Mods and conflicts

stoob · 03-05-2012, 06:04 AM

Is there an area where the modders can converse with each other? If so, do they use it?

There's usually a line in most mod descriptions stating this will conflict with that, or if it does conflict then change order, or change ini, etc.

Is there not somewhere where if a modder thinks "ooh, that'd be a good mod", then they can check with the rest of the community for similar or relative mods and how they have been implemented to avoid conflicts?

Seems a bit pointless having a 'mod community' if they don't talk to each other.

GangusKahn · 03-05-2012, 06:20 AM

If I create a mod I do it for myself. I post it so that you can enjoy it if you want to. If it conflicts with other mods thats your issue. I cant QA my mod with 1000 other mods to be sure it works with them. I dont have the time or desire for that. If I find out there is a conflict and get feedback about it from SEVERAL people not just one person I will post there is an issue. If I get no feedback I wont do anything.

bobczes · 03-05-2012, 06:36 AM

My question to modders would be what are the critical factors that create conflicts. How can I, as an end user, identify potential conflicts before I install a mod? What variables am I looking for?

real4xor · 03-05-2012, 07:02 AM

Well, plainly put, you could just install a mod, activate it and play.

If you got more than 1 mod installed, and the mod doesn`t work correctly, you could disable the other mods to see if there`s a conflict. And eventually what mod is conflicting. Or what`s not working correctly.
That`s already enough to know for mod developers to work together or make their mod compatible, at least note what other mods conflict.

Some mods alter certain game statistics, for instance change or add crafting recipies, and other mods that change the same things wíll either conflict or override.
Conflicting can be anything glitchy, overriding means the stats from the mod1 simply won`t appear when the mod2 is loaded as last mod. Only those crafting recipies of mod2 will appear.
Just make sure you kinda know what a mod changes when you install it.

And there`s pretty cool results like http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=1020
Which notes that installing 2 additional mods actually complement eachother on an overhaul.

stoob · 03-05-2012, 07:48 AM

Just seems to me, as backed up by Gangus, modders have little interest beyond their own mod and how this affects other modders or the community as a whole.

GangusKahn · 03-05-2012, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoob

Just seems to me, as backed up by Gangus, modders have little interest beyond their own mod and how this affects other modders or the community as a whole.

I will say its not that they dont care but its a monumental task if you think about it. I mean is a modder suppose to keep verifying his mod against the 100 or so mods added daily. Id need hundreds of people to help me with that not to mention the millions of combinations you could get with mods.

Its really a "User Beware" issue. Take it slow, verify your mods are working correctly, and dont install 20 mods at a time.

radiohat · 03-05-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoob

Just seems to me, as backed up by Gangus, modders have little interest beyond their own mod and how this affects other modders or the community as a whole.

That's not quite true. There are plenty modders out there, who will do nothing else than to make their installed mods compatible and they probably will post their outcome publicly.
And as time passes, there will be several of compatibility patches, unofficial patches, common libraries and stuff you could have never imagined to be needed... just like it happened with every other bethesda game. A few mods are already being worked on, as you may see in the official forums. (http://forums.bethsoft.com/forum/183-skyrim-mods/)

but it's probably a little bit too early to focus on compatibility issues while every mod out there is still in its infancy, the base game is still being patched, and no real "winner" has yet emerged. there's not even an overhaul as of right now.

Meanwhile, the BOSS-project is keeping track of incompatibilites, dependencies and general load order, but it heavily relies on the community. So if you should notice any conflicts, write in their thread in the bethsoft forums or on the nexus... (http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/135...ss-for-skyrim/)

and on a more general note, you could make yourself familiar with basic mod- or conflict-editing, because... you WILL need it with a few dozens of conflicting mods. and it's not that hard...

alehm · 03-05-2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GangusKahn

I mean is a modder suppose to keep verifying his mod against the 100 or so mods added daily. Id need hundreds of people to help me with that not to mention the millions of combinations you could get with mods.

That is probably what stoob expects you to do. For free.

Breton Warrior · 03-05-2012, 12:51 PM

Avoiding Conflicts where possibel is down to basic common sense.

Check the Descriptions, two or there Mods effecting or changing one type of thing as another poster commented will more often create a conflict. Example is that there are many Texture and Visual change Mods for Whiterun plus the Beth HiResPacks if you use more than one you will have odd things.

Followers or Other NPC's: Only use one type of Mod as a second will on some occasions just not work anyway. Changes to an NPC even if just adding a new Hair Mod or an improved Facial tweak can stop any other Mod that effects those same NPC's. Example is that a big overhaul of FO3/NV stopped the Hair Mods from working because they both tried to make changes to the same NPC.

Just Try One: Build you Mods up slowlly to see if each one is actually working, Stat changing mods like the Weight Changes are easy to check so are Textures (if they work?) Combat Tweaks, Moar Dragons and that type of thing may need a bit more play time to see how/if they are working.

Basically do not rush into having a big Mod Load Order, Skyrim is a very good out of the box game anyway, so take your time and tweak slowlly you will reap the benefit of 'building' a controlled load order.

BTW: Many players will say "I have 150 Mods and they all work fine" only those 150 Mod authors would know if they are all working as intended, we only see what we see, we do not see that which is not working, He He. BW

PS: I mod myself, and I try to make as many items in my work into 'custom named' items then they will not conflict with other mods using the same type of vanilla items. I know some modders who do as much as possible to avoid conflicts, I think with some it is not "I do not care" it is more I did not know that might happen.
A good modder will listen to feedback and fix things accordingly, all mods may need a few tweaks here and there and its the positive feedback that gets them fixed, rants achieve the total opposite and the modder may well just give up.

stoob · 03-05-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alehm

That is probably what stoob expects you to do. For free.

Not quite. But for example, if someone is making a mod to change a follower in some way, then a conversation with modders who have also made changes to the same follower would be appropriate.

Modding has to be free, they are changing someone else's intellectual property with no obligation of royalties, so that point is pretty moot.

giskarduk · 03-05-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GangusKahn

If I create a mod I do it for myself. I post it so that you can enjoy it if you want to. If it conflicts with other mods thats your issue. I cant QA my mod with 1000 other mods to be sure it works with them. I dont have the time or desire for that. If I find out there is a conflict and get feedback about it from SEVERAL people not just one person I will post there is an issue. If I get no feedback I wont do anything.

Yes I agree totally with every word you said.

Though I will add something to that.

Compatibility with other mods is best achieved whilst planning out the mod so you work out any issues before the mod even starts getting made. By release time you have avoided most major issues this way and get very few conflict reports.

Trouble is, 99% of all mods made have no real planning phase and have not considered other mods at all prior to the release. The C word only becomes important to the modder after the bug reports start rolling in by which time its too late.

Nor do those modders say their mods where not designed to work with other mods in their docs. They just let the player assume they will work when they dont.

Modders that do design mods to work with other mods ALWAYS say so in the docs because its been a consideration from the start and that want the player to know that. So from a players perspective, its best to assume mods do not work with each other rather than assuming they do and then read the readmes for the exceptions.

Players would get burned less this way.

Staind716 · 03-05-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GangusKahn

If I create a mod I do it for myself. I post it so that you can enjoy it if you want to. If it conflicts with other mods thats your issue. I cant QA my mod with 1000 other mods to be sure it works with them. I dont have the time or desire for that. If I find out there is a conflict and get feedback about it from SEVERAL people not just one person I will post there is an issue. If I get no feedback I wont do anything.

Exactly. It amazes me how ungrateful some people are when someone takes the time and effort to create a mod and allows others to use it for free. Some of us do appreciate everything you modders do. Keep up the great work and ignore all the whiners with the sense of entitlement complex.

Breton Warrior · 03-05-2012, 05:07 PM

A funny story on not knowing what other mods may do to yours.

I did a Water Tower Mod in FO3, built a Mini Vault inside one of them, well the inside was actually an interior cell but I checked it out and it could have really fitted inside just much to hard that way.

There is a Mod called Destruction (BTW a fantastic mod for FO3) that a lot of players used and it made a lot of static items destroyable and yes guess what the Water Towers was one of those he modified. So you could blow up the Water Tower I had my Mod built on, the Tower fell down and left all my added external parts just hanging up there in mid air. He He He.

That was when I started to 'custom' name a lot of the parts I used, in this case just to stop that one particular Tower from being blown up.

03-05-2012, 06:04 AM	#1
stoob Join Date: Feb 2011 Reputation: 124 Posts: 1,051	Mods and conflicts Is there an area where the modders can converse with each other? If so, do they use it? There's usually a line in most mod descriptions stating this will conflict with that, or if it does conflict then change order, or change ini, etc. Is there not somewhere where if a modder thinks "ooh, that'd be a good mod", then they can check with the rest of the community for similar or relative mods and how they have been implemented to avoid conflicts? Seems a bit pointless having a 'mod community' if they don't talk to each other.

03-05-2012, 07:02 AM	#4
real4xor Join Date: Oct 2009 Reputation: 1821 Posts: 3,154	Well, plainly put, you could just install a mod, activate it and play. If you got more than 1 mod installed, and the mod doesn`t work correctly, you could disable the other mods to see if there`s a conflict. And eventually what mod is conflicting. Or what`s not working correctly. That`s already enough to know for mod developers to work together or make their mod compatible, at least note what other mods conflict. Some mods alter certain game statistics, for instance change or add crafting recipies, and other mods that change the same things wíll either conflict or override. Conflicting can be anything glitchy, overriding means the stats from the mod1 simply won`t appear when the mod2 is loaded as last mod. Only those crafting recipies of mod2 will appear. Just make sure you kinda know what a mod changes when you install it. And there`s pretty cool results like http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=1020 Which notes that installing 2 additional mods actually complement eachother on an overhaul. Last edited by real4xor: 03-05-2012 at 09:12 AM.

03-05-2012, 12:51 PM	#9
Breton Warrior Join Date: Apr 2011 Reputation: 280 Posts: 2,385	Avoiding Conflicts where possibel is down to basic common sense. Check the Descriptions, two or there Mods effecting or changing one type of thing as another poster commented will more often create a conflict. Example is that there are many Texture and Visual change Mods for Whiterun plus the Beth HiResPacks if you use more than one you will have odd things. Followers or Other NPC's: Only use one type of Mod as a second will on some occasions just not work anyway. Changes to an NPC even if just adding a new Hair Mod or an improved Facial tweak can stop any other Mod that effects those same NPC's. Example is that a big overhaul of FO3/NV stopped the Hair Mods from working because they both tried to make changes to the same NPC. Just Try One: Build you Mods up slowlly to see if each one is actually working, Stat changing mods like the Weight Changes are easy to check so are Textures (if they work?) Combat Tweaks, Moar Dragons and that type of thing may need a bit more play time to see how/if they are working. Basically do not rush into having a big Mod Load Order, Skyrim is a very good out of the box game anyway, so take your time and tweak slowlly you will reap the benefit of 'building' a controlled load order. BTW: Many players will say "I have 150 Mods and they all work fine" only those 150 Mod authors would know if they are all working as intended, we only see what we see, we do not see that which is not working, He He. BW PS: I mod myself, and I try to make as many items in my work into 'custom named' items then they will not conflict with other mods using the same type of vanilla items. I know some modders who do as much as possible to avoid conflicts, I think with some it is not "I do not care" it is more I did not know that might happen. A good modder will listen to feedback and fix things accordingly, all mods may need a few tweaks here and there and its the positive feedback that gets them fixed, rants achieve the total opposite and the modder may well just give up. Last edited by Breton Warrior: 03-05-2012 at 12:57 PM.

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03-05-2012, 06:20 AM	#2
GangusKahn Join Date: Mar 2011 Reputation: 43 Posts: 442	If I create a mod I do it for myself. I post it so that you can enjoy it if you want to. If it conflicts with other mods thats your issue. I cant QA my mod with 1000 other mods to be sure it works with them. I dont have the time or desire for that. If I find out there is a conflict and get feedback about it from SEVERAL people not just one person I will post there is an issue. If I get no feedback I wont do anything.

03-05-2012, 06:36 AM	#3
bobczes Join Date: Feb 2012 Reputation: 567 Posts: 3,032	My question to modders would be what are the critical factors that create conflicts. How can I, as an end user, identify potential conflicts before I install a mod? What variables am I looking for?

03-05-2012, 07:48 AM	#5
stoob Join Date: Feb 2011 Reputation: 124 Posts: 1,051	Just seems to me, as backed up by Gangus, modders have little interest beyond their own mod and how this affects other modders or the community as a whole.

03-05-2012, 05:07 PM	#13
Breton Warrior Join Date: Apr 2011 Reputation: 280 Posts: 2,385	A funny story on not knowing what other mods may do to yours. I did a Water Tower Mod in FO3, built a Mini Vault inside one of them, well the inside was actually an interior cell but I checked it out and it could have really fitted inside just much to hard that way. There is a Mod called Destruction (BTW a fantastic mod for FO3) that a lot of players used and it made a lot of static items destroyable and yes guess what the Water Towers was one of those he modified. So you could blow up the Water Tower I had my Mod built on, the Tower fell down and left all my added external parts just hanging up there in mid air. He He He. That was when I started to 'custom' name a lot of the parts I used, in this case just to stop that one particular Tower from being blown up.