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Old 02-12-2012, 07:03 PM   #76
AntiFritz
 
 
 
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I can appreciate what wesp does an continues todo, but personally i prefer the true patch. I'm not a fan of modding games more than bugfixes/graphics upgrades etc and i didn't like some of the changes in the basic wesp patch. I would say play true first, then plus wesp patch to play the additions.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:50 AM   #77
Wesp5
 
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Originally Posted by AntiFritz View Post
I'm not a fan of modding games more than bugfixes/graphics upgrades etc and i didn't like some of the changes in the basic wesp patch.
Care to explain what you didn't like in the basic UP? Because I'm right now into a big make-the-basic-patch-more-basic session for the UP 8.0 and there may be things I still overlook .
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:59 PM   #78
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I don't like the True Patch because it operates under the false assumption that the game needed only bug fixes, when in reality it was also unfinished. That's why I have no problems with Wesp taking liberties to make changes. These are changes Troika probably would have made themselves if they had time.

It's like if you ordered a BLT and it didn't come with bacon on it, but you decided you don't want to add the bacon to it because that wasn't how it was served. It's rather irrelevant that it was served this way, because it was served this way in error in the first place.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:30 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by CaptainDingo View Post
I don't like the True Patch because it operates under the false assumption that the game needed only bug fixes, when in reality it was also unfinished. That's why I have no problems with Wesp taking liberties to make changes. These are changes Troika probably would have made themselves if they had time.

It's like if you ordered a BLT and it didn't come with bacon on it, but you decided you don't want to add the bacon to it because that wasn't how it was served. It's rather irrelevant that it was served this way, because it was served this way in error in the first place.
There is a problem however with confusing deleted material with game content scrapped for time. Also, risks abound deciding to take unused or deleted content with no reference as to how it was to be used, and inserting it where you think seems right, such as props.

I won't get into the sillier aspects, but sometimes, thing are removed for a reason, and almost all games have garbage data left over.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:32 AM   #80
Wesp5
 
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These are changes Troika probably would have made themselves if they had time.
I'd like to cite Troika CEO and Art Director Leonard Boyarsky from an interview on RPG Codex from 30.06.2004:

RC: What features would you have like to have included in Bloodlines, if money, time and manpower wasn't an issue?

Leonard Boyarsky: I think that if you asked any developer that question, they'd say they'd like to implement every last detail that they originally envisioned for the game, but was just not feasible due to money/time constraints.

Last edited by Wesp5: 03-01-2012 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:35 PM   #81
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I'd like to cite Troika CEO and Art Director Leonard Boyarsky from an interview on RPG Codex from 30.06.2004:

RC: What features would you have like to have included in Bloodlines, if money, time and manpower wasn't an issue?

Leonard Boyarsky: I think that if you asked any developer that question, they'd say they'd like to implement every last detail that they originally envisioned for the game, but was just not feasible due to money/time constraints.
You keep taking that quote out of context. You're assuming that all the deleted data left over was indeed ditched due to time or other reasons. However, a large portion of it was deleted on PURPOSE. They were ultimately NEVER meant to be in the game. Do you really not understand this? The quote has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DELETED/REMOVED FRAGMENTS.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:10 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Prisoner416 View Post
You keep taking that quote out of context. You're assuming that all the deleted data left over was indeed ditched due to time or other reasons. However, a large portion of it was deleted on PURPOSE. They were ultimately NEVER meant to be in the game. Do you really not understand this? The quote has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DELETED/REMOVED FRAGMENTS.


Are you one of the original devs?

If not, let it drop dammit!!!
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:22 PM   #83
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Are you one of the original devs?

If not, let it drop dammit!!!
I'm not the one that keeps bringing it up.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:53 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by CaptainDingo View Post
I don't like the True Patch because it operates under the false assumption that the game needed only bug fixes, when in reality it was also unfinished.
Agreed, the game is largely unfinished in the later acts, but to claim that just patching the existing game as a false assumption is inaccurate (we dont know what Troika wanted to do).

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That's why I have no problems with Wesp taking liberties to make changes.
I have no issue with him making changes to the game, but putting them into a patch I do. A patch is a patch and a mod is a mod.

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These are changes Troika probably would have made themselves if they had time.
Now that, is a false assumption, we have no reliable information from the now defunct Troika or the former dev team.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:50 AM   #85
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I have no issue with him making changes to the game, but putting them into a patch I do. A patch is a patch and a mod is a mod.
When Dan Upright started the Unofficial Patch he restored the single most gameplay changing item, the sniper rifle, already in his first versions, so I just continued in his spirit unaware of the whole patch vs mod issue. Nowadays there is the basic patch for everyone not wanting to see restorations and in the upcoming 8.0 version almost all of even the non-gameplay affecting scenery will be gone in that too ! BTW, is the restored sniper rifle still included in the TPG?

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Now that, is a false assumption, we have no reliable information from the now defunct Troika or the former dev team.
Read the quote again. It looks to me as if Boyarksy would have liked "to implement every last detail that they originally envisioned".

Last edited by Wesp5: 03-02-2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:52 AM   #86
Wesp5
 
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However, a large portion of it was deleted on PURPOSE. They were ultimately NEVER meant to be in the game. Do you really not understand this?
This could well be true, if we all didn't know that Bloodlines was released unfinished. Boyarsky and others stated that several times and the quote above was also meant to prove this.

Last edited by Wesp5: 03-02-2012 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:25 PM   #87
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Interesting topic....lol
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:39 PM   #88
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I have owned the game since release and I've finished it trice up to now, one time with the official 1.2 patch, one time with a really old version of the UP and once with an old version of the UP+ patch.

Personally I liked the UP+ patch best, although it seemed to make the game a bit easier at times. On the other hand that could just have been me playing the game for a third time and knowing what I was doing...
I definitely recommend using either the UP (non-plus) or the TP (which I have no personal experience with) for a first playthrough, since the official one is rather lacking. The only change that was really noticeable from the release version was that you could actually finish the game without using console commands (I'm reffering to the 1.2 patch here, not UP).
For a second playthrough I'd definitely go with the plus patch, the bobcat thing and the malkavian whispers are awesome. They are imo perfect examples for content that should and probably would have been in the original game if Troika would have had time to finish it.


On a side note, as the thread has already been hijacked once, I don't feel particularly bad to do the same :

Wesp, are there any major changes coming up for your patch? I'm planning on finally doing a playthrough as nos and have been waiting for an opportune moment, the sale today has just given me one and I'd hate to miss out on new stuff if I would just have needed to wait for a bit.

Last edited by salzcraker: 03-02-2012 at 01:41 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:53 PM   #89
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Ah, so I shouldn't go with the plus version until I beat the game once?
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:48 PM   #90
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Ah, so I shouldn't go with the plus version until I beat the game once?
Once or twice, then by all means, feel free to try it out.

There are some neat additions in the plus mod, such as more poster quests.

I have nothing against it. I just think people should try it pure first.

For the record, I started out with Wesp's Basic Patch.
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