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Old 03-27-2012, 05:58 PM   #31
Smaug99
 
 
 
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The issue is not that it is not working as easily as brainlessly putting it in the drive as it is that it was released before it had most of the kinks worked out. It is not unreasonable to tell a person to update their drivers. That is essentially the solution that was given to me. I've done that and it continues not to work. So where am I going wrong? Care to point me in the right direction?
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:31 AM   #32
Sanzor
 
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Originally Posted by Smaug99 View Post
The issue is not that it is not working as easily as brainlessly putting it in the drive as it is that it was released before it had most of the kinks worked out. It is not unreasonable to tell a person to update their drivers. That is essentially the solution that was given to me. I've done that and it continues not to work. So where am I going wrong? Care to point me in the right direction?
You say it dosen't start? Is it just a black screen, or does it pop up with any kind of error? Is anything mentioned in the Reliability report?
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:10 AM   #33
the1stwasted
 
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Shelter View Post
Sorry but overclocking is not something you do by default, not on any hardware. Overclocking is driving hardware beyond it's rated specs. If you overclock you are taking a risk, and you must be prepared to accept the consequences of that risk. One of those consequences is things not working.

Overclocking does not make you an uber-elite PC enthusiast. Overclocking without knowing what you're doing is worse - it makes you a fool.

So the question is: "how do you define what it can do stably?" and the answer is: "you can't". A PC is made of many many different components, all of which must operate together to produce a working whole. Different programs stress different parts of your PC. Program A may stress your system busses more, program B your CPU, program C your memory and caches, program D your IO, and so on.

All it takes is one new program to come along and stress something more than anything else you've used before and - BOOM - trouble. And that's where "but it works with everything else!" comes from. It's not the programs fault that it doesn't work, the program is doing what it needs to do and the program works on non-overclocked systems.

Overclocking is about more than just heat and clock rates; it make totally innocent operations - like setting a register to zero - cause crashes and instabilities. See http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/...12/407562.aspx for more info.

So - if you're overclocking and it doesn't work, if you stop overclocking and it does work, what do you think the most likely cause of the problem is?

Most CPUs use the exact same core,(when the names match), the only diference is what the factory sets it to.

An AMD FX-4100 ("Zambezi") 3600 MHz has the exact same specs as the AMD FX-4170 ("Zambezi") 4200 MHz, its just that one was set higher, (or lower), at the factory, so OCing the 4100 to the same speed as the 4170 is not really OCing.

Do you really think they make a different core for every speed?

Most newer MBs, (like mine), have an automatic OCing function. The system will OC the CPU bit by bit and then test for stability, once the CPU becomes unstable, it will automaticaly reduce it until its stable again.

There are quite a few CPUs sold as dual core, 3 core, and Quad core, yet have more cores built in, but, the other cores are locked at the factory, certain mainboards come with core unlockers to reactivate the locked cores.

Last edited by the1stwasted: 03-28-2012 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:18 PM   #34
Jimmy Shelter
 
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Originally Posted by the1stwasted View Post
Most CPUs use the exact same core,(when the names match), the only diference is what the factory sets it to.
Yes, they have the same core. No, that's not the only difference. CPUs in the factory are tested to determine their appropriate rating and sold at that rating. If you're overclocking you're already pushing beyond a rating that has failed factory testing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overclo...al_correctness

Quote:
As an overclocked component operates outside of the manufacturer's recommended operating conditions, it may function incorrectly, leading to system instability. Another risk is silent data corruption by undetected errors. Such failures might never be correctly diagnosed and may instead be incorrectly attributed to software bugs in applications, device drivers, or the operating system. Overclocked use may permanently damage components enough to cause them to misbehave (even under normal operating conditions) without becoming totally unusable.
(My emphasis).

Instead of relying on blind faith in overclocking, why not just try it, huh?
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:41 PM   #35
PenGun
 
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I have OC'd every one of my machines since the Pentium I made for Doom.

They run just fine. You do of course need powerful cooling as the factory chip culls are based on a stock cooler. It's perfectly fine to OC any machine but you should have good, not average hardware, the PSU is especially important.

For example my stock i5 cooler ran the processor at about 55 centigrade in normal use, yes my mobo has a temperature display, and my Prolimatech cooler keeps the processor at under 30. My OC on this machine is limited by RAM and little else.

Superpi needs to run for 24 hours to prove your OC.

Last edited by PenGun: 03-28-2012 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:49 PM   #36
Jimmy Shelter
 
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I've never overclocked and never felt the need to; if it's fast enough then it's fast enough. PenGun does have the right of it though - it's not something you do by default and you do need to take adequate precautions (as well as know what you're doing) beforehand.

Also don't forget that clock speed is far from the only thing that determines performance.

Saying things like "I'm overclocked therefore my machine must be uber therefore everything must work well" is really not very clever.

Last edited by Jimmy Shelter: 03-28-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:01 AM   #37
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I'm with Jimmy here and don't see the point in over clocking either, but if it's something you want to do then by all means go for it.

I think the point is though that if you are having problems running a game and are over clocking the sensible thing to do would be to try the game without the over clock and see if the problem persists.

As for testing? Superpi needs to run for 24 hours to prove your PC can run Superpi for 24 hours would be more accurate.
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:25 AM   #38
the1stwasted
 
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Shelter View Post
Yes, they have the same core. No, that's not the only difference. CPUs in the factory are tested to determine their appropriate rating and sold at that rating. If you're overclocking you're already pushing beyond a rating that has failed factory testing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overclo...al_correctness


(My emphasis).

Instead of relying on blind faith in overclocking, why not just try it, huh?
1. They are still the exact same core, just underclocked, and its not blind faith, (I got that info from a design engineer BTW), and you can also find the info with minimal searching. They design the CPU for say 4.2 Ghz, They then produce a small amount for testing, if the CPU performs as expected, it then enters the production phase. When production starts, they then, depending on how many they need, clock them at 3.6, (or what ever the selected speed is), Ghz, and then, based on need, under clock the next batch even lower, and so on.

Neither AMD or Intel is going to make a different CPU for every available speed, that would cost millions, so instead they produce one CPU, set the multipiers according to what they want and then sell it. There is no diff what so ever between a 2.3 Ghz CPU and a 3.2 Ghz CPU with the same core name other than the Factory set speed and price.

If they did it your way then they would have hundreds of thousands of CPUs with different speeds, and they would need a small Army to test them!
Do you have any idea how many CPUs Intel and AMD produce in a day?

Testing each and every one for the max stable clock is simply not feasible. The most they do is random sampling from the line, and, or batch checks, basically about 2% of production at best. That is why sometimes brand new things do not work, if they tested them all, it would not happen.

Last year ASUS had a batch of MBs with bent CPU pins, approximatly 10,000 MBs were recalled.

I used to work at a Pickle canning factory, and the Pickles in the name brand jars were the exact same Pickles in the generic jars, the only difference was the price, I also worked at a meat packing plant and the same was true there.


2. I could not care less about ANYTHING Wiki says. Wiki is one of the most unreliable info sources there is, as ANYONE can edit it. I could log on to the Wiki site that talks about the Moon and add that it IS made of Cheese, post bogus facts and anything else I wanted and it would remain there until someone who cared enough changed it.

3. I have an AMD 1090T Black @ 3.2, and have ran it @ 4.2 with no problems whatsoever. My Radeon HD5970 is also OCed to 825 from 725, and no problems.

4. Manufacturers know that people are going to OC and therefore make sure that the CPUs can handle it to a certain degree, otherwise their customers will start buying from another supplier, (Intel to AMD /AMD to Intel), and, there is no way the company can tell if it was OCed or not, so any chip that fails while under the warranty period will be replaced, and I have seen this more times than I can count.

Why do you think all the companies make their own OC software?

Last edited by the1stwasted: 03-29-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:09 PM   #39
PenGun
 
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Originally Posted by Quietman68 View Post
I'm with Jimmy here and don't see the point in over clocking either, but if it's something you want to do then by all means go for it.

I think the point is though that if you are having problems running a game and are over clocking the sensible thing to do would be to try the game without the over clock and see if the problem persists.

As for testing? Superpi needs to run for 24 hours to prove your PC can run Superpi for 24 hours would be more accurate.
Indeed and any machine that can will be very stable. You don't even know what Superpi does do you?
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:33 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by PenGun View Post
Indeed and any machine that can will be very stable. You don't even know what Superpi does do you?
Yes I have tried it myself along with ones like prime95 to see how hot my i7 950 gets. It was going over 80c with the stock cooler after 10 minutes! I ended up getting an integrated liquid cooler and now it gets to 64c after 30 minutes of prime95. I can live with that!
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:20 AM   #41
Jimmy Shelter
 
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Originally Posted by the1stwasted View Post
I could not care less about ANYTHING Wiki says.
Do you care what this guy says?

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=335813

How many people do you think have really tested their overclocked systems? How many have just run cursory tests and decided that they're uber after such?

And finally, again with the suggestion: try reverting to factory clocks. If it fixes the problem it suggests a very high possibility that overclocking was the cause.
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:06 AM   #42
the1stwasted
 
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Shelter View Post
Do you care what this guy says?

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=335813

How many people do you think have really tested their overclocked systems? How many have just run cursory tests and decided that they're uber after such?

And finally, again with the suggestion: try reverting to factory clocks. If it fixes the problem it suggests a very high possibility that overclocking was the cause.

Don't really care about some random dude on the OCers net either. What are his qualifications?

Mine are as follows:

Been working with Computers since they became aval.

multiple certifications from: Microsoft, Comptia, Cisco, Linux, IBM, and a few others.

Own my own I.T. Business


Serious gamers/OCers always check for stability, as I did with mine when I OCed it to 4.2 Ghz, plus, as I also said, most new MBs come with auto OC fucntions that do it automaticaly as the system needs more power, if the user decides to activate the function.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/7...erclocker.html

Quote:
ASUS is one of the companies that has been working the hardest on creating automatic overclocking functions for their motherboards and with Intel's launch of Sandy Bridge it has raised the bar considerably
Quote:
Extreme Tuning is the advanced version of Fast Tuning, where the system will overclock the CPU via Fast Tuning, then continue to tune system performance till the top performance is reached. As this also goes into the step by step self tuning process, it will try to overclock the system till the OS crash or CPU begins to throttle, hence one OS crash event may be expected before the completion of the auto tuning process.


I'm sure there are some people that have no clue what they are doing and damage their systems due to it, but OCing is not a bad thing when done right.

If you look at many of the sites that rate new hardware, there is always a section on OCing, whether it is a CPU, Grafics card or Memory.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2396280,00.asp
Quote:

Intel Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition

Pros
Excellent all-around performance. Unlocked multiplier for simplified overclocking. Supports dual PCIe x16 video cards at full speed. Includes full range of Sandy Bridge features. Low power usage.

Quote:
This means, for example, that when Intel's Hyper-Threading technology is fully engaged, you have 12 processing threads at your disposal; given that the Core i7-3960X's base clock is 3.3GHz, you're looking at some serious performance just from that. Toss in version 2.0 of Intel's Turbo Boost technology from Sandy Bridge, which provides a speed supercharge whenever you're not maxing out your core usage, and you have a quick entrée to 3.9GHz—no overclocking required. (Though because the multiplier on the Core i7-3960X is unlocked, actual overclocking won't be much of a problem.)

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...echnology.html


Quote:
Intel has optimized Intel® Turbo Boost Technology1 to provide even more performance when needed on 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ processor based systems. Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 automatically allows processor cores to run faster than the base operating frequency if it's operating below power, current, and temperature specification limits.
As I said before. CPUs are desuigned to run faster than the rating they are sold at, and this software increases the speed to the higher speed the CPU was designed for.

My system runs at 2.3 Ghz, but I have included software that alows me to jump to 2.7 Ghz at the click of a Mouse button.

My MB also has the auto OC function.

Last edited by the1stwasted: 04-01-2012 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:06 AM   #43
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Regarding the Overclocking stupidity running rampant in this thread - guy who says CPUs are sold at their maximum frequency, you may want to look into the actual CPU binning process.
CPUs are first tested for functional cores. They are binned based on the number of functional cores as hex, quad, etc. This is why there was a big thing of people unlocking the fourth core on AMD tri-core CPUs, because some of them were binned as tri-core due to demand for lower priced hardware, but were capable as running with all four cores operational correctly.

Then, they're binned based on the frequency they can reach stably. They don't just test every 1MHz, but rather based on a few set points. Generally these points are spaced every 200MHz.

Finally, they decide if they're going to market this chip as a premium OC'ing chip or not, and lock the multipliers on non-OC'ing chips. This is why a premium is paid for the K series Core i5 and i7 CPUs, as they have unlocked multipliers.

TL;DR Jimmy Shelter is a dumb.

Now then, regarding this whole RAGE game, I agree that it's just outright dodgy and poor form for a once great developer. I expected more from iD but they went on to disappoint me like so many developers of old. The game just arbitrarily turns to trash, for instance I went, did the first mission, and then went outside. The game decided that I only get to see the outdoors area once before running at 4 FPS, even though it was running at 60FPS was I was going top speed through the wasteland on the way to the bandit's hideout.

It's really just a bunch of crap not worth tolerating for a poor mishmash of Borderlands and Fallout.
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