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Old 03-23-2012, 12:57 AM   #16
Gelda
 
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Actually by artifically raising your smithing skill you loose out on game levels so it pays to level the right way otherwise you cap out too soon and get get to level 65 in the game.....

So you could yes cheat and only you would know for sure or grind the right way and have peace of mind you did it the right way......

Meow....
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:06 AM   #17
Haldur
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by KaosPropeht View Post
Doesn't 'feel' as pure, though. The time and grinding spent, plus the idea that you did it entirely through in-game/in-world* mechanics (albeit through exploiting them) lends a sense of accomplishment to the task that you don't get through just using console-command for the same effect.
I actually see both ways as cheating, but it's a single player game, so if one way bothers you, don't do that of course. For me, both methods are equal. that said, I DID play one game like that, just to see what other people were talking about, and it just wasn't fun for me, mostly because at high levels, the game got boring.

Running around with maxed AC is not that fun (one of the reasons why I'm going the cloth/pure spell route in my current game). There's very little reason for my current character to select ANY perks for smithing.

Maybe there ought to be a mod that determines which perk you get randomly from all that is available (that's kind of inspired by the game Dungeons of Dredmor -- they give you the option of selecting your skills randomly, which can make the game significantly harder).
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:08 AM   #18
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i did alot of orcish in between and it goes alot faster
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:00 AM   #19
BensonTito
 
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I definitely approve of this change, smithing was too exploitable. I did use the exploit however; I made loads of leather armour and I was level 100 in no time. But only because it felt silly to not use it. Why spend ages doing something if you can do it quickly?
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:37 AM   #20
jlangley
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Chatter
If you smithed other things than daggers you would have leveled up more quickly

if you smith an item of high value you will shoot up a lot in smithing now. its like alchemy now.

But anyway, I kind of like the change (I'm already 100 smithing so I don't care right now, LOL), just like Alchemy works, it takes a very long time to level up

Luckily for me, my Smithing on my main is already at 100. It's about 79 on my current character.

Fortunately all my characters have 100 smithing already

transmute to turn all that iron ore into gold ore

I already dagger spammed my way up.

then i use the smelter and make ingots then the forge to make rings and amulets. For 140 bars of gold use 5bars of gold and get a level so 140 bars gets me 28 levels

****Doesn't 'feel' as pure, though****
Ok lmao, I have to say it...

WTF, when did this become RuneScape??

lol
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:40 PM   #21
KaosPropeht
 
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Originally Posted by Haldur View Post
I actually see both ways as cheating, but it's a single player game, so if one way bothers you, don't do that of course. For me, both methods are equal. that said, I DID play one game like that, just to see what other people were talking about, and it just wasn't fun for me, mostly because at high levels, the game got boring.

Running around with maxed AC is not that fun (one of the reasons why I'm going the cloth/pure spell route in my current game). There's very little reason for my current character to select ANY perks for smithing.
Heh. There's a segment of the powergamer demographic who can't seem to help themselves, and when they minmax their character to OP levels and get bored they blame the designers for having made it possible (through in-game means.)

There's also an interpretation of the background lore (regarding chim) that suggests messing with the console commands/cheats does fit into the gameworld... though only one canon character is known to have achieved that capability.

Last edited by KaosPropeht: 03-24-2012 at 12:40 PM. Reason: oops, broke quote tag
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:25 AM   #22
BardSkye
 
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OK, daggers are easy and cheap. But they're a financially loosing proposition. I find that making steel armor, and then steel plate armor curiasses to have the highest profit margin. Especially after improvement. Although, you'll have to do some serious running around to sell off a couple of dozen Legendary steel plates. The merchants run out of gold too fast! You'll be a rich cuss, though. 1.5 million gold for my main character.
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:06 PM   #23
giskarduk
 
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Actually dagger smithing was never cheat, that was how the game worked, now it works different and the new system is not nerfed, its just how the game works.

Too many people want to dictate how others enjoy a single player game and I think that is just wrong. But in the case of smithing, knowing there is a reason to smith better items is at the end of the day a big improvement to smithing.

Its not a cheat, its not nerfed, its just got more features than it used to have.
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:17 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giskarduk View Post
Its not a cheat, its not nerfed, its just got more features than it used to have.

"It's not a bug, it's a feature."

Where have I heard that before?
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:54 PM   #25
Shadowblade001
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobczes View Post
"It's not a bug, it's a feature."

Where have I heard that before?
Microsoft telephone support? "It's a really good 'feature'"

"NO, it's a pain is the aspidistra!"
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:00 PM   #26
Haldur
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobczes View Post
"It's not a bug, it's a feature."
Years ago, I worked as a programmer for a really unscrupulous company (they mistreated both their employees and their clients). If there was a bug that ended up in a release and it wasn't blatantly program-breaking, that's what we were told to say to the clients. The first time I heard that, I thought it was a joke. Eventually I figured out that they were not kidding.

Fortunately, I moved on to a company where I was actually able to hold on to a modicum of self-respect.
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #27
Shadowblade001
 
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Originally Posted by KaosPropeht View Post
Doesn't 'feel' as pure, though. The time and grinding spent, plus the idea that you did it entirely through in-game/in-world* mechanics (albeit through exploiting them) lends a sense of accomplishment to the task that you don't get through just using console-command for the same effect.
Yeah, I'd agree. In many games I've found a way of improving a skill, raising levels or gaining XP by doing something repeatedly and it doesn't feel like cheating, like using a cheat code would. It's practice and experience.

A world-class concert pianist practices at home alone. He doesn't just improve his skills while playing in front of a live audience. And that requires dedication to a tedious grind. He doesn't just play "doh, a deer, a female deer..." over and over and over agin. He has to challenge himself to improve through greater complexity.

This is my first run through Skyrim and I'm not doing Smithing so it doesn't matter, but I think the change is a good thing. Once you have achieved the ability to make Meisterwerk daggers, you are just really good at making ornate, exceptional quality daggers. No reason that you should have any skill at all in making swords, axes or armour. And with the diminishing returns, there's no real improvement in your skill at making daggers by repeatedly making daggers once you are a Master Daggersmith.

To improve your Smithing skill beyond making superb daggers, you have to learn to smelt larger quantities of quality ore, forge larger volumes of quality metal, shape and temper and polish larger and more ornate weapons and armour. Then you need to learn to work with different metals, making carbon steel instead of Iron, using Elven or Dwarvish mithril instead of fine steel, smelting and forging glass, oriculum (or whatever that Orcish material is called), adamantium and ebony, refining ebony into daedric etc. Then crafting delicate objects made from silver and gold and inlaying them with precious stones and gems and creating objects fit for high level enchanting.

You can't learn all that by making iron daggers over and over and over again. It's Smithing, not Blacksmithing. You don't just make iron horse shoes, nails and daggers. You have to become an Amourer, a swordsmith, a steel smith, an ebonysmith, a silversmith, goldsmith etc. All exceptionally complex and quite different skill sets.

BAH! All the way to 100 Master Level on iron daggers!

I don't mean to be diadactic, but it's Role-play, not Roll-play and every mechanic should have a logical in-game reason and the character should get meaningful experience to earn his perks.


Cheers

~

Last edited by Shadowblade001: 04-01-2012 at 02:41 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:53 PM   #28
zherok
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by BensonTito View Post
I definitely approve of this change, smithing was too exploitable. I did use the exploit however; I made loads of leather armour and I was level 100 in no time. But only because it felt silly to not use it. Why spend ages doing something if you can do it quickly?
Because metagaming smithing and enchanting diminishes the value of the rest of the game (well, loot, largely.) If you have access dragonbone/scale armor you're pretty close to being done with armor period.

And since it's never found, but easily crafted once you have the skill for it, you've essentially made everything else obsolete. The sooner you rush to get there, the sooner everything you find is enchanting/vendor fodder. What's the hurry?
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:12 AM   #29
giskarduk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobczes View Post
"It's not a bug, it's a feature."

Where have I heard that before?
Lol... well its not a bug and its not as cheat... it was literally how smithing worked. No big conspiracy involved, it just was.

Just like it just "is" right now with the changes.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:27 AM   #30
stoob
 
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Just by doing the make a dagger and make a hide helm for the smithy, my Smithing skill was over 50.

Unlike Alchemy... which takes the jarate.
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