cornering techniques

HL2Titanic · 04-29-2012, 07:07 AM

I've always wondered about whats the best way to make 90 degree corners. Which method is best, are there any issues with a particular method.

I've been running into a "too much brush geometry" error on my map, despite being below the max brush count limit, and Im wondering if this will help.

See the screen captures below. The top example is how many of my corners are now. The middle example, using 45 degree faces, is how I think I would like to modify all my corners. The bottom example is another method.

I think the 45 degree seems best, but Im not sure how the engine treats it.

Note: I am nodrawing the faces that cant be seen by the player in hopes that will also help.

Opinions and suggestions welcome

Thanks,

Punishment · 04-29-2012, 07:13 AM

I'm pretty sure that VBSP merges all brushes that share a common edge, (so I think) it will treat all three of those situations exactly the same.

Karlos_Modder · 04-29-2012, 08:11 AM

I find your second option to be the best. Eliminates another face with texture on it.
AFAIK if you look at your first example, even if you enable wireframe during the game it will show that one side of the corner is a single face i think its still two seperate faces in the bsp. Apply a differnt texture to the corner brush and see if wireframe mode still treats one side of the corner as a single face.

HL2Titanic · 04-29-2012, 02:07 PM

I forgot about mat_wireframe. So I tested this using a sample map using only world brushes, I did the test twice. Once with different textures on each wall, and the other, with the same textures. The results in both tests were the same.

I used mat_wireframe 2 and highlighted the lines (vertices?) on the test walls.

It looks like example 2 - using 45 degree faces - would be best. Unless Im mis-interpreting the wireframe?

(PS: those lines are separating vertices right?)

Example 1 (see the first example on my original post): 24 vertices

Example 2 (see the second example on my original post): 18 vertices

Example 3 (see the third example on my original post): 20 (+4) vertices*

*Example 3's first wall wasnt next to another window wall so the wall only has 2 vertices whereas if it was next to a window wall it would have had 6, so that doesnt affect the test.

StreetStrider · 04-30-2012, 06:37 AM

The second one is the most efficient on my point. For now im using this method too. It has two advantages:
1. less actions when texturing corner sides (and more obvious)
2. less triangles in both sides

But there is also one small disadvantage:
1. When you want to resize one of the sides, the 45-degree will transgress.
But i know that even this is not a problem for VBSP (it do not cares), that is why it ignores "inner" surfaces. At output we will get only two perfect walls

But sometimes I remake such angles: I resize one of the walls, then chop ~45-angle from it, resize it again and create 45-angle.

Punishment · 04-30-2012, 09:11 AM

If you use 45 degree angles as in StreetStrider's example, you can use the vertex tool to resize them as needed and avoid having the issue illustrated in the second image.

HL2Titanic · 05-03-2012, 04:28 AM

Yea I always use the vert tool to resize these brushes.

Been modifying corners on my map for the last several days and nodrawing the faces that arent visible (actually no drawed the whole map and now retexturing) since i didnt have good textures on,and doing this allows me to find my corners easier (7600 brushes in the map) also allowed me to find many places where i had overlapping brushes.

About a third of the way done now, hopefully it pays off.

04-29-2012, 07:07 AM	#1
HL2Titanic Join Date: Feb 2012 Reputation: 0 Posts: 17	cornering techniques I've always wondered about whats the best way to make 90 degree corners. Which method is best, are there any issues with a particular method. I've been running into a "too much brush geometry" error on my map, despite being below the max brush count limit, and Im wondering if this will help. See the screen captures below. The top example is how many of my corners are now. The middle example, using 45 degree faces, is how I think I would like to modify all my corners. The bottom example is another method. I think the 45 degree seems best, but Im not sure how the engine treats it. Note: I am nodrawing the faces that cant be seen by the player in hopes that will also help. Opinions and suggestions welcome Thanks,

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04-29-2012, 07:13 AM	#2
Punishment Join Date: Feb 2008 Reputation: 271 Posts: 4,292	I'm pretty sure that VBSP merges all brushes that share a common edge, (so I think) it will treat all three of those situations exactly the same.

04-29-2012, 08:11 AM	#3
Karlos_Modder Join Date: May 2007 Reputation: 7 Posts: 748	I find your second option to be the best. Eliminates another face with texture on it. AFAIK if you look at your first example, even if you enable wireframe during the game it will show that one side of the corner is a single face i think its still two seperate faces in the bsp. Apply a differnt texture to the corner brush and see if wireframe mode still treats one side of the corner as a single face.

04-29-2012, 02:07 PM	#4
HL2Titanic Join Date: Feb 2012 Reputation: 0 Posts: 17	I forgot about mat_wireframe. So I tested this using a sample map using only world brushes, I did the test twice. Once with different textures on each wall, and the other, with the same textures. The results in both tests were the same. I used mat_wireframe 2 and highlighted the lines (vertices?) on the test walls. It looks like example 2 - using 45 degree faces - would be best. Unless Im mis-interpreting the wireframe? (PS: those lines are separating vertices right?) Example 1 (see the first example on my original post): 24 vertices Example 2 (see the second example on my original post): 18 vertices Example 3 (see the third example on my original post): 20 (+4) vertices* *Example 3's first wall wasnt next to another window wall so the wall only has 2 vertices whereas if it was next to a window wall it would have had 6, so that doesnt affect the test.

04-30-2012, 06:37 AM	#5
StreetStrider Join Date: May 2011 Reputation: 0 Posts: 54	The second one is the most efficient on my point. For now im using this method too. It has two advantages: 1. less actions when texturing corner sides (and more obvious) 2. less triangles in both sides But there is also one small disadvantage: 1. When you want to resize one of the sides, the 45-degree will transgress. But i know that even this is not a problem for VBSP (it do not cares), that is why it ignores "inner" surfaces. At output we will get only two perfect walls But sometimes I remake such angles: I resize one of the walls, then chop ~45-angle from it, resize it again and create 45-angle.

04-30-2012, 09:11 AM	#6
Punishment Join Date: Feb 2008 Reputation: 271 Posts: 4,292	If you use 45 degree angles as in StreetStrider's example, you can use the vertex tool to resize them as needed and avoid having the issue illustrated in the second image.

05-03-2012, 04:28 AM	#7
HL2Titanic Join Date: Feb 2012 Reputation: 0 Posts: 17	Yea I always use the vert tool to resize these brushes. Been modifying corners on my map for the last several days and nodrawing the faces that arent visible (actually no drawed the whole map and now retexturing) since i didnt have good textures on,and doing this allows me to find my corners easier (7600 brushes in the map) also allowed me to find many places where i had overlapping brushes. About a third of the way done now, hopefully it pays off.