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Old 02-02-2012, 07:13 PM   #46
Xuralisk
 
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Originally Posted by Nirruden View Post
Also, this. It's frightening how much damage you can pump out with the scattergun when your team is not a pack of disorganized ninnies.
Mm. More so when the class also has a way to hold someone in place to punish bad positioning. With the Scout, there are many times where you need to kill someone there and then, without them getting the chance to retreat. The Pyro may not be as fierce, but at least he can take away the freedom of movement.
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Originally Posted by thejimz View Post
Did you actually read Xuralisk's post? I was more-or-less summarizing its contents. Ever since he popped into this thread, he's been on an uppity, know-it-all tangent. I'm allowed to be irritated.
I am sorry you are upset.

Last edited by Xuralisk: 02-02-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:15 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by chzchan View Post
Wait, you've mastered Pyro?
Mastered? no TMP can keep that title, but I've gotten the class to the point where I can play it in HL, atleast upper steel teams, though a wee bit of whiles back I did it in platinum, and I feel as if it's around 50/50 as too whether I can play pyro in platinum, my DM is easily there but I'm more use too soldier or demo, so being a close ranged "brawler" is a bit of a paradigm shift . My biggest thing is I play more aggressive then defensive.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:45 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Xuralisk
I'm being condescending.

That means I'm speaking down to you.

Do you understand?
All that I'm reading
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:59 PM   #49
TMP
 
 
 
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...

Too tired to bother atm, I'll comment later when my head isn't exploded.

But I don't know if I should even bother. Half the people will idolize what I say and the other half will instantly discredit it.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:04 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by TMP View Post
...

Too tired to bother atm, I'll comment later when my head isn't exploded.

But I don't know if I should even bother. Half the people will idolize what I say and the other half will instantly discredit it.
That is the best write up I've ever heard, bar none.

Now get out of here you terrible horrible player.

I AM TwoFace
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:04 PM   #51
PolyCement
 
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right now, this thread is FULL of pyros being offensive
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:08 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by TMP View Post
...

Too tired to bother atm, I'll comment later when my head isn't exploded.

But I don't know if I should even bother. Half the people will idolize what I say and the other half will instantly discredit it.
Are you going to say that Pyro is better on Offense than it is on Defense?

If so, then I will discredit it.

Otherwise, I'll take what you say and think about it.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:31 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by wazdakka View Post
We all know pyro is a great defensive class but can i get tips on how to play her offensivly?
Show some respect.... The Pyro is an IT not him or her.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:34 PM   #54
4812622
 
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Originally Posted by PolyCement View Post
right now, this thread is FULL of pyros being offensive
i c wut u did thar
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:36 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by TMP View Post
...

Too tired to bother atm, I'll comment later when my head isn't exploded.

But I don't know if I should even bother. Half the people will idolize what I say and the other half will instantly discredit it.
I'm laughing my off, so hats off to you. Which of the two categories does that count as?
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:48 PM   #56
TMP
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by KajiVena View Post
Are you going to say that Pyro is better on Offense than it is on Defense?

If so, then I will discredit it.

Otherwise, I'll take what you say and think about it.
I'll say three things about this before my eyes slam shut.

I think you can create outcomes that are relatively homomorphic to defensive outcomes and goals, mostly in that you can accomplish similar goals on the front line that you can on the back.

I am positive you have more opportunities playing an offensive style than a defensive style, though it comes at a cost of being much more strenuous and punishing on mistakes.

I prefer priming the offensive style.

Take what you will from that. The second makes more sense than appears if you begin to think about the concept of transitioning. It's a lot easier to retreat as a pyro than it is to advance as one, after all.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:02 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by TMP View Post
I'll say three things about this before my eyes slam shut.

I think you can create outcomes that are relatively homomorphic to defensive outcomes and goals, mostly in that you can accomplish similar goals on the front line that you can on the back.

I am positive you have more opportunities playing an offensive style than a defensive style, though it comes at a cost of being much more strenuous and punishing on mistakes.

I prefer priming the offensive style.

Take what you will from that. The second makes more sense than appears if you begin to think about the concept of transitioning. It's a lot easier to retreat as a pyro than it is to advance as one, after all.
I'd have to disagree that playing offensively opens more opportunities, though I'll agree that playing Pyro on Offense is too strenuous and punishing (especially for a class designated as Offense...).

In my opinion, it reminds me of playing non-Gunslinger Engineer and being useful on the offense. You can do it, but at the same time, it just won't be as easy as going Soldier. You're just not geared for it, though you can use what you are given to do it.

Get some sleep, yo, and please, don't use such fancy wording. It makes it harder for people to understand what you are talking about (I struggled for a bit to understand it...).
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:18 PM   #58
TMP
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by KajiVena View Post
I'd have to disagree that playing offensively opens more opportunities, though I'll agree that playing Pyro on Offense is too strenuous and punishing (especially for a class designated as Offense...).

In my opinion, it reminds me of playing non-Gunslinger Engineer and being useful on the offense. You can do it, but at the same time, it just won't be as easy as going Soldier. You're just not geared for it, though you can use what you are given to do it.

Get some sleep, yo, and please, don't use such fancy wording. It makes it harder for people to understand what you are talking about (I struggled for a bit to understand it...).
Sorry, I'm a math major. I can't help but sneak words in like homomorphic.

EDIT: And I can't pass out so I'll put my idea on the table here.

And I'll do it by answering the OP's question. Tips on playing aggressively.

To play aggressively as pyro is to actively seek and force situations (IE Killing your opponents). To play defensively is to prevent your opponent from creating advantageous situations (IE Reflecting rockets from a sentry gun or spychecking).

I'll start by saying this. Playing purely offensive pyro can be just as bad (or others would call it worse) than playing purely defensive pyro. Either way both are bad. Actively just attempting kill after kill CAN work (And if it does that's probably the way to go!), just as sitting back and doing no damage but preventing some can be just as bad (Though if it works then that's a way to go!).

The idea behind playing an offensive pyro is to get an enemy into a tipping point where your aggression overwhelms him and he just dies. Those who understand pyro v pyro know how this can happen pretty well. Get an adequate advantage and then you can roll over your enemy. So the core idea is creating this advantage and understanding the tipping points of an aggressive style (which can be loadout dependent).

How do you do this? You poke. You flank. You patrol. You W+M1. It's all stylistic and situation dependent. If you encounter a scout around a corner, the aggressive way to take him out is to reach that tipping point to kill a scout close range and just kill him. If you encounter a heavy while being aggressive, you try to get him into a tipping point where you know you can kill him in by utilizing your advantages over him.

The beauty of this style is that the actions you can do in it can have immediate pressure effects and lead your opponents into doing certain things. Moving to get around you. Hunting you down. Forcing a soldier to fire rockets at you for his life! All of these are really REALLY applicable instances of pressure that you apply to your enemies by simply doing that: You're not simply confined to preventing action, you're actively causing enemy action. And you can even do this in a defensive stance, if you're simply pressuring them enough offensively to make them threatened.

The problems with the style come down to the fact that the tipping point is not exactly known. There's no set tipping point really for all situations to just run in there. It requires a lot more knowledge on what you can do. A person with good flamethrower understanding, very impressive flare aim, and higher retreat ability can poke heavies for longer and reach a tipping point easier, or potentially have a higher hp value on a target for their tipping point into aggression. There's also the fact that sometimes you can't physically reach that tipping point well, so to maintain aggression and get payoff, you have to die. This is common in suiciding for the medic. Also, if you have a default tipping point value, but you underperform (IE miss more often than you normally do), you're probably going to lose the clash.

Despite this, there are some major benefits to offensive oriented play. As a pyro, it's way way WAY easier for you to retreat than it is for you to advance on someone, so by playing aggressively, you gain the ability to punish overextending way harder than someone who is playing passively, while being able to potentially escape from more of your overextending yourself. The only class I can even say that it would be harder to retreat from than to aggress would be scout, and even then, the scout runs a major risk by aggressing a retreating pyro - simply because the pyro can just kill an overextended scout in a stupidly low amount of time. Since you're playing more into your opponent's front line as an offensive pyro then as a defensive pyro, you have more map to work with and more to transition into easily. An offensive pyro can relatively easily translate to a defensive pyro if the situation warrants it.

If you're going to try offensive pyroing, just go out and try it. Don't be afraid to die a lot, and try to learn some of those tipping points for situations. You can abuse so much more if you know more stuff, and the transitions from offense to defense are very easy to pull off, and if you can get down transitioning from offense to defense then people will really understand how powerful you are.

The most important thing to realize though is that sometimes you just can't play offensive pyro and get done effectively, and that's fine.

I don't think I did a good job explaining some things like the concept of doing defensive-oriented offensive pressure plays but I literally can't explain more because my eyes are shutting down.

Last edited by TMP: 02-02-2012 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:29 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by TMP View Post
Sorry, I'm a math major. I can't help but sneak words in like homomorphic.
Just be careful with what you say, and try to state it in laymans terms..

Transitioning is also the process of changing ones gender and homomorphic... well, let's just say it does not sound right when you consider the other definition of transitioning.

Dumb it down a bit?
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:24 AM   #60
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offensive backburner pyro on steel definitely exists and it's bloody fun
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