OOC, why is Machina banned

[speedygeek]

It's not a straight upgrade... The tracer really isn't the main reason because by the time you get up to comp the players should be able to spot out a sniper very quickly regardless of the weapon used. And a fully charged bodyshot does not do 175 damage.

1. It can't noscope. That is a serious knock against the machina.
2. Too much "luck" involved. The multi-kill shots are basically luck, no skill involved except the first kill. Anything else after that is basically entirely luck that multiple players just happened to line up.

Those are the reasons I can think of off the top of my head. Meh. I'm too tired.

[Rynjin]

Originally Posted by speedygeek

And... a fully charged bodyshot does not do 175 damage.

It can with damage spread. It's like 172-177 or something.

OT: The Machina is banned because it can pierce through Ubers on a full charge. Only reason, just banned for glitches.

[mattyboyrocks23]

Originally Posted by Rynjin

It can with damage spread. It's like 172-177 or something.

OT: The Machina is banned because it can pierce through Ubers on a full charge. Only reason, just banned for glitches.

Fully charged

Originally Posted by wiki

147-198

[Rynjin]

Originally Posted by mattyboyrocks23

Fully charged

I stand corrected.

But anyway, it CAN one shot 175 HP classes either way.

[Candiru]

Originally Posted by sgtmattkind

You're threads continue to blow me away with how insightful they are sir.

Your.

You are threads? LOL

[I AM A BEE]

Originally Posted by Rynjin

OT: The Machina is banned because it can pierce through Ubers on a full charge. Only reason, just banned for glitches.

Ah ok, banned because valve cba to add uber detection.

And comp player's neophobic tendency to consider every weapon released since the Medic update to be like every pokemon game since the first two. (There are individual cases where I have to agree, but really, every weapon?)

Originally Posted by gameboy350

Because without it and other crutch weapons, competitive play is FUN!

But... lazors!

Originally Posted by Candiru

Your.

You are threads? LOL

I am threads

Originally Posted by speedygeek

Too much "luck" involved. The multi-kill shots are basically luck, no skill involved except the first kill. Anything else after that is basically entirely luck that multiple players just happened to line up.

Right, I forget that comp players' brains will spontaneously combust if something dies without someone shooting it in the head.

Not much different then something jumping in front of your rifle as you take the shot, you could still try to snipe lined-up players but yes, it's more likely to be chance that hoovy's medic ran behind him at that moment.

Personally, I prefer the Bargain for all my pub-sniping needs, but if that don't work, use more gun.

[CrashSite]

Ok, as it appears everyone has no idea what they are talking about, I can hopefully enlighten.

In Euro TF2, Vanilla is what we use, so the dicussion why this particular unlock is banned has never arisen.

In HL TF2, almost all unlocks are allowed, the machina is not because it penetrates ubers. This goes against the core of TF2, which is the uber should not be messed with, same reason why the holiday punch is banned and why the sandman was banned at the very beginning.

In NA I have no idea if it is banned or not. If it is, I am guessing for the same reasons as HL.

Now whether people think it is a bad weapon, or whatever, is up to you to discuss, but that is the reason it is banned in comp.


Also if you want to discuss why Vanilla is played, I am happy to discuss this. As it is a long argument, I am not going into it, unless you want me to.

[speedygeek]

Originally Posted by Rynjin

It can with damage spread. It's like 172-177 or something.

Originally Posted by Rynjin

But anyway, it CAN one shot 175 HP classes either way.

Have you played a single game of comp? There is NO damage spread enabled in comp. The only way to kill 175+ HP classes that are fully healed with any sniper rifle in one shot is a headshot.

Originally Posted by CrashSite

In HL TF2, almost all unlocks are allowed, the machina is not because it penetrates ubers.
In NA I have no idea if it is banned or not. If it is, I am guessing for the same reasons as HL.

This here isn't a discussion about vanilla. Euro comp bans just about everything except reskins and medic unlocks. No point in discussing it.

Not to mention that in ETF2L's HL site says nothing about machina banned. I'll quote their site: "All unlocks are currently allowed. Weapons that are released after sign-ups for the season opened, will be banned for the duration of the season."

That said, most of the complaints I've seen about machina is the total luck factor that just may end up wiping out several players with one shot, not so much the uber penetration.

I suggest that you read up on your sources before you start blabbering about how clueless people are.

[CrashSite]

Originally Posted by speedygeek

Have you played a single game of comp? There is NO damage spread enabled in comp. The only way to kill 175+ HP classes that are fully healed with any sniper rifle in one shot is a headshot.


This here isn't a discussion about vanilla. Euro comp bans just about everything except reskins and medic unlocks. No point in discussing it.

Not to mention that in ETF2L's site says nothing about machina banned. I'll quote their site: "All unlocks are currently allowed. Weapons that are released after sign-ups for the season opened, will be banned for the duration of the season."

I suggest that you read up on your sources before you start blabbering about how clueless people are.

...........

You do know I play in etf2l in Div 3 right?

That is why I said this: "In Euro TF2, Vanilla is what we use, so the dicussion why this particular unlock is banned has never arisen."

If that is the case, the rules need updating, but we play vanilla + medlocks. It doesn't change the fact we play Vanilla, the rules are as I quoted. I know what I am talking about. Unlike you it seems...

I wasn't discussing Vanilla I was just talking about the reasons, or lack thereof for each league.


P.S
Ah, you edited it.

I was referring to UGC HL and also to the thread dicussing Season 2 unlock bans. Please read all sources before commenting.

[speedygeek]

Originally Posted by CrashSite

...........

You do know I play in etf2l in Div 3 right?

That is why I said this: "In Euro TF2, Vanilla is what we use, so the dicussion why this particular unlock is banned has never arisen."

If that is the case, the rules need updating, but we play vanilla + medlocks. It doesn't change the fact we play Vanilla, the rules are as I quoted. I know what I am talking about. Unlike you it seems...

I wasn't discussing Vanilla I was just talking about the reasons, or lack thereof for each league.


P.S
Ah, you edited it.

I was referring to UGC HL and also to the thread dicussing Season 2 unlock bans. Please read all sources before commenting.

You do realize that I've played in ETF2L HL as well as UGC HL? I've also played 6s in NA as well. I'm not clueless. And if you were referring to UGC HL, then you should've made it clear. You talk about Euro 6s and jump to straight to HL. One can only logically assume that you were referring to ETF2L HL because... they have HL there too. And... you should learn to read. I said ETF2L's HL rather clearly. If you thought I was talking about EU 6s (which I clearly said no point in discussing because everything there is vanilla) there's a problem.

[CrashSite]

You are correct I was mistaken, then you edited it to make it more clear. I CBA to do the same on mine.

UGC HL unlocks was what I was going for, but I was also discussing etf2l HL in part, in reference to the thread concerning banned unlocks for Season 2.

[Rynjin]

Originally Posted by speedygeek

Have you played a single game of comp? There is NO damage spread enabled in comp. The only way to kill 175+ HP classes that are fully healed with any sniper rifle in one shot is a headshot.

Yes, I've been playing UGC HL all season.

But I believe your exact words were "The Machina CANNOT oneshot 175 HP classes", which is false. It CAN, provided damage spread is on.

[speedygeek]

Originally Posted by Rynjin

Yes, I've been playing UGC HL all season.

But I believe your exact words were "The Machina CANNOT oneshot 175 HP classes", which is false. It CAN, provided damage spread is on.

I thought this entire discussion was entirely based off of competitive environment only, and I've yet to see a single comp playing environment with damage spread on (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Thus, I saw no point in discussing damage spread.