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Old 07-15-2011, 08:05 PM   #1
furiousfred
 
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Which unofficial patch to use?

Which one is the most stable, also do saves between patches transfer over?(7.5 save -> 7.6 game does it work?)

I'm new to Vampires so I want a perfect experience on my first playthrough as I'm expecting a lot from what I've heard/seen about this game.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:02 AM   #2
Wesp5
 
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Originally Posted by furiousfred View Post
Which one is the most stable, also do saves between patches transfer over?(7.5 save -> 7.6 game does it work?)
Continuing an old saved game is always problematic, you should never do it. As for the latest patch, use 7.6a with the release date 15.7. in the readme, the original 7.6 from 13.7. had an issue with the installer...
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:03 AM   #3
Zenoseiya
 
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The True Patch (available at http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index....c,56857.0.html (Link is Not Safe For Work)) is a purist patch, meaning that it only makes bugfixes and tries to preserve an experience as close as possible to the original game. It is effectively complete (has fixed practically all possible bugs that can be fixed), so users will not need to download a new version in the near future. It was originally written by a nice guy named Acrimonius, but is now maintained by his friend Tessera, who isn't very nice. Supporters of the Unofficial Patch regularly accuse it of theft, but this is actually false, as explained here: http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index....ic,1162.0.html (Link is Not Safe For Work)

The Unofficial Patch comes in two types: Basic and Plus. The Basic version is mostly bugfixes, but also make quite a few changes that are not strictly bugfixes. The Plus version makes severe changes to the game, and while it claims to merely introduce content that had been cut by the developers, the majority of this content is simply fan-made modifications that were never intended by the original developers. Some releases of the Plus version have actually introduced new bugs that were not present in the original game. This patch regularly receives new releases, making it unreliable as a base for mods (most mods have chosen one release of the patch and stick with it).

If you want a comparison between the two, you can read one here: http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index....c,57580.0.html (Link is Not Safe For Work)

Last edited by Zenoseiya: 07-17-2011 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:42 AM   #4
Wesp5
 
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Our deal here was to never post untrue things about the other patch and you clearly violate it with your post!

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Originally Posted by Zenoseiya View Post
It is effectively complete (has fixed practically all possible bugs that can be fixed), so users will not need to download a new version in the near future.
Just compare the patch notes of the UP and the TP and you will find dozends of issues that the later one doesn't fix!

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The Basic version is mostly bugfixes, but also make quite a few changes that are not strictly bugfixes.
That is hardly true. The basic patch restores some unused content that has no impact on the gameplay though.

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The Plus version makes severe changes to the game, and while it claims to merely introduce content that had been cut by the developers, the majority of this content is simply fan-made modifications that were never intended by the original developers.
The plus patch makes no "severe" changes and all the restored content was created by Troika themselves, whether it was not used on purpose or because the game was released unfinished is not known. Interviews state that Troika felt the game was released premature though.

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Some releases of the Plus version have actually introduced new bugs that were not present in the original game.
I have to admit that this sometimes happens, but usually such bugs are fixed in the next version of the patch.

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This patch regularly receives new releases, making it unreliable as a base for mods (most mods have chosen one release of the patch and stick with it).
Mods that are not updated anymore are based on early versions of the UP, but "living" mods get updated regularily, because they want to offer all the latest fixes and improvements of the UP too. Also all known Bloodlines mods are based on the UP and none on the TP, so there must be a reason...

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If you want a comparison between the two, you can read one here: http://www.tessmage.com/forum/index....c,57580.0.html (Link is Not Safe For Work)
Most of the comments there are just speculations based on the UP readme, without the poster knowing what is meant.

As an example I will explain the Hellcat restoration, which is discussed on the last page of the above thread. The Hellcat is indeed a small digging machine outside the Ocean House hotel. Now while editing the level I noticed that there was another Hellcat model hidden which has been driven against the trailer. One model is called "bobcat_before", the other "bobcat_after" and there is also a hidden mover entity called "mover_sound_bobcat". I figured that there was a possession sequence planned in which the Hellcat attacks the trailer while you get the hotel key. This is consistent with all those other moving things the ghost uses against you and this is what I restored in the plus patch! Of course anyone could have seen this by just playing that one level first in basic and then in plus. Obviously the people in the thread above didn't even bother to do that...

Last edited by Wesp5: 07-17-2011 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Wesp5 View Post
Just compare the patch notes of the UP and the TP and you will find dozends of issues that the later one doesn't fix!
Are you referring to things like coffee cups that float three inches above the table? Tess explained that bugs like these weren't noticeable enough to need fixing.

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Originally Posted by Wesp5 View Post
That is hardly true. The basic patch restores some unused content that has no impact on the gameplay though.
As the notes for the "Unofficial Patch Stripped" explain, the Basic Patch has contained unnecessary changes in its releases.

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Originally Posted by Wesp5 View Post
The plus patch makes no "severe" changes and all the restored content was created by Troika themselves, whether it was not used on purpose or because the game was released unfinished is not known. Interviews state that Troika felt the game was released premature though.
Many of those changes were actually suggested by players on the PlanetVampire forums, such as Tremere domination, while others like the switching around of items are of your own design with no input from Troika. The Plus Patch alters the difficulty of the game by a significant margin by adding new items, new drops, and changing the weapons and stats of enemies.

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Originally Posted by Wesp5 View Post
As an example I will explain the Hellcat restoration, which is discussed on the last page of the above thread. The Hellcat is indeed a small digging machine outside the Ocean House hotel. Now while editing the level I noticed that there was another Hellcat model hidden which has been driven against the trailer. One model is called "bobcat_before", the other "bobcat_after" and there is also a hidden mover entity called "mover_sound_bobcat". I figured that there was a possession sequence planned in which the Hellcat attacks the trailer while you get the hotel key. This is consistent with all those other moving things the ghost uses against you and this is what I restored in the plus patch! Of course anyone could have seen this by just playing that one level first in basic and then in plus. Obviously the people in the thread above didn't even bother to do that...
I would dearly love to explain this to Tess, but he has banned me from his forum because I questioned his logic that homosexuality is a mental illness, even though it I helped him get in touch with DDLullu.

EDIT: In hindsight, I was being provocative on several occasions, so my ban was deserved.

Last edited by Zenoseiya: 07-21-2011 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 07-17-2011, 04:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Zenoseiya View Post
I would dearly love to explain this to Tess, but he has banned me from his forum because I questioned his logic that homosexuality is a mental illness, even though it I helped him get in touch with DDLullu.
So why on earth do you keep promote his opinion???

A person like him should not be taken seriously. Why? It's a waste of time...
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Old 07-17-2011, 04:11 PM   #7
Zenoseiya
 
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Originally Posted by maul_inc01 View Post
So why on earth do you keep promote his opinion???
Because I've used both patches, and I prefer the True Patch. Acromonius wrote most of it anyway, so lambasting it because of Tess is unfair.

Last edited by Zenoseiya: 07-17-2011 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:46 PM   #8
Tanukisan
 
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Personally, I'd go with the latest Wesp patch. I've been a fan of Wesp's patches for a long time and look forward to new ones that come out. I'm playing 7.6 right now and so far haven't had any problems (I'm just about to go to Downtown after solving all the initial Santa Monica quests).

I like the work that Wesp has done to restore content that never got finished (or was deleted). It's great to discover something new, even in a game I've played dozens of times from start to finish. On the rare occasions I've had a problem or question, I've had quick responses. And I've tried to give back by mentioning things from time to time that I haven't seen covered in past releases/notes.

Can't make any comment on the "true patch" other than I did try to run it once but couldn't get it to work for me. Probably my fault -- I play games but don't know how they work. (:
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:13 PM   #9
Wesp5
 
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Originally Posted by Zenoseiya View Post
Are you referring to things like coffee cups that float three inches above the table?
No, I'm referring to real bugs which the TP never really cared about once Acrimonius stopped working on it.

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As the notes for the "Unofficial Patch Stripped" explain, the Basic Patch has contained unnecessary changes in its releases.
As I explained those notes are mostly speculations, also the basic patch has gotten much more basic over the years. If there is something that doesn't belong to it in your opinion, post it here and I will think about it! Just recently a lot of the more obvious optical only restorations have been removed from the basic patch because it was requested.

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Many of those changes were actually suggested by players on the PlanetVampire forums, such as Tremere domination, while others like the switching around of items are of your own design with no input from Troika.
Tremere dialogue Domination was added because it makes no sense that they have combat Domination but not dialogue. As for object switching, this always had reasons. Just ask me about specific cases and I will explain them.

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The Plus Patch alters the difficulty of the game by a significant margin by adding new items, new drops, and changing the weapons and stats of enemies.
All these changes are much less important than the TP users make you believe and they don't overall change the difficulty of the game, compared to e.g. what different builds can do. Again if you have specific complains, we can always talk about them here. I'll be the first to admit that my readme is rather cryptic !

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I would dearly love to explain this to Tess, but he has banned me from his forum because I questioned his logic that homosexuality is a mental illness, even though it I helped him get in touch with DDLullu.
Wow, I wonder how he will react to a new mod that plans to improve the game for gay and lesbian players...

Last edited by Wesp5: 07-18-2011 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:31 PM   #10
cowking
 
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Originally Posted by Wesp5 View Post
Just compare the patch notes of the UP and the TP and you will find dozends of issues that the later one doesn't fix!
Are you referring to things that were broken by the previous version of UP, or things like blood buff giving four (GASP!) points instead of two, like it was MEANT to be?

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Originally Posted by Wesp5 View Post
That is hardly true. The basic patch restores some unused content that has no impact on the gameplay though.
If you didn't flat out lie with your statements, I might take your opinion seriously.

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Originally Posted by Wesp5 View Post
Mods that are not updated anymore are based on early versions of the UP, but "living" mods get updated regularily, because they want to offer all the latest fixes and improvements of the UP too. Also all known Bloodlines mods are based on the UP and none on the TP, so there must be a reason...
Yeah, maybe it's because UP was first?

Maybe it's because UP has more promotion, due to having a new release every month, due to up sht in the previous release?

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Originally Posted by Wesp5 View Post
Most of the comments there are just speculations based on the UP readme, without the poster knowing what is meant.
I have played both UP and TPG, and I can honestly say TPG is way superior. I was horrified to see how much sht UP actually changed in the basic patch.

And no, I'm no Tess Hammer Legion Member, I just got banned there recently. I honestly think Tess has some kind of obsessive personality disorder, and needs to a see shrink.

Doesn't have anything to do with the actual patch though.

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Originally Posted by Zenoseiya View Post
Because I've used both patches, and I prefer the True Patch. Acromonius wrote most of it anyway, so lambasting it because of Tess is unfair.
+1

For OP, definitely go with TPG, you will get a much more TRUE first time playing experience (with all the ACTUAL bugs fixed), and no changed content (unlike UP's basic version).

Besides, TPG has fixed the only bug I could find in the latest hotfix (remember to download it).

For a first time player, TPG wins, hands down. It's also way more STABLE, UP has some kind of new weird bugs with every release, it's why there's a new version every month. You don't want to start playing, only to find out the current UP version you're playing has some kind of game breaking bug that will ruin your game unless you start to mess around with the console (not something I'd like to see in my first playthrough).

If you're playing for the second+ time, it's down to personal preference. I'd use the patch I didn't use previously.

Last edited by cowking: 07-18-2011 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:19 PM   #11
Wesp5
 
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Originally Posted by cowking View Post
Are you referring to things that were broken by the previous version of UP, or things like blood buff giving four (GASP!) points instead of two, like it was MEANT to be?
Yeah, I was talking about real bugs that weren't caused by the UP. There were literally hundreds of them after the TP stopped development, only now and again the TP get's a hotfix because they analyse the UP and notice an issue they want to fix too. That can be seen on their forum itself! As for the Blood Buff, it's like in the original game in the basic patch which makes it very much overpowered and thus the game quite easy. Only in the plus version it has been changed to the harder version like it is in the PnP game on which Bloodlines is based!

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If you didn't flat out lie with your statements, I might take your opinion seriously.
Why don't you guys once come up with real issues that I could possible remove from the basic patch?

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Yeah, maybe it's because UP was first?
By the time the mod scene really took off, thanks to Dheu, both the UP and the TP were already old.

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Maybe it's because UP has more promotion, due to having a new release every month...
Yeah, which as the other TP fan wrote would actually made it harder for modders to stay up-to-date, wouldn't it?

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I have played both UP and TPG, and I can honestly say TPG is way superior. I was horrified to see how much sht UP actually changed in the basic patch.
So what was the last UP version you actually played?

Quote:
UP has some kind of new weird bugs with every release, it's why there's a new version every month.
The UP is very stable unless it tries something really new, like the updated Python version in 7.6 which was requested to make modding easier. And even that has been hot-fixed on the first day of the release. On the other hand there should be several game breaking bugs still in the TP like the Beckett "Wait!" issue.
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:48 AM   #12
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yeah the wesp patches ruin the game and make it terrible easy. use the true patch - youll thank us on your 2nd time through. even having played this game almost continually since 2004 i dont get bored of the standard layout. youre robbing yourself by making it easier with "godmode" unoffical patch.

if you do use the UP make sure you dont use the plus version, it rapes the game into a whimpering child so you just hold w + m1 till the end.
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:12 AM   #13
Wesp5
 
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Originally Posted by Nummersechs View Post
yeah the wesp patches ruin the game and make it terrible easy.
Yeah, and now please put some facts behind this claim and tell us exactly how it does this!

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if you do use the UP make sure you dont use the plus version, it rapes the game into a whimpering child so you just hold w + m1 till the end.
Strange! Your buddy above complained that the plus patch Blood Buff was much less powerful, so can't you even get your reproaches consistent ?
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:25 AM   #14
Zenoseiya
 
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It seems I didn't specify correctly. Most of the True Patch 5.04AT was written by Acromonius, who retired in 2008. But the True Patch Gold, the current version, is almost ten times bigger and so 90% of it was written by Tess.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:25 AM   #15
Wesp5
 
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Originally Posted by Zenoseiya View Post
Most of the True Patch 5.04AT was written by Acromonius, who retired in 2008. But the True Patch Gold, the current version, is almost ten times bigger and so 90% of it was written by Tess.
The actual patch content of the TPG hasn't changed much at all, the huge size change is due to included non-Troika texture and sound "mods" of Tess. Therefore the TPG is now double in size compared to the UP!

Last edited by Wesp5: 07-19-2011 at 12:32 PM.
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