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Old 04-04-2012, 02:14 AM   #1
Atealzebra
 
 
 
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Spartans are OP (Story/Rant/Question)

Hey guys, I was playing with my friend, in a little fun skirmish just a few hours ago. He was the Greeks, I was the Gauls. The unit sizes were scaled down a little, I outnumbered him by about 350. All of our units were G/G. I had many Chosen Swordsmen because, up close, they are generally godly, backed up by my General's cavalry unit (G/G), and 6 G/G foresters. Oh, and I had 3 G/G warbands

He has 2 onager units, 2 spartan units, about 6 heavy hoplites, and 3 heavy peltasts, as well as cavalry units. The battle starts, and I move my units in to the general position that I would. he attempts to take all of his cavalry to my right wing, so I intercept him with the warbands. Some casualties ensued, but overall I shredded his Cav.

My units marched up, and it was quickly apparent that I flanked him from every corner. My foresters were in range, and I had them begin to fire in to the spartans, knowing they would be the toughest to shock and rout. There were almost no casualties. I know he G/G'd them, but my archers were G/G'd, too. I gave up, and had them cease fire. All my units, at this point, surrounded him in a U-shape. I moved in, destroyed his siege unit support, and then had him completely surrounded. After some time of being still, I send each wing in to mop up some of the heavy hoplites. The peltasts quickly get mashed up in to the fray and die. But then come the Spartans. He turned them around to meet my forces at the back, and I began to volley fire arrows in to them.

They didn't even shake from that, so I mashed all my units in to EVERY LAST FLANK. The Gaelic soldiers outnumbered them greatly, and from all angles. He took them off Phalanx.

I took time to look at the little prediction. The spartans were being flayed, but it still said "Victory is certain." Frustrated, I move my general in and have him ready to rally. Keep in mind that fire arrows are raining on the Spartans.

Now, I'm not lying here, I got the unit numbers down to 5, and 10. They never fled. These Spartans were fighting to the last man, and it caused my men (And I had about 200 of them in the melee force left) to run. I even had one war crying just by, but it didn't help, at all. So my soldiers out and run, and his men begin to come back (As they sometimes do)

I took the unit off war cry, and had him run loops around the Spartans, to confuse them, give me time to pepper them. When my foresters ran out of ammo (6 units of them, keep in mind, against 15), I charged them in. Foresters, Cretans etc can generally handle themselves in a typical melee. Again, I encircled the fifteen spartans, and they whooped the Foresters in to retreating. I realized that as long as he had these g/g cheap s, there was nothing I could do, no matter how much my tactics outclassed his. No matter how many morale shocks I used, these spartans wouldn't run. And I know they didn't have any experience put in to them because they were leveling throughout the ordeal.

I guess the salient point behind making this was asking, what can I do to beat these damn guys? It's obvious tactics and typical hammer/anvils wont work, what do I do? PS, tried charging cavalry and Chosens in to their backs, hence the surrounding aspect. Didn't work. They hardly lost numbers.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #2
musicmarvel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atealzebra View Post
I guess the salient point behind making this was asking, what can I do to beat these damn guys? It's obvious tactics and typical hammer/anvils wont work, what do I do? PS, tried charging cavalry and Chosens in to their backs, hence the surrounding aspect. Didn't work. They hardly lost numbers.
I personally have never had that much of a problem against spartans, but I usually play as Rome and their infantry is (as I remember, I'll check tommorrow) much better than Gaulish infantry. As for beating the Spartans, did you spread your units into loose formation? Because the phalanx is strong as a single block, (to the front) but if they intentionaly broke, then they should be able to take melee from all directions decently-as well as you can while being surrounded anyway. Also sword weilding infantry (such as Thracian Mercenaries) need space to be effective, so put them into loose, attack from the front. Take a second unit, put them on loose, and attack from the back. Don't put too many units too close.

BTW: Don't use arrows on things like spartans or urban cohorts, they're too armored, only use armor-piercing stuff like pila or something like that. Set up a single player and test it to just see what works out for you if you haven't before.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:18 AM   #3
musicmarvel
 
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Alright, so here's the test set-up:
Time: midday
weather: calm
difficulty: very hard (strange things happen at this level, like cavalry charging straight through the front of a phalanx)
Settlement: none
terrain: British Grasslands
Armies: (All units have max weapons and armor)

Gaul (588 men)
____________________________________________
1 Barbarian Warlord
2 Chosen Swordsman
2 Foresters
2 Warbands

Greek Cities (160 men)
____________________________________________
2 Spartans

Now, this is why you need infantry with better strength and discipline than the Gauls, but still, I won after losing 357 men and was left with 2 'shaken' Foresters. The spartans had 7 (i think) men. To be honest, I'm surprised they routed at all, normally they fight to the death but I guess they weren't surrounded. If I can find a way to post the replay I will, but this is why you always have to think twice when facing Spartans.

BTW: This match was pretty bad and didn't quite illustrate these tactics, but I'be neveer played as Gaul, and didn't really use them to what is probably their full effect.

Last edited by musicmarvel: 06-22-2012 at 07:18 PM. Reason: bad wording
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:17 AM   #4
Mailbox_Bomber
 
 
 
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Spartans are just a pain. I wouldn't go as far to call them over powered because historically they were fairly over powered! But once you learn how to deal with them they become just a inconvienience, like elephants.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:38 PM   #5
Vater_Frost
 
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You should have known better than to try to fight Spartans with arrows

From Herodotus:
They also said to them that Persian arrows are so many that can cover the sun.
Listening to these words, a Spartan soldier named Dienikes answers coldly:
“It is better, we will under the shadow”.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:35 PM   #6
musicmarvel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vater_Frost View Post
From Herodotus:
They also said to them that Persian arrows are so many that can cover the sun.
Listening to these words, a Spartan soldier named Dienikes answers coldly:
“It is better, we will under the shadow”.
I love it when people come up with such perfectly suited, famous lines, because I am anything but creative.
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