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Old 03-07-2012, 07:15 AM   #16
Dr.Boo.j2
 
 
 
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Well, I'll agree that some things need to be changed. Like the myriads of healthkits (yes DeC 2 and Parish 3, I'm looking at you) and the Wandering Witch's aggro radius is laughable.
But on the other hand, we got Realism Versus which makes it a lot harder on the Survivors yet barely anyone plays it. Instead, they come here and complain about the Survivors being OP.
F-kkin figures.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:05 AM   #17
hedberg
 
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because 25 points tiebraker is not showing the difference beetween teams, thats why it's a problem.

like: they limp inside with red all the maps, you make it with green all the maps, but you make a mistake on 4th and somebody dies near the map start (Tank with a lucky hittable), well, you lost good sir, even if the other 3 makes it.

Last edited by hedberg: 03-07-2012 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:48 AM   #18
MuphreysLaw
 
 
 
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The comparison with MW is a bit silly. I don't really need to explain why.

Out of boredom I ventured into public versus for the first time in a VERY long time a few days ago. One game the teams weren't evenly matched. On our survivor round we walked into the saferoom with green health and 4 kits on our back - the other team barely touching us. On our infected round we landed every attack almost in sync. The enemy team were taking incaps and getting dominated on every attack. None of this mattered because every time we got a successful attack they had a health pack, pills, adrenaline. And after they'd used everything they found more. They limped into the saferoom. Red Health. Bleeding out. Black and white. We got 25 points more. The second game I played is slightly more important because it shows the main issue - what happens when the teams are balanced.

Another game the teams were more evenly matched. One of those rare games where both teams actually know how to play the game. This whole game was nothing but a boring/frustrating experience for both teams. Made even more frustrating when the T2 weapons came into play. Because of how powerful the weapons are all attacks for both sides were shut down before any real damage could be done. Occasionally one side pulled off a good attack but this was not represented in the final scores. It didn't matter. It was a simple back and forth of 25 points. The infected round is SO challenging because the survivors are overpowered, the survivor round is not a challenge at all which makes the survivors BORING to play as. There are huge balance issues.

On both occasions the other team quit early. The second team did last a little longer though.

Public versus is absolutely fine for new players who have not touched the game before. Players who do not know the game mechanics, the maps etc. In that case it is absolutely a fun experience. Think back to the day you first played the game...

For players who are a little more experienced (say 200+ hours) it is completly broken. I really hope they bring back the Confogl Mutation, with the updates that have been applied, and possibly make it a permanent feature on the main menu. I won't touch public games again until they do, my experience a few days ago taught me why I hate vanilla versus.

Last edited by MuphreysLaw: 03-07-2012 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:21 AM   #19
ProdigySim
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POLICEMATRIX View Post
well nice try at a metaphor but bullying is a tad bit different than l4d2
as you will find the bully doesnt give the victim a chance to fight back, also the bully usually has a gang of mates with him and the victim is alone and doesnt want to fight .
Whereas l4d2 we all want to fight, plus the sides are even ,and if in your attempted at a metaphor you meant the survivors are the bully then this is flawed too because in your metaphoric world the victim would "posses" the bullies body and vice versa with the bully which sounds pretty even to me.
anyway youve got your vanilla so whats the problem ?
Woah woah, who said anything about bullying? It was a fun game I used to play when I was a kid. Nobody was getting bullied. Everyone got a chance to beat up everyone else. You did get a turn to fight back!

We had another similar game wher we'd split up into two teams, give one team bats and airsoft guns, and the other team absolutely nothing. We'd shoot and beat the other team senseless and then trade sides. It was so much fun!!!! But some people still thought this game was lame. :/
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:53 AM   #20
jasminethecat
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuphreysLaw View Post
The comparison with MW is a bit silly. I don't really need to explain why.

Out of boredom I ventured into public versus for the first time in a VERY long time a few days ago. One game the teams weren't evenly matched. On our survivor round we walked into the saferoom with green health and 4 kits on our back - the other team barely touching us. On our infected round we landed every attack almost in sync. The enemy team were taking incaps and getting dominated on every attack. None of this mattered because every time we got a successful attack they had a health pack, pills, adrenaline. And after they'd used everything they found more. They limped into the saferoom. Red Health. Bleeding out. Black and white. We got 25 points more. The second game I played is slightly more important because it shows the main issue - what happens when the teams are balanced.

Another game the teams were more evenly matched. One of those rare games where both teams actually know how to play the game. This whole game was nothing but a boring/frustrating experience for both teams. Made even more frustrating when the T2 weapons came into play. Because of how powerful the weapons are all attacks for both sides were shut down before any real damage could be done. Occasionally one side pulled off a good attack but this was not represented in the final scores. It didn't matter. It was a simple back and forth of 25 points. The infected round is SO challenging because the survivors are overpowered, the survivor round is not a challenge at all which makes the survivors BORING to play as. There are huge balance issues.

On both occasions the other team quit early. The second team did last a little longer though.

Public versus is absolutely fine for new players who have not touched the game before. Players who do not know the game mechanics, the maps etc. In that case it is absolutely a fun experience. Think back to the day you first played the game...

For players who are a little more experienced (say 200+ hours) it is completly broken. I really hope they bring back the Confogl Mutation, with the updates that have been applied, and possibly make it a permanent feature on the main menu. I won't touch public games again until they do, my experience a few days ago taught me why I hate vanilla versus.
Um...confogl is still available, you just need to find a server. And you and your friends could also try realism versus.

You have options here other than not playing.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:06 AM   #21
MuphreysLaw
 
 
 
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A reference to public games with randoms found via the main menu. I still play private games of course.

Last edited by MuphreysLaw: 03-07-2012 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:06 AM   #22
source-maps
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Boo.j2 View Post
Well, I'll agree that some things need to be changed. Like the myriads of healthkits (yes DeC 2 and Parish 3, I'm looking at you) and the Wandering Witch's aggro radius is laughable.
But on the other hand, we got Realism Versus which makes it a lot harder on the Survivors yet barely anyone plays it. Instead, they come here and complain about the Survivors being OP.
F-kkin figures.
I think the glow is what kills it, random people that play together rely on it

really, best thing to still do for Valve is get some top players and balance vanilla versus out

so it does not have a lot of healing and trowing items
witch argo is higher, tier 2 and melee do less DPS etc etc
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:14 AM   #23
POLICEMATRIX
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by ProdigySim View Post
Woah woah, who said anything about bullying? It was a fun game I used to play when I was a kid. Nobody was getting bullied. Everyone got a chance to beat up everyone else. You did get a turn to fight back!

We had another similar game wher we'd split up into two teams, give one team bats and airsoft guns, and the other team absolutely nothing. We'd shoot and beat the other team senseless and then trade sides. It was so much fun!!!! But some people still thought this game was lame. :/
hahahaha nice think it was me reminiscing on my own childhood
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:15 AM   #24
john_volkov
 
 
 
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I think most of the time why the survivors are OP it's because they are kind of super humans ex: you can shove a hunter falling fromg a huge distance, can kill 10 zombies with with a single swipe , can shot a lot of bullets without without your arms hurting you , most CI they are more dumb then they look.Most of the time the Survivors are to powerfull to even be beliveble.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:22 AM   #25
jasminethecat
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by source-maps View Post
I think the glow is what kills it, random people that play together rely on it

really, best thing to still do for Valve is get some top players and balance vanilla versus out

so it does not have a lot of healing and trowing items
witch argo is higher, tier 2 and melee do less DPS etc etc
I'd be fine with this as long as confogl isn't a pre-set final objective.

You know that realism versus is still a better starting point than vanilla. Glows completely negate the jockey, smoker and charger's ability to separate. They instantly show health, exact position and condition (i.e. pinned, incapped, jockeyed, etc.) from any distance.

If we could just get rid of survivor glows in every versus mode the game would instantly take a turn for the better IMO. Glows are a filthy crutch trapped under the armpit of the average player.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:48 AM   #26
MMZ>Torak
 
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Originally Posted by KillzNThrillz View Post
...people complain about survivors being overpowered when they get to play as them too? I'm not trolling, but I really don't understand this. It's like saying the Type 95 from MW3 is overpowered, but you use it.
If Survivors got a Selective Targeting Tac-Nuke that killed all infected on the map and keep the Special Infected from respawning, it would be balanced because when you play survivor, you could use it too.

Amirite?
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:11 AM   #27
Domenic
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by Mr. Draco View Post
It is clear that Valve is absolutely terrible at making competitive gameplay. Just look at what they did to TF2
No idea what you’re talking about, competitive TF2 is thriving. Wile most games are lucky to have a single competitive gaming league, TF2 has a has crap-tons of leagues around the world. Off the top of my head there’s ETF2L, CEVO, ESEA, UGC 6v6 and UGC highlander.

It’s hard to argue Valve’s doing anything wrong when it comes to competitive play in TF2.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:37 AM   #28
Kaizoku
 
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No idea what you’re talking about, competitive TF2 is thriving. Wile most games are lucky to have a single competitive gaming league, TF2 has a has crap-tons of leagues around the world. Off the top of my head there’s ETF2L, CEVO, ESEA, UGC 6v6 and UGC highlander.

It’s hard to argue Valve’s doing anything wrong when it comes to competitive play in TF2.
In all fairness, it's really the players that made the competitive scene, not so much the devs.

On topic though, all the examples being used to mirror the situation are accurate. The better team doesn't always win, because of how the game is set up team skill becomes a smaller and smaller variable in how the match is determined. Given that two teams skill is nearly equal, the survivors will survive, and the game will hinge on a tiebreaker or a lucky death charge, both things are really small percents of overall score and scope of skills in the game.

In an entire round of both teams playing both sides, only about 5% of a given round is determining of a lead in score for one side or the other, which creates artificially close games. You're fighting over 25-100 points a round in a game where the score goes into the thousands, wouldn't it be much better and much more demonstrative of which team was better if more of the score pool was in contention and not guaranteed?
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by bluz74 View Post
They complain because they are bad.
Fixed breh
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:58 AM   #30
FapJak
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by MMZ>Torak View Post
If Survivors got a Selective Targeting Tac-Nuke that killed all infected on the map and keep the Special Infected from respawning, it would be balanced because when you play survivor, you could use it too.

Amirite?
Here is something smart boy. What if a skilled hunter sneaked behind the OP survivors and scratched em. Bam round 2 infected get the nukes as survivors but none of the infected does any damage. Survivor team 2 wins because the hunter did 10 dmg. See where I am going?

Its not the game its the players that play it.

Last edited by FapJak: 03-07-2012 at 12:01 PM.
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