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Old 01-17-2012, 09:50 AM   #46
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Was looking around this forums since it's on sale. Then this thread...

slowly it will all reveal themselves...

remember limbo of the lost? Started only with oblivion, then went to unreal, to diablo, etc.
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:59 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ET3D View Post
They'd make great research papers. These are, after all, created by building on references and adding your own opinion and analysis.

I think only copyright lawyers can tell if this is legal, but this kind of thing is certainly acceptable to most people most of the time. When you see a scene in a movie which reminds you of another favourite movie you think "hey, I see what you did there", you don't think "did they get the other filmmaker's permission for that?"

How far can this be taken? I don't know (a copyright lawyer might know). But my guess is this was meant as a homage, not as a ripoff.
Except it'll be a research paper without proper referencing.

Yeah, there's a difficult line between 'copying' and 'taking ideas from' something, but how difficult is it really to not skirt the line to begin with and ask for permission beforehand?
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:17 PM   #48
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How far can this be taken? I don't know (a copyright lawyer might know). But my guess is this was meant as a homage, not as a ripoff.
That conclusion makes little sense, given the material presented & the lacking credit?
You create an homage because you love the original and want to bring more attention to it. Not the case here.
This is more like how the entire intro video & concept art of Borderlands is identical to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmeP1YkaeTo
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:23 AM   #49
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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tNHk00OaHn...s400/Theft.gif

I feel bad for buying this game now...
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:20 PM   #50
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Stolen?
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:40 PM   #51
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Hm, so on the one hand, it does look like that bit of work definitely wasn't original, it does look like Sam Tastey's work was "stolen".

But as Sam titled that blog entry:
Quote:
"Good artists borrow, great artists steal"
he follows it up by saying
Quote:
Even if Picasso or T.S. Eliot really said that, I'm pretty sure that this is not what he meant:
That's where I disagree... I mean what did you think that meant? Yeah, it's a metaphor, but only partly.

Honestly, I think the problem here is we need to start adjusting to the rapidly changing dynamics of copyright and intellectual property. I mean just conceptually, we need to redefine "ownership" when it comes to digital media. By putting something on the web, you are making it public, you are in no uncertain terms publishing it to the world. So can you really be offended when that work shows up somewhere?

Last edited by cocodapuf: 07-16-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:46 AM   #52
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If other people make money selling what you made, yes, you can be 'offended', and most certainly it's best to sue them for every cent they made from it and more.
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Old 08-26-2012, 07:33 AM   #53
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It is really interesting how some people are upset by this "huge and serious theft". And they still use, e.g., Windows or Mac on daily basis and don't find supporting the companies behind the both OSes "morally" or "ethically" problematic?! Give me a break. Did any of those concerned gamers actually ask devs of the game about the issue? Judging by assuming something without listening to what the other side has to say is also wrong, you know...
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:33 AM   #54
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It is really interesting how some people are upset by this "huge and serious theft". And they still use, e.g., Windows or Mac on daily basis and don't find supporting the companies behind the both OSes "morally" or "ethically" problematic?! Give me a break. Did any of those concerned gamers actually ask devs of the game about the issue? Judging by assuming something without listening to what the other side has to say is also wrong, you know...
Are you saying that people who complain about this issue are too quick to judge the game's developers, for they could have been left with no choice but to copy art without sending an email of request to the original artists, or crediting them anywhere? Can you describe a scenario where that would be the case?

I don't understand your Windows/Mac user analogy - how is that related to refusing to support plagiarism?
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:11 AM   #55
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Are you saying that people who complain about this issue are too quick to judge the game's developers, for they could have been left with no choice but to copy art without sending an email of request to the original artists, or crediting them anywhere? Can you describe a scenario where that would be the case?
Exactly. If you want to make an informed judgement, you'll have to listen to the both sides, not only one. Deduction from "original artists'" claims in this case isn't enough.

Quote:
I don't understand your Windows/Mac user analogy - how is that related to refusing to support plagiarism?
Both companies have a long history of stealing concepts, solutions etc. one from another (and from some third parties also), but still nobody really cares about that nor tries to raise any moral or ethical question in that regard. If you know that Windows contains stolen stuff from Mac, and vice versa, but you still buy it, do you support "piracy", "plagiarism", "unethical behaviour", "put-a-term-here"?
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:06 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechratos View Post
It is really interesting how some people are upset by this "huge and serious theft". And they still use, e.g., Windows or Mac on daily basis and don't find supporting the companies behind the both OSes "morally" or "ethically" problematic?! Give me a break. Did any of those concerned gamers actually ask devs of the game about the issue? Judging by assuming something without listening to what the other side has to say is also wrong, you know...
  1. I think when it first became a controversy they just skirted and avoided discussing the issue, which imo would speak for itself
  2. good luck getting any support for this game, let alone a comment regarding this controversial topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechratos View Post
Both companies have a long history of stealing concepts, solutions etc. one from another (and from some third parties also), but still nobody really cares about that nor tries to raise any moral or ethical question in that regard. If you know that Windows contains stolen stuff from Mac, and vice versa, but you still buy it, do you support "piracy", "plagiarism", "unethical behaviour", "put-a-term-here"?
It's not that people don't care about it, but what choice do they have practically speaking? Yea Linux is cool and all but there are certain limitations such as a lot of software companies (games or otherwise) not developing for it, and many people aren't technically proficient enough to be comfortable with it.

Personally I am no fan of, and am even anti-supportive of companies like Microsoft, Apple, Sony, etc and want them to have the least of my money as possible, but honestly there is not always a good enough alternative. This is precisely why (sorry to say) your argument is mitigated to a large degree. It's either bite the bullet or don't have certain things.

Last edited by Shad0WeN: 08-26-2012 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:26 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Mechratos View Post
Exactly. If you want to make an informed judgement, you'll have to listen to the both sides, not only one. Deduction from "original artists'" claims in this case isn't enough.
Well, we'd love to listen to their points, but there been no response from the developers anywhere on the internet. Why should anyone have to contact them for clarity? If they want money from the consumers, they should contact us.
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:56 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Shad0WeN View Post
It's not that people don't care about it, but what choice do they have practically speaking? Yea Linux is cool and all but there are certain limitations such as a lot of software companies (games or otherwise) not developing for it, and many people aren't technically proficient enough to be comfortable with it.

Personally I am no fan of, and am even anti-supportive of companies like Microsoft, Apple, Sony, etc and want them to have the least of my money as possible, but honestly there is not always a good enough alternative. This is precisely why (sorry to say) your argument is mitigated to a large degree. It's either bite the bullet or don't have certain things.
OK. Back to gaming. Shall we boycott, e.g., Deus Ex HR because it has "stolen" quite a number of "features" from Splinter Cell Conviction, like cover, moving from cover to cover, fighting to mention just few? Or original Deus Ex because it had stolen so much content from System Shock? Win/Mac, DX/SC/SS are just examples, no need to discuss any of them, the point is we are witnessing every kind of copying and on every step in digital world which we so often ignore or don't pay attention to; but, on the other hand, we really hit the bells in some cases and try to be as vocal as possible, being jury and judge at the same time. Though I do not approve of piracy and plagiarism (I'd be on you-know-what sites instead of Steam if I did), I still think that we're overreacting regarding the issue at hand. If this issue is indeed a deal breaker and blatant theft of other's work, shouldn't the original artist sue the developer and shouldn't Steam act and remove the game from its store?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange Ninja View Post
Well, we'd love to listen to their points, but there been no response from the developers anywhere on the internet. Why should anyone have to contact them for clarity? If they want money from the consumers, they should contact us.
If I accuse you of something, it is only appropriate that I contact you and ask you for an explanation. Still, I do agree that their silence is not a way to go and it's hurting only them.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:02 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Mechratos View Post
it has "stolen" quite a number of "features" from Splinter Cell Conviction
lül, shore. makes perfect sense.
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:46 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Mechratos View Post
OK. Back to gaming. Shall we boycott, e.g., Deus Ex HR because it has "stolen" quite a number of "features" from Splinter Cell Conviction, like cover, moving from cover to cover, fighting to mention just few? Or original Deus Ex because it had stolen so much content from System Shock? Win/Mac, DX/SC/SS are just examples, no need to discuss any of them, the point is we are witnessing every kind of copying and on every step in digital world which we so often ignore or don't pay attention to; but, on the other hand, we really hit the bells in some cases and try to be as vocal as possible, being jury and judge at the same time. Though I do not approve of piracy and plagiarism (I'd be on you-know-what sites instead of Steam if I did), I still think that we're overreacting regarding the issue at hand. If this issue is indeed a deal breaker and blatant theft of other's work, shouldn't the original artist sue the developer and shouldn't Steam act and remove the game from its store?
There's nothing unusual (or wrong) with copying or adopting ideas from other sources or being inspired by other things or work that has been done. That is afterall the way of many things is it not? We see it every day from movies, to music, to books, even technology. It's when you take something directly without following the proper steps to creating a work of your own, that it becomes controversial and open to the kind of criticism seen here. It's one thing to have something else in mind as inspiration for when you create your own original artwork, and quite another to actually take that work of art without permission (whether physically or just the code for it as in this case) and then modify it for your own purposes from which you are profiting.

Regarding your other point, just because one may have been wronged (whether ethically or legally) and one has the ability and right to file a lawsuit, does not mean that it is necessarily worthwhile or make sense to do so (for whatever reason). Lawsuits take time and money and I don't imagine it would be worth the trouble in a case like this.

Last edited by Shad0WeN: 08-29-2012 at 07:51 PM.
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