Combat too unforgiving?

[Cadeyrn]

I'd say I'm quite a ways past halfway through the game now, and it's mostly fun and the platforming is great, but the fighting is just ridiculous. Honestly, I'm shocked out of my mind that I can't find a single topic on how horrible the combat is.

That is, there are plenty of articles on the mistakes the combat made as far as game design goes, but I'm talking about how the fighting, on its own, comes together, including glitches. I think the difficulty curve has massive jumps when you have to fight the guards in black.

The first time I ran into these guys, it took me around 10 tries to finally learn that they will not go down unless I either manage a disarm (which is impossible to time so I just spam the button, which works well (that shouldn't work well; the game should be penalizing me for it)) or kick them in a very specific combo: slide or jump, then 3 normal punches, then another slide or jump. If I make two mistakes AT ALL, I have to start the whole sequence over.*

The length of this combo makes it impossible to take out more than one enemy at a time without being shot to death by the other, and disarming is way too hard to time properly enough times in a row to survive an entire wave of baddies. So, after a ton more tries I managed to learn I can get the enemies to separate by running and hiding, which is a very boring tactic that sucks the fun out of the game and feels like I'm exploiting the AI, but I have to do it to go on. It would be like if Skyrim always forced you to beat enemies by jumping onto a ledge they can't get to and spamming the bow. Even with this method, the two-strikes-and-you're-out mechanic makes every one of these sequences take a ridiculous amount of tries, especially since crouch-punching feels non-responsive and jump-kicking really IS non-responsive, making one of my strikes almost always be forfeited to glitches.**


*That's another thing--if a game is going to be so unforgiving, that's fine, but it needs a quicksave feature or it becomes too frustrating to be playable.
**And ANOTHER thing--if a game is going to be so unforgiving, it's only still fun if you make sure the game doesn't kill the player because of glitches. Glitches are not the player's fault.


TL;DR: the combat is way too hard because Faith dies too easily and the game forces you to try the same thing over and over because nothing else works. There's no room for strategy or trying to hit them from another direction. When you can hit them from another direction, it doesn't make a difference.

And for the record, I'm a huge fan of getting constantly shot in the head as many times as I kill an enemy in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. running the Oblivion Lost mod, so don't tell me I just don't like unforgiving gameplay. I just don't like poorly-designed unforgiving gameplay.

[AmphibiousKitty]

Well first off the combat isn't hard at all. Yes there are a few issues here and there and it can be frustrating, but hard? No sir it isn't. You aren't supposed to take on multiple enemies. You isolate one, disarm them, and light up the other one(s) or you just run and avoid them all together. Besides if you are having issues with disarming, just practice it or press R to slow down time and make it a whole lot easier.

[Cadeyrn]

I'm talking about the sequences in which you REALLLLLY can't run and avoid them because the only way out is too slow. And I suppose the combat would be easy if I used the guns to light up the other ones, but I'm trying to get the Test of Faith achievement and I just don't want to use guns anyway, regardless of the achievement. I'm probably the thousandth person to say it sucks that Mirror's Edge makes gun usage so hard to avoid.

That said, try playing the fight after you stowaway on that ship without using guns and get back to me on whether you think the combat isn't too hard.

[AmphibiousKitty]

Actually I did get past that part of the game without combat before, it wasn't easy but it wasn't infuriating. All I had to do was stealth my way behind the boxes and juke them out by sliding and jumping all over the place. The AI is pretty random though so it took a long time to get a run in where they didn't light me up as I tried to make my great escape.


So yeah basically what I'm saying is that the combat is simple but towards the end when you are faced with numerous heavy soldiers and normal squad soldiers THEN it gets a little bit difficult, but hey, practice makes perfect.

[Cadeyrn]

"The AI is pretty random though so it took a long time to get a run in where they didn't light me up as I tried to make my great escape."

THAT'S what I'm complaining about here. The game forces you to try over and over again no matter what. In Mirror's Edge, difficulty == how much the game FORCES you to die before you can finally move further on in the game, and that is complete failure game design that sucks the fun out for me.

[AmphibiousKitty]

If that is what sucks the fun out of a game for you then I feel really bad for you. Mirror's Edge is a unique game, albeit frustrating because of the trial and error aspect, but that is also what makes it rewarding. Nothing feels better than finally clearing a room of enemies after 5 tries.

[Cadeyrn]

What. So, you don't mind getting invested in one playthrough only to see it fail, and then having to fight the same guys again? Seriously? I've never heard of anyone actually ENJOYING something like that. Having to go through the whole of something again because you messed up at the end of it is never not annoying, and how tolerable it is depends on how fun the game is, how much you have to do again, and how much the game lets you change up how you do it.

I wish I had your superpower. I'd be able to enjoy retaking my notes when I accidentally delete them.

[AmphibiousKitty]

Actually yes. Considering Mirrors Edge is a very fun game, you CAN replay certain parts a few times before you want to turn it off, and then when you come back after you've cooled down you tend to beat it right away.

[All0utWar]

I just flat out don't fight. I run past everything that shoots at me.

[spyrochaete]

I got fed up with the combat and now I just play the game on easy. All it affects is the amount of damage you take from enemies (and perhaps the amount of damage you cause as well).

I really don't like the disarm mechanic. I think it's intended that you use the "bullet time" slowdown button to give you a better window of opportunity, which is totally stupid. I hate games where you are the chosen one and the only person in the universe who can slow time and dodge bullets.

Playing the game on easy solves almost every problem this game has with combat and allows you to focus on the platforming. I highly recommend it.

[cedward1]

I don't mind having to do the combat over and over again as much as the parts where you pretty much have to run away. Like the part in Pope's office, where I ran down the same dumb hallway time after time, only to get killed because I couldn't get my computer hardware to cooperate well and kept getting stuck against a wall or in a corner.

Oh well, no game is perfect. Maybe I'll try the easy setting. I like the puzzle solving, exploration, and storyline more than anything else. I used to feel bad about using walkthroughs or setting things to easy, but if you're playing for the story why not?

[SinisterGimp]

Originally Posted by cedward1

I used to feel bad about using walkthroughs or setting things to easy, but if you're playing for the story why not?

Every single game I've ever bought or will ever buy, I play on easy difficulty first.
I do this because I want to enjoy the story without having to reload certain parts time and time again because I was too busy trying to kill stuff and then subsequently dying.
Over and over again.

Once I have completed said game, enjoyed its story, I will then go back and increase the difficulty setting.

So never feel bad about playing on easy.

[BensonTito]

Mirrors Edge is definitely a game that should just be played on easy, with no guilt required. The combat is so basic and poor, that it is just completely redundant. People defend it, but I have no idea know why. Just stick it on easy and enjoy the parts they did superbly well i.e. most of the game.

[Domarius]

Originally Posted by Cadeyrn

...And I suppose the combat would be easy if I used the guns to light up the other ones, but I'm trying to get the Test of Faith achievement and I just don't want to use guns anyway, regardless of the achievement.

Ok well that's the part you should have mentioned first. I think the game is balanced enough "the way it's meant to be played", but now you're entering "elitist" territory, such as achievements requiring you do something extreme (eg. deliberately avoid guns even in parts where they obviously designed it for you to use them). And when you take one aspect of the game to an extreme, you increase your chances of having experiences that aren't quite thoroughly fleshed out by the game developers.

On a side note, one of your complaints is that you have to get them to separate, which is a totally valid tactic - how do you expect an unarmed character to take on several armed characters in any believable way? That's also how it's done in Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, because he doesn't have a gun either. If this in itself was a boring task in the game, I would feel you have a point, but I never felt like I was exploiting them. It's possible since you are soley relying on this approach when they've counted on you using a gun that you're running into frustrating fringe situations that aren't really catered for.

Regarding guns: one of the great aspects of this game is the way it contrasts the running with the shooting - most games are about shooting, but this is primarily about running, which means the rare moments where you get hold of a gun can be a very satisfying chance of pace where you turn into Rambo for a few moments, showing off some of your other skills. With no ammo re-loads, and impossible to jump with, these are meant to be short-lived experiences.

Look, I like talking about what the game could have been on a much larger scale, eg. a game about "free-running" should be more of a sandbox, open world game! This would give you multiple approaches to a situation and indeed open up more opportunities to avoid gun fights altogether, which is what you wanted! But the game is clearly created on rails, so you shouldn't be surprised when it becomes frustrating to do things "off the rails".

And if the combat really was frustratingly crippled, I would hate that - but like a lot of other people, I didn't find it so. What you seem to be complaining about is that your waif-like lightly-clothed female character is having a tough time taking on big men in armour and helmets with fully-automatic rifles, without a gun.

I think the answer to your problem is - just pick up the gun. The first guy you take out is your window of opportunity to get a gun and take out the others easily - which is already ridiculously improbable given those soldiers have extensive weapons training and her focus is running, and she is out-numbered. You're taking it to ridiculous levels by not shooting during the shooting segments.

But if you want the Test Of Faith achievement, you should be keeping the above in mind. For a person to believably get through a situation like that, she'd have to be some kind of super human, or incredibly lucky. You're experiencing all the bad points of that situation. And even in game terms - there's no sticker on the box that says "meant to be played without guns", you get the message from parts of the games that you ARE supposed to use guns in certain parts. Achievements are out-side the norm and for enthusiasts to strive for, for something a bit extra - so encountering frustrating game limitations in this situation is kind of justified.

[sh4dow83]

No way. I never even used weapons and got through the story mode on hard very easily.
Now... getting all the stars on all the levels in time trials - THERE'S a tough challenge.