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12-14-2010, 12:23 AM   #16
Zyrin

Join Date: Sep 2009
Reputation: 53
Posts: 152
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jdun Lets put it this way can you force the balls to go a certain path and come back at certain path? No it does not. Balls hit balls. Balls can call back all at the same time. You can't predict trajectory of all three balls at the same time. There is randomness built into the code. In the first minute is all base on luck. If luck wasn't in the game only reflex than getting the achievement would not be hard.
You're confusing your inability to do it with nobody being able to do it, which just isn't true.

It IS all in the first minute, when they're moving slow enough that you can position them in such a way that they won't bounce off of each other. You can keep that up long enough to be able to drop one or even two and get a high score.

You can't just hit them without any thought to how they're hitting the bumper, it's all in properly sending them at angles away from each other so they'll cycle back to you. You can't keep that up forever, but it's not impossible to do it at all.

12-14-2010, 12:26 AM   #17
takumalight

Join Date: Aug 2009
Reputation: 21
Posts: 158
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jdun Lets put it this way can you force the balls to go a certain path and come back at certain path? No it does not. Balls hit balls. Balls can call back all at the same time. You can't predict trajectory of all three balls at the same time. There is randomness built into the code. In the first minute is all base on luck. If luck wasn't in the game only reflex than getting the achievement would not be hard.
Yes you can make the balls go a certain way. It all depends on where on your bat you bounce them off. If you bounce it off the top edge the ball will angle that way and vice-versa. If you angled the ball is such a way that it bounces off another ball, that's your own doing. They don't bounce off each other randomly either. They bounce off each other just the same as if a wall had been there instead of another ball.

When the balls all come back at the same time that's because you angled their trajectory such that they would. As I said before, even if you didn't intend it that way, it was still your doing.

Can't keep track of the trajectories of all three balls all the time? Guess what, neither can I nor MANY of the players here. Guess what else, that's not RANDOMNESS in any form. My advice to you is to not keep complete track of all the balls all the time and just worry about finding the one ball that's going to head towards your bat next.

There's randomness in the game's code? Really? Please, demonstrate to me how you decompiled the entire game and went through the coding and found this, I'm very intrigued...

More news: It IS all about reflexes and precision. If your reflexes aren't good enough then I'm sorry but that's not the game's fault.

12-14-2010, 12:36 AM   #18
TomKQT

Join Date: Jun 2008
Reputation: 574
Posts: 4,683
Quote:
 Originally Posted by natezomby You're right, luck and inhuman reflexes. If you're under 20 and on ADD medication I'm sure you can do it, but normal gamers - the kind that spend most of the money (Steam's target audience, remember?) can not.
I did 13,900,000.
I'm 30.
I was even getting dizzy because of the background, so I definitelly am not such hyperactive player able to play the fastest games.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Zyrin 2. Learn to hit the balls as close to the center of the bumper as you can as often as you can, this will keep it much more controlled for as long as possible while keeping their speeds even.
That's not so true. Sometimes it's much better to try to hit the ball by the end of your paddle. Especially in the first level when you are with your last ball and thus have more time, it's better to aim the ball as horizontally as possible - it must hit the opposing wall, because otherwise it'll start going up and down and will be very hard for you to place your platform properly. And it it comes to you in an angle and you want to send it horizontally - you have to hit it by an edge.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by takumalight More news: It IS all about reflexes and precision. If your reflexes aren't good enough then I'm sorry but that's not the game's fault.
I'll add another factor - patience. That's what the newer players seem to lack.

12-14-2010, 12:43 AM   #19
Zyrin

Join Date: Sep 2009
Reputation: 53
Posts: 152
Quote:
 Originally Posted by TomKQT That's not so true. Sometimes it's much better to try to hit the ball by the end of your paddle. Especially in the first level when you are with your last ball and thus have more time, it's better to aim the ball as horizontally as possible - it must hit the opposing wall, because otherwise it'll start going up and down and will be very hard for you to place your platform properly. And it it comes to you in an angle and you want to send it horizontally - you have to hit it by an edge.
Yeah, I was mostly just giving a general tip for the guys claiming it's entirely random. Like all things there is some finesse involved, but at least trying to keep it mostly dead center most of the time would help 99% of the guys getting sub-3.5 million scores while just randomly moving the bumper around just trying to hit it at all.

 12-14-2010, 01:31 AM #20 MeatyLlamaStick   Join Date: Aug 2009 Reputation: 16 Posts: 235 Chaotic system does not = randomness. Really, if you give up before hitting the goal, maybe you need A.D.D. medication. It's not easy but it's far from difficult. I'd hate to see you try a Touhou game, or something similar, and get frustrated to the point of crying on the easy mode.
 12-14-2010, 01:36 AM #21 X01   Banned Join Date: May 2010 Reputation: 9 Posts: 236 I would say the amount of luck is determined by your level of skill. For me, I would say it was about 30% skill and 70% luck, for others it would be different.
12-14-2010, 09:24 AM   #22
ozgeek

Join Date: Jun 2006
Reputation: 252
Posts: 2,158
Quote:
 Originally Posted by takumalight The Bonus Mode is actually RANDOM-FREE. Where the balls go all depends on where you hit it on the paddle. They always will bounce of the walls at the same angle every time. The only "outside force" on the balls is the "gravity" which is constant, not random.
No it is random. how you get the score is luck. Because I've seen the balls curve themselves at random angles there is little to no skill needed to score other than speed. And also I see the balls hit the side walls and bouce off them at different angles, breaking bouncing phyics. I know it has gravity but that is not what I mean. Sometimes the ball bounce at 45 deg and go back the wat it cames or hit the other side wall instead of going the other 45deg or at random deg angles.

I regularly see the balls curve deperately to miss the back wall. The balls seems to hate the back wall (the wall opposite the player's own wall even though I hit the balls in the middle.

You just got lucky like I and many others who passed.

12-14-2010, 09:28 AM   #23
takumalight

Join Date: Aug 2009
Reputation: 21
Posts: 158
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ozgeek No it is random. how you get the score is luck. Because I've seen the balls curve themselves at random angles there is little to no skill needed to score other than speed. And also I see the balls hit the side walls and bouce off them at different angles, breaking bouncing phyics. I know it has gravity but that is not what I mean. Sometimes the ball bounce at 45 deg and go back the wat it cames or hit the other side wall instead of going the other 45deg or at random deg angles. I regularly see the balls curve deperately to miss the back wall. The balls seems to hate the back wall (the wall opposite the player's own wall even though I hit the balls in the middle. You just got lucky like I and many others who passed.
That "curve deperately to miss the back wall" is the gravity.

Lucky my rear-end. I was doing my best to calculate every single bounce until it paid-off. There was no "luck" or "randomness" involved.

12-14-2010, 01:45 PM   #24
MeatyLlamaStick

Join Date: Aug 2009
Reputation: 16
Posts: 235
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ozgeek No it is random. how you get the score is luck. Because I've seen the balls curve themselves at random angles there is little to no skill needed to score other than speed. And also I see the balls hit the side walls and bouce off them at different angles, breaking bouncing phyics. I know it has gravity but that is not what I mean. Sometimes the ball bounce at 45 deg and go back the wat it cames or hit the other side wall instead of going the other 45deg or at random deg angles. I regularly see the balls curve deperately to miss the back wall. The balls seems to hate the back wall (the wall opposite the player's own wall even though I hit the balls in the middle. You just got lucky like I and many others who passed.
...because the gravity is warped. Look at the background and you can see the lines of where the warps are. They're always the same and don't move. Not random.

12-15-2010, 08:00 PM   #25
captain_video

Join Date: Aug 2010
Reputation: 203
Posts: 1,253
Quote:
 Originally Posted by MeatyLlamaStick ...because the gravity is warped. Look at the background and you can see the lines of where the warps are. They're always the same and don't move. Not random.
Actually they do move, and it is random, just not enough to prevent anyone with reasonable skill from completing the objective. Due to the shifting warp field, there is some randomness to how the balls approach you before first contact.

I'm 55 and have bad eyes, and I still did it. It doesn't even matter if you lose a ball due to a collision; the trick is to get as much as you can (at least 2M) before you're down to the final ball, and then keep that ball alive to at least 4M per level, which just takes a little practice. It's not anywhere close to the hardest objective in the treasure hunt.

 12-16-2010, 09:58 AM #26 snapfoo   Join Date: Feb 2010 Reputation: 1 Posts: 32 I steadily improved my bonus score until I reached the achievement. It was very consistent for me. Didn't seem random at all. The balls going faster definitely made it more intense, but gravity increased too. The balls definitely began to curve more and more as time went on. I'm not sure if it fluctuates...it seems to...but perhaps this is what leads to the feeling of randomness that people are complaining about. I enjoy every moment of it, though.
 05-07-2011, 09:06 PM #27 crunchyfrog555      Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Reputation: 2669 Posts: 9,509 It is definitely not luck, or randomness. The degree with which you can curve the ball results in total control, which overrides ANY element of randomness which might have been created. If you cannot appreciate that, you either not adapting to the play mechanics properly, or you just aren't very good (and are misinterpreting the problem). For information, I'm 44, I'm fairly crap at that game, but I do know what's going on and how to make the ball go where I want it to go, even when there's multiball.
 08-13-2011, 07:46 AM #28 Heal.P.XER0   Guest Posts: n/a The only randomness I've ever noticed in Shatter were 1. the items you can get when you break specific blocks, 2. the music selection and the blocks in Endless and Time Attack mode.
04-11-2012, 09:39 PM   #30
Me2nice

Join Date: Apr 2010
Reputation: 232
Posts: 4,379
Quote:
You revived a thread that has been dead for almost EIGHT months because...

Last edited by Me2nice: 04-12-2012 at 10:42 PM.

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