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Old 02-20-2012, 04:21 AM   #76
kakkerlak
 
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before VAC there was noting like it , so those of us who grow up with it still appreciate valve took notice and developed it as a free extra.
I dont see it working worse than before and if it does it too early to call.
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:51 AM   #77
Tito Shivan
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by tbroky View Post
I understand VAC is not meant to ban them instantly nor stop them from cheating, as it only stop them from connecting.

But it only stop them from connecting by registering their use of known hacks..... which currently it is not doing.

I don't expect VAC to ban them straight away, I understand their delayed ban idea and I agree with it, however right now VAC wont delay ban cheater either.

sorry for the confusion
VAC working by detecting known cheats is tied to VAC bans being irreversible.
Think of it as what it happens with AV industry.
cleaning well known viruses works fine. But the moment you start deleting 'possible viruses' due to heuristic analysis, sooner or later you'll end up having false positives.
(Partly because the virus business, like the cheats one, works towards making their product work seamless with the enviroment)
The moment you put false positives into the equation, you need the ability to rollback a ban. And place more workload into investingating what produced the false positive, to avoid more in the future.

But again, the problem here is most people keep looking at the finger, instead of looking where is pointing. I'm amazed how the community hasn't sieged Activision's HQ with torches and pitchforks asking for the responsible's head.

Or at least an official statement about what is happening and what steps are they taking to solve it
(Besides making people spend 60$ in MW4)
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:56 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Tito Shivan View Post
VAC working by detecting known cheats is tied to VAC bans being irreversible.
Think of it as what it happens with AV industry.
cleaning well known viruses works fine. But the moment you start deleting 'possible viruses' due to heuristic analysis, sooner or later you'll end up having false positives.
(Partly because the virus business, like the cheats one, works towards making their product work seamless with the enviroment)
The moment you put false positives into the equation, you need the ability to rollback a ban. And place more workload into investingating what produced the false positive, to avoid more in the future.

But again, the problem here is most people keep looking at the finger, instead of looking where is pointing. I'm amazed how the community hasn't sieged Activision's HQ with torches and pitchforks asking for the responsible's head.

Or at least an official statement about what is happening and what steps are they taking to solve it
(Besides making people spend 60$ in MW4)
I completely understand what VAC does and why.

The problem is so do the people who make the cheats. They understand that if they give each cheat a different signature than they wont be on the list. This is why it is outdated.

Yes Activision is to blame, but so is party Steam by allowing Activision to use VAC as it's only defense.
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:59 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by kakkerlak View Post
before VAC there was noting like it , so those of us who grow up with it still appreciate valve took notice and developed it as a free extra.
I dont see it working worse than before and if it does it too early to call.
I grew up with VAC too.

As I sated before when playing CS. You would notice the bans coming in waves. When hacking was ripe you would only need to wait a couple of weeks before people were VAC banned and not allowed on servers. Then there would be cheat free gaming for a month or two, and the process would repeat.

Today there are no waves, hacks are so customised and individual that any hack that is listed effects so little of the cheating community.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:01 AM   #80
kakkerlak
 
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fixed
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbroky View Post
Yes Activision is to blame, but so are the people buying the game
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Originally Posted by tbroky View Post
snip
sv_pure 1 or 2

Last edited by kakkerlak: 02-20-2012 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:22 PM   #81
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Wow blaming the customer but not blaming the very company that can make direct decisions on how VAC should be implemented.

Fan Boi much?

I understand that all 3 parties are to blame, but the greater blame lies with activision, steam.

Both reputation have been ruined by this.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:18 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by tbroky View Post
Wow blaming the customer but not blaming the very company that can make direct decisions on how VAC should be implemented.

Fan Boi much?

I understand that all 3 parties are to blame, but the greater blame lies with activision, steam.

Both reputation have been ruined by this.
I'm pretty sure it's Activision's job to keep VAC updated for their games
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:01 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Ericson666 View Post
I'm pretty sure it's Activision's job to keep VAC updated for their games
Sources? I assumed that Valve were in charge of Valve Anti-Cheat, and thus had to keep it updated, not the game's developers.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:03 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Ericson666 View Post
I'm pretty sure it's Activision's job to keep VAC updated for their games
VAC is a tool given to companies using the steam platform. Activision/IWNET would have the correct version and they would understand how to use it. After all we are talking about a multi-million if not billion dollar company. Activision/IWNET can only work with the tools they are given and that is VAC. To question IWNET ability to use a tool like VAC is ridiculous considering they implement game development tools within their life-cycle that would make VAC look like childs-play.

The reality is VAC is in-adequate to fight against private hacks and everyone knows this.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:03 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by tbroky View Post
Wow blaming the customer but not blaming the very company that can make direct decisions on how VAC should be implemented.
just using your own cheap tacktics.

take more care what you buy with your caretakers money and there is no need for threads like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misguided View Post
The reality is VAC is in-adequate to fight against private hacks and everyone knows this.
now if you say it like that other people with not argue.
see how easy it is??

I totally agree with that.

Last edited by kakkerlak: 02-21-2012 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:57 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by kakkerlak View Post
just using your own cheap tacktics.

take more care what you buy with your caretakers money and there is no need for threads like this.

now if you say it like that other people with not argue.
see how easy it is??

I totally agree with that.
Sorry Kakkerlak you are the only one who decided to attack other people on things other than VAC and Steam

This can be shown with this
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakkerlak View Post
take more care what you buy with your caretakers money and there is no need for threads like this.
At least you agree that VAC is not doing it's job. When VAC fails to get a certain type of cheat, what do you think is going to happen to the popularity of those cheats?
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:15 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by tbroky View Post
At least you agree that VAC is not doing it's job. When VAC fails to get a certain type of cheat, what do you think is going to happen to the popularity of those cheats?
VAC not being able to stop private cheats means it is not doing its job?

just more proof you are too ignorent on the subject or you just a lame troll.
+1 ignore list
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:45 AM   #88
Misguided
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by kakkerlak View Post
just using your own cheap tacktics.

take more care what you buy with your caretakers money and there is no need for threads like this.

now if you say it like that other people with not argue.
see how easy it is??

I totally agree with that.
So you agree that VAC is incapable of banning the majority of cheats?
What is VACs great accomplishment if it can only ban public cheats?
What does VAC do that is so great that other anti-cheat tools don't do?
Why is it regarded so highly among this community?

You believe VAC should only ever be implemented with server admins and yes I agree with you, but this assertion only implies that VAC is next to worthless. Afterall VAC's job is to ban cheaters after a prolonged time and this isn't happening in MW3 and most likely isn't happening in games with server admins, instead the server admins are masking VAC's effectiveness. Which is highly transparent in MW3.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:04 AM   #89
kakkerlak
 
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Originally Posted by Misguided View Post
So you agree that VAC is incapable of banning the majority of cheats?
What is VACs great accomplishment if it can only ban public cheats?
What does VAC do that is so great that other anti-cheat tools don't do?
Why is it regarded so highly among this community?

You believe VAC should only ever be implemented with server admins and yes I agree with you, but this assertion only implies that VAC is next to worthless. Afterall VAC's job is to ban cheaters after a prolonged time and this isn't happening in MW3 and most likely isn't happening in games with server admins, instead the server admins are masking VAC's effectiveness. Which is highly transparent in MW3.
majority , can you provide me with numbers?
I did not read passsed that , stop making thing up it makes you sound misguided.
no I do not agree on majority.

and please stop making assumpions on what I believe.

edit: no numbers?

you really have a wire problem in the head.
Quote:
What is VACs great accomplishment if it can only ban public cheats?
What does VAC do that is so great that other anti-cheat tools don't do?
Why is it regarded so highly among this community?
you refuse to understand what people post and is in the official FAQ.

you make random statments about VAC and the community that have no merrit at all.
if you are just a troll just man up and say so.

Last edited by kakkerlak: 02-21-2012 at 04:24 AM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:56 AM   #90
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Please link to this official FAQ

Fine you do not agree with my assertion that vac does not catch the majority of cheats. By deduction this means you believe it does. SinceVAC does not realese any official stats it is impossible to prove otherwise. However from my own experiences within in mw3 and I know that most of the cheaters use private cheat and only one person I have asked used public cheat. He of course was banned. Here you keep saying that vac is working as intended but ignore the fact that when VAC is isolated, such as the case in MW3 it is very ineffective. What is the point of an anti cheat tool if it is not catching and banning cheaters? Again you will come in here and subscribe to the theory that vac only works with dedicated servers, but this is not the point. VAC works the same way as it does in dedicated servers as it does in p2p lobbies. You keep attributing admins bans to VAC success which is illogical. Sure you can argue that VAC should never be implemented without the use of community self regulation (server admins), but this only asserts VAC true worth.

I will discuss the VAC FAQ until you post a link so I know we are talking about the same source.

Last edited by Misguided: 02-21-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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