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Old 05-01-2012, 10:05 PM   #1
Griimm
 
 
 
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{HELP} Pyro: General.

Alright, so a lot of people think that the Pyro class is extremely underpowered, but I think that the issue with the Pyro is that it does a lot against people who make a lot of mistakes, and almost nothing against people who do not make any mistakes. Apparently, this is not the case? Please explain some things to me.

1. What should I be doing in the life of a Pyro? Is the Pyro truely an offensive class, or is it more support oriented? I feel like I should be stopping the opponent from advancing by setting them on fire and airblasting them back near where they came from. I feel I should do this over killing them. Am I right?

2. Where should Pyros usually go, what paths should they take? How does this affect their goals, or completing their goals? I get that you should usually flank, but when you can't, what do you do?

3. Should you always kill someone if you get the chance, despite it being a risk? How important are you to the team? If you die, will you be missed?

Thanks in advance to those who can help.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:14 PM   #2
Rologton
 
 
 
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Quite frankly in a Pub, nobody is particularly important. So lets consider this in a Highlander mindset.

The role of the Pyro is not so much defensive, but very protective. A good HL Pyro will stick with his Medic and jump to his Engie to protect them from the enemy Spy and, most importantly, reflecting projectiles coming towards them. Kill Scouts trying to make a pick, lock down Soldier's rocket launchers and force them to go Shotgun, which protects your team from the explosive radius, keep Snipers head's down with your flaregun if you have it equiped, take out the other Pyro with your Shotgun if you have that. Offensive wise, you can be very good at taking out single targets, but you're pretty useless against a group unless you get behind them and take out the straglers. Always flank and take side paths if you're not with your team. Your mobility is kinda so you have to take your time and plan ahead. Use your airblast to break contact if need be. In HL, the Pyro can be very missed if he dies because he's so key in protecting the Medic and Engie. Kill someone if you can, unless it puts your Medic at risk. He is your #1 priority, always.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:26 PM   #3
augbog
 
 
 
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Also don't forget that Pyros are one of the only classes that can disable an uber. Try to juggle the medic and ruin the uber as much as possible. Even if you die, stalling an uber is really helpful to the team and the enemy medic has to work and get that uber all over again. But definitely listen to Rologton's post as that is what they do in the competitive scene.

As for directly answering your questions:

1. What should I be doing in the life of a Pyro? Is the Pyro truely an offensive class, or is it more support oriented? I feel like I should be stopping the opponent from advancing by setting them on fire and airblasting them back near where they came from. I feel I should do this over killing them. Am I right?

I feel like nowadays Pyro is better of support-oriented. You can go guns blazing but you are REALLY useful to the team by just reflecting rockets, finding spies, etc. Of course, if you get the chance to kill, do it if you think you can survive in the end. If you can't, only if its for a good pick (a medic for example)

2. Where should Pyros usually go, what paths should they take? How does this affect their goals, or completing their goals? I get that you should usually flank, but when you can't, what do you do?

Flanking is definitely the course of action if you want kills and its especially good if you're using the backburner. Try to go pathways where the quarters are nice and tight so its hard for the enemy to run away or you can just airblast them against a wall and keep them at bay. If you CAN'T flank, stick with your team.

3. Should you always kill someone if you get the chance, despite it being a risk? How important are you to the team? If you die, will you be missed?

Like I said it depends on the pick. I would arguably say if you get a chance to kill the medic or one of the big hard hitters like the demoman, soldier, or heavy it'd be worth going in for the kill even if its not a 100% chance of survival. Definitely don't go chasing a spy or a scout if you think you can't make it back. Their primary goal is to distract and screw with you.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:07 PM   #4
Charro
 
 
 
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1 and 2. In Pubs, Kill what you can, aproach flanking, and taking cover, killing people helps your team by slowing down the other one, Pyro IS indeed an offensive class but also very support oriented, kill what you can by yourself, and stick with your team when pushing, deflecting spam, and igniting the other team really help by screwing their aim, driving the attention to a single target (like if you manage to flare snipe their medic), you're hindering their offensive power by a lot since you're not only dealing mini-crit damage to them with splash, but also the other team is forced to rely on hitscan and precise aiming to do any damage, also spy check often when everyone is attacking, Spy is a defense breaker, it does the same job as you in this kind of situations but in a different way (you're basically an offense breaker), so try to not let him accomplish it

3- In offense, never risk your life unless your targets are about to kill a big part of your team (catch a Medic/Heavy combo from behind, or a Medic kritzing a Demoman, kill Pyros pushing your ubered Medic), your team can survive without you, specially if you killed part of their offense, so dying is only worth in that kind of situations

In defense however, missing a Pyro during an Uber/Kritzkrieg can cost you the match, so keep yourself behind, advance if you want, but not too much
It all depends in the situation of course, being agressive in defense is also pretty viable, stopping their offense from the root, just don't go 'too agressive' and keep doing your job, never stay in the front lines for too long
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:32 PM   #5
Dabced
 
 
 
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Press W
Mouse1
Win
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:04 AM   #6
Griimm
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabced View Post
Press W
Mouse1
Win
You have undoubtedly provided the most help for me so far.

(If there was a -rep, I would use it right about now. )

Last edited by Griimm: 05-02-2012 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:43 AM   #7
kiriona
 
 
 
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Given the possible uses of airblasting and the detonator I'm actually surprised pyro doesn't get used more in 6v6. Probably not enough mobility to get to mid quickly but I imagine he'd be useful everywhere else.

Tips so far are pretty good. It's worth remembering that every class except spy and possibly sniper can and will outdamage you in close range, so you probably don't want to get caught in 1v1s. Setting people on fire is psychologically effective for getting them to retreat (esp. scouts and other relatively low health classes), but you'll probably die in the process if they're competent; play basically as a scout who's traded mobility and burst damage for airblast and you'll have the right idea....

(lol, 12 hours on pyro trying to give advice to person who's been in tf2 longer than me :<)
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:25 AM   #8
Bew
 
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Try to follow a good soldier, demo or heavy around and see if that fits you. I found this to be a pretty fly combo, because enemies get finished off really quickly if you work together and you can protect each other really well.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:17 AM   #9
Stric_Matic
 
 
 
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Pyro's supposed to be the least ''direct'' of the straight-up-combat classes (compared to the Scout, Soldier, Heavy or Demo) and on offense he's more of a CQC ambusher and offensive support kinda guy.

Like others said, you have to know your maps very well, especially all the possible alternate flanking routes and tight spaces perfect for an ambush. Accept that some maps are pretty bad for Pyros so only use the class when you need to or if you're playing HL.

The best advice offered is that he only works on his own IF you can flank and surprise the enemy effectively, focusing on stragglers and people who are distracted or make mistakes. If you find yourself up against an organized team that sticks together and covers each other well, the Pyro can be pretty terrible if trying to attack on his own - he simply lack the firepower, mobility and toughness to put a dent into a group of overhealed enemies backed up by a Medic. Not to mention that his limited effective range means you die well before you can effectively kill people if they spot your approach.

Long story short, if you find that the lone-ranger ambush approach isn't working, definitely stick to the rest of your team as a kind of offensive support, flaring enemies, deflecting projectiles, protecting your Medic, only breaking off and trying to flank when you feel like your teammates have distracted the enemy. Like suggested, Pyro can work well with a competent Soldier or Demo, especially if there's also a friendly Medic in the mix.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:30 AM   #10
fat guy ina box
 
 
 
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The pyro is hands down the best spychecker, so you should always be spychecking. If there's an engy on your team you may want to stay close to him and spycheck with a homewrecker equipped. If you don't have the chance to kill an enemy just set them on fire, airblast them, or both. Don't ever use the phlog. It is a crutch for people who are resigned to playing W+M1 pyro. Stock or degreaser are generally considered to be the best flamethrowers.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:23 PM   #11
Dabced
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griimm View Post
You have undoubtedly provided the most help for me so far.

(If there was a -rep, I would use it right about now. )
Relax, it was a joke I'm not the best with Pyro, but maybe I can give you a few tips. I'd say it's purely offensive, but you need to know what to do with it. You can't just run from long range with the flamethrower and try to flame the opponent, thos obviously gets you killed. Find good places to do surprise attacks, the art of surprise is Pyro's best tool.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:00 AM   #12
A mars reject
 
 
 
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When it comes to flanking and surprise, try to get the hang of Flare-jumping with the Detonator. It opens up all sorts of extra routes that the enemy won't be expecting you to be able to approach from (like in Gold Rush 1 on defense, you can hop up into the right hand attics and work on any Engies trying to get in close).
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bew View Post
Try to follow a good soldier, demo or heavy around and see if that fits you. I found this to be a pretty fly combo, because enemies get finished off really quickly if you work together and you can protect each other really well.
It's actually really frustrating to play against the soldier+pyro combo. Can't go soldier because the pyro will reflect your rockets while the soldier kills you, and scout vs soldier is hard enough as it is without a pyro constricting your movement. Pretty much the only option, assuming you have no useful teammates, is to go demo but even that kinda sucks.
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