends ... As admin, you should move very fast, before the owner have the chance to change something. Usually, I note the players (read "cheaters") before VAC ban. I have a rate of 95%. The rest of them become only suspects. But, in time they suddenly starts to play awfully or get VAC banned ... Their voice is another element taken in consideration.



BTW guys, you know what they do to people who cheat in Benchmarking? They ban them FOREVER from HWBot ...
In my opinion, VAC is doing the perfect job but a little bit too late. HLStatsX, Steambans and Surian & AnAkIn are doing a great job. Injecting cheaters in their databases, we are able now to trace them faster. And, of course, Google. Google is our best friend. :D
If you know nothing about all these tools, you're a fake admin ...


13 accounts in 2 years?!? That's insane! Multiply that times what just one game costs. Man, you're not kidding.
...
There has got to be a way to keep up with therse individuals. Yeah, 1 time cheating I can see. I wouldn't do it, but people make mistakes. 2 times should result in you becoming known. 3 times? You're out never to play again.

First of all, I'm a lady. ;)
OKI, indeed, 1-2-3 times is acceptable, but not in the leagues!
For example, ESL removes any proved cheaters duplicate accounts - they said.

"Insane": this word scares me... They look like usual players, very friendly, not very reach but with a great appetite to become "Pro" or "Gods" in CS:S, looking for "celebrity", especially in the leagues. As soon they are VAC banned, they buy another account, sometimes are changing their IP but never quit playing with cheats...

I have here two perfect examples. I'm sure you'll be shocked...

Mr.HELL aka Marlboro - romanian in Italy (7+1)
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988795006 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197998992722 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197999222509 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197999335021 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197999493445 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198001017988 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198002143569 - last unbanned account
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198002168394 - VAC banned

Mr.OnilL aka Gαиgsτα - romanian in UK (11+2)
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197977935989 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197984361911 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988672151 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988885004 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197993148892 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197993997335 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197994170903 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197995983542 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197997109973 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197997411915 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198000300414 - VAC banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198008605678 - last account
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198003771463 - new ESL account(!)
http://www.esl.eu/es/player/4227549/

If you noticed, the STEAM ID of the account associated with the ESL Account is STEAM_0:1:21752867. If you're looking here, you'll see that the last number (7) is missing = 0:1:2175286:
http://www.esl.eu/es/player/gameaccounts/4227549/
Tricky isn't it? ;) So, this STEAM ID could not be traced on STEAM and this convinces me that even ESL not checking all these cheaters duplicate accounts... A real cheater! :o

So, do you think we should give them another "second chance" or we should give them the chance to hide, "protecting" their "privacy", ah sorry - "famous details" I meant ?! ...
;)

ReBoot
10-30-2009, 05:17 AM
Your hate for cheaters is large, really. But you're still forgetting the fact that many cheaters learn from it or are just account theft victims. And you don't have the right to punish them only because of your league needs. Additionally, e-mail addresses are avaible for free so making account data public again won't help you.

Haxy
10-30-2009, 07:29 AM
Seems that you're stuck into this ... So, please let me to clarify this aspect:
Once VAC banned, "Gameplay Stats" and "Friends" sections should become public.
Where do you see private/sensible account details there?!

Later today, (maybe) I will give you a perfect example of non-trusted player (playing with cheats in ESL) and, because I don't have access to his account details, I cannot prove that he's a liar, he claiming that we was banned on HL1 by mistake, somewhere in 2003!... :D We all know that that's a big lie ... but this is another story.
So, please stop stating that you need "privacy", reffering to your profile on SC, since you're nothing more than a ... cheater.

I said earlier, that "gameplay stats" can be sensitive information to some people.

My Steamcommunity profile is friends only because I don't want share some of my information to everyone. That doesn't mean I'm a cheater, so stop calling me one.

What if someone got really banned by mistake (There is false-positive VAC bans happened on past and malware can trigger VAC ban)?
Stop calling someone liar without any proof. It is quite "immature".

Pickanewnameplzkthx
10-30-2009, 10:26 AM
What Ayla is proposing is only for Cheaters, so if you're not cheating what would you be concerned with? You have nothing to worry about if you don't cheat. This is an outstanding idea, and I will push for it from now until it is implemented.

Cheaters most certainly do deserve to be punished. That's the problem now. They get by with that ♥♥♥♥ because they CAN, and people have had it. Until something is done about this, MP Game play online is gonna continue to be ruined, and if it's not cleaned up, one day it will all but cease to exist.

This damned cheating is gonna stop...one way or another.

Haxy
10-30-2009, 11:13 AM
What Ayla is proposing is only for Cheaters, so if you're not cheating what would you be concerned with? You have nothing to worry about if you don't cheat. This is an outstanding idea, and I will push for it from now until it is implemented.

Cheaters most certainly do deserve to be punished. That's the problem now. They get by with that ♥♥♥♥ because they CAN, and people have had it. Until something is done about this, MP Game play online is gonna continue to be ruined, and if it's not cleaned up, one day it will all but cease to exist.

This damned cheating is gonna stop...one way or another.

Cheaters gets punished all the time. That's why there is VAC system.

It's now about privacy; not everyone doesn't want share them information even they are VAC banned (Cheaters aren't second class citizen, as ReBoot mentioned earlier).
Everyone needs their privacy and have rights on privacy. Games owned and game times can be private information, if someone wants so. Who is friend with can be private information too (It's not so well "protected" as games owned, but still).

Pickanewnameplzkthx
10-30-2009, 11:54 AM
Cheaters gets punished all the time. That's why there is VAC system.

It's now about privacy; not everyone doesn't want share them information even they are VAC banned (Cheaters aren't second class citizen, as ReBoot mentioned earlier).
Everyone needs their privacy and have rights on privacy. Games owned and game times can be private information, if someone wants so. Who is friend with can be private information too (It's not so well "protected" as games owned, but still).

VAC is not working to keep these revolving door cheaters out. That's what this is about and giving back Admin control to keep out lowlife individuals who time and time again just keep coming back and cheating. For those who make a mistake once, people are forgiving, and those who fess up and apologize generally get welcomed back, but for those who don't, and just wanna keep it up, this is a good way to find them, and keep them out for good.

If you want privacy, then don't cheat. It's that simple. It's been said many times in this thread. If you don't cheat then this has nothing to do with you. It will only affect those who cheat.

I'm not the least bit concerned about my privacy, because I'm not gonna give it up by cheating. It's real easy.

I agree that Cheaters aren't second class citizens. They should not be citizens at all. They give that up when they cheat. People already know who they are as evidenced by Ayla's post, but it is causing her too much work to hunt these individuals down.

Haxy
10-30-2009, 03:21 PM
VAC is not working to keep these revolving door cheaters out. That's what this is about and giving back Admin control to keep out lowlife individuals who time and time again just keep coming back and cheating. For those who make a mistake once, people are forgiving, and those who fess up and apologize generally get welcomed back, but for those who don't, and just wanna keep it up, this is a good way to find them, and keep them out for good.

If you want privacy, then don't cheat. It's that simple. It's been said many times in this thread. If you don't cheat then this has nothing to do with you. It will only affect those who cheat.

I'm not the least bit concerned about my privacy, because I'm not gonna give it up by cheating. It's real easy.

I agree that Cheaters aren't second class citizens. They should not be citizens at all. They give that up when they cheat. People already know who they are as evidenced by Ayla's post, but it is causing her too much work to hunt these individuals down.

Do you actually know how important privacy is?

If server has active admins, cheaters aren't a problem or anything.

Cheaters are "citizens" like you. They are rights on privacy as you have.

It's not so simple as you might imagine.

MackP
10-30-2009, 04:23 PM
I've read all the posts in this topic, and I support your idea Ayla.
I hate cheaters as well, even though I haven't had that much trouble with them.
Some people in here, namely ReBoot and Haxy, are trying to make this look like USA Patriot Act or something. Don't be afraid, it's not. :)
If it's going to help stop the cheaters more effectively, I'm willing to give up some of my "precious" Steam "privacy".
I don't cheat, so I don't have to worry about that, thank you very much.
So one more time, Ayla go for it.

Pickanewnameplzkthx
10-30-2009, 04:42 PM
Yep, I too am gonna support this, and will spend whatever resources necessary it takes to get it implemented. If that takes years so be it. We got a real war going on here in MP, and it's a war the cheaters aren't gonna win. That's how determined we have got to be. It's already been proven by Ayla just how dtermined these individuals are to ruin a game. It's time to fight back and prove that we're more determined than they are.

People can try to rationalize it or justify it, or take up for cheaters all they want, but the fact remains that they do not have the right to cheat on people's private servers, and we are gonna do something about it.

In the case of what that one individual was doing and still does becasue he's allowed to hide behind aliases and jump from accont to account, he's nothing but a common criminal.

Ayla lemme know what kind of support you need, and I'll be more than happy to do it. 2nd that on the go for it.

Ayla
10-30-2009, 07:21 PM
Your hate for cheaters is large, really.
Again, your comment is very personal ... OKI, I'll accept it. Anyway, for you it's only about fun, as you said. As I can see, it's too hard for you to accept this as a suggestion for VALVE, not for you.

I said earlier, that "gameplay stats" can be sensitive information to some people.
OK... Please mention one. I will ignore the rest of your comment since it is very clear for me that you have no skills in hunting cheaters, VAC bans, etc.

Playing with cheats you'll be permanently banned. Never heard a cheater banned "by mistake" and than unbanned (except cybercafe or developer accounts) ... Too much theory, Haxy.

LE:

Stop calling someone liar without any proof. It is quite "immature".
Haxy, do you know that, since 2005 (VAC2), all VAC bans are permanent? It would be very hard for me to believe that you didn't. Besides, I really don't know how you could start such a sensible conversation having no valuable information, accusing me for "trolling"?!... I even don't know what that is?! :D.

You said "immature" - well, I'm too old for this, dear ... OKI?

OK, as I've told you earlier, I have another perfect example of non-trusted player (playing with cheats in ESL) and, because I don't have access to his account details ("Member since" field), I cannot prove that he's not only a cheater but also a liar. He claims that he was banned on HL1/CS1.6 by mistake, long time before, somewhere in 2003! Well, we all know that that's a big lie since, before 2005, all VAC (VAC1) bans has been applied for 1 or 5 years only. So, being in 2009 this gentleman should be unbanned, if he tells the truth, but he is still banned:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963400969 - (still) VAC banned
http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4113033/

In this case, I need only that "so sensitive" field for you named ... "Member since: ......”


MackP and T_Flight, thank you very much for your comments and kind support!

As I've suggested, after the cheater is VAC banned, his SC profile should become public, especially the "Gameplay Stats" and "Friends" sections.
.

Pickanewnameplzkthx
10-31-2009, 12:22 AM
Again, your comment is very personal ... OKI, I'll accept it. Anyway, for you it's only about fun, as you said. As I can see, it's too hard for you to accept this as a suggestion for VALVE, not for you.


OK... Please mention one. I will ignore the rest of your comment since it is very clear for me that you have no skills in hunting cheaters, VAC bans, etc.

Playing with cheats you'll be permanently banned. Never heard a cheater banned "by mistake" and than unbanned (except cybercafe or developer accounts) ... Too much theory, Haxy.

LE:


Haxy, do you know that, since 2005 (VAC2), all VAC bans are permanent? It would be very hard for me to believe that you didn't. Besides, I really don't know how you could start such a sensible conversation having no valuable information, accusing me for "trolling"?!... I even don't know what that is?! :D.

You said "immature" - well, I'm too old for this, dear ... OKI?

OK, as I've told you earlier, I have another perfect example of non-trusted player (playing with cheats in ESL) and, because I don't have access to his account details ("Member since" field), I cannot prove that he's not only a cheater but also a liar. He claims that he was banned on HL1/CS1.6 by mistake, long time before, somewhere in 2003! Well, we all know that that's a big lie since, before 2005, all VAC (VAC1) bans has been applied for 1 or 5 years only. So, being in 2009 this gentleman should be unbanned, if he tells the truth, but he is still banned:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963400969 - (still) VAC banned
http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4113033/

In this case, I need only that "so sensitive" field for you named ... "Member since: ......”


MackP and T_Flight, thank you very much for your comments and kind support!

As I've suggested, after the cheater is VAC banned, his SC profile should become public, especially the "Gameplay Stats" and "Friends" sections.
.


If we have to, I'll sign a legal petition. I don't think it'll need to get that formal, but I'd do it. Lemme know when you start to go forward with it, and I will send a formal e-mail to them as well.

I've been holding this back for a long time, and am not gonna bite my tongue anymore on it, but stuff like this is exactly why I quit gaming for a few years. I detest it, and it completely ruined the game. I had pateince galore with it, and actually helped newcomers out of jams when "accidents" happened. You know...those Blue on Blue situations. Anyhow, my patience wore out with the cheaters. I come back to it, and what do I see? It's worse. Worse than ever before, and not only is it worse, they are ruining some of the very best games out there. It is time for that to end, and everybody will be alot better off. Accidental Blue on Blues are nothing.

What we are talking about here are people that whatever their malfunction is just keep coming back over and over and never learn. Cheating is against the SSA (Steam Subsciber Agreement), and it's perfectly within VALVe's rights to maintain free and fair play on the servers that use their VAC service. That doesn't even take into consideration that the people that run these servers do so in their own free time, and it's their own private property they share with the community. You have got to have respect for those people or one day they won't be there anymore, and the neither will the players, and then all it will be is one big cheatfest.

This isn't a democracy. This is people who are "allowed" in to people's servers. It's not a right. Only by their free gift to the community do you have the priveledge of having a place to connect to and play MP. It is very easy to loose that. All one has to do is just have the thought "You know, I've had it, and it's futile trying to keep it fair, so..." Start--->Shutdown--->Monitor Off--->PSU Switch Off and that server would not be in the list again. Man, that's pretty final, and it's something I hope we don't see, because then the cheaters will have truly won the complete destruction of fair gaming on good servers and there won't be anymore.

Haxy
10-31-2009, 04:36 AM
Playing with cheats you'll be permanently banned. Never heard a cheater banned "by mistake" and than unbanned (except cybercafe or developer accounts) ... Too much theory, Haxy.
As I said, don't call someone cheater without proofs.
And I recommend you to read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat#False-positive_detections


Haxy, do you know that, since 2005 (VAC2), all VAC bans are permanent? It would be very hard for me to believe that you didn't. Besides, I really don't know how you could start such a sensible conversation having no valuable information, accusing me for "trolling"?!... I even don't know what that is?! :D.

You said "immature" - well, I'm too old for this, dear ... OKI?
I knew that already. And if you really don't know, what mean trolling, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 (There is actually more definitions for troll, but anyway).

And age doesn't tell is person childish or not.

OK, as I've told you earlier, I have another perfect example of non-trusted player (playing with cheats in ESL) and, because I don't have access to his account details ("Member since" field), I cannot prove that he's not only a cheater but also a liar. He claims that he was banned on HL1/CS1.6 by mistake, long time before, somewhere in 2003! Well, we all know that that's a big lie since, before 2005, all VAC (VAC1) bans has been applied for 1 or 5 years only. So, being in 2009 this gentleman should be unbanned, if he tells the truth, but he is still banned:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963400969 - (still) VAC banned
http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/4113033/

In this case, I need only that "so sensitive" field for you named ... "Member since: ......”

It's sensitive information for some users too. Everyone doesn't want share what you would share.

MackP
10-31-2009, 07:26 AM
As I said, don't call someone cheater without proofs.
And I recommend you to read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat#False-positive_detections

I knew that already. And if you really don't know, what mean trolling, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 (There is actually more definitions for troll, but anyway).

And age doesn't tell is person childish or not.

It's sensitive information for some users too. Everyone doesn't want share what you would share.
Well, Haxy, to be honest, you are the one looking childish and immature here. You are obstructing discussion on this topic just because you're scared of anyone knowing your friends list and a few other minor informations.
As a side note, you are the one without any proof of anything here. Ayla has proven her point: she said VAC banned users would have their privacy revoked (a few minor informations). If you say you don't want to lose your privacy, that would mean you are VAC banned. Am I missing anything here?
And what gives you the right to speak for everyone here?
You said "not everyone wants to share that information", well I do, so there goes your "voice of people" down the drain.
And you do look like a troll to me. Why?
Because you have said your mind: you don't want to share your information. Fine. Now leave the topic. Your post will be taken into consideration. But you just keep coming back spamming your declaration of privacy, basically obstructing other people to discuss this any further.
If people are against it, I'm sure it will show up in a possible poll if this comes into consideration.
So to recap, you've said you're against it. Good. Now please move on.

EDIT
And to correct myself: in my previous post I've said I don't mind giving up some of my privacy, but that won't be necessary, because I'm not a cheater. :D Only VAC banned cheaters would suffer. And they should according to SSA.
Nothing more to prove. Steam can implement this feature immediately without any further discussion.

Ayla
10-31-2009, 07:34 AM
As I said, don't call someone cheater without proofs.
Well, dear Haxy, I think, I've posted here enough proofs ... Please, open your eyes ... Why are you so ill-disposed ?

Are you playing just for fun on public servers or just in competitions/leagues? ;)

And please tell me, are all these private or sensitive information?

Haxorfox
STEAM_0:1:13841329 / 76561197987948387
http://steamcommunity.com/id/haxorfox/
Member since: February 4, 2007
Motto: "Who the hell cares who am I?"
Account value: $909.51
IP: 88.112.7x.2x
Finland
Disclamer: These details were collected from G00gle in less than 2 minutes.


Only VAC banned cheaters would suffer. And they should according to SSA. Nothing more to prove. Steam can implement this feature immediately without any further discussion.
Exactly! You've exposed in just few words exactly the essence of this discussion. Thanks! }{

MackP
10-31-2009, 10:31 AM
Exactly! You've exposed in just few words exactly the essence of this discussion. Thanks! }{
Glad to be of some help. ;)
Oh, and I meant VALVe, not Steam. :)

Haxy
10-31-2009, 11:51 AM
Well, dear Haxy, I think, I've posted here enough proofs ... Please, open your eyes ... Why are you so ill-disposed ?

Are you playing just for fun on public servers or just in competitions/leagues? ;)

And please tell me, are all these private or sensitive information?



No, just saying "There are same accounts" aren't good proof enough.

I mostly play in one public server, but I have played few times in little tournaments (FPSBanana's little tounament some months ago, second place).

Account value is a bit sensitive information (My account is worth more currently), but my IP-address is sensitive information (Where is it from?).

@MackP: First of all, what am I supposed to proof here? How privacy is important or what?
Secondly, you are not everyone else, remember that.

I'm not scared to show who is on my friend list or how many friend I have. I'm here to "Protect" them, who will be affected about this suggestion.

Ayla
10-31-2009, 01:14 PM
Where is it from?
Told you already ...
I'm here to "Protect" them, who will be affected about this suggestion.
We are talking here about VAC banned accounts = cheaters.
So, are you here to "protect" them?... Sorry, I don't get it...
:confused:

Haxy
10-31-2009, 01:24 PM
Told you already ...

We are talking here about VAC banned accounts = cheaters.
So, are you here to "protect" them?... Sorry, I don't get it...
:confused:

Google is not a proper source - there must be link to other website, where you found this all information.

All users, who got VAC banned, aren't cheaters.
And yes, I basically "protect" them, because this suggestion is bad and wrong for them.

Ayla
10-31-2009, 02:25 PM
All users, who got VAC banned, aren't cheaters. And yes, I basically "protect" them, because this suggestion is bad and wrong for them.

WOW! I can't believe my eyes! Dear, how many accounts VAC banned do you have? Now I get it ... You're trolling (your word, not mine) here because you're just another cheater or what? hihihih
WOW! No wonder you were against this suggestion all this time.

OKI. Now, I kindly ask you to leave this topic. God!... :(

Teh_Guy
10-31-2009, 03:03 PM
You are obstructing discussion on this topic just because you're scared of anyone knowing your friends list and a few other minor informations.


Yes, and phishers who know your friends, and successfully hijack them, can be very dangerous to the untrained steam user. Sometimes I wonder if people will look at both sides of an argument (AKA the positives of this [which I do find useful as it gives me a list of people I need to look out for] and the negatives)

I'll hit some of the positives of this.(well, for me anyway)
1. Useful for banning someone from your server.
2. Useful for tracking on a list of people to stay away from
3. something about their friends that I forgot while typing this..
4. something else I may have forgotten.

Negatives to this (again, in my view)
1. phishers, period.
2. as Haxy has said, what games someone has can be private. I don't think you'd want someone stalking you through all your games now do you? (i don't think how much you play, when you signed up, steam score, and the etc. I do agree that people have a right to privacy over some things, and again, I don't think you'd want to be tracked through everything you do.)
2 1/2. this thing has more positives than negatives.

Really, I don't care if this gets passed or not...(well if I'm posting on the topic, then maybe I do..)

Haxy
10-31-2009, 03:11 PM
WOW! I can't believe my eyes! Dear, how many accounts VAC banned do you have? Now I get it ... You're trolling (your word, not mine) here because you're just another cheater or what? hihihih
WOW! No wonder you were against this suggestion all this time.

OKI. Now, I kindly ask you to leave this topic. God!... :(

I only have one Steam account and it's not VAC-banned.
I have never used any cheats in any game, because they are lame.

Cheaters are lame, but still they have rights on their privacy.

KilpiBan
10-31-2009, 03:14 PM
WOW! I can't believe my eyes! Dear, how many accounts VAC banned do you have? Now I get it ... You're trolling (your word, not mine) here because you're just another cheater or what? hihihih
WOW! No wonder you were against this suggestion all this time.

OKI. Now, I kindly ask you to leave this topic. God!... :(

God... what the ♥♥♥♥ am I reading here? I personally know haxy and I know that he doesn't have any VAC-banned accounts and yes, there really are people who want to keep some things private! You wanna share your bank account details? Fine, just put them up to your steam ID-page which is an open book, that contains very personal and vulnerable information. You, Ayla, should leave this whole ♥♥♥♥ing forum immediately!

EDIT: To stay on the original topic, I think that feature is not necessary. As earlier mentioned, the person can and most of time, will change his information per account.

Pickanewnameplzkthx
10-31-2009, 04:04 PM
Ayla, another suggestion is to get the leagues, and as many of the experienced folks as you can in on this and try to get all those people to send in e-mails to VALVe and we might wanna get everybody together into one e-mail to show how serious a problem this is. Kinda like a petition. For trolls like you have been dealing with I have some other ideas, and will contact you in private on that. They may think they can hide behind a KB, but the fact is they cannot. These individuals can also be exposed on a large website for who they really are. That one with 13 accounts definitely qualifies for that.

Yes Ma'am, times are gonna be changin'. :cool:

MackP
10-31-2009, 05:47 PM
STEAM SUBSCRIBER AGREEMENT
5. ONLINE CONDUCT, CHEATING AND ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR

You agree that you will be personally responsible for the use of your Account and for all of the communication and activity on Steam that results from use of your Account. Your online conduct and interaction with other subscribers should be guided by common sense and basic etiquette. Specific requirements may also be found in the Steam Online Conduct rules at http://steampowered.com/index.php?area=online_conduct, other Rules of Use, the Subscription Terms, or in terms of use required by third parties who host particular games or other services.

Steam and the Steam Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Steam Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof ("Cheats"). You agree that you will not create or assist third parties in any way to create Cheats. You agree that you will not directly or indirectly disable, circumvent, or otherwise interfere with the operation of software designed to prevent or report the use of Cheats. You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software. Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts for Valve products. Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.

If VALVe can terminate someone's account because of cheating, it can reveal his informations even easier.

MackP
10-31-2009, 05:52 PM
God... what the ♥♥♥♥ am I reading here? I personally know haxy and I know that he doesn't have any VAC-banned accounts and yes, there really are people who want to keep some things private! You wanna share your bank account details? Fine, just put them up to your steam ID-page which is an open book, that contains very personal and vulnerable information. You, Ayla, should leave this whole ♥♥♥♥ing forum immediately!

EDIT: To stay on the original topic, I think that feature is not necessary. As earlier mentioned, the person can and most of time, will change his information per account.
Join date: October 2009
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1

Yeah...I believe you...Haxy.


EDIT
How do I know? Watch...
I only have one Steam account and it's not VAC-banned.
I have never used any cheats in any game, because they are lame.

Cheaters are lame, but still they have rights on their privacy.
I personally know haxy and I know that he doesn't have any VAC-banned accounts and yes, there really are people who want to keep some things private!

Pickanewnameplzkthx
10-31-2009, 06:02 PM
STEAM SUBSCRIBER AGREEMENT


If VALVe can terminate someone's account because of cheating, it can reveal his informations even easier.

...and they can communicate the history of using those cheats to any online MP Server admin.

That's agreed to, and is a open and shut case. That is precisely what we are doing here.

Pickanewnameplzkthx
10-31-2009, 06:05 PM
Join date: October 2009
Reputation: 0
Posts: 1

Yeah...I believe you...Haxy.


EDIT
How do I know? Watch...


I think an IP match is in order here. Mods, what do you think about that? I'll bet it originates from the same ISP!

BTW, Mack, I did see it before he edited it and will vouch for the quote you made. That IS real, and was the original Quote before it was edited.

Ayla
11-01-2009, 12:43 AM
All users, who got VAC banned, aren't cheaters. And yes, I basically "protect" them, because this suggestion is bad and wrong for them.
You, Ayla, should leave this whole ♥♥♥♥ing forum immediately!

As I said earlier, I kindly ask you to leave this topic. You and your clone either... :(

Haxy
11-01-2009, 01:38 AM
Meh, KilpiBan is my classmate. This is his Steamcommunity account: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198002157613

I showed this thread to him and he decided to join and post.

And I will not leave this thread, because there might be nobody else "protecting" them from this suggestion.

Why don't you add "No private Steam community profiles" rule on your league, if you seriously want to know who player is?
You really can't know is he same person or not anyway.

Ayla
11-01-2009, 01:58 AM
Trust me, I can ...
Oho! So, I should show this topic to all my Friends in the list because you're a forum spammer? Well, I don't need "help" as you need... I beat you already, from the moment you've stated that:
All users, who got VAC banned, aren't cheaters. And yes, I basically "protect" them, because this suggestion is bad and wrong for them.
As I can see, your fiend just signed here to tell me:
You, Ayla, should leave this whole ♥♥♥♥ing forum immediately!

WOW! Nice comment ... You have a great community there. :))) Could you please ask all to join here to swear and abuse, dear ... Hax-Haxy-Haxorfox-Spammer?!

Haxy
11-01-2009, 01:18 AM
Trust me, I can ...
Oho! So, I should show this topic to all my Friends in the list because you're a forum spammer? Well, I don't need "help" as you need... I beat you already, from the moment you've stated that:

As I can see, your fiend just signed here to tell me:

WOW! Nice comment ... You have a great community there. :))) Could you please ask all to join here to swear and abuse, dear ... Hax-Haxy-Haxorfox-Spammer?!

I'm not here to spam.

And I really don't understand, what you mean with that?
Me "protecting" them doesn't mean I am a bad person.

My friend joined to... well, discuss about your suggestion.
I know, it's too "flamish" message and I can't help it.

But on serious note I think you really don't understand how important privacy is to others than to you. As I said earlier, nobody wants share everything, example is amount of Steam games.
I, example, want keep it private to me and to users, who is on my friend list.

Something says this suggestion is not going trough anyway.

KilpiBan
11-01-2009, 03:09 AM
Ok mods! Time to lock this pathetic excuse of a thread to prevent more mutilation against Haxy who, btw, has done none of those things Ayla and MackP are saying. I also am not Haxy and here's my proof: KilpiBan's Steam Community page. (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198002157613)
Now... why the ♥♥♥♥ am I playing totally different set of games compared to haxy except for those, which are owned by absolutely every single steam user (tf2, l4d) if you say I really am Haxy?
Why would I reveal information that Haxy didn't in his so-called VAC-banned account if I was Haxy?
Why can Haxy play in VAC-secured servers if his account is VAC-banned (oh btw, MackP... people do spell it the same way).

Ayla
11-01-2009, 03:28 AM
As I said earlier, nobody wants share everything, example is amount of Steam games.
Well, I agree with that. This could remain private. As soon as you got banned = cheater, I don't care how many games you have.

Why don't you add "No private Steam community profiles" rule on your league, if you seriously want to know who player is?
Is not about before but after VAC ban.
Please read carefully. You're continuously spamming because you're mixing the things... Please, try to stay on topic.

... Why can Haxy play in VAC-secured servers if his account is VAC-banned ...
WOW! Man, you're lost ... Could you please stay on topic? Nobody claimed that Haxy's account is banned ... LOL

Besides, that "proof" could be very well another Haxy account :))

Haxy
11-01-2009, 07:07 AM
Well, I agree with that. This could remain private. As soon as you got banned = cheater, I don't care how many games you have.


Is not about before but after VAC ban.
Please read carefully. You're continuously spamming because you're mixing the things... Please, try to stay on topic.

It's have been told you many times; VAC-banned user is not always a cheater.
There is situations, where user's account has been hijacked and used for using cheats what triggers VAC ban.
Other things, what can trigger VAC ban is malware (Viruses).

Also these can trigger VAC ban: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat#False-positive_detections

Yes, it would be before VAC ban, but it would be better than making all VAC-banned users "second class citizens", you know (It would be still wrong, when thinking privacy, but better that than making VAC-banned users second class citizens).

Teh_Guy
11-01-2009, 03:22 PM
It's have been told you many times; VAC-banned user is not always a cheater.
There is situations, where user's account has been hijacked and used for using cheats what triggers VAC ban.
Other things, what can trigger VAC ban is malware (Viruses).


Yes, most VACed accounts are people who have been hijacked due to poor security measures on their PC and shouldn't be forced to have their information shown to the viewing Steam community.

As for the maleware part, the person could have downloaded a cheat, and have gotten a virus on the side (I wish that would happen more..it might stop them from cheating for fear of a virus). Frankly, it's hard to get certain types of maleware unless you do/get things that you shouldn't have done/gotten in the first place.

Haxy
11-01-2009, 05:13 PM
Yes, most VACed accounts are people who have been hijacked due to poor security measures on their PC and shouldn't be forced to have their information shown to the viewing Steam community.

As for the maleware part, the person could have downloaded a cheat, and have gotten a virus on the side (I wish that would happen more..it might stop them from cheating for fear of a virus). Frankly, it's hard to get certain types of maleware unless you do/get things that you shouldn't have done/gotten in the first place.

It can be possible, that person has downloaded "cheat" what really was malware.
But when you browse on the internet without proper anti-virus program, you easily get some malware, what can trigger VAC ban.

Pickanewnameplzkthx
11-01-2009, 05:25 PM
Make up all the excuses you want Haxy, and spam away until you and your alter ego get banned, but you still cannot justify or rationalize covering for cheaters no matter how cute you try to make it sound.

We're not interested in making revolving door cheaters "second class citizens" that's what YOU said. We're interested in making them *NON-Citizens*. People that run servers have every right to keep these individuals OUT of their private property, and we're gonna do just that.

There is no rationalization or justification for trying to cover that up, unless you have something to hide. If you do, then I could understand all this spamming in this thread, because you would quickly realize your days are numbered. That's just for the sake of argument of course.

That's exactly why this is going somewhere, and tomorrow, I will be having a detailed letter I typed up proof read, and it will be sent. I'm also gonna get as many folks as I can that are fed up with it to send in similar letters. Believe me when I tell you, this idea is not gonna disapear. Whether it takes days, months, or even years, it will be at the forefront in the list of projects I have undertaken, and we have others here as well that are just as firmly committed.

For the rest of the folks that are growing tired of reading all this spam, I'd highly recommend placing this user Haxy aka KilpiBan on Ignore until the mods deal with him, because it's only a matter of time.

Haxy
11-01-2009, 11:17 PM
Make up all the excuses you want Haxy, and spam away until you and your alter ego get banned, but you still cannot justify or rationalize covering for cheaters no matter how cute you try to make it sound.

We're not interested in making revolving door cheaters "second class citizens" that's what YOU said. We're interested in making them *NON-Citizens*. People that run servers have every right to keep these individuals OUT of their private property, and we're gonna do just that.

There is no rationalization or justification for trying to cover that up, unless you have something to hide. If you do, then I could understand all this spamming in this thread, because you would quickly realize your days are numbered. That's just for the sake of argument of course.

That's exactly why this is going somewhere, and tomorrow, I will be having a detailed letter I typed up proof read, and it will be sent. I'm also gonna get as many folks as I can that are fed up with it to send in similar letters. Believe me when I tell you, this idea is not gonna disapear. Whether it takes days, months, or even years, it will be at the forefront in the list of projects I have undertaken, and we have others here as well that are just as firmly committed.

For the rest of the folks that are growing tired of reading all this spam, I'd highly recommend placing this user Haxy aka KilpiBan on Ignore until the mods deal with him, because it's only a matter of time.

I myself doesn't have anything to hide. I could just make my profile open for everyone, but I don't want as I said earlier on this thread.

Users, who has VAC ban, might have something personal on their profile, what they want only share with friends on his/her friend list. It's wrong to all sudden make profile open for everyone and take ability to change profile information. What if something really important leaks to everyone, because of this? It's not good.

Users, who has VAC ban, are still "citizens" like you. Having VAC ban doesn't change anything, only prevents playing on VAC-protected servers.
And as I said on my first post on this thread, having active admins keeps cheaters and other griefers away from server.

It's also funny to think "my posts are spam, because I'm defending them who is affected by this suggestion", while "posts, what are for this suggestion, isn't spam". Also me and KilpiBan has same ISP (Elisa Oyj), but IP-address and MAC-address are different (Why I would make another account, when I have this one to post with?).

But let's try remember "Play the ball, not the player" rule and stay on topic.

MackP
11-02-2009, 12:42 AM
Cheaters are lame, but still they have rights on their privacy.
Well, they do have the right and privilege to play games with other players too. And that is a privilege, don't be confused about it.
When you buy a MP game, you pay for the privilege to play with other people.
And with privileges, come responsibilities and obligations.
Like obligations NOT to cheat, and NOT to ruin game experience for other players.
I and everyone else has rights to: rights to play our games we paid for without cheaters, without someone ruining our enjoyment of these games.
So you're basically saying that cheaters have rights, but they don't have obligations to obey rules of online conduct, right?
You're saying that they can break rules, and keep on breaking them just because they have rights to privacy regarding how many and which games they own?
You're saying that their rights come before our rights as honest players?
They GAVE UP those rights the moment they broke the rules of conduct, the moment they violated SSA, the moment they thought they could have rights without responsibilities.
We, honest players, have rights too. And since we don't cheat and don't break the rules, we should come first.
And cheaters SHOULD come second, or as you call them second class citizens.
Everywhere else in the world, when people do something wrong to other people that breaks the rules of that society, they receive a punishment, and they are publicly known for who they are, so the people would know.
Even in USA, when you do a minor offense, it all goes into your record, along with all your personal informations, so others would know what you did. What about them?
Do they have the right to (in every country), for example, drive everywhere 100 mph, get a speeding ticket, and stay private (without giving their ID and license to the officer), just so they could go on speeding in other country or where ever until they crash their car or kill someone? NO!
The same thing is here. If they stay private, they will continue to break the rules, and that is not acceptable.

We don't care about VAC banned players who aren't cheaters and who got their account banned because of a hacker, we want to stop persistent cheaters. Do you usually browse people's profiles just for fun? I don't, because I don't care. But when someone cheats, I do care, because I want to see him stopped.
Why do you think they changed VAC1 (1-5 years ban) to VAC2 (permanent)? I think you know.
In USA, for example, when a thief walks down the street going about his business, no one cares about him. But when he tries to work in a wall-mart, then they do care about him, they are interested in his past and whether or not he has a criminal record.

Why do you keep going against common sense and reason?
You MUST be a cheater, otherwise you wouldn't have posted all these nonsenses.
Everywhere else, this is normal practice. And for all honest people care, it should be on Steam too.

Ayla
11-02-2009, 01:42 AM
Why do you think they changed VAC1 (1-5 years ban) to VAC2 (permanent)? I think you know.
No, he doesn't ... He doesn't know even why the VAC status is, since last year, public information ... He doesn't know why so many VAC Status checkers around ... BUT he came up with something very special ... :
All users, who got VAC banned, aren't cheaters. And yes, I basically "protect" them, because this suggestion is bad and wrong for them.

Haxy
11-02-2009, 03:54 AM
Well, they do have the right and privilege to play games with other players too. And that is a privilege, don't be confused about it.
When you buy a MP game, you pay for the privilege to play with other people.
And with privileges, come responsibilities and obligations.
Like obligations NOT to cheat, and NOT to ruin game experience for other players.
I and everyone else has rights to: rights to play our games we paid for without cheaters, without someone ruining our enjoyment of these games.
So you're basically saying that cheaters have rights, but they don't have obligations to obey rules of online conduct, right?
You're saying that they can break rules, and keep on breaking them just because they have rights to privacy regarding how many and which games they own?
You're saying that their rights come before our rights as honest players?
They GAVE UP those rights the moment they broke the rules of conduct, the moment they violated SSA, the moment they thought they could have rights without responsibilities.
We, honest players, have rights too. And since we don't cheat and don't break the rules, we should come first.
And cheaters SHOULD come second, or as you call them second class citizens.
Everywhere else in the world, when people do something wrong to other people that breaks the rules of that society, they receive a punishment, and they are publicly known for who they are, so the people would know.
Even in USA, when you do a minor offense, it all goes into your record, along with all your personal informations, so others would know what you did. What about them?
Do they have the right to (in every country), for example, drive everywhere 100 mph, get a speeding ticket, and stay private (without giving their ID and license to the officer), just so they could go on speeding in other country or where ever until they crash their car or kill someone? NO!
The same thing is here. If they stay private, they will continue to break the rules, and that is not acceptable.

We don't care about VAC banned players who aren't cheaters and who got their account banned because of a hacker, we want to stop persistent cheaters. Do you usually browse people's profiles just for fun? I don't, because I don't care. But when someone cheats, I do care, because I want to see him stopped.
Why do you think they changed VAC1 (1-5 years ban) to VAC2 (permanent)? I think you know.
In USA, for example, when a thief walks down the street going about his business, no one cares about him. But when he tries to work in a wall-mart, then they do care about him, they are interested in his past and whether or not he has a criminal record.

Why do you keep going against common sense and reason?
You MUST be a cheater, otherwise you wouldn't have posted all these nonsenses.
Everywhere else, this is normal practice. And for all honest people care, it should be on Steam too.

You should notice you are not breaking a law, if you use cheats in multiplayer games. You only break "Rules" given by game company.
You can't compare those to VAC-banned user.

You pay for license, what allows you to play a game. You still own that license, even you get VAC-banned. You still can play multiplayer, but you are restricted from VAC-protected servers.

No, he doesn't ... He doesn't know even why the VAC status is, since last year, public information ... He doesn't know why so many VAC Status checkers around ... BUT he came up with something very special ... :

I honestly don't understand why you think that is interesting? There is currently not VAC-banned users protecting theirselfs from this suggestion and I care about others privacy (Of course, people can share what they want, but forcing player reveal information is wrong).

We cpould also do it the other way around. Just start sending every suspect we have to be checked by Steam, of course it would be easier on them to let us take care of our own servers since that would pretty much clog the e-mail servers up. Either way though it can be done.

It's already in the SSA. Haxy doesn;t have a leg to stand on and he knows it. Right there in the SSA is what everybody agrees to, and there ain't no way out of that. Nowhere in there does it even remotely have anything that gives cheaters a right to privacy.

The SSA already covers this and can and will get rid of these repat offenders. Maybe locking down servers to password only for awhile will get people's attention until we DO get rid of them. That's another idea too.

What do you say now Haxy? Is it worth loosing to ability to logon to a server at all to cover for the cheats? Are the cheats worth that? One day there's gonna be a great big "P" (for Private) or a great big Red Circle with an X in it for password protected private servers until we get this mess straightened out. Is it worth it? Then Admins won't have to worry about cheaters, and everybody else will pay the price for it too. Won't that be fun? I can promise you this...if that happens it will become increasingly difficult to join into that innner circle...extremely difficult.

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand what you said. Can you explain better?

Sliferjam
11-02-2009, 04:07 AM
If you go and steal something or do something wrong/illegal in real life, you're marked as such. People who might need to know this information, such as prospective employers, can and will find out. Sex predators get their homes listed so you know not to let your kid go trick or treating there.

Same should happen with VAC banned accounts. Private or not, there should be a VAC banned symbol over their page so you know who you may be playing with or allowing on a server. And there is apparently. That's enough for me.
I don't need to know that someone's from Kansas, listens to Blink 182 and has a cow fetish. I just need to know that they cheated. And I do.

But if they go and buy a new account it should not transfer.
New account=new slate.

Perhaps there should just be something that logs your ip or something if you have a vac banned account and just watches you when you play online more closely. And perhaps a 3 strikes you're out rule.
But it would get rid of quite a few people who just buy the game over and over and over after they are vac'd, so it would be a loss of income.

If you still have problems with this one guy, get all servers you play on to ip ban him. Present your proof to the owner and ask politely.

Ayla
11-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Haxy, please edit your posts, extracting exactly the phrase you're referring to. It's not normal to fill all the page quoting for ever others posts ... Please! And, again: Please stop spamming this topic!

Sliferjam, sometimes I need that "Member Since" field, sometimes I need to know the cheater's friends, depending of the case. Sometimes he just lies everybody claiming that his account has been stolen and banned later, sometimes he just buy a new account but keeping the old one at Friends, keep trying to enter in the league and cheating...

As you all know, after VAC ban, they are changing their nicknames, putting the profile to private, so no information will remain available. Everything is traceable but keeping the profiles as private they make a little bit difficult all the hunting process. Making VAC banned profiles as public information (same as VAC status) will help owners/admins to track down these cheaters sometimes even before they are VAC banned. It's so simple!

We are talking about cheaters = VAC banned accounts! We are talking about players which continuously ruin the game (speaking mostly about CS:S … but I've just found that in GRID we encounter the same issues...).

As MackP stated: "Nothing more to prove. Steam can implement this feature immediately without any further discussion."

BTW, T_Flight, great comment. Thanks! ;)

Daniellynet
11-02-2009, 11:16 AM
Bans on record doesen't mean they're banned.. My friends never cheated and they still play while having the Bans on record.

Haxy
11-02-2009, 01:19 PM
Bans on record doesen't mean they're banned.. My friends never cheated and they still play while having the Bans on record.

Your friend's account might be banned from other engine's VAC server (VAC ban on goldsrc engine (Half-Life 1), but still can play on Source engine (Half-Life 2)).

Ayla
11-02-2009, 02:24 PM
Haxy, please stop quoting all the posts!

VALVE, please make "public" all VAC Banned accounts.

Gaesadair
11-02-2009, 02:29 PM
We are talking about cheaters = VAC banned accounts!

As Haxy has pointed out, false positives exist. People who have their account stolen or who unwittingly modify game files (by downloading malware that does this, or other reasons as explained in the Wikipedia link Haxy provided) may trigger VAC without being cheaters.

What you are suggesting will therefore affect many others than the few people you are trying to track. It will affect victims of account theft, for instance. Victims of account theft never broke the agreement they had with Valve.

Furthermore, there is nothing in the agreement about, "if you cheat (or we think you're cheating, even though you're not) we may make private information about you publicly available". I would certainly not agree to any such terms, for instance.

Ayla
11-02-2009, 03:38 PM
Haxy ... This is Haxy ... A cheaters protector. (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11798213&postcount=45)

Exist or not, you're mixing things ... I'm not tracking "false positives" but cheaters. Victims of account theft must be more carefully and they should be(!), since a cheater acts deliberately, ruining our game.
They ("false positives") have a chance reporting and recovering very fast their account to VALVE since we, ordinary players, we don't have any against cheaters!...

__________________________________________________ ___________
VALVE, please freeze and make "public" all VAC Banned profiles.

Ayla
11-02-2009, 04:00 PM
Final proof ...

Since we're "talking" here, quoting Haxy's absurd statements, the cheater is very happy and play the game as usual : CHEATING!

Atmosphere # fm-gaming[color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color][color="#FF66FF"]♥[/color]
STEAM_0:1:27135179
http://steamcommunity.com/id/aTm-aka-atmosphere
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014536087
Always remember to be happy
aTm - Atmosphere
Romania
happy face makes you score a headshot =]
my SGL account
my Clan Base account
my ESEA account
Member since: October 16, 2009
Steam Rating: 10
Playing time: 119.9 hrs past 2 weeks
VAC status: ban(s) on record | ?
Counter-Strike: Source : 113.7 hrs
Killing Floor : 2 hrs
View stats
Insurgency : 0.9 hrs
View all 6 games

No comment ... See my first post:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=997116
The account: " http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014536087 - actual " wasn't VAC banned at the time of posting ... and the show will go on. I will come back with his new fresh account ... soon.

__________________________________________________ ___________
VALVE, please freeze and make "public" all VAC Banned profiles.
Help us to track down the cheaters.

Gaesadair
11-02-2009, 05:24 PM
Exist or not, you're mixing things ... I'm not tracking "false positives" but cheaters. Victims of account theft must be more carefully and they should be(!), since a cheater acts deliberately, ruining our game.
They ("false positives") have a chance reporting and recovering very fast their account to VALVE since we, ordinary players, we don't have any against cheaters!...

Regardless of who you personally are tracking, your proposed change will affect everyone, also false positives.

Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts for Valve products.
The information that statement lets Valve propagate about your account is very limited. It does not include anything but "your history of use of Cheats", and I have nothing against that. It is making the entire profile public, when said profile might contain private information, that I object to.

Ayla
11-02-2009, 06:15 PM
It is making the entire profile public, when said profile might contain private information, that I object to.
Object to what, dear new forum user?! <-- another clone of Haxy?
My entire topic it's about the "public" information you can see here:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014536087
and sometimes you can not because the cheater put his profile on "private".

Please read before posting nonsense!

Gaesadair
11-02-2009, 06:47 PM
Object to what, dear new forum user?! <-- another clone of Haxy?
If you really believe I'm a Haxy sockpuppet you're much worse at this tracking thing than I assumed you were, and I strongly doubt that any bowdlerisation software will make Haxy's language sound like mine.

My entire topic it's about the "public" information you can see here:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014536087
and sometimes you can not because the cheater put his profile on "private".

Not being able to see the information also happens if a legitimate user puts their profile on private. If that legitimate user has their account stolen or otherwise compromised in a manner that will lead the VAC system to ban them, and your proposal goes through, the information they put in their profile will become public in exactly the same way that a cheater's information will become public.

That's what I object to. Your proposal, if it goes through, will harm legitimate users that put information they wish to keep private into their profile, if their account is compromised in a way which leads the VAC system to ban them. That people who cheat will also have their information made public is a lesser (though still valid, until and unless Valve makes this change public in the agreement that all Steam users agree to) concern.

Ayla
11-03-2009, 12:14 AM
That's what I object to. Your proposal, if it goes through, will harm legitimate users that put information they wish to keep private into their profile, if their account is compromised in a way which leads the VAC system to ban them. That people who cheat will also have their information made public is a lesser (though still valid, until and unless Valve makes this change public in the agreement that all Steam users agree to) concern.

LOL, dear! Who track the legitimate user’s accounts stolen except the original user and VALVE???
I'm taking here about "legitimate" cheaters, VAC banned(!) accounts which have a bigger importance for me than your legitimate "users", incapable to protect their accounts from stealing! Why mixing all these things?

__________________________________________________ ___________
VALVE, please freeze and make "public" all VAC Banned profiles.
Help us to track down the cheaters.

IcarusNine
11-03-2009, 12:16 AM
Maybe it changed recently, but VAC banned status shows up whether an account is private or not.

Ayla
11-03-2009, 12:21 AM
Maybe it changed recently, but VAC banned status shows up whether an account is private or not.
It's about the VAC Banned accounts profiles, not VAC Status.
My entire topic it's about the "public" information you can see here:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014536087
and sometimes you can not because the cheater put his profile on "private", like this one:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013200386

Got it now? Please read the topic before posting!

__________________________________________________ ___________
VALVE, please freeze and make "public" all VAC Banned profiles.
Help us to track down the cheaters.

Haxy
11-03-2009, 12:22 AM
LOL, dear! Who track the legitimate user’s accounts stolen except the original user and VALVE???
I'm taking here about "legitimate" cheaters, VAC banned(!) accounts which have a bigger importance for me than your legitimate "users", incapable to protect their accounts from stealing! Why mixing all these things?

__________________________________________________ ___________
VALVE, please freeze and make "public" all VAC Banned profiles.
Help us to track down the cheaters.

How about getting cheaters off your head and thinking all posts posted on this thread.
Your suggestion is harming users, who's account has been hijacked and got VAC-banned because of hijacker.

If you seriously need to find out more about person, add that "No private Steam community profiles" rule on your league. It's simple and friendly to all SC users.
And iff you are seriously good to track someone, that wouldn't be a problem.

IcarusNine
11-03-2009, 12:26 AM
It's about the VAC Banned accounts profiles, not VAC Status.
My entire topic it's about the "public" information you can see here:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014536087
and sometimes you can not because the cheater put his profile on "private", like this one:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013200386

Got it now? Please read the topic before posting!

__________________________________________________ ___________
VALVE, please freeze and make "public" all VAC Banned profiles.
Help us to track down the cheaters.

Of what value is the community page when it comes to finding cheaters?
Unless they're dumb enough to put "I'm a cheater" or "here's a link to my latest hack" on their community page.

Ayla
11-03-2009, 12:39 AM
If you seriously need to find out more about person, add that "No private Steam community profiles" rule on your league.
Seems that your don't understand... Even now... You keep quoting and spamming this topic but you are out of the problem ...
Could you please try to understand that it's about the profiles which are going to be changed by the cheater as "pivate" AFTER VAC Banned?! God!...

And iff you are seriously good to track someone, that wouldn't be a problem.
For me, it isn't! For others yes, it is a real problem tracking the cheaters, trying to protect their servers, leagues, communities... So, are you going to help us or you keep saying that you protect cheaters (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11798213&postcount=45)?...

Of what value is the community page when it comes to finding cheaters?
More than valuable! Please read the entire topic before posting! Thanks!

__________________________________________________ ___________
VALVE, please freeze and make "public" all VAC Banned profiles.
Help us to track down the cheaters.

sciss0rz
11-03-2009, 12:48 AM
Two accounts owned by the same cheater:

Account #1 - Name: Bob, Country: United Kingdom
Account #2 - Name: Mike, Country: United States

Good luck tracking them.

Ayla
11-03-2009, 12:51 AM
Just give me to IDs (of the same cheater) and you'll be more than surprised...

sciss0rz
11-03-2009, 12:51 AM
Just give me to IDs (of the same cheater) and you'll be surprised...

So you're saying that you don't actually need the profiles to be public to track them?

Ayla
11-03-2009, 12:58 AM
Only VAC Banned profiles!
If you're still not convinced, add me on SC or register to my forum...

IcarusNine
11-03-2009, 01:10 AM
More than valuable! Please read the entire topic before posting! Thanks!
It's a bit much to read everything considering you mostly end up arguing with Haxy and a few others over privacy.

What essential features of the community pages do you need to see? The comments? The player's groups? Their friends list? Gameplay stats? Profile? The icon, name, and VAC status are of course already available.

Ayla
11-03-2009, 01:16 AM
It's a bit much to read everything considering you mostly end up arguing with Haxy and a few others over privacy.
Sorry, not my fault ... Please read:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11730438&postcount=18
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11772808&postcount=28
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11825205&postcount=71

IcarusNine
11-03-2009, 03:11 AM
So all you want are the friends list and the 'Member Since' gameplay stat?

The 'Member Since' gameplay stat could always be made public, just like the VAC status... It's just archival, so unless someone is shy about their join date on Steam there's no reason to keep it private.

The reason for using the friends list I didn't see, but maybe I could imagine a reason or two.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how safe it is to lock the friends list on a community page; unless friends and community features are also disabled for that steam account, the friends list would either have to update when a friend is added or removed or it would have to be stored seperately from the account's actual friends list and become out of date if someone continued to use the account. The former defeats the purpose of making it public, and the latter seems prone to mess-ups.

Gaesadair
11-03-2009, 05:01 AM
I'm taking here about "legitimate" cheaters, VAC banned(!) accounts which have a bigger importance for me than your legitimate "users", incapable to protect their accounts from stealing! Why mixing all these things?

Because you are mixing them in with your proposed change. This topic is about making some private profiles public, because that's what your proposed change will accomplish. It's not only about tracking cheaters, because as previously shown legitimate users will also be affected by your proposed change.

That you don't care about legitimate users is irrelevant; it doesn't make the change not affect legitimate users. I understand that you are only interested in tracking cheaters. I don't mind the tracking of cheaters. But your proposed change will harm legitimate users regardless of who you personally are interested in tracking.

If you don't care about legitimate users, you have no reason to care about my posts. I am not posting here for your benefit (as you've made it clear you don't care about legitimate users) but for the benefit of whoever from Valve reads this topic.

Gaesadair
11-03-2009, 12:05 PM
This does not affect legitimate users in any way. We wouldn't be looking for them. What? Do you think an Admin is just gonna go searching randomly through MILLIONS of users at random? Hell NO! Their gonna search the profile of the CHEATER they are having to deal with. This is WHY it only will only affect cheaters.

So only admins are going to search through users? That's a naive assumption to make. If information that a legitimate user made private is made public, anyone can find said information, not only admins who are looking for cheaters.

Also, I don't think "read it again" is a useful response. Obviously we differ as to what the text of the agreement says. Just saying "read it again" is not a useful response because I am sure of my interpretation and you are sure of your interpretation. The agreement does, to my eye, only make one kind of information releasable: "your use of Cheats"; no other information is stated as propagatable by Valve in that agreement. If you disagree you're going to have to show me how you interpret the text, not just spout "read it again".

Gaesadair
11-03-2009, 02:18 PM
So your saying that somebody is gonna wake up one day and just start searching through Millions of user's profiles at random?
If someone knows that there may be sensitive information put in some profiles that will be made public, I bet it will be done. Not by random people, but by people who wish to use said information. I can even see an added incentive for people to compromise others' accounts, if they can get access to potentially private information. No, most profiles won't have sensitive information in them, but then most profiles aren't private - those legitimate users who set their profile to private most likely have a reason to do so.

Why would they do that? That's not what we're talking about here. It's completely off topic. What we're talking about here is Admin's and Admin's only. Anybody else is irrelevant to the topic.

Wrong. Random people have no use for private profile information, but phishers, scammers, botnet herders, stalkers, etc. do. And, of course, admins who are looking for cheaters. My point is that if you open profiles to admins, you also open them to phishers, scammers, botnet herders, stalkers, and so on.

This topic is about a suggestion. Anything that pertains to said suggestion is on topic.

Ayla
11-03-2009, 02:49 PM
My point is that if you open profiles to admins, you also open them to phishers, scammers, botnet herders, stalkers, and so on.
Ah! My brain hurts! Read what you've written boy ... My profile is public! Should I change it because of this? hahaha :D
I think you're watching movies too much.

In real life, I can track you down, checking your IP, ISP, searching for your profiles and personal data on hi5, Facebook, Tweeter, etc. then I will hire someone to kill you and you're down in a minute. Right?

Well, this is only a GAME, dear!... Enough with fake supposition! It's only a game where some idiots are trying to ruin all, since we are continuously trying to trace and shot them down, protecting our servers and leagues and not the cheaters as I've seen some of you are doing here.

Yes, it's only an attested suggestion, but seems that no one from VALVE or a mod is reading this. :(

I've gave you enough examples ... With or without your help I will try to build and sign a petition to VALVE to remove that "private" option for all VAC Banned accounts.

Wish me luck!

OK, who wants to start to write one?
T_Flight? Seems that you are the proper person to compose it. ;)

PS: Thanks so much for your valuable help! :-*

Gaesadair
11-03-2009, 03:11 PM
Ah! My brain hurts! Read what you've written boy ... My profile is public! Should I change it because of this? hahaha :D
I think you're watching movies too much.

Since your profile is public I doubt you're going to put any information in it that you don't wish strangers to know about, so no I don't think you should change it because of this. However, people who set their profile to private (and aren't cheaters, but may have their account compromised in a way which causes VAC to ban them) may have put private information in there that they don't wish strangers to know about.

And no, I'm not talking about people coming to your house (though if it's a stalker, that may well happen if you put your address in your private profile and it is then made public). Identity theft, scamming (these users have already shown their security to be weak, after all, by getting their Steam account compromised), botnet infection (same reason), phishing (again, same reason). All these are things that are being done right now, over the internet. If false-positive VAC bans get their private profiles made public, I can see perpetrators of these crimes adding a Steam profile sweep for contact information to their search bots.

Why do you assume I am a boy?

MackP
11-03-2009, 06:26 PM
Since your profile is public I doubt you're going to put any information in it that you don't wish strangers to know about, so no I don't think you should change it because of this. However, people who set their profile to private (and aren't cheaters, but may have their account compromised in a way which causes VAC to ban them) may have put private information in there that they don't wish strangers to know about.

And no, I'm not talking about people coming to your house (though if it's a stalker, that may well happen if you put your address in your private profile and it is then made public). Identity theft, scamming (these users have already shown their security to be weak, after all, by getting their Steam account compromised), botnet infection (same reason), phishing (again, same reason). All these are things that are being done right now, over the internet. If false-positive VAC bans get their private profiles made public, I can see perpetrators of these crimes adding a Steam profile sweep for contact information to their search bots.
First of all, don't spam that crap about false positives and malware causing VAC bans, because that does not exist.
Every game mod that causes VAC ban is known (2 or 3 of them for entire time that VAC2 exist), and various viruses and similar malware simply don't cause VAC bans because they don't modify core game files in a way that matches a cheat signature that VAC recognizes.
VAC only bans for known cheats.
Every VAC ban is caused by cheating, either on purpose or by getting your account hacked and cheated on. Period.

Now with that said, do you seriously believe that someone who got his account compromised and is not a cheater, will not change any sensitive information on his profile page long before a possible VAC ban?
Any reasonable person would, tech savvy or not.

Gaesadair
11-03-2009, 06:48 PM
Every VAC ban is caused by cheating, either on purpose or by getting your account hacked and cheated on. Period.


Saying this is true doesn't make it so. In the absence of good statistics, the worst-case scenario is the safest assumption to make. I haven't seen good statistics on this, so I am making the assumption of a worst-case scenario with what limited information is available in the wikipedia link posted earlier in this thread.


do you seriously believe that someone who got his account compromised and is not a cheater, will not change any sensitive information on his profile page long before a possible VAC ban?

A compromised account may or may not be currently in use; a compromised account may or may not be obvious until the VAC ban happens. And if someone actually steals your account, how are you going to log in to change your profile?

Ayla
11-04-2009, 01:19 AM
In the absence of good statistics
Sorry, but YOU are very limited ... Could you please stop here? There are a lot of statistics out there. Of course, nobody will tell you how many accounts are VAC Banned or … “hacked” lol!

For your information, strictly referring to the VAC Banned accounts, according to AnAkIn’s statistic:
8.06% of Steam accounts checked are VAC banned
314677 SteamID banned of 3903742 checked
Just imagine that I’ve personally injected there more than 300! As a personal record, I’ve tracked in time ~100 of them, accounts that are already VAC banned(!), while I’m tracking 18 of them, which represent cheaters that are still trying to come back, cheating! Small numbers but enough to keep my servers cleaned!

..if someone actually steals your account, how are you going to log in to change your profile?
WOW! If YOU can change it, means that your account isn't stolen, right?! And I repeat: We are talking here about VAC Banned accounts, not stolen or puppies or merry-go-rounds ...

... a compromised account may or may not be obvious until the VAC ban happens
You're totally lost ...

If you're continue supposing, trying to find answers to your stupid questions please be informed that this isn't the right place. You have a lot of information and complete instructions in KB for ALL these kinds of “horrible” situations you might encounter by yourself just because you don't care about your own account … Try https://support.steampowered.com instead!

Of course, I realize that my suggestion is based on experience you don't have, but read and learn, at least!

Also, remember that it’s easy to track a suspect but it’s harder to prove he’s a cheater. During a match or competition you can’t wait VAC ban. Having accurate information you cannot miss the target but remember that the decision is harder because it should be faultless…

As I said, I'm not tracking “anyone”. I have my "specials" I hunt since 3 years ago: multi-accounts cheaters that ruin the game. SC profiles help me a lot but I have also my own methods to track down a cheater before he's VAC Banned.

I’m sure you haven’t red all the topic, else you would find an account VAC banned while we are speaking here …

Haxy
11-04-2009, 01:42 AM
Sorry, but YOU are very limited ... Could you please stop here? There are a lot of statistics out there. Of course, nobody will tell you how many accounts are VAC Banned or … “hacked” lol!

For your information, strictly referring to the VAC Banned accounts, according to AnAkIn’s statistic:

Just imagine that I’ve personally injected there more than 300! As a personal record, I’ve tracked in time ~100 of them, accounts that are already VAC banned(!), while I’m tracking 18 of them, which represent cheaters that are still trying to come back, cheating! Small numbers but enough to keep my servers cleaned!


WOW! If YOU can change it, means that your account isn't stolen, right?! And I repeat: We are talking here about VAC Banned accounts, not stolen or puppies or merry-go-rounds ...


You're totally lost ...

If you're continue supposing, trying to find answers to your stupid questions please be informed that this isn't the right place. You have a lot of information and complete instructions in KB for ALL these kinds of “horrible” situations you might encounter by yourself just because you don't care about your own account … Try https://support.steampowered.com instead!

Of course, I realize that my suggestion is based on experience you don't have, but read and learn, at least!

Also, remember that it’s easy to track a suspect but it’s harder to prove he’s a cheater. During a match or competition you can’t wait VAC ban. Having accurate information you cannot miss the target but remember that the decision is harder because it should be faultless…

As I said, I'm not tracking “anyone”. I have my "specials" I hunt since 3 years ago: multi-accounts cheaters that ruin the game. SC profiles help me a lot but I have also my own methods to track down a cheater before he's VAC Banned.

I’m sure you haven’t red all the topic, else you would find an account VAC banned while we are speaking here …

Statics on vacbanned.com isn't "valid" as it doesn't include all Steam accounts and users mostly adds only VAC-banned accounts there.

We are basically talking about stolen accounts here as hijacker can get VAC ban on stolen account.

Ayla
11-04-2009, 01:48 AM
Statics on vacbanned.com isn't "valid" as it doesn't include all Steam accounts and users mostly adds only VAC-banned accounts there.
You'll never get that.

We are basically talking about stolen accounts here as hijacker can get VAC ban on stolen account.
Not in this topic. You have KB for this.

Lazy dude ... Learn to extract the main idea, not quoting everybody...

Gaesadair
11-04-2009, 05:24 AM
Sorry, but YOU are very limited ... Could you please stop here? There are a lot of statistics out there. Of course, nobody will tell you how many accounts are VAC Banned or … “hacked” lol!

Which means there aren't good statistics available (that you or I know about, if this is the best you can come up with), so I must assume the worst-case. I am sick and tired of your condescending attitude in this thread, and I think I have made my point sufficiently for anyone from Valve so I'll stop here as you ask.

MackP
11-04-2009, 06:14 AM
Saying this is true doesn't make it so. In the absence of good statistics, the worst-case scenario is the safest assumption to make. I haven't seen good statistics on this, so I am making the assumption of a worst-case scenario with what limited information is available in the wikipedia link posted earlier in this thread.
Cheating isn't assumption, your imaginary viruses that cause VAC bans are. Try to find a single case on these forums where someone reported a virus caused VAC ban (giving that he can provide the infected file). When you find one, let me know.
Until then, lay off the assumptions in this thread.
A compromised account may or may not be currently in use; a compromised account may or may not be obvious until the VAC ban happens. And if someone actually steals your account, how are you going to log in to change your profile?
Again tons of assumptions and "may or may not"s. Please try to stick to facts.
Facts are:
1) VAC bans for known cheats, not viruses.
2) Banned accounts were being used, otherwise there's no way they could have been compromised. When I wasn't using my account for 6 months, it hasn't been magically hacked. People that are saying that, are either cheaters or liars. I've seen enough of those on these forums.

You are the one here only making assumptions.
Do you have anything that can corroborate your statements? Any examples? Or you're just having fun from your chair late at night?

Jarate Lover
11-08-2009, 12:40 AM
WOW, I think someone needs to get out of the house. It's sad when you spend all your time trying to track cheaters, and obsessing with them. Oh well tho, your time, enjoy.

Here is an idea. If there is a cheater on a server ban him. If he comes back after spending more money on an account, ban him. That would keep your server clean. Active admins on servers is all any server needs.

Anyways, you're wasting your time. Valve won't do what you want, but please continue to waste your time if you desire. Me personally, I wouldn't care if they implemented this idea or not. I just don't see Valve, giving up the privacy of someone just because they cheated.(The argument that it's not really that much of private information doesn't matter. If a non cheater has a right to privacy, so should the cheater)

iGaming | Chaos
11-08-2009, 08:08 AM
One of the more pointless threads I've read.

And coming from a completely unbiased position (everyone has a right to privacy, but I'm not fussed about this either way tbh), Ayla has got to be one of the more annoying people i've seen on these forums (apart from myself of course). Your condescending attitude directed at anyone who doesn't agree with you is hardly going to get people to believe in your pointless cause. I call it pointless because this is something that will never happen. I'd bet my dog on that (and I love my dog).

Ayla
11-08-2009, 01:09 PM
Hmmm OKI ... Of course, you'll act the same when a drunk driver will crush your beloved dog ... smiling.

A VAC Banned cheater should never get the right to "privacy"...

iGaming | Chaos
11-08-2009, 08:04 PM
Don't you think if it was as clear cut as you make it out to be, what you want to be implemented would of been by now?

I can't show you that cause. But I bet you don't know what a sanity clause is. To your question - i'm quite happy with the situation as it is now. I choose a server, I play on it.

Ayla - I don't know (or care) what backwater country you live in, but in civilised countries everyone has a right to privacy, doesn't matter what they've done.

iGaming | Chaos
11-08-2009, 08:22 PM
/thread kgo.

Ayla
11-09-2009, 12:32 AM
/thread kgo.
?

Cheater => VAC status:ban(s) on record => Public profile

Simple than spamming ...

Keep coming back to Haxy & Friends (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11798213&postcount=45) ...
All users, who got VAC banned, aren't cheaters. And yes, I basically "protect" them, because this suggestion is bad and wrong for them.

Awesome!... Seems that I'm in the wrong forum (?) ... :(

iGaming | Chaos
11-09-2009, 12:43 AM
Yes you are.

Create your own forum and lock it so that nobody can disagree with you.

I think you'll be happier.

Ayla
11-09-2009, 01:06 AM
Create your own forum and lock it so that nobody can disagree with you.
Already have one = full of cheaters = ~90% VAC Banned. ;)

Stop spamming! Kindly please read the topic before posting...

iGaming | Chaos
11-09-2009, 01:11 AM
I've read the topic thankyou. This entire thread consists of you saying something, someone disagreeing with you, you ignoring them and calling them cheaters or spammers.

Concise enough?

iGaming | Chaos
11-09-2009, 01:43 AM
I understood all of it.

I didn't really see any deviation from the formula above.

Arkane
11-09-2009, 07:20 AM
Fact is when men are addressed as pedophiles they lose their privacy (oh and for the record i'm not a pedophile!!!! I'm using their privacy as an example here thats ALL!!!!!!!!) because they are sex offenders however that is completely different from a player downloading hack's onto a computer and cheating/hacking and getting vac banned some players do change like me. I used to use colored models and actually quit in the nick of time because when I quit shortly after that my server I helped my brother run cought some player with colored models I got really lucky yes but I also learned from it, now guess what I am 100 percent legitimate (i would swear on the holy bible to if needed TWICE lol i'm a christian btw so it i were to lie it would be over for me).

Anyway, to get back to the point I learned and my attitude and mentality changed, and there are other's out there like me as well this guy apparently isn't one but my point there is this is not as serious as a sex offender not nearly by far but they both have to do with privacy sex offender yes put it ♥♥♥♥ public please (it already is) but sorry I disagree no matter how much I don't want to i do, and I hope valve considers it but does nothing, sorry..

Amish Warhead
11-10-2009, 03:08 AM
I was a gaming server admin (and forum moderator) for years 2001-2008. Few people can claim to be both, let alone keeping with it for seven years for sometimes more hours a week than I work. For the few understandably curious, six servers concurrently, and I loved nearly every minute of it.

Providing quality of gameplay was my overarching concern, as that directly impacted the server's (as well as my personal) reputation. With that in mind, I find Ayla to be both articulate and patient(!), and determined. Qualities of a perfect admin.

Ayla has presented a good case, never mind the 'omg privacy' objections. To a serious player, what is the more tolerable 'evil'? Ruined game play for many hundreds of people? Compared to.....what is it? Real or imagined security concerns aside, she simply wants an even playing field -- that which may be the most important part of many players' experience. Good luck to you, Ayla. I, too, have been the hunter hundreds of times, and with waay too few alternatives at my disposal.

Hm.. a thought. And perhaps it was mentioned? One facet of denying public access to a games list, pre/post/whatever VAC, hides what can/may be, in certain instances, a list of games that the account user has been using additional unwanted code in, as well. Who's to say that an illegitimate player is focused upon just one specific arena? This means, of course, that leaving/making the profile public (as well as frozen or whatever, for whatever duration) could be um.. useful? Just saying, as I've no personal stake here. And, please forgive varying degrees of comprehension in this post as it's...4am here.

Arkane
11-10-2009, 07:51 AM
I was not undermining ayla's word's in any way and if it looked like I was I apologize. All I said was if valve were to do this that's like also saying big brother (government) has a right to do all the tapping and privacy puncturing there doing to eliminate terrorists (terrorists get punished but so do we). If valve did this amish is right it would help fight repeat hackers but would also impact the innocent player's as well, so if there is a way to do this without impacting player's that don't deserve it then please valve do it if not i sincerely hope they consider it but also waive it..

Zefar
11-10-2009, 09:46 AM
I think you guys got you wish through.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/lubiemaslo

It's on private but you can still see if he's banned. All though, not in which games.

Unless you want cheaters profile to turn to public instead. But I don't care about that.

Wroleader
11-10-2009, 08:54 PM
--The Main Flaw--

First of all, making some of the information in a profile is indeed an invasion to privacy. If people don't want to reveal their information, just let them be. Otherwise, that's actually denying (I can't stress this enough) their RIGHT to privacy.

--Liberty of Choice--

Even when it's useless information, like the examples Ayla has gave before, it's still information. Even if it's something as simple as "I like cookies", the person can, and has the right to hide that information.

--Cheaters--

Yes, cheaters are bad. They ruin servers, and even more. But, this is why there's this automated system called Valve Anti-Cheat (Or VAC, for short), which automatically detects cheats and bans the user from playing on VAC-Banned servers, depending on the engine his/her game is running.

I despise cheaters too, that's why my HL2DM Server has VAC turned off and after mapchange, it automatically turns on and then it loops.

However, just because a public League is getting overwhelmed by cheaters, it doesn't mean the cheaters have to give their information.

--Changes all out of a sudden--

VALVe cannot make changes like that all out of a sudden. Every Steam user must agree, and even if there's one out of the entire Steam Network, then the changes cannot be made, because it would be unfair for that one person. So, even if it was a good idea, if somebody doesn't like it, it just can't be made. Makes sense, doesn't it?



Just so you know, i'm not a cheater, and i've never used cheats. I've had only two accounts in Steam, which are:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197999008474/home <--- current one

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197999008474/home <--- Old one (Was last used by my sister, also no, my name is not Alfred Bester).



Thank you for reading, and always make sure everyone gets a fair treatment.

~WroLeader

Chibito
11-10-2009, 10:04 PM
Forcing VAC-banned people to make their profile public would be harm to all the people who learned from that and would like to keep on playing their unbanned games. And to all who got their account stolen.

A cheater who's forced to make his profile publuc and want to keep on cheating would just create a new profile which is different

And finally, you're totally forgetting that there are people outside of leagues out there and that it's just not fair to force them into something only because of your league needs.

"Forcing" - "forced" - "force"!

Hey, ReBoot! What's all these about? How said to use "force"? I said "freeze/freezing" - different word/thing.

:confused: What? No, to be honest more appropriate for this is WTF? I've read quite a bit on this thread but this especially confuses me. Were you even reading his posts? Or is it my mistake and ReBoot meant to say that you're freezing VAC-banned users into having public profiles?

At first the thread started out ok, but it seemed to degenerate pretty quickly into a semi-flamewar, and iGaming | Chaos' summary is pretty accurate. Also T-Flight, since I'd at least like to obey the forum rules all I can say is that I don't like you.

Purely from Valve's Privacy Policy I would not agree with this, since the first sentence of it makes this against it. I still do not see how even displaying ALL possible information from VAC-banned users (Insane but let's just assume that) would be that helpful to trace cheaters. They do not have to type any information correctly. I don't see how their stats, date joined or games they own prove anything either.

Ayla
11-17-2009, 12:56 PM
Just so you know, i'm not a cheater, and i've never used cheats.
Well, Wroleader, alias Reeve, alias Fox, a simple search after STEAM_0:0:19371373 and STEAM_0:0:19005494 combined with your IPs could easily demonstrate that you prefer DM cracked servers instead of STEAM Only secured servers, that you're using cheats and proxy servers to hide your identity which is not so private as you think ...
Steamid: STEAM_666:88:666 Used: 70
Steamid: STEAM_0:0:19371373 Used: 2
So, claming that you're not a cheater playing on such servers looks like a ugly wolf claiming that he would never eat a sheep…
Do you want more? Use PM, dear … Do not disgrace yourself posting here … }{



... I don't like you.
“Play the ball” dear ... and please read again that post. Those 3 words are there. I've mentioned them in my other post because I already stated that this is only a suggestion.

You don't like me? Well, I'm sure I'm not an agreeable young damsel since my skill (or female instinct) in smelling a cheater rate is around 95%. Normally, all these are confirmed (later) after the cheater's account is VAC banned. I personally agree with VAC system but this suggestion (as well as VAC status) will help a lot to protect our servers even if don’t want to believe this.



I don't want to force anyone to learn how to track a cheater, especially multi-account cheaters which are ruining the game, competitions, leagues or whatever... So, I think, it's your own business how you protect your servers from these individuals?...

I've personally learned more from this thread. Trust me, I appreciate all your comments but I quit searching a solution/suggestion in order to not affect this precious "privacy" of a cheater, you're trying to "protect". Some of you know very well of what I’m talking about and I appreciate their efforts to convince you that "privacy" for a VAC Banned cheater is nonsense. I’ve posted enough proofs here, I think…

I've found this interesting also:
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4312-UOJL-0835

Thanks again for your support.

Wroleader
11-17-2009, 01:19 PM
Well, Wroleader, alias Reeve, alias Fox, a simple search after STEAM_0:0:19371373 and STEAM_0:0:19005494 combined with your IPs could easily demonstrate that you prefer DM cracked servers instead of STEAM Only secured servers, that you're using cheats and proxy servers to hide your identity which is not so private as you think ...

So, claming that you're not a cheater playing on such servers looks like a ugly wolf claiming that he would never eat a sheep…
Do you want more? Use PM, dear … Do not disgrace yourself posting here … }{
Thanks again for your support.

Those are all of my nicknames you could determine? I've used way over 45.

The fact that i always join a VAC Secured Server, called "The Chapel", is enough proof that i don't use cheats, and that i would be banned already.

I don't use proxy servers at the exception of one, but that's because my ISP routes me through it when i exceed the 1.2 Gb bandwidth limit, which is very low. Other thing, is that i live in Chile, and connecting through a 128Kbps proxy is not something that i would do to play, especially because i join servers that reside in the USA or Europe, and that would be very laggy, and would not let me play.

Not to mention, did you know there's this thing called Dynamic IPs? I've just recently changed it to Static.

There's also the fact that i almost lack patience for everything and would mostly end Steam task before it finishes connecting.

The other thing is that i only play HL2DM anyways, i have HL1 on my Games list, but i don't play it, let alone HL1 Online, and as stated before, i would have been banned already if i was playing on Cracked servers.

Not to mention, you didn't reply to the flaws i pointed out in my post. You're welcome to object to them.

Also, this doesnt even concern me, as i'm not the one you're looking for.




I've also logged on through Public computers (That cibercafe was not registered on the Steam cafe thing....... It's not like any cibercafe in my country at the exception of maybe one or two in Santiago are registered to the Cibercafe program >.>)

You know, i would agree with this suggestion, if it wasn't because of the flaws i posted...



Also, have a cookie!

[insert oreo here]

Arkane
11-17-2009, 01:41 PM
“Play the ball” dear ... and please read again that post. Those 3 words are there. I've mentioned them in my other post because I already stated that this is only a suggestion.

You don't like me? Well, I'm sure I'm not an agreeable young damsel since my skill (or female instinct) in smelling a cheater rate is around 95%. Normally, all these are confirmed (later) after the cheater's account is VAC banned. I personally agree with VAC system but this suggestion (as well as VAC status) will help a lot to protect our servers even if don’t want to believe this.



I don't want to force anyone to learn how to track a cheater, especially multi-account cheaters which are ruining the game, competitions, leagues or whatever... So, I think, it's your own business how you protect your servers from these individuals?...

I've personally learned more from this thread. Trust me, I appreciate all your comments but I quit searching a solution/suggestion in order to not affect this precious "privacy" of a cheater, you're trying to "protect". Some of you know very well of what I’m talking about and I appreciate their efforts to convince you that "privacy" for a VAC Banned cheater is nonsense. I’ve posted enough proofs here, I think…

I've found this interesting also:
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4312-UOJL-0835

Thanks again for your support.

Read again he wasn't talking to you he was talking to t-flight and telling t-flight he doesn't like em.

Also T-Flight, since I'd at least like to obey the forum rules all I can say is that I don't like you.

Ayla
11-17-2009, 01:52 PM
I don't use proxy servers at the exception of one, but that's because my ISP routes me through it when i exceed the 1.2 Gb bandwidth limit, which is very low. Other thing, is that i live in Chile, and connecting through a 128Kbps proxy is not something that i would do to play, especially because i join servers that reside in the USA or Europe, and that would be very laggy, and would not let me play.
Uh-Yeah ... Got it! Playing from Chile on cracked servers is like playing from Georgia on the same cracked servers ... Wow! Try on, dear ...

Wroleader
11-17-2009, 03:38 PM
Uh-Yeah ... Got it! Playing from Chile on cracked servers is like playing from Georgia on the same cracked servers ... Wow! Try on, dear ...

You're still ignoring my points.


Also, how is this server cracked in any possible way?

http://www.game-monitor.com/hl2mp2_GameServer/69.207.60.215:27017/The_Chapel_w_Yay_-_Part_of_the_Monastery_Network.html

Zefar
11-17-2009, 04:01 PM
I think you guys got you wish through.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/lubiemaslo

It's on private but you can still see if he's banned. All though, not in which games.

Unless you want cheaters profile to turn to public instead. But I don't care about that.

I just want to make sure so that people see this. As you guys don't really thank Valve for it or even talk about it.

Because this is basically what you wanted right?

Wroleader
11-17-2009, 06:57 PM
Read this, please



Valve® respects the privacy of its online visitors and users of its products. Valve recognizes the importance of protecting any information collected from users and has adopted this privacy policy that guides how Valve gathers, stores, and uses information from the use of Valve products and online sites by users.

Haxy
11-17-2009, 08:07 PM
Read this, please

This.

/thread

Ayla
11-17-2009, 10:57 PM
Because this is basically what you wanted right?
No. VAC Status became public information since 2008.
Read this, please
No. The private policy assure the protection of your sensitive user data.

Both of you: It's about the private/public profile on the steamcommunity user. Read this topic again and again. Read my examples also.

Haxy, please stop spamming!

Haxy
11-18-2009, 03:44 AM
Both of you: It's about the private/public profile on the steamcommunity user. Read this topic again and again. Read my examples also.

Steamcommunity is a service (It goes under products) from Valve.
As Valve stated on their privacy policy, "respects the privacy of its online visitors and users of its products."
That means Valve is not "taking privacy away" from users of their products, was user VAC-banned or not.

You can keep trying to bump this thread, but this suggestion is never going trough.
Profiles showing is person VAC-banned or not should be enough for you.

I kindly ask you to stop calling me a spammer and a cheater only becuase I am against your suggestion.

Wroleader
11-18-2009, 11:19 AM
I've highlighted the conflict with this suggestion.

Valve® respects the privacy of its online visitors and users of its products. Valve recognizes the importance of protecting any information collected from users and has adopted this privacy policy that guides how Valve gathers, stores, and uses information from the use of Valve products and online sites by users.

No. The private policy assure the protection of your sensitive user data.

Please, do read what i Highlighted. It offers a clear solving for this thread, once and for all.

Not to mention, stop trying to ignore this;

--The Main Flaw--

First of all, making some of the information in a profile downstraight public without authorization from the user, is indeed an invasion to privacy. If people don't want to reveal their information, just let them be. Otherwise, that's actually denying (I can't stress this enough) their RIGHT to privacy.

--Liberty of Choice--

Even when it's useless information, like the examples Ayla has gave before, it's still information. Even if it's something as simple as "I like cookies", the person can, and has the right to hide that information.

--Cheaters--

Yes, cheaters are bad. They ruin servers, and even more. But, this is why there's this automated system called Valve Anti-Cheat (Or VAC, for short), which automatically detects cheats and bans the user from playing on VAC-Banned servers, depending on the engine his/her game is running.

I despise cheaters too, that's why my HL2DM Server has VAC turned off and after mapchange, it automatically turns on and then it loops.

However, just because a public League is getting overwhelmed by cheaters, it doesn't mean the cheaters have to give their information.

--Changes all out of a sudden--

VALVe cannot make changes like that all out of a sudden. Every Steam user must agree, and even if there's one out of the entire Steam Network, then the changes cannot be made, because it would be unfair for that one person. So, even if it was a good idea, if somebody doesn't like it, it just can't be made. Makes sense, doesn't it?

...Quote Edit: ...Does sv_cheats 1 usage make me a cheater? :P

Thank you for reading, and always make sure everyone gets a fair treatment.

~WroLeader







Cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooookiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

jack254
11-18-2009, 11:30 AM
i think someone has been necro posting this thread

Ayla
11-18-2009, 01:21 PM
i think someone has been necro posting this thread
... Sorry?

Arkane
11-18-2009, 06:46 PM
i think someone has been necro posting this thread

Ayla means you were necromancing posting this thread meaning you resurrected a thread that has been dead for awhile and that there was a reason why it died or he could mean you weren't thinking correctly when you posted this thread because he doesn't agree with you let's find out which one..

Ayla
11-18-2009, 10:23 PM
Arkane, I'm sorry but I haven't found a thread suggesting public profiles for VAC Banned accounts. I've only followed the AnAkIn's thread regarding the VAC status of the people who never setted up a steam community profile, like this one:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197960266169
Then, I've found interesting if we could see/freeze the profiles of those VAC Banned accounts. If the cheater had the possibility to change his profile details or setup it as private after VAC Ban, it will be impossible (or harder) to track him if he's a multicheater. I've posted 3 examples also. One of them has been banned again during the thread and I'm still tracking the others two. As Amish Warhead said, I'm very determined...

Wroleader
11-19-2009, 11:14 AM
You should have said so in the very beginning.

Because what you said here, is quite misleading:

Is there any reason for the banned profiles to (still) remain as "private" after VAC banned?

For example, trying to keep our server clean, we usualy "hunt" and book keeping cheaters, suspects and ex-cheaters like this one:

-snip-

Having more than 7 accounts is very hard to trace this kind of "player" (sorry, he is not a "player" - he is a real "cheater"!) mostly if the banned account remains or is changed to "private" after ban.
Privacy? Why? Since this guy acts like a lunatic on our servers having no shame or respect? Trust me, this is very frustrating for any owner, admin or ... player.

My suggestion is:

Banned accounts should become "public" after VAC banned; the "owner" (please read "cheater") having no possibility to change his personal info after ban.


However, since it's still denying their privacy rights, you should change it to something like:

The cheater cannot change his/her personal information for <insert amount of time here>

Now THAT is different, but since it will set the profile as an open book for a while, then yet another change:

Your account, and only yours can see the cheater's information for 10 days, after they get banned. That gives you more than one week, and the ability to see their "information". That way, it isn't such of a Privacy infraction. But yet, this also denies their right to hide information from any and all users.

So, yet another change:

A Cheater tracking team, which are a team composed only of trusted people, that tracks cheaters like you do, Ayla. And they have access to the information (no, not the Steam Username nor Password -.-) of any banned account.

Yet, this still conflicts with something, but i can't quite put my finger on it.


Also, careful, as false positives do exist. The Half-Life 1 Paranoia mod is a VERY good example of that. It uses a modded .dll file to increase the graphics of the game, yet it gets you VAC Banned when you launch the original Half-Life without deleting/moving/renaming the file.

So, this also denies the fact that VAC does NOT make mistakes.











...But i'm still against this suggestion :p

Ayla
12-09-2009, 05:49 AM
Newsflash!

p0seyd0n still having fun on STEAM:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197995308187 : STEAM_0:1:17521229 - "just in case" STEAM account
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198005380102 : STEAM_0:0:22557187 - linking accounts
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198007118190 : STEAM_0:0:23426231 - ESL
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198011653319 : STEAM_0:1:25693795 - sold
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198012927327 : STEAM_0:1:26330799 - banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013200386 : STEAM_0:0:26467329 - banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013765382 : STEAM_0:0:26749827 - banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014117547 : STEAM_0:1:26925909 - ESL
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014536087 : STEAM_0:1:27135179 - banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198015719216 : STEAM_0:0:27726744 - actual L2D2 & TF2


Another case: neXt`DECE (http://www.esl.eu/balkans/cs/ebl_season1/player/2030510/)> old account VAC Banned (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197997036684)| new account > VAC Ban in pending (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198007689248). Aequitas has detected that he was using wallhack during a match with Bulgarian team. So, this time it's about cheating in international competition: http://www.esl.eu/balkans/news/106835/

A real drama for Romanian CS gaming. The team sponsor and the entire Romanian community are amazed. Lately, we found out that almost all ex-neXtplease players have an old VAC Banned account ... We are still investigating this matter. All these would be avoided if we knew all these sensitive details ... "Trusting" is not enough.

True or false: Once a cheater, always a cheater?!?

In his own statement (http://next-please.ro/Counter-Strike/declaratia-lui-liviu-dece-munteanu.html) (romanian language), he claims that the opponent team was using also an undetectable wallhack cheat. I think he knows better ... Damn cheater!...

So, STEAM/VALVE, please find a solution and help us.

Thanks in advance for your kind consideration and support.

DelianSK13
12-09-2009, 10:46 PM
This thread is full of win.

People's rights vrs a gaming tournament.

Seriously. How can this not go wrong?

CheeseGamer
12-09-2009, 10:56 PM
This thread is full of win.

People's rights vrs a gaming tournament.

Seriously. How can this not go wrong?

I would have to agree under my belief of the "Right to Privacy," but I could agree that not being able to change the profile details (or requiring a STEAM Representative to allow changes to the profile(?)) would be useful.

Ayla
12-10-2009, 12:20 AM
DECE's statement (http://next-please.ro/Counter-Strike/declaratia-lui-liviu-dece-munteanu.html) translated in English (sorry for mistakes, if any):

I do not know exactly how to begin. I like to describe what feelings I'm trying now.

Firstly, it was the most foolish gesture which I did in my career in pro-gamer, a gesture for which we lost in 10 minutes what has been built in many years of hard work.

Referring to the match versus Bulgarians from HD I can say that after the first map played with them I had already the nerves lay at maximum. I invite everyone to follow carefully the demos/ pov of their matches in groups and semifinal, where my view is that this shows clearly that they used some wallhack cheats (you can see very simple, because it's obvious why emerged pulling, Target already put in situations impossible). It also visible when they left us to take rounds, losing stupidly (deliberately).

In conclusion, personally I know that I have no mitigating circumstances for what I did, but I repeat I did it to nerves, I thought selfish and now pay for it. I underline that what I've done was strictly related to a decision taken by me personally, my colleagues had no knowledge that I activated a cheat for a minute, they were not knowingly, so I fully take the blame.

About my future as a player - I don't think I will ever play Counter Strike taking in consideration my exclusion from competitions organized by ESL.

I apologize to the people behind nextPlease (Michael and Daniel) because I disappointed and I want to thank for that what they did for us and because they trusted the team of CS. I hope however to continue with sedan, AN, SZR and snapple because they have no guilt.

I am sorry that I have concluded my career in this way, I apologize to my team players, I apologize to our fans and I apologize to the organization for their image injury I brought. I regret that I experienced moments anyone who would like to live with you all, this is another reason for which I AM SORRY!

Signed : Liviu 'DecE' Munteanu aka neXt`DECE


So, it is very clear for us that (in DECE's case) Aequitas detected a wallcheat which is (for the moment) undetected by VALVE but (regarding the Bulgarian team) there is another cheat which is not detected by anyone. As I said, a pro-cheater knows better.


I could agree that not being able to change the profile details (or requiring a STEAM Representative to allow changes to the profile(?)) would be useful.
Useful yes, but, for sure, it will be not enough ... That's why we need a solution. In this case we forced the player to setup those profiles as public.

Any suggestion will be very welcomed.

Fatdude
12-10-2009, 12:45 AM
Ayla you want to make the banned steam account public.Its a great idea and will help ppl like you to clean the cheaters out of the game but he has rights even if its not steam there are still humans rights laws.The thing you are asking might be against that law.Did you check that?

Ayla
12-10-2009, 12:59 AM
Fatdude, do you have a profile on any other community like Yahoo, hi5, Facebook, Twitter, etc.? So, what privacy we are talking about? It's about your own profile visible on SC. Could be like this (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197981587456)
or like this (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197971654377) depending of what and how much information you add in the profile. After you are VAC Banned ... your profile usually will look like this (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197963301387).

There are a lot of comments about this at the beginning of this thread. Please read.

Ayla
12-10-2009, 01:03 AM
The thing you are asking might be against that law.
Oh yeah! Just sue me 'cause I've saved your profile details before you've been VAC Banned!
hihihihih :)))

Fatdude
12-10-2009, 01:03 AM
I dont have any Facebook Twiter or yahoo or any other comunity profiles.The privacy is that that person can choose if he wants to show it or not.
Even if a account is vac banned you can still play games with that that doesnt use Vac as multiplayer cheat detection and every singleplayer game.
Vac banned account is still log-in-able and its a valid account that cannot use multiplayer on some games.

Fatdude
12-10-2009, 01:06 AM
Oh yeah! Just sue me 'cause I've saved your profile details before you've been VAC Banned!
hihihihih :)))

You wont be the one that will be in trouble but steam will be.I wrote " If steam did what you have asked steam might be breaking a human rights law."I was probably not that clear

Ayla
12-10-2009, 01:12 AM
The privacy is that that person can choose if he wants to show it or not.
So it's everything about your SC profile, not the game or person itself... If VAC Banned ... SC should do something. For the moment we have VAC Status.

I kindly ask you to read the thread to avoid things we've already discussed and clarified.

Ayla
12-12-2009, 08:25 PM
4 days ago ... :

Newsflash!

p0seyd0n still having fun on STEAM:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197995308187
...

Well, this multi-account cheater has been just VAC banned ... again. Thanks VALVE!

AnAkIn
12-30-2009, 05:16 AM
4 days ago ... :



Well, this multi-account cheater has been just VAC banned ... again. Thanks VALVE!

That's a cafe account. It'll get unbanned once the cafe owner contact Valve.

Ayla
12-31-2009, 09:22 AM
That's a cafe account. It'll get unbanned once the cafe owner contact Valve.
Are you sure, AnAkIn? This one is real multi-accounts cheater we've just banned from ESL... This STEAM profile is "personalized" (swearing at me ... "please do not add me to Friends ~~~~~~~~~ AYLA s*** my d*** ") also VAC banned on the other account, yesterday:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198015719216
So, in this moment, he owns 11 accounts, 6 of them VAC Banned ...

PS: A Happy New Year! ;)

AnAkIn
12-31-2009, 04:36 PM
Are you sure, AnAkIn? This one is real multi-accounts cheater we've just banned from ESL... This STEAM profile is "personalized" (swearing at me ... "please do not add me to Friends ~~~~~~~~~ AYLA s*** my d*** ") also VAC banned on the other account, yesterday:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198015719216
So, in this moment, he owns 11 accounts, 6 of them VAC Banned ...

PS: A Happy New Year! ;)

Yes, 170 games accounts are cafe accounts. So he either stole it, or played in a cafe. Cafe accounts profiles look exactly like any user, except that the number of games is a lot higher :)

BTW I'm an ESL Admin.

Vithigar
12-31-2009, 05:26 PM
Yes, 170 games accounts are cafe accounts. So he either stole it, or played in a cafe. Cafe accounts profiles look exactly like any user, except that the number of games is a lot higher :)

BTW I'm an ESL Admin.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/xjph/

My personal account, not a café, 175 games.

hayden493
12-31-2009, 09:54 PM
Hmm, you could 170 or more games you know, alot of money down the drain.

planetarian
01-02-2010, 01:44 AM
Normal users set their information as private for a reason, and account theft is just something that happens. Not everyone knows how to properly secure their systems and accounts.

If Guy A steals the account owned by Guy B whose information is set to private, then Guy A cheats with that account and gets banned, the private information would then be made public. If there was information that could be used to further identify Guy B, or private information that only his friends should be allowed to know, that could be a potentially serious privacy issue. With data as simple as gameplay stats, that's simply a privacy policy violation, plain and simple.

If I don't want you seeing my play data, that's my choice. Nobody has any right to tell me my information isn't worth keeping private, and Valve is obligated to uphold that based on their privacy policy. If my account gets jacked and my private information is suddenly viewable for anyone, it's a serious violation no matter how trivial the information.


I'm all for getting rid of the 'real' cheaters, but a solution is needed that will not be exploitable or raise privacy concerns. As far as I'm concerned, the 'real' issue that needs to be addressed is that repeat VAC-banned users are able to easily get back into the game and resume cheating.

mreeuwij
01-02-2010, 12:34 PM
blah blah, trick is just to invert methods... instead of "blacklisting" start "whitelisting"...

Keep record players over time, and they can only start on a higher ladder if playing for a year (or seasons or w/e) in the current one.... shifts them all out, cos they will get banned way sooner. Say having 4 "steps" for it. A being highest, D being lowest. players start in D, no prices there or whatever. after one season/year they can go up in the ladder to C. The lowest graded player of the clan just determines what they can play. They have to be very selective in the clan then to be in the highest class. If still checking out, they can be in the "pro" classes above this so called ladder.

No cheater gets up in the ladder far this way, and once they are up in the ladder they really WONT cheat, cos they worked too hard to get that far.

Ayla
01-02-2010, 07:31 PM
...No cheater gets up in the ladder far this way, and once they are up in the ladder they really WONT cheat, cos they worked too hard to get that far.
Sorry to disillusion you, but please read my post 137 on page 10 of this thread. You'll be a little bit disappointed...

Dethstar
01-07-2010, 08:51 AM
I agree with the poster. Name and Shame them. Like the rest of society we often protect those least deserving to the cost of those of us that do try and play nice.

Ayla
01-07-2010, 11:15 AM
BTW I'm an ESL Admin.

AnAkIn, this is a real issue in ESL = Multi-account cheater's Heaven ... I have so many ... The last one (not correctly listed in your database) is JuST coCO, 7 accounts, 5 of them VAC banned ... :

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198011637444 : STEAM_0:0:25685858 - ESL (http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/gameaccounts/4263162/)
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198012094295 : STEAM_0:1:25914283 - banned (ESL (http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/gameaccounts/4263162/))
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013292064 : STEAM_0:0:26513168 - banned (ESL (http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/gameaccounts/4404356/))
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198018414160 : STEAM_0:0:29074216 - banned (ESL (http://www.esl.eu/ro/player/gameaccounts/4689687/))
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198018415802 : STEAM_0:0:29075037 - actual
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198012722747 : STEAM_0:1:26228509 - banned
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013805183 : STEAM_0:1:26769727 - banned

Trying to alert the ESL Romanian admins I was only humiliated, pushed, attacked and finally punished ... Reffering to just one account, it tooks me around 2 months to convince ESL management that I've right ... Some accounts has been deleted but that's all ... Everything stops there, at admins level.

Ayla
01-13-2010, 04:02 PM
AnAkIn, this is a real issue in ESL = Multi-account cheater's Heaven ... I have so many ... The last one (not correctly listed in your database) is JuST coCO, 7 accounts, 5 of them VAC banned ...
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198018415802 : STEAM_0:0:29075037 - actual....


Well ... right now, are 6 of them banned :
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198018415802 : STEAM_0:0:29075037 - VAC banned 13/01/2010 :o

p0seyd0n
01-20-2010, 06:48 AM
wow cooooool is this a discusion about me ? AWESOMME ! so what u guys wanna know ? ask me and il answer :D

p0seyd0n
01-20-2010, 06:49 AM
BTW - AYLA = A GAY DUDE THATS ♥♥♥♥ING AROUND STEAM AND IS LIKE A PEDOFIL ! HE IS A GUY NOT A WOMAN FFS

p0seyd0n
01-20-2010, 06:52 AM
--------- on this i dont cheat -------


LOOOOOOOOOL

xD

ANEKi
01-20-2010, 01:09 PM
--------- on this i dont cheat -------


LOOOOOOOOOL

xD

You're a ♥♥♥♥.

thunderraiden
10-12-2010, 01:53 PM
was surfing and found this. Since i got my account hi-jacked and banned on cs 1.6 2 years ago even though im a CS:S only player i can no longer play in leagues or get a team without getting a new account. you're saying even thought my account was stolen and the vac ban made public so i could never play again without buying a new game of CS:S just because some kid hacked on cs 1.6..... thats fair... thats real fair. I

Easton Dark
10-12-2010, 01:57 PM
was surfing and found this. Since i got my account hi-jacked and banned on cs 1.6 2 years ago even though im a CS:S only player i can no longer play in leagues or get a team without getting a new account. you're saying even thought my account was stolen and the vac ban made public so i could never play again without buying a new game of CS:S just because some kid hacked on cs 1.6..... thats fair... thats real fair. I

Well don't get hijacked. Your inability to do so impacted the games of people who played with the hacker.

Zefar
10-12-2010, 02:30 PM
was surfing and found this. Since i got my account hi-jacked and banned on cs 1.6 2 years ago even though im a CS:S only player i can no longer play in leagues or get a team without getting a new account. you're saying even thought my account was stolen and the vac ban made public so i could never play again without buying a new game of CS:S just because some kid hacked on cs 1.6..... thats fair... thats real fair. I

That's not what this topic is about. I think the topic is done for and it's back from 2009. They got their feature as well.

If you want information on VAC. Check the stickies in this VAC forum. http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=35