VAC status:ban(s) on record - Privacy??? Why?

[Ayla]

Originally Posted by IcarusNine

It's a bit much to read everything considering you mostly end up arguing with Haxy and a few others over privacy.

Sorry, not my fault ... Please read:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...8&postcount=18
http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...8&postcount=28
http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...5&postcount=71

[IcarusNine]

So all you want are the friends list and the 'Member Since' gameplay stat?

The 'Member Since' gameplay stat could always be made public, just like the VAC status... It's just archival, so unless someone is shy about their join date on Steam there's no reason to keep it private.

The reason for using the friends list I didn't see, but maybe I could imagine a reason or two.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how safe it is to lock the friends list on a community page; unless friends and community features are also disabled for that steam account, the friends list would either have to update when a friend is added or removed or it would have to be stored seperately from the account's actual friends list and become out of date if someone continued to use the account. The former defeats the purpose of making it public, and the latter seems prone to mess-ups.

[Gaesadair]

Originally Posted by Ayla

I'm taking here about "legitimate" cheaters, VAC banned(!) accounts which have a bigger importance for me than your legitimate "users", incapable to protect their accounts from stealing! Why mixing all these things?

Because you are mixing them in with your proposed change. This topic is about making some private profiles public, because that's what your proposed change will accomplish. It's not only about tracking cheaters, because as previously shown legitimate users will also be affected by your proposed change.

That you don't care about legitimate users is irrelevant; it doesn't make the change not affect legitimate users. I understand that you are only interested in tracking cheaters. I don't mind the tracking of cheaters. But your proposed change will harm legitimate users regardless of who you personally are interested in tracking.

If you don't care about legitimate users, you have no reason to care about my posts. I am not posting here for your benefit (as you've made it clear you don't care about legitimate users) but for the benefit of whoever from Valve reads this topic.

[Gaesadair]

Originally Posted by T_Flight

This does not affect legitimate users in any way. We wouldn't be looking for them. What? Do you think an Admin is just gonna go searching randomly through MILLIONS of users at random? Hell NO! Their gonna search the profile of the CHEATER they are having to deal with. This is WHY it only will only affect cheaters.

So only admins are going to search through users? That's a naive assumption to make. If information that a legitimate user made private is made public, anyone can find said information, not only admins who are looking for cheaters.

Also, I don't think "read it again" is a useful response. Obviously we differ as to what the text of the agreement says. Just saying "read it again" is not a useful response because I am sure of my interpretation and you are sure of your interpretation. The agreement does, to my eye, only make one kind of information releasable: "your use of Cheats"; no other information is stated as propagatable by Valve in that agreement. If you disagree you're going to have to show me how you interpret the text, not just spout "read it again".

[Gaesadair]

Originally Posted by T_Flight

So your saying that somebody is gonna wake up one day and just start searching through Millions of user's profiles at random?

If someone knows that there may be sensitive information put in some profiles that will be made public, I bet it will be done. Not by random people, but by people who wish to use said information. I can even see an added incentive for people to compromise others' accounts, if they can get access to potentially private information. No, most profiles won't have sensitive information in them, but then most profiles aren't private - those legitimate users who set their profile to private most likely have a reason to do so.

Originally Posted by T_Flight

Why would they do that? That's not what we're talking about here. It's completely off topic. What we're talking about here is Admin's and Admin's only. Anybody else is irrelevant to the topic.

Wrong. Random people have no use for private profile information, but phishers, scammers, botnet herders, stalkers, etc. do. And, of course, admins who are looking for cheaters. My point is that if you open profiles to admins, you also open them to phishers, scammers, botnet herders, stalkers, and so on.

This topic is about a suggestion. Anything that pertains to said suggestion is on topic.

[Ayla]

Originally Posted by Gaesadair

My point is that if you open profiles to admins, you also open them to phishers, scammers, botnet herders, stalkers, and so on.

Ah! My brain hurts! Read what you've written boy ... My profile is public! Should I change it because of this? hahaha
I think you're watching movies too much.

In real life, I can track you down, checking your IP, ISP, searching for your profiles and personal data on hi5, Facebook, Tweeter, etc. then I will hire someone to kill you and you're down in a minute. Right?

Well, this is only a GAME, dear!... Enough with fake supposition! It's only a game where some idiots are trying to ruin all, since we are continuously trying to trace and shot them down, protecting our servers and leagues and not the cheaters as I've seen some of you are doing here.

Yes, it's only an attested suggestion, but seems that no one from VALVE or a mod is reading this.

I've gave you enough examples ... With or without your help I will try to build and sign a petition to VALVE to remove that "private" option for all VAC Banned accounts.

Wish me luck!

OK, who wants to start to write one?
T_Flight? Seems that you are the proper person to compose it.

PS: Thanks so much for your valuable help! :-*

[Gaesadair]

Originally Posted by Ayla

Ah! My brain hurts! Read what you've written boy ... My profile is public! Should I change it because of this? hahaha
I think you're watching movies too much.

Since your profile is public I doubt you're going to put any information in it that you don't wish strangers to know about, so no I don't think you should change it because of this. However, people who set their profile to private (and aren't cheaters, but may have their account compromised in a way which causes VAC to ban them) may have put private information in there that they don't wish strangers to know about.

And no, I'm not talking about people coming to your house (though if it's a stalker, that may well happen if you put your address in your private profile and it is then made public). Identity theft, scamming (these users have already shown their security to be weak, after all, by getting their Steam account compromised), botnet infection (same reason), phishing (again, same reason). All these are things that are being done right now, over the internet. If false-positive VAC bans get their private profiles made public, I can see perpetrators of these crimes adding a Steam profile sweep for contact information to their search bots.

Why do you assume I am a boy?

[MackP]

Originally Posted by Gaesadair

Since your profile is public I doubt you're going to put any information in it that you don't wish strangers to know about, so no I don't think you should change it because of this. However, people who set their profile to private (and aren't cheaters, but may have their account compromised in a way which causes VAC to ban them) may have put private information in there that they don't wish strangers to know about.

And no, I'm not talking about people coming to your house (though if it's a stalker, that may well happen if you put your address in your private profile and it is then made public). Identity theft, scamming (these users have already shown their security to be weak, after all, by getting their Steam account compromised), botnet infection (same reason), phishing (again, same reason). All these are things that are being done right now, over the internet. If false-positive VAC bans get their private profiles made public, I can see perpetrators of these crimes adding a Steam profile sweep for contact information to their search bots.

First of all, don't spam that crap about false positives and malware causing VAC bans, because that does not exist.
Every game mod that causes VAC ban is known (2 or 3 of them for entire time that VAC2 exist), and various viruses and similar malware simply don't cause VAC bans because they don't modify core game files in a way that matches a cheat signature that VAC recognizes.
VAC only bans for known cheats.
Every VAC ban is caused by cheating, either on purpose or by getting your account hacked and cheated on. Period.

Now with that said, do you seriously believe that someone who got his account compromised and is not a cheater, will not change any sensitive information on his profile page long before a possible VAC ban?
Any reasonable person would, tech savvy or not.

[Gaesadair]

Originally Posted by MackP

Every VAC ban is caused by cheating, either on purpose or by getting your account hacked and cheated on. Period.

Saying this is true doesn't make it so. In the absence of good statistics, the worst-case scenario is the safest assumption to make. I haven't seen good statistics on this, so I am making the assumption of a worst-case scenario with what limited information is available in the wikipedia link posted earlier in this thread.

Originally Posted by MackP

do you seriously believe that someone who got his account compromised and is not a cheater, will not change any sensitive information on his profile page long before a possible VAC ban?

A compromised account may or may not be currently in use; a compromised account may or may not be obvious until the VAC ban happens. And if someone actually steals your account, how are you going to log in to change your profile?

[Ayla]

Originally Posted by Gaesadair

In the absence of good statistics

Sorry, but YOU are very limited ... Could you please stop here? There are a lot of statistics out there. Of course, nobody will tell you how many accounts are VAC Banned or … “hacked” lol!

For your information, strictly referring to the VAC Banned accounts, according to AnAkIn’s statistic:

8.06% of Steam accounts checked are VAC banned
314677 SteamID banned of 3903742 checked

Just imagine that I’ve personally injected there more than 300! As a personal record, I’ve tracked in time ~100 of them, accounts that are already VAC banned(!), while I’m tracking 18 of them, which represent cheaters that are still trying to come back, cheating! Small numbers but enough to keep my servers cleaned!

Originally Posted by Gaesadair

..if someone actually steals your account, how are you going to log in to change your profile?

WOW! If YOU can change it, means that your account isn't stolen, right?! And I repeat: We are talking here about VAC Banned accounts, not stolen or puppies or merry-go-rounds ...

Originally Posted by Gaesadair

... a compromised account may or may not be obvious until the VAC ban happens

You're totally lost ...

If you're continue supposing, trying to find answers to your stupid questions please be informed that this isn't the right place. You have a lot of information and complete instructions in KB for ALL these kinds of “horrible” situations you might encounter by yourself just because you don't care about your own account … Try https://support.steampowered.com instead!

Of course, I realize that my suggestion is based on experience you don't have, but read and learn, at least!

Also, remember that it’s easy to track a suspect but it’s harder to prove he’s a cheater. During a match or competition you can’t wait VAC ban. Having accurate information you cannot miss the target but remember that the decision is harder because it should be faultless…

As I said, I'm not tracking “anyone”. I have my "specials" I hunt since 3 years ago: multi-accounts cheaters that ruin the game. SC profiles help me a lot but I have also my own methods to track down a cheater before he's VAC Banned.

I’m sure you haven’t red all the topic, else you would find an account VAC banned while we are speaking here …

[Haxy]

Originally Posted by Ayla

Sorry, but YOU are very limited ... Could you please stop here? There are a lot of statistics out there. Of course, nobody will tell you how many accounts are VAC Banned or … “hacked” lol!

For your information, strictly referring to the VAC Banned accounts, according to AnAkIn’s statistic:

Just imagine that I’ve personally injected there more than 300! As a personal record, I’ve tracked in time ~100 of them, accounts that are already VAC banned(!), while I’m tracking 18 of them, which represent cheaters that are still trying to come back, cheating! Small numbers but enough to keep my servers cleaned!


WOW! If YOU can change it, means that your account isn't stolen, right?! And I repeat: We are talking here about VAC Banned accounts, not stolen or puppies or merry-go-rounds ...


You're totally lost ...

If you're continue supposing, trying to find answers to your stupid questions please be informed that this isn't the right place. You have a lot of information and complete instructions in KB for ALL these kinds of “horrible” situations you might encounter by yourself just because you don't care about your own account … Try https://support.steampowered.com instead!

Of course, I realize that my suggestion is based on experience you don't have, but read and learn, at least!

Also, remember that it’s easy to track a suspect but it’s harder to prove he’s a cheater. During a match or competition you can’t wait VAC ban. Having accurate information you cannot miss the target but remember that the decision is harder because it should be faultless…

As I said, I'm not tracking “anyone”. I have my "specials" I hunt since 3 years ago: multi-accounts cheaters that ruin the game. SC profiles help me a lot but I have also my own methods to track down a cheater before he's VAC Banned.

I’m sure you haven’t red all the topic, else you would find an account VAC banned while we are speaking here …

Statics on vacbanned.com isn't "valid" as it doesn't include all Steam accounts and users mostly adds only VAC-banned accounts there.

We are basically talking about stolen accounts here as hijacker can get VAC ban on stolen account.

[Ayla]

Originally Posted by Haxy

Statics on vacbanned.com isn't "valid" as it doesn't include all Steam accounts and users mostly adds only VAC-banned accounts there.

You'll never get that.

Originally Posted by Haxy

We are basically talking about stolen accounts here as hijacker can get VAC ban on stolen account.

Not in this topic. You have KB for this.

Lazy dude ... Learn to extract the main idea, not quoting everybody...

[Gaesadair]

Originally Posted by Ayla

Sorry, but YOU are very limited ... Could you please stop here? There are a lot of statistics out there. Of course, nobody will tell you how many accounts are VAC Banned or … “hacked” lol!

Which means there aren't good statistics available (that you or I know about, if this is the best you can come up with), so I must assume the worst-case. I am sick and tired of your condescending attitude in this thread, and I think I have made my point sufficiently for anyone from Valve so I'll stop here as you ask.

[MackP]

Originally Posted by Gaesadair

Saying this is true doesn't make it so. In the absence of good statistics, the worst-case scenario is the safest assumption to make. I haven't seen good statistics on this, so I am making the assumption of a worst-case scenario with what limited information is available in the wikipedia link posted earlier in this thread.

Cheating isn't assumption, your imaginary viruses that cause VAC bans are. Try to find a single case on these forums where someone reported a virus caused VAC ban (giving that he can provide the infected file). When you find one, let me know.
Until then, lay off the assumptions in this thread.

Originally Posted by Gaesadair

A compromised account may or may not be currently in use; a compromised account may or may not be obvious until the VAC ban happens. And if someone actually steals your account, how are you going to log in to change your profile?

Again tons of assumptions and "may or may not"s. Please try to stick to facts.
Facts are:
1) VAC bans for known cheats, not viruses.
2) Banned accounts were being used, otherwise there's no way they could have been compromised. When I wasn't using my account for 6 months, it hasn't been magically hacked. People that are saying that, are either cheaters or liars. I've seen enough of those on these forums.

You are the one here only making assumptions.
Do you have anything that can corroborate your statements? Any examples? Or you're just having fun from your chair late at night?

[Jarate Lover]

WOW, I think someone needs to get out of the house. It's sad when you spend all your time trying to track cheaters, and obsessing with them. Oh well tho, your time, enjoy.

Here is an idea. If there is a cheater on a server ban him. If he comes back after spending more money on an account, ban him. That would keep your server clean. Active admins on servers is all any server needs.

Anyways, you're wasting your time. Valve won't do what you want, but please continue to waste your time if you desire. Me personally, I wouldn't care if they implemented this idea or not. I just don't see Valve, giving up the privacy of someone just because they cheated.(The argument that it's not really that much of private information doesn't matter. If a non cheater has a right to privacy, so should the cheater)