VAC in my opinion is unfair and illogical

[GDL]

Originally Posted by sniperkiller266

Unfair as it is that Steam rules I was banned from MW2 MP Steam will never tell you why!

Then why agree to them in the first place?

[Slytor.slinal]

Originally Posted by Anarchisteve

I asked Burton that question just a couple of days ago. His response was that Blizzard tried to do it and failed, the courts deemed it acceptable for cheat developers to do what they do and all Blizzard can do is deal with the people they catch using them.

So you literally telling me developing hacks + profiting is legal to an extent?

edit: also curious if its possible to work for Steam/valve as a subcontractor that reverse engineers all the VIP/unknown to public/paid cheats so it actually makes valve easier to catch, identify and form anti-cheat more often and more broad.

[Nekomancer]

Yes, since that does not necessarily break laws. Keep in mind that an EULA is not a law.

[Slytor.slinal]

Yes but it's an agreement and if you break the agreement (disagree) you are vulnerable, and in a position to be sued if i'm correct

[Anarchisteve]

Originally Posted by Slytor.slinal

So you literally telling me developing hacks + profiting is legal to an extent?

That is basically the gist of the court decision. Worth reading.

Originally Posted by Slytor.slinal

edit: also curious if its possible to work for Steam/valve as a subcontractor that reverse engineers all the VIP/unknown to public/paid cheats so it actually makes valve easier to catch, identify and form anti-cheat more often and more broad.

Valve have their own anti-cheat department. I doubt they subcontract out any of it.

[Slytor.slinal]

Originally Posted by Anarchisteve

Valve have their own anti-cheat department. I doubt they subcontract out any of it.

yeah i know, just curious though worth asking while at it. Maybe not a subcontractor, could be via job employment,but could they pick up a highly sophisticated skilled people over the air, but may not have graduated in the required criteria however have equivalence prerequisites, which have advanced skill and knowledge.

[crunchyfrog555]

Originally Posted by Slytor.slinal

So you literally telling me developing hacks + profiting is legal to an extent?

edit: also curious if its possible to work for Steam/valve as a subcontractor that reverse engineers all the VIP/unknown to public/paid cheats so it actually makes valve easier to catch, identify and form anti-cheat more often and more broad.

It's not illegal. Of course, it would contravene your EULA, which would leave you open to losing game access (partially or wholly) or maybe even whole account.

And that account WOULD be legally binding, because you agreed to the terms.

It would be a ridiculous waste to subcontract as you say. For the outlay, the success rate would be prohibitive (too much outlay in staff, resources, and money for little result). Some have tried similar things in the computer industry before. I remember a number of situations like this in my computer department days around 25 years ago.

Of course, there is the other major problem that when you sub-contract, you defeat the object a little bit, as you're loosening your security a little in doing so.

It's rather like policing. There are a number of people I've met through my time in (local) politics that would always go on about "pro-active" policing - going after criminals by trying to PREVENT crime before it happened.

It might come as a surprise to you that the costs involved (as some forces have tried in, here in England over the years) are HUGE, and the results? There has never been any evidence a single crime was prevented, although it's hard to prove some of that point in entirety. But, the fact is, a massive pro-active action costs a huge amount, and yet in all cases, crime figures altered not in the slightest.

Sorry if that's a poor analogy by the way, but I guess you'll get the gist.

[Slytor.slinal]

I wouldn't even mind volunteering.

[Karne123]

If you are responsible, you won't get your account "hacked". Only the foolish and irresponsible get their accounts stolen.

Put Steam Guard on, and relax.

Don't give out your username/password, dont log-into phishing sites, dont get keyloggers and the like on your PC. Better yet, don't use the PC you game on for internet browsing... use some other PC for that.

[_Budweiser_]

...someone manages to hack it (no matter how careful and responsible you are) then it is the innocent person who gets punnished

I'm not quite sure what your argument is. To my knowledge, no Steam account (The actual SSA accounts, not the forums etc.) has ever been hacked. Valve take their server security extremely seriously.

"Innocent" people are at least guilty of not aqcepting ful;l responsibility and acting accordingly, since the only way for anyoone to access anyone else's account is if the account holder has been careless with their login credentials or email privacy.
It may be unfortunate and certainly a shame, but the terms and conditions and notice of respponibility is laid out clearly for all Steam subscribers. The best case is that such "victims" will be hopefully a little more savvy with their account details in future.

[VALVe]not helping enough to justify all the innocent people who may have gotten their accounts banned because someone managed to access it

Valve have outlined tips and warnings as well as general recommendations to help rpevent against scams, phioshing and attempts to steal login credentials. They clearly display the terms, conditions and extent of the agreements as well as how ones account is affected by VAC. They implemented "Steam Guard" and have options for not storing account details on a public machine and have acted swiftly in response to requests to lock fraudulently accessed accounts.

What more should they do?
There's no way at all it could ever be reasonable to consider Valve have any claim or responsibility over your own actions and your own account security practices. How are they to stop you from handing over your password to the next person that asks for it?
The main point here is the word "responsibility". In the SSA it very clearly states that "You are responsible for your own account activbity" - If you do not accept that responsibility, you should never click the "Accept" button.

It's a bit late in the day trying to complain about something that you had already agreed that you had no objection to.

Yes but it's an agreement and if you break the agreement (disagree) you are vulnerable, and in a position to be sued if i'm correct

No.
If you clicked the "Agree" button, you have accepted the contract and are bound by it - if you wish to terminate the agreement, you are entitiled to do so by closing the account and informing Steam Support This is your right.
If you "disagree" with the contract, then, obviously, you should not have clicked the "agree" button, since, quite logically "agree" means "agree" not the antonym, "disagree".
There is NO WAY you can be sued for not-clicking the "Agree" button, or for clicking the "Agree" button.

Breaking the agreement is a breach of contract, this could result in legal action, but Valve at their discretion can simply disable the account or whatever they deem reasonable according to the nature of the breach. More detils are outlined in the SSA notes.
If you did not "Agree", (by clicking the "Agree" button) you have not accepted the contract, and are not bound by it. You cannot be sued for this in any way, by anyone.

[crunchyfrog555]

Well pointed out there, Budweiser.

[DocHouse]

Originally Posted by sniperkiller266

You can say what ever you want Steam will never change it

People will just flame at you .

Unfair as it is that Steam rules I was banned from MW2 MP Steam will never tell you why!

Yeah, it does!!
Answer: you cheated. period.

And well, about suing cheat makers, developing and selling cheats is legal in many countries. Plus, in those which is illegal they could just sell "pens" and give away the cheats "for free" with the pens, which is legal.
And the sole act of developing them is not illegal.

And no, breaking the SSA is not illegal. If you develop cheats they could just terminate the contract, nothing else.

[Blue Thunder]

1: Use different password on steam and email.
2: Enable Steam guard.
3: Don't be a fool (aka "OLOLOLZ free gamez, entre yar pazz pl0x" kind of sites)
4: ???
5: PROFIT!!!

[TIHb]

Sorry for a long post, too much time waiting for account activation. One more reason to hate steam. Anyway I remembered that I have an old one, so here I am.


I see you all are so smart... and your advices are so good. Thanks I laughed a lot. Just read it.

Advice of the week:

don't use the PC you game on for internet browsing

Really? Do you think everybody have 20 PCs in their homes? I have only 1. Actually we have 4 for family but only 1 is mine and there are many families in the world that have only 1 at all.

The next one is good too:

Thus, if innocent person got his/her account hacked, innocent person is innocent idiot.

Nice... I knew a man, not personally. I was helping him restore his hijacked email account. He is professor in the university, an old man that knows 19 languages but not very comfortable with computers. He just used the same password for all accounts and inserted it on some buggy site that was then hacked. What an idiot!!! You've got a point, right? If not, you can't be helped...

If you are VAC-banned, you do not lose access to your account, you just can't play on VAC-secured servers in game where you banned, that's all.

Is it all? For some player that plays in a team reputation means more than a game itself. Who will believe you after "bans on record" massage?

I should have also mentioned that even if you do receive a VAC ban, it's not the end of the world for that game's online play - just use a non-VAC secured server.

The same as previous... but can you show me at least 1 good server without VAC in my region? People here thinks it will protect form cheating but it won't, there are tons of cheaters over there and you can't play without server admin anyway...

If you clicked the "Agree" button, you have accepted the contract and are bound by it - if you wish to terminate the agreement, you are entitiled to do so by closing the account and informing Steam Support This is your right.
If you "disagree" with the contract, then, obviously, you should not have clicked the "agree" button, since, quite logically "agree" means "agree" not the antonym, "disagree".

My god... another smart guy. Yes I agree, because I have already bought a game, paid money and nobody asked me to read the agreement before I paid! Will valve give me my money back if I disagree? NO! So what's a point?

You have nothing to fear of getting banned unless you are incompetent at maintaining a good security on your computer. This means having a strong anti-virus program, run daily scans, do not go on illegal websites to obtain illegal materials, and just in general be safe on the internet.

I doubt virus can cause VAC ban but anyway... what it have in common? I like my free anti-virus and I love doing stupid things, but I paid for the game so why do I must bother?

Account theft can be easily faked. (Simulate an account thief with the use of proxies and VPNs)

Seriously? We are talking about on-line playing where ping is very important, so you think there is tons of easily accessible fast proxies? Show me 1...

You can't go down the "i was hacked, i didn't cheat!" route because all you need to do is either use a proxy to connect or swap accounts with someone across the world and cheat on each others account! It would LOOK like a hijack but it was just two cheaters cheating.

VAC ban applies in a week or two, or even more... So the massage of the cheater will be something like - "Hey disban me because I was hijacked... 20 times...". You make me laugh people.

Yes, VAC will punish people who purchase cheats. But, no-one is sitting them down and forcing them to actually purchase them! If no-one purchases the cheats, no-one will be funding the cheat makers and we wouldn't NEED VAC or anti-cheat software.

Purchase cheats? OMG what are you talking about?! Go google you'll find tons of that crap for free.

If someone gets banned and KNOWS they didn't cheat, they are free to contact Valve who will look into it, if it's an error it gets removed.

aha... have you tried?

And about me, I was banned, I was complaining, I was ignored, I bought a new game and have no problems for 2 years. So how I got banned? I can't be sure because nobody says(Why do they still have that "I was banned" point in the steam support if they even don't want to provide you an informations why you was banned???). But I think I was banned for using program called "cheat'o'matic"(go google it to see what it is before starting to blame me...) on my own server that was created on my own pc... pathetic... I could just disable VAC before starting the server but I couldn't imagine it can cause ban because I used that program only to be 100% sure that it will not work because it is off-line cheat and of course it didn't work...
VAC was created to help people to have more fun but then they imagined that they are gods and know everything and they are not. Still limited human beings. Or maybe they just don't want to spend money for bigger support team...
So can the use of harmless software be proven? Yes it can. Can the situation of playing in my private server on my own pc and not in public be proven? Yes it can. Do anybody cares? No! Point.

[crunchyfrog555]

Originally Posted by TIHb

Is it all? For some player that plays in a team reputation means more than a game itself. Who will believe you after "bans on record" massage?

Nicely taken out of context there.

That was offered as advice as the OP seemed to be under the impression that a VAC ban equated to something like total account disablement. I was clarifying, nothing more.

My god... another smart guy. Yes I agree, because I have already bought a game, paid money and nobody asked me to read the agreement before I paid! Will valve give me my money back if I disagree? NO! So what's a point?

Sorry but that's a fallacy. If you're buying a digitally distributed game, you have every chance to read the Agreement before you choose. With a boxed game, you CAN take it back as it won't be activated, should you disagree.

That is absolutely binding, and quite fair and reasonable. It's also no different to many other service agreements in other markets, not just gaming, or even entertainment.

I doubt virus can cause VAC ban but anyway... what it have in common? I like my free anti-virus and I love doing stupid things, but I paid for the game so why do I must bother?

Because it's part of YOUR obligation which you agree to. Again, if you don't agree to this, then Steam isn't for you.

Purchase cheats? OMG what are you talking about?! Go google you'll find tons of that crap for free.

Again, you're misinterpreting completely. The point the user was making was in regard to POSSIBLE sale of cheats, and whether such a thing would be legal; purely hypothetical.

And about me, I was banned, I was complaining, I was ignored, I bought a new game and have no problems for 2 years. So how I got banned? I can't be sure because nobody says(Why do they still have that "I was banned" point in the steam support if they even don't want to provide you an informations why you was banned???). But I think I was banned for using program called "cheat'o'matic"(go google it to see what it is before starting to blame me...) on my own server that was created on my own pc... pathetic... I could just disable VAC before starting the server but I couldn't imagine it can cause ban because I used that program only to be 100% sure that it will not work because it is off-line cheat and of course it didn't work...
VAC was created to help people to have more fun but then they imagined that they are gods and know everything and they are not. Still limited human beings. Or maybe they just don't want to spend money for bigger support team...
So can the use of harmless software be proven? Yes it can. Can the situation of playing in my private server on my own pc and not in public be proven? Yes it can. Do anybody cares? No! Point.

It's part of the agreement once more, and again no different from other service agreement where termination is an option through foul play or something similar. They are NOT obliged to give you details, and doing so could only serve to help the cheaters if they were told, obviously.

Do note they are not Gods. They do however, own the product so THEY state the rules you play by. Again, no different from other IP.

And I can assure that is absolutely and utterly binding. If you didn't agree to it, you shouldn't have accepted it. Simple as that.

I'm sorry if this all sounds harsh, but the overriding fact here is that what Valve are doing is perfectly acceptable, perfectly legal and binding, and NOT unusual in any way.