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Old 11-05-2009, 12:08 PM   #16
Eviltebor
 
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Originally Posted by GIRAFFE OF GOD View Post
True. But the Muslims were killing and robbing mostly Christian pilgrims on their way to the Holy Land. This is undeniable fact, according to the AP European History College board.
I agree with you for everything else, but must point out why salvation was promised. How else to motivate people to go?
The Muslims may have been robbing and killing pilgrims, but it was hardly the main reason of the Crusade, I just studied it for 2 months and it wasn't even mentioned.
As for salvation, it was not mentioned specifically in the at Piacenza (when the Byzantines asked the Pope to help them recruit Frankish mercenaries), or in the Papal Bull. It was hinted that participating would reduce time spent in purgatory. The hint just got blown out of proportion by Peter the Hermit etc, the men who spread the message of the Pope.
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:23 PM   #17
Chrissd21
 
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Originally Posted by Gontak View Post
Crusades were tools used by the popes to heal the great schism.And assert his power in europe. Much of the stuff written here is incorrect. The Muslims were very tolerant of other religions in Jerusalem. And somone else wrote that the Muslims had already been in power 300 years before the first crusade, this too is correct. The First crusade was called by Pope Urban II when he recieved a letter from the Byzantine Empire requesting western aid after the fall of the Seljuk Turks.

True for the most part, just a few parts off.

"The Muslims were very tolerant of other religions in Jerusalem"
Yes and no, Muslims, on the whole, were fairly peaceful people right up until Mohammad. At which point, the radical Muslims went on the warpath, killed off every other Muslim and all Christians and Jews. By the time of the Crusades, they'd chilled slightly, but not by much. Jerusalem was still fairly brutal.

Average knight was a knight because they were freaking rich. Who else could afford plate armor? Granted, there were quite a few "knight-errant's", and if you include them then yea, they were pretty broke. But, on the other hand, the Crusades would have been perfect for such a person. Raised to fight, now they have a fight which has a payout beyond belief. But still, you're right, the Crusades were more commoners.

I would also like to point out that Catholicism does not equal Christianity. It's like saying Islam is Judaism. Yes, they all share common people, but some refer to them as prophets (Islam), some refer to them as God incarnate (Catholicism and Christianity) and some flat out refuse to believe that some of the people existed (Judaism). Now, Catholics pray to a man in Rome, and also to Mary, the mother of God who the rest of the religions hold as mere mortal and not even deserving of prophet status.

It's a common fallacy to simply say they're a different branch of the same religion, but that only works if you say Islam is too. At which point then yes, you can play as the Moors but only as the Crusader branch.
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:28 PM   #18
Chrissd21
 
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Originally Posted by Eviltebor View Post
The Muslims may have been robbing and killing pilgrims, but it was hardly the main reason of the Crusade, I just studied it for 2 months and it wasn't even mentioned.
As for salvation, it was not mentioned specifically in the at Piacenza (when the Byzantines asked the Pope to help them recruit Frankish mercenaries), or in the Papal Bull. It was hinted that participating would reduce time spent in purgatory. The hint just got blown out of proportion by Peter the Hermit etc, the men who spread the message of the Pope.
Peter the Hermit failed pretty hard, the majority of the people he led to Jerusalem didn't make it out of Byzantine territory. None of them at all made it to Jerusalem.

It was more the money that pulled in the nobles and helped get everything rolling.
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:00 AM   #19
ShakaUVM
 
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Originally Posted by inferator View Post
so just a question
did the Romans and Persians who were fighting over jerusalem own it more then the Cilphate's Arabic Muslim army that took it from them some 300 years before the first crusade so you know it was a little late as far as justifications go.

(I cant believe I got caught up in this read books people!!)
I recommend you read books that disagree with your viewpoint.

The crusades are one of those unfortunate areas that has got caught up in the politically correct nonsense permeating our society.

The story of the crusades is but a small part of the thousand year struggle between Islam and Christianity for control of the Mediterranean and surrounding land. Muslims pushed into Spain and got within 200 miles of Paris on the western side (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours), and battered away at the Byzantines on the other side for hundreds of years until they fell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine-Arab_Wars), and then engaged in a centuries long struggle to push into Europe from the east, which included a campaign of kidnapping boys from the Baltic regions, and forcibly converting them to Islam and sending them against their parent countries in battle as Janissaries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dev%C5%9Firme).

Regardless of which side you sympathize with, the modern stance that the Crusades were all the evil Christians fault is just completely wrong. It was a very long struggle, over many generations, countries, and theatres of war.
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