4/26/2012 7.30a 239.5 mb and 7.30b 155.4 patches to 7.30 release

[T@F]

Originally Posted by carlh267

First off, the insults aren't appreciated or needed. Not once did I personally attack you in my post.

I never said sharks were OP, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE I HADN'T TRIED THEM YET. I simply said that the community should have tried different strategies before they went screaming to the forums after 20 minutes, crying "NERF NAO! OP! OP! OP!"

Little over an hour after the Sharken were released, Trendy released a patch that basically gimped them compared to their previous stats. Making major stat changes an hour after release because the community complains that their old builds does not lead to a enemy that is balanced in difficulty. More often than not it results in either a gimped enemy, or one that is still too powerful, and thus the cycle only repeats itself until the enemy is reasonably balanced or gimped to the point of being laughably easy.

Don't tell me that Trendy seriously put in a lot of thought in consideration into those Shark nerfs. They saw the community was whining that their builds didn't work, and made some major balance changes that they thought would make the community shut up. Changing major mechanics of an enemy class less than an hour after release isn't just absurd, its laughable. It destroys Trendy's credibility in terms of making balanced content because the community simply couldn't learn that they needed to change their builds to adapt for Sharken.

I'm all in favor of nerfing Sharken if they are OP. I am not in favor of how quickly Trendy nerfed them simply because the majority of the community didn't want to even TRY to adjust their builds to deal with them.

I'm not insulting you,just stating a fact your defending something you don't understand because you have not got that far yet,so it's you insulting us players who have seen for ourselves how broken they are in the game.

They are a stupid mob,many ppl hate them simple fact.
We all know trendy just adds numbers to things,that will never change anyway.
But still ppl like me solo and spend hours grinding and slightly advancing,then bam a single mob destroys all that hard work we worked at is stupid.
So its one step forward ten steps back.oh wait not even ten steps back grind to a halt more like.

Again no amount of setups would have fixed it,that's why they got the nerf stick so quick.
if the community thought it was ok then there would have been no complaining on the forums,well maybe a little but no way as much as it is now.

This is a game breaking dlc,no amount of nerfs are going to fix one mob moving your complete setup around.
Yes i'm ***** i did not buy this game and all the dlc for a cheap tactic like that.

If i knew this at the time i would have never bought the shards dlc,or the other dlc's.

in-fact I would have just stuck with the base game.

[carlh267]

Originally Posted by T@F

I'm not insulting you,just stating a fact your defending something you don't understand because you have not got that far yet,so it's you insulting us players who have seen for ourselves how broken they are in the game.

I understand it completely. People didn't adjust builds and immediately cried nerf. Whether or not the Sharken were OP or not is irrelevant. What matters is the vast majority of the community didn't even try to adjust builds to deal with new content and immediately cried for a nerf. As for me insulting players who have actually dealt with the content, I have to apologize for sounding condescending, because it certainly wasn't my intention.

Originally Posted by T@F

They are a stupid mob,many ppl hate them simple fact.

Uh, no. Sharken being stupid isn't a fact, its an opinion. Some people hate them because they think Sharken are stupid (like you, for instance), but most were probably only whining because they didn't put the time and effort into figuring out new builds.

Originally Posted by T@F

We all know trendy just adds numbers to things,that will never change anyway.

Changing numbers is how you balance enemies. How else would you change an enemy besides balancing its numbers aside from removing/adding entirely new game mechanics to it?

Originally Posted by T@F

But still ppl like me solo and spend hours grinding and slightly advancing,then bam a single mob destroys all that hard work we worked at is stupid.
So its one step forward ten steps back.oh wait not even ten steps back grind to a halt more like.

Same thing happened with Djinn, people whined, Djinn got nerfed, people still whined about being unable to progress... but then something weird happened. They tried new builds, and *gasp* they actually worked! If you don't want to put your own time and effort into figuring out how to play against new content, just wait until guides come out for it.

Originally Posted by T@F

Again no amount of setups would have fixed it,that's why they got the nerf stick so quick.
if the community thought it was ok then there would have been no complaining on the forums,well maybe a little but no way as much as it is now.

Once again, opinion =/= fact. Just because you and many others didn't find a solution to the Sharken problem before they got nerfed doesn't mean there WASN'T one.

Of course there were many who thought the Sharken were unbalanced. But the key word there is they THOUGHT they were unbalanced. They didn't bother trying to adjust builds to deal with enemies that charge through physical defenses, and *shocker*, they got destroyed. Then they started swarming to the forums, immediately complaining about the OP-ness of sharken and demanding an instant nerf. Its not fair criticism, its not constructive and it definitely doesn't lead to class balance.

Originally Posted by T@F

This is a game breaking dlc,no amount of nerfs are going to fix one mob moving your complete setup around.
Yes i'm ***** i did not buy this game and all the dlc for a cheap tactic like that.

If i knew this at the time i would have never bought the shards dlc,or the other dlc's.

in-fact I would have just stuck with the base game.

Once again, opinion, opinion, opinion. You don't know that Sharken cannot be balanced. If you don't feel like the Sharken are balanced, then its your decision to play against them or not.

[T@F]

Originally Posted by carlh267

I understand it completely. People didn't adjust builds and immediately cried nerf. Whether or not the Sharken were OP or not is irrelevant. What matters is the vast majority of the community didn't even try to adjust builds to deal with new content and immediately cried for a nerf. As for me insulting players who have actually dealt with the content, I have to apologize for sounding condescending, because it certainly wasn't my intention.

Fair enough.
But still it only takes a few mins to see how overpowered they are before the nerf.

Uh, no. Sharken being stupid isn't a fact, its an opinion. Some people hate them because they think Sharken are stupid (like you, for instance), but most were probably only whining because they didn't put the time and effort into figuring out new builds.

Trust me i tried many ways and still got owned,the nerfs now made it manageable but still lvl 15+ they still have sick health and the odd one is still able to get through your defence and screw it all up.

Changing numbers is how you balance enemies. How else would you change an enemy besides balancing its numbers aside from removing/adding entirely new game mechanics to it?

There is a difference to changing numbers for balance,than just adding numbers for the sake of it.trendy always seems to add numbers for the sake of it.
Why do you think in the past we had so many balance patches for the same mobs.

Same thing happened with Djinn, people whined, Djinn got nerfed, people still whined about being unable to progress... but then something weird happened. They tried new builds, and *gasp* they actually worked! If you don't want to put your own time and effort into figuring out how to play against new content, just wait until guides come out for it.

I did not wine on the djinn i agree i did not like them taking away one base but it was not an instant end game.well it wasn't after the nerf.i could lived with it,the shark how ever can move a cluttered up area causing end game,you cannot replace the towers until after the wave as well if on a different char.
It is still game breaking cheap tactics no matter how much they nerf them imo.

Once again, opinion =/= fact. Just because you and many others didn't find a solution to the Sharken problem before they got nerfed doesn't mean there WASN'T one.

Maybe maybe not but it was impossible before the nerf anyway even ppl with top end gear still could not do it even on earlier lvls,but still it is a tower defence game,whats the point in setting up our defences when a mob can move it all over the place.

Of course there were many who thought the Sharken were unbalanced. But the key word there is they THOUGHT they were unbalanced. They didn't bother trying to adjust builds to deal with enemies that charge through physical defenses, and *shocker*, they got destroyed. Then they started swarming to the forums, immediately complaining about the OP-ness of sharken and demanding an instant nerf. Its not fair criticism, its not constructive and it definitely doesn't lead to class balance.

No thought about it,they was way op when they first came out,like i said until later waves you get to see there true op.
As for balance,i can see trendy taking months to get them right,it's not going to be an easy task for them.

Once again, opinion, opinion, opinion. You don't know that Sharken cannot be balanced. If you don't feel like the Sharken are balanced, then its your decision to play against them or not.

Moving all our hard work,how can you balance that?thats not an opinion thats a fact.
Yes you can try and prevent them from moving the towers,but like i said in later waves one or two will always get through when you have 30+ ogres in one wave.
Once they got through it's game over.
spending many hours to get to them later waves,just for one mob to screw it all up can be demoralizing.
That alone can cause ppl to rage quit.

Also what about playing online,now ppl are going to get kicked more often because of this.

[Stg]

Originally Posted by carlh267

I understand it completely. People didn't adjust builds and immediately cried nerf. Whether or not the Sharken were OP or not is irrelevant. What matters is the vast majority of the community didn't even try to adjust builds to deal with new content and immediately cried for a nerf. As for me insulting players who have actually dealt with the content, I have to apologize for sounding condescending, because it certainly wasn't my intention.

You don't know what the vast majority did because you weren't in the vast majority of the games once the DLC was released. Sure, some people probably immediately ran to the forums, but it doesn't take even five minutes to build a new tower or trap to see how well it holds up against the new enemies. The simple fact is the Sharken walked over everything. They attacked too fast for anything less than a 3k tower stat build to stop which resulted in the vast majority being unable to deal with the large amount of Sharken spawns.

Originally Posted by carlh267

Same thing happened with Djinn, people whined, Djinn got nerfed, people still whined about being unable to progress... but then something weird happened. They tried new builds, and *gasp* they actually worked! If you don't want to put your own time and effort into figuring out how to play against new content, just wait until guides come out for it.

No, people were unable to progress until the nerf and those who still complained even after the nerf are the ones who were barely able to beat wave 2 on NM Spires. Those people were unable to progress. For me, I was able to solo to wave 25+ before the Djinn, but once they arrived, I couldn't survive past wave 5. When they were nerfed, I was only able to survive up to wave 12 or 13 before I was overrun by the boosted enemies.

Originally Posted by carlh267

Just because you and many others didn't find a solution to the Sharken problem before they got nerfed doesn't mean there WASN'T one.

I've friends with over 2800 tower stats and they were being overrun by Sharken pre-nerf. If someone with unattainable top-notch gear struggles against a new enemy, then everyone below them (the vast majority) are pretty much screwed.

Originally Posted by carlh267

Of course there were many who thought the Sharken were unbalanced. But the key word there is they THOUGHT they were unbalanced. They didn't bother trying to adjust builds to deal with enemies that charge through physical defenses, and *shocker*, they got destroyed. Then they started swarming to the forums, immediately complaining about the OP-ness of sharken and demanding an instant nerf. Its not fair criticism, its not constructive and it definitely doesn't lead to class balance.

If you spent half the time playing the game as you do typing, you probably wouldn't be trying to defend such a poor design. An enemy that caused towers to glitch and came in countless droves shows how little Trendy tests their own game as well as how little you actually know about Sharken pre-nerf. With my 1700 tower stat Squire, I was back to being unable to complete wave 5 on NM HC MM Survival again; which at 1700 stats is flat out ridiculous to be knocked out of an entire game mode because of one enemy (moreover it was due to Trendy's ineptitude for testing and quality control).

[oldbrokenlink]

stg nightmare is still in development and you are getting early beta copy. if you do not want to be an unpaid beta tester, simply don't play nightmare until it's completed!