DX11 & shift-TAB = a nono

bogyserver · 02-18-2012, 02:25 PM

it seems that with the dx11 update you can't use shift-tab anymore to use the steam interface while ingame... at least i can't...

this is very annoying as i cannot chat with my friends anymore while playing la noire.

anyone else having this issue and/or having found a fix (except for using alt-tab all the time to get to the windows desktop and chat over there, as this is prone to let your game crash over time...)

Diegog5 · 02-18-2012, 02:59 PM

With DX11 you must have another window opened before you run the game in order to alt tab while running La Noire. The steam overlay doesn't work with DX11.

bogyserver · 02-19-2012, 08:21 AM

it's not that alt-tab doesn't work... it's just that it's not the proper way...

but i didn't know that the steam overlay didn't work with dx11; that's new for me; as with dx10 it does work, so i thought that there wouldn't be any issues on the dx11 setting... now i know and i'll remember.
I hope that valve will fix this soon, since it's a common used feature to use the overlay nowadays; you want to be able to chat...

I guess we'll have to wait a bit...

Amplitude · 02-26-2012, 11:44 AM

Alt-Tab still works for me.
Dx11 max settings
Playing it right now, just having a rest while i have a sandwich.
Dunno about Shift-tab, hardley ever use it.

bogyserver · 03-13-2012, 03:55 PM

since DX11 gives me much much better performance as compared to dx9, i was really annoyed that i always had to alt-tab to windows to check if anyone said soemthing to me...

so i'm very very glad that since today i finally have my community overlay in dx11 mode ...
so everyone, get the patch and the problem's fixed!

ps: if you have worse performance with the DX11 setting, then you probably don't have a real dx11 graphics card... in those cases you're bound to dx9.
Some gfx cards are even sold as dx11 cards, but they're only compatible with dx11; it's not the same as being a real dx11 card.
One of those cards is the nvidia 250gts. this is actually a Nvidia 9800GTX that has been rebranded and is a pure dx9 card. It can run dx10 and dx11 games but it's performance in those gamemodes is a lot worse then the dx9 mode.
This card can handle most of the functions that are in dx11, but the ones that it cannot handle with it's own hardware are being done by your cpu (which is a much more flexible reprogrammable chip compared to the hardware of the gfx card) and this really takes out a lot of the performance.

In the olden days you also had this with the T&L function (transform & lighting). Some cards could do this by hardware (the first geforces), others couldnt, and those were only good at rendering pixels and filling them, the lighting was done by the cpu.. an example of such a card was the (in)famous Kyro2 card.
It was much faster in rendering, and as long as games didn't use t&l it was one of the fastest, as soon as T&L came in it was beaten by even the slowest geforce cards....
The kyro was a special card at it's time because it used so called 'Tile based rendering'. It didn't render what was out of sight as opposed to other cards... that made it very efficient with it's resources... but the cpu was tearing down it's speed as soon as it was using something that wasn't built into the hardwarespecs of the card...

so if your DX11 setting is making the game go slow; it's your hardware that can't handle it. If the dx9 setting is ALSO too slow; consider buying some upgrades for your system (more ram helps a lot, a new gfx card also helps a lot!) or try to play with lower quality settings...

I have an Intel c2d E6850 + AMD HD6850 and 6gb ram; with dx9 i can play the game but i have to put the settings a bit lower; especially the enviroment map, texture quality, lighting quality and shadow quality can't run at max if i want to be able to have a smooth game; with dx11 i can set everything to the max... I play at 1280*1024 with 4x anisotropic filtering and 4x AA

I hope that for some of you this could help..

Aura891 · 03-13-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogyserver

One of those cards is the nvidia 250gts. this is actually a Nvidia 9800GTX that has been rebranded and is a pure dx9 card.

Please don't go spewing out garbage when you don't know what you're talking about....

Geforce GTS 250 is in fact a 9800 GTX+, so you are correct there, and a 9800 GTX+ is the same GPU architecture as the 8800 GT and GTS 512

where you are incorrect is that it is NOT a DX9 card, it is a DX10 card

the fact that you stated that you can play DX10/11 games with the GTS 250 in itself says it is not a DX9 only card, as DX9 only cards CAN NOT in ANY way play DX10/11 games or settings

Every card from the nvidia 8000 and further can play DX10 and 11 games, but not all cards are DX11, so again you are correct, sort of, as DX10 cards can run DX11 and can sometimes get a performance increase from it but can not actually utilize the DX11 features

So you may be correct that most people who do not get a performance increase in the game might be using a DX10 card not a DX11 card, but the part about DX9 and GTS 250 is completely 100% wrong

bogyserver · 03-13-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aura891

Please don't go spewing out garbage when you don't know what you're talking about....

I am sorry for being human; which are known for mistaking...

I mixed up the dx9 with dx10... I know the G9x and G8x cores were all dx10 cards, they were released while vista/7 were on market and vista was boasting dx10 while xp is still on dx9.0c today. (xp is greatly outdated and in my eyes prehistoric)

dx10 cards are missing features like tesselation to be able to fully support dx11... that's why i upgraded my gts250 some time ago with an HD6850 (after some nvidia's back to ati/amd).

And don't be so rude about people not knowing what they're talking about; it could well be that i have tons of technical info in my grey cells of which you have no clue at all... I'm working with hardware for more then 25 years now; i go way back to assembling my own 386sx25Mhz with a 40MB hd and adding some 256K 30 pins simms on the board so i had a fantastic total 2.688 KB of ram...

back then we didn't even had directx or 3d cards... not even AGP; it was the age of ISA cards (almost outdated then) and VLB was looking around the corner (just like PCI which took over the world because intel was backing it)

Aura891 · 03-13-2012, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogyserver

And don't be so rude about people not knowing what they're talking about;

I am sorry, i jump the gun sometimes when people start telling hardware information yet telling it wrong as some people will read it and never believe another word someone else says against it again and i have to deal with those people on a daily bases, lol

but sorry for being rude

bogyserver · 03-14-2012, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aura891

but sorry for being rude

you are forgiven; don't worry...

02-18-2012, 02:25 PM	#1
bogyserver Join Date: Jul 2011 Reputation: 3 Posts: 21	DX11 & shift-TAB = a nono it seems that with the dx11 update you can't use shift-tab anymore to use the steam interface while ingame... at least i can't... this is very annoying as i cannot chat with my friends anymore while playing la noire. anyone else having this issue and/or having found a fix (except for using alt-tab all the time to get to the windows desktop and chat over there, as this is prone to let your game crash over time...)

02-18-2012, 02:59 PM	#2
Diegog5 Join Date: Dec 2008 Reputation: 51 Posts: 210	With DX11 you must have another window opened before you run the game in order to alt tab while running La Noire. The steam overlay doesn't work with DX11. Last edited by Diegog5: 02-18-2012 at 08:48 PM.

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02-19-2012, 08:21 AM	#3
bogyserver Join Date: Jul 2011 Reputation: 3 Posts: 21	it's not that alt-tab doesn't work... it's just that it's not the proper way... but i didn't know that the steam overlay didn't work with dx11; that's new for me; as with dx10 it does work, so i thought that there wouldn't be any issues on the dx11 setting... now i know and i'll remember. I hope that valve will fix this soon, since it's a common used feature to use the overlay nowadays; you want to be able to chat... I guess we'll have to wait a bit...

02-26-2012, 11:44 AM	#4
Amplitude Join Date: Mar 2011 Reputation: 0 Posts: 31	Alt-Tab still works for me. Dx11 max settings Playing it right now, just having a rest while i have a sandwich. Dunno about Shift-tab, hardley ever use it.

03-13-2012, 03:55 PM	#5
bogyserver Join Date: Jul 2011 Reputation: 3 Posts: 21	since DX11 gives me much much better performance as compared to dx9, i was really annoyed that i always had to alt-tab to windows to check if anyone said soemthing to me... so i'm very very glad that since today i finally have my community overlay in dx11 mode ... so everyone, get the patch and the problem's fixed! ps: if you have worse performance with the DX11 setting, then you probably don't have a real dx11 graphics card... in those cases you're bound to dx9. Some gfx cards are even sold as dx11 cards, but they're only compatible with dx11; it's not the same as being a real dx11 card. One of those cards is the nvidia 250gts. this is actually a Nvidia 9800GTX that has been rebranded and is a pure dx9 card. It can run dx10 and dx11 games but it's performance in those gamemodes is a lot worse then the dx9 mode. This card can handle most of the functions that are in dx11, but the ones that it cannot handle with it's own hardware are being done by your cpu (which is a much more flexible reprogrammable chip compared to the hardware of the gfx card) and this really takes out a lot of the performance. In the olden days you also had this with the T&L function (transform & lighting). Some cards could do this by hardware (the first geforces), others couldnt, and those were only good at rendering pixels and filling them, the lighting was done by the cpu.. an example of such a card was the (in)famous Kyro2 card. It was much faster in rendering, and as long as games didn't use t&l it was one of the fastest, as soon as T&L came in it was beaten by even the slowest geforce cards.... The kyro was a special card at it's time because it used so called 'Tile based rendering'. It didn't render what was out of sight as opposed to other cards... that made it very efficient with it's resources... but the cpu was tearing down it's speed as soon as it was using something that wasn't built into the hardwarespecs of the card... so if your DX11 setting is making the game go slow; it's your hardware that can't handle it. If the dx9 setting is ALSO too slow; consider buying some upgrades for your system (more ram helps a lot, a new gfx card also helps a lot!) or try to play with lower quality settings... I have an Intel c2d E6850 + AMD HD6850 and 6gb ram; with dx9 i can play the game but i have to put the settings a bit lower; especially the enviroment map, texture quality, lighting quality and shadow quality can't run at max if i want to be able to have a smooth game; with dx11 i can set everything to the max... I play at 1280*1024 with 4x anisotropic filtering and 4x AA I hope that for some of you this could help..