Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > Q - S > Stellar Impact

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-17-2012, 07:22 PM   #1
abortabortabort
 
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Reputation: 36
Posts: 565
Inevitable Consequence of a working autobalance

If autobalance perfectly balances the teams, they would each have a 50% chance to win. That means basing the balancing algorithm on wins to losses would make everyone have close to 50%-50% win to loss ratio. You'd have to rank people on some other metric, like kills to death. Even that has it faults, since once you start getting ahead of the curve, you'll get teammate that are less capable of killing which might make it hard to actually kill someone.

On the other hand, without an auto balance, people with high ranks would be people that are either good, people that stack, people that form premade teams, or people that know which team to join.

Alternatively, you could just totally randomize the teams. Over the long run people that are better at winning will have higher ranks than people who are worse.
abortabortabort is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 05:59 AM   #2
hurleybird
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Reputation: 0
Posts: 40
This guy gets it.
hurleybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 10:45 AM   #3
KaldariaQ
 
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
I think you are giving the people on TS a bit to much credit. We form groups in much the same way randoms join games. We go to lobby and say "Hey yoo wants to party!!" those who speak up become our team mates for that round.

This is a team game you cannot just totally randomize the teams because you think each team should have a 50% chance of winning regardless of player skill. Its a neat idea in theory, but as you have been pondering yourself its a pipe dream. The more people work in groups and broadcast the TS server the more apt the game is to get enough people using it to keep the community alive. You cant penalize those of us who want to play a higher level game for coordinating because the user base is to lazy to spend 2 minutes getting on the server.
KaldariaQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 11:43 AM   #4
MordredofFairy
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Reputation: 2
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaldariaQ View Post
I think you are giving the people on TS a bit to much credit. We form groups in much the same way randoms join games. We go to lobby and say "Hey yoo wants to party!!" those who speak up become our team mates for that round.

This is a team game you cannot just totally randomize the teams because you think each team should have a 50% chance of winning regardless of player skill. Its a neat idea in theory, but as you have been pondering yourself its a pipe dream. The more people work in groups and broadcast the TS server the more apt the game is to get enough people using it to keep the community alive. You cant penalize those of us who want to play a higher level game for coordinating because the user base is to lazy to spend 2 minutes getting on the server.
So go ahead and use the server. Why not make "TS games" and "no TS Games" then? Then you can play against people that WANT to use TS and "play a higher level game of coordination(about cat videos on youtube, right?)"
And those people that don't want to use TS can rest relatively assured if they lose it's their own fault. I don't like Teamspeak, i know many others, including e.g. people who don't speak english well enough for public games. Making that a "necessity" in that everybody who doesn't spend the "2 minutes to get on the server" deserves to lose is definitely not the way to get more people into the community. It's a way to keep a hardcore cadre of elitist players happy.
MordredofFairy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 04:10 PM   #5
KaldariaQ
 
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordredofFairy View Post
It's a way to keep a hardcore cadre of elitist players happy.
See this is the toxic attitude that is slowly killing the game. You want to segregate an already small population into "hardcore" and "casual". Online games are only as good as the community that supports them. My philosophy is that the more people we have playing higher level matches the better the game will get. Its only natural (as with ANY OTHER online game) that voice chat will become a natural part of it.

Im not even sure what you think your plan will accomplish. If you segregate the community what will happen is the people on TS will get even BETTER making the skill difference between the two groups increase making it even harder for newcommers to get involved in higher level game play.

This is a niche game atm and niches are kept alive the their hardcore fanbase. Not the casual players.
KaldariaQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 05:48 PM   #6
MordredofFairy
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Reputation: 2
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaldariaQ View Post
See this is the toxic attitude that is slowly killing the game. You want to segregate an already small population into "hardcore" and "casual". Online games are only as good as the community that supports them. My philosophy is that the more people we have playing higher level matches the better the game will get. Its only natural (as with ANY OTHER online game) that voice chat will become a natural part of it.

Im not even sure what you think your plan will accomplish. If you segregate the community what will happen is the people on TS will get even BETTER making the skill difference between the two groups increase making it even harder for newcommers to get involved in higher level game play.

This is a niche game atm and niches are kept alive the their hardcore fanbase. Not the casual players.
uhm, let me quote you from the other thread: "Why should I play the game without it? Just to "level" some perceived imbalance among people who want "a casual game"? No offence but thats really not my problem."

Now you are calling my opinion toxic, when all i suggest is that the "casual" players also get their fun. Thats also what the plan should "accomplish": Getting more people to play casually. That also results in a larger "elitist" user base because some people will tend to invest more time and effort into it, naturally.

What you seem to forget(or ignore) is that if you only have a small user base, and all this user-base does is play "higher level matches" you are automatically scaring away newcomers. Grasping simple concepts or map strats could go quite quickly. Grasping exactly how far overextending is deadly, proper upgrade routes etc. takes a little longer. And for a casual player it's simply not fun to spend 20 games(or 10+ hours) getting close to no kills, being shouted at and killed all the time, feeling he makes his team lose over and over...you make this elitist, you kill it.
I got well past that new player stage, happily leveled 2 MK5s, and a couple MK2-4s, and kept a positive balance throughout. I am not one of those new guys, but i started with many other new people on steam.
However, after losing 3 times in 5 matches by people corvette-ultiing to enemy spawn, calling in people with quantum beacon and destroying base like that(or playing mostly corvette-teams to begin with and doing the same thing), i simply didn't enjoy it any more. Sure i could have resorted to playing my high MK corvette and just fight fire with fire, but thats just as much "not fun" as it would be for a new guy to be endlessly farmed.

But if you "cut off" the influx of new players by claiming high level play of a hardcore niche group is what it's about and new guys(who always start out casual, if you are LUCKY), and at the same time some stuff(including real-life events or other games) will eventually diminish your "hardcore" player base, thats a one-way street to game death.
MordredofFairy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 06:12 PM   #7
KaldariaQ
 
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
I think your starting to mix two different topics. You touch on the corvette ult + QB trick to destroy a base and then link it to coordinated players ruining the game. While I can understand your reaction to that trick, (even other TS teams get angry when thats pulled some times) dont confuse people being "good" at the game with the fact that the game is horribly imbalanced some times.

Yes I will fully agree with you that the game needs a balance overhaul. Small ships strong early game, large ships strong late game, bases made of paper late game, etc.... Im sure we could both put a large list of annoying balance issues. These issues however dont really have anything do to with people playing on TS. Even if they were fixed people would still use voice chat and they would still probably beat players that didnt use it.

I will admit I get angry if I play a game with randoms because usually what happens, is 2-3 of them play horribly and it ruins the game for both sides. When we are playing in a group we give the TS info out to people and say, hey why dont you hop on. If they ignore us or refuse thats fine, but THEN if they start playing like a we will rage at them. If they ignore us but play competently (say even KD or near even, or lots of assists) we wont say anything negative. Lets look at a hypothetical real life example...

Timmy wants to play baseball and shows up to the local field. The boys there offer to teach Timmy the rules and he laughs and them saying "I got this guys". Timmy is given outfielder and when the ball is hit his way, the older boys start cheering for him. However Timmy has decided to play with the ants in the grass and the ball smacks him in the head. The batter gets a homerun and the boys on Timmys team are quite upset.

Is this not an understandable reaction?
KaldariaQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 01:50 PM   #8
crisaron
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Reputation: 0
Posts: 46
TIMMY!!!!
crisaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 05:26 PM   #9
abortabortabort
 
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Reputation: 36
Posts: 565
Upon further thought, I'm wrong.

Suppose you are overvalued as a pilot, which means your rating is higher than your value to your team. This means although the AB would try and make you win/lose 50% of the time, your actual chance to win is less than 50%, meaning your rating would go down on average.

If you are undervalued, or have gained skill above what your rating is, then your team would have a greater than 50% win chance, meaning you should go up in rating.

Now the only issue is suppose I play a mark V destroyer often. Then I decide I'd like to play something else, which is mark I. Also, suppose I am exactly as skilled with the Mark 1 as I am with my Mark V. The worse equipment combined with less skill points would mean I'm undervalued, by about 6% on both hull and weapons stats and only having 6 skill points instead of 10.

In the end, I don't care about rating, and I sometimes play a leveling ship to get my rating down. I've also noticed that people with > 1000 rating are quite a bit better than those with < 1000. For example, the difference between someone with 1040 rating vs 1120 rating isn't as much as 960 rating vs 1040. I hope with time this corrects itself.
abortabortabort is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > Q - S > Stellar Impact


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site Content Copyright Valve Corporation 1998-2014, All Rights Reserved.